Why didn't castellano want Roy Demeo to be made?

I don't know demeos history all that well. Reading the book his kid wrote right now---pretty dang good. He says his dad told him that he and Paul
Didn't really like each other and castellano didn't want to make him but he did. I think in like 1975?

Was demeo already known as a drug dealer? Demeo hadn't really had any big time heat on him yet had he? Wasn't yet into porn was he? Was it just personal or something...?

I love the book murder machine but its one sided. Dominic constastly shitting on roy n his crew. Paul didnt give afuck if you was sicilian or not he was inducting 50 to 100 guys in 1977 roy made the cutt. His uncle couldnt pull strings like every other dad or uncle for him to get made. Roy was one of the first when the gambino books opend. In my opion his uncle nino probaly liked roy more.

Agree on Dom. Comes off as a complainer in MM. I actually believe Nino was justified in holding him back and out of the loop on a lot of things. Ultimately, Nino was right. Roy was a huge earner and would have been made regardless of who liked him. I wonder if his fate would have been different had he been a Luke.

Luke?

Lucchese Crime Family

Based on what I've read, Castellano didn't care for street guys like DeMeo. As much of a force that he was, I'm sure there were plenty of killers, car thieves and hijackers to pick from. In Murder Machine it also says Castellano thought Roy was a brown-noser and unpredictable. He finally conceded when Roy forged an alliance with the Westies.

Roy Demeo was a good earner but Castellano was a white collar boss and care of him because why made a guy if you can take his money anyway ? What "forced" Castellano was that demeo made an alliance with the westies that they can operate in italian zones and give the 10% to gambinos. So Thank also to Nino Gaggi Roy was made in 1978 and if wasn't whacked in 1983 for sure would be capo after Gaggi death.

If Roy wasn't clipped, I think Big Paul would've used him to clip Gotti and/or Gotti would've been too scared of retaliation from Nino who was in control of Roy. But Roy was killed, Paul was killed, and Nino had to accept changing of the guard.

For me Roy would stay with Gotti because both of them was street guys while Castellano was a mobster that believe to be a yuppie.

Murder Machine was such a great book... If only they could make a GOOD movie about it

Murder machine is the one that's basically Dominick montiglios autobiography right?

How do we really know Paul didn't want to make Demeo? The only proof of that I've seen was what Nino Gaggi told Demeo and others. How do we know Nino told the truth? Maybe it was Nino that didn't want Demeo made. Didn't Nino tell his nephew to stay out of the Gemini?

In roys sons book he says his dad told him they didn't like each other but as Roy rose up he would once in a while take weekly tribute out to the White House.

Roys son said Roy told him Neil dellacroce was a man with real power, but Paul was the figurehead.

Not saying that's proof, but it's proof that Roy also thought castellano didn't want him made.

In the Kuklinski book Richard said that Castellano loved the money that Roy send him but dont want to made him because all the roy crew highly use coke,Kuklinsky said that "testa was a paranoid skeleton" due the coke this is the reason because Gaggi said to his nephew to stay away from roy. At the end Castellano considered Roy and his crew too violent and can create too heat on the gambinos.

Maybe it's just me, but anytime I read or watch anything with Dominick Montigilio, he annoys the hell out of me

I think if your uncle nino was pauls right hand man for like 20 yrs hed have his nephew dom on the list to be made first up before gravano rite? Sammy didnt have a uncle or dad best friends wit the boss. You see that guy carmine the doc just a soldier had his kids made his nephews i think marino and john g. And rats always say oh they didnt want it for me. Maybe they didnt think you were material. Greg depalma said he was made with 11 other guys gravano said he was made with like 10 guys they probaly made 50 to 80 guys in that famiky 1977 no dom. Maybe he was to hippyish . Nino made roy i dont no were i read 1977 maybe in greg scarpas files. Scarpa said wayback crazy joe gallo shouldnt have been made and tommy karate for what ever reasons.

I think he was talking about demeo jrs. book..just sayin..

Ok. But capecis whole book is from that guys doms mouth i think. Dam uncle nino shot the cop and and the witness he really was about the gangster life. I read somehwere nino was out on bail when gotti and friends killed big paul and sammg knew and told nino you were next to be whacked we kinda saved your life.

Sammy was more into paul then he lead off in the book he was a paul hitman. He killed the guy from philly for paul and was kind under billioti.

@ Pmac

I think you are spot on here.......



I remember reading that book, the parts where Montiglio is whining about Nino not letting him make any money. Nines response always had me dying laughing, mostly cause coming from a poor background, I agreed with him.

Nino was like, " I charge you 150 ( or whatever) for rent, you get paid every week, I buy all the food. HOW ARE YOU BROKE?!!", lol.. The guy had like NO hustle....

Plus like Pmac pointed out, he's the nephew of the capo closest to the boss. What type of opportunities would a mobster of ANY WORTH be able to get into with that level of a connection to the top? He seemed to dumb to even run a package or a book, or really, he even seemed kinda bad at drug trafficking...

I also think Alfa is probably very right on... It would make sense that it was NINO, holding up Roy's initiation, as it was really the only way to keep control over the guy. Once he got made, he was basically uncontrollable.

I think this probably happened a lot... Didn't Gravano get his guy Melito made when the guys capo or soldier said no, " All I got around me is garbage.." Or some shit like that?

I think Franzese said something similar about his friend Champagne Larry, that his capo wouldn't make him out of jealousy, or something like that...

Also, like was said in that Boss of Bosses book, that Criminal/Corporate CEO image Paul was so fond of, was kinda blown by the fact he had Billotti as his chief confidant....

That whole thing was propagated in order to sway people against Castellano in the first place.

I'm not saying it's untrue but it's probably grossly exaggerated.

If you asked the older guys like Marino, Gallo or Failla if Castellano was a gangster they would probably say yes, and if they were asked about Gotti and Ruggiero they would probably say they didn't have the mentality to rise above associate.

I mean look at the Diane Sawyer interview Billy posted. Gravano didn't implicate ANYBODY on the tapes the Feds got him on.

Gotti was implicating people left, right and center.

Yet Gravano is the bad guy?

Poor Frankie Loc deliberately staying monosyllabic in the tapes in order not to implicate himself in anything - and he's still in prison to this day because of this Gotti retard!

You telling me he doesn't wish now in hindsight that Castellano was boss in 1990??

Moe, I gotta admit, you gotta good point there too...

That's what blew me away about Murder Machine. If Dominick was really meeting directly with Castellano on behalf of his uncle, then he really was a total fuckup. I mean if Dom wasnt a halfwit and a junkie he could've had a lot of power and could've been an extremely powerful capo, let alone in a position to be the boss eventually. He said Nino spent most of his time down in Florida so Dom should've been right there to take over for Nino's rackets when he retired.

Agreed 100%. Gotti didn't have the pedigree and wasn't groomed to be a boss from day 1 like Gambino or Castellano and it showed. Both of them were mafia royalty from Palermo. They were probably born rich from having their family in Cosa Nostra for decades, so it was more about loyalty, respect, and bloodlines for them than money. Reminds me of that George Anastasia quote about never make a poor man the boss.

Makes you wonder if Castellano had named Marino or Failla as underboss instead of Belloti if the Gotti takeover group wouldve respected and/or feared them enough as UB to not make a move on Big Paul.

Carlo gambino saw the writing on the wall before he died, He knew that demographics were changing and that the real money was in Labor racketeering, construction and more sophisticated crimes. There was almost 2 families and the Bergin boys were hijackers, gamblers, loan sharks, and all around thugs. Gotti was a gangster who should have never risen above capo. Gravano the rat he was knew how to make serious coin, you just never would want him as your business partner.
I think that if Marino or Failla would have taken over the Gambinos would be thriving today. Gotti and his showboating as well as the public wacking of Castellano destroyed the Borgata.

Orrrr,Poor Frankie Loc was ignorant 2 b so loyal 2 the asshole in the Brioni Suit..

Its pretty clear that Paul took a while to make Roy. I mean Roy was already a major earner for years so he could have been made in the first batch when Carlo died. I'm sure Nino proposed him for a while. Its pretty clear Paul looked down on Roy but wanted to keep him around because he was one of the bigger earners in the family and he could take care of hits Paul wanted done(Frank Amato, The eppolitos) After the Westies alliance Roy kind of forced pauls hand.

Gotti moved on Paul because it was kill or be killed. I do wonder though if Gravano would have still sided with Gotti if Demeo had still been around?

Castellano didn't like Roy, even though he was a good earner because he was out of control and too many murders.

I would say that if gravano or gotti approached Roy with there views and plans,then Roy would have went with them like a shot.Bye bye Nino aswell.

Not sure about that. Roy wasn't exactly a fan of Gotti. anyway its tough to say because Roy died a few years before this plan was ever discussed. I mean the only reason Sammy went along with it was because of Frankie decicco. Sammy wanted Frankie to be boss(He was a better option obviously) but Frankie let gotti have it. IMO Frankie figured that they would use Gotti as a lightning rod for the feds and eventually take over anyway