How do wiseguys fair on the STREETS....

A lot of prison stories of getting their ass kicked but how about on the streets. Any stories of wiseguys taking a beating from civilians. Most wiseguys do not walk around with guns and a lot are out of shape middle aged guys who walk around thinking they're tough.

One story that comes to mind is that Gambino soldier who got beaten to death by a neighbor. And Gotti sent Gravano along with some guy from Jersey for retribution

Apart from wise guys taking a beating from civilians, how about each other? Bobby Boriello famously beat Preston up and the Gambino's wrongly assumed his death was at the hands of Preston.

Considering how many mob guys are in prison, and how often they go to prison, it seems there are relatively few stories of them being attacked. As I've said before, while they may not have the prison clout one sees in Goodfellas, it's not like they are easy prey either.

Don't know about beatings but that ex-cop shot Gambino capo Carmine Sciandra.

Thanks TG, I just looked up the story. That was some story I tell ya!!

Don't ever mess with a man's daughter.

Do u know the outcome? Story only goes so far as saying Sciandra refused to cooperate but the ex cop turned himself in plus there was CCTV footage so even without a cooperating witness the evidence speaks for itself

There's a story of that ex cop who helped a Genovese capo in Jersey while he was being attacked by two black guys. I forgot their names, but then the ex cop began working for the capo and was an informant. Apparently the Genovese guys knew he was an ex cop but didn't care.

shows their stupidity, can't see that happening years ago.

It was actually in the late 80s, if I'm not mistaken.

Andy Gerardo, here we go. This is a quote from his Mafia Wiki page.

"In the 1980's, Gerardo's crew was infiltrated by an ex-cop named Mike Russell, who one day by chance while driving down Bloomfield Avenue in North Newark saw two young guys attacking an older one. Russell went to the aid of the older man, driving off the attackers. He later discovered that the guy he'd helped was Andrew "Andy" Gerardo, now head of Boiardo's old gang. Gerardo invited Russell into his hangout, a coffee shop on the avenue just a few steps from a monument to Christopher Columbus and the Italian American contribution to America. There, Russell met other key members of the crew, who treated him like a hero and befriended him.

Russell then contacted a friend of his in the state police, who asked him to begin surveillance on the crew. Incredibly, the mobsters invited Russell to move his oil delivery business into a storefront adjoining their Newark headquarters, figuring he was friendly, and from there the investigation took off. But unbeknownst to the state police, Russell enlisted a cameraman and began his own videotaping of the crew, which provided most of the material for a documentary entitled "Confessions" which aired on HBO."


I've also seen the HBO thing and it wasn't THAT bad.

It was Carmine's brother who felt up his daughter and Carmine got shot for it

Sciandra didn't go after the guy, maybe he was told not to, who knows.

That was Franscesco Oliviero who murdered a member of the Cherry Hill Gambinos. I don't think they were civilians. The Oliviero family were drug dealers.

Yeah, Oilvieri murdered one of John Gambino's crew, not a made guy though. Gravano, Lorenzo Maninno, Ozzie Stantini & Bobby Bisaccia were the hit team, Bobby was the shooter, that got him made.

Robert Bisaccia a.k.a "Bobby" "Bobby Cabert" "Bob Romano"

http://mobstars-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/RobertBisaccia.gif

I don't see a wiseguy going around making trouble with random people. But I'm sure hey stick around what the know, especially if they're made. If they're made, they're known... And by known I mean by the Feds, so I'm sure they're more careful to get caught in a street brawl or something along those lines. And danger doesn't necessarily come from your physical ability. But from the crew you run with or your capacity for violence be it with a weapon or your hands, which for made guys is probably the former.

You don't put your hands on a made guy.

Carmine Sciandra got SHOT and the the shooter lived!

was the ex cop after carmine got shot given bail? because if he was locked up and then convicted then they might have not got the chance to kill him i know he is out now but carmine might not want the heat of killing him over something which happened ten years ago

Charges were dropped as Sciandra refused to cooperate.

i am supirsed by that then maybe sciandra did not want to kill him i dont know that is suprising because i always thought even in todays mafia that if you raised your hands to a made guy a capo espically you would be killed look at what happened to dom cirllos kid nick

You're not hearing me Tommy: You don't put your hands on a made guy! LOL.

Let us know how that goes.

@TheMafia

You've got to remember, Sciandra came up under Tommy Gambino, relatively non-violent crew, Tommy got him his button in 1986. Big earner but non violent approach just like his mentor, maybe he didn't want the heat or maybe the Gambino admin told him to drop it, who knows.

JG Jr. got stabbed a few years ago.

I wonder what happened to that guy.

Bruno up in Springfield got shot by a an independent bookie/barber and no retribution was ever made.

There's a bunch of turkish gangsters that run the local drug trade, plus probably import/ export, run card games, etc

I know nothing about Turkish OC and beat up one of them over a decade ago. Random neighborhood fight

Now- my point is, if you've never heard of a "made guy" his badge only goes so far. The guy I smacked up could have been a turk Roy demeo for all I know...

How about they just throw the guy a beating to save face

I think it's very rare for a mobster to get attacked especially a made guy sure on a very rare occasion it might happen but it almost never happens.

What makes u think that? Like I said in an earlier post, most made guys are middle aged out of shape/ on a power trip

Inside their neighborhoods I can imagine they're pretty safe but wiseguys like to drive all over the city. And road rage is very common. I don't think the average tough guy non LCN related ie blacks or Hispanics give two damns

Huh? Bruno was killed on orders from NY. And the guys behind it (Tranghese, Arilotta) were members.

Pretty sure he's talking about when Bruno was shot by Vito Ricciardi, but Bruno was wearing a bullet proof vest.

Thats exactly why they don't go into these neighbourhoods you won't see a wiseguy at some housing project they don't go into these areas because you are right they won't know who they are but most groups respect and fear la costra nostra even in prison they rarely get attacked there is fights every day in prison and when a mobster gets hurt all of us talk about it shows how rare it is mobsters stick to themselves they don't associate with other groups its why there is no confrontation in prison and on the streets they just don't mix. Mobsters have there own way of doing things plus anyone big time knows a mobster its why the five families have thousands of associates.

The only group to have confrontation with the mafia that I can think of is the Albanians and look at how that turned out they had that meeting with arnold and the gambinos and they backed down they knew the mafia is too strong to be fucked with and the feds recently said that just before the Albanians had been arrested the lucheses had been planning on whacking all the Albanians in so the feds arrested the Albanians early so there would be no violencen

vito was hardly a civilian

More the reason to retaliate then

The Pagans used to push the mob around back in the 80s and 90s when they weren't working with them. That relationship was schizophrenic to say the least. But they weren't exactly civilians...

Not sure that Pagans pushed the mob around, but they definitely stood up for themselves, which in a way doesn't really show that the LCN is weaker than its thought to be. Any criminal organization or individual can be left alone if they take a stance, but many fail to do so.

"Push around" was used more for effect than accuracy. Their problems were usually started by the mob with disrespectful behavior and the Pagans who ended things. Keep in mind, in Philadelphia/Delco/upstate, the Pagans used to have a more fearsome reputation than the mob years ago. They were chopping up bodies and paying off cops all at the same time. Alot of sick guys going through the ranks at the time.

Im curious to why Bruno never retaliated against Vito. I mean the guy was a capo and some random bookie tries to kill him, seems pretty emasculating.

theres a bunch of pussys who are made guys. would you call them a pussy? no theyd have their boys beat ur ass while they get in sucker punches. but one on one? thats why theres no such thing as one on one in the mob.

the sciandras were labeled as weak after the shooting. the shooter sided up with the bonannos and they protected him at a sit down. sciandras settled for cash and it hurt their reputation (so ive heard). imo bad play on carmines part, im all for non violence but shoot my brother sit down or not. guys gonna get hurt. its just whether its green lit or on the sneak. either way its the street move.

Good info Skinny, are Sal and Pete made?

thanks tommy. neither, only carmine got made.

Mobsters, like the rest of the population, are a mixed bag. Just like with the general population, you have guys who are tough, strong, talented, capable, etc., and then you have guys who are not. You also have many that are in between the two extremes. Some guys are more brain than brawn; some guys who have no brawn or toughness at all; and then you have guys who are basically just toughness and brawn.

That fight you had with that 'mobster' could have turned out a number of different ways. Using one example like that really proves nothing overall; it just proves that on that particular day with that particular guy, you prevailed. You can't really extrapolate out from that one instance to arrive at some general consensus about how tough or not tough the average mobster is.

Most organized criminals (I think?) are not professional fighters or strongman competitors who are known for their elite-level fighting skills or herculean strength. They are, however, known for being violent, vengeful, and willing to use violence and mayhem to get their way. I doubt your typical mobster is going to be afraid of some neighborhood street tough or even some pro fighter.

Winning hand-to-hand fights is not how organized crime exerts its influence.

I always have to laugh at self-described tough guys who think that being able to kick someone's a** in a fight has any significant meaning or that physical prowess is the end-all, be-all of anything. If it were, every guy in a position of power in the world, whether a legit guy like the President or a underworld guy like a mobster, would be the strongest, baddest fighter walking the planet. And that is never the case.

Obama, like most world leaders, is a pencil-neck geek. As are many of the underworld leaders. I doubt Carlo Gambino was ever in an actual fight. The same for Castellano and many others.

I think John Gotti Sr. would be a tough guy to fight, probably much tougher than his muscle-bound, steroid-infused son Junior, who, going by everything that I have read and heard about him, was more of a fake tough guy, trading off the name and reputation of his dad and uncles.

John Alite was/is obviously a very capable guy. I wouldn't want to fight him even now, and he's like 52/53.....

But I get what you are saying in a larger sense. Many of the mob's powerful leaders are not powerful in a physical sense: they are often older, deconditioned, out-of-shape guys who get little more exercise than walking to and from the social club. A sedentary lifestyle, advanced age, and a diet rich in cannoli's and pasta does not lend itself to being a physically capable guy. But still, there are exceptions. Even an out-of-shape guy can be a tough fighter. And it doesn't take much energy or strength to set someone up and pull a trigger.

Yep. And yet we have this adolescent thinking on these boards that it's somehow relevant.

2 very good points.

agreed. its not about toughness, it's about the willingness to kill

Yeah, it's strange how many guys reach a certain age and all of a sudden they develop this macho, tough-guy, 'I can take on anyone' sort of mentality. Not sure if that is just ego, hormones, insecurity, or just braggadocio.

really depends on the guy obviously. i mean i know some older aged people who're tough sob's.

Obama would kick Gotti's ass. He'd sting like a butterfly and punch like a flea.

One of my first jobs was working in a poolroom. There were some really bad ass guys in there, also some amazing pool players.

I once remember an older guy telling e that even though a guy is old, now remember I was about 16 at the time and this guy was in his 40's. Anyway, he said the older guy while might not be as in shape, would always be "meaner".

He said we all get meaner as we grow older.

I'm not sure if its always the case, but its just something to think about.

I argued about this recently with someone. He said that the biker scene from Bronx Tale could never occur these days. I protested a bit, but I can see that he is right. Or that the roles would be reversed.

I think the bikers, in general, make less money and have less sophisticated schemes. That said, they have far fewer rats and have "tighter" groups. They also have a rural component that the mob doesn't have.

Never saw bikers here in Brooklyn I never went looking for them either. In Manhattan on east 8 street yes hells angels. The other gangs saw here Latin Kings. There was a killing get in the 80s Latin Kings killed a few guys on 18 ave. I don't think anyone went after them either.

I had a little trouble with younger Latin Kings. They jumped my youngest son one night. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time plus he did not know how to choose friends back then. They stabbed him a few times with screw drivers and broke his arm with a baseball bat.

The thing about gangs is they all don't live in club houses. Older ones who are married and kids have apartments. The younger ones have families sisters, mothers who are in houses.

You can't kill all the gang members. But you can get to the ones who's families lives in the apartments and houses. Get to them they suffer even more then if you got to the gang members themselves.

Agreed footreads, aside from the East Village, I rarely see bikers in NYC. Philly, I hear is a different story.

Also, on Long Island the Hell's Angel's rival crew is very prominent. I think its the outlaws or pagan's. When I was on nautical mile almost every weekend, we would see them up and down the avenue. They holed up at a bar across the street from Hudson and McKoy ( part owned by the Luchesse's at the time).