What is the point of being a standup guy nowadays?

Facing life imprisonment without the possibility of parole and unless you have blood family members in the life there are simply no disadvantages of flipping, in witness protection you won't get hit and you can start a new life.

There is probably numerous wiseguys collecting evidence right now for "insurance purposes" so they got something to give to the feds in a cooperation deal if they are ever facing serious time.

I know in that life being a rat is totally humiliating and too disgraceful for some to flip BUT omerta died with Massino and that dude was old school.

For most of the top guys like Nigro and Tommy Shots it is unthinkable but what about the lowly soldier that nobody gives a fuck about...those ones are doing life and are now the forgotten...nobody remembers them....or gives a fuck about them if they do remember.

So back to my question: What is the point of being a standup guy nowadays?

In one sentence you say Omertà died with Massino and then you follow it up referencing Nigro and Shots.

The facts are most guys take the pinch.

Even Soldiers (think Nicodemo).

WHY they do it is the question. Rolling still isn't a dream. It means you've lost your whole life up to that point. Now granted it's better than a life bid, but it's no walk in the park either.
Look at how many guys drop out of the WPP.

So whilst the motive to flip is still there it's not completely one sided.

Saying omerta being dead is a bit of an exaggeration on my part.

Guys drop out of the WPP because it is very restrictive and the chances of getting whacked are very slim at best anyway.

I person who would post this question would never be trusted especially by someone with a paranoid personality. They might let you do something if they actually thought you would do it, but you will never do another because you won't be around after it. Then they will get someone new there is always someone new to take your place

You're born with a loyalty gene or you aren't. It can't be taught. It has to be instinctual. And most of these guys have it.

The overwhelming majority of wiseguys DON'T flip, even in a weakened 21st Century LCN. And the other thing is, you only read about the rats. You rarely read about a local soldier or even an occasional skipper when they take a plea of 7 to 10 and go away quietly. Not unless you're a local, like myself, Bronx and few other guys, or a mob groupie who reads every single press release (and I'm not mocking that, I've always commended our researchers here).

You either have it or you don't. You understand it or you don't.

Yes, and that can be said about almost everything Mafia related. Guys who don´t get it and can´t grasp what it is all about, ask stupid questions and draw ridicolous conclusions. And there has been a lot of this lately.

Neo=Wilson?

Well put.

This is something I've been saying for years every time somebody says something about "everybody flipping nowadays." It may seem that way, because the media focuses so much on them and because most of those who have flipped have come in the last 25 years, but compared to the ones who haven't flipped over the same time period, the number of actually very small.

Only standup guys will keep making money in a life of crime with other standup guys till they die.

Those were the days my Friend, I thought they would never end. They did - Damn it!

Now that they are doing less murders, there will be less life sentences handed down, less reason for people to flip.

Very well said.

I'm thinking this crazy muthafucking Isis will having the feds of the t
Lcns ass. This July 4 weekend them old and new guys will be cooking out scheming well the feds will be watching for Muslims crazies. watching CNN these guys are making there own country in Iraq. Then hilerary comes in as next pres and she'll run amok.

To answer the question the point of being standup is everything. Everything being trusted to make money till the end.

Older guys believe in the oath. The life is their RELIGON ! They don't RAT ! Do the time and hold their water. What is the ratio of guys who flipped born pre 1960 as to guys born post 1960 ?

Lets not get into an era argument, the old timers weren't facing RICO or big offensives by the feds.

No way of knowing if some of the old timers would have flipped or not.

He's only here to stir the pot. He's been here before.

November 12th, bad for your health. Good luck at trial, DickNose.

do you think Wenjue Liu will be a standup guy, or will he fold faster than the south vientamese army in 1975?

#hello grateford

Nah, Jack's the rat. Five-year adjournment on these charges? He already cut a deal. Guaranteed.

Hey jack good luck getting ass raped by some big black dude in prison. Maybe it won't happen but you certainly deserve it

The guy was obvious for two days now,asking q about the west side and stuff..I thought Pb that you were leading him on.

I was smarter in my crib than he is at thirty. I knew it was him from his first post, and so did everyone at BHF, where, as you know, he's no longer allowed to post. And it's much more difficult to sneak back there than it is here, so I'd like to let him know that everyone wishes him the worst come November .

This guy is a piece of work really,hes real determened.F idiot.Didnt see that on the other place just here.

Neo is the one giving HK problems? PB I tried to PM you, but you no longer are accepting PM. I apologize to the J Geoff and mods if this was inappropriate of me to ask that question here.

He's also BROOKLYN2NASSAU. And he was warned to stay out of my posts, yet he just posted nonsense in the Angelo Prisco thread to get a rise out of me. Childish scumbag that he is.

<sigh> What's the point of a thread like this nowadays?

Sorry, Maybe I am just getting a tad frustrated over the sentiment i have been getting on this board as of late of the assumption most mob guys, or the majority of wiseguys, are rats. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Now to your points PB....you are correct...you got it or you don't. And this just isn't for mob guys, it is in general.

Two your second point, this is something we have agreed on in the past and you know my feelings on it, so I don't need to expound further.

You're Aces with me, Blackjack. You know that. The guy who started this thread is DickNose's latest incarnation. Enough said.

I can't. I get too many nuts coming back to taunt me. But I'll open it tomorrow and send you a pm. Then you reply, and when we're done with our exchange I'll lock it back up.

That guy again? Geez. I didn't even think of that. I can't keep up with some of these guys I don't know how theyy have the time to do it.

It makes sense now though looking back on some of his posts

My NZ ip addresses (both desktop & mobile) do not match any other accounts on this forum.

I am not DickNose or anyone else.

I'm just a curious mob watcher and have been for years but never in the forums until now. Before this forum it was only Jerry's column, wikipedia and articles to fan my interest.

ME - not multi-accounter.

You developed this interest in New Zealand? It's a fair question. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Yes I have always found Cosa Nostra interesting. I can't get enough of the Sopranos either.

LCN is interesting to even casual people in New Zealand.

LCN news makes the national paper once in a while.

Okay, we'll see. I hope you're telling the truth. I really do.

To me, his defensive response(almost sounded rehearsed) raises a little bit of a red flag imo.

Specifically mentioning his IP, desktop, and mobile. (VERY easy to mask by the way)

It's dicknose. No doubt about it. Guy is a world class troll

/me chuckles

You all missed it, but I got it PB...

Detective Blackjack, I am not multi-accounter and besides pointing out my NZ ip's there is no other way for me to prove I'm not a multi-accounter.

And yes I am well aware ip's can be masked with VPN's,socks,hacked RDP's and user agent can be spoofed but I wouldn't go to those lengths just to troll a forum.

You know PB it must be cool to live in someone else's head like you do his, you have to be haunting him in his sleep . You know how much I voiced my opinion not to let him back on the other board.

No you wouldn't go through those lengths, took the shortcut this time

I don't understand his obsession with me. I tried to help that kid ten times. Yet he stabbed me in the back every one of those times, and he KNOWS it. He's incapable of loyalty and/or friendship, and he KNOWS it. He doesn't want friends because he doesn't know how to keep friends. So every time he comes back here and we figure it out, I'm going to report it.

I hope he goes up in November. I really do. And I've never wished prison on anyone but the worst kinds of people in my life. Well, he's among the worst. Look at his charges. But I don't want to give him his way and talk about him anymore, and I KNOW that SC and the other mods are tired of this shit. So let's give it a rest, and if he comes back we'll deal with it then.

Well, no reason to get so defensive there DN.

Especially since it isnt just me...its half the forum.

Keep checking his spelling. If he uses american english spelling instead of british english spelling then you know he's full of shit.

Good point. His vernacular has been American up until now. If he suddenly switches to words like colour as opposed to color or criticise instead of criticize, then you know something's up.

But like I said, maybe we're all getting paranoid because of that other guy. The mods have enough on their plate. If it's him, he'll give himself away. If it's not, then hey, I hope he becomes a valuable addition here.

Pride

A man that acts like a man will have a legacy forever . A stand up man will last for a long time

I thinks that's what Mikey Scars wasgetting into , his name is forever shamed and he is traumatized anout it with his family background

And IMO that is absolutely killing him and my guess he would eat it if given a do over

Does it bother him? Probably. Would he eat it cuz he feels guilty? Absolutely not.

He would do it 3 out of 3 times facing that time imo.

Dont believe for a second it is because he wasnt being "taken care of"

Everything you posted makes perfect sense, DB. But I'm stopping you here because it's all that needs to be said. You're born with it or you aren't. You understand it or you don't. Loyalty can't be taught, and neither can pride for that matter.

If you have to ask about it on a message board, then you don't get it and you never will. And if that's the case, that's fine. Just stay out of the street and lead a clean life. Because street life sure as shit ain't for the masses.

I agree. He never did any real time and he folded like a cheap fucking suit the minute he was looking at it.

Now there ARE cases where they create their own rats through greed and abusiveness. But Scars wasn't one of those cases.

Well, he landed in a position that was over his head because of Jr.

Really only had a few years but didnt have a good start as he took over Gravano's rackets while he was informing.

But, there were guys he was over that were more capable than him

But yes, Scars was definetly weak, regadless how bad he feels. A lot of these rats feel bad...look at Nicky Skins

No doubt. But they deserve to wallow in their guilt. Feeling bad is hardly enough penance for giving up guys you know all your life.

Indeed.

If you can't handle that life and the consequences that come with it, get a real job.

Part of being a "standup guy" depends on how far the higher-ups are willing to go to help you--show you that they aren't going to abandon you. Gotti got no help from anyone when he went away on a hijacking charge--his wife even went on welfare. But, after Gotti was arrested in the McBratney murder, Carlo Gambino passed the hat among his caporegimes to hire Roy Cohn, one of NYC's highest powered lawyers, to defend Gotti. He got a light sentence as a result.

I kind of like Mikey Scars, he seems like an intelligent guy. I enjoyed reading his testimony.

As far as flipping, I have a lot of conflicting thoughts. I do feel, though, that if you are a criminal you should man up and do your fucking time. I'm certain about that.

Nobody on this forum (including me) would man up and do life without parole instead of a cozy 3 years, which is what Mikey Scars got for flipping.

Scars is smart and cautious no doubt but he's not a stone cold gangster and he's not the toughest but some of these old time hoods are so cheap with a dollar ....millions and won't spend any....and Peter gotti is a moron.. I'm sure he fucked up the scars situation... He shoulda sent him a package of atleast 100k to keep his mouth shut

Loyalty's also a two way street remember.

Scars got broken down for no reason other than greed.
He got fucked. Where was his loyalty from the family?

If that hadn't happened who knows if he'dve flipped?
So scars flipping isn't all black and white, he's a pussy, etc etc.

They create their own rats through greed and stupidity quite a bit. Even the Westside was culpable for shelving Georgie Barone when he wasn't ready to go.

Take it from me, if not for that boneheaded move, that old man NEVER would have rolled. Trust me on that. And keep in mind, he gave the Westside twice as many years as Scars gave the Gambinos. Maybe three times as many.

You don't know that. We have a couple of members here who did ten year bids. And another guy from Cali who went to trial and beat a life sentence. That's honestly not a call you can make on a board with over a thousand members when you've been here for a week. Read a bit. Use the search feature. Get a feel for the board before jumping in too deep. Just some friendly advice.

Fair enough.

Other than street cred, there is no point. The future of LCN is bleak.

OK, we also aren't made guys in an LCN family. That makes a difference.

I agree with this completely. The same thing with Mchone flipping against Carneglia. He got busted, did not talk but Charles cut him off, labeled him a rat and made it known he was going to kill him. Why would you stay loyal to someone who is doing that to you. Why would you do time for someone who turned their back on you, now Alite is just a piece of shit, but sometimes those who are flipped on deserve it.

Couldn't agree more. Ex: After the Danny Greene Bombing in Cleveland, James Licavoli promised Ray Ferrito membership and his own bookmaking operation as well as help with legal fees if he got pinched...Licavoli gave him oobatz! In turn, Ferrito flipped...and I don't blame him at all. Loyalty and honor work both ways and if you're part of the family, you should be taken care of.

Barone's eyebrows took on a life on their own though

I think you quoted the wrong post, but I assume you mean George. No, the guy didn't manscape .

Yeah I must have.

Yeah one is running east and one is running west lol

And he had a mole right between them that said "What do you want from me?"

Black and PB your probably right

I'll just leave it at pride

I just watched that damn show and Scars fooled me but you guys would know better , my bad

Me I'm a pretty legit citizen from the suburbs of Newark but my first generation family was in the game like many here , they had no opps and honestly their shitty situation led to a bunch of future college educated finance types . All and all their bad led to good I suppose

I lived in bensonhurst, seen scars hundreds of times in the decades i lived there, like i seen a hundred made guys from that nabe, that guy was very well liked, i was shocked he flipped, he was fighting his own fights his whole life, this notion he was a punk like every other guy who rats is nonsense. gravano was no punk, gas was no punk..barone was no punk..they ratted, bad move, their lives they gave to CN was wasted.. these guys didn't say one day i will flip, kill everyone , rob everyone then flip. i don't believe that. maybe some guys do have a plan, scars attempted suicide.was that his plan to rat/ ? skins did the same.some who did not know him would say he was not a tough guy, well if you knew him , you would say he is very fair, straight shooter, not blood thirsty, the nabe knows of a story, he fought two street guys when he was a captain.they did not know each other, he got the first punch in and that was it, he got banged up, when the guys found out who it was they ran away and went to a guy who was a captain for help, when this guy reaches out to scars , the guy says their with me they didn't know who you were, scars answers, i did not have a sign on that i'm a good fellow, i had many fights ill have more..tell them to not to worry.its over..when i heard that i was surprised..but later thought this guy follows the rules and is not hung up on killing ,which he could have done..i'm sorry he flipped , nobody i know had anything bad to say about him..but nobody from that nabe can openly talk good about him now that he flipped.he would have been a great boss . and whom ever said before he regrets what he did..my opinion i feel the same.

Great post, Bronx. And now that I think about it, Greg hated Scars, which is all the more reason for me to give Scars' story a little more thought. And I don't have to tell you how I felt about Greg. So thanks for that .

And you have to remember that I'm a Bronx guy first, and my Brooklyn family was centered around Pacific Street in East New York, not Bensonhurst. So thanks for that, too .

good info Bronx.. I like that fight story.. shows you he didn't have a huge ego like some of these guys.. and he was a skipper at the time.
anyone ive ever talked to who was familiar with him said the same thing you did. that he was very very fair when it came to being a wiseguy.. I watched that stupid mob show that had him and alite on it.. was so bummed it only had like 5 mins of scars and 45 mins of alites dumb ass.. would have been great to hear an hour of scars.. since its not the same story told 100 times over.

Pizza i know you know the scores case pretty good, greg and craig lied to gotti jr about scores action, scars pulled them up on it, they were not happy with scars, he told gotti to stay away they were all going to get pinched, scars went to Tore and said these guys are in your spot ,scores, making a move.tore said they are going to get pinched if they shake them down..so you have scars and tore agreeing ..and the greed in jr, greg and craig go ahead and get everyone pinched. including tore then scars. Pizza , it is hard on these boards to speak well of guys who flip, it is was not right for them to do that no matter what..we are on the outside with a peek now and then on the inside. dom cicale you know well, i have not heard anything good ever about him ,even before he flipped and that was the important time to hear about a guy. i do not know him , so i can never give an opinion , i will lose my credibility. scars was on trial in atlanta, could have taken a deal..but stayed loyal to what gotti sr wanted.could have flipped then.. almost everyone has a breaking point..from me being an outsider, facing life ,just came off a major case , no baill , stopping all your money, then breaking you, for a power play..and who knows what he knew about other factors. the guy broke.seeing him in that show, you can see he made a huge mistake one that could never be fixed..he will suffer with his decision..i say the genius that decided to do that to a guy with so much info should have been taken to task. how many guys walking around that have a tough guy rep, are C.I. s.. probably dozens..

the guy refused consiglieri, he refused the committee early on, guys were scratching their heads in that nabe when that rumor started.. was he smart or ignorant/ ?

Spot-on about Scores, Bronx. I've told the real story here too many times to count. And your account matches up with mine to a tee. This is nothing new to us. That our versions matched up MONTHS ago speaks volumes. We're right.

Greg brought that Borgata to its knees. And I know that Scars showed Tore friendship. You know that Tore and I always got on well. And, well, let's just say that I THINK he understands what drove Scars to his decision. But he could never say as much, for obvious reasons.

Oh, same case. They turned Willie into a rat, too. Doesn't make it right. But if Greg didn't panic and turn on him in Valhalla to cover his own ass, he may have never flipped. Greg was a one-way motherfucker.

something more important, what are mets waiting for to make a trade? the yanks also..sick of girardi..he should go hang out with jr gotti..

The Mets need some sticks. Period. And I'm tired of looking at Girardi myself. He still tries to hard to look like Torre, and his post game excuses are starting to grate on me. If the Yanks miss the playoffs again, he should go.

cashbum and girardi needed to go five years ago..who in their right mind would give beltran 3 years @15mil.. hey he's hurt again thank god.. do you think the metropolitans field is still to big?

Yes, but I still call it Shea and remember all the words to "Meet the Mets." So don't go by me .

how about beating balt in 69..one of the greatest pitching staffs in history, winning the series is one thing, only baseball people realize the staff they beat..

The '70 Orioles pitching staff was even better. One of the greatest rotations in the history of the game. And you're right, it was basically the same staff as '69. But in '70 they weren't gonna be denied. They made chumps of Rose and the Big Red Machine. Yeah, I'm a baseball person .

four twenty game winners, was that the year?

No, that was the '71 team. They lost to Clemente and the Pirates in seven, though. Clemente was a beast in that series.

Thats interesting you mentioned East NY,Ocean hill part of BK,because I dont know if you remmember my grandfather was born there in 1931 before moving to 17th ave.Where where Italians centered in that neighbourhood?I know that there were blacks to the west and jews to the south.
Can you share a little history,thanks very much PB.

1971 , i'm getting old.. 44 years ago..thanks Pizza

I think the Yanks problem is that they don't want to have a ballooning payroll anymore and they need to let some of these contracts go. Clear it out for Bryce Harper... hopefully.

Mets need a bat (or three), but don't trade one of the young guys for it. Wait until FA next year.

Good post.

And though I don't think too highly of rats minus special circumstances maybe...

One thing I never do is associate a rat being a punk. Being a rat doesn't take that shark/killer inside them away...it just lay dormant.

Most of these guys that flipped were murderers and beat people up as part of their "job" and it takes a different type of person to do those things.

It seems to me the yankees changed when George died.

.

Bronx/PB Was it Nicky Corozzo the one who broke Scars and stopped his money? Was Corrozzo intimidated by him and did he want him out to make a move to take over the family?

my feelings also.gorge was great for baseball, imagine if the idians would have taken george on board..he was a rocky river ohio guy. history would be different the yanks would still have horace clarke playing second base

And the so-called "Curse of Rocky Colavito" would never have come into existence .

Rocky was a Bronx kid. That's why I always took an interest. Truth be told, he's a little before my time.

nickys brother jojo was consig, but he listened to nicky who was in prison, pete was pinched a week or so before scars.. like killing paul, pete jojo nicky did a stupid thing by breaking a guy facing life, why?, three things could happen to scars ,blow trial get life , take a plea of probably near double digits or beat another case. he would be off the street with two scenario's the other one he beats another case, how could you not want a guy who keeps beating cases..a dumb move by ignorant men.remember the story wrote about pete gotti, when scars was testifying? the story was called the dumbest don.. they never thought he would flip, nobody thought he would.he was pure CN.. they made a power move against someone who was in prison..i have many stories i can tell about the gambino guys, how many guys flipped around nicky c. ? andrew d. joe v. nicky skins. and who knows how many C.I's he created around him.. he does his time, if he was not so aggressive he would be home more.balls does not equal brains.. give you one more story that floated around early mid 90's, before danny marino went to prison, he was called in and asked about the plot to kill gotti, he denies it, did they expect him to admit it?? he goes in to prison, jr gotti nicky c decide to break danny marino, jr as the story goes tells scars, scars tells jr , break him? if you felt he had something to do with it, you don't break him.. break him while he is in prison is a punk act..won't look good.. we will look weak and tip our hand..not verbatim but close to what the rumor was at that time..you live in bensonhurst you hear a lot..ill knock the rust off and try to remember more..

more my time Pizza , rocky colovito ..what a great name! joe pepitone ..tony conigliaro..ah the good old days..

Oh, I remember Pepitone well. I was born in '59. He was in the thick of the Yankee lineup when I first took an interest in the game. Of course, I'm a Mets fan, which a lot of people can't understand because I'm a Bronx guy through and through.

Short version: My Dad was a Harlem guy. You know that. So, naturally, he was a Giants fan. He was like thirty years old when they pulled up and moved out west. Never forgave them (although, since Bonds retired, he rooted for them in the three World Series that they've won).

Anyway, like most Giants and Dodgers fans, in '62 he became a Mets fan. He instilled it in me, and that's all she wrote. But I don't "hate" the Yanks. I usually root for them as long as they're not playing the Mets. I mean, if it's Yanks-Braves in the series, do you think I'm rooting for a bunch of assholes from Georgia?

Where I live, its pretty split 50/50, Mets Yankees. You start going up North and you'll start seeing a ton of Sox fans. I think pmac is a Sox fans, see it thrown in on one of his OC posts haha.

Anyway, PB, your dad didn't do you any favors with the Mets. That's for sure.

Agree to disagree .

Because, first of all, my father can do no wrong in my eyes. That's how it is with Italian men and their sons. And secondly, he taught me a long, long time ago that it's much easier to root for a perennial winner.

Sticking with a loser, though frustrating, builds character .

When my dad moved to the country, he became a bills fan. Buffalo fucking Bills.

I'll take winning, haha. But its too late now. I'll always love my teams

very true, got to root for your home town, living in sarasota, i root for both yanks and mets, your at war with the midwest fans, the rays and marlin fans are not fanatical..so we must represent NY ..no matter what..

A short, true story with two of those names. It was June, 1967 and the Red Sox lead by Tony Conigliaro were playing the Yankees at the Stadium. The Yankees had horrible teams in those years and the Red Sox had not made much of a move yet but the rivalry between the two teams was already historic.

Tempers were running short in the game. A few hit batsmen and knock-down pitches added to the tumult. After one incident the two benches emptied and both teams came running out onto the field in a typical buildup to a baseball brawl (in which nothing really happens but some pushing and shoving). Well, Joe Pepitone, a boy from Brooklyn, had other ideas and he started taunting Red Sox shortstop, Rico Petrocelli, another Italian kid from Brooklyn. Rico tackled Pepitone and all hell broke loose. Fists and bodies were flying. (One of Rico's brothers worked Stadium Security and he ran out onto the field to protect Rico. Joe Pepitone swore that Rico's brother was pulling on his toupee and that his brother swore to break anyone's legs if they hurt Rico).

I firmly believe that this fight was the turning point and catalyst for the Red Sox to go on and win the pennant that season.

That's the understatement of the year. Ever go to a Mets-Marlins or Yanks-Rays game down there?

85 percent of the crowd rooting for New York. Minimum. But that's because most of them are New York transplants, like us.

yes i go to both teams games, i went to a rockies game vs yanks years ago ,like you said had to be 75% yankee fans..they got swept. talk about torture..

I'm the same way with the Soxs/Cubs. I'm a sox fan through and through, but I usually root for the cubs when they're not playing the sox. Plus, I would love to see the cubs win it all. The city would completely shut down.

One of my younger female cousins married a Red Sox fan which is the "only thing wrong with him", according to her father who is a die hard Yanks fan. It's funny to see them post fb pics of her son in a Red Sox onesie or hat. Drives her father nuts. They go back and forth like that cuz once he's with his Grandpa he's in a Yankee onsie. Only true baseball fans will understand this so I figured I'd add it here since all of you are talking about bb.

nice story..

I'm a die hard Mets fan here, I don't think there's more passionate die hard fans than Mets, Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox fans. I've been to a lot of MLB ballparks all over the country and there's no place like the Northeast when it comes to baseball!

Pizza...jr gotti OUT OF THE CLOSET .was an undercover..met fan... jr always said he was a yankee fan when his father was alive.. after he decides to blame his father for everything in life , except getting rich...he comes clean and says i was always a met fan but i did not want to hurt my dad, now that i am free of him and the mob..i am a met fan..sorry Pizza , i'm relieved he is not on this team anymore LOL..both of them

There is ONE place you forgot, CHICAGO!! My Great Uncle's wife is from Chicago and when the Bears played the Giants (or it could've been NY baseball against Chi I don't remember) They had to watch the game in DIFFERENT rooms because they would argue and fight. No joke.

butkus

That's hysterical. He probably lied about being a Raiders fan, too .

he did he was a jet fan..

Stand and salute when saying that name, bronx.

Amen to that.

I should know too. Jays fan.

And you never, ever, EVER, leave before the 9th.
No matter the score.


A side note about supporting teams. I was raised that where you're born is the team you support. FOREVER. No picking and choosing teams. And its disgusting how many Habs fans there are in Toronto who've never even BEEN to Montreal. Or Bruins fans.
You're born in Toronto. You bleed blue n white.
A Yankees game in Toronto and half the crowd rocks up in the stripes.
Hell most of Hamilton goes for the Tigers.
Point being its easy to follow a winner.
But I digress.

Note: @ PB, Above not directed at you, you didn't jump on the bandwagon of a winning team, which was my convoluted point.

that name says it all.. football real football. great middle linebackers then

Sonny you are from toronto?

Ex-pat Australian living in Toronto.

Though technically Im back in Aus for a short hiatus.

Which has ALOT to say on the discussion we were having regards loyalty in the other thread.

People who jump on the bandwagon of a winning team? Whats that say about loyalty?

And youre right. Some people are born with it, some just arent.

i have friends in hamilton nice city, did michael f. do some kind or seminar in AUS. recently if you know

I really couldn't say B.

What a player he was I watched as a college player a real animal. He was hated after his knee injury. Some players gave him the respect of not trying to cut his legs from under him.

Not all I think his name was Ray Mansfield a center with the steelers. He tried to make Butkus a cripple because he hated him so much.

Their was a story about Willis Crenshaw a back with the St. Louis Cardinals who tried to stiff arm Butkus. He got his fingers inside Butkus cage. Story goes Butkus actually bit off one of his fingers.

I saw namaths first intra squad game as a Titan. That was the jets name before they changed it to the jets. They played at a college field in Long Island.

They had 3 quarter backs that year. Namath, Johnny Huart and another guy I forget his name.

The receivers could not catch Namath he was throwing too hard.

Real football when the clothesline was legal. When lineman could not extend their arms when they blocked someone. When the defensive head slap was legal.

I like Australians they come from good criminal stock. We used to export piece good and other things to Australia years and years ago.

There was an Australian dress company voyager something I forget. He bought material piece goods and other goods here. I go pick him up at his hotel to take him to our office. There he looks at piece goods to choice what he wanted to buy in bulk. He also did that with drugs.

He was a tough guy and his wife was an equally tough girl. A panhandler was bothering them for money in front of their hotel. I see this I get out to give the bum a bump with a tire iron. But before I could get their both the guy and his wife are already beating the shit out of the bum.

An Australian? Are you a rugby league guy?

One of my close girlfriends is a Rabbitohs fanatic.

Union (+AFL).

As we say 'league's a sport played by criminals, for other criminals'



Though admittedly haven't watched either code in years. Now a leafs n jays diehard.
Which seems to be how we finish every season

Probably why she likes it

I feel your pain on the Jays, as a life long Mets fan. We must have serious masochistic tendencies.

they should bring those rules back

When the mets won their first World Series I never saw people in NYC be so close. The next time was when the scum bags hit the WTC. But we could not keep that feeling unfortunely.

It's a form of cutting

Once a colombo made men asked sonny franzese because despite being sentenced to 50 years once released on parole have returned to life, he replied "because I love the "life"."

Now it's easier to flip than 30 years ago, I think that still now be a stand up guy means accepting a long prison sentence maybe the life without flip how did John Pappa of colombo or bruno indelicato that come back to the family that whacked his father and take 20 y in 2008.

In that case, Cubs fans have more character than anyone.