Myth that scumbag wiseguys were "good businessmen"

Can we put this self perpetuated bullshit to rest? I like the movies as much as the next guy... But from the stance of the common working man---fuck these pieces of shit and fuck the riches that follow their following generations.

This was brought on by nothing specific...just the fallacy that more than 1 in 100 of these shitheads could have gotten to where they ended up without murderers and cut.throats in their corners

Ok that sounded really angry. I apologize I'm not angry.

Just baffled that anyone pays credence to this joke.
Peace out...

Legal or not, a stupid person cannot make lots of money. How many criminals are broke and living with their parents? Have dome coffee in the morning for the hangover

There is so many cases that mafiosi have been good business men, the current administration of the gambino and genovese crime families for example are millionaires afew times over ....bellomo, frank cali...daniel leo

Even look at merlino..are you cruising around in a rolls royce phantom like he was spotted in last week? ..didnt think so.

Call these guys what you want...but they control many legitimate companies and they really are leagues above most other criminal syndicates.

I think people exaggerate the "good businessman", "fortune 500" stuff myself.

most of the Irish travelling community and Romany gypsies are illiterate, yet many are millionaires from criminal activities.

Plenty of black street hoodlums have grown into millionaires from dealing drugs.

It's no real sign of intelligence or superiority if you become a millionaire through being a drug dealing scumbag.

If you asked most people what Bellend and Cali do on a day to day basis they probably wouldn't be able to tell you.

Ok let's just break this down

The mobster himself is NOT the businessman. Only difference is he has the money to start the business (sourced from other mob activities) and can employ guys to work for him

So on paper he's the boss/ businessman and gets credit for running a successful business.

Take Sammy bull, he was into construction but his brother in law was the real
brains behind the operation.


Plus like any business, once u learn the trade it's not
really that hard, if u have the means
to start it off/ have customers then you're in "business".

My vote is that some are good businessmen, but most are not and just rely on threats of violence and crime to get where they are.

You know how they say there's something like 10 associates for every made man? Well those associates are one of two things: they are either a criminal without the smarts to become a made man, OR they are a business man who does have the smarts who got involved with the mafia for some reason (gambler, mafia groupie, grew up together, etc).

Of course not all of them were good businessmen. I'm sure many had to bust a business out just to make money, that doesn't show he's a great businessman, just shows he knows how to scrape out a business. Some were brilliant at it, the majority were not. Same with the union guys, some were union thugs who muscled their way in and got caught, then there were those who seemed like legit union laborers who made a ton of money.

Matter of fact I would say more struggle in the game than make it big time.

the biggest reason these sleazeballs made any kind of money was the simple fact that 'freak' j. edgar hoover payed them no mind. imagine if L.E. said your organization didn't exit, how much money you could make, when the highest law enforcement organization said you don't exit, what a farce hoovers fbi was, gave lcn a green light.

I think the first generations of wiseguys born between 1900 and 1945 didn't have a lot of options to make a lot of money in the legitimate world or go to college to become a doctor, lawyer or whatever.

That's why I think the most intelligent gangsters came from that era i.e. Meyer Lansky, Moe Dalitz, Lucky Luciano, Frank Costello, Carlo Gambino, Tony Accardo and Vincent Alo for example. I really think these men were very smart and could've been leaders in the upperworld, be it in business or politics. We all know that the mob must recruit from a different gene pool these days like George Anastasia puts it, because the most intelligent Italian-American boys these days go to college and want a legitimate profession. The descendants of Jewish gangsters chose that route a lot earlier.

Totally agree Billy. A lot of the guys from that generation come across as very smart. If they didn't grow up so poor they could have been successful in the legitimate world.

Also agree with alicecooper. It's easy to run a successful business when you have all the unions and plenty of muscle on your side.

Just curious as to what the difference would be between a "working man" and a "common working man".

As I always say, parking was free in Vegas when the mob was in charge. It's not now. So, the mob couldn't have been all bad.

Running a successful Sportsbook takes a lot of business acumen, TRUST ME. Some of these guys run successful sportsbooks, which isn't a piece of cake!

The key word being the guys who run SUCCESSFUL sports books.....

I always found it funny when one would claim that such and such wiseguy was a great businessman and could of been a millionaire legitimately.
They said that about Gravano and that was a bunch of bullshit.
Running an illegal business is so much easier than a legitimate one.
First off, there is barely any competition because most people fear prison.
Second, you dont follow any regulations. Third, see points one and two.
Most wiseguys are actually insecure and not comfortable outside their small circle. Its really a subculture. Im serious.
That being said, just like the legitimate world, a lazy criminal will always be broke opposed to a more assertive type guy. There are some very good earners in the life. No doubt about it.

I was just about to post the same thing in regards to no legitimate competition. Same thoughts about gravano.

Not saying there aren't some sharp tacks in the mob but to call any of those guys good businessmen is like saying someone would be great at ufc because they are good in wwf.

Ok ok there's always room for a brick lean are once every 59 years or so

Fuckin auto correct

Brock lesnar

Say whatever you will and regardless of any reasons you might have as to why .. You cannot say some of these guys are not extremely business savy.. Honestly some of these guys have legitimate businesses that make a fucking killing.. Look at the ponte's.... Look at crea in construction.. Yeah of course his organized crime ties help him a ton but I'm sure even if he was legitimate fully he would still be extremely successful.. A lot of these guys grew up scheming every second of the day on how to make a dollar.. We all know people who money is just a magnet to them.. Everything they touch turns successful and generates money.. Other guys just can't make a dime. Just like in the real world

Another example... Scarfo jr. I have no doubt that he could have made tons of money legitimately... Just so happens he used his brains and sophistication to generate money in illegal ways... But even then not just any average idiot criminal could have pulled off the first plus financial deal...

Look how successful Sammy Gravano was in Arizona once all his mob connections were taken away.

And fkn Nigerians make a killing scamming people online with viagra pills and scam emails and shit. Doesn't make them geniuses.

leonetti did well when he left the program then again most people would do well if they were allowed to take 1mil with them

I think freeslone did well when he left. mikey Scars aswell


but going back to the original topic most of these guys are not great business men they have certain advantages being a mobster that allows them to do better. Most of these guys are not rich they might make alot but there costs are very high and the lifestyle they lead means most of these guys are broke half the time.

scarfo junior is not the exception that scam he ran would have never worked if he was not a mobster those guys did whatever scarfo and the other guy said because they were terrified what would happen if they said no. Nothing to do with scarfos business skills

Did show scarfo junior was an intelligent mobster most criminals would not think of a scam like that

Everyone on this topic seems to be under the mistaken impression that a real businessman is some kind of educated intelligent individual.

While that might be true for middle management, it may not be true for the actual CEOs.

I remember hearing a statistic that most CEOs of American corporations had low GPAs in college, if they went to college at all.

Here's a random quote pulled off the internet in an attempt to track down the source of that stat:

"In “Talent is Never Enough”, leadership researcher and guru, John C. Maxwell, states “that more than 50% of all CEOs of Fortune 500 companies had a C or C- average in college and more than 50% of all millionaire entrepreneurs never finished college.” So why are most CEO’s “C” students? Does CEO stand for the “C” Entitled Officer?"

So in light of the this topic, which is the assumption that good businessmen are somehow more intelligent than a wiseguy, I would say that if a wiseguy could run an illegitimate business successfully, no it is not a sign of intelligence, but he also is probably just as smart as the majority of CEOs.

I don't think that the mafia EVER recruited from the best and brightest of the Italian immigrant population. No, the best and brightest of that immigrant group overcame obstacles and succeeded in the legitimate world.


As all Italians have assimilated and succeeded in American society, the pool of guys willing to take those kinds of short cuts to make money has dwindled.


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Even a moderately successful businessman has to follow laws and rules that even low level wiseguys don't follow, let alone a high ranking mobster.
When you have payroll, tax, distributor, zoning, competitor, etc issues like a real businessman does, it's an entirely different game.