Who was the King Of Dope? Bonnano-Luchesse-Genoves

During the late 40s, 50s, who exactly was the biggest guy in drugs in CN? Bonnano and Galante? Luchesse and Ormento? Apparently Gambino was moving shit for Lucky, But Genovese had his own supply and distribution? Did it all come thru the docks, and if so, was this Anastasia's domain? OR is this only true of the Brooklyn docks? Or maybe there was no real primacy of one group? Any thoughts?

great question

As each family had a crew or 2 knee deep in this business

Of your list , Ormento is one guy that had more influence that many today don't

Quite recoginize . He was the source for the Ls and worked very very closely w

Genovese , they all grew up together

Later on though the Bonnanos had no choice but to stay deep in drugs

The others it was less core tho Luchesse even in the 80s sold tons of dope , a lot

Of leftovers from then Ormento reign

Every families stay in the biz so is difficult to say what was the most strongest.

Luciano with don vizzini of villabate send H in the Us hidden in the candies;Bonanno had Galante and strong ties with the sicilian and all the families buy the H by the Corsicans with the French Connection.

Why would Gambino be selling heroin for Luciano? Seems strange given Carlo's family ties.

Read some where Carlo brother Paulo was the dope man. And of course conte. Lil al book said the dean of dope was Joe peck and a stable of brothers selling dope right into gotti days. They were indicted with genovese and chin. Wonder what chin was thinking in the 80tys when he would bump into all the luchese dope guys on prince st way after him and big Paul made there deal you die rule.

And chin let Barney and some old guys a pass after fish cafaro bought a kilo or 2 of them in 86 87 wearing a whire. He had them dead to rights but they got off on a technicality. They bumped to actk g boss few years later.

Cause Lucky was just outta jail and sent to italy,so he was disconnected from the new york streets. Costello was playing too many away games,lansky was doing his own thing, so was joey a, and vito had his own army, plus his own italian connections so he didnt really need luciano. Luchesse was close to lucky and gambino and luchesse were family, plus gambinos in anastasias family, and anastasia is closer to lucky than his own boss. There were complex family relationships during this period.
Its interesting,another myth i just thought of, Lucky at the Cuba meeting trying to take the boss of bosses title, also in his book he says he wanted to ban narcotics, Isay bullshit, I think he wanted the Boss of bosses title, which I actually think the other bosses could care less about, cause he was never coming back. But I think Lucky tried to take charge of allthe dope, and the other bosses were very resistant, they were used to thier independence and were not about to shuck it for the sake of honoring lucky, so they ratted him out and sent him back to italy. Aso in The strenght of the wolf, it says bugsy might have been hit for trying to take over the west coast dope trade, think about that for a second, any thoughts?

Bonanno family lost its seat due to Narc....

Interesting question

From 1930's to the 1950's the Detroit family was bigger than the rest of the families in drugs. When it comes to New York City. The Lucchese family was the biggest in drugs. The Bureau of Narcotics got a lot of informants from that family alone. By the mid 1950's Vito Genovese and Joe Bonanno were the two biggest in drugs. Joe played it smart and allowed Galante and Evola crews to handle the distribution of the drugs, from Canada to Florida, and New York to California. Vito was playing it smart till he became boss of the Genovese and let his guard down, I still believe he was set up on an informants lies, but he did not restrict who dealt in drugs and who didn't, just made sure he got his cut from the profit.

Great point, I alluded to this in another post, describing the relationship between Profaci and Zerilli, and how this goes overlooked a lot during the time period. You got Profaci, Zerilli, Bonnano and Maggadinno, all family ties. Four commission-level figures, and you got Detroit moving massive amounts of dope. I stated previously Joe Adonis was paid by ford motors for labor peace and it was suggested by AlfaRomero that he was a major drug capo; I also bring up the point that they had the Detroit don speak at the Commision meeting challenging the New York Don for a reason, They were huge in drugs, and a power in their own right. And this was a major block of power for Profaci on the Commision.

Something else I realized, Costello had a lot of gambling, lot of income with his business with Lansky and Luciano, and this funded his political protection. I'm thinking in order to compete Adonis and Luchesse moved a lotta drugs to make their political payoffs. The Luchesses seem to be the biggest in New York cause of distribution, they actually had markets like Pleaseant ave to move drugs. Genovese later had his nightclub network, Bonnano had the middleman position on this side of the Atlantic, taking from the Sicilians and facilitating deals with the Americas through Montreal. The Gambinos seemed to be agents of Luciano and maybe Luchesse, as Luciano really couldn't trust Genovese at this time, and probably couldn't really trust Costello with something that Blue-Collar... Thoughts??

The Lucchese family was heavily involved in the French connection. After that netwerk was busted in the early 1970s the Bonannos and Gambinos took over with their Pizza connection rackets until the mid 1980s. It seems that of the New York families the Bonannos, Gambinos and Luccheses have been the most involved in the drug trade. They had crews that were specialized in the importation and disitribution of narcotics. The Luccheses had John Ormento and Vincent Papa while the Bonannos had Carmine Galante and Montreal, and the Gambinos had the 'Cherry Hill Gambinos'.

In the King of Godfathers it is said that Fat Tony Salerno despised the Bonannos because of their involvement in drugs. He apparently said that the Bonannos had a crew of 80 guys that were into drugs only.

their were two joe beck's, both H guys.. paolo was carlo's H guy..true.a real malandrino also..that rule was for the cops to hear..nonsense..paul was taking conte's money, like the 3 monkey's

if they would have killed everyone involved in the drug biz ,there would be no more italians left in the mob.and a few suicide's for the guy left with nobody to kill them selves.

Bronx I had a question. With all these guys involved in drugs, was it visible in their neighborhoods? Did it influence the people, addictions, violence, crime etc. or was it strictly done outside their neighborhoods?

they stricly work together to get vito out of the way. carlo gambino realized he wouldn't be boss of bosses with vito trying to so they had someone drop a dime on the meeting and bam vito was out of carlo gambinos way.

i think the Bonnano

CB, it was Gambino and Lucchese tying to force Joe Profaci to retire, Joe Bonanno, Joe Zerilli, and Joe Cerrito knew what was happening as bosses, Frank Costello of the Genovese advised both Black and Funzi in his family about it, even though he was retired.

DPC, there was no boss of bosses, the other bosses wanted Vito out of the way cause of the fiasco in 57, and his throwing his weight around as a boss, plus he might have decided to hit Gambino, but then he would also have to have hit Lucchese after that, and I don't think Vito would have gone that far since him and Tommy went way back.

Based on what? The sheer size difference alone would have made the NY families bigger operators in the drug racket than Detroit.

The purple gang was the biggest manufacturer of Narcotics in the U.S. during the 1920s through their downfall in the early 1930s. They had pipelines to the west, south, east, and Canada. The Detroit family took over the operations and became powerful in the drug trade as many mobsters from around the county got their material or drugs from Detroit. The BoN kept good tabs and reports, not to mention that about 34 percent of their busts came from the state of Michigan during the 30's and 40s, plus another 19 percent connected to that state.

No one family has controlled it completely ever, some have been more powerful than others at times. Wasn't Galante taken out for trying to control the dope trade? Or was it some underlying causes we aren't aware of.

Thanks for mentioning me. My thoughts are that New York was huge in narcotics because the two largest families had the Manhattan and Brooklyn harbor unions. Due to the sheer volume of freight moving through those two ports, freight that could not all be checked and examined because there was simply too much of it, and due to the regular shipping lines that regularly arrived from Europe, and due to New York's proximity to Europe, it made the New York City harbors the easiest and most logical place for massive amounts of heroin to enter the United States.

And I think it still does.

When it came to the big cash cows, like narcotics, Atlantic City, the Garment District, and other things the bosses split up evenly amongst one another....there was no big boss over everything.

The peace was kept by keeping all egos in check and splitting the loot evenly.

Galante got whacked because he tried to deviate from that formula.

Joe Bonanno also might have tried to deviate from that.

Masseria and Maranzano went down because all of the lieutenants got together and got tired of their greed. The money was flowing to the top and that would not stand. Subsequent to the downfall of the two would be boss of all bosses, a new arrangement was forged whereby peace would be kept by dividing the big money at the top. That's what I believe.

But for the sake of discussion, who was the "defacto" King for the sake of speculation?

It would have to be three to five kings.

One or two in the United States dominating America Cosa Nostra.

One in Sicily dominating that point in Heroin's transit.

Someone in Turkey who was preeminent over that poppy growing industry there.

Someone in Marseilles France dominating L'Unione Corse.

Each king over each territory dominated a specific point in heroin's transit across the globe.

So while Lucky Luciano might have been the most powerful boss from the United States, because he was in absentia and had to defer to the Sicilian Mafia, he wasn't king in the USA or in Italy either. King in the sense of being the top guy.

here we go again, the detroit mafia basically formed from a drug gang

just because you have more people doesn't mean that they're more influential

Do you mean traffickers of narcotics? Obviously heroin was the drug at the time and it came ready for sale into the U.S.

The reason I would tend to assume the NY families were bigger traffickers was because New York has always been the biggest market.

It may be after the period you're talking about but a 1957 study by the NYPD found 3 in 5 (60%) Lucchese members had been arrested for narcotics, 1 in 2 (50%) Genovese members had been arrested for narcotics, 1 in 3 (33%) Colombo members had been arrested for narcotics, 1 in 3 (33%) Bonanno members had been arrested for narcotics, and 1 in 5 (20%) Gambino members had been arrested for narcotics. That's a lot of people, especially considering the size of the families at the time.



You mean with you trolling? I know. When will it stop?

Here is a something that I wonder.......WHO was the first made member to be whacked for being involved with drugs?.....Meaning, where did this fictitious rule of drugs=death start?

Who was the first to get punished for it?

I don't know which gangster was the first to be whacked for selling drugs, but it would have to be someone after 1951.

I am of the belief that it was the 1951 Boggs Act which prompted the Commission to outlaw renegade drug dealing and declare dope to be the exclusive territory of Commission Bosses only. Meaning, if you weren't on the Commission, you were not part of the Mafia drug empire, even if you were a Boss.

Each Commission Boss represented a city in the transit point of international narcotics trafficking and/or a unique entry point for narcotics into the United States, the profits of which were then split evenly by commission bosses. I believe these bosses worked together in some cases to move the same exact dope through different cities, like a conveyor belt.

Some bosses were in control of not just a transit point, but an entry point, such as Manhattan or Brooklyn harbor, Miami, or the Canadian and Mexican borders.

This is what I thought the board was for, I asked this question thinking New York was always tops, and then Giacomo came with the detroit knowledge, and I felt like I learned something...
To me, its a key thing overlooked when understanding the commision politics of the time period.If Detroit was the biggest in one of the if not THE biggest moneymaker, and they are allied to Profaci, and he is allied with Bonnano, and He is allied with Maggadino, and detroit is close to families in St. Louis, ect...
Like taking all this into consideration, WHO WAS ACTUALLY THE STRONGEST BOSS IN THE 30S-40S? Can we really say Lucky? Is it Costello? Or the Brooklyn click of Profaci, Bonnano, Mangano?

This is a New York-centric view; It doesnt matter if New York is a bigger city, Like Alfa pointed out, detroit was integrated at the production, supply And distribution levels, so they control thier own production, transit, (with the Teamsters) And distribution, the most powerful drug syndicates are almost always horizontally and vertically integrated like this.
Its why you saw the sicilians sending thier own guys to move the dope over here, why the colombians sent thier own guys to move dope,why CN imported Puerto Rican immigrants to move dope for them (something i read recently, actually kinda explains Nelson Cantellops and Vito, to me at least)why you see ndrangheta making moves on the New York market. New York might have had control over distribution and an entry point,( the docks) but detroit had the links to producers, and had family in the mafia in sicily, trusted people to handle it on the other side of the water.
You can control production like a Luciano, you can control distribution like a Ormento, you can be the middle -man linking both Bono,Galante, Rizzuto, maybe Cali now, But if have all three, you are a King.....

What Giacomo said, besides yet being unproven, is debatable to say the least. And even if it were true, it wouldn't automatically mean Detroit was the biggest money maker or change things in NY. The Genovese family has always been considered the most powerful family by most people in law enforcement and mob experts. No point in indulging on revisionist history based on little or nothing.

And NY has always been the center or ground zero for all things LCN. That's just a fact. And the size of the families and the area they operate are major factors, whether people recognize it or not.

An example, Griselda Blanco, connnects to producers, the middle man Rafa, and Her own crew to move it, doesnt matter where she is in the world, she would probably be tops in coke at that time...
Or think Ohio with George Remus during prohibition..

I dont understand? Revisionist history?Explain to me why its so inconceivable for Detroit to be biggest in narcotics from the 30s, to the 50s? Like you really confuse me, your Purple Gang stats, like they Are from Detroit right? Your New York stats ARE from the 50s, like WHAT ARE YOU ARGUING EXACTLY?
Better question, Luciano goes to jail in the 30s, Who fills that vaccuum from New York? Remember, Rothstien controlled this trade, Lucky inherited from him, and his contacts were in China, not the middle East, but the Far East. So you tell me,lol The Title of the thread, Who was the King of Dope?

New York got rich off the french connection, which Lucky helped form, like After he was deported, no? Like is this wrong? Seriously...

I'm arguing you shouldn't take the whole Detroit being the biggest in narcotics from the 30's to the 50s as a given when that hasn't been established. And not only are you making that assumption, in your last post you used that as a jumping off point for several other assumptions.

Have you read up on the Partinico group from sicily? Have you read up on Lucianos and Lanskys ties to the Chinese Ezra Brothers? Have you read anything on Coppolas political power in sicily? I really dont understand, Lucky inherited drug contacts from powerful jews, You mention the purple gang, yet it seems immposible to you that the detroit italians could have inherited this traffic cause why, its Detroit and not New York?
Also, the Purple gang MANUFACTURED drugs? Really, did they import morphine, was it like legally made medicinal stuff in a lab, I gotta say THIS sounds a lot like an assumption to me...
And you cant really say I cant take Detroit being the biggest in drugs in the 30s, the FBN would have said otherwise, and I havent seen much to contradict the HYPOTHESIS, NO one said it was fact, why I asked in the thread. Its like to me they were the biggest its just that Narcotics wasnt the biggest racket yet... And you are killing me with this assumption thing, its all assumptions, what do you think good cops are doing right now? Speculating off of info they have in front of em.
I gotta take a min...

Holy heck, you are mixing parts of what I said with what Giacomo said. Have you ever been diagnosed with ADD? Its ironic this thread is about drugs because you need to be on them. I'm thinking Ritalin or Adderall. High dosage.

Okay, see I thought it was me, but I see now you just kinda have an attitude. And Im in another thread about philly, no one there has an issue having a discussion, people are looking at hypothetical scenarios, no one demanding set in stone facts that you read , where on the same internet as everyone else?
I kinda let you piss me off before but now I see it is you, not me. You ignore every point I make, ridicule every counter arguement, and Every Thing Mafia anywhere at all times revolves around New York... ROGER... and Dude yopu can just google coppola, ormento, priziola, partico, the teamsters, ect.. like you dont need to take my word for it, and also, yall call people fanboys, but you seem REALLY sensitive about New York, like I said detroit was probaly the biggest in narcotics, you do realize this statement does not make them the top mob right? Like Narcotics isnt the top racket at this time, so why does this seem to offend your sensibilities?... You are a funny guy, like you think everything you have read is right, and everyone else is wrong...

this

just calm down guys.

Cabrini, you asked a straight question. Let me give you as straight an answer as I can.

Yes all the bosses in America split the profits from the largest cash cows, so there was no one king of dope. But there had to be a defacto king, not necessarily of dope, but of the underworld overall.

The strength resided in the five families as nationally predominant.

Within the five families, the two largest families that controlled the harbors were predominant.

Between those two families, the defacto boss of bosses was either a Genovese Boss or a Gambino Boss, all depending on the specific time frame. During Carlo's time, the Gambino's dominated, and little Carlo was the alpha male. During Genovese's time, the Genovese family dominated and Vito was the alpha male. Before Vito, the alpha male was Salvatore Lucania. My guess is that power was always alternating between those two families, the Luciano and Mangano.

Speaking for myself, I remain unconvinced (at least without more info) that Detroit was ever the biggest family in the drug trade. This thinking on my part doesnt come from some sensitivity about New York but the fact that the NY families we're always the biggest, had the biggest market by far, as well as international contacts and control over ports of entry.

Cabrini starts down the road of thinking Detroit being the top family in narcotics could have somehow, by extension, changed the power structure in NY but later reverses himself and says being top of the drug trade at the time doesn't automatically mean anything because drugs weren't the biggest racket. Well, which is it?

I wouldn't take it upon myself to declare any one guy the "King of Dope." That title could have probably been given to several mafiosi depending on the time frame in question.

In the earlier years I think the Genovese family would be in the running before they pulled back (not abandoned) their level of involvement in the later years. Along the way in between it was probably the Gambino, Lucchese and Bonanno families all jockeying for the position. Later I think it came down to the Gambinos and Bonannos being the most deeply involved and it seems to remain that way to this day. Probably with the Gambinos at the top if only because of the sheer size difference.

And don't let anyone kid you. The mob has ALWAYS been involved in the drug trade to one degree or another. And that includes after the early 1950s and after Apalachin. As I said before, many families may have adopted a nominal "no drugs" policy but it was often ignored. Capeci gives examples of guys dealing before and after the 1950s including Joe Armone, Vito Genovese (who Capeci says there is little evidence to support the theory he was set up), and Carmine Galante. John Ormento was another one.

I'm not sure what some people get out of claiming the mob abandoned drugs from the early 1950s until their involvement became impossible to deny in the 1980s. Even if it were true - which it isn't - what are we talking, maybe 30 years tops? But only someone who is ignorant of mob history or has an agenda will believe that.

A lot of people forget about Bendito, who put a bargo on Sicily. The drugs did not start to really come into the American harbors till near the end of the war and after from Italy. Detroit had the connections. Drugs did come into America, but these were from different countries and groups.

Are you saying the other families, including the NY ones, had no direct drug connections before the mid-1904s and everyone had to get their supply from Detroit?

Ivy don't forget about the Uboats and Japan taking over China and southeast Asia. The other families did have connections, but had to go through Detroit when access was scares. Lucchese and Dragna families had some balls since they stole from military bases. You really have admire that move, since it would have cost a bullet by the sentry.

It wouldn’t surprise me if these factors during the war affected drug supplies. But why did it affect the NY and other families but not Detroit? I can imagine families going to Detroit when it had a supply but can also see the reverse happening depending on whoever had drugs to sell at a given time.

So not only are you saying Detroit was the biggest family in the drug trade from the 1930s to the 1950s, you're also saying they were the only ones with direct drug connections for several years. I see no convincing evidence for any of this.

You are right about this, this guy has me a little off my rocker lol, I apologize for the mistakeses, lol

There is some validity to Giacomo's post regarding Detroit bringing in Heroin, but I think his dates are wrong. See the attached newspaper clippings from 1959 that reports on testimony from Charles Siragusa, from the Bureau of Narcotics,to a Senate Rackets Committee. Siragusa claims that Detroit and St. Louis had the largest pipeline of H into the US for a period of time, begining in 1949-1950. Siragusa also claims Detroit and St Louis were selling into NY. The article claims the key figures were Raffaele Quasarano (Detroit), Salvatore Vitale (Italy), Tony Giordano (St Louis), Tony Lopiparo (St Louis) and Ralph "Shorty" Caleca (St. Louis).

Ok Ivey, follow me here, it affected the New Yorkers because the drug trade was run by Jewish racketeers, who were plugged in the Far East. iTalians like Luciano and Costello and Adonis were close to rothstein and as such, were the top Italians in the trade in New York. ( And there were still Jewish partners like Lepke, and this Katzenberg character who is popping up in books I've read recently) Now when this gets disrupted, both by le and the war, a vacuum is left, you see? Lucky is locked up, Bonnano hasn't set up his pipeline yet,
Genovese has to flee....
So it's a matter of convenience and circumstance, combined with contacts and resources, like I said just read up a little on Coppolas power in Sicily, the Detroit Windsor crew, the whole partinico faction.
(And stepping outside the mafia Ivey, Detroit has like, some Hall Of fame drug gangs, I want you to consider what exactly would it take to be successful in the narcotics trade, you will quickly find it is not something limited by geography)
Also, I do consider your point, and I think the most likely New York gangster with all the components in place to dominate narcotics, was probably Joe Adonis.
Also, Drugs have basically Always changed the power structure in New York. It's a big point in the godfather, a powerful drug capo, that actually has the power to hit The top boss, because the profit potential is so huge.Look at the three capos, all that was drugs. Gotti and castellano, drugs. Carlo breaking up Vito's ring so he could basically duplicate it. Galante hit, drugs. Look at Vito's drug ring, Evola,Ormento, Mazzie, drugs have a tendency to ignore traditional family hierarchies and alignments,men go where the money goes...
The Sicilians controlled the heroin trade, but were Anastasia or Costello Sicilian? Do you see Mangano being strong enough to control either of them? I see Mangano allying with Profaci, Bonnano, to curb Anastasias power the same way Costello allied with Anastasia to stave of genovese. I see Profaci allied with zerilli, Bonnano, MAggadino, possibly Gagliano too. Even if not Gagliano, that's possible three commission votes, how many would they need for controlling influence. Again these rivalries make charting the flow of power a lot more complicated than just, well the genovese are the strongest.
Alfa, you make a concise, reasonable perfectly logical argument, but I want to ask you something; Do you subscribe to the theory of Liberal and Conservative factions on the commission in the 40s? It's something I feel gets really overlooked; IT seems to be LUciano/Chicago, Profaci/Bonnano/MAggadino/zerilli definitely, with Mangano/Gagliano possibly with the conservative Faction. Consider MAngano, he couldn't control Anastasia, and a lot of this was based on the fact that he was close to Costello and Luciano. So when Lucky goes away, he breathes a little easier, why I believe he would throw in with the Profaci faction.
But hey, I'm just a reader, lol any thoughts on any of this silliness?

Also look up Vincenzo Catalanotte from Detroit, he was deported to Sicily in the 1930s, for drug offensives. He set up a drug pipeline, that eventually Frank would incorporate into his own pipeline. Corolla in New Orleans, and Gagliano in New York City would benefit from these, from their Capos that would send tribute on up.

Scott Burnstein has a good article on the Detroit / St. Louis heroin pipeline here:

http://gangsterreport.com/heroin-the-20th-century-detroit-mafia/

It is a bit off the topic of this thread, but I have been trying to learn more about the Detroit / St. Louis family relationships. The article above provides a lot good background information, although it focuses more on Detroit than St. Louis.

I am still working on the research, and it looks like a lot has to do with blood relations and involvement in the heroin trade. Here are some facts.

Vittorio “Don Vito” Vitale, from Castellammare del Golfo, is believed to be one of the Frank Coppola's original sources of heroin. Raffaele "Jimmy" Quasarano (Detroit) was the son in law of Vittorio Vitale.

Vittorio Vitale's is blood related to Salvatore “Toto” Vitale, from Partinico. Toto Vitale was sotocapo of the Partinico family.

Toto Vitale is cousins with John Vitale, of the St Louis family.

Toto Vitale is also the grandfather of Salvatore 'Good Looking Sal' Vitale, the ex underboss of the NY Bonanno family and mob informant.

Gaetano Badalamenti, involved in the Pizza Connection, was married to Theresa Vitale. I am not certain, but it looks like Theresa was from Castellammare and is related to Vittorio Vitale.

There are a bunch of other relationships between Detroit and St Louis that are not mentioned here (Tocco for example), but those are some of the pertinent ones as it applies to the heroin trade.

Prior to the 1930s you may have a point about the Jewish gangsters and the drug trade but that really began to change in the 1930s as the Italians consolidated their power, to say nothing of the 1940s and 1950s.

Drugs has obviously been a factor in both the day to day operations and maneuverings of the mob. What I don't agree with is your theory that Detroit's control of the drug trade (which remains debatable in itself) would directly and significantly change the mob power structure in NY. Especially during the era in question which the mob was not as involved in narcotics as it would be in later years. If we were talking about a drug cartel which is basically a one trick pony, that would be one thing, but the mob has always been much more diversified.

Control might be a bad term, more like they had the most reliable, consistent, dependable pipeline. At all points, they had big influence, from political connects in Sicily, to mafia family members with access to opium growers in turkey, mafia family members in the U.S. To receive the dope, connects to the teamsters to move it around the country, and a ready made distribution network of costa nostra crews to move it. They also seemed to have been open to working with African American gangs to further facilitate distribution.
You make money in drugs three ways, distribution (ormento, Nickey Barnes)
Importation/transportation (think MIckey Munday, maybe Carlos Lehder, the Mexicans after Medellin, original Bugs n Meyer gang, though that was liquor)
And production (French Corsicans, Colombians,ect...)
At the time we are discussing, THe five families seem to possess maybe one or two of these components, but DEtroit is seemingly the only one with all three firmly in their control. It seems getting opium from the Middle East was a kind of cutting edge thing, as was previously stated, for years the stuff was coming from China and whatnot, through Jewish gangsters.
I took the three components I listed, and by process of elimination, tried to s e who in New York had all three, to me Joe Adonis looks good for it, but EVEN HE has Detroit ties with ford so....

Ooh, something I left out, apparently Windsor was a huge Hüb for trade, as such it's like Detroit had control over their own dock, maybe they could actually bypass the New York docks, would explain even more...

From what I understand they set up the blueprint for the trans-Atlantic mafia family duplicated first by BOnnano, then GAmbino, then Rizzuto...

Ok, new stuff, looks like from what I've read, Vito had a pipeline getting opium from turkey, and moved it through the KAnsas City family possibly;
Also NEw York appears to have replaced the Far East with Mexico as a source of opiates, BUgsy Siegel looks to be on the scene in Mexico, dope was apparently shipped to new Yorks Harlem wing, Adonis figures heavily as well;
And yet Coppola set up shop in MExico after he was deported, looks like he absorbed the pipeline that buggy and Virginia hill helped set up, any thought on this??

There is testimony from Siragusa to the a Senate Committee that Detroit and St Louis had the largest heroin pipeline and were selling into NY, for a period of time. Not trying to start a pissing match, but what is debatable?

Do you have a link or source for this statement of his?

Here's something...https://books.google.com/books?id=YMpNBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT153&lpg=PT153&dq=siragusa+detroit+mafia&source=bl&ots=ZbQLoBABl2&sig=HfXZG26Iww8DIe-_j9t_6uyL82s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBWoVChMIwLK6u9vSxwIVTBGSCh18oQDQ#v=onepage&q=siragusa%20detroit%20mafia&f=false

Bad link
https://books.google.com/books?id=YMpNBA...fia&f=false

Ugh,the interface slays me, lol..
https://books.google.com/books?id=YMpNBA...fia&f=false

You should start at siragusas empire...

Actually I really recommend you read this book in general, it's dizzying...

Yes. My post on 8/22 has a newspaper article attached reporting on Siragusa's testimony, and my post on 8/25 links to a page written by Scott B.

Thanks. I must have missed it when you posted it. If what Siragusa said was indeed true (they were the chief source of drugs for narcotics peddlers), that's certainly interesting and I stand corrected. However, I still don't see any evidence that this significantly affected the relative power between the NY families. And do we know how long this specific drug ring was in operation?

It's more of a theory than anything, bases off of stuff I've read, trying to make sense of the motivations of the people involved;
Without all that dope money, LUchesse never gets to compete with COstello on the political scene for one; I read that Costello went to the commission to hit Coppola, in like 49 -50' probably thinking, who's this goddamn capo from Detroit ,to be giving me, the head of the strongest family in New York, any kind of shit, right? Seems logical, but imagine how the vote probably went; LUchesse- well, no, he supplies all our dope. Profaci- no, Detroit is my ally, I got two daughter married into that borgata, and Frankie is a key guy, so no. BOnnanno- I'm with don profaci. Magaddino- I'm with my cousin. MAngano- probably goes along with profaci and Bonnano. ST Louis didn't have a vote, but probably raised a stink, Corolla from NO was partners with Coppola, so he probably objects too.
Now imagine you are COstello seeing this, Lucky is away, Albert is only an under, and Vito just got back.
I can see this incident maybe convincing frank that he need more allies on the commission, maybe a catalyst for Mangano brothers getting taken out in 51. Like see the timeline?
Lucky didn't fear PRofaci, yet Luchesse and GAmbino seemed intent upon breaking up the PRofaci, BOnnano, Zerilli alliance, it had to have something to do with the dope, and also the votes on the commission... Thoughts?