Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?

Saw this on another site and was wondering if anyone else read this or if it was covered in another thread here? This guy has posted some bullshit articles on his site in the past (including Borgesi being the boss in Philly and the DeCavalcante family having 80 made men) and claims he has multiple sources in law enforcement and on the street in different cities.

Just wondering if he's full of shit again, or if this story actually has some merit behind it. The original story was ran by the National Post and included a conversation that was caught on a wiretap by one of the "supposed" made men who wasn't Italian.

Here's an excerpt:

According to published reports concerning wiretap recordings released following the discovery of the bodies in Sicily, Rizzuto had apparently permitted the "making" of men not of Italian descent, breaking a cardinal rule as old as the Sicilian Cosa Nostra.

One of the bodies found (after an anonymous tipster phoned police) was that of Juan Ramon Fernandez Paz, aka "Joe Bravo." He and his associate, Fernando Pimentel, were slain in a hail of bullets, then the assassins burned the bodies in an attempt to make them disappear.

"Fernandez was born in Spain in 1956 but grew up in Canada and earned a ferocious reputation on the streets of Quebec and Ontario," Adrian Humphreys recently wrote for the National Post. "When the Montreal Mafia took control of Ontario’s underworld in 2001, Vito Rizzuto, Canada’s top mob boss, sent Fernandez as his point man. Fernandez attracted and frightened people in equal measure. He once punched his 17-year-old girlfriend so hard she died. One gangster in Toronto shook so much when meeting Fernandez in a café that a ceramic espresso cup in his hand clattered against its saucer."

Part of the conversation that was caught on tape:

Declaring that Mr. Rizzuto “makes the fucking rules” regardless of what Mafia bosses in Sicily thought, Mr. Fernandez asserted his right to sit at the table with other “men of honour.”

“Vito ‘made’ me and my compare, Raynald,” Mr. Fernandez is heard saying on a wiretap, a reference to being officially inducted into the Mafia, a right previously reserved for Italians.

“You’re not Italian,” said the surprised man he was speaking with.

“No, no. Me and my compare,” Mr. Fernandez insisted, were “made” men despite their lineage.

Fernandez (aka Joe Bravo) was Spanish and Desjardins was French-Canadian. I find it pretty hard to believe that Rizzuto would induct either of these guys. Just my opinion, but I think Fernandez (the guy on the tape) was just blowing smoke. Maybe some of the guys here who know more about Montreal would be able to shed some light on this story?

http://www.cosanostranews.com/2014/11/why-did-vito-rizzuto-take-out-joe-bravo.html

http://www.cosanostranews.com/2013/05/boss-rizzuto-inducted-non-italians-into.html

This guy sounds like a real life Keyser Soze.

Vito did not make very many Italian's let alone anything else, they Fernandez and Desjardins may have been very powerful associates but that is that, Vito and his Father Nick would have never inducted anyone that is not Italian, as much as Fernandez may have talked like he was made I highly doubt it, again Vito did not make too many people.

Ya seeing that joe bravo himself is the source it really doesnt hold much water, and its not about "ed scarpo" bc he pretty much did a copy and paste job.

what reliable source? fernandez? nah.

just because he said so doesn't make it true, besides it was foolish of him to spread that info overseas

you just don't mess with certain traditional "pillars" down there

palermo ain't philly you know

Not only do I think Rizzuto did not induct a non-Italian, they wouldn't have been recognized by other members and families even if he had.

Could it have been possible for Rizzuto to pretend to induct these non-Italians simply to make them feel appreciated... Thus gaining their loyalty which ultimately is about the money! Ok didn't work out in the end if true but he tried.

I mean it's not hard. Tell the douche bags to put on a suit. Bring them to the basement. Get them to chant some italian words, burn a picture, prick a finger. Read out some rules, etc. Remind them to keep kicking $$$ upstairs.

Then Vito Rizzuto and his father are laughing," jeez we had these guys pretty good".

And like others have pointed out, other LCN members/ from other families or in Italy certainly aren't going to recognise them
as made men anyway.

So the only ones being fooled are the guys being made.

Here is my theory that I posted on another board.

I do not think he made Desjardins and Joe Bravo, but I do think he TREATED them like made men hence the reason Joe Bravo thought he was made. That kind of treatment will lead people to believe they are more important than they truly are. I mean Vito has let Desjardins run his own Canadian family for years, and lets not forget Desjardins was very close to Vito at one point especially in the 90's. Joe Bravo was a trusted associate who busted heads as well as push drugs and both brought in a ton of money to the Rizzuto's. Vito treated them like royalty and hence they thought they were royalty.

I'm with the others in that Vito didn't make many men IMHO.

no way. this is the same thing as big ron privit in philly. he says he was a capo and highly respected but stanfa wasn't that dumb he never gave him the oath and pricked his finger but he took his money and let him throw the stanfa/mob name around to earn. bravo was a legit tought guy but no way in hell would any other made guy give him a inch. think the guy ray with his brother inlaw thought vito was never coming home and wanted to make joe d. the new boss of montreal and it didn't play out the way they wanted and you had sal the iron guy thrown ray a curve and try to take him out. I mean if your brother in law become the highest ranking guy in the city it helps you out a lot.

I agree with this theory. You put on the dog and pony show and let them think they are made. You know no one will believe them if they try to brag about it. And at the end of the day all you have to do is deny it.

Rizzuto wasn't a dumb man, we can all agree on that. I wouldn't put it past the guy to have fooled these two into thinking they were made just so they could be more loyal to him.

TO ADD:
Lastly, why would Joe Bravo go to SICILY of all places and throw out this rumor with no hint of truth to it??? It's not like sitting in a cafe down here with Tom, Dick, and Harry. He was essentially in the birthplace of the Mafia throwing out a huge rumor about himself. He must have known the consequences of saying something that unwarranted without any hint of truth behind it.

Was he formally made into the mafia? No, probably not. But I do believe Rizzuto coaxed him into believing he was an official member just so his loyalty would be that much stronger.

again: we are talking about montreal/italy not sloppy philadelphia

you just do NOT screw around with the ceremony. even if it just "for show".

I think that's exactly how dixie stated: they were "top" level "associates", way above the average ones.

Like those non-italian big leaugers in the outfit years ago, gus guy alex or something

You've forgotten the no.1 rule in that rules will be broken at some point!

LCN history has shown us the bosses apply these rules to control subordinates but break them all the time themselves/ when it suits them.

I'm not saying they were formally inducted man. Hell Rizzuto could have said jiberish in Sicilian and they thought he was being serious.

I just find it hard to believe someone would be that stupid to go to mainland Sicily and make the one claim that could get you a bullet in your head on the spot without a shred of truth to it.

It is actually not that hard to believe that Fernandez would go around saying he was made as he was known to have a big mouth and being a bullshitter as they all are.

And that is what it's all about: recognition. Without it it doesn't mean anything. Rizzuto would have made a fool of himself in Mafia circles if he would've inducted them. He would probably have been shot for it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I'm with TonyTough that Rizzuto somehow swindled those two to believe they were made members, even though they weren't.

If you wanna go ahead on the "no the rules are the rules and are never ever ever ever ever broken" when the majority of you can name off the top of your heads a million times the rules were broken, go for it, I'm not here to argue.

I just want to be clear on where I stand: Do I think they were formally inducted members of LCN? NO. Do I think Rizzuto in some way or another deceived them to think they were considered made men? Yes.

Don't forget, at the end of the day all Rizzuto had to say was no I never did that, even if he did. Because of his position he would of been cleared on his word alone.

fair enough.

Fernandez seemed like a real low-life. He killed his girlfriend back in 1989 by punching her in the stomach with ridiculous force. Probably on steroids!

I am sure Fernandez was quite valuable to Rizzuto back in the late 90s/early 2000s as "teeth" for his encroachment on Toronto. But Rizzuto was too much of a old-school gentleman mafioso ever to have trusted such a vicious dog, let alone induct him into the mafia. He simply made use of Fernandez, and once he learned of Fernandez's disloyalty, the game was up . . . .

Sums it up nicely.

He punched her in the throat actually. But yeah, with ridiculous force and quite probably during a case of roid rage. He tried to pimp her out to an associate of his. When she refused to have sex with the guy (who possibly was a complete stranger to her), he broke her windpipe. If that isn't the definition of lowlife trash I don't know what is.

Without a doubt he was a tough character and he reputedly was able to work with lots of other criminal gangs in Toronto especially (bikers, Caribbeans, Sri Lankans,...), but in the end him running his mouth eventually got him the barbecue treatment.

Desjardins must be releived he is in prison right now or he would be gone, but he could get his in there as well we all know DeVito did.

Yep it would get very interesting if Desjardins could get out on something for a week or two. Would be interesting to see how long he could survive without Di Maulo or Rizzuto's help.

Wonder why this guy hasn't fliped give up wat evers left. All his friends are dead. I think before Vito died he probaly reached out to all criminals bikers mafia blacks NYC and put 100k or more on his head. For all the shit he did if not more money just seems like him having multi millions and international contacts could do that hit team from a cartel. Wonder if he would hold his kids responsible that's a scary thought.

Shit Desjardins has it made in prison supposedly. They were even scared of him breaking out while going to court. Dude has a lot of power when it comes to the French-Canadians.

I'm of the opinion that he did, personally. Fernandez wasn't killed for running his mouth, everything points to him being killed for refusing to meet with Vito and trying to play both sides of the fence. If we're of the belief that placement means something in this lifestyle, the guy had Fernandez seated right next to him over his own kind.

Although I do suppose he could've been leading both on and taking parts of their earnings, but if that were the case, why not just kill them and takeover their businesses, he did it to everyone else, what made Fernandez & Desjardins any different ? Considering the association with Vito made them bigger than what they were without him? It just doesn't make much sense to keep them around and so close to him, when he really didnt have to. Especially in Desjardin's case, because it turned around and bit Vito in the ass.

After they took over Vito was known more for settling things than he was quick behind the trigger. It seemed you really had to screw up when he was in control to get clipped. Of course that shows you why so many feared him and why he had control when he wasn't in prison too.

It seemed Vito was more on the side of "hey lets make some money" than "I'm the boss and will kill you for looking at me wrong" like Galante seemed to do.

That's true Dix, still though, I just think that Rizzuto actually protected Fernandez. It may have been in a "he's my cash cow" sort of way, but if he made a shitload of money for Rizzuto, that's even more reason for him to make an exception in my personal opinion (in the case of Desjardins also). To me, there's really nothing that says that he just made money with Fernandez and kept him at a distance. He kept those guys close to him, they were some of his main guys, especially Fernandez' case, I believe. Running his mouth didn't do him in, he failed two or three times to meet with his so-called "Compare". I really think Vito thought of him the same way, and that playing both sides of the fence shit is what got him killed.

And I'm also of the opinion that Vito wouldn't have cared what anyone else thought, he ran Montreal, who can tell him what to do? He had Ontario, the rest of the Organized Crime groups were the 'Ndrangheta, the Siderno group, Hells Angels and those Rock guys, and a bunch of black gangs. Basically there would really be no one to tell him what to do, and he had the power, so I don't believe his own guys would've challenged him (as we know, punks waited until he was locked up to make that kind of move). Sicily guys maybe, but they were kind of in two different worlds, but not really. And we know when Fernandez went down there anyway he made money with those guys as well for the time he was out there. Even after they had questioned about what he was saying when he was running his trap. Which could possibly mean they contacted guys in Montreal to validate it, but I think there's like a 20% chance that actually happened. And he cut off NY basically and stopped kicking up after a while, wouldn't even accept the Captain position after Sciascia death, and bullshitted Vitale about the number of guys he'd had out there. He clearly didn't care what Joe Massino or any other Bonanno (Except MAYBE for the Zips.),had thought about him or decisions.