Mob Rats .

Who is the most annoying Mob rat ? I say Phillip "Crazy Phil" Leonetti because I don't think anyone is trying kill him anymore to be honest .

I have to respectfully disagree mobman.. I find leonetti honest and his book was terrific. I dont think he glorifies or exaggerates. I do think hes not too bright and was never a big earner only rose cuz of his uncle but i could be wrong .

To me the most annoyin rats are veasey and cicale bc both of them were fuckin made for like 3 yrs combined and they talk like theyre lucky luciano .. Phony bs but just my opinion

Your outta your mind if you think his uncle wouldnt have him, or his mother killed at the drop of the hat,and his uncle still has the connection to get it done.

Guys: I am not a writer, i am not a troll,dam i am not even a smart guy,(just a guy that was fortunate in my business) I am not a researcher, so what i am going to say is from a guy that grew up on a city block not 100 feet from him.
Phil is just one of those guys that no matter what happen's to him he winds up on his feet.
He does have a concern that his uncle still holds sway.The fact that he did or was going to rat on the west side is always a factor.
The things he says in his book that does "not"talk about the mob is right on.The things that he does say about the mob that i know about is right on.(now i do not have a clue what was going on in side that family)cos i was a friend and a neighbor ,not a member.
The comment about him not being a money maker is right ,he did not go out and get rackets .There is a big reason for that ,everything lands on this guys lap.(just one of those guys)The other factor is that he was a almost a 24/7 caretaker(driver bodyguard etc) to Nicky sr.not counting when sr, was away . When sr was away he handled shit pretty good.
I am still very close to all of the family and in the past summer did something for Phil through his inlaws.(This was nothing illegal it was actually mundane)but he has some how landed on his feet again and is doing very well(Before the book)and after.
And do not think for one minute that this guy is week,to this day he will drop you.
As for being one of those rats like Cicale no fuckin way.If Phil wanted he could be doing a movie(and he may once his uncle is gone) he could be running around like Franzese and company, That is not his style.
He was always a clam guy and very smooth,he hardly ever over drank(in excess) and he was often it the bars (Like all of us) it was just the way of life for 20/30 somethings back then.

Hasn't been any made guys turn rat in 4 years I think. Last probably deluca in providence 2010 or the Colombo guys 2011

For me is dominick montiglio, who is also an alcoholic, and his recurring nightmare:

In the program Mafia aired on Channel 5 in the UK in early 2006 Montiglio spoke of a recurring dream in which he left Gaggi's house and from underneath his Cadillac emerged the members of the DeMeo crew and Roy says, "Hey Dominick, come to hell with us".

lewis kasman was real bad but he was a associate if its a made member theres so many gotta think. I cant consider ron prite or veasey I don't believe they got made.little al casue he had the most apperances and you can find all types of shit he contradicts and is a hypocrite

The most annoying. I can only give a baseless opinion:

Something about seeing Anthony Casso, basically a mass murderer, giving courtroom testimony surrounded by a huge plastic canopy to block his identity annoyed me a great deal.

Lol, may I ask why? For some reason Casso always makes me chuckle. Sure, he's basically a mass murderer, but he's got a way about him that makes me laugh, his mannerisms, his accent, his face muscle movements and twitches and generally the way he justifies his crimes is kinda funny, to me at least.

I can only comment on what ive read, or seen on mafia documentaries, but, there are two people that if I had one wish I would wish that these rats would be picked up and boiled in oil.

john gotti jr, and Dominick cicale.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I don't know if we have email notifications here of replies beyond PMs, but if we did have it, it'd be great.

Why Casso. I find him sort of funny too. He seemed human at one of his most inhuman moments during the 60 min.s interview. He said he "shot the kid a coupla times, maybe more dan uh cupple". Did I laugh? Yes I did, as did many of you, including Ed Bradley himself. But that doesn't mean I admire the guy. When Ed Bradley asked him "what about the families of the people [whom Casso killed]", Casso replied coldly..."I don't know those people". That was something that just smacked you right in the face right through the TV screen. It was a little shocking. At least for me. So that sort of negated the USO Casso Comic Relief right then and there.

It's not easy to explain the self explanatory. Casso outranks many many mobsters past and present, in one characteristic...selfishness.

He's also not the brightest bulb. The feds were going to give him a sweetheart deal, and he botched it by trying to blow the whistle on other feds. I'm reading about how the feds were blowing their tops like mount Vesuvius because they expected him to tell on the mafia, and he wouldn't shut up about other feds. So if I find him a bit annoying, I don't think I am alone in that.

I read Phil's book and it was great. He mentioned he had a son born in 1974, now is the woman he's married to now this boys mother or was he married before?

Great info Serpiente

Any word on where Joey Massino may have disappeared to? IMO, the most annoying rat was Michael Franzese and all his lectures and college campus visits...I'm surprised his father didn't try to kill him. Also, Calabrese from Chicago is fucking annoying with his "half truths."

No it was not a marriage.

She is not in the life nor her family .

It was not a long relationship or an engagement because one day a little boy was added to the rest of the boys around there compound,, and it was Phil's son .

I remember a little about her but she's not in the life nor her relatives . But if I remember correctly it was just a little more than a fling .But she is not in the life to be spoke about like she was or is .

The woman he is with now was not his wife when he flipped and took off ,she lived two houses past Angeloni's on Arctic Avenue. Then moved around the corner to Georgia Avenue across from Angeloni's behind Regina's pharmacy that's where she lived when she was dating Phil ...and her name is not what he calls her in the book to keep her out of it ...

Out of all the rats Casso is the one I despise the most, but Dominick Cicale is the most annoying rat for me, talks himself up like he is the best shit EVER.

If you think he's an asshole on Youtube, you should have known him in real life. But I guess, living in New Zealand, that would have been highly unlikely .

You guys have most covered, but I'd add Billy Cutolo. A world class asshole.

He may not have been a 'traditional' rat, but he could never do anything right anyway.

When I watched Cicale on YouTube I believed every word he said and thought to myself - "this guy is fucking amazing".

But yeah I read a few of your posts about Cicale and realised, adleast to some extent, he was bullshitting a bit.

Really? Him? He's like a lost little puppy dog. Why did they have to clip his father? Wasn't he a good earner and respected??

Yeah....cut that puppy some slack.

His father got clipped and Billy is not too fucking happy about it.

Of course, a rat is a rat I can't argue with that. His name just isn't the first to pop up in my mind when I think of a rat. That's all.

^^Yes that's what I meant by not a 'traditional rat'



His father was a completely different type of guy than his son. A gangsters gangster, as the saying goes.

The son was an asshole even before his dad was killed, and there's no cure for that type of thing.


And of course, the son didn't mind when his dad was doing the killing, that was all OK.

EDIT: Wrong topic

Helen, I get what you're saying now. Also, most of the sons should just be sent away to college. They usually cannot live up to their father's rep.

Agree 100% AF.

Just like in any business, the bosses son is frequently not qualified for the position.

If you're in the life and you're married with children, it should be a SINGLE generation means to an end. The end being the education and legitimacy of your children. Period. Dragging your kids into that life, especially TODAY, is deplorable.

I'm no kid, and I'm around these guys all my life (in a peripheral sort of way, I've never pretended to be a fucking gangster and I never will). And it usually doesn't end well for the kids who get sucked in. For every Tore LoCascio, there are ten Craig DePalmas. Poor kid.

My two cents.

Joe m is spending those millions.. he be crazy to try and go public with anything..keep spending joe

agree..Tore is smart enough to stay out of prison, he has enough money for the rest of his life and does not need to earn from the street, he just needs to keep hitting them straight on the fairway..

Without a doubt. He kept plenty. I don't care what the Feds publicly stated about the seizure. They got a sitting boss to roll. Even if they let him keep what he had in his fucking house, he could live in Bumblefuck, America comfortably for two lifetimes.

And I guarantee that Mrs. M meets him every so often. I think a lot of the "disappointment" that his blood family showed in him was for the press.

Agreed PB. The Gravanos showed that same "disappointment" with Sammy and look how they wound up living in Arizona together.

EXCELLENT analogy, Beans. I agree 100%. His family was set to join him from Day One. But they had to keep up appearances in Brooklyn and on Staten Island for a few years first.

And Karen Gravano had to meet with her Producer AND publisher as well PB

Worth at least a quarter...


It's true though. I don't understand why anyone would want this for their kid. You have families like the Fuscos, third generation in the Columbos. Why? They have money, could send the kids to schools anywhere,and instead they send them to the street. It's not an easy life either, I'll never understand.

Some want a Legacy with their children in it and right behind them and to replace them. Others they may not want it for the kids . But it appears that if the kids start to fall into or get interested they are not pushed away .

Well, funny you mention them. Richie and Greg were as thick as thieves (no pun intended). And look how things turned out for Greg's son. Birds of a feather.

The Westside guys usually keep their kids out. Not all of them, mind you. But compared to the other families, there are far fewer "legacies" in the Genovese Family.

Well, when the kids are wild, sometimes you have no choice. You put them on record with yourself, or someone close to you, so that they don't fall in with a pack of wild dogs.

For example, that's what happened to Vinny Basciano with Vinny Jr. And to his credit, Junior, who's doing his time, LIKE A MAN, has learned his lesson.

nothing ever came of that sneaky fuck trying to extort and incriminate the Basciano kids?

Seems like it was only like a year ago and I heard nothing after that

He disappeared off your pal's site too, must have took Lieber for what he was worth and moved onto his next con lol

Either that or the Feds got in Lieber's ear and warned him that if he was a party to such information (because he was spending so much time with him at the time writing that "book"), that the First Amendment didn't apply to him. I could see the guy crying himself to sleep after that, or at least sucking his thumb for a few months.

Lol Pizza

Do you think that the mothers, aunts, or any females play a role in the sons' lives as far as being on the street?? To me, it seems like if you are a very WISE mother you will want the best for your sons and will do anything and everything in your power to make sure you have them under control.

(I hope that's not a silly question)

Italian boys are spoiled by their Mothers but drawn to their Fathers and other older Italian men. It's up to the Father to keep them out of the life.

And I hope that's not sexist. But it is what it is.

Makes complete sense and no it is not sexist.

Thanks. The men are more sensitive than the broads here .

Ha ha you know it. Using the word broad is sexist, gotta watch that word. Some women don't like it. Me, I don't mind it. It's old school just like you

Good enough for Sinatra, good enough for me. You cuckoo broad, you .

Ok kids

Cuckoo broad huh Ya Better Stop, that's what Frankie says.



Edit: I had to put one of those silly cuckoo smilies in

Dominick Montiglio is annoying to me simply because there's something about him that makes me doubt everything he says. When I watch him talk about Demeo and Nino I tend to think that maybe he's coming up with a lot of bullshit to make it more interesting. It also makes me doubt Murder Machine a little bit, since he's the primary source. I don't know, maybe I'm off there.

Michael Franceze on the other hand I enjoy because he's bright and a good speaker. He tells an interesting story. The born again crap I can't listen to.

Nah, not sexist. Of course, I don't speak for all broads

Philly Fay Casale, who was in Pete The Crumb Caprio's crew, was a child rapist.

Proof if ever you needed it that these guys don't give one iota who they do business with if it puts money in their pockets.

Moe, Wasn't Caprio going to kill him after he used him in his plot to kill the Philadelphia Administration but instead were arrested because Fay was wearing a wire against Caprio?

Caprio turned rat too and turned the tables on him.

Being honest, I am reading about this in The Last Gangster.

It fills in a lot of the blanks during the Merlino/Natale era for me.

Man, it does not portray Joey in a good light at all.

But then, we all know the guy has the business acumen of a fly.

Here a re two good articles on Caprio and Casale Moe:

http://articles.philly.com/2006-07-20/news/25403988_1_casale-mob-killings

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/11/turncoat-gangster-gives-mob-history.html

Thanks Beans.

Heh. Merlino drove Caprio to his induction ceremony. He would have been just 20.

I saw that.