Most powerful non made mobster ever?

Pretty simple I'd like to gather all of your opinions on this topic. I would stick to individuals active after proabition because before and during there were so many powerful Jewish and Irish gangsters a realistic list would not be possible. My picks would be humphries or lanskey

Joe the German Watts

Lewis Kasman




The Windy city has had a few in their time.


Jimmy Hoffa was quiet powerful (until he wasnt).

Watts was an associate in the Gambino crime family who Gotti was very close to. Gotti told him if he can show proof that he was a quarter Italian like the guy said he would give him his button. It was too late because Gotti went to jail in the early 90's not long after telling Watts that.

Hoover

I wouldn't say the most powerful, but Jimmy Burke pulled a lot of weight and kicked up plenty to the Vario crew. If he was Italian he'd have been made quite a while ago. He had his own crew at Robert's lounge and had all sorts of rackets, even though he's mostly known because of the Lufthansa heist (and Goodfellas)

Papa smuf. Should have inducted him yesterday. Angelo Ponce owns a lot of sq yards of NYC. I just watched this big lady kill 2 big ass pancakes in 1 min. Wow.

one choice.. its lansky ..

The OP maybe should have said "besides Meyer Lansky" because everyone is going to pick him first.

Besides Lansky, I would say Al Capone before he was recognized as a mafia family in 1931.

Outside his own neighborhood he wasn't as powerful as you might think. And he had zero pull in trade unions or with anything remotely legitimate. In my opinion, to say "most powerful ever" would imply that he could pick up a phone and shut down a million dollar construction site, or order a wildcat strike. But it's like I always say, power is a relative term. And in Ozone Park Jimmy Burke was no one to be trifled with.

IDK. Burke was the brains behind the Lufthansa heist wasn't he? One of the biggest scores in mob history, no?

And the motley crue he did it with didn't seem to be the brightest bunch.

He's not quite at the top (Lansky) but in terms of post 60's and 70's mob guys surely he has to be up there.

I never said that he wasn't a moneymaker. And I said that in his area of operations that he was no one to be fucked with. So again, power is a relative term. But in terms of powerful on a citywide level? No, he wasn't.

Forget that he went off half-cocked and killed Batts. Burke was owned by the Italians. The real old time Italians looked at Lansky as an equal and called on him for his input. The Italians in Queens looked at Burke as a partner in crime, nothing more. They respected him, but at the same time they owned him.

Shoot, Lansky counts as made in my book. That's how much pull he had and respect, from Italian hoods back then.

And by the way, Moe. I pm'd you last week and you never got back to me.

Burke was an evil sociopath and murderer with a chip on his shoulder.

And he was almost as big a drug addict as Hill, which is really saying something. He's a little before my time and I'm a Bronx guy, but I've heard from very reliable people that he was so fucked up on speed and booze that he'd go weeks without sleeping. And when that sleep deprived paranoia would set in, that's when people would start disappearing.

I believe it, PB! I'm shocked the Italians put up with him for so long without killing his ass, like the Varrio crew members, maybe they didn't know about all the wannabe hoods and real mobsters he clipped.

In a parallel universe where they didn't end up dying in prison, the Gotti crew probably would have killed Burke after Vario died and John was at the peak of his power (late '80s).

true...pizza

Hmmm sounds familiar

I realize that, PB. I was just giving an example of somebody who is not/cannot get made and pulls a lot of weight like the OP asked... but as in the most powerful ever, not even close.
Burke was into almost every "blue collar" racket you can think of and he had quite a reputation at the time.

I'm not surprised he was using uppers all the time and like you said when his drug-fueled paranoid schizophrenia set in, that's when people would start disappearing. Two bits I remember from the Wiseguy book to fit the discussion:
-Burke would spend his nights when he was at home watching TV and smoking cigarettes (like a true paranoid schizo) and when Martin Krugman's wig commercials would come up, he'd get very pissed and that would just be one more reason to keep him up at night.
-After the Lufthansa heist, at least according to Hill, at one time they were in the car together Jimmy slipped up and said that the money was "cursed." When you think about it he was right, not in the literal sense but that it was too much money for the heat to ever go away.

He turned down a button.

do you mean ponte?

Ponte and Franco had too much to lose to get their buttons. I've said this here a million times. But generally speaking, the Westside shies away from making the big garbage guys. There's just too much to lose via the anti-trust laws. You breach those and you're chased from the industry.

And before someone mentions Cockeyed Nick, that was a LONG time ago. And he was made LONG before he became the King of Garbage in Westchester.

Moe Dalitz, Ruby Stein possibly. Marat Bagaula

my choice would be murray Humphries out of Chicago. this man was responsible for mob guys taking the 5th amendment, it was his idea, and it worked great for them.

as far as burke goes, he was really too small time to handle a heist like Lufthansa, don't forget it was handed over to him on a silver platter, it was an inside job, the guys that worked there gave him all the information.

with what the inside guys gave burke, anybody could have pulled it off, I don't think made guys feared burke, he could have been whacked any time.

Lansky, Moe Dalitz, Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex. Sidney Korshak qualifies, I would think.

People forget how powerful Lepke Buchalter was. The guy was basically on the same level as the LCN bosses.

Danny Greene. Brought the Cleveland mob to its knees single-handedly.

The balls on this Irishman. His ballsiness had implications on cosa nostra stateswide.

moe, great book on him " kill the Irishman"

I forgot about that one while I was thinking about what mob books to get for Christmas.

lets say who the most powerfull non made guy alive today is. Michael persico? maybe Brooklyn royal family give him his button already. we heard from all the rats his word is the law, llike chins kid. wonder why chins paramour kid is made but not his son Andrew maybe one has a little more balls but that must be weird.

But Greene had his own crew and wasn't an associate of the Cleveland family.

Chin didn't want his kids made; he preferred them to take legit jobs. If I remember correctly, he set Andrew up with that job on the shore after he got busted for relaying messages because he didn't want any more involvement with his kids in the life.

the chins daughter wrote a book about him.

That's right, Snakes. Vinny Esposito ended up with his button because he was the bastard and I think he felt that it would make him more like a "real" son. He pushed for it and Chin let it happen. There was no need for the kid to feel that way though. By all accounts, Chin treated him just like the rest of his kids.

He's inactive today, and he's still only in his forties, which tells you a lot. He's a good kid who never should have gotten involved. His father's name will carry weight in that family for as long as there's an American Mafia, so they cut him loose on good terms. He's still a big shot at SEBCO, though.

If Vince was half as crazy as that wacky bitch he would have died in the nuthouse instead of the pen.

How about Arnold rothstein,Lepke buchalter and jacob Shapiro?They were all jews but worked with the mob in some way or another.Would like to mebtion Chris Harvey Rose(chris demeo).Read the book.murder mach crazy mf

Oh yeah,nobody mentioned Dutch Shulz,favorite jewish gangster and mad man.He is number one on my list any day of the week.

I agree with them all, esp Lepke, but not Harvey.

Chris Harvey was a wannabe. I would even go so far as to say that if he had been Italian like Senter or Testa, that Gaggi wouldn't have given him up to the Colombians. He was expendable.

Dont know bout that Alfa,but the fact was that while he was alive he was a good earner and in with the italians.He was killed very young at the age of 28.In that short time he was very known and kind of a legend in that neighbourhood,you can ask anyone that lived in Canarsie.Belive me i have.He was big in cars and narcotics.As to why he was killed and was he expendable,thats another story.Anyway,he is worth mentionig,thats for sure.Atleast thats what i think.Sure,he cant be put up ther with lepke or Shulz,etc.

Nobody mentioned The Westies,tough bunch of guys.In some period of time they had a serbian boss Bosko The Yugo Radonjic.He was real tight with Gotti.Got him of on a charge one time.Never did time in us.Gravano was gonna testify agains him,but got caught with EX,So Yugo went free.Retrned to Serbia,died 10 years ago.A legend over here,in Serbia.

I gotta disagree... somebody was going to go down for that. Chris was the perfect sacrificial lamb.. not only that but all that was mostly his fault. Even if he was 100% Italian he was going down, not even Gaggi could have protected him.

Very true Malandrino.Somebody was going down for that.They killed Danny Grillo a year before that,but thats another story.Had nothing to do with drugs.

My vote is here!

Crazy SOB that almost required the help of the Genovese to take him out!

Don't know all that much about Greene and Cleveland but wasn't it an LA associate who took him out.

Ray Ferritto.LA and Cl,made guy.Known hitter..

From everything I've read and heard about Greene he was fearless, and he was obviously VERY powerful in Cleveland and the surrounding area. But the kind of power we're talking about here has to transcend your location. To mention Danny Greene or any of those mutts from the DeMeo crew in the same breath as Moe Dalitz or Meyer Lansky is crazy.

Am not crazy PB,just mentioned him as a non made type member.I wrote that he dosent even have a longshot of being even close to Moe Dalitz or Meyer.Allright buddy?

Of course, Alex. It wasn't even directed at anyone in particular. But when the thread was started, we were talking about guys like Lansky and Dalitz. And all of a sudden we're talking about Chris Rosenberg. That's quite a drop in class, that's all I'm saying.

Of course.It is a drop in class.

Was only an associate, was meant to get his button after the Greene hit but got arrested, then flipped.

He flipped only because the Cleveland mafia put out a hit on him after he did them the very nice deed of eliminating Greene. Amazingly, after a year in Witnesss Protection, he went back to Erie and resumed working his old territory and rackets

I would have to say Dutch Schultz was extremely powerful in NY, but no non-made guy could touch Lansky's power on a national or international scale...in fact, I don't know if any made guy of his era had his juice around the world...maybe Luciano?

I would have to say Morris Levy should be on the list. He was the owner of Roulette Records and had ties with the Genovese family. He was also connected to Sonny Franzese and Corky Vastola.

I didn't know he left witness protection but have you watched the crime inc series that was made in the early 80's? He's talking in the episode they did on Cleveland several times during the programme, he said he regretted ratting, it sounded like he genuinely meant it and was honest about everything he said, unlike most rats.

Did Lansky have any union pull himself?

Lepke.

Yes. In fact, the very first post that I ever made on this forum was on a mafia documentaries thread, and I recommended the 7-part Crime Inc series

yeah i Agree with binnie coll Murray humphries was the most powerful non made guy Ever

Without a doubt, Murray Humphries.

Three of the most powerful Jewish guys were Lansky, Humphries and Maishe Rockman. Rockman was extremely tight with Bill Presser and the brother in law to John Scalish. He was considered the Meyer Lansky of Cleveland.

Humphreys was Welsh.

Everybody down at Tammany Hall

I think being Italian really mattered in the mob at one time. And being Sicilian mattered even more and still matters somewhat. I can show circumstantial proof...

Notice how the best undercover agents always pretend to be Sicilians and not mainlanders? It is as if being Sicilian gave them a fast track to becoming a trusted insider. Portraying a Sicilian cover allowed them to become right hand men to the top people without even having to clip anyone to prove loyalty. Salvadore Vizzini and Joe Pistone were Sicilians pretending to be corrupt Sicilians. Joachim Garcia was a Cuban pretending to be a corrupt Sicilian, but always Sicilian was their cover.

Notice how Al Capone was sort of sent away to prison after the new Commission acknowledged him as a mafia father. He could never join before because he wasn't Sicilian. Then they let him in and he is sort of shelved into a prison supposedly to take the heat off the mafia in general, but I think it was also a move to appease the old time Sicilians that didn't approve of Capone being a Don.

Notice how many of the post 1931 bosses to fall in the classic age of gangsters were non Sicilian and/or non Italian? Dutch Schultz, Lepke, Siegel?

And then there are Gaggi's comments about how (at the time he said it) the Gambino family was a Sicilian establishment. I am certain Gaggi didn't approve of Gotti partially because Gotti was not Sicilian. Certain of it.

There are mob tales of sit downs over beefs that did not end in capital punishment but rather a payment of money as recompense. I am sure that if Chris Demeo was an insider Sicilian that someone could have gone to bat for him and make a show of force and even offer to pay his way out of the beef. At that time the mafia in America was a large army, and the Gambinos were feared. They could speak forcefully to the Colombians and give them an offer they couldn't refuse.

Maybe you guys are right. But I wonder how it would have went if "Chris Demeo" was not a wanna be Italian like he was, but was instead a real Sicilian with nepotistic connections in America and back in the old country. It would be a matter of pride for the Gambinos to kill a Sicilian Italian just because some Colombians demanded it.

Joe Watts of the Gambino's had significant power and was very well respected.

What was he like part German and part Italian?

Jack Garcia pretending to be Sicilian didn't mean shit to Greg DePalma. Trust me on that. He could have said that his family was from Tuscany and it wouldn't have mattered to Greg. We're talking about a guy whose track record for taking a buck off an easy mark was so well documented that the Feds set the operation in motion BEFORE Greg was even released from prison. He was as predictable as the sunrise. I'm sure you can look that up in that fat fuck's book. And I don't mean to pick on you, Alfa. You're a bright guy and I've told you that before. But what I'm saying about Greg is common knowledge to people who live here and spent even a little time around the guy. Yet it's still not something that you're going to find in books or on the Internet.

As for the rest of your post, yes, the Sicilian thing mattered a great deal back then. But just like everything else in that life it has eroded more and more over time (and I'm obviously speaking about the American Mafia). Nowadays if your name ends in a vowel and you bring in a bag of money you're halfway there.

edit

By the time Greg got home from the Scores mess, his son was in a coma, Willie was in witness protection, Fat Pete was wearing a wire, and the older Gambino guys in Bronx were put with either Tore or Braciole (not to mention Wahoo).


Of course it was an embarrassment. And it wasn't the first time, either. But I have to say, in Greg's defense, that he was dying a slow miserable death from cancer and emphysema anyway. He knew that he would have died in prison under a plea anyway. And love him or hate him, Greg DePalma was a stand-up guy. Even in death no one can take that away from him.

PB, Did you ever hear of this Petey Chops that was in Depalmas crew that they tuned up at Bloomingdales? He was supposedly a Bronx numbers guy.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Greg definitely went about it the wrong way. But Pete wasn't in the right either. When you're a made guy and you get called in, you go. End of story.

Chris Rosenberg was whacked in 1979 or 1980 I believe... you honestly mean to tell me that they wouldn't have given him up to the quickly-growing Cuban/Colombian force just because he'd originally be Sicilian... in 1980?

Of course they would have. He was unpredictable and expendable. And if anyone wants further proof that Paul would give up one of his own, then you don't have to look any further than Frank Piccolo. Paul handed him up to the Westside guys on a silver platter not long after the Rosenberg incident. Same time frame. And the Piccolo murder was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of the Gambino guys. But that's another story all together.

I believe so, but confirm with PB

I won't deny that Greg DePalma was a big gigantic sucker for a bribe. I read about him in Making Jack Falcone by Joachim himself. Too funny.

Yeah but you know what I am about to say right? In that example, Paul giving Piccolo up was one Italian turning over an Italian to another group of Italians.

And everyone can laugh at what I am about to say, but I really think Henry Hill's Sicilian heritage from his mother helped him with Paul Vario. Paul Vario was Sicilian.

edit: Who knows. Maybe the mafia lusted after you if you were Sicilian because certain members knew that you could potentially help produce and move "H" from the old country into the USA. Big Money $$$

Did not know he gave Piccolo.You are right,thats the thing that got him killed,among other stuff.



Alfa buddy,you really got your mind set that being a sicilian is such a good and sure thing in the mob,huh?Look at the history there were Sicilian bosses and there were bosses that are not.Frank Costello was calabrian,and he was one of the best bosses that ever lived.

^^^^What Alex just said.

And this isn't a swipe at the Sicilians because I love them. They're a lot like Calabrians in many ways. But the Genovese Family, post Luciano-Genovese, rarely had any use for them. They remain the most powerful and influential family today, yet they actually shy away from making both Italian and Sicilian born members. Look at the member lists if you need proof of that.

Of course there are a few exceptions to that rule---Barney's a big one. But generally speaking, they're just fine with making second and third generation Italian Americans, no matter what part of Italy they're descended from.

Alfa, apples and oranges man. With Vario it was a little more personal... Henry grew up around him, knew him since he was a kid. Henry's mother and the Varios were originally from the same town in Sicily, that's a big deal.
The Sicilian thing was true but I think it stopped being a factor after the 50s, maybe except for the Bonannos. A lot of great bosses were originally Napolitano or Calabrese. Later on, maybe the French and Pizza connection had something to do with it since it was always good to have connections back in Sicily, but it was all relative to the drug business.

Hey I could be wrong. It's no big deal.

One word about Al Capone.

In the movie script turned fictional biography The Last testament of Lucky Luciano, it was claimed that Al Capone was sent away to jail on a BS gun rap to take the heat off the mob.

The dates add up.

The Saint Valentines Day massacre was February 14, 1929.

The fabled Atlantic City Conference where Lucky Luciano rallied allies across the country to rise up against the Mustaches was in May 1929, between the 13th and 16th of that month.

It was supposedly then that all of the bosses agreed that Al needed to go away to take heat off of them.

The St Valentine's Day hit two months earlier brought A LOT of heat.

Then, right on schedule, The Big Fella started his gun charge bid in May of 29.

I really honestly suspect he was sent away partly to appease some of the old Mustaches from Sicily.

Even Joe Bonanno expressed outrage in his own biography that someone like Al Capone would be acknowledged as a "Father". To Joe Bonanno, Cosa Nostra meant us Sicilians, not us Italians. In other words, a secret government by and for Sicilians based in South Italy in opposition to the mainland government.

Yeah, but Last Testament was bogus so anything you get from that book needs to be taken with a big grain of sea salt.

This is actually a good question and I have no idea but the richest guys were definitely the guys PB references from the Westside. One of those guys has net worth over $100M easy, not too mention another booming business.

A hundred million? His property alone is worth more than that .

well I didn't want to use the $500M as no one would believe that except for 1 poster here,

No more angry lobster though, sad, but they still have a great spot in Nj that is very good amongst other successful and legitimate businesses

They were thirty years ahead of the times in Tribeca. When they opened that joint DeNiro was still poor and dating Black chicks on the sneak on Bleecker Street.

DeNiro was from Bleecker street,Where did Pacino grow up,somewhere near the zoo..?

Pacino was from Southern Boulevard. South Bronx.

PB I've been meaning to ask you but I didn't wanna bother you with a PM. It's about Marty, was he really a knockaround NY guy before his fame? Also was he ever on the record with anybody like Pesci was? I watched Mean Streets a while back and Charlie is obviously based on him at least partially. Loved the movie, but I was curious about his past, pre-fame.

Oh i thought wrong,i was thinking of belmont.Were there a lot of Italians in that part of south bronx?

No, Marty wasn't on record with anyone. From what I've heard he was actually kind of a nerd. But believe it it not, his father was a knockaround guy. And they say his uncle (his Dad's brother) might have gotten his button if he wasn't such a bad gambler. A lot of Johnny Boy was based on him.

Pizza there is really a Genovese made guy that has a property worth that much in his name!!???

How is the government not up his a$$!??

He's not a made guy. And whether they like it or not, the Government can't regulate the value of your land. They can try to seize it from you if it's ill gotten, but that's another topic all together.

Yeah that is sort of what I meant since it wasn't made legally but I think I know who you are referring to and they just invested in property back in the day and value has skyrocketed.

Not during my lifetime, Alex. But up until the '50s there were large pockets of Italians living in the South Bronx, especially around 149th Street. Then Lincoln Hospital came in and literally made many of them an offer they couldn't refuse. The buyouts from that hospital got many Italians out of poverty.

Off topic, Lincoln Hospital is widely considered to be a dump these days because of its location. But the truth is, they have one of the best trauma centers in the country. But sadly, that's only because they treat so many gunshot wounds. I wish that was a joke, but it's not.

It's common knowledge and a matter of public record anyway. But they own more property south of Houston street than any other privately owned real estate company in Manhattan. It's honestly mind boggling.

It makes me so mad!

Chris Rosenburg? Really?

The only answer to this question is Meyer Lanksy.

Lansky was the first to come to mind

can't forget Ben Siegel, though

Hey DB what's the name of their spot in NJ?
I had my wedding reception at Ponte's and was really sad to hear it closed.

Who is this guy PB?

The Pontes. No big deal. They're legitimate millionaires, their garbage fortune aside.

Nice one, check your PM mate.

I don't have a pm from you, Tommy. Send it again and I'll get back to you a little later. I have to run out for a few minutes right now. Christmas and all that.

Lansky is the obvious answer but I'll throw Steve Flemmi out there for the sake of conversation. Had all the status of a made guy more or less but kept everything he made to himself. Wonder if he paid tribute and to who.

George Bush JR..

Pick one...

Chicago guys

Jake Guzik

Murray HUmphries

Eddie Vogel

Gus Alex

Hyman Larner

New York guys

Arnold Rothstein

Dutch Shultz

Lepke Buchalter

Meyer Lansky

Owney Madden

Cleveland

Moe Dalitz

Pennsylvania

Frank Sheeran

Lansky...hands down, no one even close. He had international juice.

Hy Larner

Hi Barrett .

Right on. This dude was the "last of the mohicans".

During the mid 50's and early 60's he monopolized the coin machine business in and out of the country. For example Larner supplied countries from Central and South America with his gambling and other coin machines. He was also involved in smuggling weapons,narcotics and was also involved in white slavery.He was living the high life.He owned many yachts,cars and mansions.He also owned an oil company as legitimate business and invested in many airplane companies.

From the mid 70's untill the mid 80's he stayed in Panama and pumped the U.S. with video poker machines,which at the time was one of the biggest rackets for the Outfit.

In the early 90's he even faked his death by corrupting the Panamanian newspapers to publish his alleged death. He died quietly and as a rich man.He was arrested only once in his entire career.

Yeah i Agree After the hump was gone Hy larner was the most powerful non made member he was under world and upper world kind of guy for sure very Cloak & Daggers

Based on info furnished by Toodoped I would think Hy Larner. The guy was some kind of "wheeler-dealer."

I do know a little about Lansky, and he was certainly a smart man.

All these guys were smart and made significant contributions to various criminal organizations. And they all should have been incarcerated.

Can't help but think what they might have done in legitimate businesses.

Hey PB! Replied to your PM...did it send?

Here's one.

Powerful associates in each family.

think today alive is Michael persico. guy makes money and still only 56 57

for sheer complicity, it had to be j, edgar hoover. really now, the mob could not have existed without that fairy, turning a blind eye to them, they had to have loved that guy, he made them.

Good pick Binnie.

alfa. thank you.

Even if they was in legitmate businesses they still would have to whack a guy or two or take over a Country by proxy .

Barelli's on rt 3 by giants stadium . They have or had an interest

Very good restaurant , pricey , go to spot for guys , parking lot full of

Very expensive cars.

They own over 30 properties in the TriBeCa area as PB said

And to put that in perspective they recently sold the land

That ponte restaurant resided on for over $115M

Their net worth over $500M is probably conservative at this point

Plus they own a huge recycling company in NJ

These are both public and legit so I'm not giving any inside info

But they are one of the richest connected associates ever

The old man could of been made whenever he wanted and he had an

Untouchable status on par with any admin member but it just wasn't

Good business for his status to he formal . Not being made was just a

Formality . He was likely one of their biggest earners

wow. 5oo mil. hard to argue with that one.

Owney Madden was around when all the top guys that people on this forum are always talking about so it gos with out saying he is rigjht up there.

Jimmy Hoffa

Hugh apples McIntosh

Meyer Lansky

Moe Dalitz.

Thats an interesting guy with a history.

Anyone read "the life and crimes of Moe Dalitz"?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/078643516X/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/177-4848752-3356616

Milton "Maishe" Rockman, longtime advisor to John Scalish and his brother in law. He was a guy who could shut down a multi million dollar project by making one call to Bill Presser. He was respected nationwide, but especially with the Genovese Family in NY. It's hard to say if he was the most powerful "ever," but he certainly carried alot of weight in the midwest and throughout the nation due to his relationship with the Old Mayfield Road Mob in Cleveland and his close, personal relationship with Bill Presser.

it'd be out of meyer lansky and the chicago top level bosses such as tony accardo,paul ricca, jake guzik and some others idk. BUT if i had to pick one it'd of been lansky during his time him and luciano were so close his power was unmatched by the rest BUT once luciano got locked up his power started dwindling and finally had no power once frank costello along with albert anastia starting to move on lansky. as for the chicago outfit always had a hold on things and was part of the mob not the mafia so they had just as much power/sway in the underworld as the five families.

It has probably already been mentioned but Burton Kaplan.

The guy had a huge impact on Lucchese family business for a 5 or 6 year period and most of the higher echelon guys in the family didn't know who he was.

Doc Sagansky from Boston has gotta be up there.. Real old timer. Was involved in some sort of gambling from Prohibition through to the 1990's.. Had one of the biggest gambling operations in the area for yeeeears. Pretty sure Angiulo didn't tax him much or maybe not at all I can't remember, but after Jerry got put away Vinny Ferrara and his guys shook down Sagansky for something like a quarter million, and Doc paid it cash like a day later.. Also pretty sure he didn't admit anything about the shakedown when everyone got pinched for it since there was a bug in Ferrara's office at the time of the shakedown thanks to Steve Flemmi.

Just from my observation and I could be off but I'd say Jewish gangsters are a strong number 2 behind Italians when it comes to historical significance, power and money making ability. Maybe because like Italians the biggest names in Jewish crime came from a much romanticized era. I'd bet Colombian, Mexican and probably current Italian DTOs make more money than the Jews or Italian Americans did its just they came from a time that many people for one reason or another are nostalgic about.

Also probably because these two groups in particular seemed to work fairly well together. When did Jewish gangsters or OC Jewish figures stop having such a large presence in the underworld particularly NY,Chicago,Philadelphia? 1950,1960,1970?

Vito Arena