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Buffalo Family in 2016

Posted By: furio_from_naples

Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/18/16 12:38 PM

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/09/buffalo-mob-may-be-dead-but-it-is-not.html

Quote:
If the resulting 2006 FBI chart was correct, the Buffalo crew appeared to be a little top heavy. A boss and underboss, a consigliere, and four capos are shown to be presiding over a crew of just 16 “soldiers,” made guys who presumably do most of the heavy lifting.


Chart founded on the web

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 05:47 AM

Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 08:42 AM

Thanks Giacomo,so Buffalo made a couple of guys,do you have the names ?
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 11:30 AM

Are those Papalias related to the killed Hamilton boss?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Hollander
Are those Papalias related to the killed Hamilton boss?


http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.it/search/label/Buffalo?m=0

Yes are the brothers of Frank.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 03:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.


How did you find out that Buffalo had making ceremonies recently and that Utica made Cardinale and Feliciano? If you don't mind my asking.

If they made 4 guys in the last 6 years, then they can't be considered dead in my book.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.


How did you find out that Buffalo had making ceremonies recently and that Utica made Cardinale and Feliciano? If you don't mind my asking.

If they made 4 guys in the last 6 years, then they can't be considered dead in my book.


He made it up as Giacamo does with most things he says, he was exposed as a bullshitter last year.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.


lol You really are a weird little prick. Stop making things up.

As for Furio how many times do you have to make this thread to realise Buffalo aren't a viable family?
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 06:12 PM

Utica
Phillip Corelli 2012 or 2013
James Feliciano 2012 or 2013

Buffalo
Ronald Cardinale 2012 or 2013
Anthony Torado 2015? Youngest made man in family at age 30.

Utica still does business with the Genovese family.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.


How did you find out that Buffalo had making ceremonies recently and that Utica made Cardinale and Feliciano? If you don't mind my asking.

If they made 4 guys in the last 6 years, then they can't be considered dead in my book.


He made it up as Giacamo does with most things he says, he was exposed as a bullshitter last year.


I try to judge people by my own interactions with them, but if Giacamo can't mention a reliable source for these claims then I'm afraid I also can't take him seriously anymore.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Utica
Phillip Corelli 2012 or 2013
James Feliciano 2012 or 2013

Buffalo
Ronald Cardinale 2012 or 2013
Anthony Torado 2015? Youngest made man in family at age 30.

Utica still does business with the Genovese family.


What are your sources regarding this intel Giacomo?
Posted By: gangstereport

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/19/16 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Furio, Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr, lives in Las Vegas, and is semi-retired. He is not the underboss, but he might be the family's consigliere as he has sat down with members during disputes, or he is just a highly respected member.
Victor Sansanses has pretty much run things for nearly two years, so he might be boss. Buffalo is not that active, or they have staying under the radar. Utica and Ontario crews are the most active, as both have made members a decade ago, with Utica making Cardinale and Feliciano in this decade, Ontario bringing in a few Cotroni guys, while Buffalo has just recently made a couple of guys. Erie, Rome, and Endicott are dead, while Syracuse has a couple of old soldiers left and a handful of associates in that area.
A third of that family is retired or semi-retired. My count is 26 or 27 members left. Could be more.


lol You really are a weird little prick. Stop making things up.

As for Furio how many times do you have to make this thread to realise Buffalo aren't a viable family?


+1

I noticed this recently on another thread lol he just makes things up

this family is dead has been for years
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 12:23 AM

Buffalo native here, long time history buff and long time reader of this forum. When it comes to the Buffalo family, they ARE still active. There is still a heirachy in place (yes, where underlings kick up to the top and follow orders) and there has been a replenishment of young talent in the last decade. All this talk about them not being viable is bs. Members are still under surveillance by BPD and NYS Police, Im not sure about the Feds but they are thought to be viable per local and state law enforecement's definition. Giacomo may be reaching quite a bit in his assesement but hes not entirely wrong.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 12:36 AM

There are no Buffalo soldiers who are Syracusans, there are associates, and even they are mostly affiliated with New York and Sicily.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 12:43 AM

Feliciano and Cardinale have definitely been recently made and have a bunch of 20 somethings under them
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:28 AM

This is why I kinda defer to people who live in the area.

Look, the only weird thing I've seen Giacomo post was something about Catalano. But he went back to Sicily.

I went back into the archives, lots of people respected Giacomos post...

What was this big thing that he made up that he was banned for? This is the only forum I go on, there seems to be a TON of drama on these forums lol...
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:30 AM

@ gangster report

What other thread, if you mind me asking? Y'all got me curious as hell, as his info always seems pretty good....
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:56 AM

Source, New York State Troopers Bureau of Organized Crime report.

It shows Utica is still very active.

The_Rooster, Syracuse has no made men? What about Carlo Pelli? I know he moved to Florida at the turn of the millennium and is in his 80's, or is he just an associate?
Anthony Todaro has a question mark by his name as not sure he is made, but he is active on the streets. BPD has him meeting with with Frank BiFulco, Frank Falzone, and Joe Pieri (excluding blood relations)
Feliciano has about a dozen associates around him, most in their 20s and 30s, with a few in their 40s and 50s.
Cardinale has guys around his age, with a few in their 20s and 30s.
From the report, BiFulco and Falzone both want the top spot, but Falzone has backed off. BiFulco is seen as the top guy in Buffalo, but Victor Sansanses has a lot of pull in upstate New York. Victor is listed in Buffalo, but he is an Utica guy.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:10 AM

I don't know guys, seems on the ball to me.

I gotta look up that crime report, that seems as legit a source as there is, no?
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:18 AM

I started a thread years ago and asked if there was any mob activity in Sacramento back in the day. I got a bunch of wannabe goombah chest thumping bullshit in response about how the mob would never bother with a place like Sacramento. Then Vacari responded and gave me a terrific rundown of the SF and San Jose soldiers that were running gambling and selling drugs in Sac. I followed up on some of the names and sure enough there were connections to Sacramento. I don't know what problem people have with Vacari or what thread it originated in but to me it's a bunch of bullshit. Vacari is one of the most thorough contributors here. Also, most of the stuff I see people accusing him of "making stuff up" about are petty things. Getting a name spelled wrong, or being one year off about a certain event. Just real petty shit. Keep posting here Vacari. A lot of us appreciate you. And great info about Buffalo.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:34 AM

@ oak

I saw the same thing in a thread about Joe Adonis, I think it was alfanosgirl who was looking for info, and Giacomo came up with the dope. She was very appreciative.

Hey, look I'm not looking to get into one of these beefs, like shit everyone respects Pizzaboy on here, but I can distinctly remember him and a couple others trying to run gangsterreport off the boards. All cause of some bullshit with that rat Cicale, who a lot of guys seem obsessed about, ( him and Alite, I still don't fuckin understand the interest there...) I think Pizza actually suggested to him to stop posting, it pissed me off then....

I Keep asking, exactly what did he make up? I feel like if YOU guys can't tell me that much, then how much should I take that seriously?

(Like it's been pointed out by guys like Ivey and others, there seems to be a lot of animosity, trolls, and just weird beefs on these forums. And even HE has an irrational dislike of Detroit. Some guy in the Trump thread referred to Obama like he was just dogs shit cause he's black, but I don't fall down the rabbit hole with that shit anymore, I learned my lesson to not feed the trolls, they not interested in OC really anyway..)

Giacomo has posted shit I can't even google, he came through in my own King of Dope thread, and my Paolo Gambino thread with real solid info.
Are you guys sure it wasn't something else? Ivey said a bunch of guys were kicked off a forum for, well actually I forget, but it sounded like some bullshit...
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:45 AM

@ oak

Yeah, the only thing I ever saw him post where I was like, " I dunno" , was about Catalano, but even that was like, nothing.


Look we had guys saying Philly was nothing, ( hell I was kinda one of em lol)
But the guys in Philly were like no, they are active. The indictment came out, and everyone that doubted had egg on their face. WE DONT KNOW IT ALL, lol it's cool

Look up a thread with Pizzaboy and a guy from the Bronx named ON_DAFLY, or something to see what I mean. A thread about a guy named Wahoo, they jumped down his throat and called him a liar, and none of em were even in a position to verify of invalidate what he was saying ( Pizza vouched for him) because they weren't from the Bronx. It's like they were jealous, it was very strange to me....
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 10:19 AM

I also wanna add, if a city is big enough to support a sports team, (And even some of the biggest cities can't figure out how to finance em, look at the Rams, or the Supersonics) it probably can support an organized crime network, at the very least, the gambling and shy action so prevalent of the East coast, am I wrong here?

We saw an indictment and arrest awhile back about Sinaloa being there ( which in itself is highly interesting as, to my knowledge they haven't set up shop like that in MUCH bigger NY...) so the idea of a major crime syndicate being there is THAT far fetched? Really? Especially it being a football and hockey town, AND close to the Canadian border. If they are off the Feds radar, it would make sense if we don't hear from them. And why would the local and state police bust up gambling rings? What's the percentage there? Headlines? They get more outta the Cartel/Sinaloa headlines probably....
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 01:13 PM

Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
I don't know guys, seems on the ball to me.

I gotta look up that crime report, that seems as legit a source as there is, no?


How is that a legit source when it doesn't fucking exist. What is wrong with you, starting to think you might be Giacamo
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 01:15 PM

Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
I also wanna add, if a city is big enough to support a sports team, (And even some of the biggest cities can't figure out how to finance em, look at the Rams, or the Supersonics) it probably can support an organized crime network, at the very least, the gambling and shy action so prevalent of the East coast, am I wrong here?

We saw an indictment and arrest awhile back about Sinaloa being there ( which in itself is highly interesting as, to my knowledge they haven't set up shop like that in MUCH bigger NY...) so the idea of a major crime syndicate being there is THAT far fetched? Really? Especially it being a football and hockey town, AND close to the Canadian border. If they are off the Feds radar, it would make sense if we don't hear from them. And why would the local and state police bust up gambling rings? What's the percentage there? Headlines? They get more outta the Cartel/Sinaloa headlines probably....



No, it isn't far fetched at all CC, but you can't blame someone for being skeptic about Buffalo when it was pretty much consensus among law enforcement and mob watchers that Buffalo was dead. I'm very surprised to hear that they made 2 guys recently who have a lot of associates under them. And if that's the case then they aren't dead in my book.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 01:26 PM

No, just an associate I dont even think hes alive anymore.

Utica is active, even though it is severly limited to book and shy. Some restaurant and bar scams, theft, arson, revenge type activities.

BiFulco is definitely going to be top of the heap now, and has been stronger than Victor as soon as he got out after that 10 year stint.

I dont know if Anthony Todaro is made but I know he wants to be. Tons of wannabes around him trying to impress. The amount of employees at La Nova that try to jockey for friendship on a daily basis is enough to classify that as a crew alone. Drugs, book, shy, robberies, burglarlies, revenge type activities.

The thing with Buffalo/Niagara is that it has a huge Italian population still, same reason Philly has been able to keep recruiting and recruiting even if that talent isnt anything special, but in 2016 being a special, younger talent in this type of life is few and far between. Italian culture is embedded in Western NY (Amherst, Hamburg, Tonawanda included) and along with that comes Mafia culture, the thought of being the Mafia, wanting to be around conneced guys and wanting to impress them is just a given. From the casino in downtown Buffalo to the casino in Niagara Falls, the influx of tourists and like Cabrini said the pro sports there helps this family stay viable per local and state law enforcement's classification.

If a city can house NHL and NFL that keeps the mob in business there off of book and shy alone.

The death of this family isnt accurate, even if one were to take away the Ontario crew (which I believe is starting to become more and more autonomous and flies more under the Toronto )flag you still have plenty of willing and able guys in Buffalo/Niagara to help maintain its existence. Lets say there is only 15 active made guys left, they are in my opinion, a strong 15 with a good sized network of associates, including knock around guys (and some murderers) that, mixed with the infrastructure of the region, and the recruitment of younger Italian American kids to pull from this family should be considered viable, ten years from now maybe not.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 01:33 PM

Lol some guys get so defensive on here. Im telling you that these guys are active, Im born and bred here, know they are active as of 2016 and dont need a crime report to verify it for me. Are they Genovese? Gambino? Philly? NO. But they are still viable and active and make money.TONS of Italian American kids out here would love to be recruited, this isnt an easy-opportunity city for the youth to begin with and if the chance of comraderie, power and money is there any sort of person, young to old, Italian or Irish or whatever is going to be attracted to it.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 01:40 PM

Per FBI standards they may be dead because they dont need to go after them at a federal level and resources go after the big drug suppliers there (Sinola) but per local and state law enforcement the family is still watched and several members are under surveillance. This is directly from law enforcement's mouth.

Mob watchers have counted all the families down and out many times over but that always seems to change. I think the NY Families have died about 20 times now.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 02:26 PM

@ The_Rooster

Good info my man

@TommyGambino

Look, Ima try to be nice here, you always seemed cool. I like Sonny and Sinatra, they have said the same things about Giacomo.

That's why I asked you guys point blank, WHAT DID HE GET KICKED OFF THE FORUM FOR EXACTLY?

I gave the example of Ivey, and how he explained that a lot of long time posters got the boot from another site for who knows what exactly. Some kinda politicized beef or some shit who knows?

If you can't tell me what he said or made up, why the fuck should I listen?
I mean it had to be something specific, and it had to be kinda big, right? So WHAT WAS IT? I mean, spit it out, is it a secret?


And don't take this the wrong way, but aren't you from like England? Seriously all due respect, but what the fuck would you know about what's happening in the streets of Buffalo? TODAY!!!! Are you trying to tell me Rooster is trolling?

You know when a guy like Dante says, there are tons of young guys in the streets in Jersey, I listen, why would I not?

If pmac says, the Dominicans have a lock on drugs in NY, I listen.


If the philly posters post about philly, I read. Ditto with the New England guys.

When Smeary post about the cartels, I'll always see what it's about.

Furio is IN Italy........

Like I,said, I really don't keep up with forum bullshit and clicks and all these different beefs, its people hating Moes jokes, or if it's Ralphie everyone's a ape, or some other borderline nonsense. ( check the Trump thread) Like sometimes I feel embarrassed coming on here looking for meaningful discussions.

And Rooster is right, it's something I noticed a long time ago. Y'all be taking this shit PERSONALLY, like you really fuckin know these people.
When I see the FEELINGS guys put into guys like Cicale, or Alite, or this city and that one, hell, even the animosity towards guys like Joe Bonnano, baffles me.
And don't even mention any kind of politics, or the racial bullshit....


Is Oak Delusional? Did Giacomo NOT give him good info on the west coast?

Ya know it wasn't that long ago Ivey accused me of NOT READING( Lmao) and making up shit. PLEASE, okay.

I will say this though, Giacomo, you might have to post the actual report, cause this shit won't go away I'm thinking.

And with that, Ima have to take a break from this shit, y'all getting on my nerves. You get more headaches and bullshit than meaningful responses on here anyway.

@ Billybrizzi



I do recommend American Desperado, and 000. I love The Last Godfather too, Luciano Leggio was a compelling figure.....
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 02:45 PM

I am from England, I don't claim t know Buffalo, so I listen to the people that do, FBI, so called mob experts. Yet a guy from California (Giacamo_Vacari) knows the ins and outs of most families in the US, Cabrini, your problem is you want to believe in what he's saying. He's a proven liar, used fake names to make out he was 'In the know'

Yes, Rooster is lying and probably an alt, we've seen people like him come in and make ridiculous statements several times, it's bullshit.

Posted By: alexandarns

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 03:02 PM

set in buffalo 1967.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErsJ3LLYk2M
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 03:30 PM

Tommy, think what you want man. 15 made guys (at minimum) in a heavily Italian region from a Mafia family that has been around forever arent viable, right. There is no organized schemes going on, no book, no extortion, no loan sharking, no associates, no younger generation vying to impress the higher ups. All these made guys are just home watching TV and looking out their windows wishing they knew how to make money illegally but just cant figure it out. No statements I made are ridiculous and Im not an alt for Giacomo. Tell us what my lies are, Ive been in Buffalo my whole life and I know what goes on.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 03:42 PM

I havent just "come in", Ive been reading this forum for a long time. Again, is Buffalo the Genovese? Gambino? Philly? NO. Are FBI accounts a good indicator of a family's importance to them at a federal level yes, is it the whole picture from local and state classification, no. Is there bigger problems in Buffalo than a small LCN family? Yes, all the black and hispanic gangs and recently the Sinola. These current older guys need younger guys around them to help procure more money into their pockets. Is this family small, yes. But it isnt dead, sorry. I could care less if its viable or dead, I think the history of the family is disgusting (like all families) but their operations have shifted heavily away from the nasty violence seen in the 60s and 70s so who the fuck cares, let them exist at this point (probably what the feds are thinking). This country is so fucked with or without them it really doesnt matter.

Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 04:05 PM

It is kinda fishy that now out of nowhere a poster appears from Buffalo who confirms everything GV has stated.

Just saying..
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 04:12 PM

I said that what Giacomo said wasnt ENTIRELY wrong, Im not legitimizing him at all. Him saying that Utica is most active is wrong, Im debunking his soldiers in Syracuse theory, his made ceremony dates are off, it happened before 2012/2013. And him talking about Erie and Endicott as potential modern day crew bases is ridiculous, ofcourse there is nothing there, for about 50 years now. Vic is highly respected though and BiFulco is essentially the new boss already. He is a mobster to the fullest and does have a lot of younger guys under him.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 04:17 PM

Like I said, believe what you guys want, makes no difference to me, Ive just been wanting to give my insight on Buffalo for a while and finally did.

Assuming that 15 made guys (at minimum, and Im basically removing the Ontario crew altogether) dont have day to operations in a region like Western NY is just silly to me, even if I wasnt from Buffalo. I know what goes on here and I have sources that are more than credible.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: The_Rooster
I said that what Giacomo said wasnt ENTIRELY wrong, Im not legitimizing him at all. Him saying that Utica is most active is wrong, Im debunking his soldiers in Syracuse theory, his made ceremony dates are off, it happened before 2012/2013. And him talking about Erie and Endicott as potential modern day crew bases is ridiculous, ofcourse there is nothing there, for about 50 years now. Vic is highly respected though and BiFulco is essentially the new boss already. He is a mobster to the fullest and does have a lot of younger guys under him.


Understood Rooster, I stand corrected and appreciate the info you are providing.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 06:33 PM

It's not so much I WANT to believe, I find ALL of the mafia interesting.
Plus, like I said before, he has come up its VERY GOOD INFO previously...


What bothers me is you can't tell me what he made up. Yet knowledge of it is so widespread among posters? Okay, I'll ask again, what was the magic moment where it was like aha!! Can you elaborate for me a little?

I can't just let something like that go, EXPLAIN THE INCIDENT TO THE BOARD, . Cause like I said, I'm not on all the forums...
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 06:37 PM

@Rooster

Okay, got you. I posted before I saw your new post. That's all I was asking, a little confirm or no confirm, ya know? Cause I sure as shit can't confirm or deny it.

And unless I know for sure, I'm not comfortable just going with the flow and calling someone a liar.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 06:45 PM

And for the record, you seem true to your word to me. Alfa made a point a long time ago, that we shouldn't automatically run people off the boards if they have special insight to a particular area..... You seem like you KNOW Buffalo.

I for one am interested in hearing more.

I STILL wanna hear from you guys about these incidents on the other forums, the thing is no one has spelled it out really.

Case in point, Rooster being from Buffalo, can critique what Giacomo is saying, and it absolutly seems credible. Just give me the facts man, lol

@Tommy

I didn't mean to snap at you, this felt like it might have been something personal or who knows what. Like I said, there have beensome beefs on here that just baffle me, I thought this might be one....
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 06:51 PM

A lot of what he said is bull. But the family is still a family with a structure and viable per many people that know of them, if the FBI says they arent per their classification thats all the better for these guys. But seriously beyond all the naming of guys and whos in what position dont you think the higher ups know they need to recruit younger guys into the organization if not to carry on tradition then at least to make money for themselves? 15 made guys is still 15 made guys. Casinos all over out here, 2 pro teams, colleges everywhere, tourists, Canada 2 minutes away, tons of hot real estate, big pizza businesses, bars open til 4am, corrupt contractors, etc. etc.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
It's not so much I WANT to believe, I find ALL of the mafia interesting.
Plus, like I said before, he has come up its VERY GOOD INFO previously...


What bothers me is you can't tell me what he made up. Yet knowledge of it is so widespread among posters? Okay, I'll ask again, what was the magic moment where it was like aha!! Can you elaborate for me a little?

I can't just let something like that go, EXPLAIN THE INCIDENT TO THE BOARD, . Cause like I said, I'm not on all the forums...





I already told you, he used fake names of mobsters for some strange reason, he's desperate to be considered to have inside knowledge, he's from California yet knows the ins and outs of all families lol it was a while ago so I can't remember the details but it was embarrassing, he left the forum for a while, went to the black hand forum where he got exposed again for his bullshit and got ran off, now he's back posting here again.

I don't care if he has knowledge of the history of LCN, pretty much everything modern day he makes up.

'EXPLAIN THE INCIDENT TO THE BOARD' lol the only one needs explaining to is you, everyone else knows about it.

Carry on beleiving him and making yourself look a fool
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:17 PM

This is a post by SinatraClub regarding what he did.....

He did it again on GBB. Again back to the whole Luciano being slapped the Camorra situation and his names not matching actual sources, he claimed there was FBN documentation of testimony, which explained that the Chiofano brothers were the culprits and that Pirozzi, who most sources attribute to being the Camorristi who slapped Luciano, was actually a witness on behalf of Luciano. I asked if he could provide any links to said testimony, he didn't. But he said "I point you to the June, 12th 1951 testimony of Steve "Cement" Zollo with FBN agent yada yada yada..." And I think it was Antitilliar who pointed out that Steve Zollo is a fictional character from a fictional book, by fiction writer Wu Ming. He sounded convincing until that was pointed out. And then when called out on it, he admitted that his source for everything was a character from a fictional book, by simply responding "Yep."

Like who does that?
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:19 PM

Then admitted to lying yet again on a different subject on the black hand forum, stating 'I lied, but I'm not a chronic liar' lol
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:22 PM

The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?



lol lol lol lol
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?


You tell me Moe, you signed up, then got ran off after attempting a few jokes.
Posted By: Holyoke

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:51 PM

I think it's human nature for most people to believe what they wanna believe. If a new poster makes a post about activity in a potential defunct city there are those that take that info and run with it. Others may see it as trolling and won't believe it, unless the Feds say so. It's also human nature for people to be skeptical and there's nothing wrong with that. New posters have to realize that not everyone is gonna take their word on something bc they grew up in a certain area, or know someone who might know someone. Like anything else, time will tell.
Posted By: Holyoke

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 07:53 PM

My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Just an observation from being on here for years. Regardless, I enjoy reading what people know or believe.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?


You tell me Moe, you signed up, then got ran off after attempting a few jokes.


Course I ran! I ain't letting no black guy give me a handjob.
Posted By: Holyoke

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:03 PM

What if he has soft hands?
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:05 PM

Exactly, Im not blind to that at all and everyone is free to think Im lying.
Most of my intel comes from cops and just being around different circles, bars, restuarants, etc. then determining what is probable on my own and understanding how and why the Mafia operates here in general and telling you all. Im not directly linked to any Buffalo family member and dont want to be. Knowing what goes on in your hometown is because its your hometown. This is a small city where everyone knows each others business. Applying basic math allows me to come up with the claim that this family is viable.
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:11 PM

It has long been rumored that the Ciminellis have ties to the Buffalo family.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/09/22/nine-charged-bombshell-state-corruption-case/
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?


You tell me Moe, you signed up, then got ran off after attempting a few jokes.


Course I ran! I ain't letting no black guy give me a handjob.


Only white guys then?
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:31 PM

Ciminelli was close to Nicoletti
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
The Black Hand?

Is that the website where members must get a handjob from a black guy as part of the initiation process?


You tell me Moe, you signed up, then got ran off after attempting a few jokes.


Course I ran! I ain't letting no black guy give me a handjob.


Only white guys then?


I thought the name of the site was a metaphor for something. I didn't think you would literally have to receive handjobs from black men with vascular hands - but hey, whatever you're into!
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:46 PM

Tommy is correct.

Giacomo is a troll who writes fiction for kicks.

He was repeatedly questioned regarding his 'sources' at BH and patently exposed as a troll who literally bandies fiction for fact.

I have no dog in the fight nor a personal grudge or agenda.
It's simply disappointing he gets poor souls to believe his tripe.

But I guess they themselves are somewhat responsible as some people believe what they want.

I also think it's suspicious that 'Rooster' who has 'street' knowledge claims not to know any members personally yet seems to know the hierarchy of a secret society and when they have making ceremonies, what crews are active etc etc

And he coincidentally joins as the thread was created.

YAWN.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 08:53 PM

And I've no interest in getting into back and forth on the subject.

Believe him or don't. It matters little to me.

But you'd be doing yourself a favour by simply requesting sources for his various 'contributions'.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 09:02 PM

Its a secret society now? In 2016? The whole existence of this forum is to talk about shit that is known about this secret society that isn't secret anymore. YAWN

I talk to people in the know all the time, including cops some who are relatives. Again, Buffalo is a small city where everyone knows everyone's business. I do not personally know any made members but due to talks with cops, people on the fringe, being in and out of restaurants, bars, cafes, etc. etc. Im telling you what I believe to be true. Ya know, kind of like this forum and all its speculators but in real life?

That making ceremony was talked about in various circles many times over for years, this stuff isn't a secret.

I know nothing about Rochester personally, I know there is no made guys that reside in Syracuse and I know that a city of 50k (Utica) is definitely not more active than Buffalo, so coincidentally you can have 2 million comments on this forum your assumption that the family is dead or no one knows anything other than the FBI makes me YAWN on this snow filled Sunday
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 09:04 PM

Sources? ok no problem, Ill make sure to get notarized affidavits from all of them and possible see if they'll take a lie detector test that I can show you the results of because of the belief that you validating my stories means something to me.
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 09:18 PM

Thanks, Alexandarns. Never heard of that James Caan flick. Buffalo mob in the '60s. Even if it's bad it's probably good.
Posted By: faffy444

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 09:46 PM

rooster, good work. keep it up and keep us all informed moving forward.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/20/16 10:45 PM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
And I've no interest in getting into back and forth on the subject.

Believe him or don't. It matters little to me.

But you'd be doing yourself a favour by simply requesting sources for his various 'contributions'.


This was concerning Giacomo for clariafication.

EDIT:

IE
Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Source, New York State Troopers Bureau of Organized Crime report.


There's no such thing.

Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 12:33 AM

There is however a NYS Organized Crime Task Force
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 12:34 AM

Statewide offices, one of which happens to be in Buffalo
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 04:24 AM

Bye, see you all in a little over four years.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:09 AM

@ Tommy

Dude, that's all I asked for in the first place, a little clarification. I even specifically asked for SOMEONE to call him out in my Paolo Gambino thread. There was fuckin silence, so don't hold it against me too much....I said multiple times, I've never been on the other forums, and really am not familiar with all this shit. Just like I didn't really get all the beef with Scott until someone explained it to me.

This guy Rooster seems legit, but it took a legit buffalo resident to call him on his shit and expose him. But you called HIM a liar too. I've seen that pattern before, wanted to be sure this wasn't another "Detroit".

And on the California, expert of all thing, I hear you, but if you listen to a guy like Ivey he will,swear to you it means " diddly squat" lol. So I kinda got your point there, but that perspective has been attacked on here before like, well anyone can research and know as much as a resident, blah, blah...

All you guys seems to know each other from multiple forums, even multiple forum NAMES, I don't, don't assume everyone just knows all this, hell I don't even u understand such nonsense.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:13 AM

Also I feel compelled to add, ARNT YOU SUPPOSED TO BANNED FOR SHIT LIKE THIS?

Like the fact he was still posting? Why was he allowed? If this shit was so known on the boards?
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:14 AM

It took no time for Chech to get banned, (for some personal attack) and people were actively saying Moe shoulda got a vacation too.

This shoulda been made a priority no?

Yeah, it's definitely time for a break from this.....
Posted By: Faithful1

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 07:00 AM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
This is a post by SinatraClub regarding what he did.....

He did it again on GBB. Again back to the whole Luciano being slapped the Camorra situation and his names not matching actual sources, he claimed there was FBN documentation of testimony, which explained that the Chiofano brothers were the culprits and that Pirozzi, who most sources attribute to being the Camorristi who slapped Luciano, was actually a witness on behalf of Luciano. I asked if he could provide any links to said testimony, he didn't. But he said "I point you to the June, 12th 1951 testimony of Steve "Cement" Zollo with FBN agent yada yada yada..." And I think it was Antitilliar who pointed out that Steve Zollo is a fictional character from a fictional book, by fiction writer Wu Ming. He sounded convincing until that was pointed out. And then when called out on it, he admitted that his source for everything was a character from a fictional book, by simply responding "Yep."

Like who does that?


There was a lot more that he got caught and/or admitted to making up.

People come on this forums to learn or to share information, but every now and then someone comes along who misleads readers with bogus stories that never happened. That is Giacomo_Vacari.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 08:55 AM

@ Tommy

This situation reminded me of this one here......


http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=868092&page=1

Now notice, Mighty is a regular poster, but HE was unaware of the new Bronx poster. And right away, it's he's a Troll, or lying. But only a Bronx guy could REALLY vouch for the guy. Also notice by the end of the thread, NO ONE BUT THESE TWO BRONX GUYS EVEN KNOWS WHAT THE HELL IS BEING SAID.

That's what this reminded me of..... I was thinking it was a repeat situation. Plus, just with all the regular bullshit that goes on on here.... I'm like, ooh here we go....
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 01:17 PM

I don't buy anything Giacomo Vacari says. I also find Rooster's date of registration annoyingly suspicious. If Buffalo is active then I'd love to see some reliable sources for once. Just once.
Posted By: m2w

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 03:50 PM

i wouldn't be surprised if the buffalo family is really still active and viable, at least on the canadian side (hamilton/niagara falls)
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: m2w
i wouldn't be surprised if the buffalo family is really still active and viable, at least on the canadian side (hamilton/niagara falls)


Its the reason why I open the thread.
At least isnt viable but with some made men still active. Who are is the problem.
Posted By: m2w

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 04:09 PM

hamilton was a crew of the buffalo family and the italian mafia is very strong there, so the canadian side probably took over what's left of the buffalo made men
Posted By: Scalish

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 04:16 PM

The Musitano brother's run Hamilton and have since they killed Papalia. The Buffalo crew based in Hamilton is dead.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Faithful1
People come on this forums to learn or to share information, but every now and then someone comes along who misleads readers with bogus stories that never happened. That is Giacomo_Vacari.


This.

That's why Tommy, myself, etc take pains call out posters like Giacomo.
There are several posters who, in this thread alone have bought the bullshit Giacomo peddles. And that's worse than some obvious obnoxious troll who can be recognized and discarded immediately, because he does it in such a deceptive, convincing fashion. That's why he's more dangerous. Again, look at just this thread.

Readers have a right to not be deliberately deceived.

@Cabrini: the mods here aren't fact checkers. They moderate inappropriate behaviour (swearing, abuse, threats etc). And that's not Giacomo's modus operandi. The mods at 'the other' forum are afficiados themselves and moderate deliberate abuse of content.
That's why he is here and not there.
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 04:46 PM


SonnyBlackstein I would elect you to be the watch dog. You seem the most level headed person on this site.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 05:11 PM

Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 05:25 PM

To balance things:

I have been accused of having duplicate accounts by one poster.
I have been accused of sending insulting private messages by another poster.
I have been told to commit suicide by two different posters. (Which is a despicable thing to say. There are hundreds of people using this forum and I would be shocked if nobody here knows someone who has been affected by something like this).
I have been abused because of my ethnic background several times by several posters.

And it's these same posters who got me banned from Black Hand or Real Deal (I can't remember which one).

Now I'm a big boy. If a moderator thinks my behavior is inappropriate and gives me a warning, I will change my behavior.

But what I think is a shitty thing to do is to ban someone for no reason because one or two idiots are carrying a grudge from one site to the other.

And I have no doubt in my mind it's the same xenophobic, racist, hate filled people aforementioned who got me banned from that site.

I personally commend the moderators here for the way they handle things.

They have no tolerance for bullying, bigotry or racism and they try to keep things civil.

People may think my jokes are shitty as hell but I firmly believe there is room for both humor and seriousness when discussing the mafia. The world of the mafia is full of gallows humor; full of vibrant, vivid characters who are like something from a novel. Jerry Capeci's articles are a mix of comedy and seriousness. George Anastasia's books are like a black comedy. The Sopranos was a mix of drama and black comedy for goodness sake!

People need to lighten up!

As for Giacomo, I have no dog in this race. I have no idea if what he is saying is true or not. But he is not the only local guy who posts information that cannot be verified.

I am not the most knowledgeable of posters though so I can see where other people are coming from.
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I have been abused because of my ethnic background several times by several posters.


That's terrible to hear. Just out of curiosity, what is your ethnicity? I always pictured a white man.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 05:41 PM

Originally Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I have been abused because of my ethnic background several times by several posters.


That's terrible to hear. Just out of curiosity, what is your ethnicity? I always pictured a white man.


I am white LOL. But it doesn't matter whether you are Irish, Italian, Jewish or Black. It's wrong to pick on someone because of where they come from and/or what they are.

Posted By: gangstereport

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Ciment

SonnyBlackstein I would elect you to be the watch dog. You seem the most level headed person on this site.


+1
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
It's wrong to pick on someone because of where they come from and/or what they are.


Who the hell is doing that in this dialogue?

People are commendably illustrating a posters deliberate misguiding fraudulent posts.

What the hell has that got to do with race etc?
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: gangstereport
Originally Posted By: Ciment

SonnyBlackstein I would elect you to be the watch dog. You seem the most level headed person on this site.


+1


Ha. Very kind. Appreciated.

But I'm too selfish to want to do that wink
Posted By: gangstereport

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 06:18 PM

@cabrini giamco I don't like how he makes things up purposdly misleading people done it so many times just something i have noticed i will give you a recent example that gangland news article i posted recently about that rat taking a beating he first claims it was a cop who beat the rat up that capeci lied. So I ask him how do you know and a simple question why would a cop beat up a known informant in Little Italy? in he cant tell me why just claims he knows what happened says his sources told him i press him for details he cant tell me why reason its bullshit he has no sources he just made it up.

That's just a recent example I have noticed it a lot I don't normally say anything but what sonny is right its wrong he is purposely misleading people

But your right I try to stay out of the arguments on this site and you know you saw it yourself the petty shit people gave me when I first joined the site so this is the only post I will make about this subject not going to argue with people on the internet. As for the new guy I have no idea if he is telling truth he could be legit I will listen to what he says and make my own judgement I am in agreement with you i am not going to start claiming he is lier when i don't know the details if he is a bullshitter he will be found out eventually
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 07:47 PM

Moe crying about people picking on him for being Irish lol that's bullshit. People just see him for what he is, a no mark [BadWord] who spends his days on forums cracking terrible jokes.
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 08:36 PM

The piling on of Giacamo still seems suspicious. There's a lot of people here who spread false info and don't get nearly as much grief as this. Something else is going on. Perhaps some people know each other personally. Who knows? But there's no way this is all about getting facts wrong.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Moe crying about people picking on him for being Irish lol that's bullshit. People just see him for what he is, a no mark [BadWord] who spends his days on forums cracking terrible jokes.




Always funny seeing someone who has never stepped foot in America belligerently lecture Americans about the American mafia without any sense of irony.

Also funny how the guy who has accounts on at least 3 mafia forums is making fun of a guy because he has an account on 1 mafia forum.
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:09 PM

Longtime reader of the board articles,New on the site.Lifetime Queens,Brooklyn born n bred ! I have been to prison on 2 bids,numerous jail visits,fed bop and state. I'll put my two cents in here,Buffalo is far from on its last legs,as is Detroit !I've been around and there is literally TONS of guys,Made and associates everywhere ! I've lived upstate for a Lil while before moving back to the city because I was violated by Nys parole and sent back to the city.Nys, upstate towns and cities are very corrupt and Traditional OC is EVERYWHERE !! They are involved in legitimate business in every shape and form and in every Industry imaginable.There are other problems the feds deal with on a regular basis and just because there are no Rico cases,indictments does not mean OC is not there.During the 1980s and 1990s where traditional OC was public enemy #1 and brought to its knees all the Crime families were stabilized and operating at a high level here in 2016 ! Whether you believe it or not Buffalo is Alive and very well ! They have adapted and operate in a similar but very different fashion .The days of the celebrity,Hollywood gangster BS are long gone , No more crazy whacked out Cowboy shit going on !! The American Mob grew way too big and out of control and needed to be shut down ! I grew up in John Gotti country, Ozone pk and that Moron really destroyed everything for everyone.The feds actually have no clue how many Made guys are out there with all those BS charts they put out ! Smfh, Lmfaoo !! Everything today is White collar, Exploited to no end.Everything is Computers,internet ,web based !! Gambling,Shy and protection rackets are gigantic believe it or not and they not only involve Italians, or other whites, but now they are exploiting other ethnic groups, Mexicans,Arabs , etc . Drugs are HUGE WITH the Italians right now as is working relationships w Street gangs, Bloods,Crops,Latin Kings etc ! Everyone is working together these days unlike ever before, The MC's ! Its endless ! In my opinion, OC is making more money than ever ! Buffalo has never been close to dead !! Today, there's more making ceremonies than ever, On record and on the sneak !
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:13 PM

Longtime reader of the board articles,New on the site.Lifetime Queens,Brooklyn born n bred ! I have been to prison on 2 bids,numerous jail visits,fed bop and state. I'll put my two cents in here,Buffalo is far from on its last legs,as is Detroit !I've been around and there is literally TONS of guys,Made and associates everywhere ! I've lived upstate for a Lil while before moving back to the city because I was violated by Nys parole and sent back to the city.Nys, upstate towns and cities are very corrupt and Traditional OC is EVERYWHERE !! They are involved in legitimate business in every shape and form and in every Industry imaginable.There are other problems the feds deal with on a regular basis and just because there are no Rico cases,indictments does not mean OC is not there.During the 1980s and 1990s where traditional OC was public enemy #1 and brought to its knees all the Crime families were stabilized and operating at a high level here in 2016 ! Whether you believe it or not Buffalo is Alive and very well ! They have adapted and operate in a similar but very different fashion .The days of the celebrity,Hollywood gangster BS are long gone , No more crazy whacked out Cowboy shit going on !! The American Mob grew way too big and out of control and needed to be shut down ! I grew up in John Gotti country, Ozone pk and that Moron really destroyed everything for everyone.The feds actually have no clue how many Made guys are out there with all those BS charts they put out ! Smfh, Lmfaoo !! Everything today is White collar, Exploited to no end.Everything is Computers,internet ,web based !! Gambling,Shy and protection rackets are gigantic believe it or not and they not only involve Italians, or other whites, but now they are exploiting other ethnic groups, Mexicans,Arabs , etc . Drugs are HUGE WITH the Italians right now as is working relationships w Street gangs, Bloods,Crops,Latin Kings etc ! Everyone is working together these days unlike ever before, The MC's ! Its endless ! In my opinion, OC is making more money than ever ! Buffalo has never been close to dead !! Today, there's more making ceremonies than ever, On record and on the sneak !
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
The piling on of Giacamo still seems suspicious. There's a lot of people here who spread false info and don't get nearly as much grief as this. Something else is going on. Perhaps some people know each other personally. Who knows? But there's no way this is all about getting facts wrong.


He does it in such a methodical way, it's all very detailed and almost sounds true at times. That's why a lot of people are upset, cause he is able to confuse people who are still learning about this subject. The guy is not your average bullshitter. Don't be surprised if he gets pursued a little more aggressively than others. There's nothing suspicious about it.
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MrJustsayNo
Buffalo has never been close to dead !! Today, there's more making ceremonies than ever, On record and on the sneak !


You're so bad at trolling.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Moe crying about people picking on him for being Irish lol that's bullshit. People just see him for what he is, a no mark [BadWord] who spends his days on forums cracking terrible jokes.




Always funny seeing someone who has never stepped foot in America belligerently lecture Americans about the American mafia without any sense of irony.

Also funny how the guy who has accounts on at least 3 mafia forums is making fun of a guy because he has an account on 1 mafia forum.


Not making fun of you for posting on here. Just the fact that most of your posts are awful jokes and not even mafia related, why are you even on this forum? I post on here and The Black Hand you got kicked off there. Who am I lecturing? I'm calling out a known troll in Giacamo.
Posted By: Faithful1

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
The piling on of Giacamo still seems suspicious. There's a lot of people here who spread false info and don't get nearly as much grief as this. Something else is going on. Perhaps some people know each other personally. Who knows? But there's no way this is all about getting facts wrong.


Sounds like a conspiracy theory. I doubt if anyone in this topic personally knows another poster. The fact is that Giacomo Vacari is being called out not for "getting facts wrong," as you understate it, but for being deceptive and intentionally misleading people.

If I write that John Gotti is still alive and I meant to write John Gotti Jr., that's a mistake, an error. It's not something that's intentional, and when brought to my attention I correct it.

What Vacari does is mix known information with made-up stories as if they were facts, and does so intentionally. That's known as a hoax or fraud. It's like a certain poster from a while back who claimed he was Chuckie English's nephew, but wasn't. When the truth comes out they lose all credibility. In Vacari's case he didn't just fabricate stories one time, he's done it several times.

Why does it matter to me? Because I've busted my ass off doing real research, traveling across the country, making contacts, and spending money trying to put the facts out about certain topics or people. I do that because I want people to know the facts and the truth, so yes, it pisses me off when someone comes along and casually spreads lies like a sociopath or a narcissist seeking attention and posters and readers who don't know enough believe him because he sounds knowledgeable. They are basically being conned. I don't defend con artists.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto
Originally Posted By: MrJustsayNo
Buffalo has never been close to dead !! Today, there's more making ceremonies than ever, On record and on the sneak !


You're so bad at trolling.


+1000.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 09:48 PM

@ faithful.

Very well put.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/21/16 10:33 PM

Listen, this is ridiculous now. I gave my input on Buffalo. Hamilton has not taken over whats left of Buffalos made men. Mr Just say no id trolling for sure. What I gave this board in insight is what info is on the streets of Buffalo
Posted By: Chicken713

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 12:29 AM

You know I don't have many post and only been here for two years but, it's surprising how many new people popped up these past months. Is that normal?

When I first started I never saw anybody new and now everyday there is a new poster. I don't have room to talk just was curious if that is a normal thing or, maybe because RD is down.

Edit: almost two years
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 01:24 AM

This is funny,I've been reading these boards/Posts for a while now and decided to post something for the first time,I have no clue who anybody is other than reading what people post .But honestly I have never posted on anything in my life on a computer !
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 01:50 AM

It is really hilarious though to pick up a newspaper and read these articles or go on the computer and see that the majority of the people they have pegged as made,associate,boss,UB is so wrong and so far off.The Majority of this shit LE states is outright wrong on every front ! Upstate NY is overloaded with traditional OC, Albany,Utica,Syracuse,Rome,Orange county,liberty,Monticello,Rome,Oneida,Malone,Washington ville,blooming grove,ramapo,Yorktown heights, etc etc ! Shit has not changed in over 50 plus years ! Legitimate biz,shy,bookmaking,casino style gambling is literally everywhere and most of the Labor unions in the upper tier,capitol region,downstate are still majorly influenced and controlled by OC and their companies.It makes no difference to me,But that Rooster guy definitely knows what he's talking about,Buffalo is Alive and Well ,There are plenty of young guys up there and nothing has changed dramatically except demographics,People adapt and carry on .
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 02:03 AM

'm from NYC,so I have nothing to gain ! The Colombo's have a huge presence up there,as do Genovese,Gambino !And all that BS with the Colombo Bros. Being separate from the family and not kicking up is also funny too, Chris is like fucken Napoleon up there in Orange county and surrounding areas with a small army , His brother Anthony was always in Buffalo,tonawanda,Rochester etc with the Buffalo guys,young n old and held sway ! And contrary to what people think and say, Pennsylvania, Scranto,Wilkes Barre, Knuckletown has a nice size Genovese crew including guys from Michael Genovese's Pennsylvania faction no one has ever heard of, And there's no info online about ! Its really funny how all these people claim this or that is dead and gone !
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 02:15 AM

And can somebody please, WTF is Trolling ?? Sorry but I'm computer illiterate, I don't do FB, social media or anything
Posted By: SinatraClub

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 02:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
The piling on of Giacamo still seems suspicious. There's a lot of people here who spread false info and don't get nearly as much grief as this. Something else is going on. Perhaps some people know each other personally. Who knows? But there's no way this is all about getting facts wrong.


Sounds like a conspiracy theory. I doubt if anyone in this topic personally knows another poster. The fact is that Giacomo Vacari is being called out not for "getting facts wrong," as you understate it, but for being deceptive and intentionally misleading people.

If I write that John Gotti is still alive and I meant to write John Gotti Jr., that's a mistake, an error. It's not something that's intentional, and when brought to my attention I correct it.

What Vacari does is mix known information with made-up stories as if they were facts, and does so intentionally. That's known as a hoax or fraud. It's like a certain poster from a while back who claimed he was Chuckie English's nephew, but wasn't. When the truth comes out they lose all credibility. In Vacari's case he didn't just fabricate stories one time, he's done it several times.

Why does it matter to me? Because I've busted my ass off doing real research, traveling across the country, making contacts, and spending money trying to put the facts out about certain topics or people. I do that because I want people to know the facts and the truth, so yes, it pisses me off when someone comes along and casually spreads lies like a sociopath or a narcissist seeking attention and posters and readers who don't know enough believe him because he sounds knowledgeable. They are basically being conned. I don't defend con artists.


So freaking well said. I remember when I had called him out on it, I couldn't find the words to explain to explain why I was being so harsh on him, but you put it perfectly well. He mixes lies and bullshit with factual information, in an effort to intentionally mislead people and spread false information. I also feel it's a slap in the face to guys like yourself, whom have researched and give all us inspiring mob researchers insight into so many things related to LCN.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 03:57 AM

Originally Posted By: MrJustsayNo
And can somebody please, WTF is Trolling ?? Sorry but I'm computer illiterate, I don't do FB, social media or anything


It means you've got mental health issue Giacomo.
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 04:42 AM

Originally Posted By: MrJustsayNo
'm from NYC,so I have nothing to gain ! The Colombo's have a huge presence up there,as do Genovese,Gambino !And all that BS with the Colombo Bros. Being separate from the family and not kicking up is also funny too, Chris is like fucken Napoleon up there in Orange county and surrounding areas with a small army , His brother Anthony was always in Buffalo,tonawanda,Rochester etc with the Buffalo guys,young n old and held sway ! And contrary to what people think and say, Pennsylvania, Scranto,Wilkes Barre, Knuckletown has a nice size Genovese crew including guys from Michael Genovese's Pennsylvania faction no one has ever heard of, And there's no info online about ! Its really funny how all these people claim this or that is dead and gone !


Just give it up little man. No one buys anything you say anymore. It's not even remotely funny. You went from being a rather unique bullshit artist to someone people feel sorry for lol.
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 04:45 AM

There is Absolutely NO WAY POSSIBLE for LE to know how many made guys there are, Theyre nowhere close to what they claim.And that's especially true for Buffalo , But what do I know ? On the other hand,Something unrelated to this post, They claim the Bonnano family is falling apart,decimated,this n that and all the other nonsense you read from these historians,columnists,LE BS .The Bonnanos are like fucken Cockroaches, They have been making guys NONSTOP for like the last 7-8 years, They have KIDS literally,in Howard Beach, Middle village,Maspeth,ozone park,Glendale that have been made in the last 3 years that are no older than 23-24 years old, There's 2-3 that are about 21 , There are rumors from everyone of them making 18 year olds ,And I'm from the area and I've seen it , There's newly minted Captains that are no older than 24 that are unknown with 6-7 soldiers each ! So I know as fact,and take those charts and BS with a grain of salt !
Posted By: Holyoke

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 06:35 AM

Hey Mr., is it true the Bonanno's are recruiting kids that haven't gone through puberty yet?
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 08:14 AM

The information Giacamo's given me about Northern California that I've checked up on has checked out. I'm not saying the accusations against him aren't valid, I'm just giving my .02 based on my experiences with him. I've had no problems with him.
Posted By: SinatraClub

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/22/16 11:43 PM

Don't confuse rehashed material from Jimmy Frattiano books as information that only Giacamo was privy to.


And lol @ 24 year old captains being the majority.
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 12:45 AM

His name came up SinatraClub, but the information I provided to OakAsFan, would not be found in the weasels book, and can be verified by real research and not just by googing. Faithful1, that was not aimed at you or a few other respected researchers on here.
I am not those posters either.
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 03:27 AM

MRjustsayno I hear lA nova pizzeria needs A dishwasher.
Posted By: Binnie_Coll

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 03:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
The piling on of Giacamo still seems suspicious. There's a lot of people here who spread false info and don't get nearly as much grief as this. Something else is going on. Perhaps some people know each other personally. Who knows? But there's no way this is all about getting facts wrong.


Sounds like a conspiracy theory. I doubt if anyone in this topic personally knows another poster. The fact is that Giacomo Vacari is being called out not for "getting facts wrong," as you understate it, but for being deceptive and intentionally misleading people.

If I write that John Gotti is still alive and I meant to write John Gotti Jr., that's a mistake, an error. It's not something that's intentional, and when brought to my attention I correct it.

What Vacari does is mix known information with made-up stories as if they were facts, and does so intentionally. That's known as a hoax or fraud. It's like a certain poster from a while back who claimed he was Chuckie English's nephew, but wasn't. When the truth comes out they lose all credibility. In Vacari's case he didn't just fabricate stories one time, he's done it several times.

Why does it matter to me? Because I've busted my ass off doing real research, traveling across the country, making contacts, and spending money trying to put the facts out about certain topics or people. I do that because I want people to know the facts and the truth, so yes, it pisses me off when someone comes along and casually spreads lies like a sociopath or a narcissist seeking attention and posters and readers who don't know enough believe him because he sounds knowledgeable. They are basically being conned. I don't defend con artists.


very well said faithful, and I know for a fact you do RESEARCH VERY WELL, you are the real deal. you remember the guy that wrote that mob book- alex hortiss, "the mob and the city" he was on here and he said that you were a true researcher- you and he had discussions.
Posted By: Faithful1

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Binnie_Coll


very well said faithful, and I know for a fact you do RESEARCH VERY WELL, you are the real deal. you remember the guy that wrote that mob book- alex hortiss, "the mob and the city" he was on here and he said that you were a true researcher- you and he had discussions.


Thank you Binnie, and others, I appreciate the kind words. The point is that I'm interested in facts and truth, and the intentional spreading of misinformation is the enemy. I suggest to everyone who thinks or guesses that he or she knows something, but you're not sure, just admit you don't know instead of claiming things that may not be true. Don't jump to conclusions.
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 09:00 PM

It really is Funny how people will believe anything they are told, By, The Media,The historians,The columnists, The SO CALLED EXPERTS,and even Law enforcement !! People who were a part of this Lifestyle, Who grew up in the neighborhoods, who were around know what goes on ! The Mob, Traditional OC is alive and well, and has been for a very long time !! They have endured,adapted,and learned ! All this pure BS by guys like Selwynn Raab and others is fucken hilarious to no end !! These people wouldn't know a real OC FIGURE,GANGSTER Or whatever you wanna call em if they were sitting across from them at a dinner table having a conversation with them and a meal !! Law enforcement, The same thing ! They have a target,a job to do, they zone in on a TARGET and investigate ! Because, someone was scared and made a call, there was an arrest, or a few other reasons !! Law Enforcement agencies I guess talk it over and say to themselves hey guys we're gonna go out and search high and low for OC FIGURES and OC ACTIVITY !! OR THE College professors who are from the streets and know all this pure BS !! Yes, we know ,we know , The Buffalo Family just all said, hey guys no more of this TRADITION,NO MORE OF THIS LIFESTYLE,NO MORE MAKING GUYS,NO MORE SCAMS, NO MORE SHY,NO MORE LEGIT,NO MORE DRUGS,WE WILL ALL GO HOME,OH HOW MANY OF US MAFIA GUYS ARE THERE ,UMMM UHHH ONLY 12 OF US LEFT, OH OK , IN THE NEXT 2-4 YEARS WE WILL PACK IT IN,RETIRE WITH ALL OUR MILLIONS,OR RETIRE BROKE,WITH ALL OUR TRADITIONS AND EVERYTHING ELSE,HEAD DOWN TO COSTA RICA, AFTER WHAT, HOW MANY YEARS, UHHHH ,70 YEARS IN BUSINESS AS THIS MAFIA,THIS FAMILY, WE'RE BEATEN,THE FEDS,THE COPS, LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS BEATEN US AFTER 70-80 YEARS IN BUSINESS,LETS CALL IT A DAY GUYS,WE'LL LEAVE ALL FUTURE RACKETS,SCAMS,AND ALL THIS MONEY ON THE TABLE,IN CASINO AND SPORTS GAMBLING AND WE'LL RETIRE TO THE FUCKEN VATICAN,I HEARD ITS A GREAT FUCKEN LITTLE COUNTRY, WE'LL HANG OUT WITH THE FUCKEN POPE AND COLLECT DONATIONS THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN RETIREMENT !! OHHHH WTF SAL, WHY DID YOU MAKE THOSE GUYS, SAL WTF, HEYYY, SAL MADE 12 GUYS IN THE LAST 4 YEARS ,HOLY JESUS FUCKEN CHRIST SAL ,YOU MADE FUCKEN 12 FUCKEN GUYS OHHHH AYYYY, ANTHONY WTF, I THOUGHT SAL GOT THE MEMO WE'RE ALL RETIRING, LEAVE ALL THE MONEY ON THE TABLE, GIVE IT TO THE CHINESE,THE PUERTO RICANS,BLACKS,MEXICANS AND DONT FORGET THE FUCKEN CAMBODIANS ! UNBELIEVABLE !!!
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 10:18 PM

Just say no - Youre really foaming at the mouth but if you claim you know whats what in Buffalo, Ill give you a chance to verify to all of us, whats the popular restaurant on the river?
Posted By: CTamg63

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/23/16 11:21 PM

Appreciate the contributions rooster i was born in Yonkers and moved to southern Connecticut when i was 15 so most of my family is between Ct Ny and Jersey so i dont know shit about the mob in buffalo but its not unbelievable to me that theres still a small family operating to an extent in that area seems like plenty of money to be made ive been up there on a few occasions with a friend of mine to do some business with a cousin of his that lives up there needless to say had a great lunch up there at a place called the red coach inn i think it was been a couple years so i might be off qith the name on that one but had a great dinner at a italian joint up there Michaels its been around for a while i guess the food was excellent there was six of us and we had a great time i would definetely go back if i was up that way again anyways i enjoy your posts i dont think anything major is up there but i believe a small family is still making moves and with the italian population and the willingness of alotta young guys these days i bet if they wanted too they could probably make some guys thats just my 2 cents i could be totally wrong u just got me thinking when i saw your post about the restaurant i thought about when we used to go up that way . HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE BB AND YOUR FAMILIES!!!
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/24/16 12:27 AM

Small indeed, but viable and not dead. Still a structure, still making money and still capable of violence. If this wasnt such a heavy Italian region wed be talking about it like it was Pittsburgh or Cleveland, etc., etc. but it is. Happy Thanksgiving
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/24/16 05:44 AM

Originally Posted By: The_Rooster
Small indeed, but viable and not dead. Still a structure, still making money and still capable of violence. If this wasnt such a heavy Italian region wed be talking about it like it was Pittsburgh or Cleveland, etc., etc. but it is. Happy Thanksgiving


but pitt and cleveland both have more italians then buffalo so there goes that analogy
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/24/16 07:44 PM

Watched about a half hour of the James Caan movie so far, Hide In Plain Sight. Pretty good. Acting's a little cheesy (except Caan, of course) but it's a good story and the on location shots of Buffalo are awesome. The only full movie link on youtube has french subtitles but they're not too much of a distraction.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/24/16 09:20 PM

Strocos - what are you on drugs? Buffalo/Niagara has more, get educated brother
Posted By: Alfanosgirl

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/24/16 11:36 PM

lol Lmao Who pulled that guy's string?
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/25/16 12:09 AM

lol im good, just funny to me how some guys are on this board. What do I know though
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/25/16 02:58 AM

Originally Posted By: The_Rooster
Strocos - what are you on drugs? Buffalo/Niagara has more, get educated brother


just check the us census data , next time I am in Ny we can meet at pg's club if u want
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/25/16 03:06 AM

Ok, Im going to go and check the US census data right now and report back to you. Can you meet at pgs tonight or this weekend to go over the data I find?
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/26/16 07:12 AM

Originally Posted By: The_Rooster
Ok, Im going to go and check the US census data right now and report back to you. Can you meet at pgs tonight or this weekend to go over the data I find?


what club is it ?
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/26/16 01:57 PM

You should know if you ask someone to meet you there no?...how about 3 tomorrow?
Posted By: MrJustsayNo

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/27/16 12:35 AM

OC in today's day and age operates on a totally different from 20-30 years ago due to advancements in Technology and most of all ,RICO STATUTE !! They have adapted,Learned,shifted from what used to be.They were hammered by RICO and they were basically a 2nd government almost,At one time they almost rivaled the U.S. Government and operated at the highest levels uninterrupted for many many years,Finally the RICO statute is invented and passed and the Mob was brought down to manageable levels ! Its literally Insane at the Raw Power,and ,Levels they were able to reach.But,in No way is OC gone from Buffalo,Detroit,or many of these cities,communities ,States that these MORONS would lead people to believe ! There are many many other matters Law enforcement and the Media have to deal with today,And, This isn't the 1980s or 1990s , How the fuck is there supposed to be BIG HEADLINES ? These guys are not Idiots,They learned big time, and you need certain elements to build RICO CASES !! They know what brings Heat ! They operate the way they were supposed to, in silence, quietly money over violence ! And when people say, Only GAMBLING AND SHY !! WHAT FUCKEN WORLD DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN ? ARE YOUIN THE TWILIGHT ZONE ? SPORTS GAMBLING ALONE RIVALS,IF NOT BIGGER THAN THE DRUG GAME !! In THE U.S.ALONE SPORTS GAMBLING IS A 200-300 PLUS BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR BUSINESS,PROBABLY MORE AS IT IS ESTIMATED THAT U.S. RESIDENTS ILLEGALLY WAGER OVER 300 BILLION ALONE ON ONE GAME IN ONE SPORT, THE SUPERBOWL !! THE GLOBAL DRUG MARKET ANNUALLY IS PEGGED AT JUST OVER 350 BILLION !! I ALSO POSTED THREADS ON THE TEAMSTERS AND LABOR UNIONS IN U. S.OVER THE LAST 16 YEARS AND IT IS SUPPOSEDLY MORE CORRUPT NOW THAN IN THE SO CALLED MOB HEYDAY/GOLDEN AGE, 2000 PLUS CASES,INDICTMENTS IN A 9 YEAR PERIOD 2001-2010 !! OH, AND I GUESS AFTER 70-80-90-100 PLUS YEARS,TRADITIONS,HONOR,VALUES,A WAY OF LIFE AND ALL THAT MONEY TO BE MADE THE FAMILIES JUST RETIRED AND PACKED IT IN !!
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 11/27/16 10:28 AM

Read this here...


http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/biggest-illegal-businesses-business-crime_slide_2.html

And there was recently a European report released, and even though it was incomplete, drugs was tops there too....

I might make a thread on this. Sports gambling IS NOT BIGGER THAN DRUGS. Jesus Christ, only like NY region people think this. Drugs is THE business of OC, in this day and age.

There is a reason the government legalized numbers. Everyone from a regular worker to housewives plays the numbers. Maybe even multiple times a day, 365 DAYS A YEAR!!!! Not half the year for football season, or basketball, or just the weekends.

And let's talk about weekends. You really think there are MORE people betting' than say, dancing their life away at some club with a gram of coke? And remember, I'm talking women as well as men here. And even the age demographic has to be considered. I can guarantee you there are more kids, in either high school or college trying to get some loud, or coke, or a pill, or even a fuckin cigarette ( Illinois recently raised the age to 21, think of the bootleggers who sell cigs on the street, or even to legal distributors) than trying to place a bet. This is something Saviano touches on in his book. Drugs aren't limited to just one sector of society anymore. You remember on the Sopranos when the daughter was doing speed to get into college? That's the shit I mean. You have ANY idea how many upper-middle class to rich kids I know who study on Adderall? Just tonight, my guy, a high class type, his sister had Two weddings, one overseas, all kinda money spent on renting a mansion, just bullshit. Dude, All the chicks wanted Xanax. ( however you spell it lol) And all his best customers for loud are like these college educated types that live in the loop. They buy like fuckin clockwork.

Not that sports don't bring it in, but come on now. Guns make more. Oil makes more. Counterfeiting makes a fuckin ton. I honestly think that estimation is off,but if you got stats to back you up, I'm all ears. ( Or eyes, in this case lol)

Edit: Here's an article that sort of echoes how I see it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/sp...335c_story.html

But look, I could be wrong about this. It just seems like the world is awash in drugs.

To me it seems like they shoulda legalized it a long time ago, look at the race wire and the aforementioned lottery. Like it seems to me the teams must be MUCH MORE TIED INTO THE GAMBLING RINGS THAN IS REALLY REPORTED. WHY would they lobby to KEEPit illegal? Why leave all that money on the table. Look at fantasy sports in NY. It got to big to ignore, what's the deal with sports books?

There was a thread about mob ties to the NFL, there might be nore to this than people realize, otherwise it actually makes very little sense...
Posted By: antimafia

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/17 06:37 PM

Ron Fino posted on Facebook the article link below:

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi-says-buffalos-mafia-family-ceased-operations/
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/17 11:47 PM

Good article. I'm going to have to go to La Nova Pizzeria if I'm ever in Buffalo.
Posted By: SinatraClub

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/20/17 01:05 AM

Hoping to see a washed up wiseguy or two?
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/20/17 06:16 AM

Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Hoping to see a washed up wiseguy or two?


Why not? And get a good pizza, while i'm at it. The article says that the success of this pizzeria is one of the reasons these guys got out of crime.
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/20/17 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Good article. I'm going to have to go to La Nova Pizzeria if I'm ever in Buffalo.


its decent pie. not sure i go out of my way to get it. But Todaro jr is a very nice guy.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/18 01:33 AM

WOW this back and forth about Buffalo has been going on for like 6 Months?
CRAZY
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/18 01:38 AM

Who rehashed this? Anyhow, yes, these Buiffalo wiseguys actually got out of the life because their pizza business was so successful. Have to try this place.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/18 01:45 AM

I don't think I re-hashed this

I kinda walked into it with out knowing this has been going on for months

I seen Roosters posts and Giacomo's posts and they seem packed with good solid information.

I never was on any forumn before and am new to this one.

I went back and read a bunch of posts from people on here accusing Giacomo of all sorts of bad stuff.

What is your opnion?

LOL not about the Pizza I agree....
Where i am from hands down best PIZZA in the world..

It seems you were leaning both ways

Seems you were first leaning towards not believing Giacomo then it looks like you change your mind

???
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/18 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I don't think I re-hashed this
I seen Roosters posts and Giacomo's posts and they seem packed with good solid information.


Just to note, there is no evidence to either of those user's posts. I am not saying explicitly that it is not true, just that there is no evidence to it.


Also, the argument on the other thread starting with a discussion about defunct families. I mentioned that Buffalo, along with many other families, was not thought to be an active family, and Rooster called me "delusional" lol
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 03/19/18 05:16 AM

I have no problems with Giacomo. He's the most helpful person here when it comes to west coast information. The pieces of his information that I've googled check out. Some of it I eventually read about in books or articles. Some people were accusing him of applying content from a fictional movie to information in one of his comments. I looked at the comment they were talking about and it seemed rather trivial. So, meh.

Anyhow, if I'm ever lucky enough to visit Buffalo, I 'll have to check out this pizzeria. These guys got out of the rackets to run this place. That's how successful it is. People must be lined up down the block.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/02/18 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by CTamg63
Appreciate the contributions rooster i was born in Yonkers and moved to southern Connecticut when i was 15 so most of my family is between Ct Ny and Jersey so i dont know shit about the mob in buffalo but its not unbelievable to me that theres still a small family operating to an extent in that area seems like plenty of money to be made ive been up there on a few occasions with a friend of mine to do some business with a cousin of his that lives up there needless to say had a great lunch up there at a place called the red coach inn i think it was been a couple years so i might be off qith the name on that one but had a great dinner at a italian joint up there Michaels its been around for a while i guess the food was excellent there was six of us and we had a great time i would definetely go back if i was up that way again anyways i enjoy your posts i dont think anything major is up there but i believe a small family is still making moves and with the italian population and the willingness of alotta young guys these days i bet if they wanted too they could probably make some guys thats just my 2 cents i could be totally wrong u just got me thinking when i saw your post about the restaurant i thought about when we used to go up that way . HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE BB AND YOUR FAMILIES!!!

Michael's on Pine Ave. in Niagara Falls--best Lasagna ever!
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/02/18 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by OakAsFan
I have no problems with Giacomo. He's the most helpful person here when it comes to west coast information. The pieces of his information that I've googled check out. Some of it I eventually read about in books or articles. Some people were accusing him of applying content from a fictional movie to information in one of his comments. I looked at the comment they were talking about and it seemed rather trivial. So, meh.

Anyhow, if I'm ever lucky enough to visit Buffalo, I 'll have to check out this pizzeria. These guys got out of the rackets to run this place. That's how successful it is. People must be lined up down the block.


It really is unbelievable how busy they are at the West Ferry location. Great Pie!!
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 02:56 AM

yes, nuts. Not my favorite, I go Francos over La Nova
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 02:56 AM

Fortunas in the Falls is good, Como fell off in my opinion about 5 years ago
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 11:32 AM

https://www.cosanostranews.com/2017/11/is-buffalo-cosa-nostra-family-mafias.html

Is Buffalo Cosa Nostra Family the Mafia's Dark Horse?

Based on a recent bust involving members of the Gambino and Bonanno crime families in which more than a dozen alleged members and associates of organized crime were arrested as part of a sweeping investigation into the fentanyl trade in Canada and New York, it seems the Buffalo crew is alive and well.

Or was....

The following information was sent from a source.

In indicates that the Buffalo crime family is definitely larger and more organized than many have believed.

Last week's bust no doubt has taken a toll on the crime family. Yet who'd have guessed its heft? And if could be big, who else is thriving in the US, off the radar....?

Boss
Frank BiFulco

Underboss
Joe Violi (Canada Faction)

Consigliere
Victor Sansanese

Capos
Frank Falzone-
Buffalo,
Six soldiers, took over BiFulco crew.

Anthony Todaro
Buffalo,
Eight soldiers, took over when his brother Joe Jr retired.

Natale Luppino
Hamilton, Canada,
Nine soldiers, took over crew when Violi was moved up to Underboss, who in turn had taken over when Vincent Luppino passed away in 2009.

Bruno Monaco
Toronto, Canada
Five soldiers, took over when Dante Gasbarrini passed away. Gasbarrini became Capo when Paul Volpe was killed, and to get away from Giacomo Luppino and John Papalia of Hamilton.

Russell Carcone
Utica
Six soldiers

Loren Piccarreto/Anthony Chirico- Rochester,
Five soldiers.

When Thomas Marotta came back in the 1990's, he decided to join the Bonanno family and took half of the independent family with him to the Bonanno family. After what happened up in Hamiliton with John Papalia, Rene Piccarreto decided to be more friendlier with Buffalo. When Joe "Lead Pipe Joe" Todaro retired in 2006, Angelo Amico decided to rejoin the Buffalo Family.

Robert Panaro
Las Vegas
No soldiers, Panaro is direct with the family administration and other capos.

"About 12 to 15 members are retired," our source noted.

So about 40 made members are still active in Buffalo.

In light of all the busts and heat, that's something, you ask me.....
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 04:36 PM

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.it/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false

1. Amoia-Sam
2. BiFulco-Frank 1945
3. Brindisi-Pasquale Paddy 1942 Utica
4. Cannizzaro-Annunzio Red
5. Carcone-Russell 1954 Utica
6. Cardinale-Ronald
7. Caruso-Corrado Cookie Canada
8. Chimera-Robert 1936
9. Cipolla-Paul Canada
10. Corelli-Phillip 1963- Utica
11. Criminisi-Ralph Canada
12. DePaolo-Bruno Bronzie 1967 Canada
13. DePaolo-Joseph Joey Dips Canada
14. DePaolo-Michael Canada
15. Falzone-Frank 1950
16. Feliciano-James 1977 Utica
17. Ferraro-Frank 1943 Utica
18. Gasbarinni-Daniel Canada
19. Giglia-William 1946
20. Inserra-Anthony 1946 Utica
21. Italiano-Dominic Canada
22. Lombardo-Vincent Canada
23. Luppino-Anthony Canada
24. Luppino-John Canada
25. Luppino-Natale Canada
26. Luppino-Rocco Canada
27. Mambrino-Carmen 1969
28. Marino-Frank 1940 Utica
29. Minicone-Jack 1948 Utica
30. Monaco-Bruno Canada
31. Nappi-Donato Dan 1943
32. Papalia-Frank 1930 Canada
33. Papalia-Rocco 1935 Canada
34. Perri-Frank Canada
35. Pugliese-Anthony Canada
36. Pugliese-Joseph Canada
37. Pugliese-Pasquale Canada
38. Randazzo-Joseph
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hollander
It has long been rumored that the Ciminellis have ties to the Buffalo family.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/09/22/nine-charged-bombshell-state-corruption-case/


@Hollander.... Yes, most people in Buffalo believe that the Ciminellis were connected to the Buffalo mob. Some still believe they are. Louis P. Ciminelli was named, along with several other made members and associates of the Buffalo Crime Family, in a lawsuit agains that LIUNA Local 210 pension fund where he served as a trustee. Here is the quote from the top of a court document:

Quote
SOUTHMARK PRIME PLUS, L.P., a Delaware Limited Partnership; SOUTHMARK EQUITY PARTNERS III, LTD., a California Limited Partnership; SOUTHMARK INVESTMENT GROUP 86, INC., a Nevada Corporation; and PRIME PLUS CORP., INC., a Nevada Corporation, Plaintiffs, v. LEONARD F. FALZONE; BUFFALO LABORERS' PENSION FUND; LABORERS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA, LOCAL #210; REALCAP COMPANY, a Texas General Partnership; QUANTUM REALTY CORP., a Delaware Corporation; CONCAP MANAGEMENT L.P., an Illinois Limited Partnership; WILLIAM R. ARNOLD; SALVATORE J. CACI; LOUIS P. CIMINELLI; JOHN A. DOYLE; PETER G. GERACE; EDWARD D. HERRICK; JAMES C. LOGAN; TERRY L. MOEBEL; JOSEPH R. PIERI; ROBERT C. PATTERSON; and DANIEL J. SANSANESE, Defendants

Civil Action No. 91-127-JLL

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE

776 F. Supp. 888; 1991 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 15426; Fed. Sec. L. Rep. (CCH) P96,448


This was a Securities Law and RICO case. The document goes on to state:

Quote
JAMES LATCHUM, SENIOR UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

This is an action brought by two real estate limited partnerships and their managing general partners against a host of defendants, alleging [**2] violations of the federal securities laws and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act ("RICO"), arising from a threatened proxy contest. This is not the first suit between the parties, and possibly not the last. The facts of this case are involved and will be addressed in greater detail infra at section II.A.


The whole document can be found here: CIMINELLI involved in Local 210 RICO

Additionally Ron Fino definitely identifies Louis' father, Frank as "connected" in some fashion. I think it is safe to assume his son Louis was "connected" as well. Here it the quote from his book The Triangle Exit:

Quote
By now we had developed good alter-ego cases against around 20 western New York contractors and we were getting ready to file a legal suit against them. Joey Pizza and Leonard Falzone compelled me to drop the cases against Ciminelli Construction and Frank Ciminelli, who was connected, and the Mader Corporation run by Lawrence Reger (a Buffalo businessman indirectly controlled by the family) who made a fortune for the mob cleaning up the Love Canal hazardous waste. Falzone spoke in a nice manner, which was rare, “You know they are connected Ron and know that their construction companies are off limits.”

Fino, Ronald; Michael Rizzo. Covert Operations: The Triangle Exit: The True Story of a Secret Undercover Operative for the FBI and CIA (Organized Crime) (Kindle Locations 2825-2827). Contento De Semrik. Kindle Edition.


Does this mean Louis is still connected?

If the family is dead... There is your answer.

If by chance the family is active, then there is at least a possibility he is connected given the Buffalo Billion Scandal. One thing is clear, he learned how to act like LCN and do some bid-rigging when he served as at trustee of mobbed up 210 in the 90's.

Here is a picture of Frank "Bucky" Ciminelli (right) with Magaddino drug trafficker Philip Napoli (left) in Reno in 1972. I believe this picture is further evidence that Fino is correct in his indication that Frank "Bucky" Ciminelli was connected.

This picture was given to me by Buffalo area Lawyer William Gary Iannaccone whose mother is in it. He believes they were laundering money invested in bonds from his Dad's VA pension. His uncle Joseph Pezzino (see quote below) was a made member of the Buffalo Crime Family.

[Linked Image]

Here is what Iannaccone states:
Quote
John Mallon, my long-time friend, who worked for the IRS, reviewed the evidence including the IRS Returns; pictures of my mother in Las Vagas in 1972; forged Prudential check made out to me cashed at the M&T Bank with my mother signing my name & my Uncle Joseph Pezzino as second endorser & Affidavit by Evelyn Jimerson (nee Cenname) (former married name Harcrow) (subsribed on 3/29/04) verifying her knowledge of my father and mother's legal separation, the 65 wills made by Arthur F. Musarra and that one million dollars in US Bonds belonging to my father-derived from his VA disability funds from 1945 -1972- was transferred to my mother in 1972.
(PLEASE see Harcrow Affifdavit below in comments)
John Mallon said the most likely scenario is that the million dollars was laundered in a casino with my mother's permission and the aid of her cousin Phil Napoli in 1972, by reporting it as gambled away by me using my SS# on the 1972 IRS returns.
My father's funds were then allegedly invested into Samuel's Grande Manor in 1978 http://SamuelsGrandeManor.com
Please See Chronology of Evidence for Million Dollar Recovery
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.it/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false

1. Amoia-Sam
2. BiFulco-Frank 1945
3. Brindisi-Pasquale Paddy 1942 Utica
4. Cannizzaro-Annunzio Red
5. Carcone-Russell 1954 Utica
6. Cardinale-Ronald
7. Caruso-Corrado Cookie Canada
8. Chimera-Robert 1936
9. Cipolla-Paul Canada
10. Corelli-Phillip 1963- Utica
11. Criminisi-Ralph Canada
12. DePaolo-Bruno Bronzie 1967 Canada
13. DePaolo-Joseph Joey Dips Canada
14. DePaolo-Michael Canada
15. Falzone-Frank 1950
16. Feliciano-James 1977 Utica
17. Ferraro-Frank 1943 Utica
18. Gasbarinni-Daniel Canada
19. Giglia-William 1946
20. Inserra-Anthony 1946 Utica
21. Italiano-Dominic Canada
22. Lombardo-Vincent Canada
23. Luppino-Anthony Canada
24. Luppino-John Canada
25. Luppino-Natale Canada
26. Luppino-Rocco Canada
27. Mambrino-Carmen 1969
28. Marino-Frank 1940 Utica
29. Minicone-Jack 1948 Utica
30. Monaco-Bruno Canada
31. Nappi-Donato Dan 1943
32. Papalia-Frank 1930 Canada
33. Papalia-Rocco 1935 Canada
34. Perri-Frank Canada
35. Pugliese-Anthony Canada
36. Pugliese-Joseph Canada
37. Pugliese-Pasquale Canada
38. Randazzo-Joseph


@ Furrio have you seen Joseph Pezzino listed as a made man on any of the Buffalo Crime Family lists?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 05:50 PM

Quote
@ Furrio have you seen Joseph Pezzino listed as a made man on any of the Buffalo Crime Family lists?


No but I found this William Gary Iannaccone facebook page that said that "my maternal Uncle Joe Pezzino & cousin Phil Napoli in 1972 who were in the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia"
https://www.facebook.com/notes/will...mbezzledlaundered-us-savin/120153771040/
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Quote
@ Furrio have you seen Joseph Pezzino listed as a made man on any of the Buffalo Crime Family lists?


No but I found this William Gary Iannaccone facebook page that said that "my maternal Uncle Joe Pezzino & cousin Phil Napoli in 1972 who were in the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia"
https://www.facebook.com/notes/will...mbezzledlaundered-us-savin/120153771040/


I have a link to him interviewing relatives who indicate Joe Pezzino was made. Makes me think Buffalo was larger than some say, given the fact that these names are never mentioned. Makes me wonder how many more there were!

EDIT:
BTW, not to rain down a firestorm from the Buffalo haters, but Iannaccone believes Buffalo is still viable and the Ciminelli's are still connected. Take that for what its worth, because admittedly he has an axe to grind--that doesn't make him wrong though.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Fortunas in the Falls is good, Como fell off in my opinion about 5 years ago


@ Rooster: Como still has a mighty fine angel hair in vodka sauce. Yum!!
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/03/18 07:46 PM

Great stuff guys. Ill try the angel hair with vodka next week, you better not steer me wrong lol
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Great stuff guys. Ill try the angel hair with vodka next week, you better not steer me wrong lol


Let me know what you think.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 09:35 PM

Here is a little history on Joey Todaro III—Joseph “Big Joe” Todaro Jr’s son. It has long been said Joey Todaro III has never been involved in the rackets. However, there is evidence he was involved, at least as an associate, in the telemarketing schemes the mob ran in the city during the ‘90’s. Here is a quote from a Buffalo News article from 1993, just before Joey got married to Dana Panepinto:

Quote
Buffalo telemarketing companies also include sons and grandsons of mobsters and others known to associate with organized crime figures:

Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.


Here is the whole article. It is very interesting with a lot of info:

Quote

RAIDS ON TELEMARKETING FIRMS FIND NUMEROUS TIES TO ORGANIZED CRIME

By MICHAEL BEEBE AND DAN HERBECK | Published June 27, 1993

When the FBI raided the offices of Very Impressive Products, a company affiliated with RFG Enterprises, they found evidence of what they had suspected in Buffalo's telemarketing industry -- ties to the Buffalo mob.

VIP's checking accounts were used for employee payrolls, as well as for paying the company president, Rocco F. Guadagna, and another man, Frank BiFulco, FBI agents were told.

Guadagna had been a bartender at Mulligans Cafe through the mid-1980s, living in a $41,000 two-family home in North Buffalo. Since starting his own telemarketing company in 1988, he now heads an $11 million-a-year business and lives in a $250,000 home in Clarence.

Although Guadagna never has been tied to organized crime, BiFulco is identified by the FBI as a longtime soldier in the Todaro crime family in Buffalo and one of the local mob's wealthiest members.

On a salary of about $60,000 a year as an administrator of Laborers Local 210 health and pension fund, "Butchie BiFocals," as he is known, drives a 1992 Mercedes Benz and a 1987 Jaguar, docks a cabin cruiser on the Niagara River and owns considerable real estate in Buffalo.

BiFulco, 48, has no public connection to the telemarketing business, but a number of checks made out to him from VIP, which are now in the FBI's possession, leaves investigators with the strongest link yet about the mob's involvement.

"Frank BiFulco is not an owner of the company," said Guadagna's attorney, Thomas C. D'Agostino. He refused to discuss why company checks would be made out to BiFulco, other than to say "there is absolutely nothing wrong." Yet sources said BiFulco is not the only member of organized crime in Buffalo involved in telemarketing.

Gaetano "Tommy Chooch" Miceli, 65, named by the FBI as a member of the local mob council as long ago as 1975, is associated with New Life Marketing at 1444 Hertel Ave., law enforcement sources said.

John Catanzaro, 50, is associated with the same company, these sources said. Catanzaro, a former steward for Laborers Local 210, also has been identified as a member of organized crime. He reached a plea agreement in 1989 and admitted he accepted money in a no-show scheme.

Buffalo telemarketing companies also include sons and grandsons of mobsters and others known to associate with organized crime figures:

Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.

"He does not hold a position nor does he hold any ownership interest in Logik Enterprises," said Robert L. Boreanaz, Logik's attorney.

Frank Tripi, whose father was acquitted of murder and mob-related gambling charges, is listed in state records as Logik's president.

BiFulco's 15-year-old stepson, Carmen Gallo, a Lafayette High School student who was killed by drug dealers last month, was a salesman at Logik. After his killing, Logik employees flooded the East Side with their business cards and offers of a $20,000 reward in the slaying.

Samuel Amoia Jr., the grandson of former Buffalo mob boss Sam Pieri, is secretary-treasurer of LoMoia Enterprises at 1300 Hertel Ave. Amoia served a prison term for dealing cocaine in 1988. His brother Joseph faces cocaine charges in Las Vegas.

Michael A. Muscarella, the president of New Life Marketing, has been arrested for gambling. Muscarella is best known as the owner of the vehicle that police say was used as a getaway car in the 1978 shooting of mobster Billy Sciolino.

Joseph Mosey Jr., described by Buffalo police as an associate of organized crime figures, was one of the city's first telemarketers and was accused of defrauding customers in New York, California and Vermont through his Allied Publishers Services. Police say he has tutored many of Buffalo's younger telemarketers. Mosey formerly owned Bison Chrysler-Plymouth with Robert Sciolino, Billy Sciolino's brother.

Larry Panaro, vice president of North American Enterprises, at 3673 Delaware Ave., faces trial in Las Vegas on money laundering charges. His cousin, Victor, is serving a life sentence on drug and murder convictions. Las Vegas police said Larry Panaro boasted that he had family connections to the Buffalo mob.

Steve Sacco, a principal in Promotions Unlimited, is the son of former Buffalo police officer Richard Sacco and nephew of the late John Sacco, a mob associate who was briefly an FBI informant against the mob. Steve Sacco was arrested for burglary and drug possession in Las Vegas in 1989 while he was making more than $70,000 a year in telemarketing. He paid a $990 fine. Sacco's father, Richard, was dropped from the Police Department after the FBI recorded him telling his brother John the best ways to perform a contract killing.

Vincent Spano is the manager of North American Enterprises. Spano is a convicted gambler who has been linked to the mob by the FBI. The federal government seized the Washington Square restaurant, owned by Spano's father-in-law, because it was used for gambling.


Copied this from what I posted on the Buffalino thread. Might do this with some other posts I posted on that thread that are related to the history of the Buffalo Crime. family.

A little more on Joey... It seems the feds were interested in possible mobsters on his guest list. I'd like to know who they were. I've heard, but have no proof, that the Musitano's and the Papalia's/Violi's were there from other mob bulletin boards. Here is more info about the wedding from an article titled OFF MAIN STREET, written in September 1993 in the Buffalo News by a staff writer:

Quote
Undercover wedding guests

Did Madonna really turn up at the Labor Day wedding reception of Buffalo restaurateur Joseph Todaro III and Dana Christine Panepinto, former captain of the Buffalo Jills?

No, but a lively Madonna look-alike, part of a troupe of entertainers from New York City, was among the main attractions at the gala reception at Samuel's Grande Manor in Clarence, following a ceremony at St. Gregory the Great Catholic Church in Amherst.

"It was like a Vegas sideshow, fantastic entertainment," said one guest of the reception.

"It was great, a beautiful wedding. I thought at first she was the real Madonna," said one guest.

The guest list reportedly topped 900, including some government officials, prominent attorneys and priests, but not counting security guards, who were there carrying radios.

The Buffalo FBI office has been taking an interest in the guest list for months because Todaro III is the son of Joseph Todaro Jr. and grandson of Joseph Todaro Sr.. The two elder Todaros have long been alleged by authorities -- but never proven in any courtroom -- to be leaders of Buffalo's Mafia family.

"It was a very tasteful ceremony and a fun reception," said one Buffalo businessman who was there. "No Godfather stuff, nothing heavy-handed. The centerpieces of the wedding were the bride and groom, which is exactly the way it should be. I believe the FBI had agents out there taking license plate numbers, but I didn't see them."

When asked if agents were there, Buffalo FBI spokesman Paul Moskal said he could not comment.
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 10:06 PM

If anyone from North Buffalo fill me in this would be greatly appreciated...my barber is an old school Sicilian with his shop on Hertel. He is My barber nearly my entire life. As a little kid in the 90's I vaguely remember him being involved with gambling possibly in the back of his shop. Am I going crazy or do I remember correctly
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
If anyone from North Buffalo fill me in this would be greatly appreciated...my barber is an old school Sicilian with his shop on Hertel. He is My barber nearly my entire life. As a little kid in the 90's I vaguely remember him being involved with gambling possibly in the back of his shop. Am I going crazy or do I remember correctly


There were a lot of old barbers back in the 90's. I went to D'Anna when ever I was in town back then, after he died, I went to Sandy in Niagara Falls. I can only think of Conti and Rosati you might be thinking of, Conti passed away before D'Anna, and Ducky passed away over a decade ago.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 11:35 PM


I would doubt the Musitanos to be at his wedding. I have heard that Carifagna put a good beating on one of the brothers some time right before the 97 murder
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/04/18 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster

I would doubt the Musitanos to be at his wedding. I have heard that Carifagna put a good beating on one of the brothers some time right before the 97 murder


Did you see the reception was at Samual Grande Manor in Clarence? That was opened by a made man named Joseph Pezzino with money from the Iannaccone Family that was laundered by with the help of Frank "Bucky" Ciminelli. See my previous post on Ciminelli in this thread.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/05/18 01:06 AM

Yep, saw that:)
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/05/18 01:07 AM

Louis is still really close with them and Sansanese to a lesser degree.
Posted By: antimafia

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 12:46 AM

In the article to which I've linked below, what parts and quotes do posters disagree with? agree with?

Or is the article merely derivative?

Buffalo blues — last rites for the mob in Queen City

http://torontosun.com/news/world/crime-hunter-buffalo-blues-last-rites-for-the-mob-in-queen-city/
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 01:52 AM

All of the arguments youre looking for, either for or against them being viable has been discussed thoroughly on this thread and the Bufalino thread extensively for the last two years up until a week ago.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 02:07 AM

Thanks for bringing this article to our attention. It is a reworking of a number old Buffalo News articles (especially the March 2017 article) with an old Niagara Falls Reporter mixed in. There is no new information here. He indicated the FBI said the family is “as extinct as a traveler pigeon.” Notice that is not a quote in his article, just his flowery summation of what Agent Cohen told the Buffalo News in March 2017. I would have liked it if he actually interviewed Cohen/Coppola/Gyrta/ and others in Buffalo instead of rehashing old articles. Even more, he should have addressed why the Canadian papers were quick to indicate members of the Todaro Crime Family were arrested in the Otremmens operation. He should have tried to square his article with those. I think his paper the Sun actually mentioned the Todaro Crime Family arrests too.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 02:29 AM

The Sun is like the NY Post, a bunch of hot air from poached news stories and only a moderate level of credibility
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by antimafia
In the article to which I've linked below, what parts and quotes do posters disagree with? agree with?

Or is the article merely derivative?

Buffalo blues — last rites for the mob in Queen City

http://torontosun.com/news/world/crime-hunter-buffalo-blues-last-rites-for-the-mob-in-queen-city/


It is recycled info already out there. I really think the sun is like the daily mail. One thing that is really over looked by many is the mob guys have sons, nephews, daughters, nieces, and sisters who rub shoulders with the Outlaws. Buffalo and Niagara falls are pretty much hubs for drugs, I know the outlaws MC has chapters in Niagara Falls, Buffalo and Rochester.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 11:23 AM

Giacomo, what does that have to do with viability of the family?
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 12:10 PM

http://torontosun.com/news/world/crime-hunter-buffalo-blues-last-rites-for-the-mob-in-queen-city

CRIME HUNTER: Buffalo blues — last rites for the mob in Queen City
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/06/18 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Originally Posted by WhackWhack
If anyone from North Buffalo fill me in this would be greatly appreciated...my barber is an old school Sicilian with his shop on Hertel. He is My barber nearly my entire life. As a little kid in the 90's I vaguely remember him being involved with gambling possibly in the back of his shop. Am I going crazy or do I remember correctly


There were a lot of old barbers back in the 90's. I went to D'Anna when ever I was in town back then, after he died, I went to Sandy in Niagara Falls. I can only think of Conti and Rosati you might be thinking of, Conti passed away before D'Anna, and Ducky passed away over a decade ago.


No my barber is alive and well....I don't want to name names but it's the barber shop near Caruso and Terrapin. He shares the same last name as the capo gunned down in the early 70s... is that his son? I was always curious but never had the balls to ever talk about it, especially when I'm pretty sure made men would be siting there all day hanging around. I'm technically first/second generation Sicilian-American and can understand the language. These old gray haired men sitting in the empty barber seat werent just talking weather...but again this is 20+ years ago.
Posted By: strococs

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 04:10 PM

The buffalo borgata made 5 new guys at the annual Xmas party . The most they made in a single cermoney since prohibition . The best part of being made in buffalo is you get all you can free eat at all the la nova locations . Drinks are not included unless you bring your own cup. Also in late 2017 the buffalo family absored Cleveland and Pittsburgh . Todaro jr is the boss , joe loose iackbacci is the underboss , Sony ciancutti is the consigliere , William dileno has been upped to captain of Cleveland he was also give a la nova franchise to open in Cleveland area , russel Papalardo is considered a special advisor in Semi retirement , so he only gets 50 percent off on pizzas ,
Posted By: Friend_of_Henry

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by strococs
The buffalo borgata made 5 new guys at the annual Xmas party . The most they made in a single cermoney since prohibition . The best part of being made in buffalo is you get all you can free eat at all the la nova locations . Drinks are not included unless you bring your own cup. Also in late 2017 the buffalo family absored Cleveland and Pittsburgh . Todaro jr is the boss , joe loose iackbacci is the underboss , Sony ciancutti is the consigliere , William dileno has been upped to captain of Cleveland he was also give a la nova franchise to open in Cleveland area , russel Papalardo is considered a special advisor in Semi retirement , so he only gets 50 percent off on pizzas ,

What makes me think that this was written "Tong in Cheek"?
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 07:25 PM

So Bifulco isnt in the top of the hierarchy anymore?
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by strococs
The buffalo borgata made 5 new guys at the annual Xmas party . The most they made in a single cermoney since prohibition . The best part of being made in buffalo is you get all you can free eat at all the la nova locations . Drinks are not included unless you bring your own cup. Also in late 2017 the buffalo family absored Cleveland and Pittsburgh . Todaro jr is the boss , joe loose iackbacci is the underboss , Sony ciancutti is the consigliere , William dileno has been upped to captain of Cleveland he was also give a la nova franchise to open in Cleveland area , russel Papalardo is considered a special advisor in Semi retirement , so he only gets 50 percent off on pizzas ,


That info is a little outdated Strococs, the last couple of months they are expanding ever further.. Word on the streets is, that since March the GTA 'Ndrangheta families are under the control of the Todaro family and that they are well on their way to tighten their choke-hold on the Canadian capital and its surrounding areas as in the days of Maggadino..


Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 08:14 PM

I love the fact two years later you guys are still flamers. Very impressive.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
I love the fact two years later you guys are still flamers. Very impressive.


Nobody's flaming anything pal.. If you can't take these jabs at your totally unsubstantiated claims, get your ass out of the kitchen, ya cry baby..
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/09/18 09:27 PM

Im good over here, no crying. I was honestly giving a compliment. 2 years later is impressive, in all seriousness
Posted By: Nitro

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 03:35 PM

Sometimes we just need to change our perspective.

Buffalo Police Department have a Nacro and Homicide Squad. Both Units typical don't build OC case's.
They also have Special Units:
Housing Unit
Strike Force (dissolve 2018 )
@ http://buffalonews.com/2018/02/09/b...ce-unit-put-focus-on-community-policing/
@ http://www.investigativepost.org/2017/09/20/buffalo-police-who-cross-the-line/77
The focus obviously is not in the combat / research / analysis of OC structures.

General BPD have his own problems.
"Though the police appropriation has ballooned to $133 million of the city’s total $500 million operating budget, the department has a dismal record of solving crimes – only eight of the 38 homicides committed in Buffalo last year have been solved."
@ https://news.littlesis.org/2018/01/...ckered-history-and-a-city-hall-contract/

After that we have FBI, Attorney General's Organized Crime Task Force (OCTF) and State Police



Posted By: Nitro

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 03:57 PM

OCTF and State Police

Working on OC/RICO for example
@ https://www.casino.org/news/police-...oan-sharking-operation-in-new-york-state

Organized Crime Task Force (OCTF) - Buffalo do more Drug/Gang Stuff. Like this
@ https://www.wnypapers.com/news/arti...wicyL6Gx9fMAhVW4WMKHWr7AXcQqQIIRzAN&

So i think for a not-violent (not much killings) OC structure. To small for a big FBI case you have good chance to fly under the radar. Even Chicago has seldom big FBI cases.

Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 03:57 PM

Good finds Nitro and welcome to the board
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 04:00 PM

Good finds Nitro and welcome to the board
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nitro
OCTF and State Police

Working on OC/RICO for example
@ https://www.casino.org/news/police-...oan-sharking-operation-in-new-york-state

Organized Crime Task Force (OCTF) - Buffalo do more Drug/Gang Stuff. Like this
@ https://www.wnypapers.com/news/arti...wicyL6Gx9fMAhVW4WMKHWr7AXcQqQIIRzAN&

So i think for a not-violent (not much killings) OC structure. To small for a big FBI case you have good chance to fly under the radar. Even Chicago has seldom big FBI cases.



The thing is, Chicago is still big enough to be consistently busted. There have been five Outfit busts since 2010 - two of them have included made members, but the busts that haven't included made members have still been confirmed by the feds to be Chicago Outfit-related busts.


But what you said is very true, Nitro. So to make the argument that Buffalo is active is to make the argument that they don't have any illicit money-makers worth investigating, any capable structure worth investigating, any crews worth investigating. In all, for the FBI to completely ignore them, they would have to be weaker than a street gang (because the FBI regularly busts street gangs with racketeering indictments).
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 08:33 PM

It depends on priorities and what one considers to be worth it, both as a law enforcement agency and as bloggers. Street gangs typically commit murder and disrupt public peace and safety, the modern day Mafia does not. And in Buffalo, street gang racketeering indictments are rare regardless.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/10/18 10:55 PM

I read that Maggadinos funeral was attended by few fellow mobsters and no national bosses.
Though I am critical of published articles by "journalists", if true its surprising that he was able to hold onto power for so long if he was disliked so much.
Posted By: Nitro

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/11/18 01:08 PM

@Nicky

"they don't have any illicit money-makers worth investigating, any capable structure worth investigating, any crews worth investigating. In all, for the FBI to completely ignore them, they would have to be weaker than a street gang"

That’s not exactly my point.

I think the US don't care for traditional (White) complex OC networks (Philly and NYC are mostly murder/gambling cases.). So i don't know if LCN are active in Buffalo.
But I’m sure if they active they can do allot without trouble. Street gang are more sociological problem with a lot media attention. If they had a choice between a violent group (without much power) or a quiet (local) Crew (involved in some Blue & White dollar crime). I'm sure they take the gang shit.

Maybe old LCN family are death, but the high Ndrangheta & Cosa Nostra activity over the border makes it very likely for me they also have someone in Buffalo. But i don't know.
The old family structure can also evolve. Maybe if we look for Boss and Underboss we commit a mistake.

In my opinion a good barometer are people they live there. Beneficial employed in nightlife, construction or the food industry. Of course this people can talk bullshit.
I will become suspicious if it gets too detailed.

Another point FBI and other agencies are interested in transnational groups.
"The TOC Strategy recognizes that organized crime is no longer associated exclusively with traditional domestic groups, but is now fully
Transnational in its origin, composition, and scope and poses unprecedented threats to the United States’ national and economic security. "
@ https://www.justice.gov/jmd/file/821331/download

But i think we should be carefully, because FBI talks a lot.
FBI told us Ndrangheta had 200 active members. I have not heard of a single case.
In my opinion fight against Middle Eastern groups is more a political stuff. I have not seen many cases.
For example the Lebanese-Montreal Drug case.
FBI talks about Hezbollah but everybody knows the guys are Christians. Some Christians parties are members of "March 8 Alliance" and Hezbollah it is too. This was the link. A absolute weak case. I'm not sure but I think it does not come to a court hearing.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/11/18 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Nitro
@Nicky

"they don't have any illicit money-makers worth investigating, any capable structure worth investigating, any crews worth investigating. In all, for the FBI to completely ignore them, they would have to be weaker than a street gang"

That’s not exactly my point.

I think the US don't care for traditional (White) complex OC networks (Philly and NYC are mostly murder/gambling cases.). So i don't know if LCN are active in Buffalo.
But I’m sure if they active they can do allot without trouble. Street gang are more sociological problem with a lot media attention. If they had a choice between a violent group (without much power) or a quiet (local) Crew (involved in some Blue & White dollar crime). I'm sure they take the gang shit.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.
There could be some old-time Buffalo family guys that are still active in gambling and loansharking. In fact, I'd be very surprised if some the bookmaking & loansharking isn't still active.
But a handful of Buffalo old-timers working independently in bookmaking and loansharking does not constitute an active crime family or a solid hierarchy.

Originally Posted by Nitro

Maybe old LCN family are death, but the high Ndrangheta & Cosa Nostra activity over the border makes it very likely for me they also have someone in Buffalo. But i don't know.
The old family structure can also evolve. Maybe if we look for Boss and Underboss we commit a mistake.

It's not a case of looking for a "boss and underboss." It's a case of looking for an active Mafia family that is, or succeeded, the Todaro crime family.
Not only is there no evidence of a present-day "boss and underboss," there is no evidence of any structure whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Nitro

In my opinion a good barometer are people they live there. Beneficial employed in nightlife, construction or the food industry. Of course this people can talk bullshit.
I will become suspicious if it gets too detailed.

I agree. Local, city, and region-based journalists are the best conveyors of that. Especially dedicated organized crime reporters, like Mike Hudson.
If everyone in the city agrees that the crime family is still active, than it wouldn't be possible for the Buffalo News to run a detailed, lengthy piece on how the Buffalo Mafia is dead and is never coming back.
And the Buffalo Mafia DID run such a story. Last year.

Originally Posted by Nitro

Another point FBI and other agencies are interested in transnational groups.
"The TOC Strategy recognizes that organized crime is no longer associated exclusively with traditional domestic groups, but is now fully
Transnational in its origin, composition, and scope and poses unprecedented threats to the United States’ national and economic security. "
@ https://www.justice.gov/jmd/file/821331/download

That means that if the Buffalo Mafia really does have a Canada connection to smuggle drugs, than that would be a huge target for the FBI.

Originally Posted by Nitro

But i think we should be carefully, because FBI talks a lot.
FBI told us Ndrangheta had 200 active members. I have not heard of a single case.

At least the FBI considers them a viable criminal enterprise... unlike the Buffalo mob.
Also there have been at least a handful of Ndrangheta cases in New York alone.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...nnection-italian-mafia-article-1.1609347
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...rs-cocaine-trafficking-article-1.3070463
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/16/18 07:29 PM

20 THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO MMM? ABOUT FORMER NY STATE SENATOR MARC PANEPINTO & HIS CONNECTIONS TO ARTHUR COIA, LIUNA NATIONAL, LOCAL 210, & THE BUFFALO MOB

1. Marc’s dad Donald “the Turtle” Panepinto was a made member of the Buffalo Crime family and heavily involved in the mob infested LIUNA Local 210. Before moving up the ranks, he was a member of the Sansenese crew-this according to Ron Fino in his Book The Triangle Exit (Kindle Location 916). He is listed as a solider in the 1997 Government RICO agains local 210. In August of 2016 The Buffalo Chronicle writes:

Quote
Donald “the Turtle” Panepinto was, reportedly, a member of the La Cosa Nostra crime family. He was heavily involved in the International Laborers’ Union as well.  Local 210 has been the subject of racketeering allegations for decades. The elder Panepinto was given his nickname, “Turtle,” because he gave his beatings slowly, sources tell me.

See also: Herbeck, Dan, “Union links 28 members of Local 210 to mob,” BN, June 19, 1996, p. B1; “Mob’s control of Local 210 has a long history,” BN, Dec. 5, 1999.

Here is a Picture of Donald “The Turtle” Panepinto:

[Linked Image]

2. According to Marc on his website “Panepinto for Senate” he and his brother Don joined local 210 as teenagers when they graduated high school. Here is the link: Marc Panepinto for Senate

3. Marc did his undergrad at the University of Buffalo in the mid to late 80’s. He was the captain of the UB football team in 1987. He went on to study Labor Relations at the University of Illinois, and remained a member of LIUNA. Supposedly he worked as laborer with 210 while putting himself through college and during the summers while at grad school. The Dolce Panepinto Law Firm writes:

Quote
Partner Marc Panepinto and his brother, attorney Donald Panepinto, are both members of Laborers’ Local 210 and spent years working on jobsites. Marc Panepinto also spent years traveling the country successfully organizing for the Laborers’ International Union of North America (LIUNA).


Here is a link to his bio at the Dolce Panepinto Lawfirm: http://www.dolcepanepinto.com/attorneys/marc-c-panepinto/

4. Dana Panepinto (Marc’s sister) married into the Todaro family (Joey III) in 1993. The Buffalo News writes:

Quote
Dana Christine Panepinto and Joseph Edward Todaro were united in marriage Monday at 3 p.m. in St. Gregory the Great Catholic Church, Amherst, by the Rev. Paul M. Nogaro. Donald and LucyAnn Panepinto of Town of Tonawanda are parents of the bride and the bridegroom's parents are Joseph and Carol Ann Todaro of Williamsville. A reception was given in Samuel's Grande Manor. The couple will travel in Europe before making their home in Buffalo. The bride is a graduate Kenmore East High School and Vidal Sassoon Academy, London, England. She and her mother operate New Image Hair Designers. The bridegroom attended University at Buffalo and is an operator of La Nova Pizzeria, owned by his family.


Here is a link to the article: Announcing Mrs. Todaro

5. At that time of their marriage Joey E. Todaro III was involved with the crime family’s collections & call center scams. The Buffalo News writes

Quote
Buffalo telemarketing companies also include sons and grandsons of mobsters and others known to associate with organized crime figures: Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.


Here is a link to the article in the Buffalo News: Joey Todaro III Tied to Organized Crime

6. In the early 90’s Marc Panepinto took a national role in LIUNA, becoming personal assistant to LIUNA president and mob associate Arthur Coia.—See the book The Maya of Morganton: Work and Community in the Nuevo New South, p. 127.

7. By the mid 90’s Marc became a member of the newly developed National Organizing Team for Arthur Coia and LIUNA. Maya of Morgantown pp. 79, 109-11.

8. It is well documented that both Joe Todaro, Sr. and Jr., the Buffalo Crime Family, and Local 210 had a strong relationship with the Coias. (See Fino’s Triangle Exit; Weekly Standard article A Corrupt Union and the Mob from August 31, 1998; The American Spectator article Mob Rules by Byron York in April of 1997; The Providence Journal article by Mike Stanton called “A Questions of Mob Connections” written in 1997…and many, many more.)

9. We can, almost, be certain it was the Todaro/Buffalo connection to the Coias that got Marc his job with Arthur Coia Jr. and we can could logically assume there was a “price” to be paid for that position—Marc would have to “serve the interests” of the Buffalo Crime family & the Coia’s.

10. Marc’s wife (Catherine Nugent Panepinto) was from Massachusetts, local hearsay indicates she had possibly Patriarca Crime Family ties. She was an organizer for LIUNA. That is where Marc met her.

11. Marc and his wife Catherine went to UB to get their law degrees in the middle 90’s

12. In 1998 Mark was sworn into the NY State Bar

13. In the late 90's Marc Panepinto served as chairman of the Laborers Information Coalition, established when the RICO charges instigated changes to clean up Local 210. See Buffalo Business first article “Enbattled Local 210 ready for a fresh start” by Tracey Drury dated January 26, 2006

14.In 2001 Marc was convicted of election fraud, forging signatures for and trying impress Mayor Masiello in order to get a city job for his brother Don as a firefighter. Here is a picture of a the letter his attorney, Joel Daniels, wrote to the judge stating such:

[Linked Image]

15. Mayer Masielo wrote a letter asking the judge to let Marc Panepinto off easy. The judge did. He only received a short suspension of his law license and a paltry $500 fine. Here is a picture of Masiello’s letter sent on behalf of Panepinto:

[Linked Image]

16. It was long believed that Mayor Masiello was connected or at least sympathetic to the Todaro’s and the Buffalo Crime Family. On La Nova’s back wall (West Ferry location) is a huge framed City/Mayoral Proclamation touting the Todaros and their commitment to the city of Buffalo. Mayor Masiello frequented La Nova raising the establishment's reputation in Buffalo. Here is just one article: Mayor Masiello Visits La Nova

Additionally Masiello created a lot of hubbub in Buffalo when Joe Todaro Senior died and he indicated Joe Todaro Sr. was “A Friend of Mine,” and had the following glowing comments as reported on WGRZ news in Bufallo:

Quote
Similar comments came from Anthony M. Masiello, the former Buffalo mayor who said Mr. Todaro had been a good friend of his for more than three decades.

“Joe Todaro and his family have made tremendous contributions to our community,” Masiello said. “There are always rumors and allegations about people, but from my dealings with the man and his family, I only saw good things.

“They’ve done a lot more for the needy of this community than people with pristine reputations. They helped out a lot of people with jobs at La Nova, and they never abandoned their roots on the West Side.”


17. Point 15 is taken from a Buffalo Chronicle article in August 2014 entitled, “For Panepintos, election fraud was a family affair.” Indeed one has to wonder if the Buffalo Chronicle is using a double entendre, referring not just to Marc’s immediate family but to his crime family association as well.

18. In another article from the Buffalo Chronicle in August of 2014 entitled, "Panepinto is not worried about his election fraud conviction, no bid legal work,” the paper writes:

Quote
Panepinto’s extensive involvement in labor organizing includes a longtime relationship with the mafia-affiliated International Laborers’ Local 210. Reporters have just begun digging into a jaw dropping history of racketeering allegations, in the midst of which both the elder and younger Panepinto find themselves.

Most political observers dismiss Panepinto as a “disgraced, wannabe Mafioso” who fancies himself as a Westsider, despite graduating from a leafy suburban high school and now married to a New York State Supreme Court Justice, Catherine Nugent Panepinto.


19. Marc Panepinto was elected to State Senate in 2014

20. Marc Panepinto abruptly announced he would not run again as JCOBE (joint commission and public ethics) began a corruption probe. Here is an article: Panepinto Will Not Seek Reelction Amids JOCOB Investigation

It should be noted that 6 months later Buffalo Billion Scandal is announced. It has made some folks in Buffalo wonder if he knew JOCOB was investigating more than sexual harassment allegations. People in Buffalo have wondered if he didn’t leave the senate in order to relieve the “heat” from him and others, just as Todaro Jr. and Leonard Falzone stepped from leadership in local 210 to remove the heat from them when the RICO began in the late ’90’s.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 02:24 AM

Wow, amazing job Nickle
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 02:26 AM

***joined the Union as teenagers***
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
***joined the Union as teenagers***


Yeah, and I remember somebody dismissing your comment on Frank Falzone who is Leonard’s brother too. They wrote:

Quote
Wiseguys don't have law degrees, and don't threaten legal action against their debtors.


Maybe he wasn’t made like Frank was, but he was definitely a wiseguy (crime family associate) and a lawyer.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 11:49 AM

The truth eventually trickles out Nickle, they are just confused and have ill conceived theories.
Posted By: Jeremythejew

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 04:25 PM

oh well I'm deff convinced buffalos active now. thanks.

ya.... fuck Nicky w his multiple reliable sources and his feds. he acts like it's there job or something to investigate

doesn't he know that buffalos mafia is similar to John carpenter THEY LIVE movie w roddie roddie piper.... doesn't he know u can only see the mafioso when he puts on the special glasses!!!
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jeremythejew
oh well I'm deff convinced buffalos active now. thanks.

ya.... fuck Nicky w his multiple reliable sources and his feds. he acts like it's there job or something to investigate

doesn't he know that buffalos mafia is similar to John carpenter THEY LIVE movie w roddie roddie piper.... doesn't he know u can only see the mafioso when he puts on the special glasses!!!


Lol... that's funny! At least you add some levity to the disagreement!! Of course none of this proves the Cosa Nostra in Buffalo still exists, but, for at least some, these coincidences make them go ...MMM? This is all this post is stating.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by The_Rooster
***joined the Union as teenagers***


Yeah, and I remember somebody dismissing your comment on Frank Falzone who is Leonard’s brother too. They wrote:

Quote
Wiseguys don't have law degrees, and don't threaten legal action against their debtors.


Maybe he wasn’t made like Frank was, but he was definitely a wiseguy (crime family associate) and a lawyer.


...And remember Buffalo was running call center collection scams in the 90's... Frank Falzone's legal activity corresponds with the rackets in which the Buffalo Crime Family was heavily involved. This could certainly be coincidence... but many sources have suggested Frank Falzone was/is a made man. I've personally heard this this allegation all over the Buffalo region and one can certainly find the allegation all over the place.

@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by The_Rooster
***joined the Union as teenagers***


Yeah, and I remember somebody dismissing your comment on Frank Falzone who is Leonard’s brother too. They wrote:

Quote
Wiseguys don't have law degrees, and don't threaten legal action against their debtors.


Maybe he wasn’t made like Frank was, but he was definitely a wiseguy (crime family associate) and a lawyer.


...And remember Buffalo was running call center collection scams in the 90's... Frank Falzone's legal activity corresponds with the rackets in which the Buffalo Crime Family was heavily involved. This could certainly be coincidence... but many sources have suggested Frank Falzone was/is a made man. I've personally heard this this allegation all over the Buffalo region and one can certainly find the allegation all over the place.

@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?


Do you means Frank Falzone ?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by The_Rooster
***joined the Union as teenagers***


Yeah, and I remember somebody dismissing your comment on Frank Falzone who is Leonard’s brother too. They wrote:

Quote
Wiseguys don't have law degrees, and don't threaten legal action against their debtors.


Maybe he wasn’t made like Frank was, but he was definitely a wiseguy (crime family associate) and a lawyer.


...And remember Buffalo was running call center collection scams in the 90's... Frank Falzone's legal activity corresponds with the rackets in which the Buffalo Crime Family was heavily involved. This could certainly be coincidence... but many sources have suggested Frank Falzone was/is a made man. I've personally heard this this allegation all over the Buffalo region and one can certainly find the allegation all over the place.

@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?


Do you means Frank Falzone ?


Yes...
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 05:50 PM

Quote
@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?


Do you means Frank Falzone ?
[/quote]

Yes...
[/quote]

In no place.Why ?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/09/buffalo-mob-may-be-dead-but-it-is-not.html

Quote
If the resulting 2006 FBI chart was correct, the Buffalo crew appeared to be a little top heavy. A boss and underboss, a consigliere, and four capos are shown to be presiding over a crew of just 16 �soldiers,� made guys who presumably do most of the heavy lifting.


Chart founded on the web

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese


quote=furio_from_naples]
Quote
@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?


Quote
Do you means Frank Falzone ?


Yes...

In no place.Why ?


I've seen you list him (Frank Falzone) in your lists of Buffalo Crime Family Soldiers on several sites... You list him at the beginning of this thread too. So the allegations that he was a made member of Buffalo are out there, but some on this thread don't think he is. I've heard and seen these allegations that Frank Falzone is a made man in Buffalo and I was assuming you have too, because you list him as such.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 06:17 PM

Jeremy, no one wants you to believe. The point is reliable sources take time to be proved wrong on any subject. Your horse in the race died at the gate when you realized you had nothing to offer and even less to post anyways.

Im interested in any info you may have about current Jewish gangsters..
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/17/18 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/09/buffalo-mob-may-be-dead-but-it-is-not.html

Quote
If the resulting 2006 FBI chart was correct, the Buffalo crew appeared to be a little top heavy. A boss and underboss, a consigliere, and four capos are shown to be presiding over a crew of just 16 �soldiers,� made guys who presumably do most of the heavy lifting.


Chart founded on the web

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese


quote=furio_from_naples]
Quote
@Furio, how many places have you seen it referenced that Frank was/is a made man in the Buffalo Crime Family?


Quote
Do you means Frank Falzone ?


Yes...

In no place.Why ?


I've seen you list him (Frank Falzone) in your lists of Buffalo Crime Family Soldiers on several sites... You list him at the beginning of this thread too. So the allegations that he was a made member of Buffalo are out there, but some on this thread don't think he is. I've heard and seen these allegations that Frank Falzone is a made man in Buffalo and I was assuming you have too, because you list him as such.


I found the list on internet 2 years ago and in the small families isn't easy to understand who was made so Falzone can easly be a powerful associate and I believe this because in the bill feather site he aren't listed as made man.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/19/18 12:53 PM

WAS THE BUFFALO CRIME FAMILY ABSORBED BY THE LUPPINO FAMILY IN CANADA? DOES THE CANADIAND 'NDRANGHETA RUN THE MOB IN BUFFALO? HAS IT BEEN IN CHARGE OF NARCOTICS TRAFFICKING IN BUFFALO SINCE THE 80's?

Taking the assumption that the Buffalo Crime Family is dead which many people on this forum make, I'm interested in their answer to the questions in my title: Was the Buffalo Crime Family Absorbed by the Luppino Family? If so, when did it happen?

Several articles, including The Toronto Star & The Globe, indicate a Todaro Crime Family Soldier or Associate named Massimigliano Carfagna of Hamilton was sentenced to 10 1/2 years for cocaine and heroin/fentanyl trafficking. It seems Carfagna’s arrest was part of the 3 1/2 year O'Tremens operation that saw the arrest of Giuseppe "Joe" Violi who is alleged to be the underboss of the Buffalo Crime family according to a controversial and unsubstantiated report.
For those who are not aware, OTremens is the operation where a “made member” of the Bonanno La Cosa Nostra family of New York City agreed to turn police agent and work undercover in southwestern Ontario."

The Toronto Star suggests Carfagna was a member of the Buffalo Crime Family during the Todaro reign. (Todaro was the last known and longtime Buffalo Boss of the Magaddino Empire which included Ontario Canada.) The article states that Massimigliano was arrested numerous times in the Untied States-specifically Niagara Falls. These arrests date back to 1987 and include charges for criminal impersonation, negligent homicide & disorderly conduct.

In what I assume is a plea agreement for less time Carfagna has incriminated the Violi brothers--especially Joe Violi-- in this trafficking scheme. The Star writes:

Quote
"In an agreed statement of facts, Carfagna agreed with the prosecution that, between March 1 and October 28, 2016, he and Giuseppe “Joey” Violi, 47, of Hamilton agreed to import 200 to 300 kilograms of cocaine into Canada. They sought to use the "police agent" from the Bonanno crime family and his connections to provide transportation for the cocaine."


Evidently that Bonanno Crime Family Member they met with was the undercover police agent in the O'tremens operation. The Globe writes:

Quote
"On one occasion, Mr. Carfagna and Mr. Violi – the son of slain Montreal mob boss Paolo Violi – travelled to British Columbia with the police agent to meet with an “experienced cocaine importer” who was actually an undercover police officer."


About Cafagna's connection to the Buffalo crime family The Globe corroborates what was written in the story. It said:

Quote
"Mr. Carfagna has a criminal record in the United States dating back to the 1980s in Niagara Falls, N.Y., with convictions for criminal impersonation, disorderly conduct and criminally negligent homicide."


The Big Question: Has the Buffalo Crime family been absorbed by Luppino/Papillia families of the Canadian 'Ndrangheta because that is where the real power is?

Another Question: Was Canada really running things in the Buffalo area--even back in the 80's.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/19/18 01:40 PM

Not the case Nickle overall...maybe they took over the sole import/export aspect but not absorption of the family
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/19/18 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Not the case Nickle overall...maybe they took over the sole import/export aspect but not absorption of the family


I don't think Buffalo was absorbed, although it could have been... just throwing a bone to those that do, to see what they think. I would like their opinion on the matter.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/19/18 03:38 PM

BIFULCO & VIOLI SHOWN TO WORK TOGETHER BY RCMP ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE 90's

Here is a picture of a RCMP document showing the Violi's, Luppino's, Pugliese's, Papalia's and Buffalo made men working together in the late 90's and early 2000's. The document is from late 2002 or 2003. It mentions both Nicolletti and BiFulco--men rumored to have been atop of Buffalo's Administration after the Joe Todaro Jr supposedly stepped down from acting boss to consigliere sometime after 2006.

[Linked Image]

It should be noted that the brother of Vincenzo Campannella, Jr. (listed in this photo) moved from Hamilton to Lewiston, NY (Just outside Niagara, Falls) after getting married in 1990. Capanella's have been tied to Buffalo and Rochester crime families it the past. Here is the article from the Baffalo News Titled: Mrs Capannella:

Quote
A reception was given in Buffalo Convention Center after LoriAnn Speaker became the bride of Calogero Campanella at 4 p.m. Saturday in St. Anthony of Padua Catholic Church. The Rev. Secondo Casarotto performed the ceremony.

Parents of the bride are Mr. and Mrs. Richard Speaker of Arnold Street and parents of the bridegroom are Mr. and Mrs. Vincenzo Campanella of Hamilton, Ont.

After traveling to Jamaica, the newly married couple will be at home in Lewiston.

The bride, a graduate of Lafayette High School, attends Niagara University. She is employed by Goldome Bank. The bridegroom is employed by Dofasco Steel Inc., Hamilton.


Of course this doesn't prove the Buffalo Mob still exists. But it does purport the strong connections the Buffalo family had to the Hamilton 'Ndrangheta clans even into the 2000's.

EDIT: Also, it indicates BiFulco and Violi have worked together in the past giving a list a tiny bit of credibility to the controversial and unsubstantiated allegation that they serve as Boss and Underboss of the Buffalo Crime Family. Notice I said, a tiny bit of creditability to that claim. It comes no were close to substantiating that claim!
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/19/18 03:57 PM

You pretty much found all the modern day connections to the family and I believe that all of this refutes much of what has been written and speculated that it is dead and that the Canada faction is separate
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/23/18 04:24 PM

THE FBI HAS HAD A LONG HISTORY OF WORKING WITH THE MAFIA, at least according to Vince Arpa. Others have made the same allegation. Mores specifically, Attorney William Gary Iannaccone from Buffalo, describes how the Buffalo Field office was in bed with the Buffalo Crime family in Buffalo in the past, documents it into the 90's, and believes they are still cohorts today.

Arpa writes about the FBI, LCN, the KKK, and the civil rights movement in the South. In the post he highlights how the FBI used Mob Strongman Gregory Scarpa all the way into the ’90's.

Quote
Mississippi Burning

In 1998, Samuel K. Bowers, the imperial wizard of a Mississippi KKK faction, was found guilty in the Dahmer firebombing murder 26 The FBI later attributed nine murders and three hundred beatings, arsons, and bombings to Bowers's klavern, or local unit, of the Ku Klux klan’s White Knights. He had previously served six years for the Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney killings, which were executed by the same Klan cell. Edgar Ray Killen, who was the actual ringleader in the MISSBURN murders, escaped conviction in 1967 after an all-white jury deadlocked.

But in 2005, when new evidence was developed he was found guilty of manslaughter. At the age of eighty, Killen was sentenced to sixty years in prison.

Then, in February 2009, Killen filed suit against the FBI, arguing that his civil rights had been violated-because of the Bureau's use of Gregory Scarpa Sr., a Mafia killer, in solving the Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney kidnap-murders.

"The information that Scarpa obtained by use of torture violates Killen's civil rights [his right to due process ... [and] the right to confront witnesses," his lawyer said.

One former DEA special agent, Mike Levine, was astonished by Hoover's decision to enlist a known Mafia strongman to further the cause of justice. "Here the FBI uses a member of a violent society-La Cosa secret Nostra—to travel down to Mississippi on multiple missions to torture confessions out of two guys who were also members of a violent secret s the Klan. Since when does the federal government have to stoop to levels like that to make cases?
This was during the same era when the CIA was trying to get mob guys to kill Castro."

As Levine notes, such behavior on the Feds' part was roundly denounced during congressional hearings in the 1970s and the popular assumption was that it stopped. "But the fact that the Bureau continued to use a multiple murderer like Scarpa right up into the early 1990s," says Levine, "just proves that it didn't." …



According to Buffalo area lawyer William Gary Iannaccone the FBI Field office in Buffalo has, also, had a long working relationship with the Cosa Nostra family in Western New York. In particular, he suggests they partnered to provide drugs used discredit the counterculture developing at University at Buffalo and Buffalo State and the newly birthed hippy movement in the country at that time.

How would Iannacconne know?

There are several reasons:

  • 1) He alleges that he and his father were part of the secret MKUltra experiments involving LCD and other mind altering drugs which were being performed by government law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
  • 2) He was related to a narcotics trafficker (Mother’s Cousin) who had strong ties to Stefano Magaddino and the Buffalo Crime family who helped launder money (millions in savings bonds) owed his father.
  • 3) His uncle was Joe Pezzino was a member of Buffalo LCN and involved in the reinvestment of that laundered money stolen from him as a rightful heir.
  • 4) Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Kaufman notified the FBI to OC involvement in the embezzlement/laundering of the bonds and the execution of Iannaccone’s friend Thomas Martin to discourage William Iannaconne from continuing to pursue the matter and stated: “…the FBI is not properly investigating these alleged crimes involving organized crime.” This took place in the late ’80’s through the middle ’90’s.


See Iannaccone’s post highlighting, the timeline of alleged events, his case and legal activity pursuing the matter:
Investigation/Evidence for Million Dollar Recovery of Embezzled/Laundered US Savings Bonds by Buffalo Sicilian Mafia. Here is the facebook link:

Evidence & Timeline

Iannaccone provides a photo from 1972:

[Linked Image]

In the picture: Phil Napoli (left) a narcotics trafficker who had ties to Stefano Magaddino the Don of the Niagara Falls/Buffalo crime family and Iannaccone’s mother [Phil Napoli’s Cousin]. According to Iannaccone, Napoli moved from Buffalo to San Francisco in the late 1960's just prior to the Haight-Ashbury hippie invasion. He did so in partnership with the FBI (as did many in the mob) to supply drugs to discredit the hippie/peace movement that was developing.

Also in the picture is Frank “Bucky” Ciminelli (right) a Buffalo construction magnate, said to be mob associate of the Buffalo Crime Family by Ron Fino in his book the Triangle Exit.

Additionally, Iannaccone indicates Ron Fino worked with the CIA and LCN to provide mind altering drugs to discredit the student movement at Buffalo State, while he studied there. Gary suggests it was this government connection to the CIA and what he knew that enabled him to get "work" as an FBI informant "to rid" LIUNA Local 210 of mafia control and influence. Of course he thinks the Buffalo LCN and the FBI where in cahoots, even in the 80’s through the 90’s. Arpa’s post suggests the same! And because they were in bed together in the ’90’s, the government never really removed OC from the union.

About Fino Iannaccone writes:

Quote
In a Buffalo News Article of 2/2/89, Michael Beebe, reveals Local 210 member Ron Fino worked for the CIA from 1965 – 1969 as a SUNY at Buffalo student informer to infiltrate the Students for a Democratic Society. Ron’s father Joe was mob capo. The CIA recruited students as part of Operation Chaos, an unauthorized domestic spying op in the late 1960’s.
In the article Fino said “he was feeding it (CIA) information on Students for a Democratic Society” who were organizing anti-Vietnam War protests. Curiously enough, scores of SDS swallowed-up on-campus LSD and many went from pragmatic left-wing radicals to wide-eyed, soul searching, fringed avatars.

Note: Millions of dollars of CIA research grants were paid to professors and psychological researchers at Universities across the U.S to experiment with psychedelic drugs (See ABC News Closeup: Mission Mind Control, 1/30/79 transcripts pg 6, 25 & 34, Item #30)

Incidentally, in the same Buffalo News Article Fino said he used his Mafia connections to help the CIA look for possible mob connections in the John F. Kennedy assassination

After his stint with the CIA Fino becomes an informer for the FBI in 1972 at age 24 while taking over Local 210. As described above (at 2/27/85) Fino later got in hot water when the Buffalo News revealed a fraudulent minority front company he was involved in-the Onyx Construction and Equipment Co. Fino now says it was a government sting set up in 1978 aimed at former mob boss Sam Pieri.

Note: U.S Attorney Richard D. Kaufman (who I have worked with on these investigations since 1985) remarked to me that when Fino started singing to the press he was in hot water in a criminal proceeding.

Was Fino using the press to gain leverage for leniency in the criminal case by coming forward to say he worked for the CIA during the late 1960’s at UB?

What else does he know that the CIA did not want him to reveal?

Most likely it had to do with the Mafia-CIA links in Mk-Ultra that even Fino did not know the depths of-that I had uncovered.

See Buffalo News article 2/2/89 Item # 31
* See my blogs "Press Release-Mk-Utra Survivor Finds Missing Link Proves CIA Caused Drug Crisis" and "Buffalo's Unraveling Nexus of OC, CIA, FBI and Nazi-type Experiments," at http://www.myspace.com/redchameleon


Here are Iannaccone’s posts. They are long but worth the read:

Quote
Buffalo's Unraveling Nexus of OC, CIA, FBI & Nazi-type Experiments
May 29, 2009 at 6:09am
By William G. Iannaccone.
NLG Buffalo Chapter

Like the 1937 founders of the National Lawyers Guild I'd like to carry on in the tradition of an antifascist ethos, born of personal experience.

"Son, there are things that people made me do. I don't have the heart to tell you. I want to leave you these papers. You're going to have to figure it out for your self. No one is going to help you. This way I'll know you'll be alright."

My mother spoke these words of wisdom as she handed me a file box brimming with documents giving me clues to my own family's once hidden past, before her passing in 1978.

The pieces of the puzzle fell neatly in place to reveal a clarion scenario. After years of investigation and pro se litigation I'd gathered the evidence and family testimonials to prove my father, a WWII veteran, and my self, were unwitting victims of the CIA's MK-ULTRA behavioral science program.

Buffalo, N.Y, hometown of OSS veteran "Wild Bill" Donovan, I found to be a city steeped in a mysterious unraveling nexus of organized crime; CIA; FBI, and Nazi-type experimenters.

In the book "Hide In Plain Sight," Leslie Waller chronicles the court cases of Thomas Leonard of Buffalo who ran into a legal brick wall in efforts to contact his children, who along with his estranged wife and hoodlum lover Paddy Calabrese went into hiding from November 1967 to July 1975 in Pres. Richard M. Nixon's premier witness protection program: Like Leonard, I too ran into legal road-blocks to thwart my cause for truth and justice.

The witness protection program was hatched out of Buffalo's and the nation's first OC Strike Force. Two men in Justice put the pilot Strike Force idea together and sold it to Attorney Gen. Ramsey Clark (1967-69): (1) Robert Dolan Peloquin a veteran of the "Hoffa Squad" and (2) Henry Peterson who was later caught in the Watergate squeeze. The FBI refused to assign personnel or open their files to the Strike Force (Waller 131-32).

On Feb. 27, 1967, in the N.Y. Chautauqua County Jail, Paddy Calabrese reportedly started singing to John J. Honan, Asst. Erie Co. DA and Buffalo PO Samuel N. Giambrone, providing the inside scoop on the Magaddino empire (Waller 141).

Waller writes the Buffalo Strike Force was advised by "elements within the Justice Department…One (of whom) who'd been in OSS and the CIA," wanted Calabrese in deep cover in a small Michigan town. Joe Fino, mob capo, had reportedly told Giambrone to keep Calabrese off the streets of Buffalo (Waller 187).

On May 8, 1967 – FBI raided Snowball's at Hamphire and Grant. Thirty-six were taken into custody for consorting with known criminals, including Natarelli, Randaccio and Stevie Cino.

The next morning all charges were dismissed. End of Episode. Beginning of speculation. What was the FBI doing, staging a raid it knew would end in dismissal?

Waller says Giambrone would not speculate about the mysterious FBI raid anymore than why Hoover was soft on the mob. (Waller 162-63).

In 1968 Magaddino and six associates were indicted on charges of gambling and racketeering. The Funeral Chapel in Niagara Falls was bugged by the FBI from 1962-65. Judge John O. Henderson ruled against the government. He told the FBI in May 1973 unless they produce untainted evidence the case would be dismissed. The FBI did not. Henderson threw out the indictments and was upheld by the USCA 2nd Circuit on May 8, 1974.

Six days later the U.S. Supreme Court freed thousands of OC figures indicted and found guilty of narcotics charges on grounds of tainted evidence.

Attorney Gen. John N. Mitchell had broken the law by not personally signing authorizations for wire-taps of evidence leading to the convictions. Waller pens, "Whether that was deliberate or accidental oversight is not known to this day" (Waller 254).

Italian authorities report from 1950 -60 Magaddino headed a ring that brought heroin from Italy and to Canada and Eastern US, bringing in 150 million a year (Waller 254).

Calabrese moved to Reno, Nevada in 1969 and stayed till 1974 visiting Buffalo three or four times during that time. Tom Leonard who was closest to the action is quoted, by Waller, as saying "You see what a lie this all was? The government claiming their lives were in danger and them going back and forth to Buffalo?" Waller concedes, "The question was inescapable was Paddy in danger or wasn't he?" (Waller 263-66).

Waller concludes: "There is a vast and growing overlap between the activities of all our intelligence organizations and the activities of organized crime. Frequently, as in the Bay of Pigs affair, the personnel are identical. The same agents serve two masters and are later recycled as hit men against Castro's person… As the Watergate currency, laundering indicates, not only does organized crime make cash contributions to the law establishment, but the establishment also tethers to organized crime" (Waller 275-78).

In a Buffalo News article on Feb. 2, 1989, by Michael Beebe, it was first reported that Local 210 member Ron Fino worked for the CIA form 1965 to 1969 as a SUNY at Buffalo student informer to infiltrate the Students for a Democratic Society. Ron's father Joe was a mob capo, supra. The CIA recruited students as part of Operation Chaos, an unauthorized domestic spying op in the late 1960's.

In the article Fino said, "he was feeding it (CIA) information on Students for a Democratic Society" who were organizing anti-Vietnam War protests. Curiously enough, scores in SDS swallowed up on campus LSD and many went from pragmatic left-wing radicals to wide-eyed, soul-searching, fringed avatars.

Millions of dollars of CIA research grants were paid to professors and psychological researchers at Universities across the U.S to experiment with psychedelic drugs (ABC News Closeup: Mission Mind Control, 1979 transcripts pg. 6, 25, &34).

Incidentally, in the same Buffalo News article, Fino said he used his Mafia connections to help the CIA look for possible mob connections in the John F. Kennedy assassination.

My investigations juxtaposed with my experiences aims to prove: (1) Fino not only infiltrated Students for Democratic Society for the CIA in the late 1960s at the University of New York at Buffalo in operation Chaos to provide information on SDS, but also to mentor provocateurs. And that, Fino used his underworld connections to target this student organization for neutralization, by the facilitation of drugs on campus to disorganize, discredit in the press, and politically disengage.

And that: (2) my father and I were subjected to a more individual specific yet related CIA parallel behavioral science project called MK-ULTRA that took place in stages over the years and was most active during the late 1960s, as described as follows:

My father, Peter, was unwittingly confined to the VA Canandaigua Hospital by my mother in 1948 soon after he obtained a legal separation. My mother wanted to be a mom: I was born in 1952, their only son. According to my elder cousins' testimony my father was given sub rosa psychoactive substances in his food since 1954. They further testify from 1957-1958 he was subjected to severe electro-shocks that resulted in symptoms of left hemisphere brain damage. According to my cousins, my illiterate mother was tricked into to signing consents for these unusual and cruel experiments.

In April 1953 the CIA began its clandestine mind control program code-named MK-ULTRA, authorized by Directorate Allen Dulles. The use of psycho active drugs for inhumane psychological experimentation has its roots in the ilk of mescaline studies conducted at the Dachau Nazi concentration camp, under the inauspiciousness of Dr. Hubertus Strughold. Severe, long-lasting, debilitating electro-shock was also a part of the MK-ULTRA psy-ops arsenal.

My father was released to the home environment in 1966 at the peak of his trauma. I was fourteen. I went from an unruly teacher's pet to a truant. The Family Court ordered me on probation May 8, 1968 one day after receiving an injection, by Bernard H. Smith, M.D., Head Neurologist-who appeared to me like a specter of Mengele- at Erie County Medical Center. In spite of a court order for the complete records, granted Dec.24th, 1985, filed in NYS Supreme Court, Index H 50258, (file incomplete) ECMC has yet to comply.

In Aug. through Dec.1968, during a Family Court ordered placement to ECMC, I was subjected to a salvo of a cruel type of pseudo-psychoanalytical torture and sexual molestation under hypnosis, by an Episcopalian Chaplin/therapist Lawrence B. Hardy.

In Aug. 1969 Hardy wrote in my medical records "Talked to pt's (patients) mother's attorney a Mr. Musarra who seemed like a pretty good fellow & was willing to go along w (with) our treatment plan."

Arthur F. Musarra, my mother's family lawyer and lawyer for Local 210 had in July 1965 devised reciprocal wills and waivers for my mother and father waving their rights against each other's estate in favor me.

Those wills, according to Surrogate Court Registration card 70602 were filed in the Erie County Surrogate's Court on Oct.15, 1965. Since, my father was declared incompetent in 1960, by William J. Regan, Erie Co. Justice, my father's waiver was fraudulent. Those wills, filed under my mother's name, were removed by Charles D. Wallace, Esq. on May 1, 1972. The Surrogate Court, to this day, refuses to acknowledge those 1965 wills (my father's will) in violation of SCPA section 2507 and Penal Law section 190.30-Concealment of a Will. My father passed away in 1992.

The 1040 Individual Tax Returns for my father and mother show that from 1956 – 1971 no social security number was used for my father. However, from 1973- 1976 my social security number is substituted for my father's. 1972 is missing.

My mother left me pictures of her taken in front of Hurrah's Casino in Las Vegas, in 1972, with her cousin Philip (Cheech) Napoli, of S.F. Cali. (whose father had known ties to Magaddino) and "Bucky" Ciminelli. See pic of my mum doing the laundry in Las Vegas https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/9059c887-f509-4fca-b318-bf61fabcce93

I'd bet it all: that under the shrewd esoteric eye of the Hugh's – Magaddino co-dominion- one million greenbacks of my father's VA disability funds invested in US Savings Bonds, since 1948, got lost in the wash.

And, I'd bet my Uncle Joseph Pezzino's John Hancock, on a forged piece of the rock, meant for me, negotiated at the M&T Bank, was just the tip of the ice berg. Joe hung out with Charlie Caci, a/k/a Bobby Angelli and other Local 210 insiders, including Ron Fino.

Surrogate, William J. Regan (who as County Judge declared my father incompetent in 1960 and did not appoint a committee) failed to do so again in the Surrogate proceedings in 1979.

Surrogate, John J. Honan (who as DA in 1967 reportedly got Calabrese to sing, presided over a 1981 Settlement Decree that was made prior to discovery and a full accounting made of the assets belonging to the estates of my mother and father. The decree was made without my knowledge and later reopened to include my father's interests: my father was not mentioned the 1974 and 1978 wills. Charles D. Wallace, Esq. who drafted the 74 & 78 wills for my mother, told the Surrogate he did not know my father was alive.

Four days before my father died on April 20, 1992, I was informed by SSA that he was entitled to Medicare; Husband's Insurance Benefits and Widower's from 1976. SSA had misinformed me in writing back on Jan. 25, 1984 that no benefits were being paid "on his account." SSA failed to mention my father was entitled to benefits on my mother's earnings record who worked at Trico, since 1948.

I litigated the case from 1992 to 2001, pro se (as party in interest and as proper party estate delegate) winning two consecutive appeals at the Second Circuit and then filing a writ of certiorari at the U.S. Supreme Court for pro se legal-work compensation. The case was rejected. The SSA inconceivably argued all along my father's 1976 application was filed incorrectly, yet refuses to produce it, to this day.

The application was "deemed" as filed correctly a few weeks prior to oral argument for my second appeal at the USCA 2nd Circuit.

As Administrator for my father's estate I just might have another shot in the U.S. Supreme Court for compensation for my pro se legal-work. I'd be the first pro se in U.S. history to get paid in a federal case as the prevailing party to overturn Kay V. Ehrler, 499 U.S. 432 (1991).

My investigations and litigations in following the money trail are continuing.

I'm also investigating leads to discover whether the US military resorted to chemical-biological warfare in gene mutation in conjunction with spraying the defoliant Agent Orange during the Vietnam War causing FSH Muscular Dystrophy in generations of Vietnamese civilians, some U.S. soldiers and in my son, Sol, caused by the March 7, 1968 injection, described supra, most likely research conducted for the U.S. Government, by the Veteran's Administration and/or SUNY at Buffalo Medical School related to the SUNY at Buffalo's Project Themis.
I've just begun my fight for truth and justice. I'm moving on.

Epilogue: What has surfaced since?

Of Henry Peterson and Robert Peloquin, the two DOJ officers who first launched the Strike Force idea in 1967. Peterson became involved in serving Nixon's interests during the Watergate cover-up and left the DOJ. (Waller 284)

Peloquin left the DOJ in late 1967 and went on to make a mysterious career out of organized crime. As early as 1966, on a DOJ official assignment in the Caribbean, he reported overtures by organized crime to take-over casino gambling in the Bahamas. Peloquin reported phenomenal success of ridding the casino of a mob take over. So successful, in fact, he formed his own concern to offer his services to businessmen worried of Mafia take-over of their companies. (Waller 284).

By late 1967 Peloquin resigned from the DOJ and went to work as VP of a company that operated the Paradise Island gambling as a subsidiary of the Mary Carter Paint Co. Eduardo Cellini, an aide of mobster Meyer Lansky from the early days of Havana was manager of the casino, under Peloquin. In early 1968, Mary Carter Paint Co. had changed its name to Resorts International Inc. (Waller 284).

Resorts International built a casino on Paradise Island. Richard Nixon was the guest of honor at the casino's grand opening on New Year's Eve 1968. James Crosby, Pres. of Resorts International, contributed $100,000 to Nixon's campaign. Crosby, Bebe Rebozo, Nixon's buddy, and Nixon partied with a bevy of movie stars, gangsters and GOP faithful. (Martin A. Lee "Acid Dreams: The CIA, LSD and the Sixties Rebellion," 245).


William G. Iannaccone is NLG legal worker member of the National Lawyers Guild Buffalo, N.Y, city chapter which he reorganized, along with a SUNY at Buffalo student chapter in the spring of 2007.
William has since 1985 worked with Richard D. Kaufman, Asst. U.S. Attorney and former member of the WNY Organized Crime Strike Force in investigations related to organized crime, including unsolved murders.

As a member of the NLG national Drug Policy Committee he is working on a proposed workshop "The Evidence: Timothy Leary/Mk-Ultra/Sicilian Mafia: The Dawning of the Drug War" for the Detroit Mich. 2008 Convention.

William attended SUNY at Buffalo and graduated with a BA in the Social Sciences Interdisciplinary-Legal Studies program, in May 2004. As a second generation MK-ULTRA survivor he is working on a book/film script revealing his unique insider's look into MK-ULTRA, the CIA's ultra secret behavioral science program, mentored by Prof. Mark Shechner, his former English professor, at SUNY at Buffalo.


Here is the timeline article/post by Iannaccone:

Quote
Investigation/Evidence for Million Dollar Recovery of Embezzled/Laundered US Savings Bonds by Buffalo Sicilian Mafia
May 17, 2009 at 12:33pm

Investigation & Evidence of Million Dollar Embezzlement/Laundering
of US Saving Bonds belonging to my father Peter Iannaccone, U.S. WWII Veteran for recovery from the U.S. Dept. of the Treasury

The funds were derived from his federal Veteran's disability payments paid since 1948 & invested into bonds then emblezzled/laundered by my maternal Uncle Joe Pezzino & cousin Phil Napoli in 1972 who were in the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia (also below is related claim of homicide of Thomas F. Martin III in 1985 by my Uncle Joe Pezzino). The million dollars was then invested in Samuel's Grande Manor in 1978 http://www.SamuelsGrandeManor.com

My father was used for torturous CIA drug experimentation while involuntarily confined to the Canandaigua Veteran's Hospital since 1948 as I subsequently was beginning in 1968 in follow-up research.

***

Brief history of Mk-Ultra the CIA’s cold-war behavioral science drug project from “The Search for the Manchurian Candidate: The CIA and Mind Control,” by author John Marks, a former State Dept. official.

Clandestine lobbying by British agents in the U.S. led to Pres. Franklin Roosevelt’s creation of OSS in 1942. It was under the command of Wall Street lawyer Gen. William “Wild Bill” Donovan a native of Buffalo’s South Ward.

In 1943 doctors connected to the S.S and Gestapo were doing mescaline experiments on prisoners at Dachau. At this time OSS, set up a “truth drug” committee under Dr. Winfred Overholser, head of St. Elizabeth’s Hospital in Washington. The committee tried various drugs including mescaline and marijuana and set up a testing program in cooperation with the Manhattan Project.

The first field tests of marijuana laced cigarettes took place on May 27, 1943. The subject was August Del Gracio a notorious New York gangster. George White, who came to OSS from the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, administered the drug. White learned much about the narcotics trade from Del Gracio and wanted the Mafia’s cooperation to keep Axis agents out of the New York waterfront and to prepare the way for the invasion of Sicily.

Naval Intelligence sealed a deal in which mob leaders promised to cooperate and N.Y. Gov. Thomas Dewey ordered Del Gracio’s boss of bosses, Charlie “Lucky” Luciano freed from jail in 1946.

The truth-drug committee authorized George White who borrowed dossiers from the FBI to test marijuana as an interrogation technique on suspected communist soldiers stationed in U.S. military camps.

In 1946 prior to the conclusion of the Nuremberg trials U.S investigative teams sifted through the experimental records at Dachau for information of military value. Military authorities sent the records, including a description of the mescaline and hypnosis experiments back to the U.S. None of the German mind-control research was ever made public.

In 1947 the CIA and National Security Council was created- the command structure for the cold war. On April 13, 1953 Allen Dulles approved a project for the “covert use of biological and chemical materials,” proposed by Richard Helms-code named Mk-Ultra.

Issues:

Whether US Dept. of Treasury is mandated to produce the registration records of and be liable for an investment of US Savings Bonds belonging to a WWII Veteran derived from his VA disability payments from 1945 to 1979, where the evidence shows:

The US Veteran was involuntarily confined to the Canandaigua VA Hospital in 1948 by his spouse Mamie following a legal or common law marriage separation and used for CIA drug experimentation since at least the mid 1950s, debilitating electroshocks in 1957-58, and then legally declared an incompetent person in 1960, but no committee appointed.

And where, these bonds were embezzled/laundered in 1972 by my maternal uncle Joseph Pezzino & maternal second cousin Philip Napoli who were members of the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia, as described below.

And where, the Dept of the Treasury admits via letter dated 3/17/88, from L.M. Aanerud, Director, Division of Transaction and Rulings that:
“A search of the Department’s Series G, H, and E registration records for May 1941 through January 1979 with the names, addresses, and social security account numbers furnished disclose the issuance of several bonds, all of which were redeemed more than 10 years ago…”

Chronology & Facts: (w/o Exh.)

Peter Iannaccone DOB 3/2/11, DOD 4/20/92.
Mamie (Iannaccone-if married? nee Pezzino) DOB 3/30/18, DOD 10/15/78.
William Gary Iannaccone sole son of Peter & Mamie DOB 12/8/52
Wm. Sol Iannaccone son of William, DOB 7/29/71


1/1/38

Peter stands up with Mamie for a wedding of Mamie’s brother Philip Pezzino. Although, various certificates of marriage are produced by Mamie showing they married on 4/24/38, as shown below, an actual copy of the marriage license has yet to be produced. Also, there are no known pictures of Peter & Mamie’s wedding.
See picture-Mamie is first left. Peter is second left.

1942

According to Honorable Discharge filed 4/7/55 in Erie Co. Clerks Office Liber 325, pg. 227 it states: Peter was inducted on 3/14/42 into the armed services and honorably discharged on 9/23/44: Physical Condition “Good:” Character “Very Good:” Status “Married.” “Left U.S. 8 Oct. 43, arrived European Theater 18 Oct 43; left European Theater 6 April 44, arrived U.S. 22 Apr. 44.”
See Honorable Discharge Exh. # 1

1943

Pri. Peter Iannaccone, Hq. Co. 1st Battalion, 110 Inf., sends a postcard mail-stamped 9/20/43 from Camp Pickett, Virginia stating he’s feeling fine.

1944

According to letter of information provided by the VA Peter was admitted to the Canandaigua VA Hospital from 9/23/44 to 2/22/46. Peter’s family was informed by military sources that while serving in England a bombed building collapsed on Peter resulting in a nervous condition.

5/1945

Mamie obtains a Cert. from the First Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church stating the records of First Trinity show Peter & Mamie were married on April 24th, 1938 Witnessed by F.E. Eschbach & W.C. Ruhland.
(See copy of May 7, 1945 Certificate Exh. #2.)

8/1945

V.A letter states Peter was receiving VA benefits from August 1, 1945 and Mamie was the custodian from that time. Mamie died on 10/15/78. On November 1, 1978 (Marie Law-Mamie’s sister) was recognized as VA custodian until 7/31/84. Horace A. Gioia, Esq. was court appointed as Committee for Peter on 6/18/84. William & Eleanor Iannaccone (Peter’s son/blood-niece) were appointed Successor Co-Committee on 10/20/89.
William G. Iannaccone is the current Administrator of the Estate of Peter.
(See copy of VA letter dated May 15, 1986 Exh. #3 & Cert. of Admin. #4)

7/13/1947

Charles Pezzino, Mamie’s father passes away leaving a large family of twelve in financial hardship.

1948

Peter’s family including Eleanor (blood-niece-age 17), testify Peter was living with his father & mother at 149 W. Ferry prior to 1948. Peter was self employed as a painter/wall-paper hanger. Peter was in the process of having a legal or common law marriage separation and obtained a protective order against Mamie and her brothers. Mamie and Peter were disputing entitlement to Peter’s VA funds. Also, Peter had named his mother as beneficiary on his VA Life Insurance. Mamie wanted to be the beneficiary.
Eleanor testifies that Mamie shouted from out side the home, “If you don’t live with me, I’ll put you back in Canandaigua.”
Betty Furhey, Mamie’s blood-niece was with Mamie at that time and confirms Mamie’s threat verbatim. Betty states Mamie was jealous of Peter’s blonde sister-in-law Ruth Taylor and wanted Peter’s child and VA money.
Eleanor testifies two men in long white coats showed up at 149 W. Ferry soon after Mamie’s threat and forcibly retrained Peter in a straight jacket and removed him to Canandaigua.

4/1/48 to 11/13/53

VA letter states Peter was confined to the Canandaigua VA Hospital.
4/1/1948 to 11/13/52. William was conceived around 3/8/52.

1948

Mamie began her employment at Trico Products Plant II were she worked until 1976

1950

Mamie obtains a Certified Statement of Marriage stating Peter & Mamie were married on 4/24/38 by Rev. Frederick Ruhland, from the City Clerk. It states this in NOT a Marriage Certificate but a verified statement (of marriage). It notes Registration No. 815 (1938). (See, Cert. Statement of Marriage, dtd 8/30/1950, Exh. #5.)

11/13/52

According to Eleanor (Peter’s niece) Peter’s mother, Amelia (nee Girro) who was trying to remove Peter from the VA Hospital ate something before retiring, sat up in bed and died. Eleanor states Amelia had no illness prior to that time and no autopsy was performed.

12/8/52

William G. Iannaccone was born. Certain members of both families state Peter did not want a child with Mamie. Jim Pontrello (Mamie’s blood- nephew) states an injection was used to induce Mamie’s pregnancy.

1/21/1954

Mamie takes out a mortgage with Western Savings Bank of Buffalo on a home at 4121 North Bailey Ave that she bought in her name and her mother Maria Pezzino’s (nee Napoli) name. Mamie did not use a VA mortgage which would have offered a lower loan rate indicating she was not eligible therefore not his legal spouse. This first time only VA mortgage was later used by William to finance the home purchased in his father’s name in 1986. See copy of mortgage, filed in liber 4957, page 165 dated 1/21/54-note drawing of house in top margin is Peter’s which he subsequently drew often, Exh. # 6.)

12/9/55 to 3/3/1960

Peter is confined to the VA Canandaigua Hospital.

Both Betty Furhey and Evelyn Harcrow (blood-nieces) who visited Peter often at the Canandaigua VA Hospital with Mamie testify psychedelic drugs were put in Peter’s food in the mid- 1950’s that made him hallucinate and caused fear and anger. They state Mamie who was illiterate was made to sign consents to have Peter used for experimentation by a VA nurse who befriended the family as a fellow Christian. The above experimentation was confirmed by several of Mamie’s blood-relatives and Peter’s brother Carmen.

Betty Fuhrey and Eleanor Harcrow (Mamie’s blood-nieces) also testify that from 1957-58 Peter underwent severe electro-shocks that caused abnormal speech patterns. He was no longer able to speak coherently yet retained the ability to sing coherently and swear (symptoms of left hemisphere brain damage). These electro-shocks causing verbal abnormalities are also confirmed by several of Mamie’s blood relatives. (See “The Astonishing Hypothesis,” by Francis Crick for symptoms of left-hemisphere damage, pg. 88, Exh. #7).

*See my blog "Family Affidavit (subscribed 7/28/05) to Sen. Clinton re Release of Medical Record of Injection, " at http://www.myspace.com/redchameleon

(3/4/60-8/19/60) Peter is out of the VA Hospital.

William is in 2nd Grade & paints on the easel stick figures of him self and his mother at his home with his father in the background in front of the Canadaigua VA Hospital building. The teacher Mrs. Payne sends him to see the school nurse.

8/20/1960

Upon the petition of Mamie, Peter is judicially declared an Incompetent Person by Judge William J. Regan of the County Court of Erie, but no Committee is appointed. Regan later became a Surrogate Justice and failed to properly identify Peter as an Incompetent and appoint a Committee for Peter’s interests in the estate of Mamie in 1979.

Evelyn Harcrow testifies in a sworn affidavit subscribed on July 28, 2005 sent to Sen. Clinton that: “Peter’s diagnosis on page 3 (of the petition), made while Peter was admitted to the E.J. Meyer Memorial Hospital (Erie Co. Medical Center), on Aug. 19, 1960, as ‘Schizophrenic-Paranoid Type,’ is inaccurate and misleading. It does not take into account that Peter’s condition resulted from his subjugation to experimental military-type research while involuntarily confined to the Canandaigua V.A. Hospital…” (page 3, paragraph 12 of affidavit).

Harcrow also testifies: “I find it remarkable that my Aunt Mamie stated (on the Petition) ‘my husband has a history of mental illness since 1942 and 1943.’ My Aunt Mamie use to falsely claim to others that Peter was severely shell-shocked in WWII to hide the fact she was coerced into consenting for Peter to undergo experimental research that destroyed him psychologically-mainly to keep this secret from her son William G. Iannaccone” (page 3, paragraph 12 of affidavit).

See Petition & Adjudication of Incompetent Person dated 8/20/60 & Iannaccone/Harcrow Affidavit (w/o Exh.) dated 7/28/05- Exh. #8 & #9.

Evelyn, also responds to statements by Mamie upon which the Incompetence Petition is based (as follows) “He mumbles to himself and sometimes will point to a window and says there out there.” Evelyn states Peter most likely was actually being harassed by Uncle Joseph Pezzino and his mob associates and was reacting to actual threats.

8/24/60 to 10/12/66

V.A letter informs from 8/24/60 to 10/12/66 Peter was confined to the VA Canandaigua Hospital.

1965

Just prior to Peter’s release in 1966 from Canandaigua VA Hospital reciprocal wills & NYS estate waivers were made for Peter & Mamie by Arthur F. Musarra, Mamie’s family lawyer since 1953 and lawyer of Local 210, waiving their rights to each others estates in favor of their son. The fact that separate estates exist proves there was no legal marriage in effect.

(See July 22, 1965 letter by Musarra Exh #10)


10/15/65

The reciprocal wills & NYS estate waivers were filed in the Erie Co. Surrogate Court under Mamie’s name and removed on 5/1/72.
Betty Fuhrey who knew the Musarra family delivered papers between Musarra’s law office during this time and confirms the making of the wills (See Surrogate Court registration card # 70602, Exh # 11)

1966

On 10/12/66 Peter is released to live at the home of Mamie & William in a state of severe trauma. William was 13 years old-Grade 9. Peter was often threatened by Mamie’s brother Joe Pezzino a member of the Sicilian Mafia which exacerbated his trauma and rage as confirmed by several of Mamie’s family members.

5/15/67

William is truant from school and is petitioned to Family Court by Mamie as a Person In Need of Supervision (PIN). On 1/17/68 William appears before Judge Killeen who orders a probation investigation. Mamie is being advised by Gerald M. Marek, probation officer who befriends the family as a fellow Christian.


9/1967

William is introduced to marijuana by Dan Parisi, William’s fraternity (TKB) president, whose father was in the Buffalo mafia and who was a friend of Joe Pezzino William’s cousin and owner of Samuel’s Grande Manor. Parisi was later cited in the Buffalo News for a large marijuana distribution ring bust. Parisi also served as an accountant for the Catholic Diocese.

3/3/68- 3/7/68

William is admitted to E.J. Meyer Memorial (ECMC) and received an injection by Bernard H. Smith, M.D. head neurologist, after being asked:
Are you William G. Iannaccone? Is your father Peter Iannaccone who was a patient at the Canandaigua Veteran’s Hospital?

ECMC is currently in contempt of a Court Order for the release of record of injection- most likely research in chemicals causing genetic mutation resulting in FSH-Muscular Dystrophy in William’s son, Sol, born on 7/29/71.) See NYS Supreme Court file# H-50268 Motion for to Compel Compliance with prior Order for Discovery (not in file docket)-Exh #12
(See also page 5, paragraph 16 of the above described Iannaccone/Harcrow affidavit-Exh. #9)

*See my blog "Family Affidavit (subscribed 7/28/05) to Sen. Clinton re Release of Medical Record of Injection, " at http://www.myspace.com/redchameleon

And, see ABC News Closeup, 1/30/79 pg. 62, re: CIA’s research in chemical mutants Exh # 13.

3/8/68

William is adjudged to be a PIN and placed on probation under the supervision of Gerald M. Marek who advised Mamie to have William admitted to E.J Meyer (E.C.M.C) for observation.

8/5/68 – 12/68

From 8/5 -8/24/68 William is admitted to E.J. Meyer (ECMC) for observation and from 8/24/68 to 12/68 was being seen by Rev. Lawrence B. Hardy Chaplin/Therapist who subjected William to sadistic psychological tests, suggestions and assaults targeting his manhood, sexual identity and attempted to make him identify with his “paranoid-schizophrenic” father.

Hardy extracts William’s semen under hypnosis and was in the direct control of its disposition. (See page 7&8, paragraph 24 of Iannaccone/Harcrow Affidavit-Exh. # 9)

*See my blog "Family Affidavit (subscribed 7/28/05) to Sen. Clinton re Release of Medical Record of Injection, " at http://www.myspace.com/redchameleon

7/26/69 -8/4/69

William is readmitted to E.J. Meyer Memorial (ECMC). Hardy writes in his medical notes “Talked to pts (patients) mothers attorney a Mr. Musarra who seemed like a pretty good fellow & was willing to go along w (with) our treatment plan.” See medical notes dated 8/69- Exh. #14.

Mamie is now informed by Musarra and her family members not to tell William about the one million dollars investment in bonds that was embezzled from his father.

9/69-9/72

William returns to Amherst Senior High in 9/69 after leaving at age 16 and obtains HS Diploma in 6/71. William marries and has a son, Sol, and moves his family to S.F., Cali. to attend the Academy of Art College in summer of 1972. William later attends the California Institute of Asian Studies. Marie Law convinced William’s mother that William married a “butana,” (Italian for bum) to prevent Mamie from telling William about his father’s embezzled million dollars. To the contrary William’s wife was a very good girl and mother.


1972

Evelyn Harcrow testifies in a sworn statement filed in the NYS Supreme Court, Index # 27,466 that Peter’s US Savings Bonds were negotiated in 1972 and were valued at one million dollars. And that Peter and Mamie were legally separated. (See Harcrow affidavit filed on 3/31/2004-Exh. #15)

1978

Mamie before passing away on 10/15/78 provides William with a security file box and says:

“Son, there are things that people made me do. I don’t have the heart to tell you. No one’s going to help you. You are going to have to figure it out for yourself. This way I’ll know you’ll be alright.”

Contained in the file box was the above letter from Arthur F. Musarra, dated July 22, 1965 (Exh. #10) regarding the reciprocal wills & estate waivers; bank accounts, checks, insurance numbers, correct social security numbers used for Peter & Mamie and letter from Bernard H. Smith, M.D. (which jogs William’s memory of the unusual questions, prior to the injection as described supra. See letter from Bernard H Smith, M.D. dated 1/23/69 –Exh. #16)

Also, left behind by Mamie was a picture of her in front of Harrah’s Casino in Las Vagas in 1972 joined by her cousin Phil Napoli a narcotics trafficker who had ties to Stephano Magaddino the don of the Niagara Falls region. Napoli moved to San Francisco in 1960 just prior to the Haight- Ashbury hippie invasion. Also in the picture is “Bucky” Cimminelli a Buffalo construction magnate. (See picture of Mamie and Phil Napoli- Exh. #17)

Also, left behind by Mamie tucked away in William’s grade school work books are the 1040 Individual Income Tax Returns filed by Mamie from 1956 to 1976. These returns show no social security number used for Peter previous to and including 1971. 1972 is missing. Beginning in 1973 through 1976 William’s social security number is substituted for Peter’s.

(See, 1040s for 1971 & 1973-Exh. # 18).

William obtains from the NYS Dept of Insurance a copy of Prudential Insurance check payable to William negotiated at the M&T Bank on 12/6/77. William’s signature is forged by Mamie. The second endorser on the check is William’s Uncle Joseph Pezzino a member of the Buffalo Mafia. The signature matches a note written by Joe Pezzino to William on 10/17/85.

(See copy of front & back of check and note-Exh. #19)

Joe Pezzino cousin to William- owner of Samuel’s Grande Manor concedes it was Uncle Joe who cashed in the bonds in 1972.

According to William’s long-time friend John Mallon who works for the IRS the above information, including the IRS Returns, picture of Mamie in Las Vagas in 1972 and affidavit by Evelyn Harcrow show that the bonds were embezzled by Uncle Joe in 1972-most likely in the same manner as the Prudential check at the M&T Bank where the VA had a direct deposit program set up for veterans. The million dollars was then laundered in Harrah’s Casino by Mamie and her cousin Phil Napoli in 1972-where he most likely had the connections to launder drug money as well-and then reported as gambled away using William’s social security number on the 1972 IRS returns.

1973 -78

Sam Pezzino uses the laundered million dollars to invest in luxury apartments including Kingswood Apartments and Samuel’s Grande Manor. The funds are then transferred to Marie Law (Mamie’s sister) who moves to Florida in around 1986.

1978

Marie Law (sister to Mamie) who did the banking for her and who was close to her brother Joseph Pezzino who was a member of the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia files a Death Cert. for Mamie that substituted William’s son Sol’s social security number for Mamie’s and records she does not know her mother’s maiden name (Napoli). This was later corrected by William.

See original and corrected Death Cert. of Mamie Exh. # 20

1982

Uncle Joe Pezzino visits William and threatens “I’ll blow your head off.” Previous threats include “I’ll break your back.” These threats follow William’s Surrogate Court interventions and investigation of one-million dollars in embezzled bonds by William.

5/1984

William contacts the IRS, Criminal Div. to make a criminal investigation into the embezzled bonds valued at one million dollars. By letter dated May 16, 1984, Ronald D. Pyszczynski, Disclosure Specialist, provides William a seven page memorandum report by Estate Tax Attorney Nicholas R. Critelli, where on page 6, paragraph 2 it states:

“Letter from U.S. Dept. of Treasury, Fiscal Services, dated 1/27/84, in response to the examiner’s letter and phone conversation regarding U.S. Savings Treasury certificates registered in the name of the decedent states that they made a through search of records and can find no accounts open or closed from the information provided.”

>>> (See below at (12/10/87) for subsequent discovery by William of 33 U.S. Bonds in Mamie’s & Williams name proving the above inquiry erroneous.)

Also, Critelli report of 5/16/84 did not include and investigate the accounts in the name of Mamie Iannaccone and Peter Iannaccone at the Manufactures & Traders Trust bank.
(See IRS Memoradum, dated 5/16/84-Item #21).
>>>An Abandoned Account in the name of Mamie Iannaccone ATF Sol Iannaccone (Mamie’s grandson) is revealed by letter dated 4/1/80 sent by M&T Bank proving Mamie did have accounts with M&T 3 years prior to her death on 10/15/78. Also, M&T checks in Marie Law’s handwriting signing for Mamie’s Prudential Life Insurance premiums, dated1968-1977 further prove Mamie had accounts with M&T Bank. Marie did the all the banking for Mamie who was illiterate.

See copy M&T letter dtd. 4/1/80 & M&T checks (front & back) Exh. # 22

Also quoted in the IRS report:

“The examiner Nicholas Critelli, notes from the examination of the Erie County Surrogate’s file #78-6265 a Petition for Judicial Settlement signed by Marie Law, executrix that the petitioner stated the decedent’s estate was not subject to New York Transfer Tax.
Schedule A in the Petition lists bank accounts totaling $45,081.25 plus post death interest of $8,161.91 which totaled a gross New York estate of $53,243.16. No real estate or life insurance was noted in the Petition for Judicial Settlement.
The examiner noted from the Criminal Investigation Division file information that the decedent did own life insurance of two policies not disclosed in the Judicial Settlement of the decedent’s estate, namely Metropolitan Life Insurance, group #14818T for $7,658.37 and Prudential Insurance, M53013892 for $742.67. Total life insurance is $8,404.00
Examiner also noted from the Criminal Investigation Division file information that the decedent did transfer title to real estate at 4121 North Bailey Avenue, Buffalo, New York to her sister, Marie Law on 10/6/78, just prior to the decedent’s death on 10/15/78. Marie Law subsequently sold this property to Ronald and Susan Sennane (Ron Cenname-my cousin) on 12/8/80 for a price of $43,000.
From the information above, it appears that after and even including the real estate and even including the insurance not reported in the gross estate of the decedent, that a gross estate of $104,404.00 would result, if no other assets were discovered belonging to the decedents and determined to be included in the decedent’s gross estate.
The decedent died on 10/15/78. The threshold amount required for filing a Form 706, Federal Estate Tax return in 1978 was $134,000. Assuming that only $104,404. would be includable in the decedent’s gross estate, and additional $29,596. of assets would have to be not only discovered, but determined to be includable in the decedent’s gross estate in order to require filing of Form 706.
The examiner concludes that there will be not sufficient assets established and determined includable in the gross estate so as to require the filing of Form 706.”

9/1984

Betty Fuhery was going to appear in the Surrogate Court in support of William to acknowledge the 1965 will made by Arthur F. Musarra, Esq and one-million dollars investment in US Bonds embezzled by Joe Pezzino. Betty also was willing to sign a notarized letter to testify to the above, but states she was visited by Joe Pezzino who threatened her. Betty states to William she would be shot by Uncle Joe and no one would find out who did it. So Betty does not sign the letter or appear in court.

See, 9/84 letter (unsigned) Exh. # 23

2/27/85

Article appears in Buffalo News regarding the Onyx criminal case involving M&T University Plz Branch, Ex-Banker Carl Mastykarz, Rev. William F. White III (a family friend who married Betty) and Joe Fino, long time member of Local 210. See 2/27/85 & (...) News Article Item 24

3/8/1985

During Surrogate Court proceeding involving Marie Law’s accounting of assets belonging to the estate of Mamie Iannacone Thomas F. Martin III, William’s best friend is shot in the head in his bed on 3/8/85.

1985

In the summer of 1985 William is threatened by his maternal second cousin Anthony Bolea who confronts William & Peter in a car in front of Joe Pezzino’s restaurant Big John’s Pizzeria. Bolea approached the car from the left rear side of the Pizzeria. Bolea is holding a small couch pillow under one arm while extending his thumb upward and pointing with his index finger at the pillow-in the definite shape of a gun.
In Oct. 1985 Joe Pezzino William’s uncle threatens William by stating/gesturing: “You know your buddy Tom Martin?” He then puffs out his chest, points his thumb to his chest, grins wide and yells “Alright.”
Joe Pezzino then takes up residence in the apartment above William & his father after William moves to the lower apt to avoid a legal eviction. William finds a live-in girlfriend, purchases a home for his father and moves out by Nov. 1986.

1985

According to Cert. of Marriage Registration, signed by the City Clerk, obtained by William on 5/24/85, # 475- Record No. 815, Year of 1938- Peter was married to Mamie on April 24, 1938. Note: City Clerk personnel state that a copy of the original marriage license is illegible so the Cert. of Marriage Registration is provided as a substitute.
(See Cert of Marriage Reg. dated 5/24/85 Exh. # 25

Note: Mamie was also given a Cert of Marriage rather than an actual copy on 8/30/50 only 12 years after the claimed marriage date of 4/38 (raising serous doubt actual copy exists).

12/10/1987

Resulting from a request for investigation of bonds by William by letter dated 10/21/87 the Dept. of Treasury responds by letter of 12/10/87 revealing 28 unpaid bonds registered under Mamie or Gary Iannaccone and 5 paid bonds.
See 12/10/87 letter by DOT Exh. # 26

2/29/1988

Resulting from further request for investigations of bonds by William by letter dated 1/15/88 the Dept of the Treasury responds by letter of 2/29/88 stating “a search of our Series E records in all denominations from 10/1957-12/1978…did not disclose the issuance of any securities.”
See copy of DOT letter dtd. 2/29/88 Exh # 27.

3/17/88

In response to a Judicial Subpoena received 3/14/88 the Dept of the Treasury responds by letter dated 3/17/88 stating: “A search of the Dept’s Series G, H, and E registration records for May 1941 through January 1979 with the names, addresses and social security account numbers furnished disclosed the issuance of several bonds, all of which were redeemed more than 10 years ago, with the exception of 32 bonds registered in the name of Mamie Iannaccone with Gary Iannaccon named as coowner which were retired by this office as undeliverable and are presently being reissued to Gary Iannaccone.” See DOT letter dated 3/17/88 Exh. # 28

4/1/88

William receives a check for the bonds found in the amount of $6,259.88 See copy of check Exh. # 29

2/2/89

In a Buffalo News Article of 2/2/89, Michael Beebe, reveals Local 210 member Ron Fino worked for the CIA from 1965 – 1969 as a SUNY at Buffalo student informer to infiltrate the Students for a Democratic Society. Ron’s father Joe was mob capo. The CIA recruited students as part of Operation Chaos, an unauthorized domestic spying op in the late 1960’s.
In the article Fino said “he was feeding it (CIA) information on Students for a Democratic Society” who were organizing anti-Vietnam War protests. Curiously enough, scores of SDS swallowed-up on-campus LSD and many went from pragmatic left-wing radicals to wide-eyed, soul searching, fringed avatars.
Note: Millions of dollars of CIA research grants were paid to professors and psychological researchers at Universities across the U.S to experiment with psychedelic drugs (See ABC News Closeup: Mission Mind Control, 1/30/79 transcripts pg 6, 25 & 34, Item #30)
Incidentally, in the same Buffalo News Article Fino said he used his Mafia connections to help the CIA look for possible mob connections in the John F. Kennedy assassination

After his stint with the CIA Fino becomes an informer for the FBI in 1972 at age 24 while taking over Local 210. As described above (at 2/27/85) Fino later got in hot water when the Buffalo News revealed a fraudulent minority front company he was involved in-the Onyx Construction and Equipment Co. Fino now says it was a government sting set up in 1978 aimed at former mob boss Sam Pieri.

Note: U.S Attorney Richard D. Kaufman (who I have worked with on these investigations since 1985) remarked to me that when Fino started singing to the press he was in hot water in a criminal proceeding. Was Fino using the press to gain leverage for leniency in the criminal case by coming forward to say he worked for the CIA during the late 1960’s at UB? What else does he know that the CIA did not want him to reveal? Most likely it had to do with the Mafia-CIA links in Mk-Ultra that even Fino did not know the depths of-that I uncovered.

See Buffalo News article 2/2/89 Item # 31
* See my blogs "Press Release-Mk-Utra Survivor Finds Missing Link Proves CIA Caused Drug Crisis" and "Buffalo's Unraveling Nexus of OC, CIA, FBI and Nazi-type Experiments," at http://www.myspace.com/redchameleon

1992

My father passed away on 4/20/92. Four days prior, I was first informed my father was eligible for Medicare & Widower’s Insurance since 1976. I was misinformed by SSA since 1983 that his father was not entitled to Medicare or SSA Insurance benefits.
The SSA claimed the now uncovered 1976 application for Peter was filed incorrectly, yet did not produce the record. I litigated the case in the U.S. District Court and twice prevailed in the U.S. Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit. On the second appeal in 2001 the SSA “deemed” Peter’s application as filed correctly. I recovered over $104,000.00 for SSA benefits entitled to Peter from 1976-1992, plus court fees.

See U.S.C.A., 2nd Cir. Summary Order of Jan. 17, 2001 and copy of SSA checks, Exh. # 32.

Incidentally, on a print out from Social Security showing the wages earned by Mamie from 1951- 1976 whereupon it states earnings made in 1972 as $6,806. it shows “Mary Naples” for mother’s maiden name (rather than correctly as Napoli).
It also shows that the DOF -date of filing of SSA application for Peter as 11/76.
See SSA print out Exh # 33

Summary

The Dept. of Treasury (DOT) has stated in their letter of May 23, 1988:

“…In 1980, the savings bond regulations were amended to provide notice to owners that photographic copies of paid bonds would no longer be available 10 years after the bonds are cashed. Such bonds are presumed to have been properly paid. This means that in the absence of other evidence, the Treasury will assume that the proper owner(s) received payment. The Government continues to stand ready to replace or pay any bond that is shown not to have been paid.
The Courts have said that the savings bond owners must exercise reasonable diligence in making a claim for bonds purportedly lost. Otherwise, if the bonds have been cashed, the 6-year statue of limitations applies…”
(see DOT letter of 5/23/88 Exh # 34).

Clearly, this is a criminal case involving allegations of embezzlement and laundering of a one-million dollar investment of US Savings Bonds derived from the federal V.A. funds belonging to a WWII Veteran. And, tax evasion and claim of responsibility for an act of murder in an attempt to thwart an ongoing investigation thereof.

Further, Peter was confined to the VA Canandaigua Hospital since 1944 and legally declared an Incompetent person in 1960, where no committee was appointed and not able to make a claim for these bonds embezzled from him as described above.

The DOT must produce the complete registration records of Peter/Mamie & William Gary Iannaccone to avoid a continuation of the obstruction of justice in a criminal matter. The registration records include the name, address and more recently social security number of bond owners, the denomination and how the bond was negotiated (when the bonds were redeemed and who redeemed them) and serves as the probative evidence in the above alleged crimes. See Audio Tape- Notes of 5/31/88 of Chuck McGowen of the Federal Reserve Bank, Buffalo, NY. Exh. #35.

The DOT already reissued 28 bonds that were registered in the names of Mamie or (William) Gary Iannaccone. The DOT was informed by William that the 28 bonds were not in his possession and the 5 redeemed bonds were not redeemed by him. According to Randy Shepard, of the DOT the missing bonds were returned to Wash, D.C., and received on 12/3/87 and then sent and received by DOT in Parkersburg, VA on 12/24/87. Randy states “I don’t know who sent them.”
Most likely those bonds were in the possession and sent to Wash. D.C. by Marie Law who was the benefactor of the 5 (fraudulently) redeemed bonds belonging to William.
Yet, the DOT did not properly conduct a through investigation of the registration records even at that time to account for the remaining one-million dollar investment in bonds embezzled from Peter, as described above.
See Taped Notes dated 3/4/88. Exh. #35.

The DOT is liable for this fraudulent payment of one million in bonds belonging to Peter a US Veteran derived from his U.S Government issued disability payments which were embezzled and laundered by William's maternal Uncle and second cousin who were members of the Buffalo Sicilian Mafia.
Further Actions

William intends to provide an open letter of evidence to the IG of the DOT with supporting letter from U.S. Attorney Richard D. Kaufman and additional letter of support signed by National Lawyers Guild members and other lawyers and law students. The evidence will include some of the information herein and additional evidence including new affidavits and video testimonials of family relatives to compel the production of the complete registration records of embezzled/laundered bonds for the recovery of the embezzled/laundered one million dollars.

Note: Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard D. Kaufman has closely followed this entire investigation by William. Richard D. Kaufman has stated although he has notified the FBI to organized crime involvement in the embezzlement/laundering of a million dollars bonds and the claim of execution style murder of Thomas F. Martin III where the underlying motive was a threat to William in an attempt to thwart the investigation of embezzled/laundered U.S. Savings Bonds belong to a U.S. Veteran, the FBI are not properly investigating these alleged crimes involving organized crime.

Richard D. Kaufman is following William’s actions with the DOT and wants to reopen the murder investigation of Thomas F. Martin III and relying on William for further information related to be above crimes.

It should also be noted that the FBI/CIA/LE experimented on Whitey Bulger, and he leveraged it to his advantage with the FBI. Here are some links:
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/27/18 09:41 PM

HOW TODARO USED UNION TO GET CONTOL OF DIPLOMAT HOTEL; & HOW HE USED IT:
[Linked Image]

Cariola headed up the large Western New York Maritime Trades Department of the AFL-CIO. Over the years Cariola and I [Ron Fino] were together on hundreds of occasions and our conversations always pertained to mob activity. It was Cariola who arranged for a couple of International Unions to loan the Diplomat Hotel (located in Hollywood, Florida) needed money. Eventually the hotel was purchased by the Plumbers and Pipe Fitters Union for $ 800 million. Joe Todaro Sr., Sam Cariola and numerous mobsters would have their evening meal at the plush beach-located hotel in a secret vaulted room which was built to hold clandestine conversations. Cariola and his legal cohort, David Knoll, also arranged for the Todaro Family to purchase the Golden Strand Hotel in Florida. After the Todaros and Nicholas “Sonny” Mauro took ownership, we, as well as a number of other union representatives, were required to stay there while in Florida.—Ron Fino in The Triangle Exit
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/27/18 11:01 PM

"Todaro was charged with no crimes". Common occurrence for him and his. Kind of like how all of law enforcement knows he murdered that salesman found in his trunk on Sheridan Dr. Way back. Kind of wonder if he was a Whitey Bulger type snitch to operate like he did. Wouldn't shock me. And before anyone objects to such an accusation it's proven fact that Lucky Luciano himself was a snitch in the early 1920s to escape heroin charges.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/27/18 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
"Todaro was charged with no crimes". Common occurrence for him and his. Kind of like how all of law enforcement knows he murdered that salesman found in his trunk on Sheridan Dr. Way back. Kind of wonder if he was a Whitey Bulger type snitch to operate like he did. Wouldn't shock me. And before anyone objects to such an accusation it's proven fact that Lucky Luciano himself was a snitch in the early 1920s to escape heroin charges.


I don’t know if he was a snitch. May not have had to been. The more I read, the more I believe the FBI field office in Buffalo had a mutually beneficial arrangement with the Buffalo Crime Family well into Todaro’s reign at least into the mid ‘90’s. At the very least, if what Iannaccone writes is true, Todaro could blackmailed the Buffalo Office about their role in the MKUltra experiments as they partnered in delivering drugs to discredit the hippy movement and for the experiments. That is how Bulger used his MKUltra experience to his advantage.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/28/18 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
And before anyone objects to such an accusation it's proven fact that Lucky Luciano himself was a snitch in the early 1920s to escape heroin charges.


Didn't Lucky snitch against himself? If I recall correctly, he told the cops where a heroin stash was, but he didn't tell them that it was actually his own heroin..
Posted By: hoodlum

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/28/18 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by WhackWhack
And before anyone objects to such an accusation it's proven fact that Lucky Luciano himself was a snitch in the early 1920s to escape heroin charges.


Didn't Lucky snitch against himself? If I recall correctly, he told the cops where a heroin stash was, but he didn't tell them that it was actually his own heroin..

It's in his semi autobiography written by that Martin guy something or other..
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/28/18 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by WhackWhack
And before anyone objects to such an accusation it's proven fact that Lucky Luciano himself was a snitch in the early 1920s to escape heroin charges.


Didn't Lucky snitch against himself? If I recall correctly, he told the cops where a heroin stash was, but he didn't tell them that it was actually his own heroin..


Maybe in Boardwalk Empire or his own book but it is from Luckys prostitution trial. Dewey brought out evidence that Lucky ratted on even bigger heroin dealers then himself in 1923. Lucky responded and I quote "I told them what I knew". Lucky gave up an actual person not just drugs itself. Lucky was a rat and it doesn't surprise me. His last words were wanting to get into the movies one way or the other...probably got whacked at that airport.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/28/18 04:08 PM

good stuff Nickle
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/28/18 06:31 PM

Havent heard from Loscalzo in a while. Ive figured out that he was only an expert on attacking people with different views on Buffalo than him and no other family. I hope all is well with him though and that he can contribute something relevant to other threads other than one he has no other info on other than articles hes read.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 05/29/18 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Havent heard from Loscalzo in a while. Ive figured out that he was only an expert on attacking people with different views on Buffalo than him and no other family. I hope all is well with him though and that he can contribute something relevant to other threads other than one he has no other info on other than articles hes read.


He has been strangely absent, and doesn’t post much on other threads. But I can’t fault him for that, cause I don’t either. I’ll read the others, but don’t really know enough about the other families to make much of a contribution.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/07/18 04:45 PM

Just got a fairly new book called Business or Blood: Mafia Boss Vito Rizuuto's Last War by the Toronto area crime writer and mob expert Peter Edwards. It has some good background information on Paolo Violi's relationship with Buffalo Don Maggadino and their complicated relationships with the Bonannos, Contronis, and Rizzutos. It, also, highlights Paolo's activity in the drug trade to which his sons (Giuseppe "Joe" and Dominick) later got involved. The Violi brothers were arrested for drug trafficking the Canadian Otremens operation in November 2017. It, also, indicates the extent to which Buffalo was involved with and controlled what happened in Canada especially Toronto, but including Montreal. It says Magaddino considered Montreal "his house." This is good book. I highly recommend it. Here is part of a chapter that highlights Violi:

Quote
The murder of Nick Jr. got people talking again about Nicolò Rizzuto's private war two generations earlier with Paolo Violi.

Nicolò and Violi had been rivals in the old décina of Vic (The Egg) Cotroni, back when Vic the Egg was the Canadian branch plant manager for the Bonanno family of New York. Nicolò could barely stomach being under Vic Cotroni in the Montreal mob pecking order, and when Cotroni promoted his fellow Calabrian Violi above Rizzuto, Nicolò responded with a haughty grandeur. The prospect of being under two Calabrians was too much to countenance. He didn’t just disobey Violi; he refused even to acknowledge his existence. Tensions were so high between Paolo Violi and Nicolò that Giuseppe Settecasi, head of the Agrigento crime family, travelled to Montreal in 1972 to mediate, with no success.

Later that year, when Violi could stand Nicolò’s insolence no longer, he asked the Bonannos for permission to kill him. The Bonannos initially balked, then relented. Wise to the conversation happening behind his back, Nicolò slipped away to Venezuela, where he could bide his time and extend his contacts.

Like many bitter enemies, Nicolò and Violi had much in common. Violi had also married into power. His father-in-law was Giacomo (Jack) Luppino of Hamilton, an ’Ndrangheta boss and lieutenant of Stefano (The Undertaker) Magaddino of Buffalo. Luppino was said to carry the leathery ear of a rival in his wallet, like a treasure that could never be deposited in a bank. In November 1967, police listened in on Luppino through microphones hidden among his tomato plants and elsewhere around his red brick house on Ottawa Street North in east end Hamilton. They heard him explain how horrible things should be done to a man who was disloyal to his wife. Paolo Violi shared his father-in-law’s rigid sense of morality. That kind of talk was never heard from Vito or his father when police listened in on their conversations, even though Nicolò was of a similar if less punishing mind about marital infidelity.

Police also overheard Luppino talking about a wedding in New York at which he’d crossed paths with his boss, Stefano Magaddino. The highlight of Luppino’s evening came when Magaddino deigned to spend twenty minutes with him.

Magaddino was in an angry mood that evening. He complained that he had also invited Paolo Violi and Vic Cotroni to the wedding, but neither of them showed up. Violi had a credible excuse, as he explained that he was always under police surveillance and he didn’t want to bring that heat to New York. That was a permissible, even courteous response. But Cotroni? Vic the Egg had said only that he was too busy, as he had matters before the court. Such insolence rendered Magaddino livid, or, in the words of Luppino, he “turned mad like a beast.”

Magaddino said Violi and Cotroni had a choice: they could side with his cousin Giuseppe (Joe) Bonanno of New York City or with himself. They couldn’t be loyal to both. Bonanno and Magaddino might be related, but they couldn’t stand each other. Magaddino’s anger peaked as he told Luppino about a November 1966 meeting in Montreal between Bonanno’s son Salvatore (Bill) and Cotroni. Cotroni didn’t bother to tell Magaddino before attending the meeting, which also included half a dozen men from the New York Mafia. Magaddino heard that Bill Bonanno told Cotroni at the meeting that Montreal belonged to his father, Joe Bonanno. Vic the Egg’s response? He just sheepishly listened to Bonanno’s arrogance.

It was bad enough that Bonanno would say something so stupid, but for Cotroni to say nothing in Magaddino’s defence was unacceptable. How could Magaddino remain calm when he heard of such a slur? And why hadn’t Cotroni told him beforehand about the meeting? Had Bonanno and the visiting New Yorkers not been arrested shortly afterwards, Magaddino could have started a small war over the slight. In Don Stefano’s eyes, Montreal was his territory and Cotroni commited nothing less than an act of treason by meeting with the Americans there without his permission. How he came to the conclusion that Quebec was his turf was anyone’s guess, but he considered this to be an absolute truth. And in his mind, he must know anything of significance that happened there. As Luppino recalled his words: “I don’t care what others do, all I want to know is what is done in my house.”

To rectify the damage Cotroni had done, Magaddino wanted Luppino to move to Montreal to assert control on the Buffalo boss’s behalf. However, Luppino preferred life in Hamilton, amidst his tomato plants. Ambitious people had a way of getting shot in Montreal, and Luppino had a good life in the Ontario steel town, with his family, his respect and his tomatoes. As Luppino put his refusal, “Stefano Magaddino is the biggest man in the world, but not even he can lead me by the arm and tell me what to do.”

Nicolò realized that his rival Paolo Violi had connections to more than just Luppino and Magaddino. Violi’s reach also stretched back to the emerging ’Ndrangheta in his native Calabria, including the heroin and cocaine trafficker Saverio (The Playboy) Mammoliti of Castellace di Oppido Mamertina in the province of Reggio Calabria, the ’Ndrangheta heartland. Mammoliti was best known for his role in the 1973 kidnapping of sixteen-year-old John Paul Getty III, bohemian grandson of oil tycoon Jean Paul Getty, the world’s richest man. Even the mobsters must have been startled by the coldness of Getty Sr.’s initial response, when he refused to cough up a cent: “If I pay one penny now, I’ll have fourteen kidnapped grandchildren.” Eventually, the old man grudgingly agreed to a payment. Some of the estimated $2.2 million in ransom money, paid after the youth’s ear was hacked off, was tracked down by police in an investigation that led them to Montreal streets.

Paolo Violi cultivated the image of an old-school boss, the kind of mobster who stayed out of the nasty emerging business of drugs. Word on the street suggested he was actually elbow deep in it. When two American undercover drug agents of Italian descent told Mammoliti in 1973 they wanted to make a major drug deal, they were instructed that if they wanted heroin, they needed to get in touch with “his friend Paolo Violi” in Canada…
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/07/18 05:41 PM

BUFFALO CRIME FAMILY APPARENTLY REVIVING ITSELF AS LATE AS 2012/2013 ACCORDING TO TORONTO OC EXPERT PETER EDWARDS

I took a break from directly asserting that the Buffalo Crime Family was organized and active. Now, I've come across more evidence that they are. In a book by mob expert and Toronto area crime reporter for The Star called Business or Blood: Mafia Boss Vito Rizuuto's Last War, Peter Edwards states: The old Magaddino family of Buffalo was attempting a revival through loansharking at Casino Niagara on the American border. This is in a chapter 40 titled "Nonstop Hits" that relates to the Calabrians, Rizutto, and a party in the Vaughn area that was held for those involved with the Platinum Sports Book in January of 2013 (See Kindle Location 3453). The following is the last paragraph of this chapter and summarizes that chapter thusly:

Quote
At the time of the Platinum SB party, the Bonanno family’s credibility hung at a historic low, never having recovered from the defection of its former boss Joe Massino. The family’s failure to avenge the murder of Salvatore Montagna had called particular attention to their weakness. In Ontario, the New York City crime families with the most influence now were the Luccheses and Gambinos, and to a lesser extent the Genoveses. The old Magaddino family of Buffalo was attempting a revival through loansharking at Casino Niagara on the American border. This revived La Cosa Nostra was more loosely structured now, and more of a network than a tight organization. Contacts, expertise and experience were shared across organizational lines, for mutual benefit. These weren’t particularly friendly waters for Vito, but he had navigated far worse.

{Source: Edwards, Peter. Business or Blood: Mafia Boss Vito Rizzuto's Last War (Kindle Locations 3480-3486). Random House of Canada. Kindle Edition.}

To me it appears the Canadian reporters/newspapers know things we don't know or haven't paid attention to. In my opinion, this is why they keep making the connection between the Otremens Arrests and Buffalo/Todaro Crime Family. I think they want people to know that there is more here than meets the eye. Again, this does not prove anything, but it is the most compelling evidence to date that the Buffalo Crime family is organized and attempting a revival--if, it hasn't already done so!

Additionally, one can make a good connection to what is going on in Canada and Benjamin "Sonny" Nicoletti and Frank "Butchie" BiFulco. Nicoletti was alleged to be Buffalo's boss before his death in 2012. Then Frank "Butchie" Bifulco allegedly took over. They both worked closely with the Paplias, Luppinos, and Violi's in the late 90's and early 2000's according to a leaked RCMP document. (See my previous post with photo of this document on this thread.)
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/07/18 07:43 PM

Good stuff Nickle. I referenced the new casinos actually helping Buffalo and every one thought I was an idiot.

They are alive and viable bottomline. As ive said for years.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/07/18 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Good stuff Nickle. I referenced the new casinos actually helping Buffalo and every one thought I was an idiot.

They are alive and viable bottomline. As ive said for years.



According to Edwards, you were not an idiot, instead you were very much right!!

On another note, I wonder how much "evidence" it will take for those who said the Buffalo family is dead, and belittled those who suggested otherwise to admit there good evidence that suggests this crime family is alive. Again, this doesn't prove it is alive, but dang if it doesn't lend credibility to what we've been saying all along. They can definitely point to articles and experts to verify their position, but I think they can no longer say we are operating only in the arena of hearsay and making this stuff up.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/07/18 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Good stuff Nickle. I referenced the new casinos actually helping Buffalo and every one thought I was an idiot.

They are alive and viable bottomline. As ive said for years.


Additionally, this quote lends credibility to what you've stated over and over again, that the Buffalo Crime family may not be organized in a traditional way. According to Edwards LCN is:

Quote
...more loosely structured now, and more of a network than a tight organization. Contacts, expertise and experience were shared across organizational lines, for mutual benefit.


I think you and I have both been saying that Buffalo has learned a lot about "loose structure" and "sharing across organizational lines" because of its long history with Ndrangheta clans in Hamilton and Toronto.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/08/18 12:50 AM

Clear they have been influenced by the Canadian structuring and Im sure a case could be made for Detroit as well
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/08/18 11:18 AM

Crickets from Loscalzo, Billy and the Jew....

Sucks to be wrong guys eh?

Corny a** b***** smile
Posted By: Homers77

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/08/18 12:23 PM

Interesting stuff... however it talks about the Luchese family being stronger then the Genovese family which I don’t think is accurate in 2018.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/08/18 12:29 PM

Where is that said Homers?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/08/18 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Homers77
Interesting stuff... however it talks about the Luchese family being stronger then the Genovese family which I don’t think is accurate in 2018.


Peter Edwards is actually suggesting that the Luchese family was stronger than the Genovese family in the Greater Toronto Area during the 2012-2013 period. Not that they were stronger in general.
Posted By: The_Rooster

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/09/18 01:07 PM

R.I.P. Loscalzo
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by The_Rooster
Crickets from Loscalzo, Billy and the Jew....

Sucks to be wrong guys eh?

Corny a** b***** smile



Sucks worse to be banned, Rooster. Buh-bye!
Posted By: Scalish

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 12:45 AM

Thank you SC. Rooster was brutal. Reminded me of someone else that was here before always chanting about Buffalo the Arm.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Scalish
Thank you SC. Rooster was brutal. Reminded me of someone else that was here before always chanting about Buffalo the Arm.


Rooster said some things... Seen a lot of other people do it too. I find your last statement telling and off putting as someone’s who likes to research and post about Buffalo. I guess that could be construed as chanting especially given the fact I believe the family is active. Scalish, I’m just kindly expressing how your comment belittles. Thank you for hearing my perspective and taking it into consideration.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 02:51 AM

Sources say the Todaro crime family has issued a collective sigh of relief now that Rooster, their main whistleblower, has been silenced.
@Nickle it wasn’t Rooster’s thoughts on Buffalo that were the problem. It was that every single thread I was in, Rooster would chime in and start arguments.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 06:42 AM

Nickel,

Great find....

That was my best guess that these guys were trying something somewhere with the base in Canada.

I knew they were NOT flipping burgers in Mcdonalds.

Poor Rooster he was finally vindicated after years of arguing his point and he gets banned.














Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Nickel,

Poor Rooster he was finally vindicated after years of arguing his point and he gets banned.



He wasn't banned for thinking Buffalo is a viable family. There's no problem with that. If that was the case, NickleCity would be gone too, but since he's a respectful poster, he's still here.
Rooster was banned for derailing multiple threads that had nothing to do with Buffalo..

And even then, he's not truly vindicated, because it's still one article written by one expert against the entire federal government, other equally reputable mob experts, Buffalo turncoats, DAs, and federal prosecutors. And it offers nothing specific other than an "attempt" at a revival. Many other families attempted revivals as well, and it doesn't mean those families are still active. Cleveland attempted a revival in the '80s or '90s IIRC. Didn't work. Rochester attempted a revival in the 1990s. Didn't work. The Trafficantes inducted new members and pushed into Miami in the 1990s as a revival attempt. Didn't work. I assume there are other examples.

And nobody's saying these guys went to flipping burgers. But 95% of reputable sources concede the family has no viable structure left, and hasn't since 2010, at the very latest. The big ticket rackets like the unions were taken away.
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Poor Rooster he was finally vindicated after years of arguing his point and he gets banned.



Rooster was finally banned for being a scumbag. I know nothing about Buffalo except it has chicken wings and the buffalo used to be on a nickel. I care even less about Buffalo. Your poor Rooster was nothing more than a disturbing influence here on the GBB and his lack of social skills combined with his lack of caring about following rules got him sent on his way.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 10:35 AM

NickyfromTampa I think that was left of buffalo family adopted a structure more similar to rizzuto family that a traditional LCN structure with a regime in canada and a regime in the US using the border to smuggle drugs. But its just my opinion.
On the families come backs: Cleveland was done after Lonardo and Zagaria flipped in the 80s and I doubt that the gambinos would let the trafficantes to turn an indipendent family.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 12:50 PM

Furio, I agree pure speculation on my part.

I look at it this way... In am in N.Y.C. and say Canada was a stone's throw away... And if I handled as.much LCN activity as could be handled in Canada,

And by doing so I more than likely would avoid R.I.C.O. wouldn't that be a smart move??

I would.hold my meetings/ making ceremonies, I would transfer the admin so the hierarchy would not get interrupted, and not have to worry as much as about guys flipping...

In my opinion that would be the smartest way for the family to re-assert itself and start to build.and then maintain.

Especially when you have the FBI stating and Re-Stating "These guys are dead"

That would be the perfect environment for a LCN family to pick up.market share and territories.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 01:26 PM

S.C.

I have seen in the past posters to whereas under their name or right by It, I would see "BANNED"?

So if you get banned you can still come on and post?

I think I seen that anyway?

Also what is to stop Rooster from re-joining in a couple of days using different name etc?

How would you know?
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
NickyfromTampa I think that was left of buffalo family adopted a structure more similar to rizzuto family that a traditional LCN structure with a regime in canada and a regime in the US using the border to smuggle drugs. But its just my opinion.
On the families come backs: Cleveland was done after Lonardo and Zagaria flipped in the 80s and I doubt that the gambinos would let the trafficantes to turn an indipendent family.


I believe they adopted a structure more similar to the Luppino family rather than Rizzuto. The Luppino family have been associates of the Buffalo family for decades and they are more low key compared to other organized crime figures.. It is a theory, but could it be that the decline of Buffalo organized crime over the years have given the Luppino's (Ndrangheta) a more important role into the Buffalo organized crime affairs. This would explain maybe why law enforcement believed it was dead.
Buffalo's Canadian counter parts which had remained unscathed,was a life line for what remained of the Buffalo organization.
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 04:46 PM

BensonHurst, the member is banned, but their posts will not be deleted.
Posted By: Homers77

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 05:20 PM

Agreed I misread my apologies....

I have no idea if Buffalo is active or not so don’t have an opinion one way or another.

It definitely appears that there is activity with Canada. But does that mean they have a fully functioning heiarchy and administration? I have no idea!
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 08:13 PM



I believe they adopted a structure more similar to the Luppino family rather than Rizzuto. The Luppino family have been associates of the Buffalo family for decades and they are more low key compared to other organized crime figures.. It is a theory, but could it be that the decline of Buffalo organized crime over the years have given the Luppino's (Ndrangheta) a more important role into the Buffalo organized crime affairs. This would explain maybe why law enforcement believed it was dead.
Buffalo's Canadian counter parts which had remained unscathed,was a life line for what remained of the Buffalo organization.
[/quote]

It would make sense if it is working for them a short distance away why not adopt It?

Also would.there really be a need to have a full hierarchy in place
???

How would that benefit the family in the now?
They will never be what they were, no more commission in place so could they get by make money and stay under the radar as a glorified crew? Or crews?
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/10/18 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST


I believe they adopted a structure more similar to the Luppino family rather than Rizzuto. The Luppino family have been associates of the Buffalo family for decades and they are more low key compared to other organized crime figures.. It is a theory, but could it be that the decline of Buffalo organized crime over the years have given the Luppino's (Ndrangheta) a more important role into the Buffalo organized crime affairs. This would explain maybe why law enforcement believed it was dead.
Buffalo's Canadian counter parts which had remained unscathed,was a life line for what remained of the Buffalo organization.


It would make sense if it is working for them a short distance away why not adopt It?

Also would.there really be a need to have a full hierarchy in place
???

How would that benefit the family in the now?
They will never be what they were, no more commission in place so could they get by make money and stay under the radar as a glorified crew? Or crews?

[/quote]

The Luppino's are related by marriage to one of the most powerful Ndrangheta clan with direct ties to Calabria.. They should not be under estimated. There probably is a hierarchy in place we just won't know it's true structure until some informant talks.
The Buffalo crews or family will benefit by doing business with the Ndrangheta that seem to have access to a vast global cocaine markets & money laundering logistics. These guy have a commission in place in Ontario and oversee at least nine families.
I would not count them out but this is just my opinion.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ciment
Originally Posted by BensonHURST


I believe they adopted a structure more similar to the Luppino family rather than Rizzuto. The Luppino family have been associates of the Buffalo family for decades and they are more low key compared to other organized crime figures.. It is a theory, but could it be that the decline of Buffalo organized crime over the years have given the Luppino's (Ndrangheta) a more important role into the Buffalo organized crime affairs. This would explain maybe why law enforcement believed it was dead.
Buffalo's Canadian counter parts which had remained unscathed,was a life line for what remained of the Buffalo organization.


It would make sense if it is working for them a short distance away why not adopt It?

Also would.there really be a need to have a full hierarchy in place
???

How would that benefit the family in the now?
They will never be what they were, no more commission in place so could they get by make money and stay under the radar as a glorified crew? Or crews?



The Luppino's are related by marriage to one of the most powerful Ndrangheta clan with direct ties to Calabria.. They should not be under estimated. There probably is a hierarchy in place we just won't know it's true structure until some informant talks.
The Buffalo crews or family will benefit by doing business with the Ndrangheta that seem to have access to a vast global cocaine markets & money laundering logistics. These guy have a commission in place in Ontario and oversee at least nine families.
I would not count them out but this is just my opinion.
[/quote]

@Ciment and Bensonhurst I believe Rooster was correct in his long help ascertain that Buffalo had adopted a lot of the ways and organization of their Canadian families or crews—specifically the Luppino’s who provided protection for the Violi brothers after their dad and Uncles were hit. One thing is clear, I don’t think we can understand Buffalo without understanding their neighbors to the North. Edwards wrote:

Quote

The old Magaddino family of Buffalo was attempting a revival through loansharking at Casino Niagara on the American border. This revived La Cosa Nostra was more loosely structured now, and more of a network than a tight organization. Contacts, expertise and experience were shared across organizational lines, for mutual benefit.


It appears the context of revived Cosa Nostra is the revived Buffalo Family, but could be LCN in general. At any rate it he is talking about then having a loose structure and sharing accross organizational lines. This sounds a lot like the N’Drangheta in Canada. Don’t know a ton about the Calibrians organizational structure, but this seems like the Calibrian clans in GTA.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity

It appears the context of revived Cosa Nostra is the revived Buffalo Family, but could be LCN in general. At any rate it he is talking about then having a loose structure and sharing accross organizational lines. This sounds a lot like the N’Drangheta in Canada. Don’t know a ton about the Calibrians organizational structure, but this seems like the Calibrian clans in GTA.


Also, I would like to point out something.
Most sources contend that in the mid-2000s, the Buffalo Mafia went the way of the dodo. With their core rackets gone, it took the "organized" out of their organized crime. Of course, a handful of Buffalo members and possibly many more associates would have survived the FBI onslaught. Some would probably expand their rackets in the vacuums created.
But most of all, the Canadian Mafia was still alive and well. The Ndrangheta organizations have continued to be active in organized crime and, with their extensive ties to Buffalo, nobody should dispute that it's possible, and likely, that they moved into Buffalo. As long as there is money to be made illegally in the city of Buffalo, somebody will always fill that niche. My argument, the FBI's argument, most crime journalists' arguments, is that the Buffalo crime family, or the Todaro crime family, is not the entity filling that niche.
But it would be silly to assume that members of the Buffalo mob, such as Nicoletti and Bifulco, would start flipping burgers. When contending that a family is extinct, some posters mistakenly assume that I am saying every member went legit. And if Nicoletti and Bifulco had extensive ties to the still-very-active Canadian crime groups, it only makes sense that they would use their connections in Buffalo to make money between the two groups. Perhaps Nicoletti and Bifulco had underlings that could assist with drug trafficking, since Buffalo has always been a conduit. Especially today with this fentanyl epidemic. Perhaps Nicoletti and Bifulco had contacts that could help the Canadian crime groups in blue collar organized crime, or vice versa. Maybe Nicoletti and Bifulco, even though their construction/union strength was severed, could call on the powerful Canadians and utilize whatever loose connections the Todaro crime family was able to maintain.

All of these are speculative, possible scenarios, and these are scenarios that I'm open to. But my argument is that the Todaro crime family, as an entity, as a Mafia crime group, is no longer active. Is there 'Mafia' in Buffalo? Yes. The Luccheses had a high-ranking associate operating there. The Canadian crime groups have continued to be linked to Buffalo to this day. But other than a vague, open-to-interpretation comment from a Canadian book, there simply isn't any viable evidence that the Buffalo crime family is a viable entity, and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 11:20 AM

I actually made the suggestion that Buffalo MIGHT be organized like Ontario, maybe even answers to Ontario.
I suggested looking into the Violis, as figuring out their affiliation would shed a lot of light on the current landscape.

I also suggested that Buffalo would be valuable as a transit point for narcotics, and with the Calabrians being dominant in cocaine, it might be an attractive territory for them.

Just had to throw that out there, Rooster didn't come up with that...
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 11:23 AM

I've posted this at LEAST a half dozen times..... From Mafia Summit....

“ Luciano and his cohorts formalized the hegemony of the modern mob in 1931, the Mafia’s first ruling Commission seated seven bosses. These included representatives from New York and Chicago, which could only be expected, but also the boss of another, smaller city, one which you might not necessarily suspect would warrant the honor. Steven Magaddino of Buffalo.
Magaddino’s name stands out on that debut Mafia Commission among such worthies as Al Capone, Charlie Luciano, Joe Bonanno, and Joe Profaci. What was a humble lakeside cousin doing in this august company? But Magaddino of Buffalo controlled the smuggling routes from Canada, and that lent him enormous weight. Within the organization schema of organized crime, the Queen City, the City of Good Neighbors, the City of Light—all chamber of commerce nicknames for Buffalo—possessed a surprising primacy.
In this sense, strictly in terms of the 1950s mob geography, the choice of Apalachin had a logic all its own. Dope was becoming more and more the new reality of the mob, and Apalachin fell squarely within the territory of Magaddino, one of the country’s leading dope smugglers. Concealed in trucks and cars rattling down from Buffalo, headed to New York City on[…]”


If it worked for heroin, I don't ANY reason whatsoever it couldn't be adapted for coke.......



Excerpt From: Reavill, Gil. “Mafia Summit.” St. Martin’s Press. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/mafia-summit/id550169050?mt=11
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 11:35 AM

I think the Luppino Ndrine could be very underestimated and misunderstood. He was one of the people who helped set up the Toronto commission, I can't ever remember what it's called, lol.

Those Violi brothers were described as having "international reach" , if that's not narcotics and connections to Calabria, I don't know jack shit about anything.

It's why I said Buffalo COULD be answering to Toronto, specifically the Commiso clan.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 11:45 AM

And I've BEEN trying to explain why a clan involved in large scale narcotics doesn't NEED 50-100 made guys.

They sacrifice territorial control, for control of a commodity, control of MARKETS.. Saviano explains better......



“Camorra groups no longer need to maintain widespread military-style control—or at least not always—because their principal business activities now take place outside Naples.
Investigations conducted by the Naples anti-Mafia prosecutor reveal that the Camorra’s flexible, federalist structure has completely transformed the fabric of the families “ instead of diplomatic alliances and stable pacts, clans now operate more like business committees. The Camorra’s flexibility reflects its need to move capital, set up and liquidate companies, circulate money, and invest quickly in real estate without geographical restrictions or heavy dependence on political mediation. The clans no longer need to organize in large bodies”

Now he was talking about Naples clans, but they operate similarly.....
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by CabriniGreen
I actually made the suggestion that Buffalo MIGHT be organized like Ontario, maybe even answers to Ontario.
I suggested looking into the Violis, as figuring out their affiliation would shed a lot of light on the current landscape.

I also suggested that Buffalo would be valuable as a transit point for narcotics, and with the Calabrians being dominant in cocaine, it might be an attractive territory for them.

Just had to throw that out there, Rooster didn't come up with that...

Sorry Cabrini should have given you credit for that... I have to admit I think that is one of the best explanations. I’ve often wondered if the power transferred to Canada and Luppino Family via Violi’s. Still believe there are American crews with Americans in those crews that operating in Buffalo area. A friend of mine owns a restaurant in the area and he’s told me stories that he’s heard from fellow restaurant owners. This is definitely hearsay, so take it for what it’s worth. These American crews may be loosely associated, but my guess is they answer-maybe to Canada.
Posted By: Gallinari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 04:35 PM

Long Live The Rooster.

@ SC, disappointed in you that you had to stoop to name calling. But youre the boss. Feel bad for you too now.

@ Loscalzo, your nonsense about Tampa still holds no weight and Ive been vindicated many times over.

All the best to Nickle, Bensonhurst, Cabrini, and Giacomo. Keep up the good posts in my absence
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by CabriniGreen
I've posted this at LEAST a half dozen times..... From Mafia Summit....

“ Luciano and his cohorts formalized the hegemony of the modern mob in 1931, the Mafia’s first ruling Commission seated seven bosses. These included representatives from New York and Chicago, which could only be expected, but also the boss of another, smaller city, one which you might not necessarily suspect would warrant the honor. Steven Magaddino of Buffalo.
Magaddino’s name stands out on that debut Mafia Commission among such worthies as Al Capone, Charlie Luciano, Joe Bonanno, and Joe Profaci. What was a humble lakeside cousin doing in this august company? But Magaddino of Buffalo controlled the smuggling routes from Canada, and that lent him enormous weight. Within the organization schema of organized crime, the Queen City, the City of Good Neighbors, the City of Light—all chamber of commerce nicknames for Buffalo—possessed a surprising primacy.
In this sense, strictly in terms of the 1950s mob geography, the choice of Apalachin had a logic all its own. Dope was becoming more and more the new reality of the mob, and Apalachin fell squarely within the territory of Magaddino, one of the country’s leading dope smugglers. Concealed in trucks and cars rattling down from Buffalo, headed to New York City on[…]"


If it worked for heroin, I don't ANY reason whatsoever it couldn't be adapted for coke.......



Excerpt From: Reavill, Gil. “Mafia Summit.” St. Martin’s Press. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/mafia-summit/id550169050?mt=11


Peter Edwards book definitely backs your point. He makes the assertion that Magaddino believed he controlled, not just Toronto, but Montreal as well. Here is the relevant quote:

Quote
Magaddino heard that Bill Bonanno told Cotroni at the meeting that Montreal belonged to his father, Joe Bonanno. Vic the Egg’s response? He just sheepishly listened to Bonanno’s arrogance.

It was bad enough that Bonanno would say something so stupid, but for Cotroni to say nothing in Magaddino’s defence was unacceptable. How could Magaddino remain calm when he heard of such a slur? And why hadn’t Cotroni told him beforehand about the meeting? Had Bonanno and the visiting New Yorkers not been arrested shortly afterwards, Magaddino could have started a small war over the slight. In Don Stefano’s eyes, Montreal was his territory and Cotroni commited nothing less than an act of treason by meeting with the Americans there without his permission. How he came to the conclusion that Quebec was his turf was anyone’s guess, but he considered this to be an absolute truth. And in his mind, he must know anything of significance that happened there. As Luppino recalled his words: “I don’t care what others do, all I want to know is what is done in my house.”


If this is true... Magaddino had all of the drug trafficking routes from Canada to the US.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by CabriniGreen
I think the Luppino Ndrine could be very underestimated and misunderstood. He was one of the people who helped set up the Toronto commission, I can't ever remember what it's called, lol.

Those Violi brothers were described as having "international reach" , if that's not narcotics and connections to Calabria, I don't know jack shit about anything.

It's why I said Buffalo COULD be answering to Toronto, specifically the Commiso clan.


The governing body that Luppino started for the Ndrangheta in Toronto is known as the Crimine.
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by CabriniGreen
I actually made the suggestion that Buffalo MIGHT be organized like Ontario, maybe even answers to Ontario.
I suggested looking into the Violis, as figuring out their affiliation would shed a lot of light on the current landscape.

I also suggested that Buffalo would be valuable as a transit point for narcotics, and with the Calabrians being dominant in cocaine, it might be an attractive territory for them.

Just had to throw that out there, Rooster didn't come up with that...


Your suggestion is in line with what I also believe Cabrini.
People have to understand that the Ndrangheta also wants a piece of the American market. They are globalists and there is lots of money to be made in the USA. They are not as ouvert or flamboyant as other organized crime figures but they are there. You will hear about them only when they get caught on a drug bust or money laundering scheme.
Posted By: Ciment

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 06:02 PM


One more thing their organizational structure is based from blood ties and marriages. They are based in GTA Toronto, Ontario but they also have relatives living in the USA. In their minds the border does not exist, the relatives from both countries work as one.They will welcome any LCN willing to work with them. They will engage in partnership rather than use violence but will engage in violence only when they have to.
Posted By: Strax

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 06:20 PM

The_Rooster is banned ? This has to be the best day of this forum. It took longer than others like him,but finally.


Thanks admins.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/11/18 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gallinari
Long Live The Rooster.

@ SC, disappointed in you that you had to stoop to name calling. But youre the boss. Feel bad for you too now.

@ Loscalzo, your nonsense about Tampa still holds no weight and Ive been vindicated many times over.

All the best to Nickle, Bensonhurst, Cabrini, and Giacomo. Keep up the good posts in my absence


Welcome back, Rooster. It's strange that a man with such impressive connections to top-secret Buffalo organized crime investigations and intelligence from both sides of the law has the time and resolve to not only follow an internet poster into every thread he joins (even when they have nothing to do with your areas of interest), but also to duplicate accounts less than 24 hours after he has been banned.

It's also strange that at least three reputable, bigtime Buffalo-based OC journalists have repeatedly said the Buffalo mob is defunct, but as soon as one foreign journalist from Canada makes a vague reference that the family is rebuilding, you completely change your mind on the art of journalism. For 30 pages, the narrative from you was that all these journalists were liars with their own agendas. Now that a FOREIGN journalist hints, in only a couple of sentences out of an entire book, that the Buffalo mob was ATTEMPTING to rebuild as late as 2013, you feel as if you're vindicated?

I just don't see the logic there. Rooster likes to pick and choose which journalist to believe, even when that one foreign journalist goes against the grain of every reputable Buffalo mob journalist. It smacks of desperation. To believe that NickleCity's book quote is accurate, you can't go around preaching that journalists are liars and shills. It's pathetic, and there is no way this conversation will go anywhere.

Other posters obviously can see this too. When I discuss with NickleCity, he listens to my argument, and I listen to his. It's a good back-and-forth discussion. I hear his points. He hears mine.
But when somebody decides to disagree with you, you belittle them, insult them, and refuse to listen to any argument that disagrees with you. When you're pointed out on your bullshit, you simply refuse to acknowledge it, like with the Peter Gotti thread. That's why, in 30 pages of arguing, we got nowhere.
You couldn't provide any legitimate proof that the Buffalo crime family is still alive, and I provided overwhelming evidence from numerous sources. Now that there is one sliver of vague evidence to prove your point, you act as if you're vindicated.

In fact, the idea that one vague quote can have you thinking that you're vindicated just proves how weak your argument is from the beginning. Let's look at the breakdown of who says what about Buffalo:

Who believes the Buffalo crime family is definitively active:
A couple of internet posters.

Who believes the Buffalo crime family is potentially active, or has been potentially active within the decade
Peter Edwards, a Canadian-based crime reporter/

Who believes the Buffalo crime family is dead, extinct, defunct
Buffalo News crime reporter and investigator Dan Herbeck
Buffalo born-and-raised federal prosecutor Lee Coppola, who has been a source of information on the Buffalo mob for decades.
Head of the Buffalo FBI Office, Adam S. Cohen.
Former union executive and Buffalo turncoat Ronald Fino.
The Justice Department
Buffalo OC FBI agent Andrew Goralski
Acclaimed mob historian Scott Deitche, who has written over six books on the Mafia nationwide.


So let's here more about how vindicated you are, huh Rooster?
Posted By: Gopher

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/12/18 02:14 PM

Long Live The Rooster.

Nicky, read the posts and maybe youll gain some insight. But we doubt it .
Posted By: Gopher

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/12/18 02:15 PM

***Loscalzo
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/13/18 07:45 AM

I need information regarding a Buffalo soldier who was a major heroin trafficker with ties to the pizza connection.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/21/nyregion/major-heroin-ring-broken-federal-officials-say.html

This heroin ring was broken up in 1983 and it was the largest heroin seizure on record up to that time. What I want to know is how a mere soldier in a small family such as Buffalo had such a big role in that operation. This was surely done off the record considering the magnitude of $ involved and maybe it could have shed some light on how weak the admin in Buffalo has been since Magadinno died. I mean, if a guy is involved in a heroin ring bringing in millions a month profit and the admin isn't getting proper tribute without repercussion.

And this is from a 1998 Buffalo news article about Andrea Aiello and his ring.

"A Buffalo drug case offers an illustration. In 1983, the FBI raided a ceramic tile store on Delaware Avenue that was a front for high-grade heroin entering the United States inside wooden pallets. The man running the operation, Andrea Aiello, had ties to the Mafia families of New York City and Sicily and chose a lengthy prison sentence over cooperation with the FBI. But what made the case even more interesting was that Aiello was operating without the permission -- without even the knowledge -- of Buffalo's Mafia bosses."


So I need a real deal Buffalo mafia expert to fill me in on Andrea Aiello. He was a mere soldier yet got caught with $60 mil of heroin. Imagine how many successful shipments he received. Even guessing on the low end of one shipment a month...even if he kicked up 5% of that a month he would have been kicking up literally multi millions a year. He probably made more by himself from his heroin ring then the rest of the Buffalo family did make combined. So does anyone have any info on Andrea (Antonio) Aiello? I know he's been deceased for quite some time but his massive heroin ring fascinates me thaf he pulled that off without admin knowing.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/13/18 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
I need information regarding a Buffalo soldier who was a major heroin trafficker with ties to the pizza connection.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/21/nyregion/major-heroin-ring-broken-federal-officials-say.html

This heroin ring was broken up in 1983 and it was the largest heroin seizure on record up to that time. What I want to know is how a mere soldier in a small family such as Buffalo had such a big role in that operation. This was surely done off the record considering the magnitude of $ involved and maybe it could have shed some light on how weak the admin in Buffalo has been since Magadinno died. I mean, if a guy is involved in a heroin ring bringing in millions a month profit and the admin isn't getting proper tribute without repercussion.

And this is from a 1998 Buffalo news article about Andrea Aiello and his ring.

"A Buffalo drug case offers an illustration. In 1983, the FBI raided a ceramic tile store on Delaware Avenue that was a front for high-grade heroin entering the United States inside wooden pallets. The man running the operation, Andrea Aiello, had ties to the Mafia families of New York City and Sicily and chose a lengthy prison sentence over cooperation with the FBI. But what made the case even more interesting was that Aiello was operating without the permission -- without even the knowledge -- of Buffalo's Mafia bosses."


So I need a real deal Buffalo mafia expert to fill me in on Andrea Aiello. He was a mere soldier yet got caught with $60 mil of heroin. Imagine how many successful shipments he received. Even guessing on the low end of one shipment a month...even if he kicked up 5% of that a month he would have been kicking up literally multi millions a year. He probably made more by himself from his heroin ring then the rest of the Buffalo family did make combined. So does anyone have any info on Andrea (Antonio) Aiello? I know he's been deceased for quite some time but his massive heroin ring fascinates me thaf he pulled that off without admin knowing.


I in no way consider myself a Buffalo expert, but this operation was code named BUSICO for Buffalo Sicilian Connection. Here is an AP article on it. BUSICO

Drug trafficking has always been the biggest money maker for Buffalo. Like all the other families the administration although encouraging drug trafficking had a rule that they would never support in any way a defense of someone caught. They shielded themselves from all connection to drugs.

Let me give you and example: Alberto Agueci. He was a Buffalo soldier from Canada that answered to Magaddino captain who headed his own small family in the GTA named Johnny "Pops" Papalia. The old article I will link in a moment, however, calls Papalia an associate of the Bonanno Crime family. However, it has become common knowledge that Johnny Pops, the enforcer, was a captain in Magaddinos ranks. This shows how tied in the Bonanno's and Buffalo were and probably still are in regards to trafficking from Canada. It, also, highlights the tensions as both families have vied for control of all of Canada. I posted an article earlier from Peter Edwards book that quotes Magaddino as stating Montreal was his house, and how upset he was that the Controni's didn't correct Bill Bonanno when he suggested it was controlled by Magaddino's cousin Joe Bonanno. Also, if you will recall Johnny Pops was hit in '97 as the Rizuttos (closely allied with the Bonanno's) where exerting control of drug trafficking in the Toronto area.

Anyway, back to Alberto Agueci who answered to Buffalo Canadian Captian Johnny Pops:

Quote
Alberto Agueci specialized in importing heroin from Sicily by hiding 10-20 kilo loads in the false bottoms of trunks and suitcases, while having them brought over by unsuspecting immigrants and vacationers who booked passage of their trip through a travel agency in Sicily, the owner of which was associated with Alberto Agueci.


The article goes to say what happened when he was arrested in the French Connection and it appeared he would give up Magaddino... because he would not support his legal defense so as to stay off the radar about the families involvement with drugs:

Quote
Buffalo Mafia Member Alberto Agueci threatened to break the Mafia’s code of silence by informing on his bosses about their involvement in an international heroin smuggling ring.

On Thanksgiving Day November 23, 1961 the body of Buffalo Mafia Member Albert Agueci 39, who was also known as “the Baker” of 21 Armitage Drive in Scarborough, Canada was found in a field near Rochester NY.

Over thirty pounds of flesh cut from his body, his limbs and jaw broken, and his teeth knocked out. A length, of clothesline was knotted around the neck, his hands were bound behind the back with barbed wire, his genitals had been hacked off and stuffed into his mouth. According to the coroner’s report, his fatal torture had been spread over a number of days. The body had been doused with gasoline and set afire. Grass and undergrowth were burned for a radius of 6 to 8 feet around him.


The Buffalo family was still very violent in the late 70's and early '80's. I can't help but wonder if this incident was in the back of Anthony Aiello's head and that is why he didn't talk and give up Johnny Pops and others in leadership in Buffalo. I don't think for a second the administration did not know about the drug trafficking . Buffalo, has always played a major role in this drug trafficking network. In 83, Johnny "Pops" was probably in charge of this operation for Buffalo. Yes, their were were likely 2 faction vying for control of the Buffalo family: Pieri and Todaro... According to the Feds Todaro wasn't in full control and hadn't fully united the family till 84 or 85. So maybe that confusion helped them not get tied to all of this. But they still new what was going on and I am sure Pops was kicking up to the administration--whoever was in control in '83.

In my book, it also goes to show you just how strong and quiet the Canadian factions of the Buffalo family have been and may continue to be.

Here is the article on Agueci from Buffalo Police Then and Now: Agueci Drug Trafficker Tortured

Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/13/18 04:06 PM

Bill Feather had a site where I found more infos on the crime families,he listed here,the buffalo family and this men as Buffalo family's canadian crew,its reliable?

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false

Bordonaro-Ignazio Harold 1950 Canada
Caruso-Corrado Cookie Canada
Cipolla-Frank Canada
Cipolla-Paul* Canada
Criminisi-Ralph Canada
DePaolo-Bruno* Bronzie 1967 Canada
DePaolo-Joseph* Joey Dips Canada
DePaolo-Michael* Canada
Italiano-Dominic 1990- Capo Canada
Lombardo-Vincent Canada
Luppino-Anthony* Canada
Luppino-John Canada
Luppino-Natale Canada
Luppino-Rocco Canada
Papalia-Frank 1930 Canada
Papalia-Rocco 1935 Canada
Perri-Frank Canada
Pugliese-Anthony Canada
Pugliese-Joseph 1990- Capo Canada
Pugliese-Pasquale* Canada
Randazzo-Joseph Sol
Volpe-Albert Canada
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/13/18 06:04 PM

Frank Papalia is dead, Albert Volpe is dead, the last brother Gene is only an associate. Joe DePaolo is made, is brothers have not been confirmed. Pasquale Pugliese is not made and retired during the mid 2000's. Rocco Luppino is allegedly made in this decade, John is still an associate. Caruso is dead.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/13/18 10:07 PM

@Furio, Bill Weathers' site frequently lists associates as soldiers, so you can probably cross out a quarter of that list. If somebody is listed as a soldier, you might want to crosscheck that online but he never makes up names out of his ass.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 12:10 AM

Nice find Nicky... Todaro Crime syndicate with operations based in Buffalo. Not the mob, but tied into Cosa Nostra and Calabrian mobs... I wonder who how big their syndicate is and how many Italians versus other groups are part of it. Is it the lack of an administration that makes it a syndicate? Or do they just not know who the administration is, so they call it syndicate? Could it be they Here is a picture from the article:

[Linked Image]

The article goes on to say:
Quote
The two operations confirmed that the traditional cross-border network of mafia organisations across the Buffalo-Montreal-New York triangle remained intact, despite organisational changes and law enforcement intervention. The FBI noted that the risks posed by LCN, however weakened, were still a focus for law enforcement both in the city and at a federal level.
Mafia groups have a chameleonic ability to adapt. In an age of globalised communications and transport, traditional mafia groups – particularly in a central hub such as New York – can resurface and explore new pathways for expansion into criminal and legal markets, both in the United States and abroad.


Maybe Buffalo has adapted like a chameleon so much they think it is a syndicate, when it is just an adapted version of the Mob.

Again Nicky Great article!
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 03:46 AM




And It is odd... The Todaro Syndicate is a crime family ...but it is not LCN anymore.

Could it be the power in Buffalo shifted from US to Canada so the Calibrians specifically the Violi/Luppino faction are running things?

I think what what is happening on the streets is hard for everyone to understand, because everything has been adapted so much... dang chameleons in the mob make things so hard to understand. You’d think it was a secret society or something.
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 04:49 AM

Funny thing. Nicky stopped posting in this thread, but when Alice in Chains lyrics gets banned, he comes right back in the thread. That info that Tampa speaks of sounds like it would be something JD would say, but JD is no Punk, so I doubt it is him using this handle.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Funny thing. Nicky stopped posting in this thread, but when Alice in Chains lyrics gets banned, he comes right back in the thread. That info that Tampa speaks of sounds like it would be something JD would say, but JD is no Punk, so I doubt it is him using this handle.


Funny how you dodged out of another thread after I called you out lying about the Bonanno family's Bronx crew.
Funny how you got chased out of BH after you admitted to bold-faced lying...

Funny thing, isn't it?

Also... what are you referring to about Tampa?

There are factual errors as the writer is U.K.


You've got a point Nickle.
But whatever the case, the article does not believe the Todaro family is a Mafia entity anymore. That is open to SOME interpretation. It's not definitive proof, but it certainly throws a wrench into the claim that this recent bust "proves" that the Todaro crime family is still active AND that the Violis are Todaro family members.

Because the Violis, by all accounts, are part of the Calabrian OC, and also attended a Bonanno family induction ceremony. There is simply no viable evidence that the Violis are Todaro syndicate members, and it seems more and more evidence is coming out that suggests they are not.
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 06:44 AM

Always chased is what they say. Tampa is you I was referring to. It is funny, cause as soon as Buffalo comes into the topix more, you signed up over here. Enough about that.

On the Bronx, Haha took over for Amato or Bonventre (too lazy right now to look up the notes) in Brooklyn, but the crew also had soldiers in the Bronx. Both Louie and Robert have some strong connections with the Genovese and Lucchese families. As I stated in another thread, Louie came around the Bonanno family when they were looking for members as many other hang arounds did during that time in the late 60's and 70's. Haha had or has money on the streets of the Bronx.

On the Violi's, remember that Johnny Pops was identified as a Bonanno member, when in fact he was a Buffalo member during the 1960's when the report came out.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Always chased is what they say. Tampa is you I was referring to. It is funny, cause as soon as Buffalo comes into the topix more, you signed up over here. Enough about that.

On the Bronx, Haha took over for Amato or Bonventre (too lazy right now to look up the notes) in Brooklyn, but the crew also had soldiers in the Bronx. Both Louie and Robert have some strong connections with the Genovese and Lucchese families. As I stated in another thread, Louie came around the Bonanno family when they were looking for members as many other hang arounds did during that time in the late 60's and 70's. Haha had or has money on the streets of the Bronx.

On the Violi's, remember that Johnny Pops was identified as a Bonanno member, when in fact he was a Buffalo member during the 1960's when the report came out.


Responded in the other thread.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari

On the Violi's, remember that Johnny Pops was identified as a Bonanno member, when in fact he was a Buffalo member during the 1960's when the report came out.


Yes, seen that on numerous occasions. I referenced that fact when I posted the quote from a Buffalo Police Then & Now article on Agueci’s torture and murder.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 11:30 AM

Quote
You've got a point Nickle.
But whatever the case, the article does not believe the Todaro family is a Mafia entity anymore. That is open to SOME interpretation. It's not definitive proof, but it certainly throws a wrench into the claim that this recent bust "proves" that the Todaro crime family is still active AND that the Violis are Todaro family members.

Because the Violis, by all accounts, are part of the Calabrian OC, and also attended a Bonanno family induction ceremony. There is simply no viable evidence that the Violis are Todaro syndicate members, and it seems more and more evidence is coming out that suggests they are not.


What we know is that the Violi’s are OC probably members if not leading the Luppino Family that had strong ties to and was crew of the Buffalo Crime Family that is still a family but not LCN... And if you look at the base of operation on the map, it is the Buffalo Metropolitan area. I think this lends some credibility to the theory that power in Buffalo shifted to their Canadian faction so much that Buffalo is ran by Calibrians, but since they can’t prove Violi’s (who have international ties to Calabria) were made in either Buffalo or Luppino Family this is a Crime Syndicate. Could be wrong.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 12:29 PM

Here is my take away, the mob in WNY wasn’t all but dead as Dan Herbeck reported in March 2017. It had morphed into a strong maybe powerful Crime Syndicate that has its roots in LCN. We aren’t idiots on the street... we know large amounts of activity was and is taking place. The term Syndicate verifies this. All this means is their structure is different from most LNC families. Who knows maybe the East coast families are morphing into what Buffalo has developed because it has worked so well. The article references the East Coas LCN Enterprise and other nonconventional organization and arrangements that are atypical of LCN in general.

Another way to look at it: If it barks like a dog, hangs out with dogs, and it used to be a dog... maybe it is still is a dog..

Here is the definition I found for a Crime Syndicate:

Quote
Noun.
Aloose affiliation of gangsters in charge of organized criminal activities

Synonyms:
family, mob, syndicate

Types:
Cosa Nostra, Maffia, Mafia
a crime syndicate in the United States; organized in families; believed to have important relations to the Sicilian Mafia

Type of:
gangdom, gangland, organized crime
underworld organizations


Are we getting into semantics when we try to say it is not a mafia family? Does anyone have a better definition of Crime Syndicate?
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/14/18 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
So does anyone have any info on Andrea (Antonio) Aiello? I know he's been deceased for quite some time but his massive heroin ring fascinates me thaf he pulled that off without admin knowing.


Not sure, but I think I read a few years ago he was from Bagheria, which was also the birthplace of Capone enemy Joe Aiello.
Joe´s brother Andrea "Andrew" Aiello settled in Utica, N.Y..
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/15/18 03:59 PM

Hey what about this chart ?

http://buffalonews.com/1988/11/30/w...-12-from-wny-among-targets-of-u-s-probe/

Buffalo Family

Boss:Joseph "Big Joe" Todaro Jr.
Underboss:???
Consigliere:

Capos

Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco ???
Dominic Italiano (Hamilton???)
Russel "Russ" Carcone (Utica???)

Made men

Annunzio "Red" Cannizzaro
Ronald "Ron" Cardinale
Joseph "Snakehead" Cardinale
Robert "Bobby" Chimera b.1936
William "Cookie" Gigilia b.1946
Carmen Mambrino b.1969
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph Rosato
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro III (grandson of Joseph Sr. and overseer of La Nova Pizza and Wing Inc.)
Anthony W Tavano (???)
Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1963
Frank Ferraro b.1942
Frank Marino b.1940
Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" De Paolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" De Paolo
Michael "Mike" De Paolo
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinnie" Lombardo

Associates

Peter Capitano Jr (union and labor interests)
Samual "Sam" Capitano (union and labor interests, brother of Peter)
Frank Falzone (family lawyer/counselor)
John Frorino (unions)
Frank "Chici Botts" Grisanti caught in drug ring in 1988
Joseph Lombardo caught in a drug ring in 1988
Lawrence Panaro (brother of Bobby Jr.)
Anthony "Tony" Inserra
Frank Minicone
Philip Zammiello
David Pietras
Larry Tantillo
Tony Tadesco
Raphael "Jilly" Scibetta

Dead since 2000

Sam "The Priest" Cardinale (2000)
Ernest Panebianco (2000)
Dominic Auditouri (2001)
Augustine Rizzo (2001)
Louis Sicurella (2001)
Gaetano "Chooch" Miceli (2002)
Gino Monaco (2002)
Dominic Bretti (2003)
Benedetto "Benny" Carcone (2003)
Joseph Fiorella (2003)
Bart Mazzara (2003)
Anthony Scro (2003)
Daniel G."The Mutt" Sansanese (2003)
John "Johnny Catz" Catanzaro (2004)
Ignazio "Iggy" Agro (2005)
Vito Agueci (2005)
Nicholas Mauro (2005)
Charles Scro (2005)
Joseph Sacco (2006)
Charles "Charlie" Pusateri (2008)
Vincent "Jimmy" Luppino (2009)
Scro-Vincent (2009)
Albert Randaccio (2009)
Frank Billiteri (2010)
Dominic Romeo (2010)
Cosimo Staltieri (2011)
Joseph Fambo (2012)
Benjamin "Sonny" Nicoletti Jr. (2012)
Joseph "Lead Pipe Joe" Joseph Sr (2012)
Vincent "Jimmy" Sicurella (2014)
Anthony Ciotti (2014)
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarini (2014)
Donald "Turtle" Pinepinto (2015)
Frank Papalia (2015)
Rocco Papalia
Leonard Falzone (2016)
Rocco Zito (2016)
Sam Amoia Jr. (2017)
Samuel "Sam" Lagatutta Jr.
Joseph R. Pieri
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/15/18 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples


Just shows the Buffalo Sicilian Connection was tied to the Buffalo Crime Family. Todaro was firmly in charge by '88. Before taking the reigns in what most believe was '84 or before. Before that, he was a high powered Capo vying for control of the family all the way back to the late 70's on. I am sure he knew what was going on. I am not sure why the Buffalo News article would suggest the operations were done without the knowledge of the family. It is evident there were other made men and associates of the Buffalo LCN that were arrested. Lots of things I just can't figure out related to some of reporting by TBN.

Buffalo has always been involved in drug trafficking... Later, during the '90's, they were bringing Cocaine in thru Las Vegas, when they were said to be the most powerful family in Vegas... I will have to find the article sometime.

Does anyone else wonder if their is a reason they are calling this The Todaro Crime Family Syndicate instead of the former Magaddino or Buffalo Crime Family? Is it just because Todaro was the last recognized boss of the family? ... Very well could be... Or is there more to what is happening?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/15/18 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Hey what about this chart ?

http://buffalonews.com/1988/11/30/w...-12-from-wny-among-targets-of-u-s-probe/

Buffalo Family

Boss:Joseph "Big Joe" Todaro Jr.
Underboss:???
Consigliere:

Capos

Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco ???
Dominic Italiano (Hamilton???)
Russel "Russ" Carcone (Utica???)

Made men

Annunzio "Red" Cannizzaro
Ronald "Ron" Cardinale
Joseph "Snakehead" Cardinale
Robert "Bobby" Chimera b.1936
William "Cookie" Gigilia b.1946
Carmen Mambrino b.1969
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph Rosato
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro III (grandson of Joseph Sr. and overseer of La Nova Pizza and Wing Inc.)
Anthony W Tavano (???)
Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1963
Frank Ferraro b.1942
Frank Marino b.1940
Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" De Paolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" De Paolo
Michael "Mike" De Paolo
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinnie" Lombardo

Associates

Peter Capitano Jr (union and labor interests)
Samual "Sam" Capitano (union and labor interests, brother of Peter)
Frank Falzone (family lawyer/counselor)
John Frorino (unions)
Frank "Chici Botts" Grisanti caught in drug ring in 1988
Joseph Lombardo caught in a drug ring in 1988
Lawrence Panaro (brother of Bobby Jr.)
Anthony "Tony" Inserra
Frank Minicone
Philip Zammiello
David Pietras
Larry Tantillo
Tony Tadesco
Raphael "Jilly" Scibetta

Dead since 2000

Sam "The Priest" Cardinale (2000)
Ernest Panebianco (2000)
Dominic Auditouri (2001)
Augustine Rizzo (2001)
Louis Sicurella (2001)
Gaetano "Chooch" Miceli (2002)
Gino Monaco (2002)
Dominic Bretti (2003)
Benedetto "Benny" Carcone (2003)
Joseph Fiorella (2003)
Bart Mazzara (2003)
Anthony Scro (2003)
Daniel G."The Mutt" Sansanese (2003)
John "Johnny Catz" Catanzaro (2004)
Ignazio "Iggy" Agro (2005)
Vito Agueci (2005)
Nicholas Mauro (2005)
Charles Scro (2005)
Joseph Sacco (2006)
Charles "Charlie" Pusateri (2008)
Vincent "Jimmy" Luppino (2009)
Scro-Vincent (2009)
Albert Randaccio (2009)
Frank Billiteri (2010)
Dominic Romeo (2010)
Cosimo Staltieri (2011)
Joseph Fambo (2012)
Benjamin "Sonny" Nicoletti Jr. (2012)
Joseph "Lead Pipe Joe" Joseph Sr (2012)
Vincent "Jimmy" Sicurella (2014)
Anthony Ciotti (2014)
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarini (2014)
Donald "Turtle" Pinepinto (2015)
Frank Papalia (2015)
Rocco Papalia
Leonard Falzone (2016)
Rocco Zito (2016)
Sam Amoia Jr. (2017)
Samuel "Sam" Lagatutta Jr.
Joseph R. Pieri



I've always thought Joe Lombardo was made... Don't know for sure... The Book on DiCarlo has him as one of four bookmakers in the city paying tribute to Magaddino through Randaccio. Here is a quote:

Quote
Nicholas “Sonny” Mauro had been a leading figure in regional gambling for decades. During the reign of Stefano Magaddino, authorities identified him as one of four city bookmakers paying underworld “taxes” to Magaddino’s underboss Fred Randaccio. The others reportedly were Joe Lombardo, Richard Todaro and Joseph Fino. Noting the vast sums of money generated by gambling operations, the FBI made a concerted effort beginning in the mid-1960s to crack down on bookmakers:


Hunt, Thomas. DiCarlo: Buffalo's First Family of Crime - Vol. II (Kindle Locations 6699-6703). Hunt&Tona Publications. Kindle Edition.

If it is the same Joe Lombardo ... I think he was more than an associate. Could be wrong. I believe the Lombardo family has had a long history of insolvent with BLCN.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/18/18 03:04 AM

@NickyfromTampa. Can’t agree with you about Fino. I think Herbeck May have got that wrong. You write:

Quote

Who believes the Buffalo crime family is definitively active:
A couple of internet posters.

Who believes the Buffalo crime family is potentially active, or has been potentially active within the decade
Peter Edwards, a Canadian-based crime reporter.


I’d add Ron Fino. In a Sept. 30 2012 article he said 210 was never fully rid of its mob influence and referenced the Sam Capitano being back in charge.

Here is the article: FBI’s Inside Guy

Additionally he was so put off by Herbeck’s article he wrote a letter to the paper that was published. After citing an earlier Buffalo News article by BeBee, then going into more detail about the Capitano’s and Paul Cambria’s continued representation of 210 Fino says quite succinctly they are alive as he writes:

Quote
Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.


Here is a link to Fino’s letter: Fino Letter to Buffalo News
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/18/18 08:35 AM


Nope. Fino doesn't believe the family is active either. The 2017 article that I linked previously has Fino saying the family is not active.

But, you know what, you make a good point. Fino, in 2017, said the family is not active, and I have cited this previously. But in 2012 he was saying they do exist and operate more clandestinely. And when he first flipped, he was outed as a bullshitter when he jumped on the OJ Simpson bandwagon and tried to make up some stories about him.

Fino is not really in a position to know any "street knowledge" regarding the Buffalo mob from 1990-onwards, when he publicly flipped.

But, if we are putting him down as a reliable source, then we can comfortably say that, as of 2017, he does not believe the family is active and seems to have changed his mind from 2012-2017.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/18/18 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Nope. Fino doesn't believe the family is active either. The 2017 article that I linked previously has Fino saying the family is not active.

But, you know what, you make a good point. Fino, in 2017, said the family is not active, and I have cited this previously. But in 2012 he was saying they do exist and operate more clandestinely. And when he first flipped, he was outed as a bullshitter when he jumped on the OJ Simpson bandwagon and tried to make up some stories about him.

Fino is not really in a position to know any "street knowledge" regarding the Buffalo mob from 1990-onwards, when he publicly flipped.

But, if we are putting him down as a reliable source, then we can comfortably say that, as of 2017, he does not believe the family is active and seems to have changed his mind from 2012-2017.


Oh I get it. I know that article quotes Fino saying that. However, that is just a real big change of mind in a couple of years. So big you’d think Herbeck would have acknowledged Fino’s change of mind and highlighted the reasons. Don’t you think that would have really made the case for his March 2017 article? I think many of his readers in Buffalo would have liked the information, because Fino was so adamant the family was clandestinely active.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/22/18 03:19 PM

NEWS RELATED TO NY STATE CORRUPTION & BUFFALO BILLION SCANDAL

Percoco attorney objects to 'Sopranos' references
Prosecution wants to add context about former Cuomo's aides use of 'ziti' for money

Here is the article: Sopranos, Ziti, and NY State Corruption & Bid Rigging

LP Ciminelli is on trial for his firm's alleged corrupt dealing related to bid rigging in the Buffalo Billion portion of this scandal. Here are a few of the recent articles:

From the NY Post:
Men accused in 'Buffalo Billion trial congratulated themselves before bid-rigging even started
Congratulations for Bid-Rigging

From The Buffalo News:
'Star Witness' in Buffalo Billion trial implicates Ciminelli, Kayloyeros
Star Witness Implicates Ciminelli

With legal and political stakes, Buffalo Billion trial begins
High Political and Legal Stakes as Buffalo Billion Trial Begins

Star witness in Percoco trial ends up in jail for violating deal with US Attorney's office
Star Witness Ends Up in Jail

From Channel 7 News Buffalo
Federal Prosecutors: Ciminelli, Laipple will not face bribery charges in Buffalo Billion trial
Charges Dropped Against Ciminelli Exec.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/22/18 09:22 PM

Good stuff, Nickle.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/22/18 11:57 PM

Prosecutors Link Syracuse Developer to Buffalo Billion Scandal:

Executives Joseph Gerardi and Steven Aiello of Syracuse-based Cor Development are on trial with Buffalo developer Louis Ciminelli and former SUNY Polytechnic Institute President Alain Kaloyeros .

Here is the article: Gerardi & Aiello of Cor Development Linked to Buffalo Billion Scandal
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/25/18 06:58 PM

Here is more on the NY State Corruption and Ciminelli bid rigging trial:
Louis P Ciminelli Trial
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/27/18 03:57 PM

NEW SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF FBI’S BUFFALO FIELD OFFICE

NEW FBI CHIEF IN BUFFALO
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/27/18 04:05 PM

MORE ON NY STATE CORRUPTION & CIMINELLI BID RIGGING TRIAL

NY Corruption & Ciminelli Bid Rigging Trial
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/27/18 07:08 PM

Quote

“Terrorism, for the foreseeable future, is going to be our number one priority,” he said. “We have a Joint Terrorism Task Force because everyone wants to take that on.”

Sitting on an international border, Loewffert also sees counter-intelligence, particularly the protection of technical and trade secrets as a critical mission. There’s also the work of the office’s cyber squad and Safe Streets Task Force.

“We’re still working the gangs,” he said.

Tackling public corruption, something that has brought the FBI repeatedly to Niagara County over the years, will also have a prominent place on Loeffert’s to-do list.

“I thought Buffalo might be a little slower paced,” Loeffert said. “But it’s not. It’s busy.”
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/28/18 04:13 PM

VIOLI RCMP/HALTON POLICE DOCUMENTS FROM EARLY 2002-2005



JOE VIOLI ARRESTED IN ONE CALL COCAINE OPERATION 94/95
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]




VIOLI BROTHERS ATOP RCMP TARGET LIST THAT INCLUDES BUFFALO CAPTAINS '98-2002
[Linked Image]




2002 3 PAGE HALTON DOCUMENT ON MUSITANO HIT SAYS DOMINIC VIOLI IS "HEIR APPARENT" to LUPINNO CRIME FAMILY
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]




VIOLIS ON HALTON POLICE LUPINNO FAMILY CHART CIRCA 2005
[Linked Image]


By the way does anyone know who the early Dominica Todaro is on this chart? She appears be born in 1904 if I read the chart correctly. Is this Giacomo's wife? This news article on the death of Vincenzo Luppino suggests it is: Vincenzo Luppino Death

Does the Luppino Family have it roots with the Todaros? Is this why Canadian papers say members of Todaro Family were arrested in O'Tremens operation?

Is there any tie or relationship to the Todaro's that settled in Buffalo? They were/are Sicilian, but did they have relatives in Calabria where Giacomo is from? Did Giacomo marry a Sicilian Todaro? Maybe no connection at all, just lots of questions...
Posted By: antimafia

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/28/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
By the way does anyone know who the early Dominica Todaro is on this chart? She appears be born in 1904 if I read the chart correctly. Is this Giacomo's wife? This news article on the death of Vincenzo Luppino suggests it is: Vincenzo Luppino Death

Does the Luppino Family have it roots with the Todaros? Is this why Canadian papers say members of Todaro Family were arrested in O'Tremens operation?

Is there any tie or relationship to the Todaro's that settled in Buffalo? They were/are Sicilian, but did they have relatives in Calabria where Giacomo is from? Did Giacomo marry a Sicilian Todaro? Maybe no connection at all, just lots of questions...


Last November, Ciment alerted us to the Luppino family tree--it's not really a crime chart because the family tree lists both men and women not involved in Italian organized crime--that appeared in Derrick Snowdy's Twitter timeline.

See the post in this thread for an answer to your question about Domenica Todaro, who was likely born in Oppido Mamertina, Reggio Calabria, which is the birthplace of her husband (Giacomo Luppino). To be clear, there are people in Oppido Mamertina with the surname Todaro, just as there are people born with that surname whose ancestry can be traced to Oppido Mamertina.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 06/28/18 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by antimafia
Originally Posted by NickleCity
By the way does anyone know who the early Dominica Todaro is on this chart? She appears be born in 1904 if I read the chart correctly. Is this Giacomo's wife? This news article on the death of Vincenzo Luppino suggests it is: Vincenzo Luppino Death

Does the Luppino Family have it roots with the Todaros? Is this why Canadian papers say members of Todaro Family were arrested in O'Tremens operation?

Is there any tie or relationship to the Todaro's that settled in Buffalo? They were/are Sicilian, but did they have relatives in Calabria where Giacomo is from? Did Giacomo marry a Sicilian Todaro? Maybe no connection at all, just lots of questions...


Last November, Ciment alerted us to the Luppino family tree--it's not really a crime chart because the family tree lists both men and women not involved in Italian organized crime--that appeared in Derrick Snowdy's Twitter timeline.

See the post in this thread for an answer to your question about Domenica Todaro, who like her husband, Giacomo, was likely born in Oppido Mamertina, Reggio Calabria. To be clear, there are people in Oppido Mamertina with the surname Todaro, just as there are people born with that surname whose ancestry can be traced to Oppido Mamertina.


Thank you I will check it out.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/10/18 06:05 PM

NY STATE CORRUPTION, BID RIGGING, & LP CIMINELLI BUFFALO BILLION TRIAL:
Recent News Regarding the Buffalo Billion Scandal

Ciminelli & Buffalo Billion Bid Rigging Trial
Fraudsters Knew They Did Wrong
Prosecutors Nearly Botch Corruption Case
Ciminelli Trial Exposes Cuomo Corruption
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/10/18 08:55 PM

Isn't the gubernatorial election this year for Cuomo?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/11/18 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Isn't the gubernatorial election this year for Cuomo?


Indeed here is an article that highlights the many candidates:
NY GOVERNOR’S RACE
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/11/18 02:43 AM

CLOSING ARGUMENTS IN CIMINELLI TRIAL
STAR WITNESS “SINGS FOR HIS SUPPER”
BUFFALO BILLION “A BAD MEAL”
AIELO & GERARDI DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM CIMINELLI


Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/11/18 10:09 AM

So, I'll be the one to mention it. A case like this, with a star cooperating witness, wiretaps, the works, and there was no mention or indication of any overarching secret criminal organization such as the Buffalo Mafia? Even though forum members allegedly with their ears to the streets said it was a classic mob bust through and through? Did I miss something indicating that it was?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/11/18 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
So, I'll be the one to mention it. A case like this, with a star cooperating witness, wiretaps, the works, and there was no mention or indication of any overarching secret criminal organization such as the Buffalo Mafia? Even though forum members allegedly with their ears to the streets said it was a classic mob bust through and through? Did I miss something indicating that it was?


@Nicky, thanks for the comment and question. You are right. In this trial there is no direct, non-circumstantial evidence to a covert criminal organization such as Cosa Nostra in Buffalo. So, perhaps, it was wildly irresponsible for me or anyone else to have made any suggestion that it was a possibility.

By the way I never indicated is was "a classic mob bust through and through." I believe I just inferred there was a possibility due to circumstantial evidence. I think I've been pretty clear that the things I reference do not prove the Buffalo Crime family exists. I understand and appreciate your "facts/newsource/LE" only approach. My main argument is that approach can and is, at times, insufficient as well.

What is clear is these crimes were typical of Cosa Nostra type activities. They were committed by a Buffalo developer/builder alleged to have ties to the Buffalo Crime Family going back 2 generations. Of course, these alleged ties were just street talk until Ron Fino, in his book The Triangle Exit, stated that he was told by Falzone that Frank Ciminelli (Louis' Dad) "answered," and that he (Fino) was instructed to leave his (Ciminelli's) companies alone because they were "connected. There was/is no direct, non-circumstantial evidence that has been presented to prove Fino's accusation either.

Circumstantially, Buffalo area lawyer William Ianaconne, whose cousin was a made man in Buffalo, also links Frank Ciminelli to the Buffalo Crime family. He has a picture that supposedly shows Frank laundering money in Reno with a Buffalo Crime Family drug trafficker named Napoli. Of course this is just street talk, and an unproven allegation.

Further, Louis Ciminelli (Frank's son) served as a trustee for long time mob controlled Local 210 in Buffalo. He is named along with Falzone and other Buffalo soldiers and associates in a RICO suite alleging misuse of pension funds.

However, it is important to note there are no known newspaper articles, police reports, arrests, indictments, or convictions related to Frank Ciminelli's involvement with the Buffalo crime family. Nor are there any articles, police reports, arrests or convictions indicating Louis Ciminelli was or is a member or associate of the Buffalo Crime Family. As far as we, legally, know Louis was a legitimate trustee of Local 210.

On another, but related, note it should be clarified that these articles never indicated Cuomo had any involvement with this corruption. The only accusations are against members of his staff/administration. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence that Cuomo sanctioned or even knew any of this was going on. I could totally see why someone would say that it would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise about Cuomo, because there is not sufficient evidence of it!

In fact, the only non-circumstantial evidence demonstrates the opposite. The evidence suggests Cuomo is a crusader against corruption. The fact is Cuomo established "The Commission to Investigate Public Corruption" in July 2013 after several NYS senators including the Speaker Sheldon were accused of wrong doing.

It should be noted that some questioned why Cuomo disbanded the commission a short time later when they and The Feds started looking at him and the Buffalo Billion Scandal. But the evidence points the other direction.

The facts is The Feds Preet Bharara closed the investigation into Governor Cuomo because there was NO EVIDENCE of obstruction of justice. Cuomo's lawyer, Elkan Abramowitz, stated: "We were always confident there was no illegality here, and we appreciate the U.S. attorney clarifying this for the public record." Here are a couple related articles:

FEDS CLOSE INVESTIGATION OF CUOMO KILLING ANTI-CORRUPTION COMMISSION
INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO CHARGE CUOMO OF CORRUPTION

Here is a great article that provides a timeline with related NY TIMES articles about The Commission to Investigate Public Corruption's activity and lifespan:

SHORT LIFE OF ANTICORRUPTION COMMISSION

I personally believe there is a decent possibility that Cuomo is aware of and has been involved in this corruption, but the established facts and non-circumstancial evidence indicate I am wrong.

What is clear, NYS and some if its municipalities are incredibly corrupt (see my posts on Bufalino thread about Niagara County). This corruption could be an environment ripe for organized crime to flourish. But, you are right,there is no non-circumstantial evidence suggesting there is a connection to organized crime, like there is no evidence that Governor Cuomo is involved in any type of corruption or obstruction of Justice.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/11/18 06:26 PM

Believe me Nickle, my comment was specifically directed at the people who claimed the bust was a legitimate Mafia bust.
And you’ve explained the situation incredibly well Nickle. Better than I could. And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s. But I think that what some posters (not you) do not understand is that the mob does not define corruption nor is it solely responsible for corruption. Even as the mob dies, corruption continues. I think it should surprise nobody that contractors with ties to the mob are still committing the same type of crimes in the 21st century, in the absence of the mob. In fact, without the mob taking a tribute, they can make far more money than before.
I don’t think Ciminelli is the only formerly mobbed-up contractor still doing dodgy deals. Upstate NY is one of the most corrupt regions of America in terms of construction. But I simply don’t think it even POINTS to the idea that the mafia is still active. If anything, I think it HURTS the notion the mafia is still active because there was a lengthy investigation with a cooperating witness that still didn’t uncover any Mafia ties, and we’ve seen in the past that prosecutors love to bring up the Mafia at any chance they get.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/12/18 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Believe me Nickle, my comment was specifically directed at the people who claimed the bust was a legitimate Mafia bust.
And you’ve explained the situation incredibly well Nickle. Better than I could. And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s. But I think that what some posters (not you) do not understand is that the mob does not define corruption nor is it solely responsible for corruption. Even as the mob dies, corruption continues. I think it should surprise nobody that contractors with ties to the mob are still committing the same type of crimes in the 21st century, in the absence of the mob. In fact, without the mob taking a tribute, they can make far more money than before.
I don’t think Ciminelli is the only formerly mobbed-up contractor still doing dodgy deals. Upstate NY is one of the most corrupt regions of America in terms of construction. But I simply don’t think it even POINTS to the idea that the mafia is still active. If anything, I think it HURTS the notion the mafia is still active because there was a lengthy investigation with a cooperating witness that still didn’t uncover any Mafia ties, and we’ve seen in the past that prosecutors love to bring up the Mafia at any chance they get.


Sorry I took you wrong. A few people on this and BH forums have been a bit brutal about my belief Buffalo is active because I allow "street talk" and "circumstantial evidence" into my consideration of the topic, because I believe the the LE, new source, and facts only approach can be and is insufficient at times, especially when considering corruption.

I find it interesting that some who take this strict "established facts only" approach OC do not apply it to their consideration of the political sphere (i.e. Cuomo). They are quick to suggest corruption on his part while citing circumstantial evidence, but the facts, news stories, and LE (at least right now) indicate otherwise. I'd like for them to understand the double standard in their logic that they are applying to these two situations.

I'll readily admit I believe there is a strong possibility Cuomo is corrupt... but I'm applying the exact same logic to Cuomo that that I do to OC. They do not.

Why is the LE/Facts/Trusted News source approach insufficient at times?

The Ciminellis are a good example. I was on the Real Deal many years ago, and was ripped a new one for making the suggestion that the Ciminelli family had been connected. People told me just because they have a vowel in their last name doesn't mean they were. Yet for two generations "street talk" in Buffalo indicated otherwise, even though their were no established facts, articles, indictments, & etc. to verify the "word on the street. There was only circumstantial evidence. Yet today, after Fino's book was published, most will readily admit they were connected in some way.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/13/18 05:40 PM

4 FOUND GUILTY IN BUFFALO BILLION TRIAL
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/13/18 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Believe me Nickle, my comment was specifically directed at the people who claimed the bust was a legitimate Mafia bust.
And you’ve explained the situation incredibly well Nickle. Better than I could. And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s. But I think that what some posters (not you) do not understand is that the mob does not define corruption nor is it solely responsible for corruption. Even as the mob dies, corruption continues. I think it should surprise nobody that contractors with ties to the mob are still committing the same type of crimes in the 21st century, in the absence of the mob. In fact, without the mob taking a tribute, they can make far more money than before.
I don’t think Ciminelli is the only formerly mobbed-up contractor still doing dodgy deals. Upstate NY is one of the most corrupt regions of America in terms of construction. But I simply don’t think it even POINTS to the idea that the mafia is still active. If anything, I think it HURTS the notion the mafia is still active because there was a lengthy investigation with a cooperating witness that still didn’t uncover any Mafia ties, and we’ve seen in the past that prosecutors love to bring up the Mafia at any chance they get.


Sorry I took you wrong. A few people on this and BH forums have been a bit brutal about my belief Buffalo is active because I allow "street talk" and "circumstantial evidence" into my consideration of the topic, because I believe the the LE, new source, and facts only approach can be and is insufficient at times, especially when considering corruption.

I find it interesting that some who take this strict "established facts only" approach OC do not apply it to their consideration of the political sphere (i.e. Cuomo). They are quick to suggest corruption on his part while citing circumstantial evidence, but the facts, news stories, and LE (at least right now) indicate otherwise. I'd like for them to understand the double standard in their logic that they are applying to these two situations.

A good point Nickle, but did I ever suggest corruption on Cuomo's part? Not saying for sure I didn't, I might have let something slip, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.
Originally Posted by NickleCity

Why is the LE/Facts/Trusted News source approach insufficient at times?

The Ciminellis are a good example. I was on the Real Deal many years ago, and was ripped a new one for making the suggestion that the Ciminelli family had been connected. People told me just because they have a vowel in their last name doesn't mean they were. Yet for two generations "street talk" in Buffalo indicated otherwise, even though their were no established facts, articles, indictments, & etc. to verify the "word on the street. There was only circumstantial evidence. Yet today, after Fino's book was published, most will readily admit they were connected in some way.



It is one thing to say the Ciminellis were connected because that, prior to Ron Fino's book, had never been proven one way or the other. So, whilst people might dismiss it as street talk, it's still an allegation that has never been explicitly proven wrong. It's just a rumor.
But if you were to say something alone the lines of "The Gotti family were never involved in drugs," that is another thing because it has directly been proven wrong (i.e. the Gene Gotti arrest and conviction).

That is what we have here with the Buffalo thing. If you tell me Frank Bifulco is still very involved in racketeering and criminal activities, then hey, that makes sense, the guy is a career gangster. But if you tell me Bifulco is the leader of the Buffalo crime family, that's where I can say that all facets of law enforcement and journalism have concluded the Buffalo Mafia is done for, dead as a doorknob.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/14/18 11:58 AM

Quote
A good point Nickle, but did I ever suggest corruption on Cuomo's part? Not saying for sure I didn't, I might have let something slip, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.


@Nicky: No you never suggested that but some posters on some mob related Facebook groups have. Didn’t mean to suggest you had the double standard with logic.

You make a good point about BiFulco.

On Ciminelli, I’m a little confused: You said there is no doubt the Ciminelli family was connected a few posts above:

Quote
And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s.


But here, you say it is an unproven allegation. (BTW: which it is.)

Quote
So, whilst people might dismiss it as street talk, it's still an allegation that has never been explicitly proven wrong. It's just a rumor.


Seems to me your “gut” unofficially recognizes the validity of some “street talk.” Am I wrong?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/14/18 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Quote
A good point Nickle, but did I ever suggest corruption on Cuomo's part? Not saying for sure I didn't, I might have let something slip, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.


@Nicky: No you never suggested that but some posters on some mob related Facebook groups have. Didn’t mean to suggest you had the double standard with logic.

You make a good point about BiFulco.

On Ciminelli, I’m a little confused: You said there is no doubt the Ciminelli family was connected a few posts above:

Quote
And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s.


But here, you say it is an unproven allegation. (BTW: which it is.)

Quote
So, whilst people might dismiss it as street talk, it's still an allegation that has never been explicitly proven wrong. It's just a rumor.


Seems to me your “gut” unofficially recognizes the validity of some “street talk.” Am I wrong?


Didn’t the Ciminellis hold high-ranking posts in the union at the height of its Mafia control?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa


Didn’t the Ciminellis hold high-ranking posts in the union at the height of its Mafia control?


I only know of Lou serving as a trustee of the pension fund because of the ‘91 RICO against Leonard Falzone and the trustees.

CIMINELLI NAMED IN 210 RICO AGAINST TRUSTEES

During the cleanup the Ciminelli’s were vocal about no removal of current 210 leadership.

Quote
”The international union, not our own members, have filed claims calling for our removal," union leaders told employers in a letter of invitation to the meeting. "They claim that you participated in corruption with the local. We both know this to be a complete fabrication.

"Some of the other claims," the letter continued, "are that we supposedly asked -- and you agreed -- to hire stewards for no-show jobs. They also claim that you gave us kickbacks and that we permitted you to hire non-union laborers. These claims directly and indirectly call your reputation into question."

The letter was signed by Peter G. Gerace, business manager, and Peter A. Capitano, secretary-treasurer.

After the two-hour meeting, Capitano, President Everett Caci and attorney Robert L. Boreanaz met with a Buffalo News reporter. They said Louis P. Ciminelli, president of Frank L. Ciminelli Construction Co. Inc., was among employers who personally voiced support, as well as Daniel Boody and Thomas G. Hopkins, leaders of the Buffalo Building and Construction Trades Council.

"We feel real good that our members are behind us," Capitano said. "They screamed and yelled that they're in support; they want to put committees together, to march, to do whatever they can to keep this union going."

"They voted us in," Caci said, "and they don't want to take a vote right now to vote us out, because they're all in favor of us."


LOUIS CIMINELLI SUPPORTS 210 LEADERSHIP


Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 02:10 AM

Looks like the Ciminelli connection to organised crime figures is right there in your post, Nickle.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Looks like the Ciminelli connection to organised crime figures is right there in your post, Nickle.


That is a wild accuasation. There is just circumstantial evidence that we are drawing an inference from. There is no factual evidence in this article that this “upstanding” prominent business was “mobbed up” as you put it. The article only said he is a supporter of the duely elected leadership of 210. How dare we jump to conclusions.

Further, there is no evidence to support the accusation that he is mobbed in the 210 RICO from ‘91 that sues the trustees for improper use of pension funds. Court documents never make an allegation that he is connected to organized crime... They just say there are known members of 210 that are.

As far as we know Ciminelli is just a legitimate trustee caught up in forces beyond his control. In a previous post you even agreed that there is no factual evidence to indicate he wasn’t a legitimate trustee.

You see, there seems to be a double standard as to what can be inferred about the Buffalo family. I hear from a funeral director that I trust that Butch BiFulco was at Nicoletti’s funeral and many people US & Canadian are there showing him a great deal of respect as he stands with family at cemetery. This doesn’t prove anything, but in my book lends credibility to the unsubstantiated report he is head of what is left of Buffalo Crime Family. Throw in Otremens operation and the academic article that mentions the “Todaro Crime Family Syndicate” and the fact that there is a 1 prominent FBI informant from the ‘90’s on a mob related Facebook group saying the family is active, not connected to the Bonanno’s (as some are inferring on other forums) and involved with healthcare fraud with other LCN families, then I believe it is reasonable to infer Buffalo is small but organized and active, just as you inferred Ciminelli was mobbed up, even though there is no factual evidence that he was.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 04:34 AM

I have not been on here in a while.

I see some new info on Buffalo.

If anyone remembers that was my guess that the family was still viable however, probably not in a traditional sense....

That possibly the power bad shifted to Canada and the family would resemble a structure similar to Rizzutto than L.C.N.

That's basically what that chart says.

?????

Everyone in agreement of.

The family still exists and has rackets and like any other family there is some sort of leadership.

Just not Boss, UB, Consig, Capo etc.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Looks like the Ciminelli connection to organised crime figures is right there in your post, Nickle.


That is a wild accuasation. There is just circumstantial evidence that we are drawing an inference from. There is no factual evidence in this article that this “upstanding” prominent business was “mobbed up” as you put it. The article only said he is a supporter of the duely elected leadership of 210. How dare we jump to conclusions.

Ciminelli worked with known organized crime figures. So when I said; "And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s" I was right. He has connections to the mob in that he did business in the construction industry with known organized crime figures who committed crimes within the construction industry.
"Mobbed up" was the wrong terminology, but there is absolutely no doubt that he had connections with the mob.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

Further, there is no evidence to support the accusation that he is mobbed in the 210 RICO from ‘91 that sues the trustees for improper use of pension funds. Court documents never make an allegation that he is connected to organized crime... They just say there are known members of 210 that are.

As far as we know Ciminelli is just a legitimate trustee caught up in forces beyond his control. In a previous post you even agreed that there is no factual evidence to indicate he wasn’t a legitimate trustee.

Whether willingly or unwillingly, he had connections to organized crime. In the '91 indictment, it says this:
"The plaintiffs allege that organized crime controls the defendant Laborers' International Union of North America Local #210 located in Buffalo, New York ("Local 210"). The plaintiffs further allege that Local 210 and organized crime control the Pension Fund."

So Ciminelli's improper use of pension funds was, based on the indictment, done under the control of the Buffalo Mafia. That makes him more than just a contractor connected to organized crime, it makes him a participant in organized crime.

Ciminelli, a trustee in Local 210's pension fund, was charged in a criminal complaint with improper use of pension funds alongside prominent organized crime figures, most of whom were also trustees. This complaint was directly based around organized crime's "control (of) the Pension Fund."

Originally Posted by NickleCity

You see, there seems to be a double standard as to what can be inferred about the Buffalo family.

No there isn't.
Saying that a union trustee, who was charged in a racketeering criminal complaint alongside powerful Buffalo Mafia figures, is connected to organized crime figures is a helluva lot different than trying to directly contradict all available reputable evidence regarding a crime family.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

I hear from a funeral director that I trust that Butch BiFulco was at Nicoletti’s funeral and many people US & Canadian are there showing him a great deal of respect as he stands with family at cemetery. This doesn’t prove anything, but in my book lends credibility to the unsubstantiated report he is head of what is left of Buffalo Crime Family.

Here's the thing Nickle. You have no evidence of that whatsoever. You have also never been proven right in any of your unsubstantiated street talk. People have been lying on internet forums about the Mafia since the forums began in the 1990s. Whose to say you're any different. None of us know who you are whatsoever and you have no track record to go on.
So sure, hearing about BiFulco getting respect at a funeral would really help your point. But for all I know, that is complete B.S.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

Throw in Otremens operation and the academic article that mentions the “Todaro Crime Family Syndicate” and the fact that there is a 1 prominent FBI informant from the ‘90’s on a mob related Facebook group saying the family is active, not connected to the Bonanno’s (as some are inferring on other forums) and involved with healthcare fraud with other LCN families, then I believe it is reasonable to infer Buffalo is small but organized and active, just as you inferred Ciminelli was mobbed up, even though there is no factual evidence that he was.


There is factual evidence that Ciminelli was under the control of the Buffalo Mafia. That is because there is evidence that Local 210's Pension Fund was under the control of the Mafia, and Ciminelli was a trustee on the pension fund. There is also evidence that Ciminelli was associated with the Buffalo Mafia because he was charged in a racketeering complaint with the Buffalo Mafia, meaning that he was committing crimes in furtherance of an ongoing criminal organization - from the complaint, this ongoing criminal organization was the "Buffalo organized crime syndicate."

That is why the allegation can be made that Ciminelli is mobbed-up. He committed crimes on behalf of the Buffalo Mafia.


Compare this to the allegation that the Buffalo Mafia, in 2018, is still an active crime family. There have been multiple law enforcement statements that the Buffalo Mafia is no longer active. This is coming from the very people dedicated to fighting organized crime. These are not just from one law enforcement agency, either. This claim has been echoed by district attorneys, federal prosecutors, etc. This claim has also been backed up by dedicated organized crime reporters - in particular, Buffalo and Niagara Falls reporters who have regularly reported on the Buffalo Mob for years.
There have been no law enforcement officers or journalists that have said Louis Ciminelli is completely free from organized crime ties. In fact, law enforcement has charged Ciminelli with aiding the racketeering conspiracy (i.e. the Buffalo Mafia).
It shouldn't be hard to see the difference here Nickle.

Now comes the common sense angle. My argument is that Ciminelli was connected to organized crime and "mobbed up." As I said before, mobbed-up may not have been the best term because it's too colloquial and you decided to hang onto it in order to make your point. Also the definition for "mobbed-up" varies. "Connections to organized crime" is a lot easier to explain. Louis Ciminelli did illegal business in furtherance of a Buffalo Mafia-controlled racketeering conspiracy. That makes him a) "connected to organized crime" and b) "mobbed up" by my definition. Even though nobody has specifically come out and said "Louis Ciminelli is an organized crime figure or associate," common sense says that yes, he had extensive connections to the Buffalo Mafia because he did illegal business under the illegally-controlled union with organized crime figures.

Meanwhile, common sense says that the Buffalo Mafia is not active. This is because, in the 21st century, no known active family has been able to avoid indictments. For Buffalo to be active, it would have to break the mold, despite the fact that those with no current connection to the family (funeral directors, Ron Fino, The Rooster, NickleCity) know of it's illegal activities or have observed classic Mafia functions. Secondly, if the Buffalo Mafia was active, than law enforcement, especially the FBI's Organized Crime Branch in Buffalo, would be open, active, and ready to go after it as opposed to denying it for no reason. As well as this, organized crime reporters would want to report on the Buffalo Mafia if it was active since it's their full-time job and their bread and butter. The fact that they are saying the family is not active is indicative that the family is indeed not active.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/15/18 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I have not been on here in a while.

I see some new info on Buffalo.

If anyone remembers that was my guess that the family was still viable however, probably not in a traditional sense....

That possibly the power bad shifted to Canada and the family would resemble a structure similar to Rizzutto than L.C.N.

That's basically what that chart says.

Which chart is that, Bensonhurst?

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

?????

Everyone in agreement of.

The family still exists and has rackets and like any other family there is some sort of leadership.

Just not Boss, UB, Consig, Capo etc.


If you've been reading this thread, you know that's not in agreement.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/16/18 02:19 AM

I started out by saying I haven't been on i a while.

I have not read the whole thread ??
It is a novel at this point LOL

I skimmed the last couple of pages and seen a picture/chart from IHS that lists Buffalo as a family however, not LCN

I thought you posted it?
A couple of pages back?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/16/18 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I started out by saying I haven't been on i a while.

I have not read the whole thread ??
It is a novel at this point LOL

I skimmed the last couple of pages and seen a picture/chart from IHS that lists Buffalo as a family however, not LCN

I thought you posted it?
A couple of pages back?


Not a chart, but a map of where the alleged Todaro syndicate is based IIRC
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/19/18 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Looks like the Ciminelli connection to organised crime figures is right there in your post, Nickle.


That is a wild accuasation. There is just circumstantial evidence that we are drawing an inference from. There is no factual evidence in this article that this “upstanding” prominent business was “mobbed up” as you put it. The article only said he is a supporter of the duely elected leadership of 210. How dare we jump to conclusions.

Ciminelli worked with known organized crime figures. So when I said; "And there’s no doubt the Ciminelli family has connections to the mob as do most construction bigwigs from the 1990s" I was right. He has connections to the mob in that he did business in the construction industry with known organized crime figures who committed crimes within the construction industry.
"Mobbed up" was the wrong terminology, but there is absolutely no doubt that he had connections with the mob.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

Further, there is no evidence to support the accusation that he is mobbed in the 210 RICO from ‘91 that sues the trustees for improper use of pension funds. Court documents never make an allegation that he is connected to organized crime... They just say there are known members of 210 that are.

As far as we know Ciminelli is just a legitimate trustee caught up in forces beyond his control. In a previous post you even agreed that there is no factual evidence to indicate he wasn’t a legitimate trustee.

Whether willingly or unwillingly, he had connections to organized crime. In the '91 indictment, it says this:
"The plaintiffs allege that organized crime controls the defendant Laborers' International Union of North America Local #210 located in Buffalo, New York ("Local 210"). The plaintiffs further allege that Local 210 and organized crime control the Pension Fund."

So Ciminelli's improper use of pension funds was, based on the indictment, done under the control of the Buffalo Mafia. That makes him more than just a contractor connected to organized crime, it makes him a participant in organized crime.

Ciminelli, a trustee in Local 210's pension fund, was charged in a criminal complaint with improper use of pension funds alongside prominent organized crime figures, most of whom were also trustees. This complaint was directly based around organized crime's "control (of) the Pension Fund."

Originally Posted by NickleCity

You see, there seems to be a double standard as to what can be inferred about the Buffalo family.

No there isn't.
Saying that a union trustee, who was charged in a racketeering criminal complaint alongside powerful Buffalo Mafia figures, is connected to organized crime figures is a helluva lot different than trying to directly contradict all available reputable evidence regarding a crime family.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

I hear from a funeral director that I trust that Butch BiFulco was at Nicoletti’s funeral and many people US & Canadian are there showing him a great deal of respect as he stands with family at cemetery. This doesn’t prove anything, but in my book lends credibility to the unsubstantiated report he is head of what is left of Buffalo Crime Family.

Here's the thing Nickle. You have no evidence of that whatsoever. You have also never been proven right in any of your unsubstantiated street talk. People have been lying on internet forums about the Mafia since the forums began in the 1990s. Whose to say you're any different. None of us know who you are whatsoever and you have no track record to go on.
So sure, hearing about BiFulco getting respect at a funeral would really help your point. But for all I know, that is complete B.S.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

Throw in Otremens operation and the academic article that mentions the “Todaro Crime Family Syndicate” and the fact that there is a 1 prominent FBI informant from the ‘90’s on a mob related Facebook group saying the family is active, not connected to the Bonanno’s (as some are inferring on other forums) and involved with healthcare fraud with other LCN families, then I believe it is reasonable to infer Buffalo is small but organized and active, just as you inferred Ciminelli was mobbed up, even though there is no factual evidence that he was.


There is factual evidence that Ciminelli was under the control of the Buffalo Mafia. That is because there is evidence that Local 210's Pension Fund was under the control of the Mafia, and Ciminelli was a trustee on the pension fund. There is also evidence that Ciminelli was associated with the Buffalo Mafia because he was charged in a racketeering complaint with the Buffalo Mafia, meaning that he was committing crimes in furtherance of an ongoing criminal organization - from the complaint, this ongoing criminal organization was the "Buffalo organized crime syndicate."

That is why the allegation can be made that Ciminelli is mobbed-up. He committed crimes on behalf of the Buffalo Mafia.


Compare this to the allegation that the Buffalo Mafia, in 2018, is still an active crime family. There have been multiple law enforcement statements that the Buffalo Mafia is no longer active. This is coming from the very people dedicated to fighting organized crime. These are not just from one law enforcement agency, either. This claim has been echoed by district attorneys, federal prosecutors, etc. This claim has also been backed up by dedicated organized crime reporters - in particular, Buffalo and Niagara Falls reporters who have regularly reported on the Buffalo Mob for years.
There have been no law enforcement officers or journalists that have said Louis Ciminelli is completely free from organized crime ties. In fact, law enforcement has charged Ciminelli with aiding the racketeering conspiracy (i.e. the Buffalo Mafia).
It shouldn't be hard to see the difference here Nickle.

Now comes the common sense angle. My argument is that Ciminelli was connected to organized crime and "mobbed up." As I said before, mobbed-up may not have been the best term because it's too colloquial and you decided to hang onto it in order to make your point. Also the definition for "mobbed-up" varies. "Connections to organized crime" is a lot easier to explain. Louis Ciminelli did illegal business in furtherance of a Buffalo Mafia-controlled racketeering conspiracy. That makes him a) "connected to organized crime" and b) "mobbed up" by my definition. Even though nobody has specifically come out and said "Louis Ciminelli is an organized crime figure or associate," common sense says that yes, he had extensive connections to the Buffalo Mafia because he did illegal business under the illegally-controlled union with organized crime figures.

Meanwhile, common sense says that the Buffalo Mafia is not active. This is because, in the 21st century, no known active family has been able to avoid indictments. For Buffalo to be active, it would have to break the mold, despite the fact that those with no current connection to the family (funeral directors, Ron Fino, The Rooster, NickleCity) know of it's illegal activities or have observed classic Mafia functions. Secondly, if the Buffalo Mafia was active, than law enforcement, especially the FBI's Organized Crime Branch in Buffalo, would be open, active, and ready to go after it as opposed to denying it for no reason. As well as this, organized crime reporters would want to report on the Buffalo Mafia if it was active since it's their full-time job and their bread and butter. The fact that they are saying the family is not active is indicative that the family is indeed not active.


It comes down to veracity of sources. I trust the people I’ve heard from. So I guess I should have been more precise: It is reasonable for me to believe what’s left of the family is organized and active, given my relationship with the person(s) I've talked to. It may not be reasonable for you are anyone else to believe the family is organized and active if you don’t have trustworthy sources indicating it is. It is reasonable for you to believe “only few remnants remain.” Point is reasonable people can draw different yet reasonable conclusions.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/19/18 09:08 PM

So we’re right back to where we started, huh? I’ve been saying this since day one: if you’ve got street sources, fine, but don’t a) state them as fact, b) take offence when people don’t believe them and c) call people delusional, sheep, or any other associated terms if they don’t believe them. This doesn’t necessarily apply to you Nickle, but it applies to a lot of people. If you think the Buffalo family is active based on private sources you have, god bless, but don’t argue endlessly against the evidence at hand. Don’t, for one second, even INFER that the evidence at hand points to the traditional Buffalo family being active, as a structural LCN enterprise. That’s all I’ve been saying since day one, Nickle, and it doesn’t necessarily apply to you since you’ve been nothing but respectful and intelligent on this forum but apply to a handful of people. Since Day 1 my argument has not been “You can’t possibly have street sources”, my argument has been “Don’t argue that you’re unverified street sources are more credible than the federal government.”
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/19/18 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
So we’re right back to where we started, huh? I’ve been saying this since day one: if you’ve got street sources, fine, but don’t a) state them as fact, b) take offence when people don’t believe them and c) call people delusional, sheep, or any other associated terms if they don’t believe them. This doesn’t necessarily apply to you Nickle, but it applies to a lot of people. If you think the Buffalo family is active based on private sources you have, god bless, but don’t argue endlessly against the evidence at hand. Don’t, for one second, even INFER that the evidence at hand points to the traditional Buffalo family being active, as a structural LCN enterprise. That’s all I’ve been saying since day one, Nickle, and it doesn’t necessarily apply to you since you’ve been nothing but respectful and intelligent on this forum but apply to a handful of people. Since Day 1 my argument has not been “You can’t possibly have street sources”, my argument has been “Don’t argue that you’re unverified street sources are more credible than the federal government.”


@Nicky, What is this all about? Did you bait me--so you could belittle me again? You are the one that brought it up. You asked the question when you wrote:

Quote
So, I'll be the one to mention it. A case like this, with a star cooperating witness, wiretaps, the works, and there was no mention or indication of any overarching secret criminal organization such as the Buffalo Mafia? Even though forum members allegedly with their ears to the streets said it was a classic mob bust through and through? Did I miss something indicating that it was?


I only responded to you, because you asked. I was perfectly content to leave things where things were they were at. Nobody on this thread has done your: a), b), or c), in a while. In fact, because no one has done your a), b), or c) in a while I have to believe your comments are aimed at me. Bensonhurst and I are the only ones to have responded on this thread since your question.

Even before your question I only posted links to the Ciminelli trial. Notice I didn't comment. I didn't suggest LCN. Further, I posted the links because what happened was organized crime that took place in Buffalo. I even said there is no evidence of LCN structure, or of a LCN family in this trial. But I posted the links because what Cimineli did was organized and it was crime. He worked with several other individuals in NYS government and elsewhere who organized this bid rigging scheme and were indicted and some even convicted, as he was. Maybe I should have established a different thread. My fault I ask your forgiveness! I just thought since Ciminelli in the past was, as you readily admit, "connect" to LCN and "mobbed up" as you put it, it would be OK to go here. Maybe I was wrong. I am sorry it has offended you so greatly.

Please understand it was not my intention to hurt your feelings and cause you to lash out in this way.

Please take it down a notch. Please treat me and others with the respect we deserve. I, really, don't know what threw you into a rage over this, given the fact that I didn't do your a, b, or c. And I don't believe Bensonhurst did either.

Also, I never said I had a street source. I would not call the undertaker or preachers I know street sources. They are sources however and we all know street sources or any sources can be wrong. And, I hope we all know the federal government isn't always right either. My only point and I wouldn't have made it again if you didn't ask the question.

What I would appreciate is you not intimating I am unreasonable, especially when you begged the question and my response.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/20/18 03:26 AM

You answered my question, Nickle, and I thanked you for that. Then you brought up Cuomo and then Ciminelli and started going on about an alleged double standard and began sarcastically berating me for inferring Ciminelli was mobbed-up, which evidence shows he is.
Then you began saying how, with the sources you personally have, you believe the Buffalo family is active and that it is reasonable for you to believe it was active based on your sources. That’s when I said, “sure that’s fine, but my issue is with the people who pretend their sources are fact and call people delusional for not believing them,” or words to that effect. I mentioned multiple times that you were not necessarily guilty of this but many previous posters were. Then you decided to ignore that and take it as a personal insult, despite the fact that I explicitly said my issue was not with you, it was the people who paraded their unverified street talk as fact. The reason I made this comment was because you were justifying why you believed the family still active. My response was an attempt to say “fine, there’s nothing wrong with that but there is something wrong with other posters who say such and such.”
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/25/18 03:32 PM

I am pretty sure everyone agrees that the evidence points more to.an evolution rather than an extinction of the Buffalo LCN,

Nicky, are you sticking to your position that they belong in the same category of other extinct LCN families that are just be memory?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/25/18 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I am pretty sure everyone agrees that the evidence points more to.an evolution rather than an extinction of the Buffalo LCN,

Nicky, are you sticking to your position that they belong in the same category of other extinct LCN families that are just be memory?



Organised crime in a specific city doesn’t go extinct. There is still organised crime in New Orleans and Kansas City and the like. And the old career criminal mob guys don’t just get jobs at Cinnabon and retire from crime.

I am sticking to the evidence at hand which says that the Buffalo crime family, the traditional La Cosa Nostra family with capos and induction ceremonies in the city of Buffalo and surrounding areas, is extinct. There is no way to look at the cold hard evidence and say otherwise. In Canada it could very well have changed structure and shape, but even then the traditional Buffalo LCN structure in Canada is extinct.
Again, if you have street sources that you trust who say otherwise, that’s great. But the evidence is pretty loud and clear in saying that, in Buffalo, the Todaro/Magaddino crime family has gone the way of the dodo. Remember, I’ve said in the past that I am OPEN to the Canadian wing of the family having branched off and done it’s own thing following the assassinations of Papalia and his top lieutenant because there was no crippling law enforcement pressure like there was in the states, however it would be foolish to assume they would have co-existed with the other powerful region organisations, including the guys who killed Papalia.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/28/18 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I am pretty sure everyone agrees that the evidence points more to.an evolution rather than an extinction of the Buffalo LCN,

Nicky, are you sticking to your position that they belong in the same category of other extinct LCN families that are just be memory?


Not everyone agrees, but Edwards points to an evolution of sorts when he writes the following about the Buffalo Families organization as of 2013:

Quote
This revived La Cosa Nostra was more loosely structured now, and more of a network than a tight organization. Contacts, expertise and experience were shared across organizational lines, for mutual benefit.

Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/28/18 05:10 AM

Edwards is interesting and, as I’ve always said, there are undoubtedly lots of guys that remained active, or even solid crews. But there is more reputable evidence that the Buffalo LCN is dead, and that includes statements from multiple Buffalo journalists, DAs, prosecutors, Buffalo organised crime agents, and yes, even Ron Fino.
More specifically, there is Mafia threat in Western NYS. So maybe there are independent crews, members from other crime families, members from Canada, but not enough for the FBI to want to investigate.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/28/18 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Edwards is interesting and, as I’ve always said, there are undoubtedly lots of guys that remained active, or even solid crews. But there is more reputable evidence that the Buffalo LCN is dead, and that includes statements from multiple Buffalo journalists, DAs, prosecutors, Buffalo organised crime agents, and yes, even Ron Fino.
More specifically, there is Mafia threat in Western NYS. So maybe there are independent crews, members from other crime families, members from Canada, but not enough for the FBI to want to investigate.


Family may be small but is active and organized enough to be involved with healthcare fraud with other families.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/29/18 06:31 AM

There's no credible, verified information that says that is true and those saying that the family is active with healthcare fraud are not in any position to actually know.
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/29/18 08:42 PM

SC must not get on here anymore. Back in the days he would've shut this down 7 pages ago.

I mean 11 pages fellas. Agree to disagree and move on.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/30/18 03:33 PM

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese


At this point we can say that the family's canadian crew was merged with luppino family and that in the buffalo area there are only 20 mobsters or less.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/30/18 06:40 PM

Furio, it’s one thing to say the family is active, it’s another to make a completely bullshit chart up out of thin air.
The reason the discussion between me and Nickle hasn’t been closed yet is because neither of us are lying, fabricating or being ignorant of the facts. But how am I supposed to react when a completely unverified chart is posted on the thread?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/30/18 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Furio, it’s one thing to say the family is active, it’s another to make a completely bullshit chart up out of thin air.
The reason the discussion between me and Nickle hasn’t been closed yet is because neither of us are lying, fabricating or being ignorant of the facts. But how am I supposed to react when a completely unverified chart is posted on the thread?


The site where I find the chart (Bill Feather'site) was realible until now. And anyway apart the FBI who could give a "reliable chart"?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/30/18 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Furio, it’s one thing to say the family is active, it’s another to make a completely bullshit chart up out of thin air.
The reason the discussion between me and Nickle hasn’t been closed yet is because neither of us are lying, fabricating or being ignorant of the facts. But how am I supposed to react when a completely unverified chart is posted on the thread?


The site where I find the chart (Bill Feather'site) was realible until now. And anyway apart the FBI who could give a "reliable chart"?


Except for the fact that you added your own BS facts, didn't you Furio? Nowhere on Bill Feather's chart (http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false), does it list anybody as an underboss or consigliere.

Did you think that you could blatantly lie about Bill Feather's chart and I wouldn't notice?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/31/18 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Furio, it’s one thing to say the family is active, it’s another to make a completely bullshit chart up out of thin air.
The reason the discussion between me and Nickle hasn’t been closed yet is because neither of us are lying, fabricating or being ignorant of the facts. But how am I supposed to react when a completely unverified chart is posted on the thread?


The site where I find the chart (Bill Feather'site) was realible until now. And anyway apart the FBI who could give a "reliable chart"?


Except for the fact that you added your own BS facts, didn't you Furio? Nowhere on Bill Feather's chart (http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false), does it list anybody as an underboss or consigliere.

Did you think that you could blatantly lie about Bill Feather's chart and I wouldn't notice?


I don't lied I said only that the site was reliable until now,I put the underboss and consigliere names when started the thread in 2016.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/31/18 10:30 AM

Maybe it's the language barrier but you just posted the chart, with underboss, consiglieres, etc., and then posted that you got it from Bill Feather's site, despite the fact that the chart you posted was definitely not from Bill Feather's site, and you made up titles and ranks.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/31/18 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Maybe it's the language barrier but you just posted the chart, with underboss, consiglieres, etc., and then posted that you got it from Bill Feather's site, despite the fact that the chart you posted was definitely not from Bill Feather's site, and you made up titles and ranks.


Ok this is the list from bill feather's site

1. BiFulco-Frank 1945 Capo
2. Brindisi-Pasquale Paddy 1942 Utica
3. Bordonaro-Ignazio Harold Canada
4. Cannizzaro-Annunzio Red
5. Carcone-Russell 1954 Capo Utica
6. Cardinale-Ronald 1951
7. Caruso-Corrado Cookie Canada
8. Chimera-Robert 1936
9. Cipolla-Frank
10. Cipolla-Paul* Canada
11. Corelli-Phillip 1963 Utica
12. Criminisi-Ralph Canada
13. DePaolo-Bruno* Bronzie 1967 Canada
14. DePaolo-Joseph* Joey Dips Canada
15. DePaolo-Michael* Canada
16. DiCarlo-Donald* 1939
17. Falzone-Frank* 1950
18. Falzone-Leonard 1935 Boss
19. Feliciano-James 1977 Utica
20. Ferraro-Frank 1943 Utica
21. Frangiamore-Sam Jnr. The Farmer 1952
22. Giglia-William 1946
23. Inserra-Anthony 1946 Utica
24. Italiano-Dominic Capo Canada
25. Lombardo-Vincent Canada
26. Luppino-Anthony* Canada
27. Luppino-John* Canada
28. Luppino-Natale* Canada
29. Luppino-Rocco* Canada
30. Mambrino-Carmen 1969
31. Marino-Frank 1940 Utica
32. Minicone-Jack* 1948 Utica
33. Monaco-Bruno Canada
34. Nappi-Donato* Dan 1943
35. Panaro-Robert Snowball 1943
36. Papalia-Frank 1930 Canada
37. Papalia-Rocco 1935 Canada
38. Perri-Frank* Canada
39. Pieri-John
40. Pieri-Joseph Jnr.
41. Pugliese-Anthony* Canada
42. Pugliese-Joseph Capo Canada
43. Pugliese-Pasquale* Canada
44. Randazzo-Joseph
45. Sabella-Joseph
46. Sansanese-Victor 1945
47. Scopelliti-Rocco 1935
48. Tavano-Larry 1941
49. Tavano-Louis 1941
50. Tavano-Robert 1938
51. Todaro-Joseph Jnr. 1947
52. Todaro-Richard 1936
53. Tutino-Nicholas*
54. Vaccaro-Dominic
55. Volpe-Albert

55 made men are too for a dead family and I said first that maybe the names of the canadian faction are simply members of the Luppino family and not buffalo soldiers.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 07/31/18 06:48 PM

Thanks Furio.
And, in the other Buffalo thread, we also established that the chart is inaccurate because it lists associates as members frequently, meaning this list could actually be more than double of who were know are actually made members. For example, all we know about James Feliciano is that he was arrested as part of Russ Carcone’s fencing ring. We have no idea in what capacity. But Bill Feather lists him as made. There is not a sliver of evidence that even points to that being true. I’m sure there are far more examples and yes, like you said, the Luppino thing is probably a factor as well. All in all, Bill Feather is a researcher - he has no real authority over other mainstream sources, since all he does is compile information from mainstream sources. Why he lists associates as made members (I have some examples in his Tampa chart as well), is anybody’s guess. But there is no way that anybody can point to his charts and say “Look, Bill says the family has (blank) members and the feds only say the family has (blank) members! The feds must be lying.”
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Thanks Furio.
And, in the other Buffalo thread, we also established that the chart is inaccurate because it lists associates as members frequently, meaning this list could actually be more than double of who were know are actually made members. For example, all we know about James Feliciano is that he was arrested as part of Russ Carcone’s fencing ring. We have no idea in what capacity. But Bill Feather lists him as made. There is not a sliver of evidence that even points to that being true. I’m sure there are far more examples and yes, like you said, the Luppino thing is probably a factor as well. All in all, Bill Feather is a researcher - he has no real authority over other mainstream sources, since all he does is compile information from mainstream sources. Why he lists associates as made members (I have some examples in his Tampa chart as well), is anybody’s guess. But there is no way that anybody can point to his charts and say “Look, Bill says the family has (blank) members and the feds only say the family has (blank) members! The feds must be lying.”



I found this Mukremin 2012 chart of Buffalo family

[Linked Image]
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 09:07 AM

Furio, that seems to correlate more with what we know. Mukremin is a great organized crime poster and chart-maker, but I don't think he has ever admitted to knowing more than the feds or other acclaimed sources. He is simply an organized crime researcher who specializes in making charts.
So this chart here is, again, not any sort of admission or evidence that the Buffalo crime family is still active. Far from it. Don't be mistaken that it is.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Furio, that seems to correlate more with what we know. Mukremin is a great organized crime poster and chart-maker, but I don't think he has ever admitted to knowing more than the feds or other acclaimed sources. He is simply an organized crime researcher who specializes in making charts.
So this chart here is, again, not any sort of admission or evidence that the Buffalo crime family is still active. Far from it. Don't be mistaken that it is.


This is true and if what I think would be also true, ie that the canadian faction was merged with the Luppino family there are only 11 made members and maybe 10/20 associate.So the family is definitly dead.
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 04:35 PM

One of the 5 new york families would probably have a crew in buffalo if there wasn't anything going on
Posted By: WhackWhack

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 04:39 PM

Anyone know anything about an alleged Magadinno-Frank Sinatra incident ? Wondering if anyone else knows about it before I go into further detail.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/01/18 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by cookcounty
One of the 5 new york families would probably have a crew in buffalo if there wasn't anything going on


What makes you say that?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/10/18 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by WhackWhack
Anyone know anything about an alleged Magadinno-Frank Sinatra incident ? Wondering if anyone else knows about it before I go into further detail.


I'm interested, tell me more.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/10/18 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Nope. Fino doesn't believe the family is active either. The 2017 article that I linked previously has Fino saying the family is not active.

But, you know what, you make a good point. Fino, in 2017, said the family is not active, and I have cited this previously. But in 2012 he was saying they do exist and operate more clandestinely. And when he first flipped, he was outed as a bullshitter when he jumped on the OJ Simpson bandwagon and tried to make up some stories about him.

Fino is not really in a position to know any "street knowledge" regarding the Buffalo mob from 1990-onwards, when he publicly flipped.

But, if we are putting him down as a reliable source, then we can comfortably say that, as of 2017, he does not believe the family is active and seems to have changed his mind from 2012-2017.


Herbeck does not state that that Fino says "the family is not active." He writes:

Quote
“There are a few remnants of the mob that still exist in Buffalo,” said Ronald Fino, a former union leader who helped the FBI investigate the local mob, “but it’s not the same.”


This is constant with his letter to the Buffalo News in 2012 were he writes:

Quote
Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.


In other words the Buffalo family "still exists, because there continues to be a "remnant of of the mob" in Buffalo. (A remnant just means a smaller remaining quantity.) It is "not the same," because it is smaller. This smaller LCN, they "have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability and this in no way means they don not exist and make money from illegal operations.... They operated clandestinely."

Here is the deal... We both read into these statements based on our presuppositions. So I don't think you can definitively say that is what Fino believes. Further, I would make a wager that if someone had a chance to discuss this issue with Fino, he would agree with my presupposition. But like that is ever going to happen. So who knows, maybe your right. I just doubt it.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/10/18 03:59 AM

Except here's the thing.

A. - Ronald Fino cannot possibly have any inside knowledge above, for example, the FBI on the Buffalo crime family considering he publicly flipped in 1989/1990. I have said this various times, even when the consensus was that he was on "my side," if you will.
B. - You've taken Fino's comment out of context. The very sentence before Fino is quoted, the article writes: "Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader."
So what Fino appears to be saying, in relation to the rest of the article, is that there are remnants of the mob left but no viable organization. I have never disputed that. I have always maintained that there are probably multiple members of the family that are still active in crime. You can choose to take Fino's comment out of context, but I am choosing to read it in relation to the previous statements leading up to that, and to the article as a whole, which is definitive in its explanation that the family, as a viable entity, is dead.

We can argue until we're blue in the face what Fino truly believes. But the fact remains that he is not only contradictory, but he is really not in a legitimate position to know whether the family is active. He does not decide whether the family is active. He is not a true authority on the matter. His opinion, I'll concede, is definitely important, but it does not compete with actual investigators, agents and prosecutors, which is where the bulk of my argument lies. We should also take into account that he is currently promoting his own book if I recall correctly, so it is in his best interests to inflate the Buffalo Mafia to fit his narrative. I am not saying that he is outright lying, nor that he has any real ill intentions behind what he's been saying recently, but a culmination of all these things means that it's hard for anybody to take Fino as a foremost decider on whether the family is active.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/10/18 03:00 PM

RON FINO TALKS ABOUT LCN, UNION CORRUPTION, & RUSSIAN OC

The above link to Ron's Interview on 8/7/18 has some interesting information. Most of it Ron has said or written before, but this shows his consistency of thought adding some other tidbits I didn't know or had forgotten. Here are a few things I found interesting:

1. He briefly mentions Buffalo being active stating he goes back to WNY from time to time and some of those involved are friends with him on facebook. (Not that he learns anything from them... the point is he knows they are still active.)
2. He continues to state then cleanup of LIUNA was never complete and that O'Sullivan was a crony of Coia intimating O'Sullivan and LIUNA are still corrupt. You will notice he suggests the corruption "has changed."
3. He talks about the prevalence of healthcare fraud and how easy it would be for the mob and unions to be involved in it.
4. He indicates Buffalo LCN controlled or had great influence on justice department in WNY putting federal prosecutors in place who were sympathetic to their cause well into 80's/90's.
5. He talks about why we can't always believe what we read in the newspapers even though the reporters are often "well meaninged" in their mistakes.

Nicky, I may have taken Fino's quote out of Herbeck's context... But I do not believe I took Fino out of context. This interview strongly suggests his continuity of thought on the topic and makes a case that Herbeck took him out of context. And yes, Fino is in the process of beginning to promote a documentary on his life, but I didn't believe he is sensationalizing or making things up to sell tickets. In this interview he makes a compelling argument why he doesn't sensationalize.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/14/18 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/09/buffalo-mob-may-be-dead-but-it-is-not.html

Quote
If the resulting 2006 FBI chart was correct, the Buffalo crew appeared to be a little top heavy. A boss and underboss, a consigliere, and four capos are shown to be presiding over a crew of just 16 �soldiers,� made guys who presumably do most of the heavy lifting.


Chart founded on the web

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese



Furio, here is the FBI's actual 2006 Buffalo Crime Family chart that you referenced at the beginning of this thread. Living members have been redacted (blanked) for the following reasons: (b)(6) & (b)(7)(C):

[Linked Image]

(b)(6) personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(b)(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information ( A ) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, ( B ) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, ( D ) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, ( E ) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or ( F ) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/15/18 12:26 AM

GREAT Find Nickle.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/30/18 03:14 AM

BENJAMIN “SONNY” NICOLETTI, THE BONNANOS, MONTREAL, VIOLI’S & HAMILTON

I recently reread The Niagara Falls Reporter Sept. 11, 2012 article on Nicoletti titled Falls’ Benjamin “Sonny” Nicoletti; Part of the Falls’ unique character by Mike Hudson. After the Bonanno making ceremony, Violi/drug trafficking arrests, and the mention of the Todaro Crime Family in the Hamilton area of Canada the following quote strikes me as interesting. Hudson writes:

Quote
A mobbed up former inmate who served with Nicoletti at the Loretto Federal Correctional Institution in Pennsylvania during his 1993 bid said Sonny was a quiet guy and a gentleman who only cared about football and taking bets.
“Everyone knows he wasn't a saint, but he was very respected through the country,” the former inmate said. “And of course he was old school.”

Nicoletti was held in high regard from the guys in New York and Rochester. Sonny was close with Rochester capo Frank Frassetto, who thought the world of Nicoletti, and members of the Bonnano family of New York such as caporegime Joey Chille said he was well respected from Montreal to Manhattan


Also his Rochester B team buddy Frank Frassetto was arrested for Heroin trafficking in 2006, if I remember correctly.

QUESTIONS
1. Could this indicate what was left of Buffalo was absorbed by the Bonannos?

2. If rumors that he was Buffalo’s underboss were true, did he use his respect and relationships to forge work across family lines and reinvigorate the drug trafficking triangle established by Magaddino and his cousin Joe Bonanno?

3. Is this just a hell of a coincidence?

4. Does it raise other questions about the O’Tremmens operation and the mention of a Todaro Crime Family being involved?

5. What are your ideas and thoughts?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/30/18 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
BENJAMIN “SONNY” NICOLETTI, THE BONNANOS, MONTREAL, VIOLI’S & HAMILTON

I recently reread The Niagara Falls Reporter Sept. 11, 2012 article on Nicoletti titled Falls’ Benjamin “Sonny” Nicoletti; Part of the Falls’ unique character by Mike Hudson. After the Bonanno making ceremony, Violi/drug trafficking arrests, and the mention of the Todaro Crime Family in the Hamilton area of Canada the following quote strikes me as interesting. Hudson writes:

Quote
A mobbed up former inmate who served with Nicoletti at the Loretto Federal Correctional Institution in Pennsylvania during his 1993 bid said Sonny was a quiet guy and a gentleman who only cared about football and taking bets.
“Everyone knows he wasn't a saint, but he was very respected through the country,” the former inmate said. “And of course he was old school.”

Nicoletti was held in high regard from the guys in New York and Rochester. Sonny was close with Rochester capo Frank Frassetto, who thought the world of Nicoletti, and members of the Bonnano family of New York such as caporegime Joey Chille said he was well respected from Montreal to Manhattan


Also his Rochester B team buddy Frank Frassetto was arrested for Heroin trafficking in 2006, if I remember correctly.

QUESTIONS
1. Could this indicate what was left of Buffalo was absorbed by the Bonannos?

Very possible. Everybody knows about the longstanding ties, but it's interesting to hear about Jerry Chilli too, who was still a high-ranking member until his recent death.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

2. If rumors that he was Buffalo’s underboss were true, did he use his respect and relationships to forge work across family lines and reinvigorate the drug trafficking triangle established by Magaddino and his cousin Joe Bonanno?

Woah now. Nowhere in the article does it allude to that.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

3. Is this just a hell of a coincidence?

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by NickleCity

4. Does it raise other questions about the O’Tremmens operation and the mention of a Todaro Crime Family being involved?

5. What are your ideas and thoughts?


I don't think it throws much confusion into the prevailing theory of many, who believe that the "Todaro crime family" members arrested in Canada were members of the long-defunct Canada crew. It's doubtful that this crew could have died on it's own accord due to the lack of police pressure, but there is a huge reason to believe that it was taken over or absorbed by it's warring rivals, who murdered the Todaro-Canada crew's top leader and right-hand-man in one clean sweep.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 08/30/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity
BENJAMIN “SONNY” NICOLETTI, THE BONNANOS, MONTREAL, VIOLI’S & HAMILTON

I recently reread The Niagara Falls Reporter Sept. 11, 2012 article on Nicoletti titled Falls’ Benjamin “Sonny” Nicoletti; Part of the Falls’ unique character by Mike Hudson. After the Bonanno making ceremony, Violi/drug trafficking arrests, and the mention of the Todaro Crime Family in the Hamilton area of Canada the following quote strikes me as interesting. Hudson writes:

Quote
A mobbed up former inmate who served with Nicoletti at the Loretto Federal Correctional Institution in Pennsylvania during his 1993 bid said Sonny was a quiet guy and a gentleman who only cared about football and taking bets.
“Everyone knows he wasn't a saint, but he was very respected through the country,” the former inmate said. “And of course he was old school.”

Nicoletti was held in high regard from the guys in New York and Rochester. Sonny was close with Rochester capo Frank Frassetto, who thought the world of Nicoletti, and members of the Bonnano family of New York such as caporegime Joey Chille said he was well respected from Montreal to Manhattan


Also his Rochester B team buddy Frank Frassetto was arrested for Heroin trafficking in 2006, if I remember correctly.

QUESTIONS
1. Could this indicate what was left of Buffalo was absorbed by the Bonannos?


Very possible. Everybody knows about the longstanding ties, but it's interesting to hear about Jerry Chilli too, who was still a high-ranking member until his recent death.

Originally Posted by NickleCity

2. If rumors that he was Buffalo’s underboss were true, did he use his respect and relationships to forge work across family lines and reinvigorate the drug trafficking triangle established by Magaddino and his cousin Joe Bonanno?

Woah now. Nowhere in the article does it allude to that.


I get the article nowhere allude to his working to reinvigorate the trafficking triangle... but no were in the article does it allude to the Buffalo Crime Family being absorbed by the Bonannos. Both notions are arrived at via inductive reasoning. They are just backed by different presuppositions.

If the family is active and organized (yes, I know the argument against) Nicoletti had the connections to reinvolve the family in this drug trafficking triangle. His friend Frassetto and his sons were know to distribute heroin in Rochester during the mid to late 2000's. Sonny was respected in Montreal, close to Bonanno Capo Chilli, and had a long established working relationship with the Violi Brothers, the Luppino's, and Papilia's who were all alleged to have strong connections to Buffalo. Just saying, if he was the underboss of Buffalo as is alleged by several unverified sources over the years, he could have played a decent role in the precursors to the Otremen stuff.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/18/18 01:51 PM

The following was posted by Antimafia on the thread "Another Mob Guy Murdered." Put it here as well for those who have been following this thread and trying to determine if Buffalo is active or not.

Originally Posted by antimafia
Buffalo mob playing role in deadly Ontario dispute, sources say

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...-deadly-ontario-dispute-sources-say.html
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 12:20 AM

Very interesting article and it definitely adds weight to the claim that there's a Mafia presence in Buffalo. No specifics were mentioned from this article, so it would be a stretch to say that this article alone (from a Canadian reporter no less) discredits what the United States federal government has been saying for years, which is that the Buffalo Mafia is dead.

This article also does not mention the Todaros or anybody from the traditional Magaddino/Todaro organized crime family in particular, so this certainly doesn't vindicate The_Rooster or anybody else... yet.

In a nutshell, this article is Canadian reporters and cops making vague references to the mob in "New York State" and "Buffalo" (not necessarily the traditional Todaro crime family). Remember, police that are actually based in New York State have said that the Buffalo mob and the mob in Western NY is dead. So you'd have to be pretty biased to throw all of that out the window and take this to the bank to mean that the Todaro crime family is active and thriving.

Another thing that's important to note is that Canadian law enforcement are definitely years behind the FBI in terms of investigative power and ability. I don't say that to discredit the hard-working Canadian RCMP, but Canada is kind of like where the FBI was in the early '80s in terms of mob-busting. You'll notice that hits happen left right and center, and they often go unsolved, whereas in the States, mobsters live in constant fear of surveillance and most hits in the past 20 years have been solved. The vague language in this article is another indication that the Canadian LE don't really have a clue what's going on. The article doesn't even really answer whose SIDE the NYS mob is supposedly on.

Do I believe there is a Mafia presence in Buffalo? Potentially and probably yes. I've said before that it wouldn't surprise me if some other group took over where the Todaro mob left off. But do I believe that the traditional Buffalo crime family - i.e. the Todaros, Falzones, etc. - are still running things, business as usual? No, I have not seen any evidence of that and I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.

So there we go, Nickle, you've seen "Nicky from Tampa’s response and if he tries to explain this away".
Posted By: Moscone65

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 12:44 AM

Nicky, you said you believe that there is a mafia presence in Buffalo that isn't the original Buffalo LCN. In your opinion, what group do you think is in charge of things there, a group from somewhere else (Ontario, NYC) that has people running things for them in Buffalo, or a newly formed, independent group based out of Buffalo/Niagara area?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 12:53 AM

Thanks Nicky... you’ve got good points of course. I do believe this article, especially when combined with Humphries and others, corroborates what I’ve heard and elevates my case to more than “Street Talk.” I, also, find it interesting that the former officer “Paul Manning” who is quoted as saying “Buffalo will always have a say North of the border” had infiltrated the candian families in his undercover operation that went south in 2006. He must have a reason to say what he did—I.e. Buffalo was strong enough at that point to be able to have a say “up north.” He was definitely in a position to know at that time. And evidently Buffalo was strong enough that he continues to think they are strong enough to have a say on the Mob War going on now and so strong he can’t imagine they will not continue to have have something to say up north right in the future.. Of course— I am just connecting dots and I could have these dots out of order...and they could be painting a different picture.

Here is a link to the article Edwards did on Manning: Cop Betrayed By His Force

BTW I read somewhere that he penetrated the Papalia and Musitano crime families while undercover.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 01:13 AM

Quote

The Buffalo mob isn’t dead, despite some media reports. And they’re playing a role in an ongoing dispute that includes the murder last week of a Hamilton real estate agent. Things will be worse before they get better, as murder of Angelo Musitano drives one side in dispute to clean house.


This is from Pet Edward’s Blog: Pete Edwards: Buffalo Mob Not Dead

I don’t think Edwards can make his position any more clear.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 02:28 AM

I don't think Pete Edwards can make his position any more clear either. And neither can the FBI. One of these people is a Canadian reporter, the other is a squad dedicated to eliminating organized crime in the city of Buffalo.

Originally Posted by Moscone65
Nicky, you said you believe that there is a mafia presence in Buffalo that isn't the original Buffalo LCN. In your opinion, what group do you think is in charge of things there, a group from somewhere else (Ontario, NYC) that has people running things for them in Buffalo, or a newly formed, independent group based out of Buffalo/Niagara area?


It could include the remnants of the Buffalo mob that were picked up by other organized crime outfits from Canada. It's been blatantly obvious that the Canadian Mafia has not suffered nearly as much as most U.S. families. Or it could be remnants of the Buffalo mob picked up by the NYC families. The Bonannos have been proven to have maintained longstanding ties to Canada as of 2017, and have historic ties to the city of Buffalo as well.
But, by 2006, the only members left of the Todaro crime family, as documented by the FBI, were elderly men whose positions seemed to be little more than symbolic. It's very hard to believe that they could have come back from that to not only form a functioning family again, but to exert influence over seemingly powerful, thriving, and violent Canadian groups. It just doesn't make sense for that to be the case.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
I don't think Pete Edwards can make his position any more clear either. And neither can the FBI. One of these people is a Canadian reporter, the other is a squad dedicated to eliminating organized crime in the city of Buffalo.

Originally Posted by Moscone65
Nicky, you said you believe that there is a mafia presence in Buffalo that isn't the original Buffalo LCN. In your opinion, what group do you think is in charge of things there, a group from somewhere else (Ontario, NYC) that has people running things for them in Buffalo, or a newly formed, independent group based out of Buffalo/Niagara area?


It could include the remnants of the Buffalo mob that were picked up by other organized crime outfits from Canada. It's been blatantly obvious that the Canadian Mafia has not suffered nearly as much as most U.S. families. Or it could be remnants of the Buffalo mob picked up by the NYC families. The Bonannos have been proven to have maintained longstanding ties to Canada as of 2017, and have historic ties to the city of Buffalo as well.
But, by 2006, the only members left of the Todaro crime family, as documented by the FBI, were elderly men whose positions seemed to be little more than symbolic. It's very hard to believe that they could have come back from that to not only form a functioning family again, but to exert influence over seemingly powerful, thriving, and violent Canadian groups. It just doesn't make sense for that to be the case.


Nicky I just posted the 2006 FBI chart. The redacted empties are all still alive today-12 years later. They may have been older, but 12 years is a lot of time for a lot of activity to take place. Further, we don’t know for sure, but it is very likely and I have it on good authority that Sonny and Leonard and others were active till close to their recent deaths.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
I don't think Pete Edwards can make his position any more clear either. And neither can the FBI. One of these people is a Canadian reporter, the other is a squad dedicated to eliminating organized crime in the city of Buffalo.

Originally Posted by Moscone65
Nicky, you said you believe that there is a mafia presence in Buffalo that isn't the original Buffalo LCN. In your opinion, what group do you think is in charge of things there, a group from somewhere else (Ontario, NYC) that has people running things for them in Buffalo, or a newly formed, independent group based out of Buffalo/Niagara area?


It could include the remnants of the Buffalo mob that were picked up by other organized crime outfits from Canada. It's been blatantly obvious that the Canadian Mafia has not suffered nearly as much as most U.S. families. Or it could be remnants of the Buffalo mob picked up by the NYC families. The Bonannos have been proven to have maintained longstanding ties to Canada as of 2017, and have historic ties to the city of Buffalo as well.
But, by 2006, the only members left of the Todaro crime family, as documented by the FBI, were elderly men whose positions seemed to be little more than symbolic. It's very hard to believe that they could have come back from that to not only form a functioning family again, but to exert influence over seemingly powerful, thriving, and violent Canadian groups. It just doesn't make sense for that to be the case.


Nicky I just posted the 2006 FBI chart. The redacted empties are all still alive today-12 years later. They may have been older, but 12 years is a lot of time for a lot of activity to take place. Further, we don’t know for sure, but it is very likely and I have it on good authority that Sonny and Leonard and others were active till close to their recent deaths.


Not necessarily. The FBI seldom updates their dead list unless specifically given a proof of death. It's not like they have people hired to go out trawling obituaries.
For instance, member Frank Billiteri, who died in 2010, is not on the list. Neither is Frank "Chicky" Grisante, Vincenzo "Gimi" Luppino, Donald "the Turtle" Panepinto, Frank Papalia, Joseph Pieri Jr., Richard Todaro, or other known members. Thanks to Wiseguy from BH for providing those names of deceased members in another post.

So that argument doesn't work because the FBI is generally very slow in updating their dead lists, and we can safely assume that the general attrition from "45" made members in 1989 down to 23 in 2006 continued, sharply and rapidly. That is, of course, unless those 23 elderly, geriatric old men decided to spontaneously induct a whole lot of young guys with the muscle to exert influence over the historically violent Canadian crews - the same guys that murdered John Papalia and his right hand man back in 1997 to effectively put the kibosh on Buffalo's Canada crew.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 02:03 PM

Nicky,

There has always been one Buffalo crime family.

It's clear who C.A. and L.E. and the media are refeing to.

Based on your theories that we have to believe L.E. and media over all else.

There is one logical conclusion here.

And it's not that there is another Buffalo LCN family.

That is not what they are saying.

As for U.S. law enforcement they are more advanced in U.S. however, not in C.A.

It is a ridiculous statement to say not to listen to C.A. law enforcement about this:

They are the ones inveatagiting this today as we speak.


It takes a BIG MAN to admit when he was wrong.

But the Fat Lady is singing....

There is simply no way you can put Buffalo LCN in same category as the other families that are totally DEFUNCT.

The situation up north has always been a mystery and not much has been known. That remains today but the people in the know who re the best ones to make the call.

Say the old Buffalo LCN family is still active.

How much? Who is calling the shots?
Is it traditional?

Is the power base in Hamilton?

We do not know.

Again an logical person would deduce that the traditional Buffalo LCN today is still an active family.

Their presence severely diminished in Buffalo itself but in some way shape or form mostly in York and Canada and probably guys from the York crew operating in Buffalo below the radar.

The old Buffalo crew a shell of itself some if the guys made big with legit business and due to their age probably aren't too active today.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 10:22 PM

Bensonhurst, if you believe that Canadian law enforcement is more "in the know" than American law enforcement about issues on the AMERICAN side of the border, that's plain illogical. Canadian law enforcement is years behind on Mafia issues in Canada itself, so it makes no sense that they'd know more about the Buffalo Mafia than the Canadian mob.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge, and so law enforcement and the press are naturally the best sources of information. But just because one CANADIAN reporter makes VAGUE and UNSPECIFIC statements about a mob presence in Buffalo - without specifically naming the Todaro crime family - that doesn't mean we should throw away what New York State-based law enforcement and New York State-based reporters have been saying for years.

I'm not sticking my fingers in my eyes and ignoring what this reporter has to say. But if you actually read the article, it becomes pretty obvious that the Canadian L.E. knows very little about the situation other than a broad, vague, and unspecific view of who the "players" are. No names of any Buffalo-based players. No specific naming of the Buffalo crime family or the Todaro crime family or anything. Just broad statements that the victim had connections to mobsters in New York State and Buffalo.
Compare this to the Buffalo-based organized crime squad, whose full-time job it was to rid the Mafia of influence in Buffalo. They led numerous successful prosecutions that dismantled the Buffalo mob's grip on unions, gambling, drugs, and loansharking, and were able to look at the major players still remaining in Buffalo (the overwhelming majority of them being elderly or imprisoned) and say "There's no way the Buffalo mob is recovering from this." And, as of 2017, these organized crime agents still stand by that.

Do you see what I'm saying Bensonhurst? Since Day One you've desperately wanted to believe that the Buffalo Mafia is still active, and you've made all sorts of bizarre theories and opinions. But if you look at both sides, you can see that this recent article - whilst it's interesting and definitely a talking point - does not conclusively prove anything.

If the investigative law enforcement elements in Buffalo step forward and say "Yes the Buffalo LCN is still active" or even if somebody like Dan Herbeck comes forward and says "Sources say the Mafia in Buffalo is still active and is recovering in strength" then I'd be far more inclined to believe the argument.


Also Bensonhurst, it's interesting how you completely ignored what I said about how illogical it is that the Buffalo mob were able to go from being mostly geriatrics in 2006 (with no more union grip, and diminished other rackets) to being strong enough to exert influence over the powerful, wealthy, young, and violent Canadian warring organized crime groups.
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Also Bensonhurst, it's interesting how you completely ignored what I said about how illogical it is that the Buffalo mob were able to go from being mostly geriatrics in 2006 (with no more union grip, and diminished other rackets) to being strong enough to exert influence over the powerful, wealthy, young, and violent Canadian warring organized crime groups.


Why Nicky, for God's sake why? Is this some kind of psychological fetish that I haven't hear of yet?? grin
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 11:36 PM

One of these days I'm going to look out my window and see Nicky holding a sign that says "Proof?", like John Cusack in Say Anything.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/19/18 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Also Bensonhurst, it's interesting how you completely ignored what I said about how illogical it is that the Buffalo mob were able to go from being mostly geriatrics in 2006 (with no more union grip, and diminished other rackets) to being strong enough to exert influence over the powerful, wealthy, young, and violent Canadian warring organized crime groups.


Why Nicky, for God's sake why? Is this some kind of psychological fetish that I haven't hear of yet?? grin


What did I do...?
Am I really getting called out for making a logical point?
Posted By: BillyBrizzi

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/20/18 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

What did I do...?
Am I really getting called out for making a logical point?


In my opinion that is all that you have been doing for months now, at least since the last time I checked but you keep calling these guys out when they don't respond to your logic or facts. So I have a lot of trouble understanding how you can keep this shit up, that's all buddy.. wink
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/20/18 05:45 AM


1) I did NOT take any digs at you.
2) I'm desperate? Really
3) Stop that B.S.
4) You must not have read my post

5) I said there is just too much evidence here for a a logically person to believe that the Buffalo LCN is defunct.

6) Too much explaining away

7) You just keep changing your argument.

8) A short while ago you were right because L.E. and media support your opinion.

9) Now Canada L.E. is not reliable and the Press that is running the story does not know what hey are talking about.

10) C'mon

11) Fino says the union is not cleaned up and Buffalo LCN still has a foot in the door you can't believe Fino.

12) The sons and associates get locked up for doing traditional LCN rackets, they are all independent.

Crazy theories ? there is a new Buffalo LCN family that they are talking about?

Please just because I have a different opinion than you is no need to start with the insults

We can disagree like gentlemen
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/20/18 06:36 PM

Recent Events Lend Credibility to Former Undercover Officer Quoted by Pete Edwards Who Said the Following about The Buffalo Crime Family... Th following is from the " Another Mob Guy Murdered" thread on this site.
Originally Posted by antimafia
^^^^
Paul Manning made a post on a news website today -- you can see his tweet there. Last April, he essentially knew that Ranieri was killed the month before, as was Cudmore.

https://www.exaronews.com/arrest-made-in-2017-shootings-of-angelo-musitano-and-mila-barberi


I'd say this lends credibility to Paul Manning. Remember Peter Edwards lists him as a source in his recent article that states:
Quote
"New York State mob still has considerable influence in the southern Ontario underworld, sources say."
"Paul Manning, a former Hamilton undercover police officer who worked on organized crime investigations. “One thing’s for sure, Buffalo will always have a say north of the border.”"
"Buffalo would have to give approval for high-level killings, sources said, adding that mob leaders there are believed to have turned their backs on one side in the dispute and given tacit approval to the other. “They’re all supposed to be under Buffalo,” one source said of the two feuding Ontario crime factions."
"“The recently deceased had ties to New York,” a former police investigator said.“Buffalo factions of Traditional Organized Crime are not ‘in’ Canada per se, but historically have controlled aspects of Canadian ‘family business’ and do get kickbacks from profits from illicit activity,” Manning said."
"


And to write the following on his blog:
Quote
"The Buffalo mob isn’t dead, despite some media reports. And they’re playing a role in an ongoing dispute that includes the murder last week of a Hamilton real estate agent.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/20/18 08:02 PM

Holy Crap it’s getting good!! From antimafia on “Another Mob Guy Murdered” thread on this site:

Originally Posted by antimafia
A Twitter user -- he and I follow each other -- speculated about the two crime groups that are at odds with each other. See https://twitter.com/donhanzel/status/1042814455715905536.

I think he's arguing that Domenico and Giuseppe Violi lost their backing from individuals in Buffalo because the Violis attended the Bonanno induction ceremony.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/21/18 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

1) I did NOT take any digs at you.
2) I'm desperate? Really
3) Stop that B.S.
4) You must not have read my post

5) I said there is just too much evidence here for a a logically person to believe that the Buffalo LCN is defunct.


No there's not.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

6) Too much explaining away

No there's not.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

7) You just keep changing your argument.

I don't have inside knowledge of what's going in Buffalo. All I know is what's published in the media. So if I change my argument, it's because new evidence has come to light. Duh.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

8) A short while ago you were right because L.E. and media support your opinion.

9) Now Canada L.E. is not reliable and the Press that is running the story does not know what hey are talking about.

10) C'mon


Why are you ignoring the fact that what this Canadian reporter is saying DIRECTLY CONFLICTS with what Buffalo and NYS Media and the American Federal Government have been saying for years?

It's not that "Canada L.E. is not reliable." But American L.E. and Canadian L.E. are saying two conflicting things. And who is in a position to know more about issues in Buffalo? American L.E.

Do you understand this? You must not have read my earlier posts in which I said this.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

11) Fino says the union is not cleaned up and Buffalo LCN still has a foot in the door you can't believe Fino.


Fino was outed as an informer and left the life in 1990, for Christ's sakes. Yes, he's a smart guy and obviously knows how the mob works, but his information is 28 years out of date.
For comparison, that's like asking Sammy Gravano about who's in charge of the Gambino Family. Sure Sammy might have some insights, but how is he going to know any more than the rest of us.
Not to mention that Fino has said the Buffalo Mafia is dead, and then backtracked and claimed it's still alive. And his change in tune seems to coincide with him hyping his upcoming book.

Of course, I have mentioned that point about Fino various times in the past but, again, you must not have read my previous posts.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

12) The sons and associates get locked up for doing traditional LCN rackets, they are all independent.

Which sons and associates have been locked up in recent years, Bensonhurst? Are you talking about the Violis?

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

Crazy theories ? there is a new Buffalo LCN family that they are talking about?

On multiple occasions you've attempted to justify how the Buffalo Mafia could spring back up and regain power despite the fact that the vast majority of evidence goes against that.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

Please just because I have a different opinion than you is no need to start with the insults

We can disagree like gentlemen

And I'm disagreeing... Like a gentleman.
Posted By: CabriniGreen

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/21/18 09:17 AM

@Nickey
I've heard the point that US law enforcement is in a better position to know than Canadian law enforcement... I disagree there..


I think US law enforcement has better TOOLS ( like RICO) and experience to fight OC. But Canada has no RICO, low sentences for murder, ( huge incentive to not talk) and not that many rats, whereas NYC is compromised with Law enforcement. I don't think it's any surprise the rat in Canada, Morena came from the NY families.
( They still don't know who runs the west side, I doubt they know everything happening in Canada, which is where the action is if you are talking Buffalo...)


I think a major point here is that sort of like when Calabria says America, they mean Canada, when you say Buffalo, it might mean more Ontario/ Calabrian than Sicilians in Buffalo. I mean, Luppinos, Violis, Musitanos, all Hamilton based, what would the mob squad in NY have on these guys, if there are no rats?

In one of those articles, they mentioned some of the difficulties in making the case stemmed from having to work with all these different police in different jurisdictions. How many US agents speak Calabrian? Or familiar with the urban areas of Hamilton and Southern Ontario? They had to work with Mexico, the FBI, DEA.......



It takes a lot of coordination to make a case like this, lots of red tape probably.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/21/18 07:15 PM

Nicky,

Never once said the old timers in Buffalo are in power.

I said the opposite.

You are again reading it post.

I am saying I do not believe the family is defunct.

I said probably does not exist in its traditional sense however, most likely similar to families in C.A.
And I also said I thought the power base was probbal6 in C.A.

I said all this 6-7 months ago

Now a lot of people are saying something similar.

That's the crazy theories you are referring to.

Nicky wake up your battling the whole board right now
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/21/18 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Nicky,

Never once said the old timers in Buffalo are in power.

I said the opposite.

But there's no indication that the family had anyone other than "old timers" in 2006. And, as I mentioned before (you must not have read my post), it's childish to believe that the family decided to, all of a sudden, induct a whole lot of new, young members after 2006.


Originally Posted by BensonHURST

You are again reading it post.

Huh?
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I am saying I do not believe the family is defunct.

Believe me, I know you don't believe the family is defunct.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I said probably does not exist in its traditional sense however, most likely similar to families in C.A.
And I also said I thought the power base was probbal6 in C.A.

Well then you obviously don't believe Peter Edwards article, do you? You know, the article you keep referring to as proof that the family is active?
Because that article explictly states that the mysterious, vague "Buffalo mob" is powerful enough to control things in Canada.
“Buffalo factions of Traditional Organized Crime are not ‘in’ Canada per se, but historically have controlled aspects of Canadian ‘family business’ and do get kickbacks from profits from illicit activity,” Manning said.
Buffalo would have to give approval for high-level killings, sources said, adding that mob leaders there are believed to have turned their backs on one side in the dispute and given tacit approval to the other.

“They’re all supposed to be under Buffalo,” one source said of the two feuding Ontario crime factions.


So, Bensonhurst, if you don't believe Peter Edwards article that the Buffalo mob - as in, the mob that is "not 'in' Canada per se, but historically have controlled aspects of Canadian ‘family business’ and do get kickbacks from profits from illicit activity" - is controlling things in Canada, then it appears as if the one shred of vague media info that backed up the assertion that the Buffalo mob is still alive is no longer on your side.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I said all this 6-7 months ago

Now a lot of people are saying something similar.

That's the crazy theories you are referring to.

Here was one of your theories:
Originally Posted by BensonHURST

My theory is that Buffalo was probably ready to flat line like some other families.
And the L.E. wrote them off

Not realizing that :

1) They were much much bigger and stronger in their day then say a C.A. family.
2) Under estimating the potential in the Canada crew. To possibly step up and lead.

Even with them taking a HUGE hit going down from say 100 active guys to 30
They still can be viable at 30.

With the smaller families at their height they were at 40-50 so now they only have 0-5 members left so other families came in and they became like a crew of a bigger family.

I also think it possible they were lacking leadership after Todaro retired.

I also think that maybe the leadership emerged from the Canada crew.

Maybe they revived the family however, the power has shifted to Canada

Maybe until Canada stepped up the remnants were working with other families
however, that has now changed.

So that is my theory
It is speculation

However, it would make both Nicky and Rooster, Giacomo and Nickel Correct.

1) Nicky was right that there has not been anything verified in the news you cannot deny that,
2) Nicky was right that L.E. and other sources declared them dead.

3) Rooster, Giacomo and Nickel that are from the area are telling the truth about what they are seeing and hearing basically LCN guys doing LCN things regularly

4) The new indictment and arrests point to possibly a re-emergence of the family.

Again, not what they were at their height in membership and power also not completely dead, appears they are active and rebuilding at the moment.

What do you say guys
???????


Now, you might've felt real proud saying that theory because The_Rooster commended that for being an incredibly well thought-out theory, despite the fact that Rooster knew damn well that the Buffalo mob has not had 100 members in a long ass time. I told you that and, surprise surprise, you ignored it.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

Nicky wake up your battling the whole board right now


Yeah, no I'm not. Since day one, you've been going on about how you've been trying to be neutral about this whole Buffalo debate, how you're trying to resolve both sides, but it's evident from the rudeness back in the Bufalino thread that you've wanted desperately to believe the Buffalo mob is active since day one, even before this Peter Edwards article came out.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/21/18 11:08 PM

Also Bensonhurst, you are still continuing to ignore this point I have made time and time again:

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Why are you ignoring the fact that what this Canadian reporter is saying DIRECTLY CONFLICTS with what Buffalo and NYS Media and the American Federal Government have been saying for years?

It's not that "Canada L.E. is not reliable." But American L.E. and Canadian L.E. are saying two conflicting things. And who is in a position to know more about issues in Buffalo? American L.E.




Also, Bensonhurst, in a direct response to one of your statements, I asked this:
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Which sons and associates have been locked up in recent years, Bensonhurst? Are you talking about the Violis?


And also you did not reply to the whole point about Ron Fino I made - i.e., asking him about the Buffalo mob today would be akin to asking Sammy Gravano about the Gambino mob today since they both flipped in 1990.
Posted By: jace

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 01:50 AM

I looked at the birth days of the Buffalo Family members chart from 2006 (previous page) Look at the birth dates. 1910, 1926, almost all born before 1930. I don't see them being that active, if any are even alive.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by jace
I looked at the birth days of the Buffalo Family members chart from 2006 (previous page) Look at the birth dates. 1910, 1926, almost all born before 1930. I don't see them being that active, if any are even alive.


Definitely not. They had 45 members by 1990, and that was before the federal government hastened their demise with RICO prosecutions and union oversight. 45 members was a huge downturn from decades before, implying that they weren't even keeping up with new inductions back in the 1980s, let alone the 2000s.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Also Bensonhurst, you are still continuing to ignore this point I have made time and time again:

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Why are you ignoring the fact that what this Canadian reporter is saying DIRECTLY CONFLICTS with what Buffalo and NYS Media and the American Federal Government have been saying for years?

It's not that "Canada L.E. is not reliable." But American L.E. and Canadian L.E. are saying two conflicting things. And who is in a position to know more about issues in Buffalo? American L.E.




Also, Bensonhurst, in a direct response to one of your statements, I asked this:
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Which sons and associates have been locked up in recent years, Bensonhurst? Are you talking about the Violis?


And also you did not reply to the whole point about Ron Fino I made - i.e., asking him about the Buffalo mob today would be akin to asking Sammy Gravano about the Gambino mob today since they both flipped in 1990.


Nikel said everything that had to he said about Fino.

Early on you listed Fino as a credible source than when someone pointed that Fino said they were active.

You flipped the script and said he was outted as a liar.

Then he had no way of knowing what's going on today.

You see you change your story.

How is he any less credible than any other cooperating witness they are all liars
????

Because what he says does not align with ur opinion nobody should listen to him??

You see what you do?

Yet if Fino would have just said they were dead than he would be the most reliable source because he was high up in the union right?

So he should know what was happening when he first flipped and shortly thereafter

Thats what you do.

You change ur story

You are explaining Fino away
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 06:57 AM

I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, Bensonhurst, but this is a bold faced lie and I'm sure you know it.

Back in April of this year, myself, Rooster, and others debated Fino. There were articles, and even his own book, from as late as 2012 in which he stated he believed the family was still active. But, due to his collaboration and statements in Dan Herbeck's 2017 article, it became obvious that - by 2017 - he viewed the Buffalo mob as having only mere remnants left. Remnants meaning, by the tone of the article, that there was barely anything, if anything at all, in terms of structure or hierarchy or whatever.

So, back in April, Fino seemed to agree with my summation that the Buffalo mob was dead in terms of structure, rackets, and a viable criminal organization.
Notice that I still questioned his validity. Specifically, on April 9, 2018, I said:
"Ron Fino flipped in 1989. After that he really has no inside knowledge on the union. Not saying that throws away his credibility, but just bear that in mind when reading his information."

Later on is when Fino began saying the Buffalo mob was still active. AFTER he said there was nothing left other than remnants. And, when that information came out, I continued to say what I've been saying this whole time - Fino is an educated guy, he knows a lot about the Mafia in Buffalo; but in terms of "inside knowledge" past 1989/1990, he really has no leg to stand on.


In closing, Bensonhurst, quit talking out of your ass.


So, back to my still unanswered questions. I should note by now that this is the third time I've asked these two things.

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Why are you ignoring the fact that what this Canadian reporter is saying DIRECTLY CONFLICTS with what Buffalo and NYS Media and the American Federal Government have been saying for years?

It's not that "Canada L.E. is not reliable." But American L.E. and Canadian L.E. are saying two conflicting things. And who is in a position to know more about issues in Buffalo? American L.E.


Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Which sons and associates have been locked up in recent years, Bensonhurst? Are you talking about the Violis?
Posted By: streetbossliborio

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/09/buffalo-mob-may-be-dead-but-it-is-not.html

Quote
If the resulting 2006 FBI chart was correct, the Buffalo crew appeared to be a little top heavy. A boss and underboss, a consigliere, and four capos are shown to be presiding over a crew of just 16 �soldiers,� made guys who presumably do most of the heavy lifting.


Chart founded on the web

Boss: ???
Underboss:Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
Consigliere:Victor Sansanese,consigliere from 2012

Captain: Frank "Butchie Bifocals" BiFulco b.1945

Soldiers:

Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi b.1942
Robert "Bobby" Colao (not sure)
Frank Falzone b.1950
Peter Gerace b.1927 maybe retired
Frank Grisanti
Samuel "Sam" Lagattuta Jr.
Robert "Bobby" Panaro Jr.
John A. Pieri
Joseph R. Pieri Jr.
Victor Sansanese b.1945
Richard Todaro
Louis Tavano b.1941
Joseph Todaro Jr. b.1947

Captain: Russell "Russ" Carcone b.1954 Utica

Soldiers:

Philip "Phil" Corelli b.1963
James "Jimmy" Feliciano b.1977
Frank Ferraro b.1943
Frank Marino b.1940

Captain: Joseph "Joey Paps" Pugliese Canada

Soldiers:

Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro
Corrado"Cookie" Caruso
Paul "Paulie" Cipolla
Ralph Criminisi
Bruno "Bronzie" DePaolo b.1967
Joseph "Joey Dips" DePaolo
Michael "Mike" DePaolo
Daniel "Danny" Gasbarinni
Dominic Italiano
Vincent "Vinny" Lombardo
Frank "Frankie" Papalia b.1930
Rocco Papalia b.1935
Anthony "Tony" Pugliese



Furio, here is the FBI's actual 2006 Buffalo Crime Family chart that you referenced at the beginning of this thread. Living members have been redacted (blanked) for the following reasons: (b)(6) & (b)(7)(C):

[Linked Image]

(b)(6) personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(b)(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information ( A ) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, ( B ) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, ( D ) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, ( E ) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or ( F ) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;


Can someone post the full chart?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by streetbossliborio
Originally Posted by NickleCity


Furio, here is the FBI's actual 2006 Buffalo Crime Family chart that you referenced at the beginning of this thread. Living members have been redacted (blanked) for the following reasons: (b)(6) & (b)(7)(C):

[Linked Image]

(b)(6) personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(b)(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information ( A ) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, ( B ) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, ( D ) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, ( E ) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or ( F ) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;


Can someone post the full chart?

This is the 2006 chart obtained by FOIA request about a month ago. Empties are redactions by the FBI because these members are still alive. Wish they would have sent me the full chart.
Posted By: Nitro

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 06:06 PM

Only still alive ? Or maybe without criminal record too ?

"
(b)(6) personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(b)(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information ( A ) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, ( B ) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, ( D ) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, ( E ) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or ( F ) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;"

Normally FBI much more revealing with Mob names or am I wrong?
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity

This is the 2006 chart obtained by FOIA request about a month ago. Empties are redactions by the FBI because these members are still alive. Wish they would have sent me the full chart.


No, not because they are still alive - I told you this Nickle. The FBI more than likely does not know they are dead. You can have a look at their "Dead List" if you want, they don't update it unless (generally) someone notifies the FBI that the person is dead and provides proof with an obituary or something.
Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 06:35 PM

Buffalo is as dead as Stevie Wonder. There's nothing there. NOTHING! I wish this thread was closed.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity

This is the 2006 chart obtained by FOIA request about a month ago. Empties are redactions by the FBI because these members are still alive. Wish they would have sent me the full chart.


No, not because they are still alive - I told you this Nickle. The FBI more than likely does not know they are dead. You can have a look at their "Dead List" if you want, they don't update it unless (generally) someone notifies the FBI that the person is dead and provides proof with an obituary or something.


Just going on what the FBI indicated in the material... Not trying to flame you Nicky.
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by ralphie_cifaretto
Buffalo is as dead as Stevie Wonder. There's nothing there. NOTHING! I wish this thread was closed.



Stevie Wonder is dead????? eek

Regarding this thread - it's on thin ice. Nicky uses it to flame anyone who doesn't like the way he crosses his t's and dots his i's. He just doesn't know how to act with adults.
Posted By: Nitro

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity

This is the 2006 chart obtained by FOIA request about a month ago. Empties are redactions by the FBI because these members are still alive. Wish they would have sent me the full chart.


No, not because they are still alive - I told you this Nickle. The FBI more than likely does not know they are dead. You can have a look at their "Dead List" if you want, they don't update it unless (generally) someone notifies the FBI that the person is dead and provides proof with an obituary or something.


Just going on what the FBI indicated in the material... Not trying to flame you Nicky.


Make not much sense to me. If the FBI does not know if they are dead, it would be rather unbelievable that they overlook the OC scene.

FBI tolds b6&b7c as reason.

" ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy," Sounds like this guys had no RICO or Mob conviction for me.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by SC
Originally Posted by ralphie_cifaretto
Buffalo is as dead as Stevie Wonder. There's nothing there. NOTHING! I wish this thread was closed.



Stevie Wonder is dead????? eek

Regarding this thread - it's on thin ice. Nicky uses it to flame anyone who doesn't like the way he crosses his t's and dots his i's. He just doesn't know how to act with adults.



So asking Giacomo for "reports" he claims to have is offensive.
And asking Bensonhurst for a proper response to questions is offensive.
Ok, sure.
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
So asking Giacomo for "reports" he claims to have is offensive.
And asking Bensonhurst for a proper response to questions is offensive.
Ok, sure.



Oh, stop trying to appear so innocent. Everyone knows your sole purpose on posting here is to be a disruptive influence and to flame others.
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Nitro
Only still alive ? Or maybe without criminal record too ?

"
(b)(6) personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(b)(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information ( A ) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, ( B ) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, ( C ) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, ( D ) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, ( E ) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or ( F ) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;"

Normally FBI much more revealing with Mob names or am I wrong?


Thanks, I forgot to point that part out as well...
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by SC
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
So asking Giacomo for "reports" he claims to have is offensive.
And asking Bensonhurst for a proper response to questions is offensive.
Ok, sure.



Oh, stop trying to appear so innocent. Everyone knows your sole purpose on posting here is to be a disruptive influence and to flame others.



Read through my posts and find me an occasion where I ever made up bullshit, made up facts, or said explanations that weren't reasonable or fair. You do that and I promise I'll sit down and concede I'm wrong.
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 11:01 PM

Stevie Wonder's still living...just enough... for the city...
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/22/18 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Stevie Wonder's still living...just enough... for the city...

😝 😂
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 03:41 AM

Nicky,

All I stated from day one was my opinion.

I am not exactly sure how I can be wrong since its all mine.

I am not sure how or why you think your opinion is the only right one.

I come here for my own reasons to me it is interesting to interact with other people from other parts of the country that grew up all around this like I did.

I enjoy hearing the stories.

It is also interesting how many guys in here are able to do such thorough research and find out all these facts WIRE TAPS, COPIES OF INDICTMENTS, FOIA
really interesting.

I have no desire to argue with you it's really stupid

I have to tell you it's like you try to bully people who have a different opinion and make them feel stupid.

Maybe you don't realize it???

I think it really turns people off and thats why they complain.

I think your perspective is very valid based on facts and I think looking at different sides makes the thread interesting.

You get to look at both sides and see which one makes sense to you.

I tried going back and forth with you with respect but you just want to make it a mud slinging contest.

I even point blank asked you to be a gentleman about disagreeing.

I am done going back and forth with you about this.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Nicky,

All I stated from day one was my opinion.

I am not exactly sure how I can be wrong since its all mine.

Because your opinion is based on facts which are plain wrong. For instance, you noted how if the Buffalo Mafia took a HUGE hit going down from say 100 active guys to 30
They still can be viable at 30.
Despite the fact that they had only 45 members in 1990 - and that was before the "big hit" - i.e. RICO, federal investigations, union oversight.

You see, that 45 members thing is not "opinion" - it is documented fact published in the Buffalo News in 1990.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I am not sure how or why you think your opinion is the only right one.

Well, for one, my opinion is based on fact - dare I say it, yours is not.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I come here for my own reasons to me it is interesting to interact with other people from other parts of the country that grew up all around this like I did.

I enjoy hearing the stories.

It is also interesting how many guys in here are able to do such thorough research and find out all these facts WIRE TAPS, COPIES OF INDICTMENTS, FOIA
really interesting.

I have no desire to argue with you it's really stupid

I have to tell you it's like you try to bully people who have a different opinion and make them feel stupid.

If you remember correctly, you were the one who started being rude to me in the Bufalino thread - "little girl" insults and similar instances of you simply brushing off any actual facts.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

Maybe you don't realize it???

I think it really turns people off and thats why they complain.

I think your perspective is very valid based on facts and I think looking at different sides makes the thread interesting.

You get to look at both sides and see which one makes sense to you.

I tried going back and forth with you with respect but you just want to make it a mud slinging contest.

No, you didn't.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I even point blank asked you to be a gentleman about disagreeing.

I am done going back and forth with you about this.


You can disagree like gentleman and still discuss conflicting opinions. But in your case, my complaint with you is that you tend to state your theories about how the Buffalo Mafia could still be active, and these theories are often based on inaccuracies (i.e. the 100 members thing) or have enormous holes in them. And when somebody calls you out on your theories, you get upset because "It's just my opinion/theory, don't belittle me."
So what am I supposed to do? You're completely OK to have an opinion, but if your opinion is based on inaccuracies or enormous holes, you can't expect people not to correct you or call you out. Because otherwise people that don't know much about the Buffalo Mafia could look at that opinion/theory of yours and say "Wow, yeah, that's plausible, I'm sure that's the case" even though the theory itself isn't valid for various reasons.

When you enter a debate with a "theory" or "opinion" of what's really the case, you need to be open to the fact that people will disagree with your opinion. And in some cases you can defend your stance, but in other cases you just have to say "Ok, you're right, my theory can't be valid because of ____." If you think you're being bullied because somebody says your theory is wrong, then that's more of a reflection of you than it is of anyone else.
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Read through my posts and find me an occasion where I ever made up bullshit, made up facts, or said explanations that weren't reasonable or fair. You do that and I promise I'll sit down and concede I'm wrong.



It's not your facts. But God forbid someone says something contrary to what you say. You become a major pain-in-the-ass, crybaby who ends up disrupting the boards while flaming others.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 07:38 AM

Nicky,

Someone calls me out?
You...

Me get upset
Really?

OMG... Your article that you base everything off of stated in its hey day Buffalo had 200 made men.

I took that # cut it in 1/2.

So it's 1,000,000 % opposite of what you are saying.

+ if you read the whole post and the ones before and after, the point I was making was that whatever the # was of made men.

Both sides of the argument can technically be correct.

If a family once had 200 Or 100 made members and now they have only 20-30

L.E. Or whomever can say the family is DEAD compared to what it used to be.

Get it 100-200 down to 20-30
DEAD

On the other hand the family could still also be intact
On a much smaller scale.

Get it

Dead from where it was
But alive

Understand?
Both sides can be correct.

That's my crazy theory and I stated numerous times that the traditional rackets in Buffalo are probably dead or severely diminished.

That I thought the drug pipeline was still viable that it was carves out before prohibition and Buffalo was/is the gate keeper.

I don't see them just giving that up.

And that family probably does not have a formal LCNn structure that they probably adapted something similar to the Rizzuto's in strucrure.

And that the power base would probably reside in Canada.

Those are all my crazy theories

All the while admitting I know nothing about Canada, except for what I hear from here and different news articles that I read.that you posted.

I said what I had to say

It's embarrising I can't believe I let myself get baited into this.

Never again
My first and last time.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Nicky,

Someone calls me out?
You...

Me get upset
Really?

OMG... Your article that you base everything off of stated in its hey day Buffalo had 200 made men.

I took that # cut it in 1/2.

So it's 1,000,000 % opposite of what you are saying.

+ if you read the whole post and the ones before and after, the point I was making was that whatever the # was of made men.

Both sides of the argument can technically be correct.

If a family once had 200 Or 100 made members and now they have only 20-30

L.E. Or whomever can say the family is DEAD compared to what it used to be.

Get it 100-200 down to 20-30
DEAD

But you said something along the lines of - "say the family has 100 men and they take a huge hit, they still have 30-40 men" - i'm paraphrasing, but I'll find the original quote if you want.
That implies that the family had 100 men at some point in recent history. Which is not true. By 1990 - before the big RICO trials, union oversight, racket busting - the family had 45 members. You see what I'm getting at? Natural attrition had already, by 1990, diminished the family to a quarter the size of what it allegedly was in its heydey. So you've got the fact that natural attrition shows no sign of slowing down, AS WELL as enormous racketeering trials, rackets dismantling, warfare in Canada, union oversight, etc. to hasten the family's demise so much that by 1998, the family was - by the feds' own admission - very near death, with a very weak pulse, little sign of recovery, etc. And by 2006, the chart shows that their members had decreased more, and the Niagara Falls article explains that the "chart" itself is very disorganized. Big admin, lots of capos, but very few actual soldiers.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

On the other hand the family could still also be intact
On a much smaller scale.

Get it

Dead from where it was
But alive

Understand?
Both sides can be correct.

Here's the thing. If the family went from 45 made men in 1990 to, say, 30 men by today, that would imply that the family has - for the most part - gone AGAINST the years of natural attrition from 1960-1990. Which makes no sense when you look at how disastrous the 1990s were for the family.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

That's my crazy theory and I stated numerous times that the traditional rackets in Buffalo are probably dead or severely diminished.

That I thought the drug pipeline was still viable that it was carves out before prohibition and Buffalo was/is the gate keeper.

I don't see them just giving that up.

In my humble opinion, I don't see how a group of geriatric gangsters with (most likely) little, if any, "muscle" behind them anymore could feasibly hold on to such a pipeline and protect it against outside forces. North of the border we see that the Buffalo gangsters didn't really stand a chance against the smaller, but more violent, Musitano clan. So how do you propose they could hold on to such a pipeline? That's a legitimate question - no flaming, no BS.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

And that family probably does not have a formal LCNn structure that they probably adapted something similar to the Rizzuto's in strucrure.

And that the power base would probably reside in Canada.

Those are all my crazy theories

For you to say that the power base resides in Canada would be disregarding the recent article which you are putting so much stock into. The recent article which specifically names Buffalo - the city Mafia, not the "Buffalo crime family that is not based in Buffalo" - as supposedly being in control of things going on in Canada.
So if you believe the power base resides in Canada, I don't see how you can use the recent Peter Edwards article as supporting your point.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

All the while admitting I know nothing about Canada, except for what I hear from here and different news articles that I read.that you posted.

I said what I had to say

It's embarrising I can't believe I let myself get baited into this.

Never again
My first and last time.


Thanks Bensonhurst. I haven't been aggravating you or "flaming" you - at least in this post. I hope you see what I've written and reply accordingly.

By the way, here are some burning questions of mine that remain unanswered.
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Why are you ignoring the fact that what this Canadian reporter is saying DIRECTLY CONFLICTS with what Buffalo and NYS Media and the American Federal Government have been saying for years?

It's not that "Canada L.E. is not reliable." But American L.E. and Canadian L.E. are saying two conflicting things. And who is in a position to know more about issues in Buffalo? American L.E.


Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

Which sons and associates have been locked up in recent years, Bensonhurst? Are you talking about the Violis?
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 01:25 PM

I just explained where and how the 100 made men came from.

It is from the article about Buffalo is all but dead.
Why are you NOT accepting my answer?

See what's happening here you don't like my answer so ur not accepting it.

This is what S.C. is talking about flaming.
I think.

--_______________________________________________
The pipeline.....

This is new?

So another family is in control of Buffalo in Buffalo?

You never said that before?

Why the change of heart?

----------------------!!!!! See what I mean changing ur story?

What you have been saying and L.E. and media is that there are remnants still in place.

So you now don't believe the remnants are In place?

You believe another family kicked what was left of Buffalo out because they were too weak and
Took control of the pipeline and territory
????

That's what r saying
?

That's a new one
?

This sounds like a theory?

You just said your opinions are based on fact like L.E.and and reputable media.

Show me?

See my problem here your not consistent with your last few posts.

Facts vs Theory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not really understanding your question?

About what L.E. here conflicting with Canada.

Let me remind you that the Buffalo field office was conflicting with the field office that that was involved in the Violi bust.

I don't remember which it is but this was spoken about on the forum in detail.

One FBI and 2 different positions on Buffalo
_____________________________________________

I can go on about the indictments but I tho k enough is enough

I think this is aggravating other members so I don't want to continue

Nikel knows way more than me.

He can certainly give you the info you want
Posted By: thebigfella

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 01:59 PM

There's no way an lcn outfit will let a Canadian be boss and be stationed in Canada, all of the Canadian names that's mentioned lives in Canada to my knowledge and not buffalo. Articles have said the traditional lcn rackets is in Buffalo. There was a guy that went by the name "the arm" that was on these boards a few years ago and he argued that not only the buffalo family existed but they was thriving, and people bashed him. I personally believe that the buffalo family exist with a traditional hierarchy, until I'm proven wrong that's what I will stick to, no debate!
Posted By: TheKillingJoke

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 02:44 PM

From what I can remember "The Arm" was mostly bashed because he claimed he used to be involved in mob wars as a street soldier and most of his stories came across as if he was using the board to play an RPG game.
Posted By: thebigfella

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 03:56 PM

I never read those posts, the posts I read was when he was breaking down the buffalo family and names, I remember he said todaro grandson or something have alot of influence in that area, and I wouldn't be surprised if mob actually soldiers posted on these boards
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 04:37 PM

I just read an article that the whole Ontario/Hamilton was under Buffalo, than the Mustiano's came into town and aligned with the Rizzuto's.

The Rizzuto's, had a beef with the two Hamilton family because they borrowed $7MM from him and didn't pay him back.

That was the reason Papilia and Barillo got whacked.

After that the factions were never than taken over by Rizzuto so they were left alone.

They must have made peace with the Mustiano's for as long as they had to.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I just explained where and how the 100 made men came from.

It is from the article about Buffalo is all but dead.
Why are you NOT accepting my answer?

Because it's not accurate. They havent had 100 soldiers at any point in the recent past.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

See what's happening here you don't like my answer so ur not accepting it.

And vice versa.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

This is what S.C. is talking about flaming.
I think.

You've lost me.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

--_______________________________________________
The pipeline.....

This is new?

So another family is in control of Buffalo in Buffalo?
You never said that before?


Why the change of heart?

----------------------!!!!! See what I mean changing ur story?

What you have been saying and L.E. and media is that there are remnants still in place.

So you now don't believe the remnants are In place?

You believe another family kicked what was left of Buffalo out because they were too weak and
Took control of the pipeline and territory
????

That's what r saying
?

That's a new one
?

This sounds like a theory?

I didn't say that at all. Read the post again. Stop flaming.

There are most likely still various remnants in place. I have said this before. I have never said anything otherwise. Stop lying, and stop flaming.

But the pipeline is a different story. I simply asked - without flaming - how a small group of elderly men could feasibly hold and protect a multimillion-dollar drug pipeline. Other organized crime groups, Italian or otherwise, would inevitably want a piece of that pie. And there are far more violent organized crime groups elsewhere in Canada and even in NYS.

So stop flaming and putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

You just said your opinions are based on fact like L.E.and and reputable media.

Show me?

See my problem here your not consistent with your last few posts.

Facts vs Theory

Not sure what you're asking me here? It seems you're just trying to incite an argument. What, in particular, do you want me to "prove?" I've never lied or misrepresented information, or made up bullshit like a variety of posters in this Buffalo argument.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I am not really understanding your question?

About what L.E. here conflicting with Canada.

Let me remind you that the Buffalo field office was conflicting with the field office that that was involved in the Violi bust.

I don't remember which it is but this was spoken about on the forum in detail.

One FBI and 2 different positions on Buffalo
_____________________________________________

What? If you could find that thread you are talking about that would be great because I can't really make sense of this post.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I can go on about the indictments but I tho k enough is enough

I think this is aggravating other members so I don't want to continue

Nikel knows way more than me.

He can certainly give you the info you want



But you're the one spouting the information. You're also the one with the theories, which you should be able to back up if questioned. You're the one misrepresenting and calling out the things I'm saying. You should be able to back up YOUR point, as opposed to putting it on another poster.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by thebigfella
There's no way an lcn outfit will let a Canadian be boss and be stationed in Canada, all of the Canadian names that's mentioned lives in Canada to my knowledge and not buffalo. Articles have said the traditional lcn rackets is in Buffalo. There was a guy that went by the name "the arm" that was on these boards a few years ago and he argued that not only the buffalo family existed but they was thriving, and people bashed him. I personally believe that the buffalo family exist with a traditional hierarchy, until I'm proven wrong that's what I will stick to, no debate!


So you're M.O. is essentially: "I have an opinion that is not based on any conclusive evidence, and it's up to YOU to prove me wrong!"
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/23/18 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by BensonHURST


.

I am not really understanding your question?

About what L.E. here conflicting with Canada.

Let me remind you that the Buffalo field office was conflicting with the field office that that was involved in the Violi bust.

I don't remember which it is but this was spoken about on the forum in detail.

One FBI and 2 different positions on Buffalo
_____________________________________________

What? If you could find that thread you are talking about that would be great because I can't really make sense of this post.


He is talking about the US Attorney’s Office Eastern District (And associated FBI) that first reported members of the Todaro Crime Family were arrested in the Nov. Violi/Bonnano arrests in Canada. Here is the link: US Attorney Eastern District
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by BensonHURST


.

I am not really understanding your question?

About what L.E. here conflicting with Canada.

Let me remind you that the Buffalo field office was conflicting with the field office that that was involved in the Violi bust.

I don't remember which it is but this was spoken about on the forum in detail.

One FBI and 2 different positions on Buffalo
_____________________________________________

What? If you could find that thread you are talking about that would be great because I can't really make sense of this post.


He is talking about the US Attorney’s Office Eastern District (And associated FBI) that first reported members of the Todaro Crime Family were arrested in the Nov. Violi/Bonnano arrests in Canada. Here is the link: US Attorney Eastern District


Where is the "L.E. here conflicting with Canada"?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 12:55 AM

In Nov.. 2018 US Attorney Easter District (and FBI field office associate with them) contradicted what Buffalo Field Office told Herbeck in March 2018 article.
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
In Nov.. 2018 US Attorney Easter District (and FBI field office associate with them) contradicted what Buffalo Field Office told Herbeck in March 2018 article.


You mean 2017?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity
In Nov.. 2018 US Attorney Easter District (and FBI field office associate with them) contradicted what Buffalo Field Office told Herbeck in March 2018 article.


You mean 2017?

Yes, my bad...
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity
In Nov.. 2018 US Attorney Easter District (and FBI field office associate with them) contradicted what Buffalo Field Office told Herbeck in March 2018 article.


You mean 2017?

Yes, my bad...

What exactly contradicts from the two statements?
Posted By: NickleCity

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

What exactly contradicts from the two statements?


Cohen at Buffalo Field office in March 2017:
Quote

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” FBI Special Agent Adam Cohen told the Buffalo News last year.

“But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses.”


US Attorney Eastern District in November 2017:

Quote
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.


I would say that is a significant contradiction being both statements were made in the same year.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 01:50 AM

This is from the article that YOU POSTED:

The 1960s may have been the peak of the Mafia influence in the Buffalo region. As many as 200 “made men” – officially sanctioned mob members – ran criminal operations in Buffalo and Niagara Falls during that decade, all answering to Magaddino, Coppola said.

Again, I took the article that you posted and said if they had 100 at one time (I gave it haircut of 1/2 however, you still say that I am exaggerating)
And they now have 30

They would be considered dead compared to their peak

I was making a point

You understand

See what I did not say is they have 30

I.E. in Bensonhurst today mafia activity is dead today compared to what it was
Dead meaning there used a social club every few blocks on major avenues

Now they are underground very few and far in between

I am not comparing Buffalo to Bensonhurst

I do not know how to break this down to you
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not the one who accused you of flaming

I was trying to help you out
I thought maybe you did not realize what you are doing

Maybe you are a young kid and as S.C. was saying you just dont know how to interact with adults

I was trying to point out what you were doing that caught the eye of the admin of this board.
Posted By: thebigfella

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 02:15 AM

Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying
Posted By: thebigfella

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 02:39 AM

There's no proof that it don't follow traditional lcn rules, and there's no reason for me to think that it has stopped doing as such
Posted By: NickyfromTampa

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa

What exactly contradicts from the two statements?


Cohen at Buffalo Field office in March 2017:
Quote

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” FBI Special Agent Adam Cohen told the Buffalo News last year.

“But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses.”


US Attorney Eastern District in November 2017:

Quote
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.


I would say that is a significant contradiction being both statements were made in the same year.


The important thing here is that the members of the Todaro crime family were arrested exclusively in Canada. Whereas Buffalo FBI Special Agent Adam Cohen was almost definitely talking about the city of Buffalo and surrounding areas. Unless whatever's going on in Canada is affecting organized crime in Buffalo, then the Buffalo Field Office shouldn't really be expected to know what's going on north of the border.
So it's not really a contradiction when you look at the context of the article, which is about the Mafia in WESTERN NEW YORK as opposed to the Todaro crime family's operations in other countries.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
This is from the article that YOU POSTED:

The 1960s may have been the peak of the Mafia influence in the Buffalo region. As many as 200 “made men” – officially sanctioned mob members – ran criminal operations in Buffalo and Niagara Falls during that decade, all answering to Magaddino, Coppola said.

Again, I took the article that you posted and said if they had 100 at one time (I gave it haircut of 1/2 however, you still say that I am exaggerating)
And they now have 30

They would be considered dead compared to their peak

I was making a point

You understand

See what I did not say is they have 30

Fair enough. I thought you were inferencing that the Buffalo Mafia went from 100 made men to 30. That's my bad.


Originally Posted by BensonHURST

I.E. in Bensonhurst today mafia activity is dead today compared to what it was
Dead meaning there used a social club every few blocks on major avenues

Now they are underground very few and far in between

I am not comparing Buffalo to Bensonhurst

I do not know how to break this down to you
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice how nobody is saying the Mafia in Bensonhurst is positively "dead?"
Originally Posted by BensonHURST


I am not the one who accused you of flaming

I was trying to help you out
I thought maybe you did not realize what you are doing

Maybe you are a young kid and as S.C. was saying you just dont know how to interact with adults

I was trying to point out what you were doing that caught the eye of the admin of this board.



Not sure what you mean by "trying to help you out." And I'm not sure how your comment that I'm "maybe a young kid" is anything more than pointless, aggravating flaming.
What's the point of that last section of your post? Saying I'm maybe a little kid who doesn't know how to interact with adults. What a ridiculous, "flaming," passive-aggressive thing to say. Let's see if SC addresses this.
Posted By: SC

Re: Buffalo Family in 2016 - 09/24/18 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Not sure what you mean by "trying to help you out." And I'm not sure how your comment that I'm "maybe a young kid" is anything more than pointless, aggravating flaming.
What's the point of that last section of your post? Saying I'm maybe a little kid who doesn't know how to interact with adults. What a ridiculous, "flaming," passive-aggressive thing to say. Let's see if SC addresses this.


Sure will address this. First, I'm locking this thread. It has outlived its usefulness and remains only as a tinder box here on the GBB. And while I'm not blind to some unkind words to you, Nicky, I firmly believe you are at fault for them. You and your arrogant, crybaby way that brought those (unkind) words about. You are an extremely disruptive force here and are quickly becoming one on his way out. Just learn to get along with others whom you disagree. Personally I don't have think you can but I have hope for you.
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