Geriatric gangsters

This is something that has really started to interest me. It seems mostly confined to the world of lcn and seems mostly just for Italian and Italian American men but the idea of a 65 70 even 80 year old man committing street crimes I.e murder robbery assault drugs ect is something I just dont get. I'm 28 year old from a city that doesn't have any oc but we have plenty of crime and criminals and I don't wish to classify myself as something I'm not but I've got 15 plus years of street experience and with few exceptions anyone older than 50 still trying to live a criminal lifestyle is drug addicted and almost always severely mentally diminished.

I know there are reasons why it's different in the LCN structure as a lot of the older guys have younger minions to do the heavy lifting and that once a person has been a criminal for 20 years you don't just decide to start a career I get it but there are still plenty of 65 year old knock around guys

I kind of have to disagree here with the older folks being unique to LCN. When I was inside I was with geriatrics who ran criminal enterprises who were Jewish and Russian. One old Jewish guy (and I'm talking about full jew here, not just in name) was 83 years old. You'd be surprised how many 70+ dudes are locked up.

People who grew up in Bumblefuck, Arkansas are surprised by a lot of things. To imply that the only criminals in the senior citizen age range are Italian is actually discriminatory.

Agree people of all races are locked up, some for life.

You really just have to use common sense here. It all comes down to the CRIMINAL MIND Way oF THINKING which has no specific race or age limit.




Lol Bumblefuck...

I don't think I worded or was clear enough in my statement. I understand there a plenty of old people committing crimes and in jail and they are of course career criminals. But most of them that I see as I noted in my initial post they are almost always drug addicted and usually have diminished mental capacities. Im speaking of serious criminals making serious money that generally don't even need to continue lives of crime.

Also off topic but while I'm not from NYC I did grow up in a city with a population of 1.5 million and without posting my criminal resume on a message board have done and seen plenty to feel like I could contribute without being told how little I know in a rude and dismissive manner. None of my previous posts have been anywhere near that of a troll but somehow I'm told I grew up in bumblefuck no where.

Its not you boss, they are not very welcoming of new members here. They think I am this old poster named Jack, they think every new screen name is some sorta of elaborate conspiracy.

Ya I mean I think I've got a lot to offer. I'd never brag about what I've done or seen but I do have real life experience that most here don't have. I've been to ten plus funerals of people 25 and under, been held at gunpoint twice once in my own apt and tied up and pistol whipped repeatedly bc the 8k they already got wasn't enough. But bc I'm not from NYC and don't dickride some 70 year old person that wouldn't stop in the street to say hello I dont have anything to offer.

The whole patriarca family. Theres a few young guys now. But baby shacks was only inducted you once your 65. Read on scotts thing he in a halway house so probaly downtown boston he got it made. I think merlino brought alot of young cats into the fold.

sorry to hear that horror story. if you dont mind me asking where youre from?
not sure what you meant by dickride a 70 year old?

Eh, the old coots I met weren't dopers and definitely had all their marbles. Some had wear and tear from doing 20+ years, but mostly all of em were sharp as a tack.
Know what type of guys were the most unstable? Middle aged white collar guys. They were some pill-poppin, psych med heads. Ever see pics of chin when he was bathrobed up, giant oversized wool hat, slippers, the whole bit? That's what these guys looked like.

Those are the guys who end up picking up their own shit out of the bowl and playing with it. Sometimes they throw it at the hacks. Like monkeys at the zoo.

I mean, I think one of the differences between CN guys and other groups is they still have criminal networks to go back to when they get out of prison.

You'd never brag about what you've done or seen, yet that whole post was about things that you've "supposedly" been through or seen happen? I'm not from New York, either, but that hasn't been a problem for me (or any other posters here). We've got well respected posters here from England, Europe, and the rest of the world!

By the way, welcome to the board. And I'll give you a little advice - attacking people, name calling, and stories probably won't earn you a very good reputation here. It's been done on repeat a million times over. I'm not saying you're not a tough guy from the street, but there is no way to prove it here. Enjoy the topics and the conversations, that's what we're all here for. Also, calling someone a "dickrider" who is one of the most well respected and reputable posters here won't score you many points, either.

BELANI got you too, huh?

Another one bites the dust !

Krsheely, Youre right, being pistol whipped, robbed, held at gunpoint on several occasions and attending 10 funerals doesn't sound like much to brag about-I wouldnt go putting that lottery ticket on any time soon...

As for not dickriding 70 year olds gangsters, half your posts so far sound like youre looking for new names or ideas to specifically "dickride"? Just saying....

Just a bit of advice, ignore no problem, but try not to shoot in your pants over a comment or 2 you don't like...on here or in the wild west - or wherever it is you live

I'd like to mention something, anything bad that happend to me was because I was doing something I shouldn't have so I ask for no sympathy.
Also I am new here and think I may have been over sensitive so I'll back off.

But I know I've read it before that the average age of the Genovese family is 60 plus at least and with 200 plus members. That's like a decent sized senior facility where all of its residents are stone gangsters, that's all I'm saying that is not a common things. I'm sure if arrest records for major crimes are researched for all races and ethnicities tha average age would fall far below 60. So yes I do consider having that many senior gangsters still active to be an odd occurence

Sonny Franzese was sentenced for shake down a strip cub and he is in his 90s but but this is an exception, any criminals over 70 or are retired or if has to commit violent crimes makes them do it to someone else (such as a 70 years old shylock certainly can't break the legs especially if the target was young and strong) for the Patriarcas,the made men are old but I think the family is full of young and strong associates.

Genovese typically make guys later too, as in late 40's-early 50's - some not even that early. With guys these days regularly making it to their seventies and eighties it's no surprise that the average age of the family is eligible for social security.

I get that but I mean the rest of the five families aren't young guys either and not to mention places like Chicago. But it seems that it's almost like being made is a retirement because you wouldn't be forced to go out and do any of the young mans crimes? You could send an associate.

Something another poster said also rings true in that LCN guys have a stable structure in place to come back to once released or even say if the cops break p one racket there are other rackets available most "regular" criminals have one thing they do that brought them there successes and most times if that gets shut down rarely do they rise that high again with something different usually they turn back to not so successful ventures and constantly talk of what they did at one time back in the day

One of the perks of being made.

well i would call that a promotion rather than a retirement

I think it also demonstrates just how unique the mafia really is

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot, son. You're 28, I'm almost 56, which makes me exactly twice your age. And whether or not you've been inside yourself has no absolutely no bearing on the two points I want to make to you. Are you ready?

a) Guys who love to keep telling prison war stories aren't done going to prison yet.

b) Whenever you talk about an old crime, you're actually committing it again. Especially in this day and age when you don't need the feds to get wired up. Any shithead with an iPhone can throw you in a jackpot today.

Food for thought from a cranky old man. Welcome to the boards .

PB

Its typical in NY and Organized Crime. And jt isn't just the LCN either. As mentioned, the Jews, the Russians, even the black gangsters, the real black gangsters who still prefer to wear suits instead of jeans and a t-shirt are typically older individuals. These are guys who spent majority of their lives in the world of crime, they have experience. Experience leads to longevity because you're smarter than the average two bit punk. And aren't going to go around bragging about your criminal offenses. And they usually aren't the ones going out on making drug deals, robbing, killing and scheming. They have younger guys who are willing to learn in criminal ways, go out and do those things for them.

Like I said, every time you talk about a former crime, you're committing it again. It's the assholes who love telling war stories who get caught in the revolving door of doing life on the installment plan.

When I was referring to the type of criminal that likes to sit back and talk of what they did before I wasn't talking about true experienced oc criminals I was talking about the one crime wonders who were big or even just moderatly successful for a 3 year period 30 years ago but still speak of it like they were a boss still. And generally no one in law enforcement cares enough about them to do anything.

I would argue one point though, if you are a criminal of any kind at all in the year 2015 and have been at it as long as some of these guys you are gonna get locked up. People think gigante was pretty smart and he spent his last 30 plus years being as cautious as could be and he died in a hospital prison just like gotti.

The only chance you have is to get legit and stay legit as soon as you can and hope your old associates stay out of trouble and don't rat

And PB while not my first post we did get off to a not so great start. While I'm fairly new to this forum I'm a member of and reader of enough forums to know not to pick a fight with the most respected poster and expect to stay around very long so I wanna back up and apologize.
But on the same token while I'm only 28 I do have a lot of life experience and I don't think any of my topics have been lacking in thoughtfulness nor have the been unreasonable so I did get offended a little but I am a big boy and know how to fit in so we are good.

I just think of my father 61 and while he has stories of being wild back in his day he grew up got married got a degree and provided well for his four kids. I just couldn't picture him ordering a degenerate gamblers legs broken or shaking down a business and he is one of the strongest willed, toughest and smartest people I know

I don't argue the point that if you go around breaking the law today, you're going to get caught. It's inevitable.

But Gotti and Gigante are apples and oranges. Gigante was a powerhouse skipper from the day he walked out of prison on the drug beef in '62 or '63. He had a 35-year run as a skipper and then a boss, and spent his last eight years in prison. Gotti was a thug who had a four-year run as a boss, spent half his life in jail, and bragged about how prison didn't bother him. Which brings me back to my original point.

Also Id like to add that I do not think its all that common for other oc groups to have members who are 60 or 70 plus and certainly not groups that have that high of average age. When I have the time I'll try and research arrest stats and I think they will back me up. 40 or so year olds I could see. 70 plus I truly think is unique to LCN and possibly some of the older Jewish associates. Tbh I think the senior citizen gangster of different ethnic backgrounds is something only seen in movies. I do respect the opinion of anyone who wouldn't agree with this statement.

There are better examples than gotti and chin. I used them simpy because people know them but yes I most certainly agree probably not the best example. Though would you agree that if chin had started as boss in 2010 instead of 1980 or whenever he did I don't think he would have lasted as long

It's maybe the TYPE of crimes as well, generally. Gangbangers etc are possibly involved in crimes/situations where they are far more likely to be killed earlier? Perhaps it's the case you're slightly more likely to live longer if your involved in organised crime, as opposed to fairly "disorganised" crime?

None of them would have. You have to remember that when CN got off in the '20s and '30s, it was the perfect storm for them to turn it into a nationwide behemoth. Prohibition, crooked Tammany Hall politicians, an FBI that denied the Mafia's existence, and on and on and on.

If ANY of those old timers had to deal with RICO, and CSI teams, and sophisticated audio and video surveillance, and GPS tracking, and the Witness Protection Program, and on and on and on, it would have been over before it started. And, oh yeah, under those circumstances, one of them would have flipped. No doubt in my mind.

It's like comparing athletes from different eras. You can wax nostalgic all you want. But it really can't be done.

This is one area where we are in complete agreement, not a single one of them would of made it. Hell a lot of them still went to prison in the era. Also I doubt very much that the agreement Luciano crafted would have ever flown in today's political climate. I think that is an understated cause for the downfall of certain oc groups while I do believe that most politicians are still corrupted in some form it's not from Frankie your friendly local neighborhood wise guy. It's in the form of special interest groups and big busines ceos.

That oath use to have A LOT more meaning to the old schoolers...... Once they started using crunched up Kleenex to substitute a picture of a saint, how can anyone take that seriously?

"May you burn like this Kleenex if you betray your friends!"

Gigante had a liveable release date too, Gotti was thrown under the fucking jail.

Not saying this is the case, but it seems you're referring to common gangbangers and drug pushers who live by the day, I'm not referring to those types at all. I know drug guys who are in they're 60's going strong that my grandfather came up with who aren't Italian or Jewish, serious guys that you'd never know what they were unless someone of a similar age group told you so. And if they did, they wouldn't say "hey, he's a major heroin supplier", it'd be something subtle like "you see that man, he was around when I was still doing what I did, serious guy, nothing like these ignorant guys you see running around", or like my grandfather likes to tell me "thats a REAL gangster". And you're just left to wonder "well who the fuck is that?"...And they don't have these big organizations, at least I don't think so, but hell if I know, but they mostly keep to themselves and a select group of people, in their late 30's or so.

Very true. I've been saying it here for years. The Genovese family was the first to see the power of the plea bargain, and the inevitability of having it become the norm as opposed to the exception. This is a family that will kill you for NOT taking a plea. Gotti was too batshit anti-government for his own good.