gangster report:tensions rising in Philly

http://gangsterreport.com/temperature-rising-in-philly-mob-circles-as-summer-comes-to-a-close/

George borgesi and Marty are fighting joey and Steve backing marty and joe ligambi (made peace with geogre at the end of the day is his nephew) backing geogre

Mentions the domestic dispute between sonny mazzone and his wife but goes into more details about joeys reaction

George has to watch out his behaviour is going to get him trouble walking out of sit downs and he is a fucking nutjob

The chick is a good negotiator but there is a limit when dealing with a mad fuck like geogre

http://gangsterreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/abn.png


who is the guy on the left of geogre its him lou and who is the other guy does anyone know

How much longer will merlino tolerate disrespect, georgies actions will make it hard for ligambi to defend and ligambi will go along with whatever decision is made

I bet ligambi does not even like George he is doing it because they are related and he sister wants him to

they should call it quits, hire a cameraman and make a mob wives/jersey shore mashup.

that would be more profitable than anything they have going right now anyway.

It seems like Philly is way too top heavy......Too many chiefs and not enough indians.

I can only imagine how small the pie has gotten since the 80's.

Does philly or NYC have any dibs on the remaining casinos?

Doesn't sound like Georgie Boy is all that ubazz, to me. He just wants what he feels he's entitled to, a larger piece of his rackets back. Wanting to whack Angelina is definitely just asking to be shelved, in this day and age. But all his other gripes seem pretty reasonable to me. Nice to know the Changs are trying to mediate things, instead of picking sides, says a little about Joey & Johnny's reported "closeness". And Lol @ Georgie Boys mom coming to his defense in mob sitdowns.

If this is true and someone like Scott Burnstein, a guy from Detroit knows about 3 different sit downs in the last month and intricate details etc, who's beefing who, it's time to pack it in for the Philly Mob.

That's if you believe all this to be true, if a mob reporter from Detroit knows about you having a sit down to get a fellow made man killed within a month I think it's time to quit.

Why is it 'nice' to hear the Changs are trying to mediate things?

Because it keeps guys from jumping to drastic actions, like a murder which hasn't been signed on to. And like I said, it says a little bit about the theory of Merlino & Johnny Chang being the best of friends. If they are, maybe Johnny would've been quicker to back Merlino's horse, along with his dad.

Who cares if Borgesi or Angelina kill each other, they're both murderering scumbags.

Regarding the Changs, if it is true that they are trying to mediate the dispute, it's probably down to his dad being out of prison, if Chickie was still locked up, Johnny would probably have sided with Merlino, without his fathers protection.

It was just a comment, man. Don't get too hung up over the word "nice". And I don't think it would've been that black and white personally, as there's been conflicting reports of Johnny Chang and his father's views toward the whole Merlino/Mikey Chang/Joey Jr thing.

Coming this Fall: "Mama's Boys, Philadelphia."

That stupid show in the Bronx is how they wired up that fat stoolie and put Sally Larca away for close to ten. On a fucking pot rap!

I can just picture some elder Italian lady in the kitchen making spaghetti and meatballs waving her tomato paste filled spoon at Joe Ligambi repeating, "do the right thing for Georgie Boy". Lmao!!!

How did the show lead him to being wired?

I'd watch that. I wouldn't even call the Sons of Italy to report the network for pushing an old stereotype. But seeing Ligambi in a wife beater and boxer shorts screaming for his steak like DeNiro in "Raging Bull"? I'd pay fucking admission .

"These sources tell Gangster Report that Borgesi wishes to get permission from Merlino to murder Angelina".

That's a pretty serious allegation. Who are this guys' sources? The only people who would know about that sort of thing would be high level people, not the type of fringe players' who typically feed info to writers.

I call bull shit.

"Well, whether he likes it or not, Skinny Joey is the focus of a multi-agency federal criminal investigation, a probe sources in law enforcement claim includes the FBI, IRS and state police departments in Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey."

Why? Honestly, it is crazy how much attention wiseguys get from law enforcement solely because it's a headline friendly bust.

Does one really have to ask why, the feds, IRS and others continue to build an investigation? He's Joey Merlino, the feds have had a hard on for him forever, and they'd like to put him away for life, which is the harsh reality of Merlino and the Philly mob. And I always kinda had this belief that the feds wanted the second generation kids of the Scarfo admin locked up under the jail, in fear that they'd continue the "legacy" of sorts.

thats horrible. the guy has a wife and kids. i heard they arrested him at his daughters school too. half way through his sentence they'll probably legalize pot here anyway, and its damn near legal in the state they were importing it from. maybe if/when that happens he can appeal or something

Isn't it possible he's just trying to be an objective arbitrator?

Maybe Merlino is letting things play out in hopes that an agreement is made, but as boss isn't it ultimately his call as to which way this dispute goes?

Anything is possible. What I said is also possible.

I mean, this is a well known beef, it isnt top secret information.

It has been reported by more than just Scott that Georgie was pushing for his rackets back. And I don't think it is that far fetched if he has some sort of FBI source that they followed these guys to the sit and gave him a tip.

As far as him pushing to murder Angelina, that is something you could kind of figure hot head Borghesi would push for...but yeah I dont see how he would know that for sure unless there was a wire at a sit

Other than that I dont see how it is that far fetched that an fbi source threw him a tip

I agree that Georgie has a legit beef....but the hot head went about it all wrong making all that racket about it. Blew any chances he would have had at getting a bigger slice of the Delaware county pie

It's crazy that, if this is actually true, that mobsters today, can go onto an internet chatroom to see whether their life is in danger. That's why I question the validity of some of this stuff. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if some of these guys have loose lips. But it just seems so strange to have something like this out there about sitdowns. Seems more like TV than reality.

Yet you have these same mobsters from said article who have been taking pictures with other mobsters from around the tri-states, and sharing them on social media. If they can go on no instagram and find out who they're on good terms with, why not the other way around? Its a different world, the more available a criminal makes himself for the public and their phone cameras and video recorders, the easier of a surveillance target you become.

I wish they had video of Borghesi leaving in a huff like a little kid lol

Delaware has a pie?

Are you sure you don't mean those little hot apple things on the dollar menu at McDonald's? .

Hey! Those people have to gamble their hard earned money away too! lol

I have only been to Delaware twice for work. Delaware Park Casino and track was okay.

Bunch of swamp looking people down there...I made the mistake of going to a Delaware Wal Mart hahaha

Tax Haven

They mean Delaware County, PA. That is where the DelCosa Nostra came out of that led to Bent Finger Lou eventually testifying.

Starting to get a little tired of Scott's same rehashed statements. Then to suggest someone is requesting a hit on another without ( I'm confident) reliable sources its not cool on any level. Just my two cents but I'm sure others feel same too.

ahh I was mistaken, but cant be much better lol

It's not like the mob is the Kardashians and completely new subjects can be written about daily.

Those of you that come in these threads to say the same shit are getting annoying.

It isn't like you got fooled by the title and didn't know it was a scott burnstein gangster report article.

Simple solution...Don't enter the threads about his articles if you don't care for them. Is it that difficult?

These threads could also have "speculation" written in the title.

I like Scott's articles. They provide good historical summaries. But, for you guys/gals out there who learn about the Philly mob primarily through his articles and this website, that's what they are.

Any one of you, who reads the old philly articles or who has read the books that have come out on Philly can write the same kinds of articles.

I haven't posted anything on this website in a while because I haven't heard anything of substance. No one knows what these guys are up to right now.

Ask your bookie if he's posting a link to his costa rica website on his twitter or Facebook account? Sounds stupid right? Why would anyone close these guys tell a reporter about who wants to kill who? If Angelina turns up dead tomorrow, you don't think Scott's gonna have a small problem with his source?

I agree that the hit thing does seem a bit far fetched as far as him hearing it directly from a source...

But one could certainly speculate that hot head Borghesi who bragged about 11 murders would want Angelina dead

Your all changing his words he said there was a rumour that source told him that George was looking to kill Marty

Did not say it was fact or that he believed it was just a rumour


I don't understand you Scott haters its like you want him to write something you disagree with you do know most of his sources are law enforcement

There's a simple solution for those of you who are "tired of Scott's rehashed articles". Its called don't fucking read them, or comment in the threads, unless of course you have some compelling new information for us, in regards to the topics of his articles. Simple, right?

Irresponsible journalism at the very best.

Relax buddy. I've offered my opinion, several speculative threads ago, on the whole Philly Scene. Some of it's what I've read, some of its what I heard. I got no "compelling" news that I want to share with you.

These threads are purely speculative and they are stale, that's all. No offense to you. Nothing current is being discussed.

I wasn't referring to you. Your comment wasn't anything negative. This is all speculation. However, I was referring to those posters who simply made posts like "I'm sick of Scott and his rehashed articles" and "irresponsible journalism" with nothing else to offer except to bash him.

I've been on these forums for a while, and Scott's always been a constant. He's a pretty good guy and prior to creating website, literally everyone and their mother appreciated his articles and whatever they had to offer, whether it was old news with new speculative tidbits or not. Seems like once his website got up and going, he was just "fishing for views".

The guy co-authored a book with Phil Leonetti, yet according to some posters, it's impossible for him to have Philadelphia sources who perhaps possibly did relay all of this information to him. And now he knows nothing about Philly, because he's from Detroit..Please.

So if I choose to selectively question aspects of respective articles I should not read them and lose the right to have an opinion?


These are boards for opinion. Almost nothing is set in stone. Get over yourself.

A more concise way of saying what I was trying to say.

I don't give a fuck about the guy rehashing history. That's what most of Anastasia's articles are. "Merlino, who was convicted bla bla bla. Did 14 years bla bla bla. Is living in florida bla bla bla". "Mazzon, who was convicted with Merlino bla bla bla, did 9 years bla bla". Honestly, it doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is this guy talking about people conspiring to murder other people based on the words of some fringe low level bookie. It is really irresponsible.

I think it is highly irresponsible to claim a confidential source mentioned a planned killing. Its bullshit and it shows these mob journalists ran out of things to write about.

I honestly think furo_from_naples charts contain more interesting information than this speculative drivel. It's really kind of a slightly-more-high-brow version of "How much do associates get paid" or "how do i become a made guy" or "was gotti a good boss". Except rather than slightly high junior college kids talking nonsense, we got a grown ass man slandering the shit out of guys with no evidence.

LOL well said sir

"tired of Scott's rehashed articles" isn't selective questioning. Lol, it's a flat out statement.

And what in this article is exactly slander? Like I said, the guy clearly was able to gather some sources a lot of us couldn't and still can't with his book with Leonetti. Have all those sources dried up over the past couple of years since that books release? First it was he's rehashing old material, now he's slandering. How is it slander if it's the same shit others before him have wrote about? I don't think anyone ever believed or stated such the Borgesi wanting to kill Angelina aspect of the article. But this too, is rehashed information. First mentioned by Lou Monacello. How is this slander?

Why is it so hard to believe Scott has sources in law enforcement ?? In my opinion the guy is a very talented writer on the American mob and has co wrote one of the best books written on the American mob , I know a lot of people who enjoy and appreciate his articles and website , some posters on here just like to pick holes in everyone's stories and posts , that's more tiring than one of Scott's articles , get a grip

Just wanted to comment on the Sonny Mazzone part is Scott' article. The woman he beat up is still his wife and the house she lives in with their son is in both of their names. I was told that she wanted to change the locks on said house but in order to do so, since still married and are co owners of the house she had to get an order of protection and in order to do that she had to press charges. Now I have no clue if she since dropped the charges or whatever else has happened. However, I do know that was her original decision. But then again, I,dont know what she told police and so on because he was released on ROR within a few hours. He was chArged with simple assault. I guess that's the reason for ROR and hence would be released on a normal time schedule as he was. I was just shocked he received such a light charge when he was drunk, in public, AT THE SHORE and it was his Wife. I hope maybe he got some corresponding charges like anyone of us would. He was WASTED and his from the cops.

About scott, I'm happy there is someone consistently writing about Philly and does have George A. as a good resource. But with him not being from or living in Philly is a big disadvantage in my eyes. So sometimes I may question something he says more than maybe another reader. I did like his phil book for what phil gave him haha. I'm glAd he tries to give us updaTes and does provide the historical insight when writing his articles.

philly has a rag-tag mob family with too many members for their lack of territory

somebody has to retire, be paid off, or get shot......it's how crime works

There 1.5 mil in Philly Cook. And half as many again in Southern Jersey.
That not big enough for 40 wise guys?

What's your acceptable Wiseguy to civilian population cook? 1:10mill?


But good argument.

if they have that much territory then why do they act like dinner thieves

maybe they just lack the class or act like bums to throw off the feds

they may have too many shooters and not enough thinkers

I guess that I'm one of those guys who has 'picked holes' in the past. I have nothing against Scott B. I like to read his articles. I have no doubt that he has sources in law enforcement and elsewhere and has provided valuable information to interested people like those of us on this website.

That being said, I have the right on an internet chatroom or board or whatever this is called to express some concern or doubt over a couple of the things he has written. It bothered me that he wrote about the 'hulking' presence of a 5'7 Boston mobster whose mistress referred to him as Napoleon. It made me feel like he didn't do his homework this one time. And if it happened once, then has it happened again? It opens a can of worms. All journalists have to deal with that. It's part of their job.

That's my piece. I am not focused on picking holes in his stories and never will.

+1 completely agree

Eh, I think he means Italians left in SP. I don't think he's necessarily wrong that thre might not be enough action to keep everyone happy. Do you disagree, Sonny?

Here's an interesting theory... Assuming the Scott's source is in Law Enforcement most likely, what if LE is leaking semi-true or exaggerated half-truths in order to get people talking on wires or even stir the pot potentially with Angelina and Borgesi who might not necessarily have hits out on each other, but would certainly cause a commotion if they a heard a rumor such as Georgie "wanting to hit Marty"?

My point is, I don't think LE just leaks stuff monthly for the hell of it... They have motives as well so just keep that in mind.

http://nypost.com/2013/05/03/from-reality-to-real-life-rat/

Sally wasn't wired - Anthony Zoccolillo was wired and then turned witness, as I understand it. I guess he's an associate? Anyway, he was one of the subjects of "Mama's Boys". I don't think the show itself was actually much of a factor, insofar as the arrests were concerned/ It could have been purely coincidental; If i had to guess, I'd assume he was being watched long before the show came into the picture. It just so happens that after he was on television, he ended up turning witness to avoid a lengthy prison sentence.

On the other hand, The article also mentions another case where one of the subjects ended up wearing a wire and incriminating a bonnano capo all while the show (Mob Wives) was filming...Maybe LE are using these shows to help in their investigations, or both cases are coincidences, who knows.

My personal feeling(for no real reason)is that both were coincidences. It seems like an overly complicated way to catch criminals, honestly.

It's not like Capeci hasn't done the same thing 1,000 times. But I bet you won't hear them say a word about it, since he handles NY and is more well known and respected.

Tickling the wire and feeding stuff like this to journalists is an age old practice.

you nitwits are clueless. the fact that he speculates on attempted murder is not only libelous but completely unprofessional and dangerous. i got no beef with him. he is just another scribe that wishes it was 1987 to me.
and Anastasia got CRUSHED on here for ALWAYS rehashing stuff. make money not headlines in every fucking video.
i got no dog in the fight but Ray Charles can see whats going on.

Capeci gets killed across the street and here for his lame articles every week. open your eyes

you guys are not reading the article he said it was a rumor that one of his sources said is that the only thing you got from the article

as usual people exaggerating things

some people have there doubts about scott and they offer constructive criticism and they still respect him. I respect there opinion
i dont understand some of you guys you seem to have it in for him whatever he does you guys come out with ridiculous statements and arguments just because its scott and you still read his articles but many of you forget he is the only guy reporting on philly and detroit you should be grateful but hey you guys all have street knowledge thats why your on a mafia forum.

Not that he cares he has alot of people vist his site on a daily basis hell him and al profits video on detroit has huge amounts of views and the site scott and al says gets a huge following i doubt he cares about a small minority of guys on a mafia site think about him

as i said above many sometimes have there doubts and question some of his points this is a mafia forum meant for discussing and i repect what i dont get is that some of you seem to be against whatever he does what has he done to annoy you guys his second name is not capeci or antastia

remember people geogre is retired and capeci will soon follow get used to it people

its a very hard job to report on the mafia so give the guy some credit he really brings you into articles and thats what many who read his site enjoy.

geogr antastia regularly helps out geogre they are friends fact he learnt from the best


this is the last time i will comment on this subject it is one that clearly a argumentative topic so i wont but my opinion is now well known (though to be fair its quite obvious of my opinion from my name and i posted the articles

I could give a fuck less about Scotts article but this is getting out of hand. Delaware County is not in Delaware. Unless you know something we don't know, labeling scotts "source" quoted to emphasise it being singular according to you, is a "low level bookie fringe associate." "They are fighting over crumbs." So much speculation in here turns into misinformation. clearly most of the same people who troll these threads are not familiar with Philadelphia, and of course a lot of other posters are obviously from other places,let me clue you in a little bit. Philly is not a small city. For my friends in Europe and all you geography buffs I think its like the sixth largest city in the United States. In the city, the pa suburbs which are vast, and the NJ suburbs.. Gambling is sort of a big deal, like a huge deal. Wow,OK guys now bare with me. There are like a million people making book and lending money in 30 mile radius, do you see where in going with this? Lol. Just don't believe everything you read on here. Nothing is dead yet and football season starts tomorrow.

Y'all gotta chill... We're on a message board.

it started already

Im going out like HK. Ill be across the street if you need me.

I crushed college last weekend. Had the under huge for Stanford game, then Texas A&M. Sunday had Marshall and the over w/ a rev and cashed on a pick six with like two mins left in the fourth. I wason Ohio State and the over Monday. Do yourself a favor and bet the over in NE tomorrow, do it soon before it closes at like 53, I alrwdy got it a 51

NE is going to smoke Pitt and their awful secondary.

Fuck, I hate the patriots. But damn it, they are good.

I agree but don't sleep on Pitts offense this year. I hated the pats for years until Indy finally beat them in the AFC game and won the Superbowl. At this point I admire their coach as the best coach in pro sports and I love money so they help a lot with that too. Cashing so many times ATS and cashing tons of overs.

Bunch of degenerate gamblers on here...

Kay, come down off that high horse now..

Got the over too love that pick at 53 too....went 5-1 saturday, i get some good ones early in college and build up a little cash but the NFL kills me and love to bet the o/u there....and you are right philly, the burbs, and south jersey is one of the largest metropolitan areas in the US including all of that and just philly is 5th or 6th largest area...and the STATE of deleware which is very close to Deleware county in philly also has legal sports book....but with the online betting sites that the local bookie uses at the local watering holes you can place a bet on your phone and my guy lets you call him if you need a change before gametime for whatever reason....anyone can get these sites...i got 2 my local ppl use they give everyone a # there is no money laid down its only called "credit" and its a great way to spend the next 6 months well more because college basketball but fun times....

only one person that i go through is semi-connected and that is due to the fact that he may lay off larger bets to some other people but it is a very lucrative side job for him and he is a roofer and the other guy owns a bar and has 2 partners and the biggest bet per game they will take is 1k...that one is more allegedly friendly not trying to hurt people financially

Under the 52 the rains coming its probaly pouring in PA nj now. Blounts out.

i hear what your saying but both the tokers are out and the NE defense has lost a bunch of good players and pitt throws it around really well as does NE and pitts d has new DC and scheme not sure if they have best personnel...should be good game even if it rains in boston....

and i do not know what rackets are going on down in s philly but sportsbook def is one and it gets amped big time this weekend esp w the birds on monday nite away as faves.... ppl could get in a hole real quick and try to get back on the eagles monday... local sports radio guy says he has the falcons all day... i dont see it

Sad to see you go C. Though I'm not far behind. Boards getting tiring. Best, Cheech. Don't be a stranger.



Cooks trolling regards Philly just grates MH.

And it was more to illustrate Phillys markets. As Vegas says, it's a big place.

Cheech, you're leaving too AND Sonny may follow you...

Don't go.

The Philadelphia/South Jersey area is plenty big for the family. But it is a basically street operation at this point, ie no significant involvement in labor/business racketeering but mainly the traditional street rackets. What they do have going for them is a fairly consistent recruiting pool which will help stave off attrition.

Ivy is right like all ways

This is total speculation and quite frankly an effort to ramp up the discussion quality, but I actually think that the Philly Fam is more involved with unions than people might think. Now, I'm not saying it's on the level of Bruno/Scarfo years or even close to New York levels, but I have a few reasons to believe there's some pretty substantial activity and involvement. Would love to discuss if anyone has any constructive thoughts on this topic or anything to add?

I don't take the weather into consideration for over plays in foxboro. If you look in the past it never slows down any offense there.

Drive by posting. Gonna pop ALL CAPS in yo ass.

I see what you did there

I'm all over New England tonight, grabbed it when it was at -6.5

I pretty confident NE will win by 2 touchdowns. Which is why I didn't bet. I've been a mush lately. So what I'm saying is take the Giants getting 6 Sunday night.

What reasons/unions would those be?

Good grab

Yup!! $$$$

damn lucked out on grabbing it at 6.5

Thought it was 7 or 7.5

Good thing Pitts kicker was so terrible

As soon as I saw it briefly drop down to -6.5 earlier in the week, I was all over it. It was -7 and -7.5

I must have the wrong site, i typed in gangsterbb and got espn

lost was on the over but also had western kentucky over so lost the juice anyways...nfl has no logic...steelers running ball down pats throat then do a reverse pass? CMON

joey had a big opening day kickoff at his place in boca last night

on the Merlino's Facebook page they just posted a picture of Skinny Joey in a pink shirt standing out in front of Merlino's with another guy I can't identify (I'm thinking he may be the GM of Merlino's)

I had over 51 for $500 but I got down on over 26 2H for $300 so I minimized damages. I know I made the right play, on to the next one

you and vegas call it.. philly is one of the biggest cities and only ny an la have our suburban population density.. from south jersey to philly is apx 70 miles.. not to mention jersey surburbs in jersey like Washington twp.. in pa the deleware County and Bucks counties together are bigger than philly it self by farr.. And Remember the guy who wasn't in the mob that gentleman gambler? when the fbi raided his house they dug up plastic pvc pipes in his yard full of Big time $$$... I believe he was from blue bell pa.. all that money from one thing only gambleing... wow just sports betting and numbers prove to generate millions..

NOPE I know for a fact they aint got NO involvement with any union.. if they are the have a problem with me than.... ! fact not in any union what so ever.... uncle joe got his money from an independent trash company owner.. NOW let me repeat myself one more time.. the pathetic philly mob aint involved with any construction man and their trade union ie plumber bricklayer ironworker carpenter hvac... tooo many guys like me around also.. we find out it will b over for them, fact.. if the police don't arrest them.. I will personally take it to a fire and maneuver level..

Het Dante, if you go to his restaurant web site check that wine selection merlino got.. reminds me of band of brothers.. when the Army Easy company took out hitler and raided his palace.. remember that wine champagne and alcohol hitler had.. he had tons of shit and some expensive stuff also.. well merlino has one hell of a wine selection himself.. that selection he got is worth $$$..

I have to agree. I don't see any evidence for really any involvement in labor unions by the family. Certainly not anything significant. Lou Fazzini had to go to the Gambinos to try and get a union membership.

Traditionally the family was never a union powerhouse. It had some ties to the Roofers Union and the Bartenders Union even before legalized casino gambling in Atlantic City. But their biggest union clout was probably through HEREU Local 54 during Scarfo's reign. And even then they had to give a piece of the Local 54 money to the Genovese family.

@Marine- you must not be in the Laborers Union 332... The Statens have been with the
Mob since the Scarfo days...

http://articles.philly.com/2004-04-18/news/25364669_1_mob-boss-joseph-skinny-joey-merlino-mob-ties

You've also got the Stagehands which Ciancaglini has by the strings. You've also got Ray Wagner and those guys down at the Convention Center... You ever hear the kind of stuff that's going on down there? Would love
To hear your thoughts on that for starters.

You're speaking of Joe Mastronardo and his son Joe Jr. All his clientele were high end, they didn't take bets that were below 10,000 dollars. They weren't in anyway Philly LCN affiliated and I don't think they were ever kicking up to anyone in that organization. They also never threatened their clients, if they were late or missed out on paying up. If a bettor with them couldn't pay up when he lost, they simply stopped taking their bets. That penalty alone was enough to keep most clientele upstanding, as once they were exiled from the Mastronardo's bookmaking joints, there was only one alternative and that was the cheaper, less reliable and more violent Philly Mob.

The Philly guys werent and still arent able to earn like the Mastronardo's did in bookmaking, they don't have the bank to cover those high end bets, I think. At least not in the Merlino era.

Yeah I think you're right. Nicky Crow and the Scarfo guys tried to shake
Down Joe Vito in the 80s and couldn't make it happen. Joe Vito doesn't want anything to do with the mob... Too much heat and you're right he's taking huge bets mostly white collar types not $100 street guy bets and he's got s national network not just Philly...

he has the rep as someone who is very underground meaning its hard for the mob to find him the crow said they could never find the guy very smart most bookies not so lucky look at all those bookies who were ruined by joey merlino

I think he had a NY connection (not that he was connected) but a family friend, relative from not sure which but it was mentioned somewhere on this board one time that shut the crow and others down.....pretty sure the feds dug up his yard and found millions buried around his mansion up on the main line

Lol @ anyone letting me lay ten dimes on something and then only cutting me off if I didn't pay. I would free roll them so quick it would make their fucking head spin. Haha. There is nothing wrong with using a south philly book, who cares if it's "the mob", just pay them when you loose like a man should.

That's an interesting article but it leaves the present-day connection between the Philadelphia family and Local 332 rather unclear. I say "present day" because you pretty much have to go back to the 1980's to find significant ties between the two.




You had the recent strike at the convention center by several unions, and the center filed a civil RICO suit against the Laborers, but I don't recall seeing any mention of the mob in the articles I read about it. Where are you getting this about Ciancaglini and Stagehands Local 8?

The NJ carpenters union, OUTSIDE of NORTH JERSEY, MEANING south Jersey area, are NOT influenced. This is a fact. I heard that the 1050 at the convention center is all Italian and they may be influenced. Local 8 still does bust ups on non-union jobs and Coryell been around a while. never know. Johnny Docs local 98 has to be touched up a bit. He's been around forever.

Lots of work going on in Philly. The unions may be taking payoffs to look the other way on some of the smaller projects, especially in South Philly. But, that may be favors not actual LCN "control"

Laugh all you want. Fact is that's how the Mastronardo's ran their bookmaking business and they were successful because of it. A lot more successful than any of the mob affiliated bookies. They didn't need to use the threat of violence to get paid, then again, they didn't take bets from bums. They were international with their books extending all the way to Costa Rica.

You wouldn't free roll anything, because until you paid up, you wouldn't be able to place any types of bets with them.

I used to get ESPN magazine. There was an article in there about this sports gambler in Vegas who was the winningest in history, or some shit like that. It was last year or the year before. The article talked about metrics and probabilities, etc., the numbers behind gambling. How you need to win 54% of your bets to be successful. Stuff like that.

Anyways, the guy, this huge gambler who wins all the time; he had Joe Vito's broter on his payroll and the article specifically states that.

You can't compare those guys. The Mastronado's are professionals. A lot of LCN guys are great handicappers. But there a ton of bookies who don't even watch sports. Just play the sides to get ahead.

Different levels of involvement. it's like anything in life. You get out of it what you put into it.

Mike Chang Jr. Works for Iatse. Other than that I've never heard of any mob ties in the union.

Mikey Chang had a kid?

2 kids. A son and daughter.

nicky whip: Billy walters is probably the big time gambler in vegas you are talking about and your are right on with him using every niche or math formula that he can find from the whiz kids in ivy league schools to help him gain an advantage and win

@MERLINO Yup. here's a link. Thanks dude.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/...oversial-bettor

Another great gambler is Bob Voulgaris... the guys who win consistently are the guys who use metrics and their own advanced algorithms...

Math wins, "feel" loses.

Beat your bookie" Dom the dominator. Scores an odds.

Most mob wire rooms and Internet sites are offshore - Costa Rica, Panama, etc - as well and have been for some time. And the mob also has increasingly cut off dead beat gamblers rather than roughing them up. Neither were unique to the Mastronardos. It may have been a different clientele but there were/are books run by the NY families that dwarfed anything the Mastronardos had. And they weren't completely mob-free. They were laundering money through a Genovese associate in Florida.

The Mastronardo's were unique though, and pretty much all the sources have said so. They were unique for Philly. And there's no mob books dwarfing what the Mastronardo's did. Not in NY, not today at least. Theres not much sources of NY families in 2015, or even during the time when the Mastronardos were active, taking bets of 10 grand. And we aren't talking about the global mob, we're talking about Philadelphia. They weren't cutting guys off, they were beating guys up and threatening them, and they still do it today for loans and bets as low as $500. Like I said, the Mastronardo's were never kicking up to the Philly family, or any other one. Laundering money through an associate of the Genovese still isn't kicking up, it means they were using that associate to clean their illegitimate profits.

Another thing that most sources on the Mastronardos had them being unique for, in regards to Philly, were it's off shore betting accounts and international clientele. So the Mastronardos were unique in many aspects.

first of all you're right, they dealt with whales way out of my league. Second of all I said LOl because if someone were to allow that with me I would free roll them. Maybe you don't understand what I meant. I would bet and collect until I had a bad week and stiff them. No one posts money with bookies in real life, maybe strangers over the internet who use pay pal. So I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Also, nobody's saying these guys didn't make more than south philly, I'm not knocking them or their business. But as I said, lol @ someone letting ME lay 10,dimes on a game with no leverage to collect besides cutting me off, there are other books where yiu can lay ten dimes. I would free roll them so fast it would make their fucking head spin.

Also guys this is 2015 even the goons use pay per head sites and wire rooms in Costa Rica. Who doesn't?

Its not just the sites though, and this wasn't in 2015, Joe Vito and his son was doing this from the 80's, all the way to about '06. Like I said, it wasn't just the sites, but their clientele was also from foreign countries and other states in the US.

No one is saying Joe Vito isn't the man buddy. I just personally found it comical

You need to do your research. I can give you several examples of sports books run by the NY families that had much larger handles than the Mastronardos ever did. And that includes bettors making large bets.

Notice I'm not talking about Philadelphia, though even there offshore wire rooms and Internet sites are also used. Those things are now the standard across the board wherever you look and weren't unique to the Mastronardos.

And I didn't say they were kicking up to anyone. But they weren't completely free of any ties to the mob either. Furthermore, if you look at sports betting cases in the Northeast, the Mastronardo operation - especially of their size and ability to stay largely independent of the mob - was very much the exception to the rule.

Good night last for Philly books........

Nah, I knew what you meant in the last post you made, but I was so caught up in typing my response I forgot to say I misunderstood the first time.

That's what I've been saying the whole time though. Hence, one of the reasons why they're unique. And if you feel like it, is it possible to point me out to some links of NY families and any others taking 10,000 bones in sports betting? I mean from like the early 80's through the late 90's, because that was pretty much the prime of the Mastronardo's business before they got indicted during the new millennium. Not examples from like the 30's & early 70's, the heyday of the mob before RICO. You are right though that using off shore rooms has become the thing nowadays, pretty much the norm. But back in those days I was referring to, few families had the international sports betting clientele that the Mastronardo's had.

First, I'm not sure why you think I would need to go back to the 1930's to the 1970's. If there's one racket that hasn't skipped a beat, and maybe even gotten bigger, for the mob it's sports betting.


Second, let's look at the Mastronardos.

Back in 1983 their operation was busted (see link below) and 10 people total were indicted. Typically, law enforcement will document how much money is being wagered with the operation they're looking at over the course of the investigation, whether it be the total amount wagered over that time and/or the average handle in a day. In the case below, the Mastronardos were averaging about $80,000 in bets a day. If you multiply this by 365 days a year, it comes to $29,200,000. So that's where the article got the "$30 million a year" total from. You'll also notice later in the article that another investigation said it was a "$50 million dollar a year operation" - later cited by the Pennsylvania Crime Commission in 1990. Whether it was $30 million, $50 million, or somewhere in between, almost always the numbers we see are the amount in bets the operation is handling. Not the net profit.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/04/20/Rizzo-kin-surrenders-on-gambling-charges/2298419662800/

I should also point out that sports betting is obviously seasonal, so the amount being wagered with an organization isn't going to be even all through the year. The fall, when football season is going strong, is going to be a lot busier than the summer. So that does call into the question the practice of simply taking the amount wagered over the course of an investigation and than multiplying it over a 12 month period to come up with a yearly figure. But for comparison purposes will go along with that for now.

More recently, the Mastronardo operation were busted in June 2006 and 18 people were charged. You'll notice the article below cites "$2.7 million ring." Why the difference compared to the 1983 bust? Well, in this case, they're simply talking about how much money was confiscated from the Mastronardos. Completely different than however much the operation was handling at the time. But it was claimed the operation was servicing approximately 1,000 bettors.
http://articles.philly.com/2006-06-01/ne...bling-operation

They were busted again in August 2012 and 16 people were charged. Once again, 1,000 bettors was cited and the press release below says the operation was "generating millions of dollars a year." The amount wagered in this case dealt with January 2005 to January 2011 - a 6 year period. Law enforcement sought to confiscate $6.3 million in profits the operation generated over that time frame. Averaged out, that would be about $1 million a year in profits. From what I've seen, the net profit in a bookmaking operation is anywhere from 5% to 10% of the total handled. If that was the case here, the operation may have been handling anywhere from $5 million to $10 million in bets a year.
https://www.fbi.gov/philadelphia/press-r...th-racketeering


Third, before even looking at New York, let's look at some Philadelphia mob operations.

Back in 2001, 21 people including soldier Joseph "Mousie" Massimino were charged with running a $30 million a year operation. This figure was likely arrived at the same way the $30 million a year figure was arrived at for the Mastronardos above - by taking the amount wagered over the course of the investigation and framing it within a 12 month period.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2001/feb/10/nj-charges-bruno-soldier-20-others-with-roles-in-g/

More recently in 2008 was the Borgata gambling bust that involved 24 people including Anthony Nicodemo, Stephen Cassansanto, and others. It was alleged the operation handled $60 million in bets over a 20 month period. In a 12 month time frame, this would be handling $36 million in bets.

So, as we can see, even in Philadelphia there have been mob gambling busts that have rivaled what the Mastronardos were doing - past or present. It may be a different clientele, to some extent, but it's not like the Philly mob is just a bunch of pikers only taking $50 bets at the local bar.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases08/pr20080410b.html


Fourth, now let's look at New York.

When looking at gambling busts involving the NY families, there are obviously very many. We also see a wide range of figures, which suggests that these figures were arrived at in any number of ways like we saw above. But let's look at some examples.

In January 2001, 11 people tied to the Colombos were busted for running a $30 million a year gambling operation. Apples to apples, an operation that seems to rival the Mastronardos at their peak.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/da-probe-nets-11-illegal-bet-ring-article-1.909296

In March 2002, a big Bonanno operation was busted that involved Anthony Graziano, John Zancocchio, and others. It was alleged it took bets (including from high rollers) and handled $280 million in bets a year. Even if we, again, call into question the methods of how this figure was arrived at, for comparison purposes this operation was bigger than anything the Mastronardos had.
Bonanno bust

In January 2005, an operation tied to the Gambino and Genovese families was busted and 17 people were charged. It was said that $200 million in bets were placed with the operation over the course of the investigation. It was said this operation was open only to "high rollers" like doctors and lawyers. Some would bet up to $80,000 in a single day on horse races.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2005/jan/14/lv-man-arrested-on-charges-of-illegal-gambling/
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/gambling-ring-members-charged/7686/

Many will recall the Lucchese gambling bust in Jersey in December 2007 that had 32 people charged. It was alleged that $2.2 billion in bets was placed over a 15 month period. Records showed that one high roller placed over $2 million in bets over a 2 month period.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/lo...-ring/28945147/

In October 2009, the Luccheses were busted again. Among the chrages was running a sports betting operation that handled $400 million in bets over the 2 year investigation.
http://abc7ny.com/archive/7043142/
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2009/10/01/f...amily-lucchese/

In October 2009, 30 people were charged in an operation tied to the Gambinos and Genovese. It was alleged that $567 million was handled in a 28 month period. In a 12 month framework, that would be $243 million.
http://www.osga.com/artman/publish/printer_7303.shtml

In May 2011, an operation tied to the Gambinos had 38 people charged. It was alleged it handled $178 million in bets over a 32 month period.
http://m.timesnewsweekly.com/node/29095#.VfnA8NK6et9


So finally, any way you want to slice it, there are mob bookmaking operations in Philadelphia that have rivaled the Mastronardos. And in New York, there are many that have been considerably bigger.