If Joe Adonis didn't get deported...

Would he have become head of the Genovese family?

Would Vito have tried to make a move on him if he did become boss?

Great question, would like to know this myself. Just how powerful was Adonis?

I don't know why john Davis in mafia dynasty claims dozens of times that Adonis was in mangano/ Anastasia family. He was obvious genovese and big in nj. And he wasn't a competitor to genovese. Vito spent 10yrs biding his time winning the support of the rank and file soldiers. He was the master of manipulation guile and treachery. That family was gonna be his one way or another

Joe Doto was around Luciano, Costello, Genovese and a few other members of the Morello family in the 1920's, but also members of the Mineo family. Adonis may have been made into the Gambino family, due to Anastasia being in that family and he had a close relationship with Anastasia, the Mineo brothers, as well as the Scalise brothers. By 1932 Adonis was with the Genovese crime family, that much is clear even though Joe and Lucky had been friends since their teen years.

Great question, Joe Adonis was a powerhouse in New York City, but mainly in New Jersey. When Genovese took over the family, most of Joe's allies and friends were gone, he still had contacts with other families. Most of his power had been disminished when he was deported. Had he not been deported, I feel he would have gone head to head with Vito, and the only two capo's from New Jersey that he could count on other then members of his own crew, were Anthony Boiardo and Salvatore Chiri. Vito was waiting his time, he was not a powerhouse in New Jersey till Guarino Moretti was killed in 51', Genovese became underboss in the family and was only rivaled in the New Jersey faction of the family by Adonis. Something that is often overlooked is that Vito only really worked with other Italians, where Adonis worked with not only other Italians but other ethnic groups which would give Joe an advantage if he needed the man power to fight Genovese, but Genovese had skilled hitters in the crews that were loyal to him, even though he sent Chin to kill Costello, who botched the hit, can not be over looked as well. Both Adonis and Genovese knew each other, as there have been at least four reported murders where both were the shooters, Joe The Boss being the most famous of theirs.

Genovese was a real heavyweight and I don't think anybody dared go toe to toe with him. That's why they framed him instead.

great post, i have nothing to add.
EDIT: Iam sure he woulda have taught young john gotti piano

Vito was a heavyweight no question. But he had to wait for Willie and Albert to be out of the way before he made his move on Frank. We all know Frank wasn't a killer and didn't like guns, so Vito knew he could push him over real easy. Joe had the political influence like Frank Costello. But unlike Frank he used to be an enforcer for Frankie Yale, his name has been mentioned with several killings, and he knew how to make money legally and illegally. So if Joe had become boss, knocking him off wouldn't have been easy.

It's been mentioned a few times on ths thread, just to make a correction. Vito made his move on Frank before Albert was killed not the other way around, Frank was shot in May and Albert was killed in October.

Vacari good stuff. What do you think would have happened if say Vito did go head to head with Adonis? Would his friendship with Lucky been enough to stop Vito's overthrow and would have Vito waited to build his power base even more?

Didn't Adonis live in Ft. Lee or am I thinking Albert A?

After Adonis' deportation to Italy there were strong rumors that Lucky was angry and no longer speaking to him for not stopping Vito.
Adonis moved to Ft Lee from Brooklyn in 1944. Anastasia and Tony Bender followed his coattails and became his neighbors. Bender was very close to Vito. While in NJ, I read Adonis hired a black chauffeur who lived near him in an exclusive white neighborhood. That would have been a big deal in 1940's. I found that tidbit interesting.

What if .... Just what if Luciano was never deported in the first place. What if Luciano was freed after the war. Would genovese still had made the move on Costello's life knowing that Luciano would be 100 percent against it or even attempt to make a move on Luciano himself? What you guys think? One things for sure, Genovese wasn't all there in the head.

There would be no reason to try to kill Frank if Lucky was still the head of the Family.

A man without friends is a man without power.
Lucky was friendly with a lot of powerful people, in his family and outside of his family. I guess it also depends on how Vito's faction felt about Lucky. From what I read Lucky was about making money for himself and the people that work with him. I don't know what reason anyone would have to back Vito over Luciano.

Btw a lot of the things I said about Lucky can apply to Joe, as far as relationships with people.

Both Adonis and Anastasia lived in Fort Lee. Giacomo V good post.
There are few things I 'd like to add. Longy Zwillman was with Moretti, Adonis, and Anastasia holding weekly meetings in Cliffside and Fort Lee. Boiardo was NOT with them until after Moretti was clipped. Remember Boiardo and Longy had a beef both wanted to control the bootleg business in Jersey.
I seriously doubt Adonis was chauffered by a black man especially in that neighborhood which was made up of mostly Italians and Jews (some Greeks). My Italian Aunt couldn't even marry my Uncle who was Jewish they had to elope so a black man in that neighborhood , I say No Chance
I thought it was a myth that Adonis and Genovese took Masseria out, thought Ben Siegel and his men did it
(I'll add more later gotta run)

Not to go off track, but the feud between Longy and Boiardo was settled years earlier while Moretti was still alive. The info on a black chauffeur came from long time resident of the area. I doubt any racist neighbors would dare say anything to Adonis at that time. The neighborhood had a large percentage of Jews and Italians. Bender's wife was Jewish, as was Costello's. I could go into more detail but don't want to derail topic.

I think it was in Giancanna's brother's book, he mentioned that when they were making a deal with the CIA on the castro hit, the NY boys wanted Adonis to be allowed back in any kind of deal !!

That shows how he important he was !!

Btw, I was born, raised and still live in Fort Lee, and its a shame they knocked his house down just to build one of the monstrosities...Anastasia had the nicest house in Fort Lee !!

Very interesting about this chauffeur you mention seems so bizarre. I still cannot believe it. You are exactly right about no one would ever DARE say anything to Adonis. If you set up a new thread about it I would love to see what you got to say, as the Luciano crew is my favorite to talk about.

Genovese was behind all of those hits. Everyone knew it but did nothing about it.

Adonis was a killer in the 1920's. By the 1950' he was living the high life for 30 years. Genovese was still a street guy

That maybe true, especially with Morreti. Although Willie was loosing his mind and Albert had gained ill will for being reckless. Vito was definitely good at lining people up.

Joe was an enforcer as a young man, but your reputation precedes you. I read people didn't want to go against Bonanno because of his reputation on the streets as a young man.

I was in both Fort Lee and Cliffside a couple times this year. Geez I cannot believe how much they are building in Fort Lee, I hardly recognized it, same with Edgewater, that used to be a dump now it is prime property. Go figure...
So I have to ask you since you are a Fort Lee guy, Hirams or Callahans lol?
What about Palisades Amusement Park, were you ever there or was that before your time?

I read somewhere that someone in government was all for joe Adonis returning, it was in the early sixties im sure, the story goes that president kennedy was for his return, but Robert kennedy was not, and raised hell about it. so it didn't happen because of bobby. seemed credible to me.

Hi Alfanosgirl...Yeah, that project by the bridge is gonna make traffic a nightmare here..Very different from when i was a kid..You're right, Edgewater used to be a dump, and now you have to pay $700,000 for a one bedroom condo lol...I liked Callahans hotdogs better because they were bigger lol..I like Hirams burgers, and fries better !! I was born in 1967...Too young to remember the P.A.P.

Alfanosgirl, the fued between Bioardo and Zwillman was settled around 1949, and Joe did indeed have an african american chauffeur who had strong connections to a black gang that operated in New Jersey. Lansky is credited with Joe the Boss hit, but the shooters were Albert Anastasia, Joe Adonis, Vito Genovese, and Willie Moretti. ht2, Lucky was mad at Adonis not only for not stopping Genovese, but he also thought Adonis had kept profits for himself, which turned out not to be true, which also cost Lucky to loss respect by Adonis and the two did not talk that much after that incident. DM, Vito would have waited a bit longer before he made a move on Adonis, cause unlike Costello, Adonis was respected and feared by a lot of other members in the other families, and well as the other criminals nation wide that were not Italian. If Genovese had hit Joe without first strengthing his position and weakening Adonis, Vito would have been killed not long after that. Adonis deportation was a blessing for Genovese.

Giacomo I just want to kiss you on both cheeks or make you a tasty dish of gavadeel or both. You always have answers. At the age of 7 my Pops told me about the Moretti murder that happened down the street from his house. We were watching the Godfather and there's a picture of Moretti lying dead on the floor with Detective Joe Mossier smiling and posing for the picture. (The scene when they "hit the mattresses" and Coppola's pop plays the piano showing all the newspaper clippings) So you can imagine the effect that had on me as a little kid. I heard about Anastasia and Longy and the other men but Adonis was the one who my family knew. It could be because the Alfanos were from Naples and Avellino same as Adonis. Joe Adonis Jr and his sister were in the neighborhood, my Pop and my aunt and cousins knew them. Joe Jr ran a place called The Den right in town where everyone would go. My Pops told me that there was a huge tank filled with pirhana and Joe Jr or one of the guys would throw meat in there and love to see the pirhanas go at it. The guys went crazy laughing while the girls would scream lol. My Aunt said that Joe Jr looked like a movie star; he was so good looking.
For 36 years I have been asking questions, reading, researching these men and today I can finally say that my questions have been answered. I too, wondered why Luciano and Adonis had a falling out. Luciano was a witness on Adonis's marriage certificate. That shows just how close those two were.
You seem very confident in stating that those four Italian men were responsible for the hit in Coney Island. That's a tough one for me to digest but my Pops always said these guys will whack you as soon as look at you and those were the men he was talking about so I can see how they could very well have been the shooters. (I gotta tell my aunt about the chauffeur ) And I should have paid more attention to the DATES of the Zwillman - Boiardo beef and when they squashed their beef. My bad.
Thanks Giacomo you are Amazing...

Can anyone explain the LUCIANO ADONIS fued at the end of their carreer's .And THE STORY THAT Morretti couldn't be trusted after KEAFALVER hearings don't sound right .Vito offed him cause he knew his was a Costello ally

in the book [ the last testament of lucky Luciano ] Luciano tells of meeting Adonis shortly after he was deported. Luciano recalls that Adonis had 2 million dollars in u.s. currency. as Luciano relates the conversation, he asks Adonis. "give me some money" Adonis replied " no, this is all my money" Luciano was angered at that remark and lashed out at Adonis. ' if it wasn't for me you would have nothing" Adonis still refused to give Luciano anything. as lucky recalls in the book he told the author " I never trusted joe since." and they never saw each other again.

I don't understand why Lucky would be so hard up on cash. Costello was boss until 1957. I'm sure he must have sent some of it to Italy

I'm sure he wasn't hurting, but most gangsters are greedy.

I think it was more of a respect thing. lucky probably thought that he was responsible for joes good fortune, because lucky may have set him up years before, and lucky wanted him to acknowledge that fact.

Anybody have information on the Broadway mob? They say Joe was the head, but Lucky and Costello ran the day to day.

The BWM history is murky, but it seems that AR was in fact the leader till Joe the Boss began making his moves to take over all of New York. After Rothstein was murdered in 1928, Salvatore Luciano became the boss. From 1926 till Rothstein dead, there was an unknown Italian member who was boss over The Broadway Mob, who sponsored many of the young members in that crew, Joe Adonis, Frank Costello, Paolo Fraccacreta, Vito Genovese, Thomas Greco, and Salvatore Luciano. After the war the unknown member remained a soldier direct with the administration, even when Genovese took over. Frank Costello, Paolo Fraccacreta, and Thomas Greco all attended his wake and funeral in the 1960s.

At least Joey lived the "Bella Vita" in Italy for 15 years and much richer than his buddy Lucky.

Anyone know anything about his son not a lot of info on him.

Bob Delaney, who went undercover to infiltrate the mob, encountered his son and talked about him in his book. When he went out to dinner one time, Adonis paid for The Godfather theme to be played on repeat and boasted that he had seen Part I and Part II heaps of times. Delaney presumed this was also an intimidation tactic towards the owner of the restaurant.

Adonis bet Delaney that he would win in a game of softball and he did. Delaney had to shout him dinner at a nice restaurant.

Of Adonis, Delaney said he "had a fun loving personality and was easy to be around".

This is a photo of Adonis (A) and Tino Fiumara (B).

Great info was tino hes capo what was jr involved in?

Lol being called out years ago for using a novel as a 'source' obviously did nothing to taper your imagination. War of the Godfathers II is waiting for you to step up to the plate GV

By all means quote the book and page where that info can be found. For the record, you won't find it in the book, but please go ahead. Sifakis is a good researcher, but I disagree with some of his writing.

I wasn't referring to this most recent info that you have pulled out of thin air. I was talking about when Rick/faithful1/antiliar called you out for using a novel about Luciano as a source a few years ago, when you were promptly booted from ever forum but this one(where facts mean little to nothing.)

Who is this mystery man that was AR's boss?

You seriously need to write War of the Godfathers II, I believe you'd do a great job with fiction.

Is there any info you can show me about this unknown Italian boss?