Sounds like BS to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Gambinos would have had one prostitution or extortion racket in Western Europe, let alone enough to divide amongst all these other groups.
Sounds like BS to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Gambinos would have had one prostitution or extortion racket in Western Europe, let alone enough to divide amongst all these other groups.
Im agree. All this oc groups had no need to organize a meeting. On france I doubt that there is the yakuza and the Cartels stay in spain because was the europe ' s door for the drugs. Maybe the corsican mafia and the italian mafia and maybe the triad but not together.
Sounds like BS to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Gambinos would have had one prostitution or extortion racket in Western Europe, let alone enough to divide amongst all these other groups.
Im agree. All this oc groups had no need to organize a meeting. On france I doubt that there is the yakuza and the Cartels stay in spain because was the europe ' s door for the drugs. Maybe the corsican mafia and the italian mafia and maybe the triad but not together.
The info about this meeting sounds like the script of this video lol
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I believe this unequivocally, but.........
Man, y'all are REALLY US Cosa Nostra -centric. @Mighty
I can't lie, I thought it was kinda funny you assumed the Gambinos would have the European skin trade, and would divide it up amongst those guys. Why would you not assume the Russians control the prostitution as they supply the girls?
It never occurs to y'all that the RUSSIANS, and Italian crime groups would be splitting the prostitution rackets? ( Albanian clans "sell" girls to crime groups, the Licciardis from Naples got their,girls like this)
That the Gambinos would or could be into a coke for heroin, or drugs for guns operation? Maybe they get the guns from Russian operatives?
My point is you guys have a tendency to wanna make everything revolve around the Five families. This is a GLOBAL thing, like the dark mirror version of like a CFR or Bilderberg meeting basically.
I don't know why it's so hard to accept that the Gambinos were an integral part of the international narcotics machinery, and clearly as evidenced by the Ursino thing, are actively trying to reestablish this position. Also, NY historically was very important to Palermo, and the Gambinos basically ARE the NY/Palermo faction of the Sicilians, am I wrong about this????
@ Furio
Cartels don't stay anywhere really. They follow the market, not a territory. This is why you see the Mexicans everywhere from America to Australia. It's why the Calabrians are on top, specifically cause they are embedded EVERYWHERE. It's why they overtook the Sicilians, who focused only on heroin and NY, whereas they focused on coke and ALL POINTS IN BETWEEN.
I mean, of course there is no Yakuza in France. But a Yakuza might go through a French gangster for heroin. The French gangster might be connected to an Italian, who's connected to the Colombian coke barons. The Colombian guerillas need guns, they might need a connect to the Russians. Yakuza and Triads have ALL KINDS OF GAMBLING AND CORPORATE CONNECTIONS. They could launder everyone's shit.
This globalization was a huge point in the Sixth family, come on y'all.
You had Vito a Sicilian, working with Calabrians, Bikers, Black gangsters, Asian heroin suppliers, Irish hash suppliers, Lebanese gangsters, South American gangsters, Cubans, he's in the Dominican Republic, he's was, fuck, everywhere lol....
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I believe this unequivocally, but.........
Man, y'all are REALLY US Cosa Nostra -centric. @Mighty
I can't lie, I thought it was kinda funny you assumed the Gambinos would have the European skin trade, and would divide it up amongst those guys. Why would you not assume the Russians control the prostitution as they supply the girls?
It never occurs to y'all that the RUSSIANS, and Italian crime groups would be splitting the prostitution rackets? ( Albanian clans "sell" girls to crime groups, the Licciardis from Naples got their,girls like this)
That the Gambinos would or could be into a coke for heroin, or drugs for guns operation? Maybe they get the guns from Russian operatives?
My point is you guys have a tendency to wanna make everything revolve around the Five families. This is a GLOBAL thing, like the dark mirror version of like a CFR or Bilderberg meeting basically.
I don't know why it's so hard to accept that the Gambinos were an integral part of the international narcotics machinery, and clearly as evidenced by the Ursino thing, are actively trying to reestablish this position. Also, NY historically was very important to Palermo, and the Gambinos basically ARE the NY/Palermo faction of the Sicilians, am I wrong about this????
@ Furio
Cartels don't stay anywhere really. They follow the market, not a territory. This is why you see the Mexicans everywhere from America to Australia. It's why the Calabrians are on top, specifically cause they are embedded EVERYWHERE. It's why they overtook the Sicilians, who focused only on heroin and NY, whereas they focused on coke and ALL POINTS IN BETWEEN.
I mean, of course there is no Yakuza in France. But a Yakuza might go through a French gangster for heroin. The French gangster might be connected to an Italian, who's connected to the Colombian coke barons. The Colombian guerillas need guns, they might need a connect to the Russians. Yakuza and Triads have ALL KINDS OF GAMBLING AND CORPORATE CONNECTIONS. They could launder everyone's shit.
This globalization was a huge point in the Sixth family, come on y'all.
You had Vito a Sicilian, working with Calabrians, Bikers, Black gangsters, Asian heroin suppliers, Irish hash suppliers, Lebanese gangsters, South American gangsters, Cubans, he's in the Dominican Republic, he's was, fuck, everywhere lol....
I think this one warrants further discussion..
CabriniGreen I am not focused only on the 5 families but I know some thing:
1) the Gambinos have ties with the Sicily all right but thats it and the French connection times are over; 2) yes the Cartels go where are the money and the money stay in Spain,the mexicans made deals with all the oc groups that had their men in spain that buy the drugs and transport to home; 3)Russians and Albanians are different things, the first are even white collar while the second are most on prostitution and drug trafficking; 4)Yakuza buy tge drug in the golden triangle and sell it in Australia, west coast ecc the Chinatown are most present and do the triads; 5) any of this oc groups made money in different ways and dont need to meet also because they dont trust each others.
I mean, for a long time, people felt the same about different mob groups from around the country interacting, like they COULDNT be organized or operating in concert... Something to chew on...
I think you might be confusing 1994 with today 2017;
In 1994, the Gambinos might have started to reactivate their international connections. I can't help but notice this is the same year the CC clan had a 5000 plus kilo load of coke siezed on its way to Europe. Also, this is one year after Riina gets arrested, and if not for Riina, the Pizza connection players woulda never been outta business. And these were ALL Gambino allies who were based in Palermo, and depended on the connection to NY to get money. Like most of that money went to SICILY, Sicily always needed NY.
It's a couple years before Cali is made, and a few years later we know the Sicilian side was definitely trying to reestablish business relations with the Gambinos, through him.
I just threw French in there for the hell of it Furio, lol there wasn't any French group mentioned in the book, I don't think.... The Ursino thing was a coke to over there, heroin to over here situation, but let me ask you this.... Where do you think the Calabrians get their heroin? Maybe Albanians, or Chinese, OR Russians.......
As far as Spain, you mean the money is invested there? I know Spain was like a clearing house for awhile, where you could go and broker huge loads of coke, many crime groups set up home base there, like Russians, or the Sicilian Grado heroin clan. But I was under the impressions the Colombians are embedded there, and that the Mexicans tried to establish a base, but were unsuccessful.
Also I'm not sure if that is still the case, Spain being the coke haven. I think that function is served by the Netherlands now, you see some of the seizure numbers? Plus you got the East Afriacan coast, and the Elephant in the room, the Calabrians with their port.
Also Furio, this is from 1994, I don't think it's the Mexicans all the way yet, I think this is still the Cali cartel era.... That's why they specifically say Colombians I think....
Russians move coke Furio, and if they don't, you better believe SOMEONE IS MOVING COKE THERE. But we don't really believe anyone but Russians are setting up shop in Moscow do we? (Furio, you gotta check out Gommora, there is a coke dealing real estate buying Russian boss in Spain, another flick I love is the We own the night, lot of Russian coke dealers...)
Ditto for Hong Kong or Tokyo. Some rich fuck there wants coke, SOMEONE will find a way to get it there...
And then there are the guns, the Colombian guerillas, Russian and Italian brokers could facilitate this... I don't know, after reading the Sixth family, and reading a lot about how Globilization affects commerce in general, this isn't even that far fetched to me...
Also, I feel compelled to say, you know businessmen have meetings like this every day, and at the end of the day, these are consummate businessmen, corrupt, violent and amoral, but businessmen nonetheless
The emergence of strategic partnerships is not simply the outcome of criminal minds at work, but owes much to the profound economic and geo-political changes which have taken place over the last decade. Even more efficiently than legal operators, organized crime groups have been quick to take advantage of new opportunities: they have exploited the internationalization of legal, commercial and financial markets, the relaxation of international boundaries, scientific and technological advances - particularly in the field of telecommunications - and new geo-political configurations around the world. Taken together, these elements have encouraged the internationalization and progressive integration of criminal markets in goods and services, which now appear regulated by consent, rather than by violent power struggles, into sectoral and geographical areas of competence. This has occurred at national level in Italy, where instead of competing for the same markets, a kind of ‘syndication’ of the four major organized crime groups - Cosa Nostra, the Camorra (from the Naples area), the ‘Ndrangheta’ (Calabria) and the United Holy Crown (Apulia) - has taken place. Where once these groups fought for market shares, nowadays when they operate outside their home regions they divide up territory and activities without undue conflict, while services such as money laundering tend to be centralized in the hands of professional outsiders. The same pattern has developed at international level, as will be seen below.
One thing though, they might be confusing Cammora gangs with the Gambino family.
I think this time period is the Secondigliano alliance era, am I right Furio?
In his book, Saviano says certain clan like Licciardi monopolized criminal activities in certain parts of Western Europe, like the Chech Republic...
And indeed, these activities included protitution...
After soviet union fall all the camorra clans especially the Secondigliano alliance and the Dilauros expanded its bussiness in the east europe. If I can say the truth,Im not an expert but in the 1992-1993 Riina tried like escobar to impose his order on the italian state that answered almost beheading cosa nostra so Provenzano sell Riina and tried to rebuild cosa nostra with a most low key strategy. The alleged meeting reference in the book is generic but can be true but repeat in 5he 1994 mafia,camorra and ndrangheta was in a bad situation and maybe the meetings was used to re-up and open new bussiness way, who know !
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I believe this unequivocally, but.........
Man, y'all are REALLY US Cosa Nostra -centric. @Mighty
I can't lie, I thought it was kinda funny you assumed the Gambinos would have the European skin trade, and would divide it up amongst those guys. Why would you not assume the Russians control the prostitution as they supply the girls?
It never occurs to y'all that the RUSSIANS, and Italian crime groups would be splitting the prostitution rackets? ( Albanian clans "sell" girls to crime groups, the Licciardis from Naples got their,girls like this)
That the Gambinos would or could be into a coke for heroin, or drugs for guns operation? Maybe they get the guns from Russian operatives?
My point is you guys have a tendency to wanna make everything revolve around the Five families. This is a GLOBAL thing, like the dark mirror version of like a CFR or Bilderberg meeting basically.
I don't know why it's so hard to accept that the Gambinos were an integral part of the international narcotics machinery, and clearly as evidenced by the Ursino thing, are actively trying to reestablish this position. Also, NY historically was very important to Palermo, and the Gambinos basically ARE the NY/Palermo faction of the Sicilians, am I wrong about this????
Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that there is international organized crime and all these groups could possibly work together. Plus that the Gambinos are involved in the international drug scene.
But the source says that all these groups got together to divide up the rackets in Western Europe. If the Russians are selling girls to the Italians, then why would the Gambinos need to be there? Or the Yakuza and Triads for that matter? Or the Colombians??
Now I know Japanese and Chinese groups are involved in international prostitution rings and are most likely bringing girls over to western Europe, but do you really think all these groups got together to divide up territory?
Like I said I'm aware all these groups are linked together and have business relationships, but I can't see a reason they would all need to meet up.
Sounds Crazy !! But,Gambinos and Genovese have interests in European countries being bars,restaurants,casinos,hotels and I know Richie Martino had offices in England,London relating to his Porn businesses and telecomunications. He sent a few of his guys to England where they beat up and assaulted a competitor who refused to stop going against him and thought he was safe because he was overseas ! He was very wrong !! There was also allegations and fbi files relating to Steve Wynn and the Some Genovese crime fsmily members and his and theyre interests in Hotels and Casinos in Europe , I think it involved Fat Tony Salerno. I also remember a while back reading somewhere of Gambino family members and theyre interests in Hotels,Restaurants in Sicily on beachside tourist resorts and real estate. I also think there was something about partnerships about beachside concessions tourist rentals over lounge chairs,beach umbrellas,bars in sicily
Again, I'm not saying I automatically believe this happened.. ( My best Johhny Sack voice... " What's this,... The Fuckin UN NOW!!!!!")
But I do see it as at least plausible, definitely intriguing....
For one, a lot of these groups have already done business before, going back a long time, and I'm not talking even Europe.
Rothstien, Luciano and Lansky go back to the early to mid twenties with the Chinese and heroin. Throw in Englishmen and Scottish distillers, ( some from Canada too) French Corsicans, Turkish morphine suppliers, and multiethnic liquor distributors, and you got an early blueprint for a polygot syndicate.
Think of the Gas tax shit with the Russians. The Naples gangs are very tied into the Chinese. We see the interactions between Italy and South America.
The only thing that's admittedly seems weird is the Yakuza. But truthfully, I have no idea how they interact with the greater criminal landscape of Europe.
The Gambinos meeting over there seems plausible to me, if they needed to reestablish the narcotics routes. The only thing I would ask is, WHO WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN REPRESENTING THEM AT A MEETING? That's the question that reveals it as true or bullshit to me. But to dismiss it outright?
That's shortsighted to me......
In that book, it has Sicily trying to set up a cocaine monopoly in 1987. And they had the infrastructure for it, because of their heroin routes. Like I said Riina gets arrested in like 92-93. SOMEONE WOULD HAVE HAD TO FILL THAT VOID. ( And reading a lot, we see that it was Naples bosses, Calabrian mobsters..) Why not the players that ran it before Riina took over everything? That to me is the reason they would be there. Did Riina do business with the Families in NY like the Palermo clans did with the Pizza connection? I'd think not..... I don't recall the Corleonsesi having a distribution arm in NY, ( Maybe Catalano??) like the Cherry Hills were for Palermo.
I mean, all those billions went to SICILY!!!!! Most of it anyway, DID NOT STAY IN NY!!!! The Gambinos have been a mechanism by which the drug trade is facilitated between the Mafia of America and that of Europe. That Calabrian coke ain't all for US mob crews. It's for Europe. Like a lot of coke probably DOES go to Cosa Nostra, just through Calabrian hands first.
I could see the Gambinos being there as a continuation of that same cocaine initiative, as well to reestablish the position that was lost to the Corleonesi.
Same reason a few years later you got Sicilian bosses coming OVER HERE TO MEET WITH CALI. To get those routes back up, because they were INTREGAL TO THE SUCCESS OF SICILY.
I think Eurodave described them best, without drugs, and a city like NY, the Sicilian clans were kind of peasant like. They REALLY need drugs and NY. Same thing with the Calabrians, except they didn't have tunnel vision about NY, they spread out more, have Germany and Ontario and Australia for distribution. The Naples clans have internal distribution in Italy, they couldn't really fight them for it.
The rest of Europe is split I suspect, and maybe with one of these trans-crime meetings..