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Strongest families outside of New York

Posted By: Neo

Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 12:11 AM

I'm just wondering what LCN families are the strongest families outside of New York in terms of wealth and membership?

My personal picks in order:

#1 DeCavalcante family

#2 Chicago Outfit

#3 Philadelphia family

#4 Patriarca family

#5 Detroit family

Does that look right?

I believe the rest are too decimated to be considered a family.

Posted By: bronx

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 05:29 AM

bush's from texas,
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 06:37 AM

Originally Posted By: bronx
bush's from texas,


Yes I know, thank you.

I have edited my post for more clarity on what families I'm referring to.

Posted By: eggplant

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 03:24 PM

The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 03:30 PM

Originally Posted By: eggplant
The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.

Frankie Potatoes is the smartest boss. There's no doubt about that.
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 03:41 PM

Harry Riccobene is the strongest boss. He isn't dead, since Santa Claus can't die.
Posted By: eggplant

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/19/15 04:43 PM

Agreed
Posted By: Chance

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 03:03 AM

Isn't Harry The Hunchback dead? Thought he died just last year or the year before
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 04:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Chance
Isn't Harry The Hunchback dead? Thought he died just last year or the year before


He died 15 years ago. They are just playing around.
Posted By: LuanKuci

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 01:38 PM

jokes aside

buffalo: since it started to induct black guys with italian first names its ranks have doubled
Posted By: Mark

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: eggplant
The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.

Frankie Potatoes is the smartest boss. There's no doubt about that.

I couldn't disagree with you more, pizzaboy. Respectfully, of course.

Everybody knows that Spuds Santoro was way superior to Frankie.

Spuds had eyes on everybody. Nothing got past him.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: eggplant
The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.

Frankie Potatoes is the smartest boss. There's no doubt about that.

I couldn't disagree with you more, pizzaboy. Respectfully, of course.

Everybody knows that Spuds Santoro was way superior to Frankie.

Spuds had eyes on everybody. Nothing got past him.

LMFAO. I almost went with spuds instead of potatoes. I swear to God lol lol lol.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: LuanKuci
jokes aside

buffalo: since it started to induct black guys with italian first names its ranks have doubled




For real buffalo did or is a another joke ?
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 03:20 PM

For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Originally Posted By: LuanKuci
jokes aside

buffalo: since it started to induct black guys with italian first names its ranks have doubled




For real buffalo did or is a another joke ?


Fucking hell.
Posted By: Chance

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 03:49 PM

Without a doubt the stronest family outside NYC is the Des Moines IA family. So low key and under the radar that LE doesn't have a clue what they're dealing with!
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca



You also ranked the DeCavalcantes above the Outfit.
I wasn't sure how to rank those two.

Philly only has about 30 made men. The DeCavalcantes have around 50 made men.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 04:28 PM

the decavalcante must compete with the 5 family in north jersey and with philly in south jersey, have 4 crews while philly have at last 40 made men because after the 2000s many gangsters get out of prison to fill the ranks.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Neo
Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca



You also ranked the DeCavalcantes above the Outfit.
I wasn't sure how to rank those two.

Philly only has about 30 made men. The DeCavalcantes have around 50 made men.


No, Philly have about 40-50, same with Decavs
Posted By: DanteMoltisanti

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 05:23 PM

Recent article on state of the Decavs

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/wiretaps_prison_death_take_toll_on_mob_family_that.html
Posted By: SC

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/20/15 05:47 PM

.
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 01:28 AM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Originally Posted By: Neo
Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca



You also ranked the DeCavalcantes above the Outfit.
I wasn't sure how to rank those two.

Philly only has about 30 made men. The DeCavalcantes have around 50 made men.


No, Philly have about 40-50, same with Decavs


Philly sprang back good. I had them at 30.

I'm changing my list:

1. DeCavalcantes
2. Philly
3. Outfit
4. New England
5. Detroit
Posted By: TonyG

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mark
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: eggplant
The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.

Frankie Potatoes is the smartest boss. There's no doubt about that.

I couldn't disagree with you more, pizzaboy. Respectfully, of course.

Everybody knows that Spuds Santoro was way superior to Frankie.

Spuds had eyes on everybody. Nothing got past him.

LMFAO. I almost went with spuds instead of potatoes. I swear to God lol lol lol.


Yeah, I read Spuds Santoro has a thing with the Outfit and New Orleans. Sallie Spuds Santoro came up with video poker hidden in potato chip vending machines, which are now in all the clubs in Boise, Chicago and New Orleans. Word on the street is they are raking in the starch, and Frankie Potatoes is jealous at being cut out.

lol lol This thread had me laughing out. I hope I returned the favor.
Posted By: BarrettM

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 01:42 AM

1. Patriarca
2. Philly
3. DeCav
4. Outfit
5. Detroit


Coming from someone who stopped mob watching a while ago.
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 04:18 AM

chicago
philly/detroit/new england
new jersey

chicago, detroit and new england have their territories for themselves

philly and jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 04:53 AM

Originally Posted By: cookcounty
jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful

The DeCavs being the weakest crime family in New Jersey reminds me of how the Brits always lose at Wimbledon and The British Open. I have lots of Brit friends here, so don't shoot the messenger! grin

@Cook: I got the DVD in the mail Saturday. I already watched some of the "extras." I'm a fucking geek for production notes and DVD extras. It's gonna be too hot to go anywhere tomorrow because my Dad won't use the mini oxygen tank (on top of everything else, he has infrequent bouts of COPD during extreme weather).

Anyway, it looks like a perfect day for "Menace II Society." wink
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 06:12 AM

Originally Posted By: cookcounty
chicago
philly/detroit/new england
new jersey

chicago, detroit and new england have their territories for themselves

philly and jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful


The NY families have strong ties to Jersey, with plenty of Jersey guys in their families.

In Chicago, Detroit and New England the NY families have next to no guys there....or none at all.

I don't know much about Philly.






Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful

The DeCavs being the weakest crime family in New Jersey reminds me of how the Brits always lose at Wimbledon and The British Open. I have lots of Brit friends here, so don't shoot the messenger! grin

@Cook: I got the DVD in the mail Saturday. I already watched some of the "extras." I'm a fucking geek for production notes and DVD extras. It's gonna be too hot to go anywhere tomorrow because my Dad won't use the mini oxygen tank (on top of everything else, he has infrequent bouts of COPD during extreme weather).

Anyway, it looks like a perfect day for "Menace II Society." wink


Nobody can mix it with the five families and given Jersey's close proximity to NY, the DeCavalcantes don't have a choice but to yield to them.

Maybe that is not a bad thing because Stango was heard on wiretap saying: "Now we answer to the fucking Gambinos.....which is a good thing."
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 08:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Neo
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
chicago
philly/detroit/new england
new jersey

chicago, detroit and new england have their territories for themselves

philly and jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful


The NY families have strong ties to Jersey, with plenty of Jersey guys in their families.

In Chicago, Detroit and New England the NY families have next to no guys there....or none at all.

I don't know much about Philly.










It's what I just said,The decavalcantes must share the territory with the genovese and lucchese jersey factions that had more soldiers and power; plus two gambinos crew and a crew for the others families.

Philly must answer to NY,because all families out the big apple must answer to the 5 families,but Philly has the same soldier of the decav and was more free and powerful,and from the last 5 years more stand up guys went out and fill the rank and Ligambi rebuilt the family after 20 y of blood and chaos.

The patriarcas still strike fear but are only 30 made men between Boston and Providence

The Outfit had at least 28 made men was pretty active nad was focus on the white collar crimes with an alliance with the Outlaw mc for the street racket

The Detroit Partnership was the most stable and closed family out NY for me it's very charming both because a family whose territory consists only 20 percent of whites should have been dead, but they don't, through the use marriage between members and making new members only between those who are blood related.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 09:05 AM

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=852335#Post852335

In this threat I made this charts of decavalcante,philly,detroit and patriarcas.
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 09:11 AM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Originally Posted By: Neo
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
chicago
philly/detroit/new england
new jersey

chicago, detroit and new england have their territories for themselves

philly and jersey can't control their own states which is kinda pitiful


The NY families have strong ties to Jersey, with plenty of Jersey guys in their families.

In Chicago, Detroit and New England the NY families have next to no guys there....or none at all.

I don't know much about Philly.










It's what I just said,The decavalcantes must share the territory with the genovese and lucchese jersey factions that had more soldiers and power; plus two gambinos crew and a crew for the others families.

Philly must answer to NY,because all families out the big apple must answer to the 5 families,but Philly has the same soldier of the decav and was more free and powerful,and from the last 5 years more stand up guys went out and fill the rank and Ligambi rebuilt the family after 20 y of blood and chaos.

The patriarcas still strike fear but are only 30 made men between Boston and Providence

The Outfit had at least 28 made men was pretty active nad was focus on the white collar crimes with an alliance with the Outlaw mc for the street racket

The Detroit Partnership was the most stable and closed family out NY for me it's very charming both because a family whose territory consists only 20 percent of whites should have been dead, but they don't, through the use marriage between members and making new members only between those who are blood related.


You win.

1. Philly

2. DeCavalcantes

3. OutFit

4. Detroit

5. New England
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=852335#Post852335

In this threat I made this charts of decavalcante,philly,detroit and patriarcas.


Let no one doubt your dedication.

Nice charts. smile
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 09:29 AM

ST. LOUIS LCN FAMILY

Boss: ???
Underboss: Vincent "Vince" Giordano maybe boss ???
Consigliere: Giacomo "Jack" Parrino

Captain: Vincent "Shotgun Vinny" Cammarata
Captain: Frank "Big Frank" Palozzolo

Soldiers:

Fernando "Nondo" Bartolotta b.1957 (made in 1981 with Frank Palazzolo and Matthew Trupiano)
Joseph "Joe" Bommarito
Richard "Rich" Bommarito
Joseph "Joe" Cammarata
Angelo Copo (sicilian zip)
Benedetto Germia (sicilian zip)
Vincent "Vince" Giordano b.1938
Antonio Lopiccolo (active East Side St. Louis) b.1954
Anthony "Tony L" Lopiparo b.1957
Anthony "Tony" Olivastro b.1945
Phillip "Philly" Palizzola b.1952
Salvatore “Sal” Palizzola
Joseph "Joe" Panneri b.1963
Michael "Mike" Palazzolo b.1947
Anthony "Tony" Tocco b.1952
Joseph "Joe" Tocco (official in LIUANA Local 53)
Vincent Trupiano b.1950

Member died since 2000

Benigno-Michael
Biondo-Dominic Beaver
Biondo-Vito
Bommarito-Frank*
Bova-Anthony Lefty
Cammerata-Joseph
Castellano-James
Crimi-Joseph
Ferrara-Joseph*
Garozzo-Frederick*
Mazzuca-Gennaro
Mazzuca-Joseph*
Olivastro-Joseph Jnr.
Parrino-Anthony
Pisciotta-Joseph Joe P
Venizia-Thomas (suicide)
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 07:26 PM

That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

Detroit would be dead last on that list and that's if one even chose to include them at all. The next bottom one would be the DeCavalcantes. When I get more time I could break down the reasons for this and where New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago fit in.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.
Posted By: TommyGambino

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 08:00 PM

Furio at it again lol
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 08:03 PM

Lol, and Ivy always responds, like a robot. He can't help himself.
Posted By: NickyEyes1

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.

I can't stand the city of St. Louis. Although they do have a great ballpark and "The Hill" is one of the best areas for Italian food I've ever been to.
Posted By: LuanKuci

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 10:33 PM

imagine a civil war reenactment club

now replace the civil war with the mafia

that's today's detroit
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 10:51 PM

Originally Posted By: LuanKuci
imagine a civil war reenactment club

now replace the civil war with the mafia

that's today's detroit


Understood.

That does not paint a pretty picture.

Detroit are out.
Posted By: TonyG

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.


How true. The St Louis family is dead, only 4 left by my count.

PB - next time you are in St Louis, go take the AB brewery tour. I have not been in a few years, but they give you about 20 minutes to sample all the different products at the end of the tour, all free of charge. Same thing at Grant's Farm, the Busch family estate with its own zoo that is open to the public. Times have changed, and I have no idea if they are still doing it.

When I was 16, bleacher seats at the old Busch Stadium were $1.35.

Also, if you had the money, anyone could buy "a tasty cold Budweiser" (which Cardinals radio announcer Mike Shannon suggested that it was time for between every pitch). When I was a kid, a beer was $0.55 if my memory serves me. Regardless of age. I made about 2 million trips to the beer stand for my Dad, Grandfather and Uncles, so they would not miss any action.
Posted By: TonyG

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/21/15 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.

I can't stand the city of St. Louis. Although they do have a great ballpark and "The Hill" is one of the best areas for Italian food I've ever been to.


Agreed about the ballpark and the Hill, but I love my hometown. I have broken your balls about the Cubs before, but I am not going to this time. The new owners are building a very solid team, doing great things for the organization and I see the Cubs in the playoffs this year, and for years to come. It is about time Cub fans have something solid to get behind.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 12:55 AM

Detroit probably has about 20 made guys, but most of them are probably retired or semi-retired as they're older than dirt.

Chicago has fewer made guys than NJ, NE, and Philly, but probably more associates as the metro area is huge and they have it all to themselves. I think Philly has plenty of made guys but not so many associates. NE seems to be going the way of Detroit and Buffalo. There are still plenty of vices, but not so many reasons to belong to a crime family and risk RICO charges. NJ is a question mark. The pool of Italians is huge, but they have to compete with NY, which keeps them down.
Posted By: StLguy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 03:18 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
]
The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.


Well, here's an update...They don't own the breweries anymore, the were bought out by InBev a few years ago. Also, AB sold the Cardinals to the DeWitt family in the mid to late 1990s. I don't know what they charge now. I used to go to ballgames in the old busch stadium alot. I've only been to 2-3 since the new one opened 10 years ago. I just hate that stadium.

Also, the saint louis family chart is laughable. The only time that 'family' has been mentioned at all in the media in st. louis since the 1980s ended has been when an ex leader dies or when the old bosses family was being pushed around over a night club they owned (an that was only in print).

The major crime problem in St. Louis is black gangs. They are killing each other at record speed this year. No joking, STL is going to set a fucking record. Everyday there is another new story about some 20 something black kid getting killed. Just a few days ago 4 of them tried to assassinate an off duty cop, and that was in the one of the most upscale parts of the city (not the county). It's really getting bad in parts of the city.
Posted By: mikeyballs211

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 03:51 AM

Mulberry you really think Chi has fewer than 20 made guys? Im not questioning facts as reported but I just cant believe that historicLly powerful, well connected fam in one of the most corrupt cities if not the mostt in America only has 20 or less straightened out guys when I believe w Solly D they have their admin on the streets? But I also dont believe Detroit has the low number of made guys out there that others have reported..and thats not to discount more knowledgeable posters its just.in these corrup cities where lcn is not a major LE issue and they have full admins,on the street and multiple active crews that they dont have more than 20-30 guys that just doesnt add up im sure theres still some willing italian candidates in these areas..but just my 2 cents
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 04:21 AM

@mickeyballs


people dont realize how big of a pie the outfit has to dish out

nobody has to fight for shit because everybody has their own things going

hell the alleged boss of the outfit operates from a crew nobody knew existed
Posted By: NickyEyes1

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 05:50 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyG
Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

The only Mafia left in Saint Louis is Anheuser-Busch. They own the fucking breweries and they STILL charge $8.00 for a tall boy in a plastic cup at Cardinals games. And this was five or six years ago when I was out there for a Mets game. God only knows what they charge now lol.

I can't stand the city of St. Louis. Although they do have a great ballpark and "The Hill" is one of the best areas for Italian food I've ever been to.


Agreed about the ballpark and the Hill, but I love my hometown. I have broken your balls about the Cubs before, but I am not going to this time. The new owners are building a very solid team, doing great things for the organization and I see the Cubs in the playoffs this year, and for years to come. It is about time Cub fans have something solid to get behind.

No need to, I'm a Sox fan smile

But I agree 100%, the Cubs are on there way to become a top team in the next few years. I wish the same could be said for the Sox.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Furio at it again lol


Furio did it again ? yes but by mistake.I had found the chart, is I was checking the names and posted by mistake, make it up to my mistake, though I at least try to make some chart with little material I have, while you do not know who tease and criticize, I will put in my updated chart in the threat on small family, if you want go and give a look, otherwise patience.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 09:42 AM

Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
Lol, and Ivy always responds, like a robot. He can't help himself.


At the risk of repeat, I am not a troll or a Ivy alias, I am a person of flesh and bones.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: mikeyballs211
Mulberry you really think Chi has fewer than 20 made guys? Im not questioning facts as reported but I just cant believe that historicLly powerful, well connected fam in one of the most corrupt cities if not the mostt in America only has 20 or less straightened out guys when I believe w Solly D they have their admin on the streets? But I also dont believe Detroit has the low number of made guys out there that others have reported..and thats not to discount more knowledgeable posters its just.in these corrup cities where lcn is not a major LE issue and they have full admins,on the street and multiple active crews that they dont have more than 20-30 guys that just doesnt add up im sure theres still some willing italian candidates in these areas..but just my 2 cents


I never claimed Chi had fewer than 20 made guys. I'm going by evidence that Chicago has never made that many men and relied more on non-Italian associates. They have fewer guys sharing a big pie with the gambling and shylocking.
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
Lol, and Ivy always responds, like a robot. He can't help himself.


At the risk of repeat, I am not a troll or a Ivy alias, I am a person of flesh and bones.


Furio, no worries, I am just joking.
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
That St Louis chart is complete nonsense. Anyone who thinks that family still has 20+ members is out to lunch. More like 2 or 3 at this point.

Detroit would be dead last on that list and that's if one even chose to include them at all. The next bottom one would be the DeCavalcantes. When I get more time I could break down the reasons for this and where New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago fit in.


Have you found some spare time yet?
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca


Detroit - People often insist on calling the Detroit family "stable," as if little or no news means as much. Actually, it's more the opposite. The Detroit family is unstable because of attrition. 30 members estimated by the feds back in 2001. Around 20 members/possible members have died since that time. Do the math. Little else besides bookmaking at this point. As such, I wouldn't even include it on a list of families outside NY at this point. In my opinion, there are only really 9 viable families left - the 5 NY families and the ones below.


New Jersey - Latest estimates put them at 40-50 members with a relatively low number of associates - about 50 according to the 2004 NJ OC report. They would be at the bottom of my list simply because for decades they operated within a rather narrow nich - the Laborers Union and construction industry in New Jersey. Their "cash cow" (LIUNA Local 394) was put under oversight almost a decade ago, though only time will tell how successful it is. But with their decreased clout in the union and construction, the family is left grabbing what it can while operating among the bigger NY family crews also active in the state. The relative lack of significant cases since the massive busts in the late 1990's/early 2000's says more about the state of the family than the recent bust.


New England - Recent estimates put the family at 40-50 members and around 100 associates. You have at least a couple dozen in Boston. Another dozen in Providence. A few in Connecticut. I'm not sure why some are so quick to write this family off or put it at the bottom. It's been as active as any outside NY in recent years. It's main involvement in gambling in the forms of bookmaking and video poker. It's had the most involvement in drugs of any family outside NY, though all non-NY families are small players in the drug trade at this point. Extortion of independent bookies and strip clubs. They've still had some involvement in the Laborers Union.


Philadelphia - Recent estimates put it at 40-50 members and around 100 associates. The family is basically a street operation at this point, i.e. bookmaking, video poker, peripheral involvement in drugs, theft, etc. Not really anything as far as labor racketeering to speak of. As far as that goes, that would be reason enough to actually put New England ahead of Philadelphia. But what Philly has going for it is the surprisingly large number of young prospective guys it can replenish it's ranks with. And that will help stave off general attrition.


Chicago - Recent estimates put the family at 25-30 members and a little over 100 associates. That basically puts the Outfit as the same size as New England or Philadelphia, just with the member-to-associate ratio being a little different. It's involvement in gambling is the same - bookmaking and video poker. Very little involvement in drugs and only on the periphery. What one could argue still puts it at the top of the list of families outside NY is it's residual involvement in the Teamsters Union, interests in legitimate businesses like trucking companies, involvement in the trade show industry, etc.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 08:56 PM

Good summation Ivy.
Posted By: pmac

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/22/15 09:50 PM

you go notheast of nyc it will be the new england guys go south it will be the philly guys. west carmine ag. and the junkyard dogs.
Posted By: Neo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/23/15 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
For me

Philly (was rebuilted under Ligambi)

Decavalcante (although it must suffer the competition of five families and philly)

Outfit

Detroit (20-30 made men are enought in a city were the white are the 20 % of the population)

Patriarca


Detroit - People often insist on calling the Detroit family "stable," as if little or no news means as much. Actually, it's more the opposite. The Detroit family is unstable because of attrition. 30 members estimated by the feds back in 2001. Around 20 members/possible members have died since that time. Do the math. Little else besides bookmaking at this point. As such, I wouldn't even include it on a list of families outside NY at this point. In my opinion, there are only really 9 viable families left - the 5 NY families and the ones below.


New Jersey - Latest estimates put them at 40-50 members with a relatively low number of associates - about 50 according to the 2004 NJ OC report. They would be at the bottom of my list simply because for decades they operated within a rather narrow nich - the Laborers Union and construction industry in New Jersey. Their "cash cow" (LIUNA Local 394) was put under oversight almost a decade ago, though only time will tell how successful it is. But with their decreased clout in the union and construction, the family is left grabbing what it can while operating among the bigger NY family crews also active in the state. The relative lack of significant cases since the massive busts in the late 1990's/early 2000's says more about the state of the family than the recent bust.


New England - Recent estimates put the family at 40-50 members and around 100 associates. You have at least a couple dozen in Boston. Another dozen in Providence. A few in Connecticut. I'm not sure why some are so quick to write this family off or put it at the bottom. It's been as active as any outside NY in recent years. It's main involvement in gambling in the forms of bookmaking and video poker. It's had the most involvement in drugs of any family outside NY, though all non-NY families are small players in the drug trade at this point. Extortion of independent bookies and strip clubs. They've still had some involvement in the Laborers Union.


Philadelphia - Recent estimates put it at 40-50 members and around 100 associates. The family is basically a street operation at this point, i.e. bookmaking, video poker, peripheral involvement in drugs, theft, etc. Not really anything as far as labor racketeering to speak of. As far as that goes, that would be reason enough to actually put New England ahead of Philadelphia. But what Philly has going for it is the surprisingly large number of young prospective guys it can replenish it's ranks with. And that will help stave off general attrition.


Chicago - Recent estimates put the family at 25-30 members and a little over 100 associates. That basically puts the Outfit as the same size as New England or Philadelphia, just with the member-to-associate ratio being a little different. It's involvement in gambling is the same - bookmaking and video poker. Very little involvement in drugs and only on the periphery. What one could argue still puts it at the top of the list of families outside NY is it's residual involvement in the Teamsters Union, interests in legitimate businesses like trucking companies, involvement in the trade show industry, etc.


Nice......

I didn't realize the DeCavalcantes have only 50 associates. That is an extremely low number.
Posted By: mikeyballs211

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/23/15 03:21 AM

Cook thats interesting I didnt know that about Solly d which is who I assume you're talking about..so he still has a crew as boss thats pretty unique but im sure another more informed poster like ivy can shed light on past occurrences...cook do u have more on this crew? Turf members etc.

Mulberry- good point about Chi having a lot of powerful non Italian associates totally forgot about that point and historically with that fam has alwYs had Lota powerful associates. My point is that even if yours and ivys numbers are correct( and I think low but jusf a guess) to compare them to phi or NE just bc of alleged member count isnt completely fair..I mean their last big hit from LE was fam secrets in what 07? They have always been very connected to unions and corrupt officials..my admitted limited mob insight always thought outside of NY they were and are most powerful..with how corrupt IL is and their quiet under the radar nature theyre sti quite powerful..again just my humbling limited fact based.opinion
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/23/15 07:09 PM

Originally Posted By: mikeyballs211
Cook thats interesting I didnt know that about Solly d which is who I assume you're talking about..so he still has a crew as boss thats pretty unique but im sure another more informed poster like ivy can shed light on past occurrences...cook do u have more on this crew? Turf members etc.


cook is basing his statements off a couple blog posts that talk about DeLaurentis and a "Lake County Crew." There's really been nothing to a suggest a new crew - like the 4 ones mentioned by the feds during "Family Secrets" - has just appeared out of thin air. DeLaurentis was always active in that area, even before he went to prison. But he's likely part of the same crew he's always been. The confusion probably comes down to semantics. A "crew" of guys (Carpelli, Dziuban, Orlando, Iozzo, etc.), who allegedly worked for DeLaurentis, were busted but it's not like we're talking about a new, formally established crew within the Outfit structure like we would the Elmwood Park Crew or the Melrose Park Crew. It would be more accurate to say these guys were associates of the crew DeLaurentis is a member of.

Quote:
Mulberry- good point about Chi having a lot of powerful non Italian associates totally forgot about that point and historically with that fam has alwYs had Lota powerful associates. My point is that even if yours and ivys numbers are correct( and I think low but jusf a guess) to compare them to phi or NE just bc of alleged member count isnt completely fair..I mean their last big hit from LE was fam secrets in what 07? They have always been very connected to unions and corrupt officials..my admitted limited mob insight always thought outside of NY they were and are most powerful..with how corrupt IL is and their quiet under the radar nature theyre sti quite powerful..again just my humbling limited fact based.opinion


Well, there not "my" figures. They come from the FBI. Though I agree that looking at the 28 members cited back in 2007 alone isn't the best way to judge the Outfit.

Also, I'm not sure if you're referring to the "Family Secrets" case, which actually came down in 2005, but there's been other cases since them. For example, you had the Sarno case in 2009, Rudy Fratto busted in 2009 and 2010, the Carpelli bust in 2013, and the Koroluk/Panozzo bust in 2014.
Posted By: Carosophia

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/23/15 10:15 PM

Buffalo!
Actually, I agree with the Philly assessment. Definitely doing things right. Uncle Joe for the win
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/23/15 11:12 PM

I would put Chicago around 30 made guys. Even at their peak, I think it was just 75 made guys. Now they're down to two, and some argue three crews. They lost most of their union clout and the last time they had control of the court and political system was the Greylord/Gambat/Silver Shovel case. Before that, they could commit murder without fear of going to prison.

I just don't see where the families outside of the northeast would find new recruits other than relatives. I think that, more than the FBI and RICO, has done the most damage to LCN.
Posted By: Primo

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/24/15 12:53 AM

My one thing is on Detroit. I read that it has had compared to many other places in the u.s a high influx of Sicilian immigrants in recent times. Could this add anything to the lcn element there ? Or are they to close knit to let in new people. For example the recent restaurant owner attack case. The victim and mafioso were both originally from sicily.
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/24/15 07:02 AM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: mikeyballs211
Cook thats interesting I didnt know that about Solly d which is who I assume you're talking about..so he still has a crew as boss thats pretty unique but im sure another more informed poster like ivy can shed light on past occurrences...cook do u have more on this crew? Turf members etc.


cook is basing his statements off a couple blog posts that talk about DeLaurentis and a "Lake County Crew." There's really been nothing to a suggest a new crew - like the 4 ones mentioned by the feds during "Family Secrets" - has just appeared out of thin air. DeLaurentis was always active in that area, even before he went to prison. But he's likely part of the same crew he's always been. The confusion probably comes down to semantics. A "crew" of guys (Carpelli, Dziuban, Orlando, Iozzo, etc.), who allegedly worked for DeLaurentis, were busted but it's not like we're talking about a new, formally established crew within the Outfit structure like we would the Elmwood Park Crew or the Melrose Park Crew. It would be more accurate to say these guys were associates of the crew DeLaurentis is a member of.

Quote:
Mulberry- good point about Chi having a lot of powerful non Italian associates totally forgot about that point and historically with that fam has alwYs had Lota powerful associates. My point is that even if yours and ivys numbers are correct( and I think low but jusf a guess) to compare them to phi or NE just bc of alleged member count isnt completely fair..I mean their last big hit from LE was fam secrets in what 07? They have always been very connected to unions and corrupt officials..my admitted limited mob insight always thought outside of NY they were and are most powerful..with how corrupt IL is and their quiet under the radar nature theyre sti quite powerful..again just my humbling limited fact based.opinion


Well, there not "my" figures. They come from the FBI. Though I agree that looking at the 28 members cited back in 2007 alone isn't the best way to judge the Outfit.

Also, I'm not sure if you're referring to the "Family Secrets" case, which actually came down in 2005, but there's been other cases since them. For example, you had the Sarno case in 2009, Rudy Fratto busted in 2009 and 2010, the Carpelli bust in 2013, and the Koroluk/Panozzo bust in 2014.




chicago has always operated in lake county, go look at the "fbi" chart from 1957

the chicago mob has business contracts in the city of chicago but not much territory

the fbi said was ferriola was boss, and they have wiretaps that prove otherwise (family secrets)

marcello called ferriola and infelice to meet the "doctor", then carlisi is at the meeting
Posted By: M_Martino

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/24/15 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: mikeyballs211
Cook thats interesting I didnt know that about Solly d which is who I assume you're talking about..so he still has a crew as boss thats pretty unique but im sure another more informed poster like ivy can shed light on past occurrences...cook do u have more on this crew? Turf members etc.


cook is basing his statements off a couple blog posts that talk about DeLaurentis and a "Lake County Crew." There's really been nothing to a suggest a new crew - like the 4 ones mentioned by the feds during "Family Secrets" - has just appeared out of thin air. DeLaurentis was always active in that area, even before he went to prison. But he's likely part of the same crew he's always been. The confusion probably comes down to semantics. A "crew" of guys (Carpelli, Dziuban, Orlando, Iozzo, etc.), who allegedly worked for DeLaurentis, were busted but it's not like we're talking about a new, formally established crew within the Outfit structure like we would the Elmwood Park Crew or the Melrose Park Crew. It would be more accurate to say these guys were associates of the crew DeLaurentis is a member of.

Quote:
Mulberry- good point about Chi having a lot of powerful non Italian associates totally forgot about that point and historically with that fam has alwYs had Lota powerful associates. My point is that even if yours and ivys numbers are correct( and I think low but jusf a guess) to compare them to phi or NE just bc of alleged member count isnt completely fair..I mean their last big hit from LE was fam secrets in what 07? They have always been very connected to unions and corrupt officials..my admitted limited mob insight always thought outside of NY they were and are most powerful..with how corrupt IL is and their quiet under the radar nature theyre sti quite powerful..again just my humbling limited fact based.opinion


Well, there not "my" figures. They come from the FBI. Though I agree that looking at the 28 members cited back in 2007 alone isn't the best way to judge the Outfit.

Also, I'm not sure if you're referring to the "Family Secrets" case, which actually came down in 2005, but there's been other cases since them. For example, you had the Sarno case in 2009, Rudy Fratto busted in 2009 and 2010, the Carpelli bust in 2013, and the Koroluk/Panozzo bust in 2014.


There is also that Mandell case involving the plot to kill Anthony Quaranta. The Panozzo case was suprising to me. Knocking over Cartel stash houses is ballsy. Those two cases changed my preception about the present day Outfit. They appear more active than I had originally thought. I'd say they are on par with NE and Philly in terms of men and slightly more influential.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/26/15 06:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Primo
My one thing is on Detroit. I read that it has had compared to many other places in the u.s a high influx of Sicilian immigrants in recent times. Could this add anything to the lcn element there ? Or are they to close knit to let in new people. For example the recent restaurant owner attack case. The victim and mafioso were both originally from sicily.


Detroit has always been connected by blood. I doubt they would bring in Zips to their family unless it was by marriage. They are mostly senior citizens now and seem content with their books
Posted By: Mickey_MeatBalls_DeMonica

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/26/15 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mark
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: eggplant
The Boise Idaho family may be the strongest in the nation.

Frankie Potatoes is the smartest boss. There's no doubt about that.

I couldn't disagree with you more, pizzaboy. Respectfully, of course.

Everybody knows that Spuds Santoro was way superior to Frankie.

Spuds had eyes on everybody. Nothing got past him.

LMFAO. I almost went with spuds instead of potatoes. I swear to God lol lol lol.


I lol'd. grin

I know you guys are talking about the States, but Calabrian N'Drine continue to proliferate around the world. Especially in my part of the world.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-06/ca...rations/6596192
Posted By: Tandem

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/26/15 06:12 PM

Ivy, very informative break down. Question for you: Aside from the numerical state of the family, how does the Philly family actually fair? I've seen so many posts about how they are a joke etc.... and it seems they have been plagued by 'bad' bosses i.e. Scarfo, Merlino. So what is really the deal with Philly? Legitimate, or not?
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 07/26/15 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Tandem
Ivy, very informative break down. Question for you: Aside from the numerical state of the family, how does the Philly family actually fair? I've seen so many posts about how they are a joke etc.... and it seems they have been plagued by 'bad' bosses i.e. Scarfo, Merlino. So what is really the deal with Philly? Legitimate, or not?


Well they are one of only a few remaining families outside NY. Thats saying something in 2015. You can attribute that to them being in the Northeast as much as anything. In fact, they are probably one of the best examples of how an LCN family can weather repeated indictments, rats, and infighting if it has enough of a recruiting pool to stave off attrition. Anyway, they certainly do meet the criteria for a viable family - they still have a hierarchical structure and ongoing activity, although as I've said, they are basically a street operation at this point.
Posted By: donplugconnected

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 08/12/15 01:30 AM

why is the outfit so low on the list?
Posted By: Nicholas

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 08/12/15 05:21 AM

Originally Posted By: M_Martino

There is also that Mandell case involving the plot to kill Anthony Quaranta. The Panozzo case was suprising to me. Knocking over Cartel stash houses is ballsy. Those two cases changed my preception about the present day Outfit. They appear more active than I had originally thought. I'd say they are on par with NE and Philly in terms of men and slightly more influential.


Where did any of the indictments or journalist writings say that they were knowingly hitting cartel stash houses?

Found this article interesting from Jan. 2014, extortion beef it looks like into a strip club:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-...-steven-mandell

The Panozzo arrests seem more steeped in garden variety home invasions.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Strongest families outside of New York - 08/12/15 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Nicholas


Where did any of the indictments or journalist writings say that they were knowingly hitting cartel stash houses?

The Panozzo arrests seem more steeped in garden variety home invasions.


Prosecutors: Outfit street crew posed as cops to rob drug stash houses
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...0719-story.html

The investigation also revealed that the members of the P-K street crew routinely obtained information from Chicago street gang members to determine the location and contents of drug cartel stash houses. The P-K street crew members would then utilize high tech equipment, such as video surveillance and GPS trackers placed on the cars of drug dealers, to determine the location of the stash house. Once the location was obtained, P-K street crew members would then enter the houses, posing as police officers and steal large quantities of contraband including drugs and other items.
http://www.statesattorney.org/press_RackeeteringOperationChargesAnnounced.html
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