MS-13's plans to unite all its US gangs

MS-13 bosses planned to unite all its US gangs under one leadership http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/bl...er-one-leadersh

Of the MS 13 could do a thing like this for sure will be more powerful that the mafia in 1931 after the commission was created.

Yeah, because those gangs would control entire political machines and institutionalized police corruption, control unions on a national scale where they can dictate shipping on the eastern seabord and interstate trucking, infliltrate various legitimate businesses, have secret ownership of casinos in Las Vegas and Cuba, and control the lion's share of illegal activities like gambling, drugs, etc.

Come on Furio, really?? LOL

That could never work. On a state level? Maybe, like Mexican Mafia in California, and not even that is a strong leadership for all Surenos(as we know, some Sureno gangs dropped out, a lot of Maravilla gangs didn't even join -> some did later on). But on a national level? Too many power hungry individuals in gang world, it'd be a constant rivarly for the top seat(s).

MS will never even surpass the Mexican Mafia in California.

I dont think you can compare 1931 to present day circumstances.You could get away with things back then that you cant today. There were probably a few times where you could say they were a united nationwide crime syndicate however for most part it was mostly a few individuals that probably got any benefits out of the commission.

MS-13s goal here was to set up a drug pipeline from west-east which was possible, cause if your an ms 13 member in virginia you might appreciate the drug connection from the west coast and the fact its from your own gang is a plus. Also you probably like the cred of being apart of a larger nationwide organisation. If your in new jersey or new york though you might question the usefullness of such a pipeline, unless your really into being orederd around from california.

Demographics are tilting in their favor. We're in a new century now. At some point a crime organization is going to reach the rock star status that the mafia had in the middle 20th century. Russians, Mexican Mafia (la Eme), and the Mexican cartels are still too secretive (at least on this side of the border). That whole El Chapo/Sean Penn thing could be a glimpse into the future, but I doubt it because cartels are too brutal in nature to become mainstream in the U.S. Then again, an Americanized issue of a cartel family could end up being what Cosa Nostra was. A "Castellammarese" type war between U.S. based cartels and The Mexican Mafia? If the cartel wins, that alone is a complete game changer on Southern California's streets, and, again, the demographics are there. I read somewhere that some experts believe more than half of Surenos now (gang members loyal to la Eme) could be Mexican-born.

Government and organized crime experts tend to agree that no group will come close to having the kind of influence the LCN had at its peak. The factors that enabled the Mafia to become what it did are no longer there. Law enforcement is too on the ball. Besides, how does a cartel or gang (which depends almost solely on drugs) become similar to a diversified mob family? And the Russians never became what many back in the 1990s predicted they would.

Incidentally, the Mexican cartels will always have the upper hand with gangs in the US, as they control the drug supply. La Eme makes its money by exacting tribute from gang members who sell drugs. Going to war with the cartels would be make no sense.

Look at the LA suburbs like Bell, that had politicians skimming millions off the top. Not sure if there's any direct evidence of the cartels being involved with that, but it just goes to show how easy it is. Cartels could easily buy off politicians in these towns that are 99% Latino. There's your diversification in the rackets. Sky's the limit when you have politicians in your pocket.

In the mob's infancy, bootlegging was the primary racket. Alcohol is "drugs", and it was illegal then, which made it an illegal drug, just like cocaine or heroin. Exchange booze with the drugs of modern day and you have your parallels between the mob and the cartels.

The main problem with Ms-13 becoming something bigger than prime distributors, is the fact that they would have to MUSCLE the Mexicans out of the supply side. And they don't really have the leverage for that seeing as Mexico is the country that shares a border with the US. MS-13 strongholds are what, LA, and Honduras? I don't think they grow poppies in Honduras, like in Mexico, so there is no leverage there. All the high grade weed is America and Canada, no leverage there. The Mexicans have ties to China for Meth precursor chemicals, as well as the new fentanyl dope, so I can't really see MS-13 supplanting the Mexicans as far as weed or opiates. And there is no leverage on Coke that I can see.

Maybe, I'll say this, I read recently that when Colombians ship coke out of South America direct to Europe, I believe they use Honduras as the transshipment point, but that's coke going OUT THE COUNTRY.


As far as the cartels forming a " Cosa Nostra", I think it's like Ivey said. The Conditions for such an organization to flourish, no longer exist really...
@ oak
I think you might be oversimplifing it a little. First, drugs is similar to, but NOT the same as alcohol. In fact, the only drug similar to alchohol, POLITICALLY, Is weed, in that it's largely tolerated and accepted by a majority of the population. Also don't forget, you could MAKE LIQUOR YOURSELF, in a tub, lol.. Brew your own beer, ect..
Selling liquor, beyond being profitable, for lack of a better term, made you COOL in a way drugs never will be. Liquor is more like cigarettes I think....
Also, that time period, they would send goons into THE VOTING BOOTHS TO MAKE YOU VOTE THE RIGHT WAY. How do you do that today? With patronage right? The cartels have no leverage to give out patronage, no unions, hell in Illinois, a cartel/ mob state, they sent a Governor to jail for running what an illegal hiring scheme? If he can't do it, I can't see the cartels doing it. If Blago can't buy a senate seat, they probably can't either. A guy like Rubio, he takes cartel money? Political suicide if you ask me.... Any thoughts?

MS-13 are Salvadoran. Most of them are skinny, tatted up teenagers. No way this would happen. They have a presence in CA and DC area, thats about it. Also in the last 5-10 years more Mexicans have left to go back to Mexico than have immigrated to the US. And it doesn't seem like the cartels have too much interest in anything but Narco Cultura

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/20/us/mor...finds.html?_r=0

Ivy the mafia before prohibition was only composed by street gangs with the the prohibition the mob started to do milion and become more organized in the Outfit case Torrio and Capone used the power and the money for buy the political influence and the power on the unions.
Same thing for the ms 13 when will create a drug pipeline from los angeles to New York with hundred milion a year can easly bribe cops and politicians and for the unions,gambling ecc simple they made more money with the drugs.

Furio have you ever been to America? I wish it was that easy.

@216LA


Of course, El Salvador my mistake, lol good catch. Salvador doesn't share a border with any of the narco nations right? So I don't see the leverage.
I think you are right about the immigration too. The wages here used to be attractive, but now I think Hispanics are one of the largest demographics pushing for unionized fast food workers right? If immigration reform happens, and all these new votes can be created by people allowed to immigrate legally, maybe then?

@ Furio
Thing with the Outfit, is that the political corruption component was long in place going back to Colosimo and the brothel cartel he ran.

America is a fluid situation for sure. I didn't even think about effects of the election.

I think that if a ms13 national commission type will be create together with a west coast - east coast drug pipeline the next step will be to expand the rackets out the drugs.

SoCalGangs, I never said that they'll surpass EME. I just said that a unified "clique", such as EME, on a State level(and that went for any State that MS13 has presence in) is possible.

And the war between EME and any cartel is never going to happen. There were several Carnales in the past who worked for the cartels, some are still working hand in hand with them. Some even allow cartels to take over their entire neighborhoods for the part of the profits.

Sounds like la Eme already lost the war.

There was no actual war. It's a deal which benefits both sides.

"allow cartels to take over" were your words. That sounds a lot like a surrender.

La Eme is not known for sharing. Ask any Crips or Bloods that were active in LA neighborhoods that were adjacent to Sureno turf in the '90s and '00s. The policy was clear from the early '90s. Take the cocaine trade away from the B's and C's. But suddenly they're giving entire varrios to cartels? The Eme sure is playing nice all of a sudden.

It's different when you compare black gangs to EME and their influence over Surenos, as opposed to the cartels and their co-operation with EME that goes back to late 80s, if I'm not mistaken.

Different carnales always had ties to different cartels, some even went to Mexico to serve as bodyguards for powerful cartel members. However, back then, EME was the middleman between the street gangs and the cartels when it comes to drugs and guns. Come 2000s? The cartel members are moving into USA themselves, they take Surenos off the streets and train them to be killers for them. What I meant by giving their turfs to the cartels, I meant that the cartels deal with certain gangs themselves, or well, at least some of the members. Carnales still get their street tax and their word on the street still means something to the gangs, so basically the fact that cartels do the supplying personally means nothing. As I said before, it's a co-operation.

that wasnt directed towards you. Just speaking in general for anyone who thinks MS13 will become so powerful.
Highly unlikely.

In LA, MS 13 is just another gang. They're not more feared than anyone else.

They do have cliques all over the nation so it makes sense that they can have connections all over that work together in some capacity. But I can't imagine them being as powerful as Eme and for sure they won't reach 1930s LCN status.


I agree that Eme works with the cartels somewhat. As of right now there's no beef between the two. Some Carnales have ordered their crews to not tax "piasas" selling dope in their hoods. Normally street gangs will tax drug dealers within their territory but some piasas get a pass. Also in the county jails the Surenos help protect the piasas. There's an agreement of some sorts between the two.

I'd be interested what, if any, connection the Nortenos have to the cartels. Surenos have been going out of their way to help and protect them.

some gangs don't even sell drugs.....smh

gang members have brains to venture outside the dwindling profits of drugs sales

I just can't argue with you when you have Michael Corleone's body guard as your profile pic. So, good points.

Eme ordering members to not tax Mexican immigrant dealers. Why? It just seems as if maybe someone lost a bet somewhere along the line. Because I'm pretty sure Eme would prefer to tax these dealers.

This.

Death Row Records in the '90s. No Dr. Dre "Chronic" album (over 5 million sold), or Snoop Dogg, for that matter, if not for Compton Piru Suge Knight.

It might depend the Eme member making the order.

Because I know for a fact that hasn't always been in the case everywhere.

It's more likely an agreement. They're getting something out of it.

So, the cartel is getting an entire Sureno gang's turf for drug sales, and la Eme is getting...a cut of the profits? When, 10 years ago, the Sureno gang on that turf took home the profits from that neighborhood minus their tribute upstairs? Seems the Sureno gangs on these turfs weren't thought of when this agreement was made. Thus, still looks like a game changer.

Well, to say an entire turf might be a bit extreme. Some gang turfs can be pretty big, there's going to be some piasas selling, doesn't mean they have the entire turf to themselves though.

I could remember when one of the Eme Bosses of Florencia 13, Arturo Castellano, sent out a letter to his gang telling them to leave the piasas alone, that he's tired of hearing about them being abused, even told them to "get a job" instead.

Cocaine and heroin have been illegal for over 100 years. What makes you think this is going to happen now all of a sudden?

Like I said, it's in only in some neighborhoods that cartel doesn't use Carnales and Camaradas as middle men, but they use their own people for the drugs. As far as calling the shots? EME does that, not the cartels. I think that a carnal who's locked up in the SHU and knows that he's never getting out, figures it's more important that he can issue a murder than get some money in commissary. Not saying it's the same case with everyone, but hey, I believe most are mainly about power and not money, because they can't use the money either way.


As far as EME-cartels relationship goes? Jose "Bat" Marquez had/has strong connections and tried to recruit other carnales in deep with the cartels, so they can get cheaper drugs. David Barron Corona was used as a bodyguard for the leaders of Tijuana cartel before he was killed in a shoot out, protecting the leaders.

Sure, some gangs have branched out into other things at times - identity theft, sex trafficking, weapons trafficking, etc. But you can look at the vast majority of cases involving street gangs, prison gangs, and OMG's. Virtually across the board their core business, often their only business, revolves around the drug trade.



"Not sure if there's any direct evidence of the cartels being involved in that..."

So why mention it?

It's not that we haven't seen cases of political and police corruption involving Hispanic OC groups. The Cuban Corporation and certain Latino areas of New Jersey had this. But it was on a limited scale and not the kind of institutionalized corruption that the Mafia was able to take advantage of. That kind of corruption, at least in relation to organized crime, doesn't exist in the US anymore. Law enforcement is entirely different now and there is much more transparency in politics.



The parallel only goes as far as alcohol and drugs. Have we seen cartels here in the US become diversified like the Mafia did, ie not only being involved in narcotics but gambling, loansharking, extortion, fraud, labor racketeering, infiltration of legitimate businesses, etc?

The answer is no.

In Mexico itself we have seen the Zetas and some smaller cartels diversify into other things like kidnapping, extortion, immigrant smuggling, etc. But Chapo reportedly kept his Sinaloa group for doing this, choosing to focus on drug trafficking alone. Easier to do when you have the biggest slice of the pie.



So let me get this straight. We've seen far more sophisticated, far more powerful and connected, and far richer DTO's in the past not be able to duplicate the kind of wide-ranging influence the Mafia has had, but MS-13 is going to come along and somehow accomplish this? It's not going to happen. Some of you guys spend to much time in dream land, where wild theories, conjecture, and "what ifs" rule, and not enough time in reality.

To be fair, the Mafia was forced out of the bootlegging business in 1933. As of today, gangs/cartels don't have much incentive to diversify their rackets. Talk all you want about the Mafia's diverse crimes but at the end of the day, the families that gained control of the bootlegging rackets were the ones the flourished when prohibition ended. It would be interesting to see what all these gangs and cartels would do if drugs became legalized. What crimes would they branch out to?

For the record, even during Prohibition the mob was already involved in other crimes like gambling, extortion, prostitution, and was starting to get into the labor rackets.

It's obviously a hypothetical but the gangs obviously wouldn't have the benefit the Mafia did of lax law enforcement and institutionalized political corruption. Nor would they have the same opportunities for labor racketeering and infiltration of legitimate businesses that the mob did.

In my opinion, many of the gangs would simply dry up without the drug trade. Their bread and butter would be gone and those left would be dependent on robberies, burglaries, stolen goods, etc. Some of the more enterprising ones would probably get more involved in the sex trade or some types of fraud.

Of course, I'm not arguing for legalization of drugs at all. There's a better way to go about it. But even if it was legalized in the US (which will never happen with hard drugs), the cartels would still have some markets in other countries. But obviously their main one would be gone and that would likely lead to them shrinking and fighting over what was left, as well as engaging more in those other crimes I mentioned.

Yeah lol, add to that the fact that they're letting their members assault, and sometimes murder murder innocent citizens pointlessly such as in the Bologna family killings, or the foiled attempt to murder some kid in high school with machetes and shotguns. That's not exactly the staple of an high-end criminal enterprise if you're going to tolerate such idiotic actions from members.

I basically almost hope they try to organize this into a nationwide syndicate, from the way they behave that would probably make them a far easier target for the feds.