Families out NY inductions since 2000

Sittite gave me this 2 name Salvatore Marino,Johhny Scarpelli that was made in the Patriarcas,anyone knows the names or when the induction cerimonies had take place after the 2000s in the small families ?

Thanks

Philly
Canalichio, Lou fazzini, dom grande,i think nicedmeo was made after 2000s,Vince Filipelli,Eric Esposito

Patriaca family Anthony DiNunzio jr

Someone put a list of the Philly ceremonies on this site before.

Ligambi said on the Skins tapes that he made 7 guys up until as of 2010.

5 in one ceremony, think it was 2003, Nicodemo, Staino, Canalichio, can't remember the others.

2007 ceremony was Fazzini & Esposito.

2011- Dom Grande, Sonny Mazzone, Joseph Servidio.

Do you mean Louis Dinunzio, who I think is Anthony's son? Or is this a different guy?

philly is probably the brokest of all the families outside of ny/chicago

I think Philly are definitely top heavy, the admin and capo's probably eat alright and the odd soldier but the rest would be better off getting 9-5's! I guess they don't know anything different though.

They are definitely a street level operation.

Come on tommy, you dont what the avg philly guys make anymore than cookcounty does(which is none...). We all know how you feel about philly by now, and posts like yours above are just getting redundant and are no better than cook's lame attempts at trolling.

I'm just going off some of the recent indictments Dell,. A lot of the Philly posters on here say the pot isn't big enough for these guys.

Hardly trolling, is it?

I read a lot on here about people basing families action or their ability off of recent indictments. But that's odd to me shouldn't it be somewhat backwards... Because if that is the case the Genovese are all but dead. But I do get it, indictment means action, it's just odd.

You clearly don't keep track of LCN indictments, because the Westside are regularly getting indicted, that's a fact.

By the way when I talked about the Philly indictments no being good, I meant in terms of the low level loans, Philly are clearly a very active family.

Boston guy Darrin buffalino read in 07 08.

Double.

Yup. I can show ya a list of Genovese indictments as long as your leg.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks indictments are not the best way to judge a family's activity - especially over the long term - doesn't know what they're talking about.

Yearh I meant louis DiNunzio he got made. I read somewhere that Anthony did not want louis getting favouritism so he made sure that he was not in the DiNunzio crew he got put in a another capos crew

Ny/Chicago?

Are you actually insinuating that Chicago can be mentioned in the same breath as NY?

if u didn't sum up all 5 families against one chicago family then yeah

the five families are in competition with 5 families, plus chicago has a recruitment pool

chicago has alot of land for people to roam with little competition and corruption

In competition with NY

Whatever recruitment pool the Outfit still has, it has stopped it's membership from shrinking by more than half over the last 15-20 years. All the of the NY families have kept their memberships stable over that time. Going by the latest estimates, the smallest NY family is 4 times the size of the Outfit.

Really " would have never thought that . There is a whole lot of room out there , and Canada just to the north .
Wow they need to step it up. Well unless it's LE holding them down ??

How many made guys approximately are there in Chicago because I would be suprised if it was below 25 I would think it would be between 30 and 35 but I don't know much about Chicago

Feds say 28, probably about 35 imo.

In their defense, they've always kind of bastardized traditional LCN (as least as Lucky and company set it up). Aren't made guys either 1) upper echelon, 2) middle management, or 3) well respected/ tenured soldiers?

I've always had mixed feelings on the shrinking hiring pool argument. There are tens of thousands of Italians in places like Philly, Chicago, Detroit, New England. I know that most are assimilated, but some kids will still want to be dope dealers (which seems like the future for alot of these street gangs). Made guys want earners so their envelopes get fatter. You'd think at some point they brush shoulders with younger crooks, maybe even college educated ones. So take a kid under your wing, school him on the gambling, other rackets, feel him out for loyalty (which is just as much a risk as anybody in the life these days), and if he works he works. They don't know the street cause they grew up in suburbs but seems like it can be taught over time. Plenty of wiseguys aren't from "the neighborhood".

That being said, when I hopefully open my own law practice some day, I won't be limiting my intern hiring to only full blooded (or close) Italians. Maybe it's harder in practice.

Chicago's peak for made guys was around 100, give or take. I'd say around 50 made guys today. Right on pace with all the other families. 50%.

Any sources for the 100 made guys Nicky? I thought Chicago were more or less 50-60 at peak with a shit load of associates.

Don't have a source for that, although I do remember reading it. I've heard as low as 75, but 50 would be a little low during the peak of it all.

Manocchio was at the helm of NE for over a decade, you guys think he made only 1 or 2 guys in his 13 year run, hardly.... There were 3 ceremonies 2000, 2003 and 2007....

I love it-he doesn't want his son to receive any special treatment....but he made him at like 22....cause everybody gets fast tracked like that -nothing special. Then after he signs the kid up for a life of crime he lets him follow some other guys orders.......Fucking joke.

ivy won't every understand that chicago doesn't have 100 hands in the same piggy bank

if giancana didn't have 80 guys then why would they need them now

ny makes people just to keep up numbers not because the guy deserved

Depends on what NY fam you're discussing. It is obvious that the Colombo's are their own tier of futility. Maybe the Bs too.

Yep, no rocket scientists in this club! Wasn't Albie Folcarelli from Providence made in recent years? Also, what about Giangrande? He's tight with Angelesco, isn't he?

Even if one wants to make an argument about the special situation with Outfit members, it doesn't change the the fact that the CCC had it at around 70 members (probably slightly inflated) in the mid-late 1990s. In the early 2000s, the feds released a list of 47 (if I remember correctly) members to the local press. In 2007, the feds cited 28 members remaining. Two other FBI estimates cited 25 and 30 members, which gives credence to the 28 figure. This all shows a clear decline in the family's membership.

And even if one wants to include associates, the latest estimates put them a little over 100 - or a total manpower of around 150 if you add members and associates. Contrast that with the smallest NY family (probably the Colombos) that have around 100 members and 500 associates - or four times the manpower the Outfit has. And, as I said, they and the other NY families have kept their membership stable.

The Patriarca family has most of New England to themselves, and the Bruno/Scarfo family has Philadelphia and most of South Jersey but that doesn't mean their operations can compete with any of the NY families. The greater NY metro area is so big that it easily accommodates the 5 families, who actually benefit in this day and age by having joint interests and working together rather than being a lone smaller family out on an island like the Outfit.

The Outfit could have everything west of Chicago to itself. It wouldn't change the fact the family is being widdled down by attrition and is closer to the handful of other small families remaining outside NY than it is to any of the 5 families.

When was the last known induction ceremony in Chicago? People have speculated Sarno made some some guys but who knows how legit that info is.

I think the decavancate family has around 35 made guys. I
This family has so many different estimates you have guys like ed scapo saying 70 which is just bullshit but what do you expect from a clown like that

The last known ceremony in Chicago was in 1988 but there's probably been others since then.

I'm not sure a lot of you guys are getting your figures.

The latest official figures (total members) -

Genovese: approx 200

Gambino: approx 200

Lucchese: approx 100

Colombo: approx 100

Bonanno: approx 100

New Jersey: 40-50

New England: 40-50

Philadelphia: 40-50

Chicago: 25-30

This stuff is getting played out

You'd think so but people keep pulling numbers out of their asses rather than looking at the facts...or God forbid...do some actual research.

the truth is Chicago at its height only had 25-35 made guys.

im taking this from frattianos book "the last Mafioso", he said then [1980] that Chicago was never more than 25-30 made guys. they worked with jewish associates.

also in Russo's "the outfit" he says the same.

so true guys like ed scarpo are giving people the wrong idea. He talks so much bullshit he thinks he is the next capeci

No clue as to the providence doings but Giagrande is not made. He is Billy's right hand and as deadly as they come but if they were going to make him they would have back when they made Buffalino. They have their reasons......

Hasn't there already been 20 million other threads devoted to this very subject?

This; I dont think people really understand Chicago was like a criminal syndicate unto itself, they never really were into the "made guys" sicilian tradition stuff. I keep telling people the chicago syndicate basically predates the commision. Like, I dont know about Chicagos made guys, and crews, and territory and shit, and Im from Chicago, lol, but I will tell you guys this; I know a guy who is like a grand nephew of one of Capones top liutenants, and there are times, when I talk to him I wonder what the fuck the guy ISNT INTO. Hes got stores,whores,molly, loud, yayo, I dont think there is a hot club in the loop that doesnt have some kind of outfit connection in some way.This guy has shown me custom made TOMMY GUNS,AK47 PISTOLS, supposedly made by military- special forces type Cia-contracted gunsmiths,like the same guys who maKE SHIT FOR THEM. The guys has ties to street gangs on Vincennes and in the hunneds,his brother was Huge in Coke too. There isnt a strip club in illinois that doesnt treat the guy like God when he walks in. Again, I dont know about the viability of the Outfit today, but I think they are so integrated with the state to the point where they are kinda indistinguisable from legit companies. i WOULD COMPARE IT TO GAMBINO Family TRUCKING iNTEREST IN THE CURRENT DAY, OR THE Profaci heirs liquor business. I mean ive heard some goofy stuff reguarding Chicago, ive heard people say Chicago was as strong as one of the Three weaker New York Families, THIS IS stupid enough to defy comprehension...

An example of what I mean, a relative of DADDANOS, HIS SON ACTUALLY GOT A 99 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT FOR JANITORIAL SERVICES AT THE AIRPORT, WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH OF THIS TYPE OF STUFF STILL GOES ON...

Also guys, remember the Rizzutos had what 19 guys on record? Was that an accurate depiction of their power?

And finally, that Joaquin Garcia guy basically said that the feds are not always reliable when it comes to their info.. And for the love of god, WHAT EXACTLY IS THE FASCINATION WITH THE PHILLY FAMILY? LOL

I'd have to think its frustrating seeing these other guys get made when he's done work.

The Outfit controlled the entire city in every sense of the word, from the Governor on down, they made judges etc, this was up to the time of Pat Marcy death..Gotti as boss was bribing jurors in the late 80's in hopes of getting off, Chicago was handing the judge a envelope. .1 made member of the outfit has rolled, bosses have flipped in NY..

As Franzese has said, most guys don't even earn, they are there for muscle, so numbers don't mean much, it's quality over quantity. .

The question is, when does it stop being an Outfit operation, per se, and strictly a legit company run by descendants of Outfit guys long dead? Once the inner core of Outfit members is gone, and it's shrinking rapidly, there really is no Outfit anymore and the things you are talking about are irrelevant.



Vitale testified there were 18-20 guys in the Rizzuto organization who were made Bonanno members. Not the entire Rizzuto organization itself.



It's always amused me when people use this argument - using a fed to discredit the feds. Any way you slice it, they are going to have far better and more accurate info - including on membership and associates - than anyone on these forums. Period.



Numbers mean a hell of a lot. It's precisely why the families in places like New Orleans, St. Louis, Denver, and San Francisco are gone. They never had the numbers to withstand attrition. On the other hand, the NY families - which have the biggest recruiting pools by far - have kept their memberships stable over the past 20 years. The Outfit can have all the "quality" in the world. It hasn't stopped their membership size from shrinking by more than half over the last 15-20 years. And even if you include associates in the picture, the modern-day Outfit is about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families.

I guess if you think having 150+ heads that are 3/4 retarded lumbering around dragging knuckles not earning as a good thing, okay then LOL..

You do realize that's not a completely accurate portrayal, right?

But judging by your name and your few posts so far, it's pretty clear where you're coming from and what your bias is. Sorry to break it to you but there have already been numerous Chicago posters who have done their best to defend the rep of their home town crime family.

Not a completely accurate portrayal? says who lol? Numbers provide security from other families but they also supply you with weak members who will flip at the drop of a hat, seriously,how many high ranking members have flipped? At what point is "this thing of ours" no longer this thing of ours ?? You can't turn the damn TV on without half a dozen guys from NY talking about the good ol days lol..

We can agree to disagree,I'm not sure what you see or who you know, but my knowledge doesn't stem from a book or a Internet chart..So if you know guys on the streets in Chicago, then they aren't telling you the whole truth. .

So you have street access to outfit numbers. Made guys. They tell you how many crews they have? How many buttons? Directly huh.

Ok then pal. This is our first rodeo.

LOL street access to outfit numbers

Gene is deadly-end of story. What surprises me most is that I've never heard of him really wanting the button....maybe he's happy w Billy as things are-they've stood through a lot of shit.

Chicago poster # 487 claiming he somehow has the real info on the Outfit and feels he has to criticize the NY families in order to defend it. How many times have we been down this road before?

Come to think of it, he may not be new at all. Maybe we're dealing with the same 5 or 6 posters coming back again and again under different names.

I get my info from the best sources available to anyone on these forums - indictments, press releases, articles from credible writers, etc.

Of course, this is where all of us get most- if not all - of our info. Even the very few who do have street sources. But for every one of them (I could count maybe a half dozen in my nearly 9 years on these forums) there are legions of those who simply pretend to.

Anyway, you can gave whatever unrealistic and outdated view of the Outfit you want. Doesn't change the fact that the smallest and weakest NY family will be around long after the Outfit is gone.

Ahhh a reader of books lol...I'm just a simple guy whose family business have served chicken and pasta to somebodies and nobodies for 60 years..

I stumbled upon this place because of a photo of a dear family friend...I do find it amusing that people are so absorbed into that life, like you Ivy, I bet you know not one connected person, and probably live in some distant place like Utah or Idaho lol..

It's okay though, if reading indictments and books from respected writers is what you do and all you have, have at it kiddo..You like hearing your own voice and that is quite evident, but seriously you need a woman lol..
I can hear Frank now....New York New York....

Listen Chef Boyardee, serving pasta to whoever affords you no special knowledge. That's what so many "local guys" like yourself can't accept. Today, with so much info available online, your zip code doesn't make you special on these forums. Those of us who do our research and pay attention don't need you and can usually spot the BS artists rather quickly. And I have no bias for NY like you obviously do Chicago. I simply look at the facts. But you're apparently not familiar with those.

He's trolling you. There is a 99% chance he isn't even from Illinois.

Chef boyadee. Lol boom roasted. Michael Scott.

kid does this mean if i start selling chicken and pasta in Chicago i will find out whats going on in the Chicago outfit

ivyleague it's unrealistic for you to think the outfit will just wither away

posting shit like "the last known making ceremony was in 1988"

you'd be a total buffoon to believe that's the last time anybody got made

i dont think he said that they will "just wither way" he is just saying they are weaker than they were

the last known cermonary was 1988 because there has only ever been one made guy to inform there has been probably loads of other cermonarys afterwords right up to today but we dont dont when they happened because there has been no rats

As usual cook has the reading skills of a 3rd grader.

I never said the last known ceremony in 1988 means they haven't had any since then.

And I don't know how cook can think the Outfit won't wither away. Well, unless you take into account his wishful thinking to the contrary. 70 members estimated in the mid-late 1990s. 25-30 members today (not to mention downsizing from 7 or 8 crews to 4) certainly show a decline in size. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow or next year but the trend is clear for objective observers who aren't blinded by a bias for the mob family in their hometown.

It will whither away, eventually. The question is how long it takes.

Outfit dreamers are funny though. Why are people so invested in their local criminal organizations? Do you enjoy labor corruption?

Research ahahahahahahahaha shouldn't you be tipping cows in podunk yousuregottapertymouth? Reasearch, that's cute sweetheart, problem is your knowledge is from a book, never believe everything you read, and try getting laid once in awhile poison ivy, it's okay, it's legal now!

You actually try and research the mob, which screams you have no real life, I own businesses, you own a library card which doesn't make you yoda.
tutto leccato come un finocchio lol, relax, your irrelevant and don't take it so hard cupcake.

I came here because of a photo of a family friend, you come here because you actually wish you knew these people lol..

@ivyleague

the outfit ain't the same as ny, they've never made alot of people

in the late 90s they only had 3 crews when u cite they're alleged higher membership

plus each soldier has their own vast areas to operate in as opposed to ny

I've read the articles back in the 1990s that talk about 3 crews - North Side, West Side, and South Side. However, with the benefit of hindsight and additional info since then, those articles don't appear to have been accurate.

And like I said before, even if you want to make an argument about the Outfit's special membership situation, you can add their current membership and estimated number of associates and they're about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families. In other words, one of the few small remaining families outside NY.

I dont think the things I was talking about were irrelevant; You are citing stuff youve read, IM TALKING ABOUT A GUY I KNOW, AND THIS IS ONE GUY. Example, this guy one day comes into my work saying hey you want a bottle of Tequila? Im going to be importing it, its going to be top shelf in all the hottest bars in the City. Now he says this with complete confidence like he KNOWS it will be a success, I dont know if its clout with the bartenders union or what you understand? My point is you will NEVER HEAR ABOUT THIS GUY. HE HAS A COUSIN WHO WAS IN THE OUTLAWS,ON PAROLE, GETS DUIS, NOTHING HAPPENS; THE GUYS I MENTIONED, HAS HAD LIKE 2 OR 3 HUGE GROW OP BUST, GUN CHARGES, HE KINDA CRYPTICALLY SAID HE JUST MAKES A PAYOFF AND IT GOES AWAY. Again, this is just one guy I know, I dont know jack about the OUTFIT as we know it, but just off this one guy, its naive to treat chicago like its the sticks...

I can see maybe New Orleans, but St Louis? Denver? Bad examples if u ask me, its like u may as well include Texas... THOSE SMALL CITY FAMILIES WERE MOSTLY CREATURES OF GEOGRAPHY AND OPPORTUNITY. Like, Italians or no, I dont think there is enough business in St Louis or Denver to support a criminal gang, beyond dope...so they would have been defunct over time anyway. I think families existed there cause there was business to be done, when there wasnt the families had no reason to keep going...Its like expecting a big mexican presence in Deleware...

Also the Rizzuto thing holds water; They, the Bonnanos, mistakenly believed them to be a "crew", when they were a family of probably greater strength. Shit, rumor has it Vito made a Spanish guy lol. Also, u got the COLOMBO AND BONNANOS AT 100 MADE GUYS, SO THEY ARE EQUAL WITH THE LUCHESSES NOW? Since when?
And the outfit, really had the politics thing sewn up, I think this more than anything people dont get, like the outfit was Much more powerful politicaly than you guys realize it seems, they did really own the city. Like even today there is a restaraunt, Park Grill in millineum park, they get free everything, power, water, trash, and it all links to companies with connections to Frank Roti, who in the 80s was an Outfit Made Guy on the Fuckin City Council, lol!
Im saying, this is one story that happened to get press, you wont hear about a lot of this insider shit...

Also guys, if you hear about made guys, in 2015 still fuckin making book on the corner, and not with some fuckin internet connection being run from Costa Rica somewhere, then they are doing something wrong; If they are still making juice loans, but not semi-legit like payday loans or pawn shops or something like not collateralized, they are bullshitting. What you consider, decay I consider progression. Like if you are looking for Outfit guys, I would stop looking on the corners, and look at coporate charters; These guys are not street guys anymore, more like mini Angelo Pontes; Look at the companies supplying liquor, linens, look at the trucking; Look at any city or state projects, see what companies get the bids then cross reference;Big companies like airports, conventions like McCormick,basically anything connected to the city or state is going to be clouded with clout...

chicago has been structured northside, westside, and southside since the 1940s

you don't know their current membership numbers from fbi quotes from 2005-2007

A guy you know? Well why didn't you say so? Stop the press, everyone. CabriniGreen "knows a guy." This really is a monumental day. Cause I've never encountered anyone on these forums who claimed they "knew a guy" and expected everybody else to just take their anecdotal info as gospel.

Sorry, I'll stick with credible info from the feds and known OC experts.



The Rizzutos were a crew of the Bonanno family before they started breaking away.

I don't have the Bonannos and Colombos at around 100 made guys. The feds do. Which makes them similar in size to the Luccheses. Though the Luccheses are in better shape but certainly not by light years or anything.

Although there is a Frank Roti, you are obviously talking about FRED Roti? At least get his name right before you go on some big rant about the power of the modern day Outfit (basing it on a guy who's been dead over 15 years now)



Do you have any examples of these or are you just blowing smoke? Virtually all mob bookies operate via the internet and offshore nowadays. It's the standard MO. Yes, we've seen examples of mob-connected companies getting contracts in Chicago in recent times. Doesn't change the fact that the inner core of made guys is decreasing pretty quick.



In the sense that those were the three geographic areas around downtown Chicag, yes. Obviously there couldn't be an Eastside (they would have needed some scuba gear at least). But while there were once 7 or 8 crews, now there are 4. There were never 3 crews as you seem to be insinuating.

And 2005-2007 figures from the feds are better info than anything you or your fellow Outfit fanboys on the net are going to come up with.

Luke's are definitely a tier above to colombos, in my view, regardless of family size.

Cabrini Green you're borderline trolling bro

they've had area bosses in hierarchy since there inception, north, west and south

the feds numbers were from 10 years ago.....

for the most part all soldiers run there own crew and so do associates

in ny everybody is huddled up trying to pinch off the same pie

Whatever area bosses they had before, it's changed. The most recent info was that, at one point, Andriacchi was overseeing the Northside while the now-deceased Al Tornabene was overseeing the Southside. But that's all beside the point because we were talking about the number of crews the Outfit had years ago and today. But you, with your ADD, can't stay on point.

Bottom line, no matter how much you wish otherwise, the Outfit has shrunk dramatically. 7 or 8 crews to 4. Even you can do that math. And so what if the Fed's 25-30 member figure was 8 or 10 years ago? What,you think they've increased in size since then? Yeah, sure. Then you woke up.

And even if we assume every soldier and associate has their own crew, which really isn't the case, it doesn't change the fact the overall size of the Outfit today is the same as the few other small remaining non-NY families. All of the NY families are bigger operations at this point, as much as that might break your heart.

Now you are into your feelings dude, look, some of us actually do know Some people, it's not as big a deal as you think. lIke the one poster, he knows the Bacianos family, IDont think its bullshit, why lie on the Internet, like for what? I mean you want the guy's name, and what stores he got on the south side and in little village, I feel like I said enough shit;
Oh and yeah Fred, Frank whatever lol, I read a lotta shit just like you.
And it's like you aren't listening to what I'm saying, there is SOME things going on, but you won't hear about them. Look the fed been looking at the genovese since chin died. Who's the boss? NO ONE KNOWS, not even your infallible Feds, mostly cause they are semi legit, so it's hard to make a case when no one is complaining, I'm talking collusion here. between corrupt business men, unions, whatever. jUst like crea with the luchs, he Don't need the illegal shit is what I'm saying. The outfit is like this, why put long standing relationships in jeopardy by making yourself vulnerable to a RICO. I think I finally figured out what I want to say; You are looking at MEMERSHIP NUMBERS to determine viability, when I think you should look at criminal activity. Like philly, if they got 200 members, it's still jv shit, in this day and age. You can't just disregard the rizzuto example, it's a clear example of the made guys thing being misleading.
Dude I'm from the chi and I thought the mob was done, until the family secrets trial happened, and I met this guy into all this shit. I know 2 restaurants on the north side that still operate video poker games, who do YOU think it is, the Latin Kings?
Like some guys believe a lotta myths. Let me pose a question; you know the numbers the Feds gave for each family right? Well can you tell me strenghth of say the colombos relative to the ndrangeta faction operating in NewYork? Is there one faction or more than one, and if so are they rivals or allies? The crew busted in Queens was rumored to be financed from the genovese, yet the gambino. And bonnano guys were connected to Cali, how does that work? These to me are interesting questions, not how many made guys are in the philly family, the better question is what are they into. That's the question you should be asking, not how many soldiers dude....

I'll quote John Roberts, "Burger King has employees of The Month, the mob had made guys"...

This is what I mean

Are we under the assumption there is a person who is constantly trolling pizza? Pizza you are taking the bait if that is the case. However it could be a real person probably an outsider who wants to feel special? I mean...if its the same person i feel kind of bad their life is like that. Technology ruins a lot of things for society and im in IT

Look at criminal activity? You mean like indictments? Nobody does that more than me. I'm the guy on these forums who has tried to compile every mob bust since 2000, including in Chicago. They are one of the sources of info along with press releades, OC reports, articles, books, etc. I leave the anecdotal street gossip to others and only pay attention to a select few. And I can get a better read on the Outfit through the sources I mentioned, which are available to anyone willing to do the research, than you and some "guy you know."

I've said before I would still put Chicago above the other small non-NY families simply because of it's involvement in things like trucking comoanies, the trade show industry, residual union influence, etc. However, the membership still matters because, regardless of what the Chicago mob is still into, once the membership is gone, the Outfit is gone. Thereafter all you'll have is associates (including family members) of a mob that once was. We've already seen this phenomenon in places like Pittsburgh and Cleveland where the families are gone but there have still been remnants involved in gambling busts.

And what do you mean the feds don't know who the Genovese boss is? They've had all the acting bosses before and after his death pegged and indicted all of them - Bellomo, Cirillo, Serpico, Muscarella, Nigro, DeLuca, Ianniello, Leo, etc. The reason no official boss has been named is most likely because - as many reports have said - the family has used acting bosses and ruling panels to run the family since Chin's death.

As for your questions about the Italian crime groups operating in the US, the Italian American families will always be stronger here because this is their base. The predictions about the zips taking over the American families never really came true. We've seen individuals rise to high level positions but these guys (Gambino, Cefalu, Montagna, etc) were hardly right off the boat.

Anyway, nobody said the Outfit is "done." But any objective observer can't ignore the clear decline. Probably no family has declined more from where it was at it's peak to where it is today than Chicago. The organization itself is much smaller and mostly doesn't extend outside Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County. Most of the political and union clout is gone. Several articles have said it's primary activity is illegal gambling - bookmaking and video poker machines. Little involvement in drugs. If you look at the evidence, the Outfit is closer to New England, New Jwrsey, or Philadelphia than any of the NY families.

@ivyleague

you said the outfit hasn't made anybody in 10 years like you could possibly know

then you said they only operate in cook county when the boss is from lake county crew

Listen Jamal, when did I ever say the Outfit hasn't made anybody in 10 years?

And I said the most of the Outfit's activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County.

I don't know if it's because you're just dumb, intentionally lying, or both, but you need to stop claiming I've said things that I didn't. Nobody falls for it. Most here see you for the Outfit fan boy/troll you are.

I don't take bait anymore. I won't even reply to a suspect member (possible troll) anymore. I rarely even open a PM.

I don't know shit about Chicago, and I don't claim to. I read very few books about the life. I post what I believe to be true about a general area that I've lived in for over fifty years.

I've said this before, but the easiest way to spot a bullshitter on these boards is when someone claims inside knowledge on multiple cities. Because for ninety percent of wiseguys, their world is no bigger than their own neighborhood.

Only response I will make, ONE, NO ONES TROLLING YOU, TWO, i TOLD THAT DUDE I WAS FROM CHICAGO AND DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE OUTFIT AS A FAMILY, BUT KNOW ONE CONNECTED DUDE INTO A LOTTA SHIT,MORE THAN JUST GAMBLING, HE TOOK IT PERSONALLY, OKAY WHATEVER. I LOOK MOSTLY AT LCN AND NARCOTICS, CAUSE IT SEEMS THE MOST MURKEY TO ME. i DONT KNOW THE BRONX, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN NY SO DONT EXPECT TO BUTT HEADS WITH ME ON ANY TOPIC HERE.THAT TROLL SHIT SOUND LIKE SOME NEW KIND OF FAG, SO PLEASE DONT MISTAKE ME FOR ONE OF THOSE LOL, I JUST LIKE TO DEBATE, RANT OVER, HAVE A GOOD ONE...

We're not gonna start with this shit again, are we? Does Geoff have to close the OC Forum for good? He started the boards without it and did fine and will do fine without it now.

Guys, you really have to stop this childish behavior. Or go elsewhere for the sandbox. Stop all this name-calling and "I know more than you" garbage. Just stop it and try to act like adults.

What do you mean Chicago has a recruitment pool? So does NY. and a MUCH larger one than that. Besides, Chicago doesn't make a ton of guys, they are a tight knit bunch.But Chicago only has what? 40 members?.

Shit, a hand full of crews in the smallest of the NY families would have more made guys than that.

I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to "Extortion." Look at who I quoted. If you take a minute to read it, you'll find it's clear that I was responding to him and not you. I don't know you, and given your unprovoked attack on me, I don't care to know you. Have a good day, sir.

The God's honest truth? For all that I post there, I think it's a good idea. It's getting ridiculous now. Five or six years ago, before the OC section took off, we rarely had a nasty argument here. You, Mig, Beth, Geoff, Turnbull, Cardi, Myself, and a dozen other quality posters who won't even sign on anymore could talk about anything civilly.

Another truth: This board gets mocked for its OC section, and I always say the same thing: It's not their fault. That site was built to be a movie/general discussion site, and the "Real Life" section accidentally morphed and took over the board. It's nothing but trouble and impossible to moderate. Get rid of it and you'll lose a dozen quality posters. But you'll also rid yourself of a hundred stupid troublemakers and trolls who have ten usernames each.

And this is coming from a guy who's been here nine years and posts in that section every day. If these trolls and troublemakers don't quit it, shut the fucking thing down. My two cents.

99.9 % True" but they don't have to do it that way .(this is what they want)
There are many ways to weed out idiots .
It does not have to be at the decent posters expense .

I agree. It's not fair for a few "rotten apples" to ruin it for everyone. But if this shit doesn't stop, that's exactly what they're going to do: Shut this section down.

I'm here a long time. I'm a cranky, repetitive pain in the ass at times. But my advice is ALWAYS with the best of intentions. And my advice here is for the assholes here to cut the shit, or we're going to lose this section. Believe it.

Agreed !

Why don't we just cut off the OC board for new members? Might be a compromise?

Not our call. SC and Geoff know what they're doing. Good idea, though .

Agreed " at least till the mess moves on ..

Just my two cents !

A little friendly advice you can choose to take or not: ease up on the all caps. It's considered yelling and makes you seem a bit unhinged. It's also hard to read and that doesn't help get whatever point you're trying make across.

Maybe like an well established member referral before admission?

Back in the day if a "Member" introduced you to another "Member" you were referred to as either "My Friend" or a "Friend of Ours".

No one ever talked "business" with a stranger

FWIW I'd be in favour of cutting the board to existing only. Or by referral.

@Helenwheels: Good advice.

i would also propose a closed section (now).. You only need to look at the first page and you literally throw up when you read the thread titles.. Just require 100-200 posts for access in the OC section -should be working! Just my honest opinion..