Scarfo " banished " to Atlantic City

This has been a rumor for years that Bruno forced Nick out of Philly to A.C.

Now for years I been posting that he was not but never gave the reason .
I have recently spent some time with my uncle and got him to fill in some of what was what and this is something that is not easy no matter how unimportant or important " he just does not talk about stuff.

But I got answers" to a few things that I was to young for, back in late 60's Nick was sent down for the gambling for the Philly family that at the time was controlled by guys that go back to Nucky Johnson .

But it was not just that he came down to help" Skinny " D'Amato (who some say was made)at the 500 club in A.C. It was a big club that started to fail and he was in debt hundreds of thousands $ to the Philly skippers and Bruno .

Now it worked out because the 500 club did well until it burned to the ground " who knows who got the Insurance but that's a different post .

The guy Nick got the gambling from that was Nucky 's guy back in the day was Stumpy Orman ! and his head mussel or right hand was( Ricci )William Rich the rich family did pretty good for them self here in the Legitimate world also .

But Nick took over the gambling operations from them and they were protected and kicking up to Bruno and Vito Genovese for years !!!! Possibly all the way back to Lucky !!

Anyway Stumpy was no push over he controlled Frank Farley the senator here. Now I did get more names that worked for Nick back then but the guys were not made the ones that everyone knows were around but some of these guys were messing around and it was just gambling so I am not posting them some are still around and there families are also and they had nothing to do what happened in the 80's and so on.

This whole banished thing has been bullshit from the start and Nick went to jail in the middle of some of this where he met Manna and came out and still had A.C. and more as we all know the rest is history!

Until casinos legalization in 1977 Atlantic City was a city in decline,the hotel and the nightclubs was old and in ruin,maybe Bruno don't banished Scarfo to AC but be transfered by philly to AC doesn't sound like a promotion.

Thanks for that Serp! Good info as always

That's what people say ! But the fact is that there was more going on before casino gambling as far as individual bars and restaurants and nightclubs social clubs etc. in the city , there were hundreds of them after casino gambling it was nothing like it was before no illegal bars and restaurants back room card games etc because the casino control Commission (CCC) was very hands on even down to who delivered towels !!!

So actually there was more going on in that world before casino gambling then after . Then after it came what was there was obviously more profitable but very far in between.

I was here for every minute of it and trust me casino gambling is not what it's all wrapped up to be.

Scarfo was going to raise his family here no matter , I am sure Nick jockeyed for the spot Atlantic City before casino gambling was a great place to raise a family and have a business don't believe what you hear and if any of what they say is true they are talking about big" business and big business is not good for the mob just look at Vegas !!!!

I'll bet in one block on Georgia ave. Between Artic ave. And Atlantic there was 15 businesses and 1000 people up and down the ally's !!!

Now today there is three businesses and maybe 150 people living in the same footprint.

Nothing what you read has any real affect what was going on here then !


Back then you could not fit on the boardwalk it was shoulder to shoulder and every beach was packed and this goes with every bar and restaurant up and down the streets .

Now you can land a airplane on the boardwalk on a Wednesday and will not hit a human.

When they say it was in decline yes compared to the 20s 30's 40's etc. when there was no air-conditioning and everybody from a 500 mile radius came to the city for the summer for cool air . Totally totally different situation but they still say it was declining, of course it was because every human with a couple dollars could buy an air conditioner and did not have to come to the ocean .

Don't believe everything you hear !! It's 100 times worse now " then it was in 1975 trust me let alone in the 60's when Nick came .

The were some huge Westside skippers here in the 60's and many more were here also don't believe what the papers say they were talking about when A.C. Was the only place to go on the east coast for hundreds of miles with anything to do .

The city's slogan was Americas playground and back in the day there was only one adult and for youth playground and it was" here" unless you went out of the country like Cuba or Monte Carlo etc. or waited till Las Vegas got up and going .

Now you have a thousand places just on the east coast of America to go so it's never going to be like it was , it's just impossible to re-create the circumstance of what happened.

Thanks for the info Serp

There are two subjects that I'm interested in regarding the mob, the Gallo brothers and the Columbo wars, and AC and its place in OC. The fact is I believe based on research and talking to older people who were around for the 500 Club and Skinny D'Amato's time that AC was bigger than its given credit for in it's place in OC history. I also think that what Serp says is probably more accurate than not based on my personal discussions with guys that would know. (I'm making it clear I don't know any OC guys, I do know plenty of guys who knew/know them and grew up with and around them) Anyway, good post Serp. I enjoy reading your first hand knowledge of AC since I have interest in it. Thanks.

I forgot to add, I don't think it was banishment, far form it. I don't doubt that Scarfo wanted to go to AC and take over and control it. Just my two cents, the banishment sounds more romantic when the idea he went willingly doesn't add anything to his reputation that he was out of control with anger issues and had to be banished. A better story.

Phil Leonetti said when Bruno and Scarfo were in prison together, that Bruno got out first. Bruno gave Scarfo some "paper clips." It was meant as an insult like Scarfo wasn't anything to Bruno. Leonetti said it bugged Scarfo.

That doesn't sound like a relationship where Bruno would send Scarfo to anywhere good. I'm going with the DEMOTION story on Scarfo to AC.

We all herd that story a hundred times but there is no one or any written proof or wire tap etc. to have merit .

Not just that what we do know that Bruno was here on Georgia ave often to see Nick and it's not just from here say it's in FBI reports and forms from snitches .

Now it was pretty big news for Bruno to roll down Georgia ave in the summer because Nick was not big yet and not in the administration " we all knew him since we were kids so that was a everyday thing but when the Boss rolled down the street well people talked about it even the next day !!!

Not just that Bruno had a house not far from Nick and would be in it often in spring summer and fall , if you look into it you will find out that the two of them became close as Testa and Bruno grew apart and that started in the early 70's

There is much more proff that they were on good terms then any paper clip story .

It's came from George Anastasia whom has a deep dislike for Scarfo and has sine a boy , he spent summers here a few blocks away and was well let's say the geek type and you had Chucky Merlino and Yogi and Nick and many other connected guys to deal with here as a kid and we all know how that goes .

There is no secret about his dislike to Nick and I been in conversation with Chris when his father passed and I got the story first hand.

AC is no Chicago ,New York , Philly or Boston it's at points only 4 blocks wide a very small town but if you are comparing size to OC back in the day per square mile it would of been like NY !!!

The 500 club was bad ass everyone that was someone came there and it had a few different rooms (bars) so you could go in for a drink and sit with the neighborhood guys and be sitting with Dean Martin just that laid back but yet very cool spot and it was right in Ducktown .

Skinny was a great guy and his family hung around Ducktown his daughter married a Ducktown guy Bobby .

But yeah for square mile it was hands down a hot bed for everything good and everything bad " but a whole lot of fun !!!

I agree with the post above,If Serpiente says it I consider it the Gospel on all Philly,AC matters.And Leonetti stated in book that while Bruno and Scarfo were in Yardville Prison they became closer and it actually improved their relationship.Leonetti would take Bruno's wife to visits and Bruno trusted Leonetti with messages to his soldiers.Bruno respected Scarfo

When did Phil say this? I just finished his book again and dont recall that.

Only place I heard that was the documentary series thats about 50 percent facts

I've heard the banished thing over the years, but the first time I heard the paper clip story was only in the last few years. I'm calling bullshit on that story. It wasn't crow or leonetti who said it either. I think it was Anastasia.

You guys are right" it was a choice for Nick and after Nicks mother decided to invest into a large apartment building her brothers who are the Piccolo brothers most likely mentioned it to Bruno before Nick even asked to go to AC to take over the rackets that were held by jewish an Irish for forty some years or better.

And yes Anastasia grew up around these guys here on Bellevue ave just a few short blocks from Ducktown.

I am sure that Anastasia was not in with the in crowd and has had a deep dislike for wise guys since his first go around on the boardwalk or South Philly .

Didn't Skinny suggest to dean Martin that he and Jerry Lewis pair up for the first time at the 500 Club? A bit off subject but that's interesting none the less. 500 Club was by all accounts a great place prior to the Casino's opening up.

The "in crowd". Was that what all the cool Italian-American jocks aspired to be? A criminal?

It almost seems like you are suggesting that Anastasia doesn't like these guys cos he couldn't be one of them.

I don't get that impression from his books.

Not to suggest that he's an apologist.

I don't know if he wanted to be like or excepted by the guys that were connected or if he was a jock or the smart kid , but he is infatuated with them " spent his life involved and writing and reporting,as far as I know he has not ever crossed the line.

But then again you don't get all that info with out crossing paths with guys from both sides of the street .

I always know ur posts r genuine Serp, but why then (according 2 different accounts) were people saying Nick Sr. was squeezing every nickel & dabbling w/adult book shops & bartending?

He was the partner in those businesses ,not a employee "

He was hands on in the early days in his bust out bars ( if you are talking about the My Way Lounge)and you need legitimate income but we all know he was not a millionaire back then , not many Philly family members were and the ones that were Bruno kept close.

Yeah- It was "susistence level" under Bruno. There were only a handful of people making real money with Bruno, which was part of the discontent.

PHL MOB Good to hear from you , Bruno would let associates make a killing on things like drugs and other things that Americans frowned upon , but his made guys he wanted them to do it on regular rackets so all his judges politicians congressman etc. would protect him and his guys when he needed.

It was a good system as long as you were one of the guys that were doing well but that was far and in between the average Street guy .

But Bruno was able to get him made guys off regular indictments back then , he did have very good connections .

Serp
After Scarfo stabbed an innocent guy at the diner, wasnt that when Bruno wanted him to leave Philly?
What is the story behind that?

Have never herd that Bruno wanted him to leave from anyone but the media ! Never from a associate a made guy or there families .

I have herd that Rugetta hated Nick for sleeping with his daughter then saying some not so nice things , matter fact I herd Joe wanted him death and Joe had Bruno ear till Bruno got to spend time in the joint with Nick and they were tight as mobsters get .

You have to remember Nick was the youngest made guy in the family for a long time , I am sure they all talked about him .

I am sure he was no push over back then to be one of the only young guys made in the family for long time.

Most of the stuff you hear from the media is repeated thousands of time for dramatics !!!

Not don't get me wrong Nick was stuck in the 30's and a killer at 130lb he was living a dream , not what he should of been doing , but he chose his life and stayed true to it to the end with out a word.

great posts. serp, you are the best, nothing phoney about your posts, thanks for all the info.

Serp, see Phil waited until the eleventh hour to see if he would get convicted before turning

Let's say he beat those charges, and he was the only one that made it out

Would Phil being on the streets be able to keep the young Turks Merlino & Mike Chang at bay?

Did Phil still have a crew whereas I know most of Scarfo's guys went down and they only had nick jr and cousin Tony who was old by then

Thanks Moe

Tony who knows , but one thing would of been different Phil was made and a underboss Jr. was just doing his dad a favor.

Phil being a UB he would of had the Chin and Westside behind him and that would of brought out the soldiers that were left.

Jr was just a kid in there eyes and Phil cut Nicks legs out when he flipped so Westside just let it unfold.

Phil put away some Westside guys and that ended it for Nick , Phil really did the damage that Skinny got away with.

Ahh interesting if u put it in that perspective! BUT Serp correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Bobby Manna Scarfo's main ally within the Genovese due to their relationship

Manna at that point was inside, so Phil wouldn't have had the support he required from them IF Joey made a move

But u are right, hard to see how a young punk at the time can move on Phil considering he was UB and a killer himself

Nick jr was just a sitting duck. And cousin Tony was too old to deal with these young guys

Thought u were saying if Phil was on the street . But still if nobody was ratting out Manna and the Chin then the Westside would have protected Nick and him as godfather, but Phil cut his legs out !!!! They watched it unfold as Phil was going to testify on Manna and Chin .

Who would Phil have had? All the muscle guys were dead, rats or in prison.

Would have been him, Jr and Tony Buck.

Merlino had the muscle and I really doubt he was stepping aside for anyone at that point in time

None of that matters because the Westside and the other families would not of let a family fold to non made members !!!! It's only because the Chin let it lay because he knew that Phil had him and Manna . Even back then the five families would not of let outsiders take a family because there was a sitting godfather.

For all the bullshit I like how Merlino and his young punks stepped up and took control of the outfit. I know a lot of people don't like him, but he sure had balls. Fear of Scarfo was still pretty much alive out in the streets.. I know he was in the can but still a lot of people would have been scared to touch Nicky Jr, cause his pop still had friends... but they didn't give a fuck.
I know Phil Leonetti considered Joey a punk and still does, but frankly I think he's maybe a little jealous.. Joey did what Phil never had the balls to do, step up and take control of the outfit. Phil always contemplated whacking his uncle but he never did.

Hey serp!

If Phil whacked his uncle he ultimately knew that the Commission would kill him right away. He saw it first hand with Bruno. So he might have said he wanted to at times, but Phil never would have done it he's smarter than that.

With regards to Joey and Mike, they were still scared of Scarfo and you guys are right, the streets still feared Scarfo. I remember one of Joey's guys was quoted in an article back in the mid-90s when Scarfo and Chucky and the rest were retried and later acquitted of the Frankie Flowers murder in like 1997. He said Joey was nervous about being in the same courtroom as Scarfo and was still legitimately scared of/respected him. The difference was, Nick Jr was the conduit and Joey wasn't scared of nor did he respect Nick Jr. Joey and Mike had the muscle and that was left, which ultimately was what became the "Young Turk" crew. Nick Jr was scared of them and Joey and Mike knew it. Jr was actually recorded talking to Scarfo Sr and Leonetti in prison about how Joey and Mike were moving in on south philly and starting to push people around. You always hear about the Scarfo guys in the 80s and all the shooting, but these young guys were doing beatings and helping with hits, etc, during that same time as well so it's not like they didn't have a reputation or know what they were doing...

But they did though...and Joey was made and was the real power behind the push

The Genovese had their own problems and would not interfere and Skinny knew it. Or if he knew it he didnt give a fuck. They tried to call him to NY and he said no thanks, come to Philly if you want to meet lol

Like him or not he has balls of steel!

Phil can say anything he wants now, to make himself look better because he is a rat. He wasn't doing shit to his uncle.

He can consider Joey a punk all he wants, but Joey did his time and Phil ratted, had plastic surgery, his face blurred and is in WPP

Who is the real punk? lol

Blackjack you are right about what you are saying but just so you know Phil took the money from the Feds for plastic surgery but what he got was a facelift !!!

He looks the same with some gray !!

Rhiht on PHL MOB.They were the guys just under Scarfo guys the younger brothers and nephews and cousins etc. And Skinny was not made in the beginning!!! Trust me if Phil don't flip the five families get behind Scarfo !!!!! Not even a question !!!


Not saying it would have worked, but they could not take that chance . If they let non made members make a move on one of the biggest city's on the east coast and do nothing then The Albanians could come and take a NY family, they just would not let it happen.

But when you have two skippers and a underboss and a soldier that knows almost everything testifying they are NOT going to help !

Hence Nick having his legs cut out from under him .

The NY families even lost some big north jersey rackets when they turned there back on Nick some major cash !!!

By the mid to late 80's . Everyone knew what Scarfo was about. If Phil didnt flip. He was still done. The powers to be in South Philly wasnt going let him become boss. He was basically an outsider. He was nt hanging on the corner in south philly, like the rest of them.

Didnt matter what NY said. What were the genovese going to do, send a hit team to passyunk ave?

I get all that and not saying the outcome would be different.

I am saying the LCN would not ever let unmade members take a family , I am saying the reason was Phil flipped!!!

Who knows who the Westside would of put in as acting boss , but they would not of just let millions of dollars go if they were not sending a message to Nick for his rats !!!!

This all had to do with Phil flipping and a outsider (Stanfa) being put in as boss there were guys that could of been put up .

It was a clear message from the Westside

And all this just proves what a mess there life is and was , they can not control anything any longer.

I just think it didnt really matter what NY had to say.

Alot posters on here say Merlino was a punk and didnt follow the rules. Too hell with the rules. He had to survive.

[quote=flamingokid123]I just think it didnt really matter what NY had to say.

Alot posters on here say Merlino was a punk and didnt follow the rules. Too hell with the rules. He had to survive.

[/quot

I don't know about surviving but they wanted there town and they seen the families were in a bad spot and they had a shot at doing what they did and living to talk about it.

You know Skinny should of been dead five times easy !!! If he would of been hit the first time NY would of no doubt controlled Philly , but that's not what happened .

I am surprised the Chin being so pissed at Phil and Nick for Phil ratting that they did not put Chucky in as boss .

If not for Yogi it may have happened !!!!


Crazy times and a mess of American organized crime .

Oh you have seen him? Thought he moved to California or somewhere west?

Maybe he got his balls back after Scarfo kicked the bucket and went back to AC?

He was here for weeks after Nick passed and has been before , but now he is comfortable and was in one of our old joints with his wife and a friend .

Great thread,Serp.Pretty damn cool you have seen Leonetti around.Yeah,he calls Merlino a punk and Merlino is a killer with no fear at all of prison or dying or whatever.But I believe Leonetti is just as much a killer and has no fear of Merlino and truly believes him a punk.To be walking around AC like that he has to be packing.

By 1991, Gigante was indicted, Gravno flipped, Amuso and Casso were busy killing everyone in their own family, the Colombos were at war and the Bonannos weren't even on the commission and were just starting to rebuild under Massino.

I think Merlino predicted that the five families weren't in a position to intervene. The Geoveses were more concerned with Leonetti and Gravano than Merlino.

Thank you Ted you were able to say in thirty" words that took me ten posts and 3000 word .... right on !

He aint packing shit but a rat flag.

He knows the Heat is too hot on Merlino, and Joey gains zero from killing the rat anyway. He is enjoying his money in Florida and Leonetti never testified against him.

Leonetti is just jealous that Joey is stand up and running the mob and he is a rat missing the action.

Leonetti was wrong about many things in his book.

Claims that everyone better move out of the way for Phil.

How true has that become?

Leonetti has more kills under his belt than you and I combined Blackjack.Now,I understand your disdain for the guy.He is a rat and I agree it eats at him deep.All these guys that got out from the Scarfo era did their time and Leonetti didn't.Merlino did his time.And I think Merlino is the last of a dying breed.But rat or not that Leonetti is a killer and I promise he is ready to draw

National tv reporter John Miller, the one who used to follow John Gotti around, interviewed Phil when his book came out. John Miller said Phil Leonetti is unreconizable. Doesnt look nothing like he used too.

Im assuming that Chris & Phil see each other from time 2 time & u also enjoy their company my friend?

Well of course, im no murderer

But Joey has been involved in a war and plenty of violence

I guarantee he is jealous and misses the action and that is part of the reason he hates Joey so much

Don't believe a word you hear I am sure in order to get the interview they had something worked out , trust me he looks the same but 30 plus older , then again that reporter did not see him five days a week his entire life but he looks the same.

Hoodlum you would be surprised at what goes on with these people knowing what Phil did , but they are not friends because Chris had the balls to walk away when it was going on not when he was facing life .

I guess when he saw the 26 n georgia ave.property, He had to be in shock?

Flamingo he has been around here every summer after he came here for his mother .

I am pretty sure he has a place not far out of the city and has for years , but yeah shocking driving through the old neighborhoods holmes that were taken care of meticulously by the Italian and Irish are in ruin !!!

There was always a section of the city where the undesirables chose to owen or rent but for the most part the city was great !!!!

I have not seen a kid throw a football or have a stick ball game since 1990 !!!! It crazy how fast the caucasians ran for suburbia and how much the area in a 25 mile radius exploded with houses being built and did not stop till the recession in 2005-2007 .

" I have not seen a kid throw a football or play a game of stick ball since 1990"....Well said Serp, now all the kids walk around like zombies looking @ their phones or sit home playing video games gettin' fat,,I just was saying 2 my wife that kids dont even ride bikes anymore...some young girl a few weeks ago was on the news cause she was "facechatting" whatever the hell that is & got hit by a car,wasn't watching where she was walking..I miss our days sorely..u cant even call your bank or ANYTHING service & talk 2 a human fuckin' being.

Yes but.. they r blood right?..cousins,they should bury that shit & mend their ways.

This is crazy until this internet I did not think about the old days “ well the life of the OC guys and then I found this site and I was racking my brain being almost 70 I could not remember little things and to this day it drives me crazy that I did not listen or I did not pay more attention or even took that ride all those nights I said no I will catch you guys latter .

But this internet I just watched you tube and the documentaries are endless and the stories ! Now I know why people say all this crazy shit about 10 paperclips and telling to the Rugnetta to his face that his daughter was ugly ! Get the fuck out of here ! Not happening! Who wrote all that crazy shit !

Great reel, I see I missed when it started long ago..great stuff serp...and yeah, from outside looking in, phil sounds like sour grapes wth joey, definetly misses the power...regarding hypotheticals, I don’t think the young kids make the moves on phil if in street, and I think phil puts them with him during that time frame..money train had to keep rolling.