Patriarca to Angiulo power comparison

Obviously Patriarca Sr and Jr were the bosses and Angiulo was Underboss to both of them but were there times the Angiulo's and Patriarca's had to reach a middle ground or Patriarca had to reach a settlement with Angiulo?

Patriarca was powerful. I can't imagine there were many instances were he had to negotiate with his guys.

When ray sr went to prison around 1969 he and jerry had some type of falling out over all the money jerry was making in boston and the suburbs of it. He was making more money they probaly the whole family combined. This is in ray sr. File. He kept him on as underboss but never made him acting boss even in 1980 when ray was sick and jerry was at his height there a wire tap of jerry and his brothers kinda talking shit that ray made nick bianco the final say in boston even over jerry. Sounded like it hurt his pride. After reading the files on jerry all the scams and gambling he had going on from the 50tys to the 80tys shit till he died with his mansion in nahant whitey bulger and steve couldnt shine his shoes. Whitey was just a shake down guy who made millions doing it but really has nothing to show from it but being labeld a rat informant even if he swears he aint.

Didn't Angiulo pay Patriarca a whole lot of money to get his button, because he was getting extorted all the time in Boston?

That's the rumor, or pretty much fact. Jerry and his clan of brothers were already running money making scams everywhere and made guys kept showing up to take their slice. So, he gave the old man a sack of cash and his troubles were over.

Many say this was Ray's plan all along, create enough headaches for Jerry that he sought out help.

Nicolo Angiulo was made before Jerry, and I believe he was the only one of the three who did not pay for his button. Frank was the last one made and Jerry proposed after he gave Rey a great Christmas present.

Danny Angiulo was also made and definitely didn't pay for it

Vacari you are thinking about Danny Angiulo like Bones just mentioned. Danny was a legit killer and never seemed to truly get along with Jerry.

There was no agreement, Angiulo took over the Boston numbers from Joe Lombardo when he supposedly fled to Italy. The screws were turned on Angiulo oddly enough by Larry Zannino and that's when Angiulo went to The Hill and made his deal with Patriarca. In the end, Zannino ended up under Angiulo even though Zannino and Russo were probably more feared in Boston than Angiulo was.

There is no telling how much money the Angiulo family still had even after they were caught and had to forfeit, being "the guy" over a city the size of Boston?? That's big boy dollars for sure. Jerry was a tightwad for sure so no telling how much he was caught with.

I'd recommend you read The Underboss by Gerard O'Neill and Dick Lehr. It follows Jerry Angiulo and then the wiretaps on Angiulo's office as well as Zannino's office and card games. Just make sure to skip the 2 or 3 chapters on the cops and legal team, that was entirely boring and had no info on Boston. I would love to see the transcripts to both wiretaps honestly.

And I'm not sure Angiulo was ever underboss to Junior Patriarca, as Angiulo was in prison by the time Junior became boss.

I think it was Junior as boss, Billy Grasso from Connecticut under and Zannino was consig. Once Boston went rogue and killed Grasso, then it went to Nicky Bianco as under and J.R. Russo as consig I'm almost certain. After that is when Boston once again had Junior begging for his life and I think Bianco took over until he went to prison then all hell broke loose with Cadillac Frank and others vying for the top position.

Yep Dixie rite on almost all. Think there was a old guy in providence that was ray jrs first underboss and he died very shortly after forgot name. Also tye gov took all jerry shit but he over turned it he died in his mansion or was dying there seen a pic its nice on the ocean wit a sweet pool looking into boston. And they took a few buildings like were there clubhouse or doghouse was and were they made guys and the building where franks aparment across the street. He died in the apartmemt last yr to. They got all the property back. Jerry had alot of legit business interests. Those buildings in the northend alone if still in the family they might be are worth millions same almost as owning brownstones in Manhattan.

Nick bianco was in jail on tax evasion around when ray sr died i thinm he would have been first choice as boss. Read a story somewhere joe russo new he had to kill bianco to take over the family but barely non of the boston guys even new what bianco looked like.

Yes Jerry Angiulo promised 100'000 a month for get made,this in the early 50s. I read the black mass book: Angiulo brothers run all the family racket in Boston and Massachusetts while Patriarca sr gave order from Providence.
Jerry was the brain while the other brothers made the dirty work.
Bulger and Martorano help the fbi to bug the Angiulo office in prince street and jerry and the other was arrested in settember 1983 and this opened a power voi in the criminal world that was filled by the winter hill gang.

Furio, you're thinking of Flemmi, not Martorano.

Sorry my bad. Anyway apart this all I written is correct.

There another old file about the brother nick going to nyc in 1975 were the consigliars from all the familys had a meeting never heard of this before but it probaly happend alot back then. There a conversation between jerry and ray in his office weekly. They talk about there inductions theres no mention of money. They talk about how ray jnducted 6 guys in worcester then immediately transfers them to the genovese family. Last bit in the files it said jerry and peter limone were indicted in the same ceromony which makes me think limone wasnt from the nlrth end was some how lombardos guy. But theres no question jerry new ray was the boss with all the backing of the nyc bosses. They say jerry didnt have control of surburbs outside of boston cause guys just didnt like him so they reported strait to ray sr. The whole town or city of revere.

If I'm not mistaken, Limone even drove for Jerry Angiulo at one point before he went away.

Pmac I agree on Bianco, they would have had to kill him if Boston wanted to take over. He had too much clout on The Hill and in NYC at that point.

I thought Donato was a cousin. That was my bad. Danny was active for Boston during WW2 while Jerry was in the military, he is alleged to have participated in the Fat John murder. Nick was made while Buccola was still boss, the other brothers were made when Patriarca became boss, and I am sure Nick was on record with the Modica/Terruso crew before he was made.

Yes Donato was the next to last son, 3 or 4 years younger than Jerry. There was even talk on one of the wires where Jerry said something like "there is only one killer in here" when fussing with Danny.

I forgot about that dixie. Underboss great book. Donato wouldnt ever take jerrys shit and let him no and jerry would say ya we no you the killer or someshit. The feds had to go hard to make his case cause he wouldnt go to jerrys office. Crazy they all lived out there bids and died free. Theres a few pics of donato at whitey bulgers garage were there laughing and shooting the shit.

Yea I need to look it up if I can find it and find the true quote as I think it was Jerry, Danny and either Nick or Frank in there when it was said. It showed how shrewd Jerry was and how he thought none of his brothers were even on his level.

Omg you people have no ideas what you are talking about what is wrong with you guys to just write things that are not true just so you know when the old man died Gerry was not the under boss for the son the wild guy was if any of you know who he was and Danny was the real deal out of all the brothers but everyone one of them were real men

New England, I don't think anyone was saying that Gerry was Ray Jr's underboss. Most people know Gerry was taken down after the 1983 indictment. As for Ray Jr's underboss it sounds like you're talking about Will Grasso, who most people are on this board know about. I appreciate your posts but it would be great if you could offer more information to go with them.

Yaeh jerry was held as a danger to the public from tue second he was arrested. Sept 1983. He said he'll be back before his pork chops were cold but that was according to 1 of the disgraced fbi guys from back then. He campaigned from the charles street jail or the Nassau. When ray sr died summer 84. Larry z. Bione who must have been a capo backed ray jr. His brother donato was free on bail wonder why he didnt care. I would guess all the northshore guys also backed ray jr. Jerry was looking at life and multiple murders. I guess nick bianco must have just started his tax evasion bid cause he was no where around till he popd back up around 88.

Think ray jr was the last boss still alive sanctiond by the 5 familes commssion.

Wonder which one of the nyc bosses wanted ray jr in a boss probaly chin. They had that guy morris levy who owned all the records store strawberries all over new england in the 80tys that was a big genovese racket. They were everywhere in new england.

I never knew that....they were big in the day

According to Al D'Arco, Jimmy Ida told him that Chin picked the admin for the New England family.

I remember reading that Gotti weighed in on the conflict involving Ray Jr and the Boston guys as well. Gravano testified about it.

Also, something interesting I found while looking for that Gravano testimony is an article about how James Martorano was the Patriarca's link to the Genovese and he was in talks about killing Sammy's family.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/19/nyregion/new-indictment-cites-talk-of-killing-gravano-family.html

Nice find RollinBones.

Here's Gravano's FBI debriefing about Gotti and the Patriarca family
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/sammy-bull-gravano-fbi-debriefings?page=58

I think Larry Zaninno was a captain before Jerry went away. I have read where some think Junior was a front for Nicky Bianco as well.

Omg you people are sick Jr was not a front for Nicky if you really new how things work there was once when the life mattered there would be a vote and note everybody who was made could vote but when the old man died everyone voted from top to bottom the New York family did not have say who would be boss and they did not pick who would be what in the Patriarca family I will say no more

One more thing the rat martorano was not a link for Jr ever that is not true at all

Yeah Zannino was a captain when Jerry got locked up. Zannino was a very interesting guy without too much public info on him. I can't remember if it was Kevin Weeks or Red Shea's book but they said Whitey would often say he didn't respect most of the North End guys but one guy he definitely respected was Zannino.

Anyone ever see if they published all the wire taps from the Prince Street bug or has anyone made an FOIA request on it?

I'm talking about James Martorano, not Johnny. And I didn't mean a link for Patriarca Jr personally but rather the entire family so I apologize if that wasn't clear.

As always, NE, you're welcome to set the record straight..

Well first off James was not even a thought in the life till that rat Frankie came into play. Alll I can say is that some families go way back being close. Look at that crew Frankie bobby and mark all rats mark is the only one that came from good stock but he went bad also. Darren is the only good one out of that crew

N.E. I disagree with you on your last point, darren is good..and steven is too, unless you can tell me otherwise...the others are obvious bad..few others with them dont pass the smell test either, r.g. being one, who all seem to accept...far as jimmy..or johnny..or whoever in that crew of vermin go..any one that even talks to them should be looked upon in strange way..including recently departed who are revered...said my peace on that...

Not that I've seen. I would love to read them too. As for Zannino, it seemed any gangster respected him. They say he was a Patriarca favorite and he was pretty hardcore.

Of course Newengland can set us straight but all he does is bitch.

Wow dixie that is funny what you wrote but i do not bitch i just do not understand why things are written that are not true tat is all.I am sorry if you feel that i bitch. Larry was very well like and respected from everyone. He was a mans man and yes he was hardcore but he listened not like these guys today that do not have one once of balls and they will rob their so called friends and try go with their daughters and wife's.

Wonder why the feds didnt indict jr russo in the early 80tys after they had larry b on a wire saying how nice he was with a carbine and how he took care of the rat in san fran just seems like it would have been a feather in the cap. I think he was indicted for it in 1990. That guy scott wrote a cool article on a old fbi file saying jr russo and jerry a ran tye induction ceromony in 1977 when ray jr and like 8 other providence were made. Funny today i go to rhode island alot the state is like half italian mixd with Portugal. The feds said it down to like 10 amade guys. Im taking a wild guess probaly at its peak it was 20 guys there and 20 around boston. Also funny buddy cianci was a huge crook went to jail and hes still highly regarded as making providence a great city. Guess he did speaking engagements after prison.

You are bitching. Either contribute like everyone else or just continue to bitch. This is why this is a forum, for us to talk and learn instead of someone pointing out how everyone is wrong without adding anything in return.

new england..no comment on steven?

Biggie which Steven are you talking about i am
thinking about Rossetti if so he is a man. You could have been on one side or the other back then but when a man is man you must respect that always. As far as JR as we all know he is dead but maybe he was not the shooter in San Fran

N.e., yes sorry , earlier u said darren was the only guy good out od that crew..and i know steven is good, but i thought you knew something i didnt..an oversight on your part with the darren is the only good guy, cuz obviously steven is too..and i agree..it was 2 sides, call a spade a spade though..im more friendly woth anthony c, mike r bobby c etc, but i respect darren and steven no doubt..not a lot of respect for jimmy and johnny tho...IMO johnny uses the bulger crutch to his advantage..connolly was fine all those years when johnny was hiding in plain sight...not so fine after..and yes
..strong possibility J.R. wasnt shooter

Biggie the guys that you are friends with know me well and that is all I can say but they are very good friends with me I do not want to say there names and I can not tell you who i am