Next family to become defunct

You keeping seeing these smaller familes, that are not inducting any new members and they old ones...are well old.

Which familys next to be on the history books?

Im going with Kansas city or maybe Los Angeles? i know LA is hardly a family but i think theres still a handful [no more than that] ticking away.

What do you mean by defunct? Do you mean when the last member dies?

As far as I'm (and the feds for that matter) concerned, Kansas City and Los Angeles are already defunct.

There are 10 families left if you count Detroit. They would be the next to go.

Not counting Detroit, I think an argument could be made for either the DeCavalcantes or Chicago. But that's years down the road.

what 10 families can you name ivy?, kansas city still has a handful i have recently read, but theyre all very old.

And defunct as in not making money and dead, even if theses are on 5-10 guys...its still a family because associates ect..

Be a viable family means had made men not too old for make money on the street even only bookie and shylocks and making new members on short time. LA is defunct Tommy gambino run what remains but could be absorbed by the gambinos; last making ceremony in KC was in the 90s and the 20 made men was old and are dying.
Also for me the next will be chicago or Detroit.
The decavalcante had the Jersey which the 40 % of people are italian;philly has filled the ranks with the Scarfo guys and made 3 people.

So next 10-20 y: KC,Buffalo,Detroit,Chicago.

Carmine look to this site isnt 100 % accurate but cab easly make an opinion on the defunct or viable family.

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.it/?m=1

thanks guys. Why do you think chicago full of senior citizens? surely theres enough young italian americans around to boost up the ranks.

Also what is left of the trafficante family? google says theres a couple left but they must not be upto much.

The five families, Chicago, Patriarca, Philly, DeCavalcante and Detroit. There are no other active families.

so you dont think theres afew rouge mobsters around in previous hotbeds for activity?

Its really new york, boston, and philly. The other 2 are hanging by a thread.

Yes, for the trafficante after the south florida bust in 2000 and the suicide of Steven raffa the family falle un the shadow of ny family crew in Florida. The Last boss vincent lo scalzo is semi retired.

In place like Cleveland, pittsburgh there only Lone dog that made money waiting to die and remember in the old glorious days.

What remains of the trafficante family

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2000-10-27/news/0010270060_1_indictment-loan-sharking-crime-family

Boss: Vincent LoScalzo

Soldiers:

Antonio Amorelli b.1947
Giuseppe"Joe Baldy" Bellito b.1949
Louis Caggiano b.1936
Julius Chiusano b.1948
Salvatore "Sam" Carollo b.1937
Joseph DiGerlando b.1938
Michael Napoli b.1951

not sure if associate or made

Philip Alessi b.1943

Genovese are the next to be defunct. Most secretive, not a lot of information out there about them from law enforcement. Its almost like its a secret society and we aren't supposed to know that much about them or something!

Milwaukee.... I would assume. That's a very interesting family

Lupertazzi.

The sons semi retarded.

Here we go. Another thread ruined.

I would say everywhere but New York, Jersey, and Philly. I dont think the mafia will ever be done in New York.

Chicago seems to be on their last leg seeing that nobody really knows whats going on up there, which I dont understand.
A couple guys doesn't count towards what a "family" is supposed to be. Three guys taking bets together are bookies nothing more(not saying this in relation to Chicago but everywhere else.)
Recruitment base is way down as it should be, majority of real Italian families (dad,mom,brothers,sisters) are not living in the gutter anymore. Only young Italian guys that choose to be gangsters now are under achieving tv/movie/video game gangsters. Crime is controlled by people who need it the most(poor people) and hopefully their families wont need it in the future.
If I were a law abiding Italian I would be thanking God that prayers from 1930 are finally being answered.

All the things you just said will guarantee that they won't be considered defunct for a long time if ever, these guys havent belonged to anything secret in over a hundred years plus in was never a secret in America. The cats is out the bag and people like us on here will never let the Genovese be considered defunct, just like no one wants to believe these other families are defunct.

Families like Buffalo, LA, Cleveland and KC are no longer viable, I get that, but Buffalo for example still has around 20 members..

So what is the situation in these cities with no full blown administration??

Is it every man for himself, or is there still some kind of authority with only a boss and the rest of them are soldiers??
Or do they report to NY i.e. The Genovese family??

Buffalo is about as defunct as you can get. I don't think Chicago is going anywhere, because nobody knows what's going on, doesn't really equate to there not being any activity. Only someone from Chicago who's around those guys would know. And according to some of those guys on this forum, there are young guys involved in what we'd call "The Outfit". The thing is, like myself, Cabrini, Snakes and others have mentioned before, you can be a part of The Outfit, without being a made member.

Detroit I think is still active, but Id say they might be more of a corporate thing with the D'Anna's locked up. So they might be the next to go the way of the dodo bird. At least as long as they continue to focus on legitimacy. I dont know if they are or not though. I'm just judging off Tony Pal's recent medical insurance sale.

I think the Trafficantes are defunct and Florida is an open city, as always but the only families out there are NY based ones.


NY families arent going anywhere, they recently shut down oUr Organized Crime Units in the NYPD due to lack of funding. So that's only a plus for the families. Means it's more work to do for the FBI with absolutely no help from our local police department.

@ivyleague

detroits underboss just made 50 million legally therefore they have a family

it's a well known fact that detroit is intertwined through marriage

they could have 30 guys and you wouldn't know it


@kingoflittle

somebody that was indicted with accardo is VP of the company that cleans ohare airport

the difronzo brothers construction company does construction at chicago public schools

as long as the city is corrupt there will be a recruiting pool

Those families listed above are it. And it's not me saying so. It's the feds. And the comperative cases in these cities bare this out. There are still living members, some active, in other areas but there isn't a viable family in these sense of having an identifiable formal hierarchy or ongoing activity. And that's what you're looking for when talking about organized crime. Some may want to use their own criteria to add this or that family but I have no interest in that. I go with what the feds and cases over the past 15 years say. Otherwise you have every Tom, Dick, and Harry coming up with their own lists based on whatever.

The Feds have been claiming the end of the mafia since the 1970s. If you took their words at face value, you might literally think the mob no longer exists anywhere. It's in their best interests to say families are defunct. But this mob forum is not a perfect science or standard formula, despite some of the posters here who believe they are the "PC Police" on what families are and are not active. Those are the exact same posters with no common sense.

I think it's the other way around nowadays. Law enforcement agencies heighten the threat of criminal groups to get more funding. It's more likely that law enforcement is exaggerating about how much power the mafia still has than downplaying its existence. Law enforcement was more of a results based function of government in the days when the mafia was first targeted. Today it's a business. Then you add the private contractors to the mix, prison industrial complex. It's big money. Let there be a union rep in some small town that looks like Tony Soprano and the police will insist the mob is back, and there'll be a measure on the ballot for an additional 100 million in funding for a special police unit to stop it.

Detroit and Patriarca most def.
Chicago maybe, I think that's far down the road. What would be most devastating would be if the Blacks and Latinos saw that the Mob Money was more lucrative, glamorous and least dangerous than drugs, and they wanna set up shop.

I think the reason why NY isn't nearly extinct is because they steal members from everywhere. NJ is forbidden from recruting from NY, whilst both Philly and NY recruts from NJ which is clearly a profitable area with lots of recruits. I get that most members live somewhere other than where they operate, but think about it; The Lucchese NJ faction is claimed to have atleast 50made members. And (Idk) Lucchese probably have a crew in Florida or something, so how many members are left in NY? Around 30-40 ? If NJ was ''indepedent'' and had all of NJ for themselves, with no other family involving themselves, could NJ be one of the largest families with 150-200 members maybe? (Just throving numbers) and the same with Florida, could they maybe have had something around 30-40members if they laid claim to all of Florida?

I get that when the Boss of a NY family sends a guy to establish a crew he says to some Brooklyn-dude ''Hey, take Frankie Fish and Freddy Frogs to Miami, set up shop'' but there has to be some sort of local recruiting?

Detroit is my prediction of the next family to become extinct, if it hasn't already.

I see how you would think so, but Detroit have a lot more steady leadership than say the Patriarcas. Also I think Detroit would have more power being in one city, where everybody is close. Whilst Patriarca switches its leadership from Providence to Boston almost regularly. It might be a neat thing when it comes to confusing cops, but confused members is a family's doom. In 1990 Detroit had 280.000 ethnic italian/italian-americans. And they don't have competition from Irish Gangs like Boston.

We can almost say for sure that the Detroit Partnership is going more legitimized, much like Chicago. But The feds can't prove everything and for all we know they might be deeply involved in god knows.

By ''The Confused Members'' comment I mean that it is not unlikely that people don't know who is who and a Fed might infiltrate easilyer. And also some Boston high-ups can beef with Providence and start an internal warfare. Nobody in Boston who is connected is going to stand up to guys from Rhode Island. The New England Mob could might be an interesting TV show

In case you haven't noticed, the feds have become more careful about declaring the mob dead in areas where it isnt. But in others it doesn't come up because it's generally accepted as fact and the lack of law enforcement interest, as well as statements from OC experts, bare that out. If an objective observer looks at the evidence as a whole in any given city, it's not hard to see which families are still active and which ones arent. The only people who try and make it more complicated than it is are the ones trying to fool the naive.



New England has been as active as any remaining family outside NY over the past 15 years. They still have 40-50 members and have apparently made new ones in recent times. Detroit has nowhere near 40-50 and even Scott hasn't claimed any concrete info on recent ceremonies.

Not sure where you got 50 members for the Lucchese Jersey crew but it's nowhere near that. That would be about half the family in that one crew. Every NY family is active in Florida to some extent but it seems the Luccheses have had the least in recent years.

And the NY families have a large recruiting pool, with or without New Jersey.

His ass

Yeah, the 2004 NJ OC report talked about several Genovese crews based in the state, as opposed to one for the Luccheses, and the combined total for all Genovese members in the state was 40. So obviously there's no way the Luccheses would have that many, even if you included guys from NY-based crews that operated there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucchese_crime_family_New_Jersey_faction

In 2004, the New Jersey Commission of Investigation stated that the Lucchese crime family had about 50 members active in New Jersey.[1] The New Jersey faction is currently led by capo Ralph Perna, who took over in 2007.

That number is false

I can't prove anything and I find it hard to believe myself but I've searched and searched for facts and not much of the articles I come across mentions membership except from Wikipedia Claiming that the New Jersey Comission of Investigation said so. All the other articles pretty much mentions Taccetta and the ''war'' and Perna earning alot in Gambling and some indictments.

Maybe the guy who wrote the wiki got it all wrong but I find it hard that he's lying, why would he? and make such claims as to the Jersey Comission of Investigation.

That's your problem right there. You're info comes from Google. Mine comes from the street. I rarely comment unless it's about the jersey Guys... That's because I can speak on them first hand. Regulars will cosign that.

You got it pal. You got all the answers.

Let me guess, you're a young kid dreaming of become a guy of the streets, but you're to chicken shit and spoiled to make it, so you sit here and act tough.

I'm sorry I am not from America, but I read books and articles on various sites like most of the people here probably do. I can see how real gangsters might be on this site, and if you're a toughboy then I am wrong but please, don't come here and brag because if your info actually comes from the streets you're likely to be fed bullshit by guys who wants to enlight a better picture of themselves.

I actually find google more reliable because much of this is information taken from various newarticles for example who got their information by the Government.

I don't want to seem defensive but you got that disgusting vibe about you that makes me dislike you.

You got me. You win.

Bobby Pazzo is 100% legitimately in tune with the streets here in Jersey, we have compared notes and we both are the same age, know the same things about the same people that you weirdos from Europe and Middle America cant Google. Bobby Pazzo, these idiots have no clue!! I only post about Jersey and Philly because I know Jersey from growing up here and knowing a few guys from my neighborhood "in the streets" and I got to know a little bit about Philly when I dated a South Philly girl in my younger years, still keep in touch with a few neighborhood South Philly guys I met through her.....Trust me, there's some stuff that you just can't Google or that investigators haven't uncovered/exposed yet!!

Just stop acting tough, If I am wrong you can present facts and discuss, if i'm not wrong this is a discussion forum. That Piece of shit 50s-grease-attitude doesn't take you too far, man.

Thanks Dante. I know better than to feed into this guys shit.

I am not trying to seem like an asshole here, I believe the two of you . But if it's so easy for you to know everything about Jersey because you know people and what not, how can it be so hard for the feds who got turncoats? And all the turncoats who writes these books? I am just curious and I am sorry Bobby because I was wrong :-)

First, in general, stay away from Wikipedia if you want good info about the mob.

Second, you can read the actual report that's online. If you Google "Changing face of organized crime in New Jersey" you'll see the full PDF version. A shorter, easier to look at form of the report can be read at the link below.
http://mafianj.com/sci2004/index.shtml

Third, here's the excerpt in question:

Despite the assaults by law enforcement and the apparent slowdown in membership recruitment, law enforcement authorities estimate the group still consists of from 110 to 140 members, with approximately 50 members active in New Jersey. The organization has at least 1,100 associates engaged in criminal activity primarily in New York, where the group’s hierarchy is located. New Jersey operations span Essex, Union,  Monmouth and Morris counties. Law enforcement authorities believe that most of the New Jersey members and associates of the Lucchese family reside and conduct much of their business in Morris County.

So, I suppose one can be excused for believing the family's New Jersey crew has 50 members, even though the report isn't referring to just that one crew. The family, of course, has other NY-based crews that have operations in New Jersey. In fact, the report talks about "commuter mobsters" who live elsewhere but travel to New Jersey for work.

However, I do question the figure rising to 50 even with them. The reason being, some other figures in that particular report seem to be inflated a little. The family would be a lot closer to 110 than 140 members. 100 members or so was the last estimate I saw. And half of them are active in New Jersey? That seems excessive. Especially when, elsewhere in the report, you have the Genovese family, which is said to have several crews based in the state, plus others that have operations there, only having 40 members active there. The 1,100 associates for the Luccheses also seems high compared to other estimates.

Stay classy, my friend..

+1


bobby knows what he i talking about he knows alot about these guys he is no bullshitter anything he says about jeresy is fact he has seen more than most people on this site can even imagine...

I absolutely 100% believe that GR, I can say the same of myself in my neck of the woods, but to call posters on this board from different regions of the world weirdos and idiots is a little uncalled for me thinks..

Don't take it personal billy... Dante was just coming to my defense.

Thanks GR. I'm not here to get into petty arguments. Guys like you and Dante know the deal.

Fair enough Bobby, nothing worth arguing about indeed..

NJ used to recruit from NY until they got banned (If that's true?)
Could it be that if in some ancient times that NJ laid down the law that they had monopoly in NJ and all the membership from it belonged to them, that they would become stronger/as strong as the NY families? I mean half-ish of Philly is even based in jersey, or would many members still probably join NY and drive over the bridge everyday?

Same with the Tampa guys, they won't travel to NY. If Trafficante had monopoly, how many members do you think they've had?

Again, I know the families sent guys from NY to Florida but there has to be some local recruits, no? Someone Italian who said ''Fuck Tampa I'm goin' with The Gambinos''

Yes, that's true.



There was never a New Jersey family in a position to tell New York anything. You already had guys from NY active in Jersey and, as Raab talks about in his Five Families book, most of them ended up joining one of the NY families with the DeCavalcante family being the only family actually based there.

And what was left of the Trafficante family did affiliate themselves with the Gambinos. They were still Trafficante members but they aligned themselves with that NY family. Sort of the way the DeCavalcantes have done.

Ivy, how does that work? For instance Trafficante guys who affiliated themselves with Gambinos. Did they kick up to NY administration and were they equal in status(notice I said status, not the actual respect on the streets or power) as the NY made Gambinos?

Oh yes I forgot Cleveland. I feel Cleveland is really the next to become defunct. You really can't argue against that. What a sad piece of shit family. It's literally down to TWO douchebags.

They are already defunct.

I have a hard time imagine there is any LCN in Cleveland. Probably a few old bookies. I think Cleveland has become much like the proclaimed ''Seattle Crime Family'' - nothing LCN, just a few crooks with italian names.

Didn't the DeCavalcante have something like 70-100+ members at one time? And if they had done this in the early 50s couldn't something like this happen? Or would it probably just break down to war?

Thanks for responding.

Make it one. Manziel was cut today.

I seem to see Cleveland mentioned a lot in a lot of the big Vegas operations in the mid 20th century. With the low margins of todays criminal underworld, where drugs is THE primary industry, there's only enough room for the biggest and the most powerful mafia families, most being in NY. The other families across America have lost their territories to street gangs. This is a lay person's opinion, however. I welcome any and all corrections.

Can you send me a link to this?
I doubt theres anything ''family'-ish going on there. Like I said, a few crooks with italian names doesn't make a family, nor a capable gang. Just hustlers.

They haven't lost much territory to street gangs other than the albanians, russians and maybe chinese/japanese?
Crips and bloods doesn't do what the mafia does. A Mob family and a street gang can coexist on one territory as far as my understanding goes. And I don't think drugs are THE primary income for OC. They mostly survive on Racketeering, Gambling etc. Drugs are mostly for low guys, the high era of LCN and Narcotics are over as far as I know.

Well, it seems this discussion has taken place before here and it's going in circles. I've seen a lot of people post about how the mob's primary business today is loan sharking. I can watch any late night tv program, and see 10 commercials for payday loans, regardless of credit history. Perhaps you can tell me, how does the mafia compete with what is basically boom times for legal predatory lenders? If I lose my rent money in Reno, why do I go to a wiseguy who will break my legs if I can't make my payments when I can just go to a payday loan place where worst case scenario, my already crap credit just gets crappier and eventually gets paid for by the tax payers?

Even if you disagree on the strength and numbers of the Detroit fam, the fact that they have a fully functional admin all on the street and at least 3, possibly 4 crews makes it clear to me theyre not close to being defunct...imo i would say the Decavs are the closest to being defunct or more likely absorbed into one of the NY fams? I may very well be wrong and im happy to admit it, but i don't recall any concrete list of the family admin and who the actual skippers and what crews they have? Im sure a more knowledgeable poster can correct me on this though

Detroit are a lot closer to becoming extinct than the the Decavs.

A lot.

I think it was just an alliance where the Gambinos were the senior partner. There wasn't much left of the Trafficantes and them being affiliated with the Gambinos gave them more weight.



From what I've read, the DeCavalcantes never had more than 60 or so members max.



Drugs are the primary money maker for street gangs, motorcycle gangs, and of course the cartels themselves, but gambling is #1 for the LCN. Drugs is still a big money maker for the mob but it has been marginalized in the trade because of all the competition.



The mob's #1 business is gambling - primarily sports betting. But loansharking goes hand in hand with it. Most mob loansharking cases are tied to gambling.



I'd believe it about Detroit if we had more than just Scott saying it. I've said it before, I don't take his chart's at face value and have good reason for not doing so. The DeCavalcantes at least are in the Northeast, which has the biggest recruiting pool, and have made new members recently.

Coz when you used up all your credit legally on gambling, nobodys gonna lend you anything.

The Decavs aren't going anywhere within the next 30 years. The guys in the NY Families look down upon the Decavs (hear it from guys I know first hand) but the Decavs have two things going for them- they have plenty of young guys coming up (look at the ages of the guys in the most recent bust in the Toms River area last year) and New Jersey has TONS of Italians that want to be gangsters . New Jersey also still gets a lot of the Italian immigrants from Southern Italy when they decide to come to the USA, a majority decide to settle in New Jersey (granted Italian immigration numbers to the US as a whole are way down)