Would Casso have killed the Gemini twins.....

Would he have tried to kill them if they hadn't been sent to prison in 89 as 2 or 3 years later he was paranoid and having lots of his crew greased including Patty Testa which wouldn't have gone down well. Your opinions please!?

No, not at first. Casso and Amuso were only out to get everyone identified as an informant. They were trying to clean house to fortify the Lucchese operation against the rest of the federal government. But eventually, Casso, Amuso and the Geminis would have to decide who would be the victor, as there is no honor among thieves.

Didn't Amuso and Casso eventually have a falling out during the time of their incarceration? I rest my case.

The real question is: Who would have come out on top?

I believe Casso and Amuso did have a falling out but don't recall why. Casso didn't want to be boss and wanted Amuso to take it so he could keep making gobs of money. Gemini twins would have been hard to kill and may have gotten to Casso first.

Amuso blamed Casso for him getting captured in PA while on the run.

Some people think their notoriety is overrated but I believe the Gemini twins were pretty feared and clever enough to stay alive and out of jail for as long as they did without cooperating.

I'm not sure how close Casso was to them, except that he was their boss/underboss but if shit hit the fan, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a move for the thrones, even though they were pretty young.

Casso mostly was killing informants based on tips, but not always. He'd also killed people based on suspicion alone.. plus I'm not exactly sure how much I believe his story about the FBI agent who used to feed him info for like 4 grand (a week? I'm not sure) It seems like a bullshit excuse so he could twist his story to appear better in the book.

Casso killed for profits just as much as for informants , prolly more so

He just used the rat as an excuse

As an administrator of a family he was both a monster And disaster

Notice he killed some of the families biggest earners especially in Harlem and Bronx

Bullshit. They killed Mikey Salerno because they wanted the dump in Pennsylvania. No other reason. They hung a rat label on him to justify it in front of the rest of the skippers, but none of them believed it. He was an old man and no threat to them, and he was no fucking stoolie either.

Exactly.

Buddy Luongo should have been boss, in fact, most in that family expected it.
Its a sin that he was killed. Casso had a stable of killers ready and willing to do anything for him.

Interesting what might have happened if Gemini twins had not been in jail when Patty got killed.

Its debated here a lot and that guy buddy was killed in 86 there Noway tony ducks didn't OK it. He was out on bail till late 87. With gotti killing Paul him and chin sent gonna let a capo get clipped in there family without a OK. Did they find buddy's body? Think the twins were family friends to amuso his got to guys.

it's not hard for me to call cassso a serial killer. I think he was a homicidal maniac, as was scarfo.

why make excuses for the scumbag. he loved to kill.

In all fairness, people would have thought of rivals like Accetturo as boss material too and he ended up ratting.

Who knows about this Luongo guy? He may not have been a psychopath but he could have ended up a rat. Both are detrimental to these people.

Did they really end up getting transported in a prison van together at one point? In Carlo's book, it said that they ended up being transported together by coincidence and Amuso told Casso something like "I bet you regret ratting".

Sammy did the some of the same thing. Psychopaths. Funny both underbosses who got over on their bosses.

The porn guy was a supposed big earner. DB I think. Under conte. Milito a supposed best friend. Militos wife's book has some good info. Even says at the end jimmy brown and watts came and saw her looking to find info on Sammy for their trial.

Sorry to get off subject. For some reason when I think of casso I think of Sammy too

If I recall correctly Accetturo ratted cause they were going to kill him?

Maybe because both were almost impossible to do business with. Their behaviour had more in common with that of a feral dog with rabies. Whacking the other party was as fulfilling as the financial gain they could have gotten out of the business transaction.

Actually been on another board arguing most of your points.

A guy doesn't pay today. You're most likely up on him any way. Why expose yourself by hurting the guy.

The old days are gone and they ain't coming back.

It's working now. But in the long run it's going to be difficult for them to keep the fear alive without the violence to back it up. And without the fear, they're just a bunch of Payday Loan guys who collect in a tracksuit instead of debiting it from your checking account. That's why the non-violence is a Catch-22. But they'll survive for quite awhile for the very reasons that you state: Legit, secret, and no violence.


I wouldn't go that far because the Government will always have a hard-on for undeclared income. But that's easily remedied. It's why the smarter guys pay their taxes and declare most of their income. The dummies will always end up in jail.

Spot-on.

DB, I thought the Perna's have the biggest book in Jersey, obviously the Westside are 3 or 4 times the size of them in Jersey though.

I'm curious about the Gambino's in NJ, don't here a lot from them, how strong are they. I know they've got 2 crews out there but surely there small in size.

As for people actually entertaining the idea of the Gemini twins taking out Casso & Amuso Like two low level soldiers would go up against a whole family of killers like that.

The Twins were not soldiers, they were associates.

Young naive guy here, but "legit rackets"? Is that not an oxymoron?

And DP, I believe Senter and Testa were finally made into the Lucchese family a year or two before they went to prison.

Probably, Moe. Things like garbage and construction run above board are legitimate enterprises. But they're both rackets nonetheless .

Yes they were, Casso made them.

Yaeh al darco says the twins where inducted same ceremony as his son Joseph. 1988 probably couple months before there bail was revoked for sniffing coke in the fed court house bathroom during there retrial. Might be the crazyest mafia story ever. Think there's a old daily news article on it.

Read pmac's post above!!

Hahah get outta here pmac seriously those two maniacs did rails of blow in the fed courthouse during what a lunch recess? Where did u hear that story cuz ur right if thats true thats the craziest most gangster thing ive heard in a while. That just says i dont give a fuck if i have to sit thru this boring court shit then im gonna be tooted up... Im an attorney and even i think doin that in court is hilarious and insanely ballsy

Well, that's it. If they only kill each other that's one thing. But the Feds still won't tolerate another Colombo type war or anything like what's been going on in Canada these past few years.


I see that argument made every so often and I don't agree with it. Because if a made guy or a well known associate disappears, it makes the same headlines as when one of them gets murdered. Think Hoffa (for the most public example ever, but you get my point).

I've read Casso's book (by Carlo which is doubtful) and I've read the books about the DeMeo crew including his son's. The Gemini twins were pure psychpaths, made of the same material as serial killers like Ted Bundy, etc. their only difference being they were involved in a Mafia context.
I get they didn't have much clout and support but you can't underestimate them.. I honestly think they'd have a fair chance at taking out Casso. It's not like the rest of the family STRONGLY supported keeping somebody like Casso and Amuso in power.

I tend to agree. Anyone can kill anyone on any given day. Especially where psychopaths are concerned. Now the twins would have ended up dead or in jail anyway, but had they whacked Casso it would have staved off a lot of turmoil and unrest.

The '80s really were a volatile time, especially in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Takes me back, though. I turned 21 in 1980, and 30 in 1989. And your 20's are arguably the most memorable decade of your life (marriage, career, etc.). So enjoy them now, boys .

That's possibly the most deranged statement I've ever heard.

Check your pm, DB.

Testa maybe,,,Senter no.

Both were. I'll take D'arco's word for it.

in Murder machine nino gaggi mentions that all of tehn guys in the demeo crew testa was the only one ever to get made, cuz full Italian, anynone cann elaborate on the story of the twins snorting coke durin ther trial, I don't think that's the reason their bail was revoke, it think it was mostly cuz of their heinous crimes and charges againist them, also testa might get out in 15 years from now if he is healthy and Anthony too

Both Senter and Testa were made. D´Arco confirmed this in his book. I think he said he was at the ceremony. No reason at all to doubt what he said. Gaggi died on April 15, 1988. Senter and Testa were made in the fall of 1988. So while Gaggi was still alive, neither Testa or Senter were made. Besides, Murder Machine was based on Montiglio´s information. By 1988, Montiglio was not longer around.

Really? I mean in all the statements that you've heard, the one that calls the Gemini twins psychopaths is possibly the most deranged?

Maybe it was an overstatement but they are psychopathic killers and the DeMeo crew is the one most often compared to serial killers. You should read some of their stories, just the one mentioned above about tooting lines in court shows their mentality - they gave 0 shits.

Should that be plural?

A shit implies one shit.

They gave two shits implies plural.

But they gave 0 shits? I'm gonna have to check with Merriam Webster on this. But don't worry, I'll get back to you because I know this is the kind of thing that keeps a guy up at night.

they were exactly as you say malandrino, sickos from the word go.

they killed for thrills, much like the serial killers that they were. any family that made them were stupid, if they were on the streets made, they would be like casso, and scarfo bringing down their families.

remebr reading something that senter had a no show job or was collecting union benefits I can really remember like 10+ yrs ago and got them taken way. about him being a made guy hes posing in a lot of pics with all made member the pic with him and casso and I think amuso, jail picks with perisco. lil al says he kinda was the speaker of the ceremony of his son joe and the gem twins. yaeh I don't remember but theres a classic article about the twins getting busted in the fed courthouse bathroom doing coke there first trial was like 18months and dead locked I think and the second probably longer. the daily news and times got there old articles locked you got to pay $$$

I agree Binnie they were never leadership material, but then again Casso wasn't much of a good leader either.

Damn you PB now I gotta think about this. You're making me doubt my level of the English language now, thanks a lot. Gonna post the question in Yahoo answers, with all them nutcases there maybe we might get some good answers