Was Carlo Gambino a coward.

Was Carlo Gambino a coward.

I know he was at the top but have seen from time to time big Neil had more balls.

Yeah, he was a regular sissy...

Yes, when the Gambino 's were at the height of their strength, they said " hey, we need a new boss but he needs to be a coward, lets ask Carlo".

Carlo was scared of mices

Well, techinically every boss can be considered a coward from a certain point of view, because they don't face their victims directly but send hitmen instead, while providing for themselves an alibi. Only Vincent Basciano participated in a hit personally as a boss, as far as I know.

Neil had balls BUT to be honest not much brains. He was a well respected street guy but he was in and out of jail a lot and he didnt understand white collar crimes. Carlo was one of the smarter bosses of all time. He understood that as a boss you need to be respected but also stay in the shadows. Keep in mind i dont respect any gangster

I don't understand how people think because a guy is old and a boss that they weren't involved in "heavy work" in their younger years. Gambino would not have gotten to where he were if he was a coward. It took balls to go against Anastasia, and take over the family. He had brain and brawn. Carlo Gambino was no coward.

He walked tall and carried a big stick.

Bravery is subjective. Only an insecure idiot feels the need to go around beating people to prove how tough they are. Put it a different way: what kind of man goes around dishing out uneccesary beatings?

Here's wha it means to have balls: whacking Albert Anastasia, Armand Rava, and John Riccobono all in one go. Here's what it means to have confidence: Making peace with Neil Dellacroce after killing his beloved mentor (rava).

I ust woke up so if this doesnt make any sense ill elaboraet

Carlo was afraid of the dark. He slept with a night light that said "Kiss Me, I'm Italian." He won it at the water gun-balloon game at the Giglio Feast.

The best answer on this thread so far.The End

According to Joe Bonnano, he had a reputation for taking abuse most wiseguys wouldn't stand for (particularly from Anastasia). Still, we all know how that one played out.

Boss of organized crime family is definitely a coward,oh god are you serious with these questions ?!

sorry pizza it was santa rosaria feasta

I knew it was one of them. I was right in spirit. Carlo loved his night light .

remember charlie chan? his two sons, when they would say or do something off the wall ,,he would say.. ah massing..

I actually do remember the reruns on the late late show as a kid. This was when we had channels 2,4,5,7,9 and 11. And the National Anthem came on at 4am .

yeah i'm a few older than you,, boy that was a long time ago

Christ, you guys are young, I remember test patterns.

His wife served good coffee.

Big Paul Castellano ring a bell.

Big Paul was a lot of things but im not sure I would say a coward. Greedy? Yes Not a street guy? Absolutely. However I could name a few instances where he kept his mouth shut and didn't sell anybody out. When he was 19 he robbed a store with some friends and he was the only one who got caught. Instead of ratting he said nothing and went to jail for a little bit. The other time was the apalachin meeting where he was one of the mobsters detained and didn't say anything either. IM not trying to praise Castellano but I don't consider him a coward really

He had balls the size of cows.

joe valachi- says in his book, "the valachi papers" that the assassination of albert Anastasia was planned by vito Genovese, he says carlo Gambino would never have gone along with it without the backing of vito Genovese.

Even Paul Castellano in his younger years prior being named boss, perhaps even during his time as a capo, dealt in blue-collar crime. Meaning during a portion of his life, Paul Castellano was in the streets.

Like PB always says, these are the threads that will eventually be the downfall of this site. What is the point of this thread? You don't get to the top spot in a crime family AND the commission by being a coward. You don't build the Gambino's into one of the strongest crime families with a coward at the helm.

But like I also say, If you feed it, it grows. You'll notice that this is my first serious post in this thread. And it's only because a friend mentioned my name .

Casetellano was a tough guy. He was born in New York in the early 20th century, he obviously got in scraps and there's record of him doing prison time. He was also tough enough to hang around other mobsters which proves something. Just because he had a wannabe businessman persona about him doesn't mean he isn't tough. All bosses of families try that act also so he wasn't the only one.

I think you may have that a bit backwards...Castellano was no tough guy, not adverse to violence, but not a "tough guy" himself...but Carlo Gambino certainly was...and btw, this is a dopey thread that needs to die...its whole premise is counterintuitive.

People on these forums talk about being though, but 95% have no idea what tough means. My first advice is always to stay away from the criminal path, but don't call people a coward when you have no idea what it takes or what you are talking about.

Tough doesn't necessarily mean crime. You get straight-laced workers who never been inside but yet don't back down from a fight... then you get white-collar criminals who's toughest times in life were being hazed at Dartmouth

Some of the posts on this board baffle me

For someone on the internet to type Carlo Gambino for christ sakes...and coward in the same sentence...

what the hell are you even talking about, kid?

And I'm gonna break my own rule and feed it anyway. But how the fuck is this thread still going?

Sorry, maybe it was my fault for bringing it to the top but I havent been on this board in a little while and just saw it

Haha I knew you would cave in

It's the car wreck paradox, Dix. You just can't look away .

Don't look at the light!

I can't help it!

I know some people in the United States love to hear how big their criminals are on the net etc etc but people from other places in the world do not rate mob people in the same way.

Joey Pyle a London Face said in his book he was dealing with Genovese and Gambino crime families in New York over the years, he said he once went to an other part of the United States and that people was talking about been pick up by the feds and how you had to give the feds something to keep them happy, he said mob people in the United States was weak.

Frank Tieri was the Boss and Pyle had meeting with him on deals with music industry, it had been said by others but not Pyle in his book they was dealing in the cannabis trade.

Carlo has been called a coward in books in the passed so get over it opinion post that's it.

I think the mob in the United States are not what you guys make them out to be on here everyday of the week mob guys are as Joey Pyle says weak.

I know some people in the United States love to hear how big their criminals are on the net etc etc but people from other places in the world do not rate mob people in the same way.

Joey Pyle a London Face said in his book he was dealing with Genovese and Gambino crime families in New York over the years, he said he once went to an other part of the United States and that people was talking about been pick up by the feds and how you had to give the feds something to keep them happy, he said mob people in the United States was weak.

Frank Tieri was the Boss and Pyle had meeting with him on deals with music industry, it had been said by others but not Pyle in his book they was dealing in the cannabis trade.

Carlo has been called a coward in books in the passed so get over it opinion post that's it.

I think the mob in the United States are not what you guys make them out to be on here everyday of the week mob guys are as Joey Pyle says weak.

Maybe it has something to do with the stupid and effortless way you phrased your question when making the thread? If you had actually elaborated and specified your question as in "Was Carlo considered a coward out in the streets before he became boss?" or something like that, maybe you would have gotten more serious replies.

As for Joey Pyle, I don't know about him.. he thinks they're weak? Weak how? As in brutality? They're about making money first, not scaring the shit out of people and getting unnecessary notoriety/heat from the feds. If you want more brutality then read more on the cartels, the Russians etc. I'm sure your Joey Pyle is a sissy compared to them.

Great post, Malandrino. Especially because you're a fellow European to this guy.

coward is a bad term, not to be used with CN guys, if a guy gets reprimanded by his captain or a captain by his boss and does not kill him and other people involved are they a coward ?or if a relative or best friend of yours is killed with an o.k. from the bosses and you do nothing are you a coward..?

he was shrewd, not a coward.

I wonder what happened to all the money he amassed. surely he was one of the richest bosses.

I guess it all went to his family, but, this belongs on another thread. sorry....

Joey Pyle a London Face said in his book he was dealing with Genovese and Gambino crime families in New York over the years, he said he once went to an other part of the United States and that people was talking about been pick up by the feds and how you had to give the feds something to keep them happy, he said mob people in the United States was weak.

So if you want to go back to what i said in my post, when mob guys got picked up by the FEDS they was weak and gave info to keep them happy.

Now Joey was good mates with Wilf Pine, Pine was mate with captain Joey Pagano in New York, Pagano ask Pine did he know anyone in England to work with and he took Joey Pyle over to the United States.

Now what they got up to for real ? they never said in there books as you know they would have been arrested in the United States, Wilf Pine was black sabbath manager Frank Tieri wanted into the music industry and was giving Pine money to do so 1970's and 80's we are talking about here.


Joe Pyle Tribute Night - with True Crime Legends - Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnrss_V5bG8

Mafia man Wilf Pine’s cash surprise.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mafia-man-wilf-pines-cash-1460841

On point.

It's a ridiculous thread, but just as a reminder of how "lightly" the Genovese guys took Carlo, the good old: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=94973&relPageId=1

Carlo Gambino after hearing the question.

https://youtu.be/r2BJiD529-o?t=17s

Great document. Eboli seems to suggest Catena was in over his head. Seems to go against everything we've ever heard about Catena. Was he seen as an ineffective boss? Also fascinating how they interacted with Chicago (Mooney) and New Orleans (Marcello).

great documents, makes for good reading. puzzling question is why didn't bonanno ever come in when he was ordered to, seems like the people talking here about it think he was never told.

No.

That should have been the first and last answer to the question, and then the thread should have been locked.

Carlo wanted the club we do not know the facts he may have just been right on the matter of the club.

Bonanno was not killed for not going to meeting if he knew about it or not, getting a person to walk by to put the shit's up Genovese guys took a lot of balls ? i do not think so.

The Genovese guy doing all the talking was killed after this maybe he was talking to much.

Anyway Tommy Lucchese daughter Frances was with Carlo Gambino's oldest son and were married so they was as thick as thieves.

Let me put it like this. If Big Paul were a coward, he would probably be around today. It's the very fact that he wasn't scared, that did him in.

Now Gotti? That was a scary dude in some respects. He would've never went down like Castellano because he would've been scared to death and would've taken any and all preventive measures to avert a Sparks Steakhouse type event.

I guess I liked the view of the car wreck ...sooo here it goes...the idea that mob guys, in general, are weak or cowardly is just absolutely ridiculous...they are many things....pathological liars, manipulative narcissists, sociopaths, etc...but as a rule, I wouldn't call one of them a coward without a lot of distance between them and myself. I have been around some that can absolutely make your blood run cold in a matter of seconds...they would as soon kill you as say hello to you while others are better at hiding that behavior. I have seen "rule breakers" beaten to a pulp by their "friends" then scooped up and taken to the hospital, and then visited by the same guys that just beat the hell out of them the next day. These aren't boy scouts and aren't the romanticized version you see on TV.

Ain't that the truth. This post you have here should be part of the terms of signing up for a site like the bb. After a user creates his/her user name and password your post should be underneath it having the user select yes I agree and understand this post. I mean seriously how many ppl on here actually know a guy in the life or even a street guy. Very few.

You're that Macedonian homer from the RD forum aren't you?

No. i only post on this site and most of the time on Irish stuff.

Don Carlo was a Mastermind.
He never served a jail sentence (though perhaps in todays world/legal system he might)
He was THE boss.
He didn't need to be a brave "warrior" - he had an army of minions to do his bidding.

Mastermind? A bit much, no? Carlo and the rest of the old time bosses did not have to contend with RICO. If they had, they would have all been in jail. He had that luxury and lived a quiet life. He's no smarter than Russell Bufalino, Joe Zerilli, Tony Accardo, John Scalish, John LaRocca, Jimmy Lanza, Joe Todaro, Angelo Bruno or Stefano Maggadino. He was just more well known because there was more written on NY families.

Thank you, Oscar.

Were the old timers "cut from a different cloth"? ABSOLUTELY!

But if they had to contend with modern technology, the Witness Protection Program, CSI teams, and the RICO act, someone high up the ladder would have flipped. It's silly to guess who would have been the most likely to do so, but SOMEONE would have. No doubt in my mind.

I'm not taking anything away from Don Carlo's reign but he also was in bed with Tommy Lucchese and worked with that family and their administration very closely. If I'm not mistaken, didn't Gambino's son marry Lucchese's daughter?

Comparing the eras of the American Mafia is impossible to do, it's like trying to determine if Tom Brady is better than Joe Montana. It can't be done because the rules were different, technology was obsolete and the government's closest friend RICO wasn't written until the 1970's and not used until the early 1980's (Jack Licavoli, Angelo Lonardo, Maishe Rockman Cleveland are credited with being the first convicted by the statute) and then the infamous Commission Case.

While Gambino was certainly a power to contend with, I still find it appalling that he married his first cousin. Sicilians were known for that practice and it borders incest to say the least. IMHO, I believe Funzi Tieri was more powerful than Carlo any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I believe that I had previously posted that while at camp one Sunday morning I went to the store and returned with the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Charlie Murgie read the head line regarding the RICO Act. He put the paper down and told everyone at the table: "Well boys we all better get a job!"

Charlie always had vision while the everyone else wore bifocals ;-)

A very wise man indeed

And Funzi didn't make a bowel movement without diccussing it with Benny Squint first.

FYI: I have to say, you and "Friend of Henry" have it on the ball .

I think he served some time, which in all amounted to about 20 months only (have read it in the New York Times article about Gambino's death I think).
They all have been in jail at least for a short time on a certain points in their careers, even Lucchese served time for auto theft. Tony Accardo is the only exception I think.

I don't have first hand knowledge about NYC, but I've read a ton about NYC through the 90's and kinda stopped keeping up with it after that. However, besides yourself, I have some close friends in Brooklyn and some cousins scattered between Fairfield County and Brooklyn...so some of my info comes from them. IMO, Funzi may have been the top boss in history in terms of wielding influence. Plus, he was connected to "many" of the top bosses from my neck of the woods, especially to Big John LaRocca. Profaci was another one, I had a great uncle who was exceptionally close to Profaci, traveled with him to Italy to help him find wholesale Olive Oil vineyards/suppliers.

He was convicted on a tax evasion rap and spent five years in prison because he lost $100k in a Puerto Rican casino--at a time when he was claiming "legitimate" income of $10k/year. That's not very smart.

I'm not trying to offend any Sicilians here, but that is incest I couldn't imagine marrying my 1st cousins or even messing with them. We are very close yes, but nothing like that. Of course I understand it all, but here in the South we hear the incest line all the time and even that is considered a no no here.

As most here are probably aware (at least the guys with a little gray on their head), it was common practice for our relatives from the "old country" to marry cousins (many were arranged marriages), before they came over...in fact, that was a common practice throughout the entire Mediterranean region.

That's true, and actually the risk of something being wrong with the baby of first cousins is relatively small. It's the same risk as when a 40 year old woman gives birth to a child. It's difficult to imagine it because of cultural things, but it's very common in certain cultures even today.

I understand...my entire family comes from the San Nicola Ardore region of Reggio Calabria...and not one of them married anybody they were related to and there were many arranged marriages in the older generation of my family. It wasn't an "old country" practice, it was a practice prevalent by Sicilians. I'm not saying it didn't happen in other regions, I'm saying it's sick.

If my memory serves me correct, Gambino married his first cousin who was the sister of Big Paul Castellano...which makes Gambino and Castellano first cousins as well as brother in laws.

I'm sorry Oscar (aka JCB, Bugsyvegas)...it was quite a common practice in all of the Mediterranean countries.

No need to apologize to me. Wow, you got me, I am JCB...Holy shit are you good. Point of the matter is that it is known as "incest" and is a disgusting practice no matter if it's Russia or the Mediterranean. It's demented, it isn't right and it's sick.

And the people who actually arranged for their kids to marry their brother's or sister's kids are despicable.

What does any of that have to do with Carlo Gambino's underworld stature, though?

And I don't think Gambino ever served a jail sentence, much like Tony Accardo.

I agree Oscar that is completely disgusting.

Amen to that, this is my first post, but yeah, people outside the life have no real understanding of what Gangster means, hell a lot of people In the life dont get it either...

I hate to go off topic, but am I the only one a little fascinated by this document?

The Mary Ferrell document i mean...

It may be disgusting to us, but it did go on quite a bit...and arranged marriages still exist in the more rural portions of countries throughout the Mediterranean even today.

To me it was very fascinating, and you can see how Carlo was always maneuvering. I especially enjoyed the part where Tommy Ryan gets paranoid about the guy on the street being possibly a hitman sent by Carlo.

For me there's a lot of things that stand out;
1. Carlo wants the Copa; Now Jerry Catena seems to be like, " We care about this?" "Why?". But Eboli sees it as a test, as do I. It seems Carlo was testing to see how easily he would acquiesce to a demand, to see if he would challenge the new order on the commission.
2. I always heard the story of how they sent for Bonnano to appear before the commission, but I never knew Carlo and Luchesse manipulated it so the Commision knew he was summoned, but they made sure that Bonnano wouldn't get the message, talk about cunning lol!

Minimal jail time at best for Accardo with a career that lasted longer than Carlo's. Carlo had a good reign, no doubt, but to say it was the best in mob history is certainly debatable at least.

I would ask you a question on this one PB. Nothing much is know about Phil Lombardo and you are from his heartland of the Bronx/East Harlem. The FBI and cops knew very little about this guy, but did you or any of your family know how powerful this guy was back in the day?

Because, let's face it, this guy made Michael Corleone look like a rookie. Basically ran the Genovese's from 1969 until his death in 1987 without anyone in law enforcement having a clue.

cowards? heaven no i mean come on he made these moves that nobody else had the balls to took out a feared man(alber anastasia)

Last night I had a dream that Carlo Gambino and Joe Ligambi had a cockfight using their noses.

Little Joey preparing for the fight with Little Carlo.

LOl, whose on deck, Paul Castellano?

(Moe n Bean)

Yes, it wasn't much of a secret in East Harlem. Now, I'm not saying that "civilians" knew he was a shadow boss. But everyone knew that he was a very serious guy and very heavy in the street.

i dont' think gambino was a coward he was one of the most powerful in the states
anyway what do you want to proof? irish gangs are by far weaker than italian mafia in europe or the states

PB,
it states on Wiki for what its worth that Lombardo was Catena's protege when Genovese passed.

Why was Lobardo appointed over Catena as boss?

Catena's choice?

But the American Cosa Nostra isn't an international power anymore, is it? While some Irish like Christy Kinahan have got solid alliances in many countries, are you sure the Irish mob is definitely weaker than the Italian-American one today?

i mean that irish gangs in europe are weaker than italian mafia and irish gangs in the states are weaker than lcn

Possibly, along with the possibility that he was anointed by committee.

Of course, there are those who still believe that Funzi was the boss, and I respect their right to that opinion. But 116th Street was SO strong at that time, that it almost had to be a guy from the old Coppola crew.

Of course, Benny loved Vince so much that he handpicked him as his successor, even though Vince was a Downtown guy. But even then, the heaviest crew within that Family was 116th Street. That's why they indicted Salerno instead of Gigante for the Commission trial.

The Feds knew that the 116th Street Crew was the strongest in the Family by far. And with Salerno holding court out in the open every day, how could they not think he was the boss?

It was a brilliant strategy all the way around. Unless you were Tony Salerno. But Hell, he was only inside for about six years before he died, and he left behind an amount of money that looked like a long distance phone number. So I don't feel too bad for him.

Interesting PB. Cheers.

Genovese was Capo of the Greenich village crew like Chin, not 116th.
So interesting dynamic. You had Genovese and Chin from Greenwich and Catena and Lombardo 116th.

So those two crews headed the family yet alternated leadership. Greenich (Genovese)-116 (Benny) -Greenich (Chin) -116 (Barney)

Interesting how intermingled those crews were with Lombardo favouring Chin and Chin favouring Barney.

Pretty sure Catena came up, and was later Capo, in Willie Moretti's Jersey crew rather than the Bronx/Harlem guys.

That rings a bell too.

True. Gerry Catena was originally a Jersey guy.

As an aside, when he retired to Florida in the early '70s, he REALLY retired. Nothing clandestine about it. Played golf into his fucking 90's. Class guy.

Actually, Sonny, the Downtown crew and the Greenwich Village crew were different entities. The Downtown crew being centered around the old Little Italy, which was just Southeast of the West Village. The Downtown crew would go on to be run by the likes of Matty the Horse and Jimmy Ida.

As you can imagine, the two crews being in such close proximity of one another was quite confusing, which gave the Government fits. But that's the Westside for you .

+1

Thank you, Ivy. It's nice when the historian and the word of mouth guy synch up like that. It's rare, but it's still nice .

Was Bobby Manna apart of the Village crew at one point ? I know he's a Jersey guy but he had an apt on I want to say Houston street for years.

Yes.

The capos of those two crews read like a friggin all star team.