Who was dumber Gotti Jr or Allie Boy

Things to consider:

Gotti Jr
•He was a shit negociator who lost the ear of the Genovese family
•When the FBI raided his house he had a list of made men in his own family and in other families

Allie Boy
•Was caught speeding in his boat and when stopped the coast guard found a shotgun and handgun onboard


In my opinion Gotti Jr was more of an idiot, at least Allie boy got into college and waited as long as he could before ascending to the Colombo family leadership even if he only lasted a year at least he kept the family in good face and held some respect from the troops

think I read he tried to throw them overboard. im probably wrong. seems like allie boy was more into the life. he did 10yrs about to get out they hit him with all the Colombo war shit he wins gets rite back into the life orders wild bills murder been in jail 15 yrs later. that guy put in half his life hes not 60ty yet. like father like son. remebr reading some guys wire the persico the most vicious and never forget a slite. think it was in mob on wall street a great book. allie had his cousins in on all them scams.

U forgot to mention john Jr also had several hundred grand in a cracked safe, which looked dodgy but was supposedly his wedding money

It was not lil Allie Boys yacht it was a friend and it was not his gun. Wrong place wrong time.

Who is dying in prison?

Actually, maybe except for that incident I haven't heard anything else about Little Allie boy being an imbecile.. he was real "Cosa Nostra" from what I've seen, even in these boards... so Gotti takes the prize here.

EDIT: I mean if we're judging them as effective or efficient (acting) bosses, of course. If not, then Gotti did get out from the life and is doing much better in life.

Hard to top Gotti in the dumbs department. I heard that they sent him out to blow up a car, and he burned his lips on the tailpipe.

Gotti jr was a bad mobster, but I actually came away impressed by his interviews. He's not a dumb guy- he beat the feds repeatedly and seems to do ok out of the life.

Yeah, like any of these kids would call either of them dumb to their faces. Allie Boy has fucking death in his eyes, and Junior was built like a brick shithouse and could handle himself just fine back in the '80s and '90s.

Steroids and "book stupid"? Sure. But go tell him that. He's easy to find. Half of you stalkers have probably Google earthed/mapped his place in Oyster Bay a hundred times anyway. He opens his own door and gets his own mail and everything. Go ahead, ask him .

As far as Allie Boy, he's doing life. So as futile as I think this question is, the answer is as as plain as day. But again, Allie could give you a stroke just by looking at you, so I wouldn't even ask him that question through seven inches of tempered glass .

And it's good to see you posting again, Philip_Lombardo .

Exactly.

Junior supposedly killed a guy in a street fight when he was younger, right? It got covered up or something.

Junior WAS a very dangerous kid, like him or not. Don't let anyone bullshit you on that one.

I don't think he was dumb in the least bit, I would call it immaturity, trying to live up to his fathers approval. Let's face it, John Gotti Sr and Carmine Persico were two different types of wiseguys, especially bosses. Allie Boy & John Jr had two different upbringings.

In this day in age, who in the world would actually be stupid or blind enough to think there's a future in the mafia. Junior is older and a friend of mine in Long Island knows him and his wife through one of their children. I was told that he had a wonderful relationship with his kids and truly is a good dad. I have no reason not take his word for it. He said that Junior is cordial and polite to the other parents...but mostly stays with the wife at events and sports. In my book...changing his life for his family beats prison any day of the week.

Fact of the matter is that when Gotti was indicted and held without bail, Junior became his dad's conduit in his late 20's and early 30's. Plus, Junior didn't grow up like his dad, he lived in Howard Beach...more shielded from the life than his dad was. He probably looked up to most of these guys and now he's giving them orders. Bound to make mistakes along the way, especially with the immaturity aspect of it.

A lot of old timers will say "you get old too fast and wise too late." Junior though has skeletons...still...and he's got to live with that looming over him while any person who is still alive that knows the truth could come forward anytime and finger him for something...how many times he been through it already?

Well put, Oscar.

Unless you give each each an IQ test, there is no answer. I could tell you Gotti Jr. had more common sense. Look where he's living and look at Allie Boy. Didn't Allie get fingered by Chris Van Ludwigsen?

Yes Chris Paciello was at the JCB Lounge down in Miami Florida and violated his super-vised release

Gotti JR comes across as educated and was quite articulate during his interview. He didnt try and act like a tough guy and gave no excuses, he actually came across as likable in a way. Its obvious he is much more mature now. I have nothing against the guy at all. He also seems to be a very good father.

I never met him, but my friend has lived about a 1/2 mile away from him for over 15 years. They've all been chaperones and chauffeurs for their kids and my buddy told me that the subject never came up and that he never mentions his father...he's especially tight with his girl. When I hear something like that from a guy who I trust implicitly and have known for 25 years, it's nice to see somebody who almost paid with his life in prison choose to walk away and focus on what's really important in life.

Dago is a midwest term for italians, are you a Clev guy

difference is allie boy knew C.N. J.R. knew street corner gang stuff. stopped listening to guys who knew the life .. got greedy , thought he was smarter, thought his last name made him absolute power and respected. he got in the batters box, closed his eyes and started swinging..instead of keeping his eye on the ball and taking a few and learning how to hit. his greed sent him to the can..never supposed to get pinched in the scores case.

Well, that's true. And you know how highly I regard Tore, and not just because of his Pop. But Greg tried to undermine Tore there because he put Craig in Junior's ear, and he sent them all to prison as a result.

boy that is true, tore hates JR..and for good reason..JR screwed up with some guys during the scores case. he was furious with everyone one pinched, he should have taken it out on himself. greed and the newly found greg deplama and his big mouth doomed JR.. i hope tore stays away and hits them straight and far.naples or the bronx plus millions.Hmmm what would i take.

worst offense was he kept the lists of guys that got made in other families..he knew he was smothered in agents..hide that stuff with someone out of the life..not in a place you stay at everyday. allie did the same thing got caught with shylock lists

You don't know the half of it (of course you do, that's just an expression ).

Greg had Willie believing that he had all the strength of a made guy, which was obviously bullshit. And I don't condone that he flipped, but you know as well as I do that sometimes these guys create their own rats.

That money in Willie's basement was mostly Greg's, and as soon as the Scores pinch came down Greg put Craig in Junior's ear to distance himself from Willie. A kid that had been as loyal as a dog for ten years, yet Greg started putting the word out that Willie was dealing junk and steroids and holding out because it was too much cash for him to have.

Greg was never getting Willie his button (he wasn't even Italian, regardless of the rumors). But he was a loyal kid and tough as fucking nails. Greg turned him into rat there. Willie never should have left Vinny Artuso. He'd be in Florida now, semi-retired. I'm 55, and if I remember right I have about five or six years on Willie. But he'd be living the good life at fifty instead of what happened up there.

And what they did to that poor fuck in Witness Protection I won't even post. But that's what you get for trusting the Government (so he's not innocent either, I'm just making the point against the way Greg ran his crew).

that is true, JR abused willie in county, greg and craig lied to JR about scores..they made willie a bouncer with eyes on moving tore out. controlling hop and his son..and the jews. JR fell for the B.S. went against tore , got himself pinched. and changed history..

If Mikey Hop wasn't the dumbest half-wiseguy in the history of the Bronx, then his moron son beat him out by half an IQ point. They snowballed the whole fucking thing.

It all started at the place on Boston and Conner anyway. It was a part of the grand design. They gave Willie a suit, told him he was an owner, and conned him into believing that he'd be an owner in Manhattan one day.

And they got all the start up money for Pretty Woman from Fat Pete, the rat in Greg's next case, which is very ironic if you ask me .

That kid was no wiseguy, either. His family got rich in the tuxedo and wedding dress business (and they're GOOD people, don't get me wrong there). But he had no business in the street. He left the program, too. Lives publicly up in Connecticut. It's over.

didn't one of the jews have something to do with a catering hall up there? scores case had the two jews flip, hop, willie, carlino, then craig in atlanta.. the G had a party.. greg gave them everyone on tape from his house..he was told by a cop his house was bugged and still blabbed. had to be twenty guys pinched from his tapes..

Yeah, Mike Blutrich had a piece of the place in New Rochelle. He's the one who REALLY thought he was a wiseguy. But he was a pussy.

Vinny DiNapoli owned half of Shore Road. Blutrich had the balls to approach him about buying the old Glen Island Casino property. Vinny laughed at him, told him he was nobody, and he ended up buying into that dump closer to Iona. I forget the name.

Allie boy was arrested in his daughter's apartment, they also found around $30k under the bed. Which isn't a great amount but seriously, who the fuk hides money under the bed in this day & age. It's the first place thieves go to. Forget the FBI

I would say that alie boy probably got introduced to the life way earlier than Jr and he was a much more capable gangster but there is stories of Jr murdering people but it was all personal nightclub fights and personal beefs.There are no stories of alie boy murdering people during his rise but only someone naive would think that alie boy doesnt have bodies on him.Jr was also notorious for losing sitdowns but at the end of the day he is wealthy out of the life and has hollywood contacts and alie boy has been in prison since he was in his mid 40s and will die there

Alphonse Persico completed high school and was offered a place in law school. Instead, he chose to become a mobster. He's spent half his life in prison.

Tragic. Stupid. Waste.

That mugshot says "I have fucked up my life".

Grew up not too far from downtown Cleveland

Does anybody know anything about little allie boys daughter's alleged suicide?

lucky guess

why do alot of people call Jr a rat??

first rule .never admit to CN.. there are no degrees to ratting ..if you say that you are a rat..

Extortion PM me

why does jr gotti get to keep his mansion, and all of his properties? while the feds go after poor Vinnie bascianos wife?

did jr make a deal with somebody?

Bc he didnt get convicted of anything...

Didn't Basciano put a contract out on a prosecutor or a judge or something? And he was tied to several murders.

Gotti has undoubtedly been directly involved in several murders and by all rights should be locked up, but as Dellacroce said, he hasn't been convicted of something.

If he didn't want his wife being "victimised" maybe he should have found another line of work.... or ratted like Massino.

Yh I was away for a while shouldn't let college work pile up but yeh Lilyhammer made me think of you guys and I came back XD

well Ally Boy just did not make the right choice by stayin in university, in the other hand junir Gotti is just not or was never ready for th mob life unlike Persico who is pure cosa nostra, but the thruth is Gotti Jr is free unless he screws up and Ally boy is in prison for life, dumb or no dumb .both are dumb in one way or another , but Jr Gotti is the most fortunate HES FREE

I don't remember whether there already was a thread about who the dumbest mobster is, but I think nobody (including Allie boy and Gotti Jr) could ever beat Rosario Borgio (put a bounty on every policeman's head after failing to bribe them) and Jack Licavoli (used stolen credit cards and exchanged price tags on pants in shops).

Allie Boy was too ruthless and eager for his own good. He was like his dad. Gotti was no punk, but he was no boss material either. Sorta like Nicky Scarfo JR.

edit: btw, neither were dumb, both were the opposite.

I remember reading somewhere he was one cheap s.o.b. but never knew how true it was.

Greg DePalma used to steal things like hats and gloves out of fancy department stores all the fucking time. And this as a captain .

he even robbed Leroy

this is the same greg depalma that had his picture taken with Sinatra and Gambino? the one with frattiano in it.

yes

Now that's pretty bad. Is it the criminal mind mentality of I'm taking it who's gonna stop me or was he just a real mootivan?

Yeah so? Massino stole like a piece of gum or something on the lam and got caught LOL

And you should steal someone else's jokes because yours are not funny

I can't get anything by you, buddy .

Do you remember the men's store in Cross County that was there for like forty years? Of course you do. There were a couple, but you know the one I mean. All the guys shopped there.

Anyway, the place had the same manager for practically the entire time the store was there. Italian American guy, but not a street guy at all. Wasn't a gambler, never took a nickel off a shy. But he grew up down Park Hill with a lot of guys (Nicky Vitulli and that crew). But he never got involved. A real square guy, but he knew who was who and what was what. In short, a NICE guy.

Greg had this poor soul so shit scared off his rep, that he'd walk in the store, put on a hat and a shirt, and walk the fuck out like it was nothing. And the poor bastard ended up paying for the shit half the time because he was too honest to play with the books (even though it was much easier back then).

That was Greg DePalma for you. But you know as well as I do that he NEVER would have pulled that crap at Vito's or Fox's. Getting shelved would have been the least of his problems .

poor guy ive worked in retail he should of just written it down as shoplifting when it was time to do inventory his boss wouldnt of said anything because stores actually expect some stock to go missing.He also should of talked to some of the other wisegys in the neighbourhood to look out for him

he bullied anyone he could, played his role to the hilt..did the same in restaurants..i wonder how many guys spit in his food or screwed with it and had a laugh on him..he was real close to mario g. and the west side guys. he almost ruined john a. defoe.

Yeah, to a degree. But he lost a big sitdown to Little Jimmy and Matty once. And Prisco couldn't stand him. But those were isolated incidents and three very heavy guys.

And you're right on point about how he behaved in restaurants. Like an animal. To fucking waiters and bartenders, too. Poor working people. Look how he acted in Dave's joints. Tony C, that junkie head waiter cocksucker was buried up his ass.

PB I'm gonna start stealing rats mafia books , they shouldn't get the money so everyone should just steal them

it was Paracetemol

I disagree I think Junior was sort of a punk and I think some other Gambinos felt like that too.

Junior Gotti is a brainless thug and lowlife piece of shit. He stabbed a kid to death in a petty bar fight. He started a fight with an off duty officer in a bar (backed up by his fellow knuckledraggers of course). There are plenty of stories about him starting fights in dive bars. There are plenty of stories about his infamous stupidity. He tried to assassinate Curtis Sliwa for God's sake!!!! Someone who actually contributes to society and tries to make the streets safer for normal people.

It's fair to say Gotti wouldn't have got made were it not for his father and if he did he had he probably would have got imprisoned within a year and probably ratted.

Now he can pretend he's a good John Q. Citizen because he has enough blood money not to be in the mob anymore and/or is too stupid and carries too much baggage.

This Persico cat is the polar opposite of Gotti in the sense that he was unlucky and Gotti was lucky, and that Persico was intelligent and Gotti was an imbecile.

It must eat him up inside that that little wimp Cutolo kid, whose own father was ashamed of him, ultimately, put him under.

the colombos wouldn't have been in half the mess they r in today if they had just kept cutolo as underboss

Ive said this before about Jnr and the Gotti's. Call them what you want but they're stand up.

Jnr did TEN years and faced FOUR trials facing LIFE and never flipped.

I know the 'rules' are you're never meant to 'admit' to CN and because Jnr did he's a 'rat', but facing four life terms, after doing ten years is pretty damn stand up, imo.

And he never once came close to flipping so to suggest he wouldve, is baseless.

Almost everything you say is true, but you have NO FUCKING IDEA how many bodies Allie Boy has on him. I only mention this because you're a bit of a moralist. And I'm not judging you for that, that's fine with me. You know I'm quick to call these guys out myself on their shortcomings. I just did it with Greg, and I KNEW the man half my life.

But if you're gonna call Junior a murderer (and he might be), you better know that Allie Boy would kill you, then sit down to steak dinner within ten minutes. Like nothing ever happened. He's an intelligent guy (book smart, too). But he's also without conscience. Just so you know .

And you never returned my last pm, so I hope all is well on the Emerald Isle .

i didn't know angelo disliked him..but how can you like him..louie r. had his hands filled with him..two different personalities

Oh yeah. You remember Louie's nephew? I loved him, so I won't post his name, even though he's been dead for ten years. The guy with the wig. Anyway, by the end he got stuck in the middle of those two. I hated to see that.

for me louie can't be wrong, greg tried to make louie look weak..he was just straight. no angles that i knew of.

I of course never met a NY mobster and guessing that most mobsters aren't guys to be messed with won't directly earn you a degree in psychology, but just judging from pictures alone Prisco looked like he REALLY wasn't anyone to be fucked with.

Right on point. A gentleman. A tough guy. True CN.

Pizza, for a small fee we can show killing joke a couple suits, and a tour of harlem..lol

His club was right off Westchester Square. It was called the Angelique lol. Bronx remembers.

Anyway, that picture of him in the tracksuit that they used in the casino black book made him look like Manson. He's nothing like that. Now, he's not a man to be fucked with. But he helped a lot of people out of jams in his day. And not all heavyweights are like that. But you're dead on about one thing: He REALLY isn't anyone to be fucked with.


Small fee?

Shows how much things have changed .

Ofcourse Henry Hill stated that Paul Vario would take his wife out with stolen cards.I guess every mobster is a thief first.It seems the Gambinos had some good talent from the kids of some of these gangsters like Locascio,Gotti Jr,Depalma,Ruggiero Jr.I am sure there are more.I believe I read Castellano had a kid that was not a mobster but mobbed up nonetheless

@Pizza

Prisco's doing life right now, right?

@Bronx
Thanks for the offer

angelo is done..

He's only a three hour drive from either side of Florida. But if you decide to visit, driving through that area is like "Deliverance." Literally. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

is he in coleman?

Yeah.

spero died there i believe

I dunno about that. But I know that Danny from Jersey was at Coleman at the same time as Ange. The stupid Feds probably figured they'd catch them talking about something. Because ordinarily, they'd NEVER put two heavies from the Westside in the same joint.

Plus, Ange's whole family (through his first wife) live in Florida full time now. Mostly around where I am. The guy ain't ever getting out, so if they ever transferred him, after his adult children (and ex-wife, too) uprooted their lives to make visiting easier, then I hope the people at the board of prisons all get hemorrhoids like bocce balls.

think spero died in n.c. the judge in rhode island went out his way to get the old boss baby shacks florida prison cause the weather. he should be hiting the halfway house soon. other then sonny fran hes probably on eof the oldest prisoners. think allie boy in the super max that sucks. his brother should be getting sentence any day now. slow couple weeks for the 5 families. I thought there be mafia takedown part 2 by now. first time there probably 3 bosses on the street on 30yrs. pizza I always type about them articles on prisco on nj.com the ledger. I don't know how to post links but its convo betwwen prisco and his driver how ends up being that westside capos dad. the guy they found in the river in 1988. guess he fell out with manna. last mafia takedown day was 4 years ago out of them 120 guys I bet 90 are out. maybe 100. 2 got life. bth gambinos and I think the westside had like 1 or 2 guys arrested. think 50 colombos went down, there all getting out.

Thanks, pmac. Cheech saw that you mentioned it to me back then and he tracked it down and emailed it to me. I appreciate it because Ange is, well, if you ever figure out how to use the pm lol, shoot me one and I'll tell you what was true and what was bullshit.

I don't think Alphonse Persico was so much dumb as much as he simply miscalculated.

He and his father obviously put their faith in their connection to law enforcement to shield Allie from prosecution. But that faith was misplaced.

The book about big Paul and the wire in his house he tells tommy warn snake his son was gonna get pinches for drugs. It was a guy in his crew once he found out he killed himself before snake could get him. Think in a phone both. He didn't like drugs. Think Allie was more old school were Jr was a Beastie boy back up dancer anyone read the book. I order alites on amazon for 20$ better be good. Hope he talks about peter gotti

The guy you are referring to that fell out of favor with Manna was John DiGilio. I dont know or remember if it was Manna he fell out of favor with. I know a younger guy clipped him. DiGilio was loud and overt, that bothered a bunch of guys.

Yaeh kid wore a wire on prisco. He was johns d girlfriends kid he found out john was his pops from his baptism paper or someshit when he was older. Probably factored in on the wire but I'm sure he did something wrong for the feds to mic him up.

Its 0 outside and Dietz pastrami sucks its like 97 fat free wasn't worth 9.99 for a poundd

Pmac Michael gets sentenced next week , He was just up the farm last week...

Yeah PB i said before that Alie boy probably has way more bodies on him than Jr but the differance is all the rats that have come out and said that jr has killed people it was all hoodlum shit and nightclub beefs that got out of hand over nothing and he ended up murdering the young guys he was the type of guy that would beat people up in a club if they accidently bumped into him and would through his fathers name around.Allie boys murder of wild bill was high level family buisness and the other murders he did when he was younger probably consisted of rackets or rules being broken.Jr if it wasnt for his father would of been no differant than those Bath ave guys

Pizza, how many people has allie boy killed? An estimate?

Funny but true kid

http://nypost.com/2015/01/18/former-mobster-calls-junior-gotti-a-pretend-tough-guy/

I think its funny just because someone says they know somebody connected in real life that on the internet it is automatically false because HOW COULD SOMEONE EVER KNOW ANYBODY CONNECTED?...I DIDNT KNOW WISEGUYS COMMUNICATED WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD. Yes, some of us know connected or semi connected people such as relatives, why is that hard to wrap for people to wrap their heads around? Some of us have photos no one else would ever have, which is already a good enough indication.

Thanks

I would not call Gotti dumb. I think he just made very poor decisions to the detriment of many.

Pimp did the cat get your tongue ?

PMack check your P.M.

I checked it was blank then I triend to reply I couldn't figure out how to send it to the person. fuck it. I wrote shit then it says all fields not filled. anyhow persicos playing with fire being like bill belichick to the godell and the nfl except he isn't gonna get life in supermax with the rest of his family. I get he has the best lawyers in nyc. they must really have his ear and could prove he had nothing to do with his cousin and all them street guys killing scopo. it really doesn't make sense he would. he was dealing with all his fathers and brothers legit companies. I seen a pic of the family mansion in Brooklyn that shit is nice. it looked like a recent pic. that family is paid. they give the gottis arun for there money.

didnt the bosses in the commission case admit to CN tho??

????

From MafiaWiki:

"The seven defense attorneys and Persico's legal adviser decided to argue that membership in the Mafia and membership in the Commission were not in and of themselves evidence of criminal activity. The mafiosi were reluctant to agree to this, believing it would violate the code of omerta. However, the lawyers impressed upon their clients that there was no way they could credibly deny the Mafia existed in the face of their own recorded references to it. They ultimately agreed to this tactic as long as they did not have to personally make statements to that effect on the stand. The upshot of this was the first admission in open court that the Mafia existed."

So to answer your question it appears they did admit the existence of LCN.

Im curious as to Bronx's take on this.
Were/Are the commission bosses considered rats for doing so?

persico admitted CN, that's why gotti called him a rat and pushed arena into taking over the family..not sure which of the other bosses admitted it through attorneys. i believe even badalmenti admitted CN..the bonano guys were taking pleas saying they won't make any more guys or something like that circa late 80's.. al walker..plus a few more.. who am i to say they should not.. omertà , not admitting CN is the first thing you swear to when getting made, i guess when you are the boss trying to save your ass in todays CN they justify it..even chin admitted the crazy act to get his son off.. i hate to quote gotti, even if the world knows CN exists .. if i had a steeple sticking out of my ass....never admit. there are and have been so many C.I.s of all ranks ,the stand up guys do not have a shot if they are active. when a guy flips today, nobody should be surprised..no matter what position they hold..i'm sure after some guys flip they figure out who the C.I.s were.C.I.s in my opinion even take bids to cover up .i.e. sparaco..johnson..sidge. et.al. if the mob guys do not kill or deal drugs..they will be around a long time..and if caught in spite of C.I.s they will only get short time..look what has been going on for the last 10 years. marino got 5 years for killing his nephew..shylock cases are getting under a year..they will build up if they stay non violent..just keep making deals and use contacts ..good time to be a mobster

why is it so hard for believe to believe that this guy has a connection to the persico's farm? Yes, there are people out there that exist that know people in organized crime. In the tri-state area it really is not that uncommon. I know someone who is related to the Eboli brothers. Yes, people on the internet do exist in real life too.

Extortion : All good, the pimp knows exactly who I am.
He loves to play the game.

oh lol i forgot i already responded to this thread a few weeks ago about that hehehe