Gambino's vs Genovese's 60s 70s & 80s

Need some clarification from members. I keep hearing how dominant carlo n the gambino family was during these decades but were they more wealthy n powerful then benny squint n the Genovese family. I also hear how the Genoveses were the "rolls royce" of the 5 families. So did carlo dictate to benny squint n fat tony? Did paul manipulate the chin? Just curious bc im hearing conflicting info

From what I've read on the boards here, the Genovese have always been the most powerful family. Other posters will be able to explain in more details.

I doubt that Paul would or even couldve manipulated Chin. Gigante was extremely shrewed, but also seemed to like Castellano. He was really pissed off when Big Paul was killed and wanted Gotti and all of the conspirators whacked. I doubt anyone could dictate to the Genovese... they're way too powerful and smart.

Who is this Benny Squint character that you speak of?

Never heard of him. Never seen him.

How is someone that is named Phillip, nicknamed Benny?

I always wondered if he really wanted to kill Gotti. If he did, why did he fail?...I don't believe that the guy who blew Decicco up, mistaked another guy for Gotti....Who resembled John?

If anyone wanted Gotti dead, all you had to do was rent an apartment near The Ravenite, then, hire a sniper any day of the week. Case closed!

No One is unwhackable. If Anastasia could be whacked, then anyone can be.

Genovese family was more powerful, but not as stable as the Gambino family from Vito Genovese death to about the mid 1970's, (1975).

The Gambinos was powerful with Don Carlo due he was the commission Chairman but Genovese are the "Ivy League" because 1)their influenze on the other family for example Nardi and Greene went to NY to ask Salerno help,Caponigro thinked that the genovese give the ok to kill Bruno ecc;
2)they had no John Gotti;
3) they prefered to had a Ruling Panels so who is out of the family don understand who give orders;
4) apart a capo in Massachusetts the high ranking members always respected the omertà.

It's not just about killing Gotti but about not letting the Gambinos know the Genovese were behind it. That's why they used a car bomb... they wanted the Gambinos at the top to think the Zips did it, not the Genovese.

And it's harder to setup that way, because they were likely trying to avoid an all out war if the Gambinos found out the Genevese were behind it. Because there's no way the Gambinos wouldn't retaliate.

Don't forget Gotti was under 24-7 surveillance by the Feds. Anyone taking a shot at him would be arrested before the gun even stopped smoking.

Exactly !! In my eyes,and personal opinion, Gotti was a big Pussy !! He surrounded himself at all times with everyone and anyone,and made himself into this Gangster Celebrity Extraordinaire for the simple fact,He knew the Chin and others were gonna "PUSH HIS FUCKEN WIG BACK" for breaking sacred rules in whacking the boss with absolutely no authority to do so !! If Bobby Manna doesn't get caught plotting Gotti's death then guess what ! Gotti is laid out in the streets full of holes in a public display !!!! Gotti knew all this from the time he pulled off the hit and knew he was on his way to prison ! In my personal opinion , Gotti was scared to death !!!He was protected,Like a federally endangered species ! He did what he did so if and when they managed to kill this asshole it would be all over the news and media around the globe and there obviously would be a full scale attack on his perpetrators to no end !! Sort of like the pope being assassinated !!

I mean Gotti was a hothead and a moron, but saying he was a pussy is a little absurd. The man had his boss killed when he could've ran scared. He knew there was likely to be retaliation against him but he did it anyway. No way he convinces everyone to go along unless he had huge f'n balls. Balls yes, brains no.

And he didn't flip even when Gravano spilled the beans. Gotti kept his mouth shut and did his time.

I'd say the Genovese were bigger and more powerful, or at least equal to the Gambinos during the 60s. The thing was Vito was in prison and the three leaders in his place weren't always on the same page. I think Gambino took advantage of that, plus he was allied with Luchese, Colombo and Bruno so he held a lot of sway. I wouldn't bet that he ever dictated how things went to guys like Benny Squint and Fat Tony though.

By the time Castellano and Gigante were in power it seems the tide had turned a bit. According to Gravano, Gigante was doing a lot of manipulating of Castellano, not the other way around.

Even when Genovese was in prison, Carlo Gambino only had power of manipulation over one of the top 5 guys on the streets in the Genovese family.

so the genovese were always the more powerful and dominant family ?

No until the Don Carlo dead the Gambino was the most powerful but with castellano, Gotti and Gravano where on 21 active crews only 10 remain active the Genovese family thanks to the few high ranking rats become the most powerful LCN family in the US.

I'm not so sure. How about today?

i think that the genovese are the storngest family today.

you think that frank cali
can restore the power and control that the gambinos had in the 50s-70s ?

Fish cafaro spread alot of light as to wat happend with the genovese family in the early 70tys i wish he told more about tommy ryans snuff out. They guy was gambinos number 1 enemy in the usa. But if funzi tieri was a pupet of carlos a few yrs after his death they say funzi single handly set angelo bruno up for the shotgun blast. Funzi tieri comes up alot in scarpas fbi files. He was a force in bk but he was sick alot. Who knows.

Nope. The siggies can't repair the gotti - gravano damages.

i doubt that genovese family is currently stronger than the gambinos, the gambinos have several zips inside their ranks, more links with sicily,they are more rooted in at least 2 boroughs (queens and brooklyn)and more involved in drug trafficking

lol. Addition by subtraction. I think Victoria and his grandkids being on television so much gave us a glimpse of what John might have been like as a mobster. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

How do you know that Gambinos are more involved in drugs? Because Cefalù or Cali are the boss ? The genovese are low key and with few rats is impossible to understand how much are involved in drugs (ndrangheta control the coke and heroin so be a siggie dont means nothing in the drug traffick scene).

@ ItalianIrishMix
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I always wondered if he really wanted to kill Gotti. If he did, why did he fail?...I don't believe that the guy who blew Decicco up, mistaked another guy for Gotti....Who resembled John?

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Didn't Gravano in Underboss say that Luchesse soldier Frank Lentino? Bellini? Hearts?(can't remember) who was caught up in the blast was a bit similar to John Gotti. The hairstyle ,I think.

Wonder what became of him?
Never heard anything else about him.
Gravano made it sound like he lost his feet.

Tommy Ryan's murder has never really been properly explained as far as I'm concerned. According to Cafaro, in 1972, Lombardo was the boss and Tommy Ryan was the underboss who fronted as boss of the family. So that means Lombardo would have had to of given the OK to have Ryan killed. We know Ryan and Gambino didn't get along and that Gambino held a lot of sway, but making a boss give up his underboss would be pretty big.

Cafaro also says that by 1974, Lombardo chose Funzi Tieri as underboss who fronted as boss of the family. I've read several times that Tieri was close to Gambino or his puppet boss, but can't recall any actual evidence of this.

Figuring all this out would really answer which family was more powerful in the 70s.

I agree about the whole tommy ryan murder is confusing n the answer to what really happend would clear up alot (we will never know the real truth). Because legend has it Gambino had him killed over a unpaid debt from a drug deal. If the Genovese let another boss kill their acting boss or underboss than they were not more powerful. Also, the genovese was once the family of luciano the man who arranged everything, so u would think his family would be the strongest n with all of costello's connections. So with all of that being passed down to the next administration its hard to see them getting passed up. But empires do fall just like the Taylor street crew of the chicago outfit did. I just cant see them being replaced by the gambinos. Plus chin n gaspipe had gotti n gravano on the run after the murder of big paul. But all the experts say the gambinos were the most powerful especially during Carlo's reign

according to latest indictments the gambinos seem to be more involved in drugs, just look the indictmentt against the trucchio's crew in the queens
ndrangheta controls coke and heroin in new york? it is not true, they can have some grips but they don't dominate anything there

It frustrates me when people say the Calabrians are moving coke in NY.

They COULD be, but as of yet.... I haven't seen any large scale bust linked to mob guys moving stuff in the street, maybe that Decalvalcante thing awhile back....


I read an old thread, even guys like Ivey and Pizzaboy made this mistake. They ship coke OUT THE COUNTRY, bring heroin in, but in the US, THE MEXICANS RUN SHIT.... Europe, now different story....


And apparently in NY, it's the Dominicans all day...... Lots of competition from a lot of different groups, but they are out front....

And yeah, the recent indictments clearly show the Gambinos up to their necks I the shit....

it depends, the trucchio crew run a large drug operations all across queens, the bonannos seem to be involved in import of drugs from canada, they are still involved in drug traffickig and probably on the top in certain areas, i mean white neighborhoods

Does anyone know (when/why) the circumstances of the Genovese Administration panel Coming about?

I think it was in the late 1960s that they adopted a power-sharing arrangement. Fish Cafaro confirmed Benny Squint was the real boss after Vito Genovese died in 1969, but used puppet bosses like Tommy Ryan and Funzi to shield himself. It worked out for him, as he died a free man in 1987.

Not sure if this was the Genovese ruling administration in 1981:

Official Boss: Philip "Benny Squint" Lombardo
Street Boss: Vincent "Chin" Gigante
Front Boss: Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno
Underboss: Saverio "Sammy" Santora
Consigliere: Louis "Bobby" Manna

Same way Jimmy is nickname for Vincenzo, Tommy for Gaetano, Johnny for Giovanni, Joe for Giuseppe. They just Americanized their names how they saw fit.

Ask chin about the sacred rules of whacking a boss back in 57 when he tries to blow Frank Costello's head off. Okay for chin and not John? Explain.

I wonder though why isn't it Vincenzo = Vincent and Jimmy/James = Giacomo. Theoretically, Vincenzo and Jimmy are 2 names with completely different origins.

I never bought that unpaid drug debt thing with Tommy Ryan. First of all the amount is crazy. No way Carlo’s giving him 4 million or even 1 million. Not to mention, you don’t think Carlo could find suppliers if he wanted to. I think Tommy Ryan got got because he thought he was bigger than everybody else. He was a hothead. He was acting boss and thought he was the real boss, until Catena, the underboss at that time tore him a new asshole. Also, absolutely no way the Gambinos would hit the acting boss of the West Side with no repercussions, even if Tommy Ryan was an asshole. The West Side would have retaliated. Even if the Genovese okayed the hit, they certainly wouldn’t have let another family kill one of their own. That’s a big no no. Big Paul did that years later and no one could believe it. The only conclusion we can draw from the Tommy Ryan hit is that it was ordered by the Genovese, specifically the boss at the time Benny Squint, and carried out by the Genovese. I’m reminded of the Chin’s “we don’t break our captains. We kill them,” quite. They didn’t break Tommy Ryan down, they killed him.

It’s quite simple, Chin liked Paul because Paul kowtowed to his demands. It’s all about friends with benefits, Chin knew he could count on Paul and most importantly sway his decisions

Gotti on the otherhand, he couldn’t control. Like Scarfo said,’ I can see why our friend (Chin) doesn’t like him (Gotti), he’s sharp’

I agree; 4 million dollars in the 1970's is a ton of money to just put up in the ''air''. I believe this was plain and simple; A pure; flat-out whacking of a Front Boss by the internal leadership of the Genovese's. No-way the Gambino's would have had Eboli whacked without fatal repercussions. Catena; Eboli; and Miranda in the 1960s and early 70's had a mistrust of eachother. I think when Vito Genovese died; Eboli was rubbing people the wrong way; and got whacked because of it. Him; and Catena were definately feuding.

Another thing; Why would Eboli; A Boss; Go to another Boss to borrow $4 million dollars? Doesn't make sense; He could borrow within his own family.

One last thing; Thomas Eboli's brother Pasquale Eboli dissappeared; Do you think the Genovese's are going to sit-back and let two high-ranking guys in their family get whacked by the Gambino's. This was plain; and simple; ''Westside'' clean up.

I have no clue how they came up with Americanized names. Although Giacomo=Jack is pretty close in linguistics.