Most Generous Boss

Were there any bosses out there that really spread the wealth with their soldiers?

Big Paul to Bilotti took care of him pretty good.
Carmine P took good care of Hugh (not a soldier but as close as poss)

Orena was considered pretty generous by his troops, much more than Persico had ever been.

I'm not completely sure but I think Carmine Galante didn't have much of a tight reign over his family since he was mostly busy with the heroin pipeline where most of his money came from. Maybe he left running the family to his underboss Nicky Marangello?

Vito Genovese gave his soldiers thousands at the drop of a hat. The power-hungry guy did this as a plot to win over the troops when he made moves to be boss. The reasons don't really matter much though. Many bosses wouldn't do it for any reason.

I think Gigante had something like that the skippers didn't have to kick up to him and that they could keep the money they had to kick up.

He wasn't a greedy guy at all. That's why there have been so many wealthy captains in the Genovese family. Things run a lot smoother when everybody eats.

offtopic, but PB I had a question about the Genovese but I didn't want to start a thread for this. Why is the Genovese family also called the Westside?

I think I knew who was the tightest boss, joe profaci was the most stingy, and gave nothing according to jr persico. jr made a score one time and it was for 4ooo bucks, when profaci found out, he took it and gave jr 200 dollars back, and then made him pay monthly dues.

he at first joined the gallos rebellion because of profacis squezzing every nickel from all his soldiers.

read john gotti wasn't greedy that's why his capo loved him.

Vince's club was in the West Village. It also refers to their dominance in Jersey, which is west of New York.

Thanks

I know you're the resident Genovese expert PB, but I have to mention, that the Luciano Family had always been the richest mafia family with the greatest number of millionaires, at least in Lucky Luciano's time. I think that goes back to his way of ruling, to let everyone wet their beak and keep everyone happy enough to put their guns away, at least temporarily. He had to adopt that non-tyrannical style of governance since it was greed that got his predecessors whacked.

Is it safe to say that when it was the Masseria Gang, people weren't as happy with the taxes they had to pay?

I don't know who the most generous boss is, but Lucky Luciano is right up there. He was popular because he allowed a lot of people to get and stay rich.

Really, I heard somewhere that Gigante micromanaged his troops and was a little greedy too... not "Profaci-greedy", just a little greedy. I think I heard his troops complaining about it in one of the wiretaps (maybe in WMob or somewhere else) and he's also been described as greedy in one documentary I watched recently. I guess people always find something to complain, so probably not true.

I always thought the term Westside mostly referred to the panel set up to rule the family, or upper-echelon of the family including the capos.

That's okay, Alfa. And yes, it's always been that way. Vince was only doing what he learned from Benny, and down the line right back to Luciano. These guys not only encouraged spreading the wealth, they encouraged assimilation. They'd tell their soldiers to learn how to play golf instead of pinochle. Because they had the vision to see that they'd eventually need the legitimate business contacts to survive.


That's not true, Malandrino. Like you said, you can't please everyone. Simple as that. But there are skippers who were in place when Vince took over who were actually starving under Benny and Funzi. And they weren't greedy either, so that's really saying something.


It refers to their dominance on the west side, and in Jersey. I believe that law enforcement actually had a hand in coming up with that moniker. But that's usually the case with these guys anyway. They read something in the paper and run with it themselves. Life imitates art, etc.

If so then I guess he really was the best boss in the last 30 years or so. Not being greedy goes a long way as a boss, it's basically what gave Orena his following among other things... but you have to be tough too because it could also be perceived as a weakness by the guys if you don't ask for much.

I know what you mean. In the words of Burt Young's character in Once upon a time in America: "Life is funnier than shit!"

i remember reading something in benny lombardos fbi files that he had a coat check stand at the copa cobana and vito genovese, while he was the boss, took it from him. idk if it was a personal thing or if genovese was really that greedy...but it seems like a non generous thing to do lol

on those wmob wiretaps bw frank condo and giovanelli they were complaining about having to play cards at the triangle and everyone would always let gigante win. i wonder what would have happened if gigante himself got a hold of those transcripts before he died... some pretty unkind stuff spoken about him there. but most people in america can rightfully gripe about their boss i guess

Bad blood there because Vince went nuts after that cop got killed.

what is the story/motive behind the hit on the cop? seems really fucking strange...

those wiretaps of condo and fritzy are hilarious... there is a whole website that has audio of all the calls there is a bunch of them.. its great they literally talk about everything.. just two old guys shooting the shit.

I heard a good story about how kind Joe Bonanno was to this kid who worked for him.

This kid (teenager) was working at the time shining shoes.
Joe noticed the kid was an earner and gave him a job paid him a dollar a day to shine his shoes in late 50's. He left the shoes at a store where the kid could pick up and leave after shine. As he got a little older Joe told the kid I got a real job for u at Wedding hall in Astoria. Go there tell them I sent u. He was hired as a busboy. His main job was to take care of the Bride n Grooms table. They told him that the minimum the tip would be for table is 100 dollars and if u hustle make a lot more from tips at other tables. The kid made 280 his first night.

So the headguy told the kid he had to throw his money in with everyone elses. So the kid threw in his money. He got 50 dollars. In that day it was alot but the kid was pissed out of the 280 he threw in and adding up what other guys should have got he should have walked away with alot more. So what could the kid do but go home with his 50 dollars. He saw Joe the next morning after taking care of his shoes. Joe asked how he made out .He told Joe what happened .Joe said so do me a favor go to that Wedding Hall right now. The kid said he was off. Joe said what did I say. The kid was off to the wedding.


The kid went back to Wedding Hall. When he got there the head guy who told him that he had to throw his money in was there n told him Hey kid I made a mistake here's the 280. So the kid said here is ur 50 back lookin to do the right thing. The guy said no u keep it just tell Joe I took care of U. He never had problem after that.

Lol that's a good story never heard it before. I heard somewhere that Joe Bonanno was a real mean guy to his troops and even Galante had to take some shit from him, but who knows maybe that was a bullshit story.

"As greedy as joe bananas" was a phrase I'd seen written somewhere.

Although Bonanno has written an autobiography he's an unreliable narrator. and as leader of one of the most insular crime families he was and still is a bit of an enigma. Greed could refer to his lust for more and more territory.

Angelo Bruno allowed Harry Riccobene to run his won organization without kicking up to him except small symbolical presents, what about others, did anyone else enjoy local independency under Bruno?

Look at it this way...would you go to your father on his birthday without bringing a gift?

Frankie Flowers

I think you could call it autonomy instead of independency.

He's one of the few bosses of his generation to have a full-scale rebellion by unhappy capos/soldiers/adim un-seat him. Even if it was supported by outsiders it tells us what some of his people thought of him. One way of seeing it is that he was greedy in screwing over a lot of guys who had been loyal for years out of a shoot for the boss position by trying to put his son in the seat.

Even by his own admission in passages of his book he spent as much time out of town as he could and stayed aloof of affairs on the street, that couldn't have gone down well with blue collar crews and capos.

Evertying I've heard about Tommy Lucchese paints him as a generous boss who treated people who were to loyal to him well. He had a house in a suburbs of Long Island and didn't put on airs like living in a penthouse like Costello or a well-guarded mansion like Anastasia.

Does anyone have the web address?


Thx.

http://www.wmob.com/prev.html

They talk about a lot of stuff. Sex, pills, movies, whatever comes up.

Thx Red.

The Bananas war started with Morales and some captains nominating Bill for the consigliere spot. Gaspar was pissed because he had coveted the position ever since Tartamella no longer was in the capacity to function in that postition so he went crying to his brother in law Magaddino up in Buffalo. If greed had anyting to do with the start of the Bananas war, it was due to the rebelliuos soldiers and captains who were financially squeezed by the Commission keeping them out from rackets like union jobs, rights to the NY airports etc.

Hairy who is your avatar?

Cheers.

John Lardiere, Genovese soldier.

I thought it was Larry David.

Lardiere.... Larry David.

Did Lardiere go into witsec and start a new identity as Larry David?

The 'what are you gonna do now tough guy?' story is commonplace, but has anyone got any other info on Lardiere?

Ie why was he hit? Who he was he with? What was he into? Etc etc

Thx

He was a made guy under "Lodi" Pete LaPlaca, same crew Tino Fiumara was part of. He actually served an indifinite term for contempt and was killed during a furlough. I don´t know why he was killed, but I read somewhere (and this makes sense) that Lardiere had beaten up another made guy in prison, and paid the ultimate price for it. I don´t remember who or any other details though. Lardiere wasn´t very much liked anyway, especially after his "rabbi" Gene Catena died in 1967.

where was lodi pete laPlaca's based out of?

^^^ Probably Lodi, NJ.

Oh i didn't know his nickname was acctually the place Sorry bout that.There's a ton of info on the wiki about New Jersey Genovese's,don't know if it is true or not.They mention a lot of counties.

Thanks HK.

Good info as always.

Cheers HK.

I think you have the right slant on the bonanno war. bill bonanno has always said that the war was all of maggadinos idea.


old man bonanno. and Stephan maggadino were cousins. both from castellarese del gulfo. many bonanno soldiers didn't consider bill bonanno as a true Mafioso.

and that resentment spilled over also. you always have great info, HK.

I had heard or should I say read that Mimi Scialo was very gererous with his crew and that they all made money.

I would have to say Vince and VB

Vince let others beneath him actually out earn him , he was smart to know whats the difference having $50m vs $100m

If you actually have a boss that followed the rules and took care of family members when they went away or paid their bail / lawyers when they got pinched CN would be in a much better position. It would be about the family and less about money. I even think the ear was trying or testing this.

Gotti is despised here cuz off his FU position to the Feds and he went out of his way to seek the media instead of this thing being secret.

But as far as being a boss and helping out his members with bail and legal expenses he was one of the better ones . In all honesty if he just ducked the media and lived by the secret society law , he was actually a decent boss .
He was out there with his troops , accessible , took less than most , was ok with others starting biz rather than kin . He Should of had a front boss but his ego wouldn't allow it , guys like Gallo , Armone would have been perfect at one time for that role IMO. His ego also led him to put JR in a position he never should have , Chin had it right it should have been Brown as boss and Marino as under with a quiet old timer as front .

He liked to talk to much and the reason he went to that apt is he didn't want to do his walk ealks in the cold winter . His trials should of been clear to him to shut the F up , have his loyal fronts do the talking and meeting and relaying orders. Not to mention his wed. family meets were ridiculous , family matters should have been compartmentalized with only the top knowing who is doing what .

West side almost runs like the cia and is why to this day they still have huge vast interests that most don't even know about "need to know and plausible deniability ".

Now the luchese as one poster mentioned and no one likes to discuss may not have been as big in size but we're tremendous earners and were and are very divserified and except for the casso reign not many knew to a large degree what they were doing , even today they are making $ fee know . They are essentially a WS jr and have been for many decades outside casso disaster timeframe .

There is stil a ton to be made in book , building , carting, green , stealing and extortion ( tittys and eateries still bring in size able amounts .

Violence is down as a mandate, prolly from WS, $ is down , scams are down and although many are brokesters but are many are cash cows , kind of like the loss of the middle class today the smarts ones just transformed into legit biz ( technically what they did was illegal but all that was needed was to restructure into the legit side of the biz like constructing , recycling , pay day loans - which is even more profitabale than usuary loans as its fully collateralized loans with a low probability of loss but still huge margins , pawn shops- similar to pay day - 30% return in 90 days plus 100% collAterlized and still 2+ points , restaurants , titty bars - running and extortion and a way to get ur muscle a real job and possibly w benefits.

I may be way off but I was told recently sharking volume is way way, it just not worth the risk as these guys are backing off the so called hard collect . Others prolly know better here than me but this is what ideas told from someone that would know. Now someone that was smart would just start up legal pay day loan w collateral . Not to mention huge money laundering schemes, just look up the recent huge bust in Newark that was doing tens of millions . Even books are almost all run off shore today , minimizing a lot of the exposure to promoting gambling

If i were a member id be in payday loans , smaller subcontractor surrounding hotels and other condo buildings , a package run by a trusted family member Amd money laundering thru various if these businesses plus if I had time , lol , recycling or helping starting up one for a nice piece

But this is all just my humble uneducated opinion lol

There has to be scenario's where the boss doesn't have the most money in the family like:

Didn't Franzese earn more than Persico?
AND
Didn't Narducci earn more than Bruno?

Not sure anyone can every prove what I said correct but, just heard that these two guys were very rich and may lead a boss to be more greedy for fear of being unseated.

Of course, and there have also been associates worth more money than bosses. On paper, anyway.

I guarantee you that if you took Angelo Ponte's liquid assets, that he's worth more than the sitting heads of the Five Families combined right now. And again, that's just on paper (but maybe off, too ).

PB wasn't kidding.

Deets: http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/08/nyregi...r-s-wealth.html

With famine perisco and his huge family including threw marriage he couldn't have taxed them so much all my nerd reading on scarpa he never told the feds what he kicked up. But he told on his capo scarpetti a lot in the 80tys pinning murders and all. Blind loyalty. When perisco was on the street 1980 everyone with pull in the family is related. Good way to run a boro.

Interesting. I thought it referred to their roots in neighborhoods like Chelsea, Meatpacking district, Hell's Kitchen and West Village.

It does. I pointed out the West Village because that's where the Triangle was. But it really did apply to the entire west side at one time. And Jersey, too.

Pb is Ponte still active or is he in the can? According to wiki which I know is mostly bs says he also owns a rest in the west village? This guy seems like a total criminal genius and has or had expanded his waste hauling into vast holding companies and subsidiaries to make shit tons of money. Im fascinated by how he and other genovese crew bosses have managed to lay low and earn legit and illegit money

Any more info you can share on Ponte or other Genovese capos that are big time earners? Idk if you pb or others shared this info b4 but me not bein from ny just curious on any insight ..thanks

Angelo is retired

Plus he was more legit than most and only an associate , technically at least

He's retired. And he was never all that "active" to begin with. He never went out on a score in his life. Just the garbage, and then the real estate.


The restaurant closed about a year and a half ago after more than forty years. They were way ahead of the curve in TriBeCa. There was nothing there but warehouses and meat packers back then.


Not a criminal genius, just a business genius who had a few "partners" over the years.


Angelo was never even made, let alone a capo. The Westside doesn't normally make their big time garbage guys. There's too much to lose via licensing and dealing with the anti-trust laws.

Why would he want it anyway? When you have that kind of money and you're looking to get your finger pricked in a childish ceremony you need to have your head examined .


And I just saw your post, DB. You already answered him. Sorry about that.

Angelo Ponte in Boca FL.

Wow!.....I have been reading about LCN for 2-3 years and have NEVER heard of this Ponte guy.....Amazing! and, he is still alive at age 90.

Still, the record holder is Sonny Franzese who's 97 I believe and in the can what a tough sonofabitch.

He was willing to give up his son years ago.

No prob PB , your knowledge is deeper on him

On only know the younger generation but they still have a lot gong on for them

Their businesses will be passed down forever

Went to a family weeding a couple years ago , very nice but you can tell the old

Taught these kids about keeping to yourself , not some gotti kids thats for sure

And Ang and his kids are legonda in TriBeCa , he rarely raised rents in his residential bldgs

Check out this book Italian/Irish I thought it was a good read. It tells you a lot about him and some other cast of characters. When i say characters, i mean guys you wouldn't want to have any problems with. They still have trucks rollin' in the NY/NJ area. The garbage is in their blood, plus that business is so lucrative they always find their way back in through front men/women.

Pb thanks for the response sir, much appreciated. my mistake I was under the impression he was made and a capo, but he just earned like one apparently.

Didnt mean to mis-characterize him as a criminal genius, you're right with the legitimate businesses he was into why get made when you can avoid having to kick up even more and be more of a target, solid point.

Going by what I've read and you said he seems to be one of the richest and smartest associates...compare that to philly where I'm from and i dont know of any associate let alone made guy that has earned nearly that much and stayed off the LE radar