Do Bosses Whack Guys Themselves?

I have a curiosity. Not being a mob guy or familiar first hand with that life, I often wondered how can a truly strong mafia boss keep his family in check without being a hitter himself.

Or let me phrase it like this. Are Bosses allowed to do their own hits under Cosa Nostra?

What I mean is, if a Boss has to rely on other people around him to hit his enemies, doesn't that sort of put him at the mercy of his hitmen and bodyguards?

On the other hand, if a Boss did their own hits from time to time, wouldn't that Boss exercise far greater control over his administration and family? He can call any of his lieutenants to a meeting and they have to arrive alone on his terms. They don't know whose at the meeting. They can't bring anyone with them, and the Boss can see them coming before they ring the bell to the hideout. On top of that, they must answer the Boss' every question and can be whacked by that Boss at any moment. So this Boss has everybody in deep check, his Underboss, Consigliere, Capos, everybody. A Don like that you aint takin out easily.

The boss can do what he wants, but why would he do hits when he has 200-400 made men and 5-10 times that in associates that will do what they are ordered to do? There is also the layering that is needed with plausible deniability.

And it's not about the boss being a psycho fucker that will chop you up with an ax if you piss him off. It's about the boss being the top of the tree of an orginisation that deals in secrecy and murder, and that boss can ask anything of his underlings and get it, or those underlings will be killed by others.

A boss didn't make it to the top without being harder than the rest, but once on top it's his decisions that decide if you live or die rather than his guns or his hands.



That's how it already works. Except if you are called to a meeting you will never know if you are meeting the boss to talk shop or walking in to an ambush. But if you don't come when called you are as dead as they get.

Look, it's not about the boss being Hulk Hogan. It's about the system. Old men like Carlos Gambino, who any street tough could beat to death in a minute lived in absolute fear of him because, like a Roman Emperor, a smile or a grimace from him would decide your fate.

Maybe, but there is that instulation to help protect the boss. The boss gives the order to kill someone, the capo picks a soldier to do it or the soldier picks an associate. Scarfo comes to mind, but he did not pull the trigger, he was only present in the apartment when it took place. Casso killed Hydell personal, but he was not the boss, but an administration member in the Lucchese crime family. The Irish bosses on the other hand have been known to personal kill instead of having an underling take care of it.

Many known bosses had murdered when they were younger. Example: the Chin, John Gotti, etc.. but the only ones who killed WHILE they were boss were the psychos.

Yes, I believe if Casso had been made boss he would've continued killing people personally, but that's because he was a psycho and killed people for fun. I think Anastasia might have killed someone as boss, but once again, total psychopath.

Just like you get a lot of pedophiles working in schools (sorry, disgusting I know), you get a lot of sociopaths choosing to be in the mob so they can murder and do other horrible things without repercussion.

In Sicily that happens (or at least happened) more often than in USA, especially since Toto' Riina got to power.

Al Capone personally kill 2 men with a baseball bat.

I remember that! Vicious. Now a guy like that, his Capos have to think 5 times before double crossing, and even if they come to a consensus to get rid of him, how do you get him? That's not easy. You can't get him at a meeting he called. So you must do some sort of public ambush, but if you do a street ambush, a night club raid, or a drive by, Capone was ready by being surrounded by body guards and a tank masquerading as a limousine. He just wasn't havin it.

I've often wondered why Carlo got so much respect. But part of it had to be because he might have inflicted medieval tortures on offenders. I read about the wiseguy or pretend wiseguy who was fed into the meat machine by Carlo's people. That's terror.

I think the respect Carlo got also came from the fact that he might have been more politically connected than the average mafia boss and the Gambinos on the street knew it. So killing him would be like killing their police, government, and legal protection. It made no sense to.

We might not have any anecdotes about Gotti doing hits while Boss, but he might have kept everyone around him guessing, with quotations like these...

""You tell this punk, I, me, John Gotti, will sever his mother-fuckin' head off.""

Now compare him to Paul Castellano. There is no comparison. Gotti called Big Paul a yellow dog or something similar. I read an anecdote about Big Paul telling a room full of his top capos and killers that the cops are the real heroes, not the mafia. Roy Demeo was in the room. So was Nino Gaggi. Demeo's reported reaction was disgust that Paul would praise the police while having guys like him do the dirty work. This suggests that Paul did not kill while Boss. Big assumption, but a logical one. If that assumption was true, it didn't help Big Paul keep control of his family. Neil Dellacroce was stonewalling him without consequence. He should have been able to call Neil in.

That's actually terrifying.

OT: I don't understand how if the Irish were in the Police departments and also had their mobs, that they allowed the Italians to dominate organized crime. Rightfully, the Irish Mob should have been the institutionalized organized crime, and the Italians should have been a street gang paying tribute to the Irish for police protection.

Well Said Brotha!

I love the Hulkster but I just found out that WWE isn't real so, Don Carlo probably could whoop the Hulkster, even at 76!......But I will accept Brock Lesnar instead!

He probably feared the real physical power of the blue collar faction, just the way Gotti supposedly feared the psychotic faction(Demeo crew)........Even though Paul took over the boss of bosses title from Carlo, when all hell breaks lose and wars are about to happen, I would want to side with the guys who reside in the trenches and know how to get their hands dirty.

In a war, rules are not followed and the normal order has broken down. Big Paul even said to his maid that the reason he was sad is because, all he has is money and, people like him die in the street!

Rocky Infelise & Joe Lombardo participated in murders while they were bosses.

Rocky Infelise & Joe Lombardo participated in murders while they were bosses.

the last post I made starts with paul castellano just didn't get it. it should have been below the quote,i don't know what happened.

I was sleepy and accidentally read the title of the thread as "Do bosses whack themselves?"

I know that I read in Casino that Nick Civella,boss at the time of the Kansas City LCN.He had Allen Glick brought to him in a darkened motel room.He told Glick as he out a pistol on the table that he wanted answers or he would not leave the room alive.Also,Glick had colpained about the light being in his eyes and Civella replied,"I can accommodate you by pulling your eyes out".Pretty brutal talk from a Boss.Obviously,Glick had felt he would have been killed that moment by Civella right there had he not given the info wanted

That might not be true. The autopsies of Anselmi, Scalise and Giunta show that they were beaten and shot to death. They were probably knocked down to the floor and kicked before they were shot. There's no proof a baseball bat was used. As for who did it, it's probable that Frank Rio was one of them and maybe Tony Accardo. Some think he got the label "Joe Batters" from this incident, but others think he earned that nickname earlier. Nobody ever talked, so we don't know who was personally involved.

AL capone did have a personal baseball bat holder with a bat in his armored car.... right in the middle

Ok, now Infelise died in jail and was never hit. Lombardo is still alive. LOL, never hit. It's awful hard to hit a Boss that will whack your behind himself. Real hard. And a Boss like that doesn't have to worry about his lietenants becoming demoralized about him being an impotent fearful leader. His danger is probably putting TOO much fear in his lieutenants, to the point that they feel they must overthrow him for their own personal safety. But if I had a choice to be a hands on or a hands off Boss, I think hands on goes without saying.

That's how Luciano used to roll, if we believe one anecdote that came down about him having someone in a room surrounded by his closest confederates, and him placing a gun on the table in front of him and talking softly to the person. That was exactly Luciano's style.

You see, if his Capos didn't fear him, he was no Boss of Bosses. If his Bosses were afraid of him, then he is Boss of Bosses.

The Boss is the only Soldati that can kill without permission from anyone in the family, or should be. That is a strong thing. Every Boss didn't exercise that degree of dynamic power, and some of them paid for it.

One word about Umberto Anastasio (Albert Anastasia).

He participated in his own hits from time to time for the sheer enjoyment. Sadism? Maybe. But the only reason they got him was he had a towel over his face and was caught unsuspecting with no body guards around to my knowledge. Other than that, you weren't going to whack a Boss like Albert at a meeting or private setting. You just weren't.

Carlo´s power mostly came from his closeness to Tommy Lucchese and Vito Genovese. He also had close relatives who were/had been powers within not only the American Mafia, but also among the Mafia element in Sicly. His brilliant mind and flawless leadership abilities must not be denied either. However, he was not known as a fighter or a man that would battle it out with someone. Physically imposing he was not and probably never a street fighter. He was Mafia loyalty from the beginning, just like many of the early leaders (Profaci, Bonanno etc) who all hade close connections and blood ties with powerful men in Sicily. He had an army of soldiers who were loyal to him. All this contributed to his power.

Who was this mobster you said was fed into a meat grinder?

And to answer your question. No, LCN bosses do not whack guys themselves.

They were crew bosses, not THE boss. Did Giancana or Aiuppa ever whack a guy while they were running the Outfit?

In the old days I could see a violent boss like Anastasia, Capone, or Genovese doing a hit for the pleasure of it. These days with the feds hovering around like vultures, it would be hard for a boss the sneak off and do a hit. Only on the Sopranos

LCN bosses do not whack anyone....that would be extremely rare and extremely stupid. They didn't spend all those years in the trenches to climb to the top with all the insulation that provides, just to go participate in a street level activity...if a boss was that stupid, he wouldn't be a boss in the first place.

In recent years I haven't read of any bosses doing murders themselves, but plenty of the younger administration guys have done it. Carmine Sessa personally killed a couple of guys while consigliere. Sammy Gravano was at the scene of a couple of murders while underboss/consigliere for Gotti. He claims to have never pulled the trigger in those hits, but who knows. Gaspipe did the same thing with Jimmy Hydell while consigliere.

exactly. why would they want to, did frank Costello ever whack any,body? did Thomas luchesse, did joe profaci. they had crews of killers, all they had to do was say the word. why would they bother?

On page 25 of World's Greatest True Crime, the event is mentioned, but no name is given.

The crime committed by this individual is that he tried to seduce the wives of mobsters who were in jail. Carlo couldn't just order a hit. He had to make it gruesome or he'd look weak and endanger himself.

I'm aware of that. Carlo had blood and familial connections to about 4 Mafia families in Sicily. The Gambinos, the Inzerillos, the Spatollas, and the Di Maggios. So those people were probably sending him heroin, and he was their point man, cousin, and distributor in the States. A very powerful position, similar to Lucky Luciano's positioning between the Mafia and the Jewish Mob of Meyer Lansky. Then when Lucky was deported to Italy, he also had the Sicilian mobs behind him (aka the Cupola/Italian Commission). When a man is that connected, that's what you call a thoroughly dangerous man.

PS I think Lucchese benefited more by being connected to Carlo than vice versa. IMHO Vito was a brute unibrow. Vito's power came from just the fact that he was brutal and inspired loyalty due to it. But in retrospect it seems like all of the most important Bosses were against him. I can't think of anyone standing behind Vito that lent him authority. Vito's authority was self derived in a sense.

Lucchese was a powerful mafia figure long before Gambino was even on the radar. He was underboss when Gambino's feet were still wet. Tommy Gambino's marriage to Lucchese's daughter gave a piece of the garment district and JFK to the Gambinos. It previously belong to the Luccheses.

I agree tommy had the unions long before Carlo.His men loved him,he was just as smart or even smarter than Carlo.Died relativly young in 1967.Luciano always said that tommy was a better killer than Anastasia

that's interesting that Gambino would be more powerful because of the luccheses family. as far as jfk airport goes, that belonged to the lucchese family. paul vario, jimmy burke, and their crews owned jfk.the garment district was always a lucchese stronghold. you seem to know the lucchese family very well.

Do anybody of you guys know how many soldiers did the lucchese's have in time of death of tommy lucchese?was it bigger than gambino's?

Absolutely! Also keep in mind that Tommy Lucchese was the major supporter of Gambino being appointed the new boss after the Ananstasia hit. Lucchese was sucha freaking sneaker that he let others do his talking on the Commission. No doubt was he a master manipulator.



The Gambino Family was bigger in size.

I am of the opinion that Carlo was chosen to be of greater importance than Tommy Lucchese because of his pedigree. Tommy wasn't a relative of the Heroin smuggling families of Sicily. Carlo was. I believe Carlo's pedigree played a part into why he was installed as Boss after the hit against Anastasia.

So Carlo was mafia royalty, Tommy originally was not, in my humble opinion. By intermarrying with Carlo's family, Tommy became mafia royalty.

luchese was a top guy in his family for forty years. He was definetly a big hitter even arrested on suspicion of murder. The lucheses never wise were smaller than manganos but the luchese influence per soldier was the highest among all 5. Tommy owned the garment center, JFK and had Long Island locked down. Gambino inherited his power from the contributions of Anastasia and his ownership of the docks and longshoreman. It was tommy who helped install gambino and if not for becoming terminally ill he would of been the top man in ny in the 70s. After luchese died, gambino parlayed all his connections and influence w others to become the strongest don. Carlo was power hungry which luchese was not. Luchese def one of the top 3 influential gangsters in NYC history along w Costello and gambino. Def no arguement there

On a side note, I read somewhere that even though Lucchese and his family ran the garmet district, that they were only supervising for the rest of the families. Meaning, the Lucchese's ran it, but the monies flowed upwards to the Commission and were split among the Bosses and maybe their administrations. This will lead to my next post, about Boss of Bosses. Hope to see you and everyone else there.

some do while others don't. i mean at the boss of the family level yea al capone did BUT i think it was more of an example to keep his people as well as his enemies in line. obviously though they don't kill everyone they want dead.