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Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented

Posted By: BorderProtector

Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 09:28 PM

So why are black gangs so fragmented and territorial? I live in a city where 30% of the population lives in poverty yet we are one of the safest US cities\towns. Yet if it was a predominant black city it would be amongst the 10 worst cities to live in the US.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 09:48 PM

Because Mexican Americans living in Texas border towns don't share the victim mentality of some of the urban Blacks that you're referring to.

Young Blacks today---especially the men---are taught that it's okay to live down to a certain stereotype because it's not their fault. And they often get this message from lily white liberals living in suburbia, but commuting to their inner city jobs as social workers and guidance counselors.

Zero accountability for who they are. Because it's all whitey's fault anyway. And let me be clear, not all Blacks are like this. But the demographic that you're referring to certainly fits the bill.
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:11 PM

Black people have that victim mentality less than you may think. I think it's more prevalent in the suburban white kids towards black people. The ones with dad's credit card, who never saw a bad neighborhood in their lives. Sure there's sharpton types, but black people call each other out all the time. It's the trust fund babies who rush to defend them like they can't speak for themselves. It's condescending really. Those are the ones who jump on race baiting topics and make excuses for anyone doing any shitty thing, as long as they're not a white male. They look ridiculous to black people too. It's just that small percentage of blacks who get all the airtime on TV. There's no money in focusing on normal people
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: blacksheep
Black people have that victim mentality less than you may think. I think it's more prevalent in the suburban white kids towards black people. The ones with dad's credit card, who never saw a bad neighborhood in their lives. Sure there's sharpton types, but black people call each other out all the time. It's the trust fund babies who rush to defend them like they can't speak for themselves. It's condescending really. Those are the ones who jump on race baiting topics and make excuses for anyone doing any shitty thing, as long as they're not a white male. They look ridiculous to black people too. It's just that small percentage of blacks who get all the airtime on TV. There's no money in focusing on normal people

I said basically the same thing, didn't I? It's the suburban white liberals who put this shit in their heads.
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:45 PM

This is such a sweeping, ridiculous stereotype that I find it absurd.
Posted By: BorderProtector

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
This is such a sweeping, ridiculous stereotype that I find it absurd.
So why are Americas top deadliest cities predominantly black?
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:48 PM

Interesting question to discuss but first I want to ask was you from El Paso? (I forgot which city) I'm going to speak on the black gangs first then city crimes later.

Black gangs are territorial due to the drug trade and community identity. Drug markets vary from city to city yet the operational methods are about the same. It's operated like a corner store or fast food franchise which relies on location and customers. Therefore, if a gang is making tens of thousands of dollars weekly or more than their business is lucrative. Just like any legit business it's about location. Now if competition set up shop near the area than customers will be pulled away, which brings either killings or mergers into place. Community identity or pride goes along with it because that's where they originated or lived and that's with everybody. NYers have their boroughs beef (Brooklyn vs Queens), Chitown different sides/communities ( West side vs South side), Next door cities high school sports teams, etc.

Fragmentation varies tremendously from group to group. The causes are different leaderships, personal affairs,greed, informants, and law arrests/indicents. Monolithic groups/organizations have been the incorrect view of many groups such as Crips, Bloods, Surenos, Nortenos, 18st, Folks/People Nation, UBN, and even La Cosa Nostra. It's just the umbrella identity and every group is independent. GDs have suffered fragmentation the heaviest in Chicago due to indictments & internal leadership. Crips have been the football kicked in many conversations as examples of fragmented groups but that's completely false since some gangs existed before the formation and after it was meant to be a partnership among different gangs to resolve conflicts not a monolithic syndicate.

Most of the time it's true that the top ten cities have a major black percentage ( my state capitol Jackson is 70-79% black) but all those cities share a similar historic economic decline and drug trade boom. Same situation repeated nearly nationwide. But have notice that almost the same cities had the infamous reputation BEFORE they was majority black ? Not trying to start a ruckus just saying study the history of different cities crime past and look at demography then and you'll see that the cities reputation have already been established. Besides there are too many black majority communities to name that have average to low crime, they're just not newsworthy rolleyes
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
This is such a sweeping, ridiculous stereotype that I find it absurd.

Of course you do. But keep in mind that I was quick to point out that not all Black men behave like that. It's honestly a small percentage. But quite often, white liberals ARE guilty of enabling the small percentage of Blacks who decide to live down to the stereotype.
Posted By: BorderProtector

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 11:22 PM

Nope im from Laredo Texas. I think we are amogst Americas 30 safest cities lol. Edit: El Paso is the second safest US city. Im from Laredo up there with El Paso lol.

Posted By: blacksheep

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: blacksheep
Black people have that victim mentality less than you may think. I think it's more prevalent in the suburban white kids towards black people. The ones with dad's credit card, who never saw a bad neighborhood in their lives. Sure there's sharpton types, but black people call each other out all the time. It's the trust fund babies who rush to defend them like they can't speak for themselves. It's condescending really. Those are the ones who jump on race baiting topics and make excuses for anyone doing any shitty thing, as long as they're not a white male. They look ridiculous to black people too. It's just that small percentage of blacks who get all the airtime on TV. There's no money in focusing on normal people

I said basically the same thing, didn't I? It's the suburban white liberals who put this shit in their heads.

I was just throwing in my post before this thread became a zoo. Seems like a race baiting topic anyway. I've seen you post about similar shit before tho. I know we got similar thoughts. The sissy white liberals are worse than anyone
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/13/14 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: BorderProtector
Nope im from Laredo Texas. I think we are amogst Americas 30 safest cities lol. Edit: El Paso is the second safest US city. Im from Laredo up there with El Paso lol.



I think some of the border cities are safe because of the cartels. It's like the mafia. Too much violence would bring the US federales to those towns and would hurt the cocoa business
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily


Most of the time it's true that the top ten cities have a major black percentage ( my state capitol Jackson is 70-79% black) but all those cities share a similar historic economic decline and drug trade boom. Same situation repeated nearly nationwide. But have notice that almost the same cities had the infamous reputation BEFORE they was majority black ? Not trying to start a ruckus just saying study the history of different cities crime past and look at demography then and you'll see that the cities reputation have already been established. Besides there are too many black majority communities to name that have average to low crime, they're just not newsworthy rolleyes



Why are the economies in those cities on the decline? Is it because of the high crime or the other way around?
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:05 AM

Originally Posted By: mulberry
Why are the economies in those cities on the decline? Is it because of the high crime or the other way around?

Chicken or the egg. Good luck with figuring either out lol.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 01:19 AM

Which is the question. Jackson have experienced a decline in population over the last 5 years or so in which those left for the suburbs ( Madison,Ridgeland,Byram,). Jackson shouldn't be written off due to crime ( mostly in the West & South side communities) because their well to do areas (Northeast, Fondren, some others names can't remember now) with an assortment of entertainment. Just recently the downtown area is receiving $8 Million in revitalization and some positive recognition from other agencies. Also there's a large black middle class too.

I'll speak for my city Columbus (60% black), it went through a decline and is bouncing back economic wise and is currently the 11th best economic micropolitan area in the country out 500 others.

Positive research should be invested in these worst cities. Im just saying.
Posted By: ManGauge

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 04:05 AM

Originally Posted By: BorderProtector
Nope im from Laredo Texas. I think we are amogst Americas 30 safest cities lol. Edit: El Paso is the second safest US city. Im from Laredo up there with El Paso lol.



This is a list of of America's 100 most safest cities , and I dont see Laredo or Elpaso represented :

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100safest/

Nice try though , but no way in hell are those border cities going to rank as the safest. As a matter of fact , the rare instances I do hear about El Paso and Laredo in the news , its usually when they are talking about the drug cartel violence spilling over into the U.S.
Posted By: ManGauge

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 04:06 AM

Originally Posted By: mulberry
Originally Posted By: BorderProtector
Nope im from Laredo Texas. I think we are amogst Americas 30 safest cities lol. Edit: El Paso is the second safest US city. Im from Laredo up there with El Paso lol.



I think some of the border cities are safe because of the cartels. It's like the mafia. Too much violence would bring the US federales to those towns and would hurt the cocoa business


The border cities typically ARENT safe. That guy is an idiot lol
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 04:53 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
This is such a sweeping, ridiculous stereotype that I find it absurd.

Of course you do. But keep in mind that I was quick to point out that not all Black men behave like that. It's honestly a small percentage. But quite often, white liberals ARE guilty of enabling the small percentage of Blacks who decide to live down to the stereotype.


PB, obviously I respect your opinion. And you've experienced more than I have. But let me give you the "white liberal" pperspectve.

It started with slavery, but after that, if you look at the historical record, blacks were essentially enslaved vis a visass incarcetation. And that has contnhed to this day. So I don't excuse poor behavior, but on a board about expansive white criminal organizations, I find the rampant racism hypocritical.
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 04:58 AM

Posting from a phone like pmac so forgive me for typos. and no offense pmac you're one of the best here
Posted By: TheAustralian

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 08:10 AM

In Australia we are safe... just watch your baby when you're in dingo territory.
Posted By: Belmont

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 11:22 AM

Blacks are about 12% of the population but yet they commit 1000 more murders than whites. What does that tell you??? And dont tell me its because whites have bad aim.
I can yell you why.. Over 72% of blacks are born out of wedlock and dont have a father living in the household to maintain stability a d discipline.
Another myth; blacks need jobs.. Bullshit, blacks need fathers and black woman need to stop spreading their friggin legs every five minutes and having 3 kids before they are old enough to drink.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: mightyhealthy
So I don't excuse poor behavior, but on a board about expansive white criminal organizations, I find the rampant racism hypocritical.

And when have I I EVER excused the criminal behavior of Italian American criminals? Have you not been reading my posts since you got here?

I say it here ALL THE TIME. You play you pay. I don't lose a minute's sleep when they send murderers up for life, Italian Americans or otherwise. I'm just being consistent. So how the fuck am I a hypocrite?

It's about accountability. And the small percentage of Blacks that I was referring to don't have it. And when White liberals keep telling them that it's not their fault, there's little hope that they'll ever change.

This isn't about taking a White kid from suburbia and dropping him off in Bed-Stuy for a week (although it would probably help). It's about accountability and experiencing life a little before you go judging a guy who's old enough to be your father. A guy who's been pretty nice to you here, by the way.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:27 PM

At least the mafia can afford the best lawyers. Black kids from the projects would kill for that legal representation. Latinos too. It's in the lap of the Gods for them. If they have a shit lawyer they're screwed. I think they overplay the institutional racism too but it's there nonetheless.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:31 PM

I wonder how Native American crime rates compare to crime rates for blacks and latinos.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
At least the mafia can afford the best lawyers. Black kids from the projects would kill for that legal representation. Latinos too.

Maybe after a guy gets his button, Moe. But in the beginning he's on his own. That's another myth that I'm always trying to expose here: That the Mob always pays your legal fees. That's a crock of shit. You're on your own a lot of the time.

And Blacks and Latinos get waaaaaaay more pro bono lawyers from high end firms than Whites. There just isn't enough publicity in defending poor White criminals.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I wonder how Native American crime rates compare to crime rates for blacks and latinos.

I never know when you're kidding, Moe. But that's hard to say because they still police their own on the Reservations. Having said that, I don't think their crime rates are all that high. And no one---but NO ONE---got fucked liked the American Indians.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:40 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9VMY8X9rU8
Posted By: pimpanella

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:40 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I wonder how Native American crime rates compare to crime rates for blacks and latinos.

I never know when you're kidding, Moe. But that's hard to say because they still police their own on the Reservations. Having said that, I don't think their crime rates are all that high. And no one---but NO ONE---got fucked liked the American Indians.


" Goddamn Indians got all the gambling" - Joseph Ligambi
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:42 PM

I'm not sure about crime rates. But American Indians are extremely poor and have some of the highest rates of drug and alcohol abuse in the country. They are also the second likeliest to be killed by a police officer (after black males).
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:43 PM

Something about Louis C.K. really annoys me. His show is very overrated too. Pretentious and hipsterish as fuck. One or two good episodes but it has nothing on Curb.
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 12:46 PM

Also, regarding white suburbia...

The part of white suburbia I'm from is extremely racist. And I see it all the time now amongst people I grew up with. Fairfield county is segregated and most people wouldn't set foot in Bridgeport.

I worked in the school system there and have been to almost every school in Bridgeport. Those kids have no clue how people just 5 miles away live. It is really sad.
Posted By: TheKillingJoke

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I wonder how Native American crime rates compare to crime rates for blacks and latinos.


In Canada the Native American crime rates seem to be high. Like the blacks and hispanics have in the USA, the natives have their own street and organized crime gangs in Canada and also in states on the US-Canadian border such as Minnesota. They don't differ all that much from the black and hispanic gangs in the USA: crack, cocaine, marijuana, meth, prostitution, extortion...with some loan sharking and illegal gambling thrown in for good measure. The usual. Some of it is rather petty, while some other gang activities can become surprisingly organized.
Posted By: stern49

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 01:12 PM

I agree with Mighty!
Posted By: Scorsese

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
Interesting question to discuss but first I want to ask was you from El Paso? (I forgot which city) I'm going to speak on the black gangs first then city crimes later.

Black gangs are territorial due to the drug trade and community identity. Drug markets vary from city to city yet the operational methods are about the same. It's operated like a corner store or fast food franchise which relies on location and customers. Therefore, if a gang is making tens of thousands of dollars weekly or more than their business is lucrative. Just like any legit business it's about location. Now if competition set up shop near the area than customers will be pulled away, which brings either killings or mergers into place. Community identity or pride goes along with it because that's where they originated or lived and that's with everybody. NYers have their boroughs beef (Brooklyn vs Queens), Chitown different sides/communities ( West side vs South side), Next door cities high school sports teams, etc.

Fragmentation varies tremendously from group to group. The causes are different leaderships, personal affairs,greed, informants, and law arrests/indicents. Monolithic groups/organizations have been the incorrect view of many groups such as Crips, Bloods, Surenos, Nortenos, 18st, Folks/People Nation, UBN, and even La Cosa Nostra. It's just the umbrella identity and every group is independent. GDs have suffered fragmentation the heaviest in Chicago due to indictments & internal leadership. Crips have been the football kicked in many conversations as examples of fragmented groups but that's completely false since some gangs existed before the formation and after it was meant to be a partnership among different gangs to resolve conflicts not a monolithic syndicate.





Black gangs in chicago and baltimore etc run a lot of the major open air drug markets that rake in millions. You do get different gangs and sets working together especially when one gang has a good source of supply however you then might get the opposite like black family stated. Some gangs are big enough where fragmentation is inevitable because people are gonna pursue their own opportunities and agendas.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 02:33 PM

Why haven't Black gangs tried to get into bookmaking and shylocking over the years? (and I'm sure there have been instances but I mean on a large scale).

Is it too much work? Are they more comfortable dealing drugs? Is the math too hard?

I only ask because I'm relatively sure that they don't fear the Italians anymore. There's strength in numbers, after all.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Is it too much work? Are they more comfortable dealing drugs? Is the math too hard?


Youve answered your own question.

Because Drugs are eaaaasy.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 03:15 PM

lol
It's not too much work nor math case if so then there's no way they should be managing drug networks.

I would assume they are involved in those two activities but just individuals and not group activities. I think because it's not that fast money activity that lures them like drug trafficking, prostitution, nor fraud per say. By now you would expect some indictments but I bet if you look at arrest report then some of them may be gang affiliated.

@Belmount,
You make the same broken record comments and yet don't want discuss about in the general thread ( It had your name written all over), Smh.

Everybody should stay on topic and leave other non related comments outside please.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 03:22 PM

Thanks, BF. And just for the record, I grew up with plenty of Italian criminals who had a hard time with math, too lol.
Posted By: mackinblack007

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 03:32 PM

There so fragmented because after they go to prison, they dont fall in line, and tow to a powerful ruling group, like the mexicans do, or the whites, atleast thats the way it is in California, I was locked up in Alameda county jail for 5.5 months, and people where fighting like a mother fucker, lol, when i first walked in my pod, the numbers where 1 wood(me), and 30 brothers.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 03:46 PM

It's the numbers game for l.a black gangs too. Think about this: East Coast Crips have about 2,600 members in L.A city then who knows how many in SoCal jails/pens, so if a ECC member goes to the pen than why answer to another group when yours have numbers?
Posted By: mackinblack007

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
It's the numbers game for l.a black gangs too. Think about this: East Coast Crips have about 2,600 members in L.A city then who knows how many in SoCal jails/pens, so if a ECC member goes to the pen than why answer to another group when yours have numbers?
Crazy you mention the east coasts, I was locked up in Santa Clara county jail, and there was some east coasts there, locked up from la, for bank robbery, hundreds of miles from home, but what your saying still doesnt make sense, look at 18th street, or ms13, they got WAY bigger numbers, but they still fall in under LA EME, when they hit the cdc.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/14/14 04:03 PM

That's because location, Mackinblack007.

La Eme started from mexican gangs in L.A then spread its membership and network throughout SoCal. BGF started in the Bay Area , Crips/Bloods/Hoovers in the L.A metro. There's a difference in criminal culture of NorCal & SoCal. Most from my understanding is that major cities (not all of course) don't care for crips/bloods and instead you have local crews/gangs.
Posted By: alicecooper

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
That's because location, Mackinblack007.

La Eme started from mexican gangs in L.A then spread its membership and network throughout SoCal. BGF started in the Bay Area , Crips/Bloods/Hoovers in the L.A metro. There's a difference in criminal culture of NorCal & SoCal. Most from my understanding is that major cities (not all of course) don't care for crips/bloods and instead you have local crews/gangs.


I have no clue on this but you may; what would be the best example of blacks organizing in the criminal world---in the last 50 years or so? I mean what scale and scope? What would be the crowning achievement in terms of taking on Whitey...or whatever. Not talking shit I'm serious.

I don't follow black gang culture.
Posted By: Scorsese

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 08:02 AM


Read this article about chicago street gangs and politicians.

Quote:

Gangs and politicians

No account of city politics and gangs would be complete without mentioning the federal case against the former 20th Ward alderman Arenda Troutman. When Troutman pleaded guilty in 2008 to tax fraud and taking payoffs from developers, the case made for lurid headlines. It wasn’t necessarily because of her crimes—bribe-taking and tax-cheating aldermen have been a dime a dozen in the City Council. Rather, it was because of Troutman’s romantic relationship with Donnell Jehan, a leader of the Black Disciples, one of the city’s most ruthless and feared gangs, which ran a $300,000-a-day drug operation on the South Side.


Troutman’s case serves as a vivid example of how gangs and public officials can be a toxic mix. The six-year federal investigation unearthed evidence that Troutman had helped Jehan and the reputed king of the Black Disciples, Marvel Thompson, acquire properties and allowed them to rehab buildings without permits. She had also helped them get jobs for young gang members, either through city-run programs or by threatening builders to hire gang crews on job sites. Authorities further suspected that Troutman, or others in her office, may have alerted the gang to police operations. Thompson and Jehan, meanwhile, mobilized their members to do political work for Troutman. Records show that they had also given her thousands in cash, from drug profits and the gang’s street tax.

Through it all, Troutman insisted that she thought she was dealing with legitimate businessmen. “They talked like businessmen,” she told reporters. “They were dressed like businessmen. They had business to discuss.” (Chicago’s request for comment from Troutman, who is still incarcerated, went unanswered.)

Troutman was not the only politician to get into bed with the Black Disciples. Calvin Omar Johnson, a former gang leader and a friend of Thompson’s, who testified on Thompson’s behalf at his sentencing hearing, says every politician on the South and Near West Sides—from the aldermen up to the congressmen—tried to woo Thompson. “Everybody in that area, everybody in that neighborhood, every elected official in that community asked Marvel for help,” says Johnson. “And Marvel helped them.”

Further, three law enforcement sources involved in the federal probe of the gang confirm that two other local politicians besides Troutman—a sitting alderman and an unsuccessful aldermanic candidate—became ensnared in the government’s investigation. The two were interviewed by federal investigators but were never charged.


Look up other groups like the black mafia in philadelphia and black p stones both defrauded the government for millions in grant money during the 1960s. The latter was even indicted in a terrorist plot with the libyan government.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 12:38 PM

Interesting, Scorsese.
Posted By: merlino

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 02:19 PM

This is a little off topic but goes into the overall theme of this topic, is that many of these fragmented gang cities have to due with what PB stated with the lily white liberals going all the way back to LBJ and his great society and their attempts to "even the playing field so to speak" and you couple that with those towns are all or were heavlily union dominated and raising the wages of the workers at ridiculous rates for their factory jobs for many major US companies. Those companies saw the writing on the wall and moved their plants to other countries rather than pay the union wages. White flight from Newark, Detroit, Cleveland, etc, decimated those towns to where they are today. Liberal run cities, heavily taxed, mismanagement of funds and corruption destroyed all these cities and destroyed jobs and hope and opportunity and continue to this day. Easier to sling rock than it is to learn a legal trade, go to college, join the military. Detroit is bankrupt, atlnatic city is a shithole, cleveland doesnt rock, chicago is a war zone, north and west philly are under seige. Giuliani saw what was going on and for better or worse fixed NYC before it became its own war zone in manhattan and the other boroughs. Start holding people accountable get rid of cycles of welfare and government housing and you clean up half the mess. Continue with these great society liberal utopiansm and you have the destruction of many more cities.
Posted By: mightyhealthy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: merlino
This is a little off topic but goes into the overall theme of this topic, is that many of these fragmented gang cities have to due with what PB stated with the lily white liberals going all the way back to LBJ and his great society and their attempts to "even the playing field so to speak" and you couple that with those towns are all or were heavlily union dominated and raising the wages of the workers at ridiculous rates for their factory jobs for many major US companies. Those companies saw the writing on the wall and moved their plants to other countries rather than pay the union wages. White flight from Newark, Detroit, Cleveland, etc, decimated those towns to where they are today. Liberal run cities, heavily taxed, mismanagement of funds and corruption destroyed all these cities and destroyed jobs and hope and opportunity and continue to this day. Easier to sling rock than it is to learn a legal trade, go to college, join the military. Detroit is bankrupt, atlnatic city is a shithole, cleveland doesnt rock, chicago is a war zone, north and west philly are under seige. Giuliani saw what was going on and for better or worse fixed NYC before it became its own war zone in manhattan and the other boroughs. Start holding people accountable get rid of cycles of welfare and government housing and you clean up half the mess. Continue with these great society liberal utopiansm and you have the destruction of many more cities.


Haha... Wow. Christ.
Posted By: Scorsese

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/16/14 04:09 PM



The Curry Brothers drug trafficking organisation in detroit had political connections.

Quote:


http://gangsterreport.com/the-detroit-drug-wars-part-2/2/

Operations within the Curry organization were significantly aided by Johnny’s influential contacts outside the drug industry. Little Man had allies in almost every nook and cranny of the city’s political structure, deep inroads that reached all the very top of the Mayor’s office. Most of these connections were consummated the day Johnny married Cathy Volsan, a favored niece of longtime Mayor Coleman A. Young that he treated as a daughter.

“Cathy was a ghetto princess,” said one former FBI agent. “She was beautiful, educated and carried herself in a very high-powered manner. But for some reason, she was attracted to drug dealers. I don’t know if it was a rebellion thing, growing up around the Mayor’s mansion or whatnot, but she strictly dated dopers. And big time guys, with lots of juice already without her in the picture. Landing Cathy Curry was like bagging the kingfish. It was a prize. Being with Cathy meant you were tied into the mainframe of the mother ship. She provided the kind of access criminals killed to have. When Little Man married Cathy, he went from just another big time dealer to being practically untouchable. I say practically because he wound up getting busted, but only after he stayed around probably a good five years longer than he should have.”

Coleman A. Young was Detroit’s first ever black Mayor and served five terms in office. While in the first half of Young’s two decades in the Mayor’s office, the diminutive, yet extremely charismatic grassroots politician was celebrated. In contrast, the final half of his time on top was plagued by increasing violence on the city’s streets and constant speculation of wrongdoing.

Heavily investigated by the FBI, IRS and DEA for a variety of alleged illegal activity Young was never charged with a single crime, leaving office in 1993 with a complex legacy plagued with speculation about his ties to, among other things, the local underworld Specifically, rumors abounded for years related Young’s connection to the area’s drug industry. It started in the 1970s with investigations by multiple government agencies regarding narcotics activity possibly being conducted out of his family’s restaurant, Young’s BBQ, and concluded as he left office with rampant accusations of corruption and convictions of several members of his inner-circle for running a police-sponsored protection racket for drug dealers both in-state and out.

Many of Young’s problems latter in his Mayoral tenure could be traced directly back to the soft spot he held in his heart for his niece, Cathy, a drug-addicted street corner diva with a penchant for associating with some of the city’s most dangerous and high-profile felons. The daughter of Young’s sister Juanita and his close friend Willie Volsan, a longtime alleged associate of a number of area drug kingpins, Cathy was the apple of her uncle’s eye and he spoiled her. He also watched her back intently.

During court proceedings in the 1990s, it would come out that Young personally authorized around the clock private security for Cathy provided by a special service unit of the Detroit Police Department. Orders to the unit were expressly not to disrupt the activities of the Cathy’s criminal associates, but to merely make certain if any violence erupted in her presence that it be thwarted and she be shuttled to safety immediately. The top secret security detail was on duty from 1985, when the Mayor’s niece married Johnny Curry, through 1988 when she was conducting an affair and sharing living quarters with her husband’s right hand man, White Boy Rick Wershe.

Through the years, Cathy was a fixture at the Mayor’s residence, the Manoogian Mansion and through her uncle was introduced to some very powerful people. One of these people was then Detroit Police Commander Gil Hill, whom she became very close to. Some federal investigators claim too close.

Besides holding several top positions within the DPD, Hill gained minor Hollywood celebrity in 1984 when he appeared in the smash film Beverly Hills Cop as star Eddie Murphy’s superior officer on the Detroit Police force. In 1989, he would be elected as Detroit City Council President and eventually stage an unsuccessful Mayoral campaign in 1996. Between his brush with movie fame and his foray into local politics, however, Hill was investigated by the FBI for reputed connections to none other than Cathy’s husband, Johnny Curry.

Cathy testified under oath in 1992 that Hill tipped her and Curry off in 1986 about their home telephone being bugged by federal surveillance experts. Later that year, a Detroit News article reported an on-going investigation into Hill’s possible role in leaking information and taking a payoff from Curry to impede progress in the case of a gangland homicide that was allegedly pointing in the direction of Curry and his crew.

The homicide was that of 13-year old Damion Lucas, an innocent bystander struck by a bullet in a drive-by shooting aimed at his uncle, a rival Curry drug dealer, on April 29 1985. Lucas’ uncle had allegedly screwed the Curry brothers on hotel reservations in Las Vegas for the Marvin Hagler-Tommy Hearns fight the gang had attended fight weeks earlier. According to Curry him and Cathy met with Hill in his office the day after the Lucas murder and were informed that a member of Curry’s crew was the top suspect in the crime. Hill then allegedly told them, “You have nothing to worry about,” and according to Curry, accepted a bribe of $10,000 in cash to keep him and his inner-circle out of the investigation. Although he admits to speaking with Cathy on the phone the day after the Lucas homicide, he denies disrupting the investigation related to the murder and taking any money to help shield Curry from harm.


Carlos Powell another detroit drug kingpin that was recently convicted had a former legislator laundering money for him and also had ties to then mayor kwame kilpatricks corruption scandal. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/05/25/Was-drug-dealer-source-of-Detroit-bribe/54771337976170/
Posted By: tiger84

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/17/14 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
lol
I think because it's not that fast money activity that lures them like drug trafficking, prostitution, nor fraud per say. By now you would expect some indictments but I bet if you look at arrest report then some of them may be gang affiliated.



This is right.There was a guy on I almost got away with it and he was an bank and armoured car robber anyway then he started selling drugs and he didnt like it because he said it was too much work and investment where as when he robbed banks he made the money within seconds.Also the mob as a whole is not into bookmaking certain members are.Thomas pitera crew was a straight drug dealing crew and guys like Gotti coming up were hijackers
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Because Mexican Americans living in Texas border towns don't share the victim mentality of some of the urban Blacks that you're referring to.

Young Blacks today---especially the men---are taught that it's okay to live down to a certain stereotype because it's not their fault. And they often get this message from lily white liberals living in suburbia, but commuting to their inner city jobs as social workers and guidance counselors.

Zero accountability for who they are. Because it's all whitey's fault anyway. And let me be clear, not all Blacks are like this. But the demographic that you're referring to certainly fits the bill.




so you know what's being taught in black households?
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 05:39 PM

I steadfastly believe that if pizzaboy and cookcounty got to know each other, they would be best friends.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: cookcounty
so you know what's being taught in black households?

Nope, I only know what's NOT being taught. Reading, writing, arithmetic, planned parenthood, and the list goes on.

And again, I'm only talking about the Blacks who are lazy enough to live down to the stereotype.

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I steadfastly believe that if pizzaboy and cookcounty got to know each other, they would be best friends.

Just so you know, Moe. I have no sense of humor when it comes to this guy. I even tried to wish him a Happy Thanksgiving. But nooooooooo. He just lives to throw taunts at me wink.
Posted By: Mark

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I steadfastly believe that if pizzaboy and cookcounty got to know each other, they would be best friends.


Posted By: SC

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I steadfastly believe that if pizzaboy and cookcounty got to know each other, they would be best friends.



I bet you believe that Santa Claus is real, too.

pb and cook - do us all a favor and put each other on IGNORE.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I steadfastly believe that if pizzaboy and cookcounty got to know each other, they would be best friends.

Come on, Cook. What do you say?

Posted By: stern49

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:16 PM

"Quit talking about it." - Morgan Freeman
Posted By: LittleNicky

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:24 PM

Pizza would need a stroke or traumatic brain injury to find any sort of common ground with cook.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Pizza would need a stroke or traumatic brain injury to find any sort of common ground with cook.

Even then, Nicky. Even then lol.
Posted By: stern49

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:32 PM

Is it all over the whole which pizza is better New York's or Chicago's thing?
Posted By: Mark

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: stern49
Is it all over the whole which pizza is better New York's or Chicago's thing?

Can't be... Chicago wins that hands down. Not even a contest. Fuhgettaboutit! wink
Posted By: ItalianForever

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/18/14 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Pizza would need a stroke or traumatic brain injury to find any sort of common ground with cook.


THIS. Even then though, Pizza would never be versed in the use of EBT cards.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/19/14 12:18 AM

lol
I think that's a good thread starter in the general discussion : Ebony & Ivory Presents: The Life & Times Of Cook and PB.
lol
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/19/14 12:36 AM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
lol
I think that's a good thread starter in the general discussion : Ebony & Ivory Presents: The Life & Times Of Cook and PB.
lol

At least I have a sense if humor about it, BF. I think Cook had his surgically removed lol.
Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/21/14 09:12 PM

Have black people ever moved into a city with low income and low crime and turned it around? Nope. Have they moved into a city once thriving and turned it into a state of poverty and high crime. Sure have, over and over again. Camden, NJ was once strongly white with multiple businesses offering good jobs (Campbell soup, RCA, New York Ship Yard).
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/21/14 09:35 PM

uhwhat

I'm guessing your one of those trolls/race baitors/pure ignorance/ God bless your heart posters.

Let me say this, Blacks BEEN in those cities back when they was at their peaks. So how in the world does go down when there was blossoming black neighborhoods confused.
Man do anybody THINKS before they post anymore?
I'm just baffled at this, Internet access to tons of information and still not up to par on basic history panic.

frown
Posted By: pimpanella

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/21/14 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle
Have black people ever moved into a city with low income and low crime and turned it around? Nope. Have they moved into a city once thriving and turned it into a state of poverty and high crime. Sure have, over and over again. Camden, NJ was once strongly white with multiple businesses offering good jobs (Campbell soup, RCA, New York Ship Yard).


^^^^^^^^^^^^rules the west side of camden and our taking away a lot of dope business from from over the bridge. Some area's it's politics and if low-income families our moved into small living quarters whether there red white black or purple there's bound to be term oil ya dig ?
Posted By: jmack

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/21/14 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: pimpanella
Originally Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle
Have black people ever moved into a city with low income and low crime and turned it around? Nope. Have they moved into a city once thriving and turned it into a state of poverty and high crime. Sure have, over and over again. Camden, NJ was once strongly white with multiple businesses offering good jobs (Campbell soup, RCA, New York Ship Yard).


^^^^^^^^^^^^rules the west side of camden and our taking away a lot of dope business from from over the bridge. Some area's it's politics and if low-income families our moved into small living quarters whether there red white black or purple there's bound to be term oil ya dig ?

I don't mean to be rude but I have no idea what you said. As for Camden, there is no west camden. East camden out by pensauken, pollack down south, and north Camden by the bridge. There is no west camden. And at one time camden was majority white but has not been for quite some time.
Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/22/14 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: BlackFamily
uhwhat

I'm guessing your one of those trolls/race baitors/pure ignorance/ God bless your heart posters.

Let me say this, Blacks BEEN in those cities back when they was at their peaks. So how in the world does go down when there was blossoming black neighborhoods confused.
Man do anybody THINKS before they post anymore?
I'm just baffled at this, Internet access to tons of information and still not up to par on basic history panic.

frown


Don't take things so literal. Of course blacks were in Camden In the 50's and before. Blossoming black neighborhoods? Not a chance. Today it is predominately black and a shit hole, despite the state dumping billions of dollars into the city.
Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/22/14 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: pimpanella
Originally Posted By: ShotgunTheRifle
Have black people ever moved into a city with low income and low crime and turned it around? Nope. Have they moved into a city once thriving and turned it into a state of poverty and high crime. Sure have, over and over again. Camden, NJ was once strongly white with multiple businesses offering good jobs (Campbell soup, RCA, New York Ship Yard).


^^^^^^^^^^^^rules the west side of camden and our taking away a lot of dope business from from over the bridge. Some area's it's politics and if low-income families our moved into small living quarters whether there red white black or purple there's bound to be term oil ya dig ?


Are you saying white people rule the west side of Camden? (Meaning Susquehanna bank center, aquarium, victors, K&Z and metal shops on front st.?) Shocker the only decent section left in Camden.
Posted By: BlackFamily

Re: Real Talk Here:Why are black gangs so fragmented - 12/23/14 07:09 AM

Smh. That's because your off on 2 statements and I'm going to leave alone due to it not being on subject:
1. Camden isn't predominately black anymore (update yourself ).
2. Just like every other crime fill city in this country , there are areas that isn't that horrible and you overlooked them. (Once again research before posting)

Peace.
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