Inaccuracies in Organized Crime Books

Sometimes spelling inaccuracies, grammar, false information gets so bad in this genre in the book department. As I stated in another thread which reminded me of this annoying facet, I own roughly 50-60 organized crime books (around 50 hard copies and 10-12 kindle). I think all but one or two have obvious and embarassing spelling errors. Sometimes incorrect spelling and grammar are combined with false information making you want to throw the book down.

Examples:

Lion in the Basement (horrible book anyways, horrible plot, too many errors to count)

Any book by Philip Carlo

Castellano is spelled "Castalano" in "The Company She Keeps" by Georgia Durante

The list goes on and on...Post any books and the inaccuracies they have in this thread

In Philip Carlo's books (and some others too), many soldiers are automatically upped to the rank of "capo" to increase their importance.

In Manhattan Mafia Guide by Eric Ferrara it says the DiPalermo brothers allegiance was to the Bonanno Family. Incorrect.

Inaccuracies are the rule, not the exception, in OC books. Part of it is because OC people aren't the types to leave their collected papers and letters to college and university libraries for people like us to peruse. Very few have ever sat for interviews, and those who did (like Joe Colombo and Joey Gallo) paid the price. So, OC writers tend to be tabloid journalism types, who just run with what they think they have, and play for sensationalism.



That's standard procedure for the (mostly) hack writers who write about OC. Case in point: Hank Messick wrote a book on Meyer Lansky, claiming he was the boss of OC in America and was "worth $300 million." Robert Lacey, one of the very few competent writers in this genre, and the author of the outstanding"Little Man - Meyer Lansky and the Gangster Life," questioned Messick about that figure. Messick told Lacey that he'd heard that figure second- or third-hand and ran with it because it was "an impressive number." Lacey did solid research and found that Lansky, at his peak, was worth no more than $5 -6 million--not chickenfeed, but hardly the stuff of $300 million. But that big figure stuck with Lansky, and it was responsible for the Justice Department hounding him for years.

either in Made Men by Greg Smith or Manhattan Mafia Guide by Eric Ferrara it says that the reason Gaspipe was named Gaspipe was because his father owned a gas company. Incorrect. Everyone knows why his father was called gaspipe.

Right, I was gonna say which I forgot to mention to theorize in my original post was that the reason as you summarized was because a lot of it is left to the imagination and there is no paper trail so a lot of it is hearsay. Good example with Meyer Lanksy.

You better make a thread called "Accuracies in Organized Crime Books" so we can point out the shit they actually get right.

Likely to be a very short thread...

More about Lansky:

Lansky tried for Israeli citizenship in the early '70's. He was denied, but he appealed to Israel's High Court. While his appeal was working through the court, he thought it would be helpful to allow an Israeli journalist, Uri Dan, to write an "authorized" biography of him. Dan didn't know anything about US organized crime, and he was gaga that the Great Meyer was "telling all" . So Lansky BS'd him up, down and sideways:

Lansky told him that Abner (Longy) Zwillman, the undisputed boss of Newark NJ "ran with my gang when we were teenagers." Oh, Meyer: In order for Zwillman to "run with your gang when you were teenagers," and before the Lincoln and Holland tunnels, and the Washington Bridge were built between NJ and NY, Zwillman would have had to take a bus, a subway, a ferry and two more buses to get to NY's Lower East Side to "run with your gang"--at least a two-hour-plus commute each way.

Lansky also told Dan that he and Bugsy Siegel were great pals of Al Capone because Bugsy "sheltered Capone in his house on 14th Street in 1919," while Capone was on the lam, and just before he left for Chicago. Lansky said Bugsy bought Capone's train ticket. Yeah, Meyer. Right, Meyer. Sure, Meyer: Bugsy Siegel, born February 29, 1906, was all of 13 years old in 1919. Know any 13-year-olds who own houses on 14th Street? And where did Bugsy get the money for Snorky's train ticket to Chicago? From his Bar Mitzvah money?

Gimme a break...

Solid info Turnbull..I recall reading The Last Mafioso by Ovid Demaris and from my limited knowledge I didng notice amy glaring errors in that book and I mentioned on another thread "i heard you paint houses" and "five families" not having any glaring errors and bein two of my favs, but maybe u or someone else can correct me on that

Solid point by Extortion tho like dont these book companies employ editors to check this shit I mean the genre is called "true crime"

Yes, Five Families is the ONLY book I've come across that doesn't have spelling errors or at least of what we know false information either.

I have found Raab to CONSISTENTLY be the best OC writer/historian...IMO he is superior to Capeci/Anastasia as those guys seem to be more motivated by $$/hype than just mere facts.

Five Families has plenty of spelling errors. Minor ones, but spelling error's nonetheless. He also pushes the theory that Vito Genovese had Peter LaTempa killed, and inaccurately states that LaTempa had enough poison in his system to kill 8 horses. Which is factually incorrect. LaTempa's autopsy report stated that his stomach contents were simply barbiturates, barbiturates that LaTempa had been prescribed for his stomach issue, and that the amount of them in his system at the time of his death wasn't anything abnormal.

I can speak to this with some authority.

On typos, etc. - that is a product of the editor and way books are published. Things get rushed through the process. At some point, as an author, you've gone through the book so many times and ran spell check that you can't do it anymore and need a professional editor to hack it up. Some are better than others. My editor for The Silent Don did a great job. My current editor for Cocktail Noir, is fantastic. It really depends. And it's not just mob books, it's all books.

Some typos do not get picked up by spellcheck. My two big typos are typing "form" instead of "from", and dropping an "s" from a previous word onto the beginning of the word "in", which is 'sin'-spelled correctly!

Accuracy - The field of mob writing is constantly shifting with new information, new 'rats', new people coming forward. The narrative often changes, as do the facts. Generally it's minor stuff, but sometimes not. You are always limited by the information you have available to you as a researcher or writer.

Sometimes it's lazy research for sure. Sometimes it's not vetting sources you cite. But most of the time, it's because you have limited information at the time you write.

Yes, LaTempa´s death was most likely a result of suicide. Just like ScottD mentioned above, new information is always coming out and rebukes earlier information we thought was correct. It´s not an easy task for an author to pin down a 100 percent accurate mob book, if the author has access to only limited information. Five Familes is an excellent book overall but there are inaccurracies in it too, just like any other mob book, especially the parts where the book deals with the early stuff.

@ScottD: i've recently read "Silent Don", great book overall! There are rumors that ragano was much more involved in criminal activity with trafficante as he'd ever admitted, what are you thinking on this matter? I haven't read his "mob lawyer" book yet, but i dont think there is sth. in i dont know yet.
Do you have any new books coming out this year?

mickey2 - Thanks for the praise on The Silent Don. I think Ragano was likely involved more than he let on in the early years. I do know he tried to distance himself in later years and was forced into representing Trafficante again.

My new book will be out in the fall.

Cocktail Noir http://www.amazon.com/Cocktail-Noir-Scott-Deitche/dp/194194700X

scott any luck with cadilac franks book aint he down the cape. the storys been beat to death but i would give it a read. and if limone steps down that guy vinny could take the seat i think but would pass. when that guy spunky gonna plead out for the joker machines.

No plans on a Cadillac Frank book. Next book is re-pitching my Jersey mob history and a few others.

I remember reading something plausible about Lansky , I don't know maybe it isn't , but the writer obviously said his wealth was way overstated but that he still died a well off man , can't remember the exact number but something like $10M or so , maybe less . Anyway because of the biz he was in , most of his assisted assets had to be in someone else's name and I think Meyers brother ended up with a lions share and he ran off with it , stiffing Meyers daughter and others .

Outside of dying broke which I have some doubt with as Meyer was smart and likey would have been investing his illegit $ into some legit stuff over a # of years , the above story sounds like something that was probably a somewhat frequent Occurance in his line of work

According to Robert Lacey, his biographer, Lansky was worth no more than $5 - 6 million at his peak, and substantially less over his later years because the Justice Dept. kept hounding him, which limited his ability to operate his usual rackets. His legal fees in his unsuccessful appeal of Israel's denial of his citizenship request, and his successful defense of four felony charges against him when he returned to the US, drained his assets. According to Lacey, he blew his last $50 grand on an unsuccessful operation to correct a chronic neurological condition in his ne'er do well son, Buddy. After his death, his widow, Teddy, though he must have had a lot of money stashed away somewhere, but neither she, nor Vincent (Jimmy Blue Eyes) Alo were able to find it. As far as I know, his brother, Jake, was always loyal to him.

This may have been brought up before,but I've always thought that the story of bugging Castellano's house was a good example of the BS content in Mob books. One version involved breaking in and planting a bug disguised as a floor lamp. I think this was in "Mob Star". The other version (might have been Boss of Bosses,not sure) involved a fake TV repair done under the nose of Tommy Billoti.

I can see minor differences in narratives,but these are two diametrically opposed stories.

Does anybody have any insight as to which of the two is accurate,or is there yet another story?

The book Mob And The City, which is still a fairly recent book, and came along after "The Five Families", by C. Alexander Hortis, disputes exactly what I said. Not that his death wasn't a suicide, but that his body didn't contain "enough poison to kill eight horses" which is whats stated by Raab. And that book uses documentation, police files, toxicology reports as well as articles to support whats said in it. Not saying the Raabs doesn't as I know it does. But a more recent book uses actual documents and rules Raabs claim as a misinterpretation of facts. LaTempa's body only contained his prescribed medication.


And I agree. As great as a book that Five Families is, it contains errors, just like any other. That's kind of the point I was trying to make with that post.

One of the most inaccurate books I read on Organized Crimes was Goombata: The Improbable Rise and Fall of John Gotti and His Gang" a book so poorly researched that John Gotti himself made mention of the fact that they got the birth country of origin of his father incorrect. I came across several examples of inaccuracies before I got to the third chapter.

ive read raganos book "mob lawyer" the most astonishing thng about this book is raganos take on the jfk murder. ragano says trafficante told him in a deathbed confession that trafficante and carlos narcello conspired to murder the president.

also ragano says jimmy hoffa told him to ask Marcello and trafficante to arrange the killing of kennedy.

interesting read, later ragano got on the wrong side of trafficante, and his wife despised him.[ trafficante]

i know, i saw his interview. its also on youtube. and its mentioned in various jfk books, also in lamar waldrons book which i recommend on the jfk matter

mickey, what's the name of lamar waldrons book ? I want to read it.

there you go binnie.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hidden-History-JFK-Assassination/dp/161902439X

Business or blood states george from canada was killed for what he said about the drug use of a gambino...not true it was tg from bonannos. Many other flaws in this book.

ive read it, it shows how the FBI and CIA lied to the warren commission, and gave them really nothing. Oswald was a CIA trained operative. but, that's for another thread, you and I are on the same page regarding the assassination.

Frank Ragano was either simply wrong or out and out lied in his book "Mob Lawyer" when he said Trafficante confessed to him while in his (Ragano's) car while in Tampa four days before Trafficante died. Trafficante was getting dialysis treatments in Miami -- almost 300 miles away -- then was taken to a Houston hospital where he died. Trafficante's daughters said it never happened since he couldn't have been in Tampa. Ragano said there were three people who would verify his story, but when challenged couldn't name them. So either he got the date and location totally confused (but refused to admit his mistakes) or lied to market the book.

ok, but, what do you make of the assertion that carlos Marcello confessed to an fbi informant that he had kennedy killed,

this information gathered by the fbi in a project known as camtex, this has appeared in a number of recent books.

can you research this? im only repeating what ive recently read. "the hidden history of the jfk assassination" by lamar Waldron.

Marcello said to investigator Ed Becker in 1962 that he was going to kill JFK. Years later, not long before he died (Becker died a couple of years ago), he was asked what he though Marcello meant. In his opinion he said Marcello was angry and said it to vent, but he didn't believe Marcello was involved. There's also an FBI document where Marcello, when he was in prison in the 1980s, told a couple other prisoners that he killed JFK. The FBI tried to blow it off by saying he was going senile, but others pointed out that he didn't start to go senile until after his stroke in 1987 or 89.

A number of Chicago guys also claim Mob involvement. One version is that Giancana arranged it with Marcello. Giancana provided the shooters and Marcello provided the patsy. In this version the shooter was Richard Cain and with him was Charles Nicoletti and Milwaukee Phil. Others include Johnny Rosselli. Both of Sam Giancana's brothers, Chuck and Peppe, say that Sam told them all this. Bill Bonanno said that while in prison out of the blue Rosselli told him he killed Kennedy. There are other Outfit guys who also said that the Outfit killed him.

Ralph Salerno, on the other hand, said he went through all of the FBI transcripts and saw nothing to indicate any Mob connection. Salerno, a NYPD detective and organized crime specialist, testified before the 1979 Committee on Investigations. FBI agent Bill Roemer said essentially the same thing. I have a lot of FBI files and I didn't see anything either, but I also notice that there are a lot of gaps. Rosselli's file, for example, has a gap from early November to the end of December, 1963. So where are the rest of the transcripts? The FBI still holds back a lot and they've also destroyed a lot of files (plus a large storage facility was flooded and many files were unintentially destroyed).

So we have to separate the real claims from the frauds if we want to get to the truth. Ragano is one we can dismiss, same with James Files, who is a proven liar. That's not even his real name. Even if we can get to the truth, and let's say the Outfit and Marcello really did it, I don't think we're ever going to find proof. It's all hearsay. No Mob guy ever testified under oath that they did it, there may not be any bug or wiretap recordings confirming involvement, it's just one person telling another that these guys did it. Even then, can we prove that Richard Cain or some other mobster actually fired a shot that hit JFK? Maybe they went to the grassy knoll and just watched while Oswald did all the shooting. Maybe one of them fired a shot but missed.

We have to remember that Kennedy's route was only decided on November 18 and made public a day or two after that, so if mobsters were there they only had a day or two to decide where to plant themselves on a very high profile case. On top of that they would have had to sneak rifles to an outside area where they could have been seen by others. These out of town guys from Chicago would have had to canvass the area to find the right location, then they would have to arrange to sneak away with their weapons while the police, FBI and Secret Service would immediately start looking for the shooter or shooters. When you consider all that it creates some serious doubts that it would have been possible for Mob guys to have actually done anything.

Random but Also fact on kennedy..he was gonna print money just like lincoln...federal reserve illuminati bankers playing both sides again like every modern war...that time i think with the distaste the mob had and their reasons possibly

faithful 1- great info, as always, you research and one can take it to the bank.

thank you.

Binnie, thanks for the compliment. Right now my current leaning is that LHO was the shooter and there was no other. Maybe the Outfit had a plan to kill JFK, but I don't see how they could have actually done it, logistically. All the available ballistic evidence connects the bullets and casings to the Carcano rifle LHO owned. So I don't know. Maybe the Mob guys just took credit for something they didn't do. At this point I don't know how to explain it. I'll keep researching it though, as time permits. I am keeping an open mind.

oh my god. how are you able to still believe that nonsense in 2015?

Is the best you got to insult someone's intelligence? Have you done the amount of research I have, if any at all?

for the sake of peace, i apologize. Even if i find your post more offensive/agressive than mine, but maybe thats just me.
I would be very honored to know why you believe that LHO was the lone shooter. Thanks in advance.

Faithful1, even though you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter, do you think he followed orders or acted on his own?

Marcello had a legitimate grudge against the Kennedy Administration. Like other Mafiosi, he had entered the US illegally through Tunis, which had a substantial Sicilian population decades ago. He had enough money and legal muscle to avoid deportation--all he had to do was show up at the New Orleans INS office quarterly with his lawyer. But in his first visit in '61 (first during JFK presidency), he was met by Federal marshals. They found that he had a phony Guatemalan passport, so they "deported" him to Guatemala by handcuffing him and flying him to Guatemala City in a gov't plane. The Guatemalan gov't declared him "persona non grata" and "deported" him to El Salvador. They did the same, and dumped him in a jungle just over the border in Honduras, where he was expected to die. He somehow traversed 10 miles of jungle and found a village, and eventually got back to the US. As soon as he did, the gov't charged him with evading $850k in taxes, entering the US illegally, and more. So, Marcello had motivation for revenge.

But, motivation alone doesn't prove that he arranged JFK's assassination. Other mobsters had motivation. So did Castro. So did others. But there's no proof that any of them did it.

I want to be very careful in what I say: The available, verifiable evidence does not support a conspiracy in the JFK assassination. But, it's what we don't know and probably never will know due to the passage of time--that stops me short of saying the case is closed.

mickey, I guess you and I are the only ones who believe that Oswald didn't act alone. I was mistaken when I said I read the book you gave me a link on.

the newest one I read was "a cruel and shocking act" by Philip shenon. I have on order " the hidden history of the kennedy assassination"

and just got done reading " who really killed kennedy" by Jerome corsi,

thank you for the link, and I recommend the books by corsi. and and shenon.

In manhattan mafia guide it says under the tommy eboli section vito genovese went to prison in 1969 instead of 1959

Okay, but there was nothing in my post that was aggressive and I don't know what was offensive about it. I've been reading about the JFK assassination since the 1970s and for a long time did lean more to the Mafia-conspiracy side. I also like to give a fair reading to all sides and see who has the more convincing arguments. Most recently I have been reading both Anthony Summer's book on the assassination as well as Bugliosi's anti-conspiracy book. Both books have their pros and cons, but I think both represent their sides well. Summers has a tendency to jump to conclusions and to count rumors as evidence while Bugliosi is arrogant, often overstates his cases and thinks he knows more than he really does. As an example, Summers is the one who really put out the claim that Hoover was a drag queen, but the person making the claim had no credibility and this story was refuted by Ronald Kessler. Bugliosi has a chapter on the Mafia that is chock full or historical errors, and he leaves out certain Mob connections that Jack Ruby had, probably because he was unaware of them. Bugliosi also claims that the American Mafia has never taken out politicians since 1890, but I know for a fact that the Outfit has taken out quite a few. If any Family was unafraid of hitting a politician it was Chicago.

I also have Lamar Waldron's "Ultimate Sacrifice," John F. Davis, Gerald Posner, Robert Blakey and others. I don't just read them, but I follow up their sources. David Talbot of Salon magazine, himself a conspiracy theorist, debunked much of "Ultimate Sacrifice" in a review that's posted on Amazon. The only part of the review that I disagree with is when he chided the authors for not revealing certain names because they haven't been released. He said that after all this time the info should be out there, but in fact the CIA isn't releasing the last of its material until 2017. The Kennedy family also is keeping a lot of material closed to the public until 2025 (I think).

I cannot deny that there are a number of mobsters who claim that Marcello and Giancana did it and I would be dishonest if I did. They had the means and the motive, but the opportunity was limited. At this point, for me to believe that Outfit guys actually did it, someone would have to explain to me in a reasonable way how they could have done it logistically and how there's no forensic evidence for it. Despite my leanings, I also stating that I'm keeping an open mind and am willing to read different points of view. I don't see how anyone could take offense to that.

Probably means nothing but Chuck Nicoletti's FBI file has not been cleared for public release. The guy has been dead almost forty years. Just interesting to me.

yes, snakes it is strange that it took so long to be made public, maybe there is something to the story of his involvement in the jfk murder. maybe, but maybe not.

he was murdered I think close to when giancana, and roselli were hit. toodoped had a real good take on him. he was a real cold outfie assassin.

do you have any thoughts on why he was murdered?

I guess 40 years isn't long enough..lol. Anything interesting would probably be redacted anyway. The govn't would not cover up for gangsters, that's for sure.

I think it was Outfit related. He was a potential challenge to Aiuppa and Cerone's power.

ok, thank you snakes. then we rule out the kennedy thing with nicoletti.

Well, I can't say for sure but I am sort of in the same boat as Antilliar concerning the JFK assassination.

Dont forget me


Regarding the murder of Nicoletti,i didnt find any solid proof that shows he was potential challenge to Aiuppa's power.He and Aiuppa were very close and made a lot of money together.Maybe the only thing was Nicoletti's desire to be involved in the narcotics racket, which some Outfit guys were involved at the time.Nicoletti's mian rival was Gus Alex so i think that Alex pushed for his death.And i think that two of the main factors for the deaths of Giancana and Roselli was their previous involvment with the cia,which was very real, and possibly their alleged involvment in the jfk hit.I dont belive in some stories that Giancana wanted to take over again because he was deported by force to the U.S.He never wanted to return,he had the cash and enjoyed his life in Mexico.Roselli had a big mouth, which i belive was the reason for his death.

As i said before ,i cannot consider their deaths,including Nicoletti's, that occured before or during the investigations as a coincidences.Maybe they were not directly involved or maybe they had only infos about what really happend?All i know they were chosen(not by coincidence)to be questioned because they knew something...

Imagine if they talked for example.The whole Outfit and the national mob was going to be executed by the government and the people immediately...so thats why the top Outfit guys had to kill these certain members because they didint want to take a risk.The whole Outfit was not involved in these operations,just certain members

thats not the question. the question is conspiracy or not, as you state LHO was the lone shooter, which would be implying that there were NO conspiracy. Or do i get anything wrong what've said? The actual shooter could be anyone, unpossible to prove to this day. Since oct 2017 is scheduled to release the last remaining somewhat held back ~3600 documents, i hope they shed new light on this.
There is no question in my mind, that atleast Roselli was heavily involved in the assassination. He had so much connections and ties to and within the CIA, its nearly impossible to overlook. Iam much less sure about Trafficante - there is nearly nothing which can be resarched on him. Also Giancana, those wiretaps of him discussing the shooting with other outfit guys somehow gives him an Alibi, since he just sounds impressed by LHO shooting skills..
If Marcello was the Mastermind, my current state of mind says yes. CAMTEX and other files strongly imply this, this is no steam blown off. And just Ed Becker didn't believe it proves nothing. Also, he was in numerous documentarys and in those he sounded nothing at all disbeliefing that marcello was kennedys killer.
To Nicoletti, as already mentioned, all of these guys have gaps in exactly those timeperiod (oct/nov-dec) or the entire file is still under lock. Which also says a lot.There is no hard evidence that nicoletti was at this day in dallas, atleast not known to me.

What left is all those mysteries around the body, and nobody is more well-versed about all those cover-ups than douglas horne, staff member of the Assassination Records Review Board in the mid-90's. Here is his complete lecture on the assassination:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svDEw3Jgkw8

Nicley said mickey. For me the main proof for conspiracy is Ruby's involvment.Lenny Patrick and Dave Yaras both admitted that they knew him and the Warren commission belived that they havent spoken to Ruby in years.I find that very funny because both of 'em obviosly lied.Especially Patrick who in later years lied on many trials just to save his own ass. Also i highly doubt that the government will release any conspiracy evidences in 2017.They just wont do it.Also thanks for the video

Ive got one.Philip Carlo said the famous Manganos Democratic club was on union st betwen 4th and 5th ave in Brooklyn,but i found somewhere that it wasnt really on union st but a diffrent location.
Does somebody knows where it really was?

@toodoped:
we live in interesting times! The gov is forced to release those files unless a direct decree by the president! himself prevents it. But i don't think this will happen..
There are endless, and i mean ENDLESS proofs that the WC was a fraud, that evidence was destroyed intentionally even it was prohibited by law, that key evidence is missing, and so on.

i also want to share one of kennedys last speeches, he is talking about peace, maybe one of the reasons he was killed. Great speech, even 50yrs later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fkKnfk4k40

I read the Cia has the option to prevent the release of those files if they choose. There's probably nothing there we don't already know. If there was a conspiracy there won't be any paper trail, just more clues if any. As far as Ruby, I think he may have been inserted into the equation to create another rabbit hole or muddy the waters.

Nearby at 367 Clinton st. in Brooklyn.

Oh,if you dont mind telling me how did you stamble on that info im curious.Thanks

The problem with Ruby is that he was basically a bum and not necessarily someone whom a criminal empire would rely on to carry out a hit. Then again, he was expendable.

I've seen it in a couple of sources. In the 6th paragraph of the following article you can find the address:

http://www.transportworkers.org/node/1618

This may be hard to read but it's also in this article:

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%205/B...%20-%203209.pdf

He wasn't a bum, he ran a successful nightclub. Some made guys probably couldn't even do that..Not to say he wasn't a jerkoff but..

In manhattan mafia guide it also says galante was a consigliere at some point which i don't believe is true...I don't think consigliere would ever fit someone like galante to begin with however bonanno wanted his son as consigliere or at least his loyalists did...

Yes it does say that,but look up google maps it's a residental building.Hard to belive it was a club.Carlo's address seems more likely.

Newspaper articles from the 1940's and reliable authors say Clinton street. All the reporters from the same time period can't be wrong. I kind of see your point but I don't see why a brownstone couldn't be used.

Yes you are right,it does say Mangano owned that building.The tenament building on that address was built early 20th century,because of that information i thought the club was not there,but whos to say it wasnt on the first floor of the residental building.
Great reaserch ht2.

Maybe someone like hairyk or faithful1 can confirm but that's most likely where it was located. There's also the possibility it later moved to the location mentioned in Carlo's book.

The City Democratic Club was indeed located at 367 Clinton Street. It´s possible I guess that it was later moved to another location but Carlo´s books are riddled with factual errors, so perhaps we shouldn´t count on that it moved to the place he said.

There were several Democratic Clubs in Brooklyn I think but the one we are discussing here was formed in 1929 and functioned as meeting place for the top guys within the six ILA locals and some of Brooklyn´s most prominent Mafia guys (among them Vincent Mangano, John Giustra, Profaci, Anastasia, Joe Adonis and others). The Club was also a channel for controlling political life in several Brooklyn districts.

Yes that is the one we are talking about,thanks HK great info as always.I offten wonder where was the epicenter of mafia activity in Brooklyn back in those days,guess it was near the waterfront.What do you guys think?

I don't think we can say there was a single center of Mafia activities in Brooklyn then since all five Families had a presence there, especially Profaci, Mangano and Bonanno. If you go back far enough the center was in South Brooklyn.

Yes thats what I was thinking of,guess later we would have to say Bensonhurst and Bath beach.

Getting back to the JFK assassination, I found this video published last year on YouTube. It's from a program at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas and was recorded in 2013. It's an interview of the first family to have been interviewed following the assassination, reunited 50 years later. It shows them being questioned by the curator in 2013 and by an interviewer in 1963. It was shown on CSPAN. So it's a legitimate source. What's interesting is that they all say they heard the shots coming from the grassy hill area, and they said this just after the shooting and still say it today, so I find them very credible. [Edit: I wrote the above before watching all of the video; when asked directly they say either Oswald did it alone or Oswald did it and so did someone else. The thing that the father is consistent about is that he thought the bullets came from behind, but isn't more specific than that.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxeE1GXSCT8

I also viewed a couple videos of former FBI agents who were there, including Zach Shelton, who was later in Chicago and was mentioned in Frank Calabrese Jr.'s book. He shows how evidence was tampered with. So does former agent Don Adams. However, Adams' theory is that a guy connected to an ex-Klansman did it.

So at this point my leaning is a little less toward the "Oswald did it" theory.

Wish I could get Nicoletti's file, since that could possibly help, but it's hard to say. I have Cain's file and it doesn't even start until 1968. And yes, Cain was made and he was a CI to Roemer. Cain also lied in claiming he was full Italian; he was only Italian on his mother's side, but he fooled Roemer and others, telling him that he was born in Italy. Vital records and the book by his brother prove that he wasn't.

What sources state that he was made? Not disagreeing but I am just interested to see.

I think that Cain was brought in by Pat Marcy during the early 1950's and the FBI considered him as a made member. He was also direct with Giancana,Marcy and another guy from the Capone era and member of the First Ward, Buddy Jacobson.

It says in his file that he was made and sponsored by Giancana.