Why the Outfit is considerated more viable than ..

Detroit ?

The Chicago outfit is considerated more active than the detroit family even if both families had 30 active made men and stay in cities where the italians are very few and the recruitment pool is becoming more and more little.
Both of them always had non italians in top position and had an alliance with bikers (the Outfit with the outlaws mc and in Detroit Bommarito is the link with bikers).
Most could say the family secret trial, the Zizzo murder and the Pat Marcy case show that the Outfit is still very active.

Apart this, there are other differences?

The Pat Marcy case is old as shit.

I guess confusion would come if you choose to believe each has 30 active made guys. Not sure where you got that, furio. About a decade ago the feds had Chicago at 25-30 total members, as well as a little over 100 associates. A few members have died since then. 15-20 years ago Detroit was said to have 23-30 total members. As posted in the other thread, likely several of those have died since then. Though we can't know unless the feds release more recent figures for Detroit, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the amount of members remaining in Chicago is twice that of Detroit at this point.

Anyway, there has been considerably more discernible activity in Chicago, as seen through cases and news reports, than in Detroit since 2000. This despite the Outfit being said to be quite insular and disciplined. I guess they haven't figured out Detroit's secret either.

Ivy I read the charts in the blackhand forum.
I cited the Pat Marcy case for say that chicago had maybe a little political influenced . So the Outfit was more active than detroit ?

Of course Chicago is more active. Also, Chicago's got a big Italian population. More than half a million Italians in the metro area. They also got more than 30 members. They are still recruiting. How many of the Chicago indictments from the past 5 years contained names from the CCC list from early 2000? Or any FBI list??? Bobby Pannozo? Paul Koroluk? Mickey Davis?? Paul Carapelli??? None!!! So don't listen to people who claim the Outfit is on its last legs. They definitely changed tactics but Solly D is no DiFronzo. He is recruiting and trying to make them stronger.

JJChicago I don't know much on the Outfit. So Difronzo stop making people while Sally D made new member ?

Do you have info on who was made in the 2000s ?

Since 2000 Outfit have had the Jarret, Zizzo and Chiaramonti hits, the Family Secrets case, the Sarno case, the Carperelli case, the Fratto case, the Hired Truck scanadal and Operation Crew Cut.

What have the Detroit mafia had? Jarjosa and Bianchette hits, d'Anna case - anything else?

You're right Scottish.

DiFronzo doesn't want to die in jail. He really closed off the Outfit by not being very active. Solly D is a go getter. He's also a lot smarter then Sarno and Marcello. Those guys took all the attention and look what happened to them. As for who has gotten made. The outfit doesn't do the made thing like the East Coast families do. That's something you have to put in consideration. They did it for a little bit in the 70s and 80s but not anymore. VWhat I can say, a lot of these new members hail from Cicero and Berwyn and are burglars among many other things.

Snake put this chart on blackhand forum. What do you think JJChicago ?

*=Confirmed position/status

Estimated Administration:
Boss: John DiFronzo/86*
Acting Boss: Salvatore DeLaurentis/77
Street Boss: Peter DiFronzo/82*
Underboss: Salvatore Cataudella/63
Adviser: Marco D'Amico/79
Adviser: Joseph Andriacchi/83*

Suspected Territorial Bosses:
Frank Caruso/69 - 26th Street*
Rudolph Fratto/71 - Elmwood Park
James Inendino/72 - Cicero
Albert Vena/67 - Grand Avenue*

Suspected Members:
Robert Abbinanti/60
Robert Bellavia/76
Joseph Calato/65
Michael Caracci/77
Bruno Caruso/71
Leo Caruso/71
Nicholas Cataudella/55
Joseph DiFronzo/81
Robert Dominic/61
Anthony Dote/63
Nicholas Ferriola/40
Gary Gagliano/71
Nicholas Guzzino/74
Rocco Lombardo/75
Michael Magnafichi/53
Michael Marcello/64
Dino Marino/57
Louis Marino/83
John Matassa, Jr./64
Lawrence Pettit/87
Michael Spano, Sr./75
Paul Spano/84
Anthony Spina/61
Christopher Spina/63
Michael Talarico/63
Raymond Tominello/75

Imprisoned Members:
Joseph Lombardo/86 (IP/L)
James Marcello/71 (IP/L)
Robert Salerno/81 (IP/L)
Michael Sarno/57 (10/25/2032)
Joseph Scalise/77 (05/28/2019)

Suspected Members Who Have Died Since 1998:
Donald Angelini (2000)
Dominick Basso (2001)
Carmine Bastone (2002)
Salvatore Bastone (1998)
Frank Bonavolante (2002)
Dominick Brancato (2005)
Frank Buccieri (2004)
Eugene Cacciatore (2000)
Marshall Caifano (2003)
Frank Calabrese, Sr. (2012)
Michael Castaldo (2005)
Anthony Centracchio (2001)
James Cerone (2012)
Anthony Chiaramonti (2001) (Murdered)
Dominic Cortina (1999)
Phillip Cozzo (2015)
James Vincent Cozzo (2007)
Charles DiCaro (2011)
James DiForti (2000)
Joseph Grieco (2013)
Ernest Rocco Infelise (2005)
Angelo LaPietra (1999)
Phillip Mesi (2001)
William Messino (2002)
John Monteleone (2001)
Bernard Morgano (2010)
Romeo Nappi (2001)
Dominick Palermo (2005)
Alfred Pilotto (1999)
Aldo Piscitelli (2013)
Fred Roti (1999)
Donald Scalise (2013)
Albert Tocco (2005)
Alfonso Tornabene (2009)
Anthony Zizzo (2006) (Disappeared/Presumed Murdered)

Members Who Have Flipped:
Victor Arrigo/Soldier (Dead/Never Testified)
Nicholas Calabrese/Soldier
Gerald Scarpelli/Soldier (Dead/Suicide/Recanted Testimony)

The list is very incomplete. The whole grand ave crew is missing. I don't believe greedy Pete is the street boss. He's not in the best health. Also some on that list might be members but are shelved like Mickey Marcello and magnafaci

Who is made in the Grand Avenue crew that is not on there?

The list is a little dated just from the mere fact of some of the ages shown on the list.

Not a big deal and don't get too excited about a LIST.
Conversation go down hill too fast.

There just haven't been that many names released to go off of. It was easy when the Outfit was in the paper all the time but now it's rarely written about.

I made that list on another forum. I hadn't updated it in a bit but I put Vena as the street boss and replaced Fratto with Peter DiFronzo as EP boss. That's going off of Burnstein's articles. A couple people that I respect vouch for him, so even if I don't agree entirely with some of his articles I at least feel better about using them as a source.

What's about this chart ?

Not sure who made that but there are dead guys on there. Also, guys like Magnafichi are posting on websites for god's sakes, so there's no way that they could be considered active. Not sure what they used to differentiate between soldier and associate but they have guys listed as soldiers who are definitely not made.

Detroit has also had the gambling case in 2006 alot of heavy people jack Giacalone, peter tocco etc got busted in that case. The 2009 point shaving case Mitchel "Eddie" Karam and Ghazzi Mani both known Giacalone associates apparently the feds tried to bring jack into this indictment but did not have enough evidence

Thomas Mackeky crew got busted in 2013 he is a known mob associate he was busted in the 2006 case.


Outfit is without a doubt more viable than Detroit but thats not to say the Detroit mob has only had the D`anna bust that is not true

My opinion - Forget that Chart

Forget a chart posted by Furio, how dare you :-)

Chicago is probably more powerful, but Detroit is definitely very active.

I relapsed into my bad habits , my sponsors in the anonymous chart posters won't be pleased

Anyone catch this from a couple of years ago? This guy is always hustling

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2014/10/low-level-chicago-outfit-associate-is.html?m=1