Do the Bonnano's still hold a threat to Pistone?

He infiltrated the family to the point that they considered making him.

It was the ultimate doublecross. Do you think they'll ever enact retribution or is this all yesterdays news for them?

I imagine unwanted heat is the last thing that they'd want to bring upon themselves.

My guess is if a guy from there family even insulted him at say a restaurant the families would disown them all. Go to 4 family's. That whole operation was water under the bridge well gotti was on the street. Now you have the ex boss how Massimo and kids living off there backs collecting rent across NYC.

None of the families would bother going after him. He could walk around any street in NYC without his sunglasses on and nothing would happen.

I always wondered though...did he ever feel guilty that he caused Sonny Black's death?

there was never a time where Pistone was in danger of retribution.

For me yes. He say they (Sonny and lefty) chose to be a mobster nobody force them.
But Pistone spend 6 y of his life with this people ! Went to lefty second wedding and Sonny black believed so much in pistone that presente him to the other wiseguy as friend of us and not friend of mine even if he wasnt made.

Maybe Pistone thinked that the things dont must go as it goes. Maybe hopes that Sonny and lefty would flip but was the 80s and there were the tought guys that prefer to die that flip.

The second a wiseguy clips him the Feds are gonna be all over it, hell they'd probably escort the guy into the NYC Field Office itself just to take the heat off

If he doesn't, he's devoid of a heart..

He hung around with Sonny for years, on a daily basis. Even slept lots of times on the couch in Sonny's apartment. Sonny liked him a lot and thought they were very close..

With what I've read about Sonny, he was one of the few wiseguys who actually was likable. I have respect for how he accepted his fate in the end and didn't take the easy way out.
A man's man in my book..

This is so true.. I've met Joe Pistone @ a book signing @ the Phila. free library, and during his talks, he has stated that Yes ,he does feel responsible & sorry for Sonny Black's demise,but that they knew what they were getting into from day 1..he was only doing his job & Sonny took it like a man's man..he (joe pistone) also stated that he wished he could have given sonny a heads up 2 run,but that would have defeated the the whole shebang,even though sonny would not have run anyways..poor Sonny,met the wrong guy @ the wrong time in the wrong situation.

Probably not, because he used the moral excuse of Sonny being a gangster who had it coming.

Pistone is such a drama queen, always walking around with police in his videos.

Relax, doofus.

Capeci reported Massino's court testimony saying that Sonny Black was not killed because of Brasco. Here it is:


This Week In Gang Land April 14, 2011
By Jerry Capeci
Massino: As Mafia Boss I Had The Power Of Life & Death
A Gang Land Exclusive
Siskel and Ebert gave Donnie Brasco “two thumbs up.” But when a prosecutor asked Joseph Massino for his take on the classic gangster movie, he grimaced and held his hand in front of his face. Then he wiggled his fingers back and forth in that shaky motion that most closely translates as “Mezza-mezza.” Or perhaps, “Eh.”
“Objection!” thundered the defense attorney. “Sustained,” said the judge, ending Joe Massino’s career as movie reviewer.
Jurors were instructed to ignore this part of Massino’s historic appearance as the first official New York Mafia boss to testify for the government – in this case, against a fellow former Bonanno crime family big, onetime acting boss Vincent (Vinny Gorgeous)Basciano.
Thankfully, Gang Land is not required to adhere to the trial judge’s admonitions. For that matter, it’s hard to fathom how jurors will get it out of their heads since Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis was forced to repeat the shaky hand motion when he ruled it off-limits. At any rate, let it be officially recorded here that the first movie review by an ex-mob chieftain delivered from the witness stand was “No Stars!”
Not that the 68-year-old Massino lacked for insight about the inner-workings of the Bonanno family of that era. In fact, he is presumably better-equipped than anyone to pass judgment on the accuracy of the big-screen portrayal of FBI agent Joe Pistone’s undercover work against the crime family from 1976-to-1981.
In any event, once his movie review was over, the burly ex-Mafia boss proceeded to deliver several new revelations, each of which partially explained why he might think the movie version of the Brasco affair was no great shakes.
First, he debunked a long-held theory that a pair of mob murders of that era stemmed from anger at mobsters who were hoodwinked by the FBI agent. Under questioning by assistant U.S. attorney Taryn Merkl, Massino said that he was “made” on June 14, 1977 – a year after Pistone began his undercover role – and learned about the agent’s work soon after the FBI disclosed it in the summer of 1981 to Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, the wiseguy who wanted to sponsor Pistone for induction.
Contrary to what prosecutors alleged at Massino’s 2004 trial – and what was implied in the 1997 movie – Sonny Black’s murder in August of 1981, a month after the feds pulled the plug on Pistone’s sting operation, was not payback for Napolitano’s role in vouching for Donnie Brasco, the jewel thief that Pistone pretended to be for five years.
Massino said that Sonny Black had told him that three FBI agents had alerted Napolitano that the “knock-around guy” he had known for several years as “Donnie Brasco” was really an FBI agent. Napolitano said the agents warned him that “if anything happens to [Brasco], we’re going to have a lot of trouble,” said Massino, adding that Napolitano’s sudden problems were unrelated to the Brasco fiasco.
Sonny Black Napolitano and undercover FBI Agent Joe Pistone“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, recalling that he took part in the slaying and was part of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip (Rusty) Rastelli that authorized the rubout. (Sonny Black looks into the camera as he and "Donnie Brasco" catch some rays at a Florida pool in 1980.)
Massino also dismissed reports that the demise of Bonanno wiseguy Anthony Mirra, whose February 1982 murder was long linked to his own Donnie Brasco dealings, was related to Pistone’s undercover work. Instead, Massino testified, that slaying stemmed from a belief that Mirra, a longtime drug dealer had become a secret “cooperator for the DEA.”
Massino, who is expected to face stiff cross-examination today about his assertion that Basciano ordered the 2004 murder of mob associate Randolph Pizzolo, stressed during his direct testimony that he was an all-powerful crime boss who had the power of life and death over wiseguys years before he took over the crime family in 1991.
He also explained the rationale behind another mob rubout: Disrespect. While he was on the lam in 1984 – ducking trial for the murders of three capos in 1981 – Massino said he learned from Rastelli’s brother and his own brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale, who was then a capo, that Rastelli was planning to whack Cesare Bonventre, a member of the family’s Sicilian faction who had extorted about $600,000 from a drug dealer who was close to Rastelli.
When Bonventre was called on the carpet about it by Rastelli, (right) not only did he deny the allegation, “he got insulted” by the inquiry and “got up and walked away,’ without so much as a polite good bye to his already steaming Mafia boss.
“You can’t do that with bosses,” said Massino. “That’s why he died.”
Rastelli also wanted to whack Bonventre’s long time buddy and partner in the crime and the insult, Baldo Amato – the duo played key roles in the 1979 rubout of wannabe Bonanno boss Carmine (Lilo) Galante – but Massino thought that was a bad idea, he testified.
“I saved him,” he said. “I sent word to the old man. I said, ‘Listen, he’s listening to his captain. We can’t just keep going on killing and killing and killing. He’s following orders just like I follow orders.’ He said, ‘You’re right,’ and he gave him a pass.”
Randolph PizzoloYesterday, prosecutors played tape recordings of jailhouse talks that Massino had with Vinny Gorgeous in January of 2005 – which Gang Land first disclosed thatSeptember – in which Basciano admits ordering a close associate to whack Pizzolo.
In his opening remarks to the jury, defense lawyer George Goltzer conceded that Basciano admitted ordering Pizzolo’s slaying while he was behind bars but insisted that his client was lying to his all powerful boss in order to save the life of Dominick Cicale, a close associate who had whacked Pizzolo on his own.
Goltzer conceded that Basciano was a powerful mobster who had committed numerous crimes, but insisted that he had nothing to do with ordering the December 1, 2004 murder of Pizzolo. His purpose in telling his mob boss he ordered the slaying was solely to protect Cicale from retaliation from Massino for having acted without prior approval.
The defense lawyer implored jurors to listen to the tapes “as many times as you want” during deliberations, assuring them that when all the evidence is in, “the only fair inference is that Vincent Basciano is saying what he has to say to save DominickCicale.”
It’s hard to determine what the jury will ultimately decide, but one irony of the defense lawyer’s words is that if Vinny Gorgeous was indeed trying to save Cicale from Masssino, his old pal hasn’t expressed much gratitude. He has already testified against him twice, and is slated to follow Massino to the stand.
A second irony is that no matter what the outcome of the trial, Vinny Gorgeous, who is serving life without parole for one mob murder, will leave prison in a body bag some time in the future.

Massino's full of shit.

He must have done or said something truthful and of significance that got him his freedom from the Feds.

Truths got nothing to do with it. Being the first sitting boss to flip has everything.

And a fat piece of shit.

Man, Basciano really got fucked all around.

Confiding in the one person that nobody would think would rat...the "last of the old school mafia bosses" and yet he was wearing a wire on him right in the prison yard.

Also, takes that mutt Cicale in, and he turns on him.

I also think they may have fucked him around on that "hit list"

Basciano didnt seem like that stupid of a guy to do that while on trial...I mean really? Im in the middle of his book and I think they even traced the guys mother that was doing the "curse" and she was into witchcraft type shit.

Im rambling a bit...but yeah Massino is a fat rat piece of shit.

We all know he's a fat rat piece of shit but the question is, why did he lie about Pistone? Massino was looking to obviously get a free get out of jail card and a great deal for himself and family. So, why would he invent that about the FBI's most revered agent? He would have said Pistone walks on water and parts the Hudson River instead he said that Pistone was suspected and that Sonny Black was not killed because Sonny took him around. but because he was making a move. Why piss off the Feds and prosecutors? It doesn't make sense. The feds would have canceled any deal that they had with him instead of rewarding him.
Also, keep in mind Ralph Natale was heralded by the FBI as the first boss to ever flip, but we all know the truth about that story.

what did Massino say about Pistone?

That's the bullshit. That SB was killed for making a move not for Pistone.

What's more likely?
SB was hit immediately after Pistone was revealed AND HAD HIS HANDS CUT OFF for 'making a move' or having a fed on record in his immediate crew.
SB was apparently going to make a power play IMMEDIATELY AFTER INTRODUCING A FEDERAL AGENT IN HIS INNER CREW TO BOSSES!
WHAT A JOKE!
AND
In an amazing coincidence simultaneously Mirra (who had spent more time IN prison than out) was hit who was the guy who INTRODUCED the fed and vouched for him OR he was suddenly 'a rat'.
PLEASE.
The Feds also warned Lefty that there was a contract on him too.
What was that for pray tell? Was lefty suddenly 'a rat' too, in another amazing coincidence? Despite the fact he was dying in prison?
What another fantastic coincidence!
Why were SB's hands cut off?
Why did SB GO WILLINGLY TO HIS DEATH IF HE WAS INVOLVED IN A POWERPLAY!!?!?
Where's ANY proof of Mirra being a rat?
Why hit lefty?
These are all AMAZING coincidences or Massino who has a vested interest in not pissing off the Feds made up this bullshit which cannot be disproved and serves his interest.

It's total bullshit. SB was making a power play after it becomes public he had on record a fucking fed in his immediate circle and went to a meeting by himself in a basement after the three captains when he was making a POWERPLAY!?!?
He didn't fight when he was shot saying simply "hit me one more time and make it good". Are these the words of a man involved in a fight for control of the family or of a man knowing he was going to his death?
Please. What a joke.
SB and Mirra were hit for introducing and accepting a FED. Lefty had a contract for vouching for Pistone.
To say otherwise is simply accepting A SERIES of AMAZING coincidences and word of someone serving an agenda over blatantly obvious logic.

SB's hands were not "cut off". Only the fingers were missing which could be consistent from having them blown off from him covering his face or head when he was shot.They also found a jewelry piece on him. So much with hm knowing he was going to get killed and leaving behind his jewelry. He could have been summoned to a meeting by someone who he knew and then he was wasted.

Here is the report from the Last Godfather:

Body of an unidentified victim of a homicide, discovered 8-12-82 in a remote area within the confines of the 122 PCT. The deceased was found wrapped in a Bellevue Hospital Mortuary Bag.
Adult Male, White, about 5'7", Slim build.
Death by gunshot wound to the head.

When the police pulled the soggy corpe out of the mud and laid it on a bed of leaves, it was unrecognizable. An autopsy conducted the next day found the body was so decomposed and filthy, the skin color was difficult to determine. The entire body is blackish in color, with tan-white greasy areas. The medical examiner had trouble telling if the dead person was a man or a woman. The external genitalia are consistent with those of a male. They are very friable and are falling apart on examination. The body's fingers were also missing
The eyeballs were sunken, the nose decomposed; the tongue was protruding from the mouth. A full body X-ray revealed "metallic fragments" inside the man's skull, which was then cut away for further inspection. A deformed bullet was found in the right frontal area of the brain. Eventually, the medical examiner was forced to resort to dental records to identify the body. Five days before Pistone would take the stand, the medical examiner made his determination: the dead man was Dominick "Sonny Black" Napolitano.

The dirt-covered man's clothing included a dark pair of trousers, a dark V-neck T-shirt, a pair of slip-on leather shoes and a leather belt. ALSO, a metal bracelet with chunky, flat links worn on the right wrist.

(The Last Godfather book)

To be fair, lots of guys knew they would be hit and took it, that doesn't really mean much...

I thank you for the post and admonish you for giving me nightmares tonight.

Well it obviously implies he wasn't making a powerplay for the family doesn't it?

You're midway through making a move for control of the family and you willingly go to your death?

Sort of proves my point of Massino being full of shit.

Doesn't really mean much? lol

Man if it wasnt for the internet I swear.

Sure, it comes with that life...but that takes big balls there chief...easy to type it doesnt mean much on the internet though.

And I really do not recall that many examples of a guy knowing he was gonna be hit like Sonny did and walking into it and taking it.

A lot of guys might have had a feeling they were gonna be hit...but certainly didnt just walk into it. Most are killed by surprise and under a ruse.

Old news..most if not all are dead..if that was the case Massino would be the real target

Pistone probably loves it this way. Nobody is gunning for him anymore, but he gets to (constantly) remind everyone that they really are...

Right 2 the point..Pistone's 15 minutes r up..his last book SUCKED..the one w/ sal (bill) bonanno..he has no where to turn 'cept royalties.

I don't doubt what you recount here, but Sonny was given the heads up, not to run, but to turn. That was part of the point of the feds showing up at Sonny's house with pictures of Pistone with his FBI colleagues. If I am not mistaken, Sonny was given a business card at the conclusion of that meeting. The implication was that this was his opportunity to come in with the FBI and join up Pistone. Pistone says he respects Sonny's choice not to turn.

...or more movie deals.

I cant imagine ANY mob guy wanting to cap Pistone after all these years. All the guys involved with him from era are either long past it, dead or in jail. The heat it would generate would not be worth it. Not to mention forensics have taken a massive leap forward since the 1980's.

I mostly agree. Lefty probably would have killed Pistone if he had the chance even if his boss didn't want him to. I don't think there was ever threat of a mob sanctioned hit but it made Pistone much more marketable in books.

@blackjack

I don't want to come off as some badass, but I've known 12 year olds that caught bodies. There were kids in my sixth grade class in cast from bullet wounds. I saw my first gun fired at like four, lol. I just grew up in a outlaw culture...

And for guys not knowing or whatever, true story;
I know two guys, had a beef, and said okay let's have a shootout and see who wins. They actually did on some Wild West shit, shot it out and one guy did die. That's the type of shit I grew up around, don't mistake me for some internet bandit my man...

Also I think you misunderstood what I was saying (maybe I didn't say it at all)


All I meant was that in Pistones book, I think he quoted Lefty as saying "Sonny Black took over all the drugs". Now this whole family conflict at this time is about drugs.This is after the Galante hit, and the three capo murders, and if I'm not mistaken after Catalano stepped down as acting boss. So who's left? Sonny and Joe Massino, Sonny has the dope, and Massino has the connection to Rastelli. Who's going to be boss at this point? Was it clear cut? I could see them silently, secretly jockeying against each other for the spot. That's what I meant with that story of him going to his death or whatever, not like pooh it's no big deal to walk into a room knowing your gonna die. The three capos were like 50/50 they would be hit and still went. I meant that that story doesn't really mean, that it's an impossibility that they would be jockeying for power.

And just for clarification, was the Colombo guy Jilly dead? Why not hit HIM then?
They informed Lefty of the plot against him, right? I think they even arrested him to save his life. But when they give Sonny the card, beyond telling him about Pistone, did they tell him his life was in danger afterwards? Like they did Gotti?


That's what I left out I guess, sorry for the confusion...

Joe Massino is full of shit about those killings. The others in the family all said the order came from Rustelli and it was to gain face cause of the Brasco fiasco. Jelly was never killed cause he was a Colombo and really did not bring Pistone around that much. Donnie was a hang around during his time with the Colombos, and was never on record with any of the Colombo. Mirra seen this and started to recruit Pistone, but the FBI needed the op to gain information on other families if it could, so that is why Pistone switched families.

Sonny Black had a lot more power than Massino, he did in fact controlled most of the drugs in the family which caused Sonny Red to round up Capos against Rustelli rule, I believe there were at least 8 crews originally in the revolt. Sonny Black making a move against Phil doesn't make much sense, as he was the most loyal member to Rustelli. The bottom line is that Massino was jealous of Sonny Blacks power, plus Brasco would be made before Vitale(this comes from Richard Cantarella, Frank Coppa who was told this at a wedding or party, and Salvatore Vitale) which Joe did not like.

@ Giacomo


You are hitting on a lot of points I was trying to make. Massino WANTED TO BE BOSS, but of all the factions, he was arguably the weakest.
But, (correct me if I'm wrong) he was the one who got to see Rastelli, so when he comes back to the streets, he carries the word of the boss. IT seemed THAT was his major play, why Galante didn't want him meeting with Rastelli.

The point I was trying to make is that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. This is a game of 3D chess, Massino, before the Brasco thing comes out, probably in the back of his mind WANTS Sonny out of there, and the Brasco thing was like a present from the mob gods. That's all I was trying to say, it's like Massino is actually telling on himself for real like, " Well the Brasco thing was the excuse I USED, but he really died cause he was in my way".......

That does make alot of sense. I never thought of it that way..

It does make sense CabriniGreen. Thank you,

Sonny Black, Sonny Red and Phil Lucky had a lot of connections nationally. Who did Big Joe know except the families in New York? No one. That is why there were no joint ventures with other families nation wide, he even ordered his men to stop joint ventures with other New York families, but there are a few of them that did not obey Joe's orders and you can see these guys have gained power and wealth since then.