I read 5 families for the 2nd time.

It amazes me how much of a failure Gotti was. He was a degenerate gambler, greedy, no common sense, drew too much attention to himself. The worst boss of all time. He didn't seem like someone who was qualified to be a skipper, much less a boss.

He was a broke until he became a boss. They said in the book he made a comment on how he was in disbelief about these construction extortion kickbacks he was getting, and how he had never had money like that before. How he ever got into that position blows me away.

Chin made him look like an amature, the way they ran their shows was like night and day.

Its interesting that another bad Boss was Amuso and Casso(i consider them both the boss of their family). Probably the 2nd worst boss run behind Gotti. Whats worse as they were both running their respective families at the same time.

These 3 guys, and the damage they did to their families, was much worse than even the original commision case for the mob. They set their families back years.

To me, the most qualified person to run a crime family would be someone that is not really violent, but respected. Someone who specializes in white collar crimes. If someone makes a living money from violence, robbery, or drug dealing, they don't seem like someone who would be sophisticated enough to run a crime family.

Just some observations from the book.

I think the same things,walkner about gotti and casso and amuso;
These 3 sociopths was lucky: Gotti was the protege of Dellacroce and Amuso of chickie Funari.
After the Commission Trial all the old and respected bosses went to jail,so rise the yong and violent new bosses.
Fortunatly for the gambinos and the luccheses,Cefalù was a old school mobster and Crea was well respected and low key.

For me the worst boss ever was Nicky Scarfo in the 1981 the philly family was little but efficent,has about 8 capos ruled on philly and atlantic city,after scarfo in 1989,two capos and the underboss flips and until Ligambi in the 2001 there was 30 years of war.

I thought Casso was Furnari's protege and Amuso was Carmine Tramunti's protege.

my opinion exactly, and the worst thing the idiot ever did was to make his son the boss of the gambinos, the gottis were morons,

You know what I been thinking when amuso takes over as boss for tony ducks he only ups casso to capo of there old 19th hole crew and Neil mig. Becomes his consig and some old guy Mac from the Bronx under. If Neil mig never gets indicted with fat tony the dinapolis in the second concrete club case would have been a lot different. Wonder if casso order the hit on Neil mig in 93 without amuso OK probaly also might have been the reason amuso striped him wants he was caught and jailed. Cause from what I read Neil was loyal to the family probaly to this day in retirement.

Everything you said is true. Even Gotti's most daring move--the assassination of Castellano and Bilotti, using shooters wearing identical hats and coats, and using identical weapons, to avoid positive identification--was planned and orchestrated by Frankie DiCicco.

Calling daily meetings to draw attention/boost his ego. And then when one of the soldiers takes a righteous stand and decides not to show one time he has them killed. That's how Thomas DeBrizzi got it. What a sick game.

Carmine Fatico was the best boss of the Bergin Crew. From the Mangano days on Fatico's crew brought in 30 million a year (supposedly) and not a peep of attention until the 70's. Big difference. Gotti wasn't a "bad" boss in the sense he didn't run the family's finances in to the ground and let the rackets dry up for an entire decade (looking at you Frank DeSimone) but in my opinion he's a great example of the "the Peter Principle", best exemplied by Michael Scott in the Office. In other words, promoted way past his potential success level.

Gotti was not one of the worst bosses because like I said he was smart enough not to try to fixed a business model that already brought in a lot of cash. But he wanted to be a king and not a godfather.

I was born in 1985, so I have no clue of how well known the details of the comission case. The book stated that Gotti was taped in the aparment above a social club and in an Ally behind the same club.

My question is, how well known was it that the Feds bugged cars, and intimate places of the bosses that were tried in that case. I know they mentioned that the car bugging was released in the paper. But what about the bugging of like Castellano's house, the resturant table the Colombos frequented, and the bugging of Fat Tony's club?

Was that stuff all covered at the time, in the papers and stuff? Seems like it makes him even worse if he couldn't adapt to the times, and talk business in random locations. Instead he had everyone come to him at the same place, and he talked his business in the same places(ally, apartment)of that same place.

You would think, if the guy had an ounce of common sense he would of switched it up and went to a mall, or a crowded place where he could walk and talk and he would only really have to worry if one of his goons was wearing a wire.

It seems the bosses now days have adapted to the times.

Mob people were well aware that the Feds would bug them at every opportunity. But, carelessness tripped them up. Gotti assumed that the Bergin and the Ravenite were bugged, which was why he did "walk/talks" and why he made the arrangement to use the upstairs apartment from the Ravenite for business. Never seemed to occur to him that if The Law could bug the Bergin and the Ravenite, they could also bug the apartment. Tony Ducks figured he was safe to talk in a car. Why didn't he think The Law could bug a car? Angelo Ruggiero had every reason to think his phones were bugged, but he yapped anyway--that's why the called him Quack-Quack.

The bugging of Tony Corallo's car was a case of sheer luck, in my opinion. The car was constantly guarded and was in safe places the majority of times. However, when the F.B.I decided to try to bug the car, they had to figure out how to disassemble the dashboard, put the bug in, and put everything back the correct way (and do it in record time, because had the mob guys caught anyone tampering with the car, they would have likely have been killed). On the night the F.B.I did all that, there was a huge storm and the guys watching Tony's car (he was in a meeting) went inside to stay dry. Not only did the F.B.I have to bug the car correctly, they had to cover everything with plastic in order to prevent water from leaking in, because Carallo would have knew something was up.

As for the apartment Gotti used to conduct meetings, he probably assumed that the F.B.I would never bug a civilian's home. Well, we all know that ain't the case.

Well I can give him a pass there because with the situation he thought he was truly ok as nobody seemed to know where he went when he left the Ravenite and would disappear. I think it was sheer luck they noticed the old lady leaving at a certain time, etc. and they hit the jackpot.

I've read 5 families many times. Best mafia book ever.

From everything I've read about John Gotti, I agree he was one of the worst mob bosses ever.

Great book. When you go through the notes and credits you'll see that most of it is adapted from over thirty years of Raab's newspaper stories. Tremendous note taker and memory. A great journalist. Along with Pete Hamill (and maybe Breslin, who still writes, but he's kinda senile and as bitter as ever), Raab's the last of a dying breed.

raab could be the best ever, and Hamill is great, when he writes about new York [ " a drinking life"] he puts you right there with him.

breslin I don't think will is of the same caliber as the other two..... just my opinion/

Has anyone read the 1983 book "The Mob" by Virgil Peterson? A very big book, also focused on the New York organized crime, very detailed, especially about Tammany Hall and political corruption, also in pre-mafia times, like the "Tweed ring" in the 1850s; also talks about less known big players in the underworld like Frank Erickson, Harry Gross, Henry Miro, Wilfred Brunder, and has an entire chapter on the waterfront hearings and investigations; most books only mention briefly "Cockeye" Dunn and Joe Ryan without examining the subject in details.

I mean, it's another great work about the New York organized crime, like Raab's "Five Families".

However, the author of "The Mob" tries to make a point which I am not sure is correct: he says the Cosa Nostra influence on national organized crime is overestimated, it allegedly never was the absolute dominant force, and also says Valachi's testimony is reliable only when pertaining to New York matters.

haven't read the book. sounds like a real detailed history if he goes back to tammany hall. of which the politics could be considered as corrupt as any in the entire world from top to bottom.

as far as the writers observation that the cosa nostra influence on organized crime is overestimated, im not sure that is true, I think I will look for the book. thank you.

Valachi's knowledge was mostly limited to NY. When asked about other families such as the Outfit, Detroit, Philly, Florida, etc. he either embellished or told his handlers he didn't know. In fact, it's now become known that his knowledge for the most part was only limited to the Luciano/Genovese family. And he only had general knowledge of the other families, like who the bosses were. He didn't know what the other families were involved in, or who had got moved up and who didn't and who were the Capo's and soldiers, etc. The feds actually fed him information during their debriefings of him to make him more credible.

Not only is that book about, "The 5 Families" but, it darn near weighs 5 pounds also.....Very informative!

Great point, Sinatra.

I say his often about some of the bullshitters we get on these sites and their "inside information." The easiest way for these clowns to give themselves away is to start claiming that they know what's going on from New York to Chicago to Detroit to Las Vegas to California. Because for 99 percent of street guys, their knowledge is confined to their own domains and neighborhoods.

And with the assimilation of Italian Americans, and the dwindling of Italian neighborhoods, it's even truer today than it was back then. Go ask a captain in one of the Five Families if he knows what's going on in Cleveland or Detroit (assuming that you knew one and could ask him that type of question). He'll look at you like you have two heads.

Perhaps the understatement of the year.

i think you guys kind of overrate his book on this board. raab's writing style seemed pretty dry to me,and he uses a lot of unnecessary big words that no one ever uses in real life,outside of academia maybe. it's also maybe too ambitious. if i want to read a sweeping account of mob history that covers hundreds of years,i prefer something in encyclopedic form like jay Robert nash's books. it just doesn't work as well in the format of a chronology. just one man's opinion,of course. carry on

He should have known better. If he knew or suspected that the Ravenite was bugged, he should have been wary of talking in that apartment, which was right upstairs--especially since it was rented to the widow of a Gambino soldier whose name logically would be known to the cops.

Worse, he really didn't conduct much business there (he did on his walk/talks). The transcripts of the bugs show he used the place to brag and swagger ("I'll sever his MF head..." "I killed him because he didn't come in when I called...")

And it wasn't just any civilian's apartment. The old lady's husband was a Gambino associate and the caretaker at the Ravenite since forever. He was only dead for a little over a year or two when they planted the bug.

This is a guy (Mikey Cirelli) who chased detectives out of the club with a baseball bat years earlier when he caught them bugging the place. I'm sure that little bit of irony played no small part in the Feds decision to bug that apartment.

The Feds have nothing but money and time. And they never forget anything. Bugging that particular apartment was a double victory for them. They're very spiteful like that.

Great book seen a interview hes writing a sequel. The book on Massimo by destefano is great for a modern day book.

Really? Two things I want to see, him go deeper into the 1970's. I find that decade interesting. Particularly the late 70's after Gambino died. It seemed like a chaotic time, with the books opening, and all the guys that were made that become historic infamous guys, the amount of guys getting clipped(Paul Castellano in particular seemed ruthless). It also seemed like a high point too. The feds and police still hadn't gotten their shit together it seemed, and the mob was incredibly powerful.

Also, I would like to read more about whats going on now. I found it interesting in 5 families, when he touched on some of the scams they are using now. Like phone cards, and health insurance fraud. It's just interesting the elaborate schemes these guys come up with to get money. I am not sure how much info he can give, seems like they have moved way under ground. But it would be nice to read about.

what surprised me the most about 5 families is when raab went into the gas scams that some families were into.

I was amazed at how much money they were making on these gas ripoffs, in the tens of millions.

If the wiseguys can steal that much in a gasoline racket, how much do you think the Government makes?

Why else would we give two shits what goes on in the Middle East?

Call me crazy.

sounds right. not crazy.

That's true Sinatra. I believe they got some information from Scarpa at that time and credit went to valachi with all the charts and everything they had at the hearings

By the way 5 families was one of my favorites. Very good informative book. 2 thumbs up.

Saying the government is the 'real mafia' is a cliche at this point, but when u follow the money and consider our involvement in the middle east, it kinda nails that phrase perfectly

Valachi's book, and Valachi himself, gets a lot of criticism, but I like it.

There are a lot of problems with the Valachi book: he actually doesn't know that much, a lot of speculation, also (and most importantly) who was the "Buster from Chicago" character? Was it Valachi himself?

For a lot of people of a certain age, Valachi was the first book they read about the mob. That's too bad because it started them off with a bunch of shaky facts. I was lucky enough to read some great books like Five Families, Wiseguy and Donnie Brasco BEFORE Valachi.

The good thing about that is I already had a bunch of knowledge that allowed me to fish through the shaky facts and enjoy the story. There's so much there. People always say he was a "nobody," just a soldier, etc... But in the story, (true or not) he interacts with so many huge and famous mobsters from those early times. I especially like the first 10 pages or so when he talks about his childhood. A lot like "Angela's Ashes."

The Vinny Teresa book is similar in that way. /end of rant.

I know in my first post feeding a potential troll isn't the best of starts, but to suggest that Raab uses words that are too big is kind of ridiculous. My vocabulary isn't that expansive but at no point did I feel the need to refer to a dictionary or thesaurus

ok,i just turned to a random page in the book to see if I was correct and I saw words like
"omnibus"
"spurious"
"hob-knobbing"
sorry,but these aren't regular words people use everyday. not to pass judgment on the author,I kind of get the feeling he's not the most down to earth or street guy ever. working at the ny times for 40 years will do that.

Hob-knobbing sounds like something that would get a guy killed.