Repercussions of killing a made guy...

I read about a Lucchese soldier who was killed by Frank Lucas's organization back in the 70s, and no consequences of the act were ever reported.

Have their ever been any other known murders of made guys by other OC groups?

I remember Roy murdered a made guy from another family before he was even made and Nino just pretty much told him to "make it look like something else" and they made it look like a robbery gone bad.

The Frank Lucas thing seems like a myth to me. I'd challenge anyone to actually come up with a name of this Lucchese soldier they killed.

Lol, I agree I doubt it's true... imagine if he'd killed a soldier in Vario's crew. Lucas would be found dead the next day.

Wasn't it Nicky Barnes' organization who killed Carmine Pugliese (or was it Carmen Pugliese)?

Carmine Pugliese and 5 other murders:
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/11/nyregi...-informant.html

Carmine Pugliese was 26 at the time of his death (July 1976) which (according to logic) seems to suggest he was too young to have been made. Newspapers at the time talked about his brothers being involved with the Lucchese Family, but I have never seen anything that points at any of them actually being made. Besides, Carmine Pugliese was considered to be an informant. If anything, Barnes did the Luccheses a favor (and it was probably sanctioned).

I remember there was also some discussion about Jeff Fort in Chicago having whacked 2 Outfit associates (though not made members). Probably weren't considered important since there were no retaliations. Don't remember the names though.
But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.

Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.

Who are some of the younger guys from this generation that were made young and what family are they in ??

I think I read somewhere that Barney from west side was made young ...

I think there was also a case in the 50s in Chicago were a made member was killed by a an African-American gangster. Retaliations followed ofcourse. Tough im not sure how or what the background was for the killings.

Maybe you are referring to the case when in 1951 Teddy Roe killed Marshall Caifano's brother. But it was self-defense, they were trying to kidnap him.

I recall reading somewhere that Alphonse Trucchio was made at a young age. Do you know if he was in his late 20's or early 30's Hairy?

jimmy burke killed billy batts, and buried his body. tommy desimone got whacked for it. not burke.

burke and his crew probably killed more made guys, and got away with it. I guess big earners can whack made guys.

Alphonse Trucchio was very young when he was made. He was probably made in 2001, so he was around 25, 26. There are other examples of guys getting made very young. Barney, Cesare Bonventre, Baldo Amato, Little Allie Boy Persico and a few others. Most of the guys, actually a huge majority of all inducted since the 1970s, were in their late 30s, 40s, 50s and in some cases in their 60s.

Billy Batts was not made. Hill/Pileggi added him being made in the book simply for dramatic effect. Or they were dead wrong about Batts. They couldn´t even get his name right.

How does it work about guys who get made in their 60s? I mean, don't they get tired of waiting after a certain amount of time?

@dwalin yeah thats the one.

@cleanbandit: i dunno how it was after the 70s but the books were closed for 20years when they started making guys in the late 70s.

This barnes testimony from the presidents commission on organised crime from back in 85. this is the brief mention of the pugliese murder. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/105010NCJRS.pdf

that says it all.

thank you Scorsese.

I don't think Frank lucas ever had the same influence barnes, frank matthews or even the philly black mafia had. He was actually ripped off during the early 70s by some italian drug dealers and didn't do anything about it. Frank Matthews got ripped off by the same people but he kidnapped one of them and got his money back.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/529/149/386914/


Ive posted this up before , i was wondering if anyone knew anything about these italian drug dealers?

Always wonder the way john pappa killed a respected lcn guy like scopo from a powerful family is treated by other lcn guys in jail. He killed him in front his house in gottis home turf.

What I find interesting in Murder Machine is the part of how Nino genuinely wanted to convince Roy that being an unmade associate was much better for him. Unlike a button, an associate has a much higher tolerance for mistakes and can move more freely, etc. Roy wanted his button so bad, but neither Paul or Nino were okay with that.

Maybe in a way things would have turned out a little different had Roy not been made?

The murder of Foxy Jerothe was the one that got Tommy clipped.

You can kill a made guy without permission if you use outside people to do it then kill them so they can't trace it back to you.

Barney Bellomo is a made man son and cousin of an associate can speak both Italian and English. He spent a year studying mortuary science (very useful in the case to remove the on corpses)so he has the pedigree to be made yonger.

Same thing for Phil Leonetti made at 27 and Salvie Testa made at 24;both was initiated in Cosa Nostra by a relative,the uncle nicky for leonetti and his father for salvie.

Junior Gotti and little allie boy was made only because their fathers was the bosses.

now is more diffcult that has made young, especially after the case donnie brasco that was re-introduced the rule that you have to be full-blooded italian and that you gonna be an associate for 10 years before being proposed to be made.

Furio, from where did you get the info that you have to be an associate for 10 years?

^ This.

If a guy is getting made in his early 30's, to saying nothing of his 20's, he's obviously very well connected (likely a blood family member making it happen) and has an inside track to getting his button.

now is more diffcult that has made young, especially after the case donnie brasco that was re-introduced the rule that you have to be full-blooded italian and that you gonna be an associate for 10 years before being proposed to be made. [/quote]

There have been guys made after Brasco who are not 100% Italian,. Campos, Gotti Jr., Craig DePalma and a few others. Sorry but I never heard of the 10 year rule. Where did you hear this? Falcone was proposed in 2 1/2 by DePalma.

I read in Pistone book and Gotti relative was both italian this is the means of full blooded italian;gotti was 1/4 or !/8 jew but his mother and his father was italian.

Furio, what about John Veasey, Frank Salemme, Craig DePalma and Andrew Campos?

For John Veasey,Stanfa needed a tought killer for fight against the young turks for the others I have nothing to say;in the mob more rules are made to be broken and sometime the boss decide case by case,but if I don't mistake Ray Patriarca don't made Salemme and another man cause aren't full blooded.

Regarding Billy Batts, is there evidence he ever existed? I know theres a name (William Bentvena)and he is supposed to have a record, but theres not a photo of him anywhere.

Maranzano, Billy Batts, Jilly Greca - frustrating with all those guys who never seemed to have their picture taken.

Yes there is. According to a FBI report, a confidential informant informed the FBI that a William Bentvena AKA Billy Batts, a known drug trafficker who had served time in Lewisburg, was rumored to have been murdered. According to this CI, the rumor on the street was that his murder was over a drug deal.

This is Bentvena´s SSDI:

Name: William Bentvena
State of Issue: New York
Date of Birth: Wednesday February 22, 1933
Date of Death: December 1970
Est. Age at Death: 37 years, 9 months

HairyKnuckles did Billy Batts buy his button like the movie says?

I doubt very much he was made at all, Beansy.

If Roy Demeo was whacked, because he was under investigation, and that investigation was focused on his car theft enterprise, then he might have lasted longer had he not been trying to become a made man by proving he could earn through trafficking in autos.

HK, I guess they took a lot of liberties in the book, and the movie "goodguys" about billie batts then.

Most mob books do. Unless it´s a dry one.

Yeah but how much longer? Till 85-86 even? Then he would have been part of the hit on Castellano since according to different sources Roy was also unhappy with Paul. Imagine him and the Gotti crew joining forces? Roy would have wanted underboss or consigliere to say the least if he'd take out Paul.

I always wondered if Tommy D was whacked not for Batts but for the kid that bar tended at the card games. That story was true and apparently the kids father was someone who could get the right ear for a request of retribution .

In the movie, the guy's name was spider, play by Michael Imperioli but I do not know what his real name was or who his father or Uncle was. Interesting though.

"Spider"'s sister and Henry Hill had quite an interesting tete-a-tete on Howard Stern once.

Matthew Madonna was made at a very old age.

Madonna was about to get his button before he got 30 years in 1975, he got made when he got out of prison when he was 62/63, then was elevated to capo about a year later, then was on the ruling panel 4 years later. Madonna is a VERY serious guy, he's Crea's right hand man according to Capeci.

Sal Locascio was around 28 when he was made, Vinny Corrao was made VERY young, he was 23. HK's right, it's mainly legacies that get made real young.

Im gunna look for that.

Who is the oldest guy to be made? That we know of? Is it Madonna or were there older people?

Castellano was a business man than a mobster,so just the idea of stay in a cell than in his luxury home,made born the idea of made whack DeMeo and was an mistake,Roy was a stand up guy and will made his time with the mouth shout;and the fact that was a made man than an associate is irrelevant if the boss wants someone dead, then that someone dies.
if he lived until to 85-86? most likely would become capo at the death of gaggi in 1990.




I know that the older was Madonna in 1998 that was made because made 30 years without flips,but was the custom to made old mobsters that are about to die or retire for reward for years of loyalty to the family.

Charles Stango in the DeCavalcante family was an associate as of 2008. He's 71 right now, so probably him. His crew is probably a new, small one. You have to wonder how many other crews they have.

http://patch.com/new-jersey/brick/brick-...ostitution-club

Charles Stango, a captain in the DeCavalcante family, and his son, Anthony, allegedly planned to operate a high-end escort service targeting white-collar businessmen and professionals in the Toms River area. As part of the plan, their crew would establish a legal club as a front for the prostitution business in order to avoid law enforcement scrutiny, it said. Galli was part of that plan, according to the criminal complaints.

Nigro and Colella were charged along with Charles Stango in a plot to murder a rival member who was living in New Jersey, authorities said. Charles Stango allegedly sought and received permission from Nigro, the crime family’s consigliore – or counsel – and other upper-echelon members of the crime family, to kill a rival member living in New Jersey.

Colella’s role was to speak on behalf of Charles Stango to ensure the killing would be approved by other ranking members. Charles Stango discussed his plans with an undercover agent, which included hiring two members of an outlaw biker gang to shoot the rival gang member.

And on several occasions between Dec. 12, 2014, and March 9, 2015, Stango and various conspirators were audio- or video-recorded conducting drug transactions with an undercover law enforcement officer, the release said. Anthony Stango, Galli, Capozzi and Degidio were involved with the cocaine purchases and distribution scheme, according to the complaints.

If Charles Stagno was an associate in 2009 and now a captain,he is the oldest to be made.

How the fuck can they wait for so long? Damn, lol.

Simple the Decavalcante (and others family) must ask the permission to NY for made someone.
The Decavalcante that was considerated a second division mob family (gotti in the 80s ordered to repeat a making ceremony)

Understood perfectly. All I am saying is that it seems Roy's downfall was his being investigated for being involved in the car theft ring. If he would've stuck to quieter ways of making money, he might have lasted longer, and even become a Capo as you suggested.

One thing on the difference between soldier and associate. This is just my opinion. I think a soldier can only usually be whacked if a Boss approves. A soldier and Capo can't usually take it upon themselves to kill a member of a family that Bosses induct themselves.

On the other hand, except in the case of high level associates whose earnings impact the pocketbooks of the upper echelons of the mafia, an associate can pretty much be whacked whenever the soldier gets good and ready to (especially if that associate is not on record with the family and no one knows about them except the soldier). I think all a soldier would need to do is inform their Capo, and that's only if the associate is known to the Capo.

Where did you hear that? I'm pretty sure he was indicted in as a soldier around 15 years ago.

There have been guys made after Brasco who are not 100% Italian,. Campos, Gotti Jr., Craig DePalma and a few others. Sorry but I never heard of the 10 year rule. Where did you hear this? Falcone was proposed in 2 1/2 by DePalma. [/quote]

Falcone was full of shit. Nobody ever proposed him. DePalma was just using it as bait to get more money out of the fatass.

Falcone was full of shit. Nobody ever proposed him. DePalma was just using it as bait to get more money out of the fatass. [/quote]

And you know this how? That's not what the FBI says

After the books were opened in the 1970's the guys who were made at a young age all had strong family connections. Michael Franzese through Sonny. Alphonse Trucchio through Ronny One Arm. Barney Bellomo through Salvatore. Junior Gotti through John. I doubt Carmine Pugliese was made. Nobody has ever heard of him except though Barnes. As far as him being connected, just about every Italian drug dealer back then had a relative or associates who worked with the mob or spent time in prison and got to know other mobster.