Roy Demeo questions

Was he made or not? And are Demeo crew members associates of Gambinos?

Also,who was the shooter of DeMeo murder?

im just finishing { murder machine} for the second time yes he was made by the gambinos. the shooters were joey testa, Anthony senter, senter putting the final bullets in his head.

He was made in late '77 by Paul Castellano.His crew members were all associotes,they weren't made guys.He was in Gaggi's crew from '66.

Joey testa and anthony senter were made into the lucchese family

Demeo was killed at patty testa's house by the Gemini twins

Im convinced Roy knew exactly what he was walking in to

Question, Is it true or false that big Paul first gave the contract to john and gene Gotti to whack demeo and They turnt Paul down because they feared going to war with a crew full of serial killers?

Gotti supposedly met with DeMeo on some pretext to feel out whether or not he'd be able to kill him. Gotti, so the rumor goes, didn't think he could pull it off.

DeMeo, for his part, knew he was in deep shit and was said to be carrying a sawed-off 12 ga around with him for protection.

Apparently, Roy had worked out a plan to fake his death with son Albert. Too bad Roy didn't put that plan into action earlier.

have the book " murder machine" right in my hand. page 348. it says he was lured to patty testa garage quote, "after roy took off the black leather jacket he was wearing. nino pulled out a handgun and began firing at his head he was hit seven times in all" he was already dead when testa and senter put a bullet behind each ear. I thought it was the Gemini twins myself, but, the book says nino. vinny carbone.. it was offered to gotti and he did turn it down, he didn't want a war with demeos crew.

that's exactly what it says in the book, " murder machine"

I thought it had been established that Gaggi wasn't involved in DeMeo's murder and that it was Anthony Cassso who arranged it.

Iceman999 im just going by what I read in { murder machine} this was 1983 was casso powerful then. murder machine is a great read.

The way Murder Machine was written, you get the idea that the Gemini Twins are the sources for many of the tales therein. But even if that is the case, we don't know what the real truth is. Stories are often invented to protect the real killers, as murder has no statute of limitations. One thing is for certain, even if Casso orchestrated the hit, he could not kill a made Gambino without Big Paul's approval. So I think everyone can agree that Big Paul killed Roy Demeo, if nothing else. And that was Paul's style, something Sammy the Bull hated about him....he'd have people from other families kill Gambinos.

I believe Casso claimed to have participated in the DeMeo murder, this according to his biographer Phillip Carlo in his Gaspipe: Confessions of a Mafia Boss.

Personally, I don't see why Casso would claim to have participated in this murder if he actually didn't, as he really doesn't have anything to gain or lose at this point.

Murder Machine is a Mafia "must read" imo.

As for Gaggi, I believe, as someone had previously stated in another DeMeo related thread here, that the authors assumed, given the information they had at the time, that Gaggi was the triggerman, but that subsequent information provided by Casso in his book confirmed that Casso was given the order to kill DeMeo, which, along with the Gemini Twins who he was now in control of, he then planned and executed.

I agree - Murder Machine is the best story/bio type mafia book

The Iceman killed Demeo..

iceman, if you don't believe the book { murder machine} you have to take that up with jerry capeci who, along with gene mustain, who wrote the book.

iceman, if you don't believe the book { murder machine} you have to take that up with jerry capeci who, along with gene mustain, who wrote the book.

Each to their own opinion.
I tend to believe the Casso version about Roy going to Pattys house and when seated ready to receive coffee got shot down by Joey + Anthony

When Murder Machine was written and revised the Casso book still hadn't come out. It was a fair assumption on the part of the book's authors to assume that Gaggi, given his close association with DeMeo, would have been the obvious triggerman. Casso, in his biography. states he told the Twins either kill DeMeo and come and work for him, or he, Casso, would kill them.

I find it hard to believe that Gotti was afraid of DeMeo. He whacked a boss without commission approval but he was afraid of DeMeo, im not buying that.

He didn't personally whack Big Paul. He stood by and watched the hit take place, but he didn't pull the trigger.

Gotti, I believe, was overheard on tape saying that the DeMeo crew killed more people before breakfast than than they, the Gotti crew, had ever killed.

Also, consider DeMeo's body count. The man was an accomplished killer and butcher. A fact that, no doubt, weighed heavily on Gotti's decision not to try and take on DeMeo himself.

Thats my point.. Gotti planned the hit on Castellano and he knew the repercussions could of been MUCH worse than if he killed DeMeo.
Gotti may have been caught on a wire expressing his view on DeMeo but that certainly doesnt mean he was a afraid of him.

he had permission from every family but two. and Gene made it pretty clear that John had no interest in taking the contract on Roy.

Belmont, when we read the book Murder Machine, we were told that the "Demeo Crew" was just a few people. Roy Demeo and a few debilitated young coked out dope heads. But I don't believe that we know the whole story. Supposedly John Gotti said that Demeo had an "army of killers" and that he didn't want to cross paths with them. Then we go through other mob lore and find out that John Carneglia might have been part of Roy Demeo's murder machine. Kuklinski passed by the Demeo crew club house. Was the complete Demeo crew busted or did some get away. I think some got away.

In a match up between the Gotti brothers and Roy Demeo's paltry little crew (as described by Capeci and Mustain's book), there would be no contest. But this is assuming Roy had that paltry little crew and nothing more.

The Gemini Lounge was a police hang out. Think about that. Everything they did, the cop cars were always out front and cops were in the bar. They did the killing in the apartment in the back. Do we know everything about Roy Demeo? I don't think so.

Let's not forget the Jimmy Coonan, who, as we know, owed DeMeo for killing Spillane and "opening the door" for them to work with the Gambino Family.

Gotti killing or even attempting to kill DeMeo could have stared a Gambino civil war, which is why I think Big Paul got someone outside his family to kill DeMeo.

You r right,tge were probably guys that dominick montiglio didn't know,and that the cops didn't catch.Carlo profetta was one.Even patty testa wasn't cought at rhe time gemini crew was on trial.The thing was that Paul wanted John to do it,and John coulnd't.John killed less than 10 people,he and his crew coulnd't get close enough to Roy at that time.

And you might be righr about carneglia,because the brother had a big chop shop,they dealt with cars,murder and drugs just like Roy Demeo.So it's posible that Carneglia's were closley conected to Demeo crew.I know for a fact that the Dinome brothers were in buisness with them,real tight.And not much is know about Richard Dinome,but he was a crazy MF,made a lot of money too.

I wasn't making it up but I read it somewhere about one of the Carneglia's having a possible connection to Roy Demeo. It might have been Charles Carneglia.

I know you r not making it up,you probably read it at the same place i did ;)Anyway the were all in the east new york/canarsie/ozone park are,so they had at least some buisness together(talk8ng bout Gotti crew),as did the Vario crew.Roy was actually going to kill Henry hill in 1980,but he sent his wife and she escaped.That scene from the movie was real,and it happend in front of the gemini lounge in brooklyn.I heard this from henry himself,he was talking about it in one shoh on yt.

In the move goodfella's, it was jimmy burk that was going to kill Karen, it was actually DeMeo? Was it at the behest of Burke or a separate issue between Roy and Hill?

Yes tha's correct,the scene where Burke is offering karen a dress you know,i don't know about the dress part but the other stuff is true.The guys that were suposed to get karen inside the building were the demeo crew(guys that are moving the boxes)Atleast that's what henty said.


It was after he got caught with drugs,when he got out of jail,like in the movie.

I don't get the impression that henry knew roy before that personaly.

When did henry hill say that about demeo? Like you guys said could make sense considering their crews were both in Canarsie

In a interview with a reporter i dot know wich one was it,there is many.i am not making it up belive me he said it.Only if he lied about it,but the fact is he said it.He talk about his drawing at the end of it,how you can buy them on ebay.I think it was that one.I dont know what is so unbelivable,the bamboo was in canarsie too,the gemini was like 10 min away.Whay wouldnt that be the truth what henry said,but like i said i dont get the impression that he knew roy personally.

Roy was associated with lucchese family before he got hooked up with gaggi so I can def see that happening.. Roy and his crew went looking for contracts around that time so maybe henry or Karen got invited for lunch in the clubhouse behind the Gemini.. And you know those sick fucks had no problem killing a woman

Agreed if Roy was connected to the lucchese s it was with the the very powerfull Vario crew.They probably met along the canarsie junkyurds where freddy dinome was working also,and it is known that he was in play with them.Paul Vario had a big chop shop,junkyard at ave D in Canarsie.And there was the bamboo lounge as i mentioned,and paulie was at the Geffkins bar and grill at flatlands ave.So there had to be some connection.I read that Danny grillo and Roy were into hijacking from JFK,there must have been another thing that they had in common.There some stuff about a guy named clyde brooks,i dont know who that guy was but he worked for Vario,he did cars or something like that.Anyway,he had a junkyard on ave D also.

Good points and I'm sure every gangster in Canarsie knew each other or of each other.. You don't make people disappear once a week and not have people talk about it. Henry hill was a mutt compared to roy when it came to earning.. Roy was GREAT at 2 things that mean the most in the mafia, he was a sick fucking maniac of a killer, and he was about as good an earner as one can be(as well as his whole crew).. Hendry hill, not so much!!

henry hill rode the skirts of jimmy burke, Im hearing the movie goodfellas was wrong. it wasn't jimmy burke who wanted to lure Karen hill into a warehouse but roy demeo. I always thought it was jinny burke.

Even if it was just "artistic license" in the film, the point---and it was well taken---was that Jimmy Burke had no compunctions about killing women. And he didn't. The guy was a sociopath without a shred of human decency or an ounce of remorse in his entire body .

Don't be surprised if Henry made the part up about Roy intending to kill Karen. These types of guys are initially fairly truthful about their activity until they start making money on it, at which point their nose grows longer and longer.

Hill said he cried when he learned that DeSimone had been murdered.

Hill was a born liar. And when you couple that with addiction, the fucking guy didn't even know when he was lying. He was one sick puppy in that regard.

Well DeMeo had disposed of bodies as favors to other Families before. So it doesn't seem like a stretch for DeMeo to help Burke by killing Hill.

Maybe i wasn't clear,english isn't my first lango.I am sorry,but what i meant is that Burke called Henry to meet him,and that punk henry knewing he would probably get killed,sent his wife.(henry sent karen to meet burke insted of going himself)Burke met her in front of the gemini and told her to go inside.But she was a very smart women,far smarter than henry,she got away(i dont know how she got away but she did)How nobody saw this interview can't understand.I'll try to find it and post it.
Anyway thats what i meant the movie is half true

I heard Jimmy burked cried when tommy got whacked. But didn't tommy try to rape Karen and because of it, Paul Vario told john ( gotti ) that it was Tommy who whacked both foxy jerothe and billy batts and that's really why Tommy got whacked ?? Th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBvdRT1P6cQ here you go,there he goes about the gemini lounge..36th minute and on.thats what i watched and what i was talking about

Hill was a born liar. And when you couple that with addiction, the fucking guy didn't even know when he was lying. He was one sick puppy in that regard. [/quote] pb youre right on about this hill, a despicable human being, he cannot tell the truth, on this video at 36 sec he says "jimmy wanted to meet him at the Gemini lounge", hill knew they would kill him, so the dog sends his wife,he didn't care about her at all, in this interview he is coked out of his mind. this g uy is a poorexcuse for a human being, he makes me sick, a twobit punk pass stoolie.

yes, he does say that and sending his wife makes him a yellow dog.

Gotti was afraid of Demeo which is pretty much a fact. Gene Gotti was caught of wiretap saying that his brother wasnt interested in taking the Demeo contract because he had a "army of killers" around him. It was alos revelead that at that point Gotti's crew had killed less then 10 people and Demeo had killed much more. if that doesnt say that Gotti was scared of Demeo i dont know what does lol. Gotti was a tough guy no doubt but he did fear certain people. Hell even Big Paul at the height of his power intimidated Gotti.

gotti was a loud mouth punk he didnt want any of demeo or his kru fact is gotti was a bottom feeder after scraps all the time he shudda got wacked earlier on before the castellano hit which made him even more of a bellend i lost all respect for the gambinos when he was in power nino gaggi all the way for me lol

he called the Gemini Crew The Westies. had the interviewer not corrected him he would have went on about The Westies. I know good ol henry was off but he was a special kind of off during this.

this interview is great.

this is hill on Stern great almost.

I might catch a lot of shit for this but I think Gotti was the luckiest mobster of all time. he wasnt an earner, he wasnt much of a hitter, he was a degenerate gambler but he was well liked by two of the most influential people in his family(Fatico and Neil). a few of the guys around him seemed to do well(Sal Ruggerio, Gene) but Gotti himself never seemed like much of a money maker. I'll give credit where credit is due tho, he managed to get all the right people together and made the power move of all power moves. he also convinced enough of the guys to accept him as boss so it wasnt all luck but Im convinced a lot of it was.


way off topic but if Castellano had never gone to Sparks that faithful night and Gotti could have somehow bided his time until Paul went away during the Commission trial and survived, that would have made for some very interesting power grabs.

but Ive always thought that had Paul survived that Paul would have flipped.

Why do you think Paul would flipp,nobody of the other commision bosses flipped.Whay would Paul flipp

Because he was soft....He thought he was a business man and forgot where he came from, that's my reason.

alexandarns,... im with you on this. I don't think paul would have flipped, he also had a good chance of beating the charges against him, as far as gotti goes, he was a disaster to the Gambino family. brought them down hard, only a moron would crave the lime light, he should have been killed right after he got out of the joint. actually, the gambinos were fools to make the dunce, look what happened to them.

They convicted everyone in the Commission trial. What makes you think Paul would have been any different?

Now I seriously doubt that he would have flipped. I don't even know where that comes from. But he most certainly would have died in prison, just like his co-defendants in that case.

i agree. Lets face it the main reason gotti got made let alone became a captain was because of neil dellacroce. He was a degenerate gambler who pissed away the crews earnings and they had to resort to drug dealing

I agree that Paul thought of himself as a businessman, thats why I think he would of flipped. he was a lot different from all the others, Paul was rich off of legit shit alone and had the means and motivation to just say fuck it, Im out. he didnt seem to have much interest or need for LCN at that point in his life.

Ive never read nor heard anything to suggest that he would have flipped, just an uneducated guess on my part

pizza boy, in the book "murder machine" walter mack, the head prosecutor didn't have enough on paul to convict him with the demeo crew to the car theft ring, and the star stoolie montiglio could not testify that castellano received any cash from the demeo crew regarding the stolen cars going to Kuwait.

yeah but they had Paul's house bugged just a couple years later where he was picked up talking family business, bad mouthing all the other bosses, talking about his penile implant and carrying on an affair with his maid. he was going down with the rest of them.

between those really embarrassing things, being rich legitimately and having spent a considerable amount of less time on the street and in most cases in prison than the others that were on trial.

You didn't answer my question. I referenced the Commission case. I agree that they didn't have shit on him in the car theft ring. But it's the Commission trial that would have put him inside for life.

Paul would have been convicted via the RICO Act for his participation in the Concrete Club.

yeah, youre right, I thought you were referring to the demeo problem. im reading "five families" right now, and raab goes into the commission case and, yeah he would have went down. my bad, but I got an excuse. hell, im no spring chicken.

in the car case was paul named as the enterprise along with the gambino family? if so they did not need to put $s in his hand just establish co conspirator to rico..20 years if found guilty

Bronx, in reading { murder machine} I don't think they filed a rico case, henry Borelli got a ton of time for it. the Gemini twins didn't go down for that case I don't believe, and they didn't have much on castellano. the prosecuters knew they had a weak case on him. montiglio was their prize witness, and he really couldn't tie paul into the car case.

thank you b coll...

How many hits you think roy demeo did himself over 50 hits some say and how many you think his crew did over 200 maybe ?

I always felt the assumption that the DeMeo crew killed close to 200 people was terribly exaggerated and ridiculous. I think someone added an extra zero for the sake of sensationalism. I say no way in hell.

yeah i think maybe 50 to 70 hits its about tens years they was doing right ? demeo did say he done over 50 hits or near to it

200 is exaggerated but 75 is probably more accuarate. Thats still a lot and a big reason guys like gotti was scared of him

I think Ivy posted a list of the documented DeMeo crew hits. It was around 60, that they know are for sure. I have to imagine there were more hits we don't know about. I could see it around 75 or so. Which is insane.. Just putting peoples lights out with a complete disregard is just crazy.

yes, demeos crew were nothing but serial killers, as was demeo himself. capeci who wrote murder machine put the killings at close to 200, in the book the prosecutor { walter mack} told the judge 75 to 100 and there were many more, there were senseless murders going on for years.

That's true binnie,real serial killers.No regard to human life,very sad.I saw a great pic of roy,its a cartoon.Roy in a apren,with a knife and meat cleaver all bloody.Thats how i imagine him

I always imagined a commercial with Roy and his crew for their own brand of marinara sauce where it's being bottled out the bodies he's bleeding out in the bathroom.If I had the money I'd film it myself

That's the picture,nice find ice.Hora hotel

Really interesting bit of DeMeo trivia is how he got appointed to the board of directors of a bank. One can only imagine what the board meetings must have been like.

About Roy's stolen car ring. How much money was it generating?

He made a tremendous amount of money with cars. Back then they were called "tag jobs." DeMeo also was able to procure blank titles. Try doing that shit today, its very difficult.
The good old days; now computers and camera's kill everything,

Would that be the Brooklyn credit union?

My take on the Demeo crew body count is that 75-100 seems plausible. The 200 figure was no doubt supped up for book sales.

As for Roys car ring - wasn't it generating something like 5 or $600,000 a month?

gary h. in reading of murder machine. yes, when demeo made that connection in Kuwait that took his stolen cars, he was really making a lot. it could be even more than you suggested. that's what kept him alive, I think castello wanted to clip him, but, he was kicking up to paul, and he took the money and looked the other way no matter what demeos crew was doing. the body count remains unknown. in the car theft trial the prosecutor told the judge [ we know of 75 we can attest to your honor, but there are many, many more.]

I know many people on this forum are impressed with Demeo's earnings and whatnot, but I sort of agree with Paul Castellano's view that Roy was not a good choice to be made.

Even a scheme based on stealing tons of cars a day was bound to go bust sooner or later. Guys like Roy burn bright but don't last. He was actually very sloppy and unintelligent as evidenced by some of the unsanctioned murders he did, like the kid he blasted in his car, or the young salesman he chased cause he thought the Cubans were coming.

Roy was no good and trouble from the beginning. Castellano's main mistake was capitulating to Nino's nagging and finally making Roy. Evidence of that is that the indictment for the car theft ring was tied right back to Castellano from Roy. Paul Castellano, leader of a car theft conspiracy? How unbelievably embarassing for a Boss like Paul. If they would have waited longer, Roy would have been dead or in jail and never a made member. They just needed to wait out the nagging. Plus him being made might have made it harder to control his killing and protect the public from him.

At one point Roy tried to prove his worth by bringing the Westies under big Paul's umbrella, but eventually even that proved to be a bad idea and a hassle Big Paul could do without.

Another Question:

I once startet a treath where I asked: Was Roy DeMeo or a Soldier at the time of his death?

Someone wrote, that he was the Acting-Capo of Nino Gaggis Crew. I read Unterboss, and Maas/Gravano wrote something about "Nino Gaggis Crew, Roy DeMeos Crew".

2 Different Crews or did they mean DeMeo´s group of serial-killers?

sorry, I received some good questions: http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=771131&page=1

He was only a Soldier a Good Earner And Killer Read THE Book murder Machine A Good READ

Yeah, unbeliefable:

DeMeo -> Good Earner, good Killer
Gotti -> No good earner, (no Killer?)

Unbeliefable, that Gotti bacame Boss.

he was acting for a minute

just finishing the book [five families, by raab} great read.while casso didn't have the body count that demeo had, he was no doubt, a very disturbed individual, he was homicidal, paranoid, and as blood thirsty as anyone in the history of lcn. when corralo went away he had to have know this guy was poison. big mystery what tony ducks was thinking.

While Casso was probably always a psycho, on the show Manhattan Mob Rampage a Lucchese associate named Sal Clemente said Casso was much worse after the attempt on his life. He said something snapped in Casso's head after that time they shot him.

ok.......... thank you for that benny.

Bumped:
Did Roy's murder weaken Castellano's Brooklyn faction and set him up for overthrow by Gotti.

What is ironic is that Roy's leather jacket was wrapped around his head, just like he wrapped towels around the head of his victims at the Gemini Lounge.

Another independent link to the depth of Roy DeMeo's involvement in the The Times Square porn operations and the Westies.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-porn-prince-of-new-yorks-live-sex-shows-in-1970s-times-square

Roy was a stone cold killer but the whole crew 200 ppl,,,i give them 100....dead bodies

https://deadline.com/2022/01/mafia-...emeo-crew-dominick-montiglio-1234907037/