Whitey Bulger-Informant or not?

Just watched the cnn doc and it seems to imply whitey was NOT an informant, basically John Connelly planted other informants evidence in whiteys file after things were going tits up in the relationship.

The documentary is very good though, it fairly impartial and you cant help but think whitey is being at least half truthful, but still a killer resigned to dying in jail. He talks about weeks, martarano and flemmi as the rats and NEVER him...watching the doc, you kinda beieve him!

He's a stubborn old Irishman.

In other words, he informed on others but HE has lied his whole life that he probably believes he never informed on anyone else .

In other words, he informed on others but HE has lied his whole life that he probably believes he never informed on anyone else .

Sorry for the double post. Dropped my phone and somehow hot the submit button twice. They're all guilty but they all wanna point the ginger at someone else like they're innocent.

Hit, not hot. And finger, not ginger. I've got nothing against redheads.

That's the EXACT same lie that ALL rats tell themselves to justify their actions in their own minds.

He's a rat mutt who deserves to get ass raped well into his 90's.

there is absolutely no doubt this dog was an informer for years, along with being a murdering dog, his brother was a top dog in the mass state senate, and he was a big crook. I hope they both burn forever

Yes he was a rat. He's just trying to save face since he knows he'll never get out of prison again so all he has left is his name.

I do believe Conolly did put crap in there from other informants to keep Whitey a TE Informant so he could keep him on the streets. But it was well known the info for the Angiulo bug came from Whitey and Flemmi. I do think Flemmi was a rat before Whitey and once Whitey realized he could play the same game and stay on the streets he did it and played Conolly and Morris like a fiddle.

I also think the FBI played a dangerous game just like they did with Scarpa and lost, and will do anything to save face. Them not interviewing for this documentary tells you enough.

But until Whitey testifies and tells all like they threatened nobody is going to take him seriously.

Nobody would have thought Scarpa was a rat either...

And the same stories have circulated about Dellacroce.

I have read all the books over the years and obviously have seen the new documentary. I think I have soaked up enough info to confidently say he was definitely not a rat, he owned the FBI, and he was in charge of whoever he had dealings with, not vice versa. As far as his claims that he didn't kill the Debbie's and it was all Flemmi, that is pure bullshit. He is definitely lying about that as I am sure he personally killed at least 1 of them and definitely had a hand in both of their deaths. I am not just basing this off the new doc either, his
FBI file is clearly a joke. In the new doc too you can tell when he is lying when he speaks, he is clearly comfortable talking about paying the Feds but is lying for sure when he says Stevie killed the women.

I believe it was stated in Black Mass that Bulger had asked Flemmi about the pros/cons of being an informant after being approached by Connoly and that Flemmi thought it was a great idea.

You're a rat or you're not a rat. It's like being pregnant. If you're in that life, and you're talking to the cops about the criminal activity OF OTHERS, even A LITTLE BIT, then you're a rat.

Thank you PB, thats what I been saying about Michael Franzese. And wasn't John Gotti Jr Queen for a day?

You're welcome. And it's good to see you posting again .

Not so sure about that one. Wasn't Stevie banging both women? Why would Whitey want them dead when it was well known Flemmi was banging his step daughter, then when she threatened to talk why would Whitey be the one to kill her? Even the jury returned a verdict that there was not enough evidence that Whitey killed her. Whitey's lawyers GRILLED Flemmi at trial over it and he folded like a cheap "silver spoon" from Wal-Mart. Check out the court transcripts, they are not "one sided" like documentaries are then tell me you really think Whitey killed her instead of Flemmi. I don't buy it.

Yes Whitey owned Conolly, but yes Whitey was also a rat as well. Yep kept the Howie Winter debt to Jerry Angiulo then gave the Feds the info for the bug that eventually took the Angiulo's down. Not to mention what all happened before that, there is no way it was all Flemmi in taking down Italians AND the Irish.

There's no way this guy got away with the shit he did without working with the feds.

Then a lot more guys are rats in OC than most people think.

Explain?

We all know Whitey is a rat like PB said, you talk to the cops about other people, your a rat. But dixie Bulger did not give the info for the bug in the doghouse. Agent Morris testified, Flemmi was the one who gave them a diagram of the place, he says Whitey didnt give anything on the Anguilo bug. Sonny Mercurio, a made guy was giving the info for the Anguilo bug. Morris would call Agent Quinn, the case agent on Anguilo and he would ask Quinn what was heard on the bug and take the info, give it to Connolly and he would put it in Bulgers file. Did you hear Flemmi's testimony, he was stumbling all over the place, basically admitting he was Whiteys bitch boy and it was all Whitey who did everything. You kidding me these guys were partners for decades, Flemmi knew every move Whitey made and vice versa. The group, Winter Hill circle that made their decisions together and had to have an equal vote all agreed Whitey should meet with Connolly, cause an FBI source was the best kind you could have against their enemies which has been going on since the start of organized crime in America. Flemmi was ratting 15yrs before Connolly ever approached Bulger and as Flemmi states its all Whitey. Flemmi took down his best friend Frank Salemme, Stevie hid and Cadillac took 15yrs. Theres so much more to the story that will never be told.

Oh yea Flemmi looked like a fucking fool at the Whitey trial. There is still no way this was all Flemmi though and I agree Whitey was just as involved ratting as Flemmi.

I'm sure Flemmi had a lot of info on the Italians considering supposedly at one time he was being considered to have been made (not sure how true that is) and I think his brother was made so no telling the info he was getting.

I will still say that I don't think Whitey killed both women. I say at least one was attributed to Stevie.

Definitely wasn't all Flemmi, it was the 2 of them feeding off eachother. They're informants, the files prove it. They're plan didn't go write with the immunity clause, so Stevie dumped it all on Whitey cause hes bitter he was locked up while Whitey was on the run, plain and simple. They both killed those women, its easy to know that. Stevie had plenty on the Italians, they loved him, Larry Baione wanted him and Salemme, but Flemmi stayed with with Winter Hill. And his brother Jimmy was never a made man, freelance hitman, who first worked with the Bennet brothers and did his own thing and became a partner of Barboza. He wouldnt have ever been made into the family especially back during those days, they never would have taken a loose cannon like Jimmy the bear.

I still think Stevie killed his step daughter or whatever she was to him, I didn't see any other reason for Whitey to have wanted to kill her and Stevie had all the motive in the world for that one.

Not sure where I thought I seen The Bear was made, I might have just got it mixed up with them wanting to make Stevie.

Didn't Cadillac Frank have a brother involved too?

You probably heard he was made on here, the Joe Russo fella said it. Yea Frank had a brother Jackie, he was acting boss temporarily. Jackie was at the table in Chinatown with Brian Halloran when George Pappas got shot to death.

Yea I knew I read it somewhere but just couldn't remember exactly where. Thanks for the info, I like talking Whitey and crew as it is an interesting story. I'm just trying to learn more....lol

Guys,black mass,the book is a work of fiction.all those other whitey books are mainly lies. Ive gone back n forth over the years about this.I Dont believe he was a rat. I think he was GETTING INFOA,CONNEly had to open a file to save face,he was spending an insane amount of time w these guys.I just have seen no evidence to suggest anything he ever had supposedly given that wasnt common knowledge.never gave any detailed reprts,it was a smear campaign.I lived there I grew up there,the head guy now was meeting w him years until he got caught in 2011,why wouldn't they let whitey talk on stand,??

I am not saying he never gave info on anyone, but more then likely we will never know truth. FBI has their own ass to cover and I always take info they give on "informants" with a grain of salt.

As I understand it, the primary evidence that Bulger was NOT a rat hinges heavily on the state of his FBI file.Supposedly it contained a fraction of what it should have for someone who informed as long as he did. Further, the file is riddled with "doubles", that is, the same piece of information filed more than once to pad the file out. They also contend that most of the files are extremely vague, using circumspect language as to avoid actually incriminating anyone.

It could be that his handlers tried to expunge files that made Bulger look like a rat, or it could be that they were on his pay role and thus he only gave them useless information. I don't know. But I do know his heavily redacted FBI file is highly suspicious.

Bulger was definitely a rat on paper, though. He was a confidential informant right? Like, even paid by the state to provide information?

I lean toward him being a rat for the simple fact that his arrest came right on the heels of some sort of change in administrations in government or law enforcement. That's symptomatic of the suspect having an informant relationship with law enforcement. Likely information was going both ways; from Whitey to LE, and from LE to Whitey. That is the most dangerous type of criminal. You can't hide from him and you can't inform on him.

I think he was a rat too.

And Paddy,

The Feds didn't stop Whitey from testifying. They chose not to testify (him or his lawyer).

The point is that the FBI after Valachi say that La Cosa Nostra is a real organization,Hoover that since then ever said that the mob is a myth,used al the systems to destroy Cosa Nostra.

So sent in prison Tolomeo e other 3 innocent mobster,and used Bulger for destroy the Patriarca family.

That Bulger was a killer,drug dealer ecc wasn't important,everything for destroy the mafia.

the end justifies the means as said Machiavelli

In terms of putting Italians away I go with the theory that Flemmi gave up most of the info on the North End guys. I'm sure Whitey wasn't really plugged in with them to know more than what they wanted him to know whereas Flemmi was in tight with those guys. If I recall correctly he turned down the button several times. They tolerated Whitey because of his LE sources, and eventually because he inherited Howie Winters debt.

I absolutely believe, however, that Whitey snitched on anyone in Southie who he perceived as a threat and didn't want to just kill for whatever reason. Pretty sure it was Pat Nee who Whitey sent on an armored car robbery and then tipped the Feds about it. I think he even sent Nee on the robbery with an empty gun.

As for Tameleo, Greco, Limone & Salvati, that was all Joe Barboza, who had personal grudges with those guys for various reasons.

If I remember well, in the documentary "United States vs James Bulger" the defense tried to prove he wasn't an informant, while the FBI insisted he was. Because if he was an informant, the FBI could try to "justify" their giving him considerable freedom of action by saying "oh well, at least he was useful because he gave us information to put away criminals more dangerous than him". On the other hand, if he wasn't an informant, it makes the FBI look even more like shit, because that would mean they covered up and took bribes for a criminal who even didn't help them to make arrests and solve cases, meaning they would look like dirty/crooked ones, plain and simple, who did help Bulger purely for financial gain or personal favors.

Well said Bones. It does seem Flemmi for sure gave up Angiulo and the other North End guys. I also agree on you about Whitey too, I definitely think he gave up Southie guys.

It seems the only other reason that Angiulo didn't kill Whitey was because of the 250k debt and it seems they did use them for certain things it seems.

And Bones you are right again on The Animal giving up those guys. Didn't Limone get some huge settlement? And the dude gets out and wants to be boss and is supposedly the man now. Talk about dedicated!

It's right they call Limone "Chief CRAZY Horse"; he must really be crazy to get back into the life after all he has been through imo.

Dirty Dealer Rat liein Bastard.


Total Rat, when it served him.