Gambling/Has mob ever welched?

We all know what happens to bettors who don't pay the piper AND I am sure it is common for guys that turn to a loan shark to satisfy his debt.......So ultimately he winds up on the hook for EVEN MORE loses.

BUT

I am wondering if anyone has heard of the reverse happening?

The mob delaying someones winnings or, is unable and unwilling to pay out on someone who hit it BIG?

Are you kidding?

I know there was a lot of fuckery back when Italian lottery was the thing. But generally, seems like a bad business move, especially when the bookie has layoff options and short term money available. Word would seem to get around fast on that kind of stuff.

Only amateurs and beat artists welch on a betters winnings.

I heard a story I think it was in Naples, some guy won big at a mob game (probably a poker game) and they kept putting off and delaying it while the guy asked incessantly about his winnings. Even after telling him to be patient (which meant to forget about it) he wanted his winnings so they finally sent somebody to break his leg or arm and give him a warning to stop asking for it. They made up some bullshit story about how he probably cheated on the game, so he's lucky to be alive. Finally they settled on some small percentage of the winnings (something like 10% I'm guessing) just go get him off their back.

Poor guy, I bet most of the money went to his hospital bills. Since bookies are a little more independent and their reputation matters, I think it might be a little different with the Cosa Nostra over there, although I wouldn't put it beneath them either doing something like this.

I will need to look it up but I think I remember Vinny Basciano and his guys robbing a guy who they knew was picking up his winnings at one of their sportsbook joints

I think it's been a regular thing for years for a target , for a brokester stickup guy.

DP

looking back to L.A in the fifties, and sixties, mickey cohen had a ton of bookie joints, he was notorious for never paying off.

after in went to prison In 1961, there was never anymore welshing around L.A.

That's not true. Vinny would stick up a 7/11 to pay his gambling debts if he had to. He was a lot of things, but a beat wasn't one of them.

You're probably thinking of the story where he allegedly borrowed money off Gerry Sciascia a few weeks before Sciascia got popped. But that was just a lucky break .

Back on topic: I've heard from some of the more informed Philly posters that Joey Merlino was famous for laying down on debts. But that's second hand and I don't know how true it is.

You're right PB. Joe would do that to a lot of people. Place bets and collect if he won and if he lost he would tell you to Fuck yourself. Some of his bookies working for him would do the same thing once he took over. It was a little before my time but this was around the early 90's or so, and it really Fucked things up on the street. Took years to recover, and it still may not have. People used to know where to place a bet and regardless they payed or collected like clockwork. Wasn't quite the same during that timeframe from what I understand.

Yes Sir, Very lucky.

I remember what put me on that, Vinny Gorgeous by Anthony DeStefano.

I had just recently read it, early in the book it describes one of Mr Bascianos arrests.

Vinny was already managing a few betting rooms for Colangelo who went away

November 1985 - David Nunez was making a drop at White Plains Rd. numbers place. He was dropping off a 15k payoff for someone who had a nice hit.

The guy was shot three times and grazed in the head, he survived and id three men, Vinny Basciano, Anthony Donato and Patrick DeFillipo.
Nunez id VB as the shooter.

Now this is what the book says, I dont know if this was one of the establishments Basciano was managing but the author leads you from VB managing several numbers and betting rooms to this story.

If you think this is not accurate or some bullshit, it would not surprise me and I would be more inclined to believe another source.
The stories in these books are meant to sell books, the stories from the people who live around or with these people and live in these neigborhoods are more believable to me.

I don't know if this is the single source, but in his book, Leonetti claims Joey was welching on bets with connected bookmakers and lied about taking the bets when confronted. I also heard Anastasia say something like "Bookmakers would dread seeing Joey come around", so I think there's basis to believe that, but we don't know for sure I guess.

As for the topic generally, I side with those who asserted that this isn't a good business decision... It simply wouldn't pay to fleece someone(s) when the business by itself is a big money-making machine whose main pillar is trust.

this is my last post for a while but you guys have to stop the men of honor thing. its bullshit. 90% are SCUMBAGS that would rob you for a nickel while you tie your shoe lace.

and its another fucking dumb "general" question. what considers "mob"? associates? made guys? gosh theres over ten thousand in history. you think no one beat someone over a gambling debt? you think connected guys dont bet INTO non connected books then dare them to come collect? happens every year. the wolves are out.
and trust me on this connected or not if a gambler is beating the number consistently and gets labeled "sharp" hes going to get kicked. and maybe, just maybe they will pay him.

All true, also pretty often made guys borrow a ton of money (even if they don't need it) from the boss/underboss as a life insurance policy so they will be too valuable to kill.. I think Burton Kaplan did this with Gaspipe Casso.

Perfect post.

A friend of my family hit the exacta or trifecta on the derby and was expected to win 15k but someone up said there was a limit on the payout this was 10 yrs ago when people started using codes and internet. Then another friend of a friend was going huge on college always paid when he lost but finally fucked the bookie for 3 k I always wonder how much the book took it for. He tried to collect but the guy was a but so he Gabe up.

Yep...Something similar happened to me just not as much money...I played a horse race and won $2,600, and at that time i was on a good hot streak with sports betting as well...They told me the most they pay out is $1,500 a race..I said why don't you tell your players that before they play ?? They screwed me for $1,100

Yep d. That's exactly wat happen some really small print on the web page and its been a while but it was close to 1500 to 2k and if he drovd to the casinos or track he would have hit big. He got bent over.

They killed a guy who had a winning numbers ticket in Newark years ago, I think it was the Lucchese family who killed him.

Wasn't Merlino placing bets and not paying up when he lost?

That's correct, after reading the OP again Joey's case does not apply.

So what? If it's true, it still makes him a beat.

Do you really think if Joey said to a bookmaker, fuck you I'm not paying you, that it would be beyond him to tell a player the same thing?

You honor your debts or you don't. If a gambler doesn't pay a bookie, then if he's a bookie himself it's not beyond him to tell his players to fuck off, too.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply anybody was off-track because they said Joey(I did too), I just read the OP again and realized it wasn't those cases he wanted to hear about specifically, I wasn't meaning to take shots at nobody...

Of course you're right about joey, anybody who welches on bets, either by placing or taking the bets deserves his/her comeuppance.