Why the Chicago Outfit lost so much made men ?

In the document from Mary Ferrell Foundation that I posted there a list of Chicago Outfit members in the late 1960s and are almost 150,maybe are listed as soldiers also the associate but why the Outfit had today only 30 made men ?

are you sure they have only 30 ?!?! not at least 100 made guys ?

I would say they have around 35-40 made guys . The thing people fail to realise is the Chicago outfit was never that big to begin with , they have never had over 100 guys who are actually made , the reason they were so powerful is because they had a monopoly over the city and they were not competing with any other mob family , unlike New York

but they are competing with tons of gangs

Frank Calabrese Jr said in a few interviews that the Chicago Outfit did not allow it's members to recruit their sons and younger relatives into their organization. With that being said, obviously that rule was broken, as his Father forced him into the life (I believe James Marcello's Father was also involved in the Outfit). But it seems that the Outfit as a whole followed the rule strictly. That's going to shrink your recruitment pool big time, as the N.Y family members often brought sons into the life.

As another poster said, the Outfit was never as big membership wise as the other N.Y families (or maybe they equaled in size to the smaller ones at least). But from what I understand, they had a lot of associates, and they gave their associates more power and leeway as opposed to N.Y. The Outfit has always had a lot of powerful Non-Italian associates, because the Outfit was never structured quite like the other American Mafia families.

As per the latest estimates, the Outfit has 25-30 active made members. Like others have said, they don't - and never have - made as many members as the other families.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=911306#Post911306

Give a look to the outfit members chart. I counted almost 150 made men ! Maybe most of them are associates but why the FBI would list associates as made men ?

They may have had that many at some point. Perhaps it was bad intel on the part of the informants. I've definitely seen other records with inaccurate listings of made members.

Not competing so much as working occasionally and The Outfit didn't a monopoly overall.

Some stated that the Outfit had 150 members in the 1970s. Then the feds listed them at 50 in the early 1990s. Either those earlier numbers are inaccurate or they stopped making guys then and a lot of them died within that period.

I find it difficult to believe that the Outfit had only 60-75 made members at their peak when they had a city and recruitment pool almost as big as New York. Plus they had control over the American West that included other midsized families such as LA and Milwaukee. Then again, 75 or so members at their peak correspond with a steady decline of the numbers from the 1990s up until now.

Yes, they had a war over policy and numbers in the early fifties but after that, they more or less left the African American gangs to their own devices.

The earlier numbers were probably inflated due to bad intel. Also, they seemed to keep their making "ceremonies" localized for lack of a better term. Guys from other crews didn't have a lot of knowledge about who was made and who wasn't in other crews because they operated so independently. The collaboration that did happen occurred at high levels where most everyone was made.

Their sophistication is very intruiging. Even though they were technically Cosa Nostra they seem to have been so very different than the New York families. The Outfit was much more a syndicate.

How much did their Camorra roots play a role in their formation and organizational set-up?

They had no choice but to leave them be as each group have their own leadership.

Maybe too much. According to the information that we have,the first Sicilian "chief executive" was Accardo which occurred during the mid 1940's but allegedly when he messed up somewhere around the early 50's, the new boss again became one non-Sicilian which was Louis Campagna, who in turn died shortly after that.

Does it really matters how many madrguys they have? Powerful associates can play the same role as mademan in business i think, so when outfit had more associates,whats the difference?

So 4 of the five families have at least 1000 associates, so if that count the lcn are pretty powerful, no ??

Today only three of them are powerful i think, Colombos and Bonannos are not strong anymore.

In a previous thread we talked about this, meaning in the old days a high level associate of the Outfit can be considered almost as the same level as made soldiers in other families. You have many examples where non-Italian representatives for the Outfit attended meetings with high level made guys from the NY families for example. I remember one convo between Murray Humphreys and Frank Ferraro, where Humphreys is talking about the calling of an urgent commission meeting regarding some problem. Obviously he wasnt going to attend that meeting but still he had the right to push for one so his or the Outfits problems can be quickly solved.

The Colombos at least dont had 100 made men on the streets and maybe 200/300 associates and the family is confinated in Brooklyn while the bonannos in some case are still powerful.

Toodoped, could we say that the made man status only really mattered outside the Outfit? Like when they had interaction with other LCN families in the nation, but when it was about strictly Outfit business it didn't matter that much? For example, Gus Alex was acting boss of the entire Outfit at one time I read..

Well thats my belief also B, meaning when it came down to LCN stuff, the Outfit had their own made representatives, which were obviously in much smaller number.(which might be the answer to this whole thread) But when it came down to Outfit related activities, sometimes the duty was given to anyone who was highly trusted by the Italian bosses, such as Guzik, Hunt, Humphreys, Alex, Pierce, Larner, Kruse, Dworetzky, Lederer etc. Of course the most mysterious of them all was Alex. He was seen even in Rome talking to some "unknown and suspicious" individuals from European descent. For example regarding the Bonanno problem, made guys such as Ricca and Giancana were called upon to give their thoughts and opinions. Or regarding the Colombo problem, again made guys such as Accardo were called to give their votes. But when it came to the Outfit's share in Florida or any other place inside or outside the country, anyone from the non-Italian big shots had the right to talk for the whole organization, no matter the status of the individual infront of him.

As for Alex being the acting boss, actually there was one situation in which the whole top administration wasnt available (Accardo was on vacation, Aiuppa had some health problems and I dont remember regarding Cerone\s situation, but it was a few month period where Alex personally received messages from Aiuppa who was in hospital at the time, and delivered them to his capos. This is separate from the fact that previously Alex was also a member of the Outfit's top ruling panel.

I really wonder how the Outfit will evolve the coming years now that the current powers are all in their late seventies and eighties. How will it all play out in about 25 years when all the current powerhouses will have surely passed away to that big social club in the sky. Will there be enough capable men to keep the thing going?

I dont have any faith that the old groups such as the Outfit will ever make a huge come back mainly because by now the government already took over their rackets, meaning gambling is almost legalized everywhere, the protection racket was simply replaced by legalized security firms which most have connections to high profile politicians or their bodyguards, the banks are giving away any kind of deals just to make you a debtor for life so there goes loan sharking, and also drugs are becoming quite debatable, reagarding legalization, almost everywhere around the world. The only things which will remain are the extortion racket and semi-legit businesses with the help of coruption and of course the old time rackets such as burglary, robbery and murder.

In the words of Patsy Parisi: ''It's over for the little guy''

Nice one

My theory is that the Outfit (and also the little families remained) would return to be a well organizated street gang focused on street crimes and invest the dirty money in legit businness.The outfit could continue with his politic of give same importance to the non-italians and have few made men and more white associates and create maybe an alliance with white gangs in chicago area.

Furio, They already have an Alliance with the white gangs ; C-Notes & propably the Simon City Royals.

My theory is that the Outfit (and also the little families remained) would return to be a well organizated street gang focused on street crimes and invest the dirty money in legit businness.The outfit could continue with his politic of give same importance to the non-italians and have few made men and more white associates and create maybe an alliance with white gangs in chicago area. [/quote]

Furio, They already have an Alliance with the white gangs ; C-Notes & propably the Simon City Royals. [/quote]

Are the C-Notes still viable? And this is just a guess but I don't see outfit guys doing any business with anyone like that royal who got all that money and just got locked back up

Yes, The C-Notes are viable. Look back on the Outfit associates arrested for robbing drug stash houses. They got their intel from the C-Notes.

C-Notes have long been affiliated with the Grand Avenue crew. The C-Notes operated in the blocks around Smith Park, which is right in the heart of the GAC's territory and only a few blocks from where Joey Lombardo lived.

How work this alliance ? The outfit use the c notes as a recruitment gang ? And what are the bussiness with the royal? Drug? Burglary? ecc

Yall must of forgot about this: http://gangsterreport.com/chicago-mob-bust-grand-ave-crew-takes-hit/

I don't remember it

What about Panozzo, he isn't on inmate locator and on the illinois inmate locator found the son bobby jr

https://www.idoc.state.il.us/subsections/search/inms_print.asp?idoc=Y16145


ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
INTERNET INMATE STATUS
AS OF: Friday, May 19, 2017



Y16145 - PANOZZO, ROBERT JR
Parent Institution: EAST MOLINE CORRECTIONAL CENTER
Offender Status: IN CUSTODY
Location: EAST MOLINE


PHYSICAL PROFILE
Date of Birth: 08/21/1985
Weight: 200 lbs.
Hair: Brown
Sex: Male
Height: 6 ft. 03 in.
Race: White
Eyes: Blue

MARKS, SCARS, & TATTOOS
TATTOO, ARM, LEFT - ITALY

ADMISSION / RELEASE / DISCHARGE INFO
Admission Date: 09/12/2016
Projected Parole Date: 06/29/2018
Last Paroled Date:
Projected Discharge Date: 06/30/2021

SENTENCING INFORMATION
MITTIMUS: 14CR1457706
CLASS: X
COUNT: 1
OFFENSE: RICO ACQUIRE ENTERPRISE
CUSTODY DATE: 06/30/2014
SENTENCE: 8 Years 0 Months 0 Days
COUNTY: COOK
SENTENCE DISCHARGED?: NO

I wouldn't know Panozzo but TooDoped probably have information. This is an example Furio of C-Notes being actively involve with the Outfit in present day. That's why i joked that the Outfit is under the Folks Nation.

Panozzo has yet to be convicted of anything at either the state or federal level. I'm not sure what his bail is, if any.

Because it is a sh!tty life. The mob sprung out of Italian ghettos and prohibition. It was a phenomena. It reached impressive heights. And like anything big that dies, it takes a long time.

All that's left of the Chicago mob is the embers of something that once existed.

Of the known 30-ish made men published by the FBI -- what? -- 15, 20 years ago? -- go through the list and tick off everyone who is either dead or more than 75 years old.

You'll find a very short list.

Do bookies or loan sharks even exist anymore?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there is a single, genuinely active mobster in the entire Chicago metro area.