Last "italian neighborhoods" in NYC

More like presence today than real neighborhoods but I would say (in term of population, not stores or whatever):

- Dyker Heights, Brooklyn (13th Ave, Fort Hamilton /Bay Ridge Pkwy, 86th St, 14th Ave, 7th Ave...)

- Staten Island (Charleston, Great Kills, Arthur Kill, Tottenville)

- Queens (Howard Beach)

- Morris Park / Middletown Pelham Bay, Bronx (Williamsbridge Rd, E Tremont Ave, Morris Park Ave, Pelham Pkwy, Middletown Rd, Crosby Ave...)

- Throggs Neck, Bronx (Harding Ave, Pennyfield Ave...)

Too weak nowadays for the rest (Bensonhurst, Bath Beach, Ozone Park..)

You're way off with Morris Park. The populace is mostly Albanian and mixed Latino these days. And as far as Throggs Neck, well, I've been in the Bronx for fifty five years, and in Throggs Neck for almost thirty. And it was never an Italian stronghold, in that it's been a mix of Italian, German and Irish forever. And if you look towards the southwest part of Throggs Neck, where the new golf course is, that section more closely resembles Castle Hill today.

Italians want to live in the suburbs today. We don't leave because we have too much business in the City. But there's no denying that there isn't a single Italian "stronghold" left in the Bronx.

What's Bensonhurst like today? That's basically the Gambino's powerbase..

Multi-ethnic. Lots of Chinese and Pakistanis, some Albanians, pockets of leftover Italians.

If you consider Country Club area an autonomous neighborhood you could say that it is the last truly predominantly Italian pocket of the Bronx, Pelham Bay also has an Italian presence as does the Indian Village section of Morris Park but there both on the downslide

What about 18th ave, they have the feast there right> So what areas of NY are actually mainly 'Italian' PB?

There's still a good amount of Italians right off the boat in Bensonhurst, including Mannino's, Inzerillo's, Spatola's, among the rest.

Thanks for the infos PB, very instructive as always.

An Italian pocket and an Italian stronghold are two entirely different things, Tony Kid. You know I take no pleasure in posting that. But I don't deny it either. Ten more years and the Bronx will be less than ten percent Italian. And it's not much higher than that right now.

My kids and I recently went to one of the feasts in Little Italy NYC. They asked me why is there a Chinese man with a drum in the parade playing alongside all the Italians. I told them I have no idea to enjoy your time on these few blocks because when you get older and come here to visit who knows if the Italians will still be here.

I can't argue with any of that pal, I was just trying to point out the handful of areas still around with a notable Italian presence, shits changed unfortunately and I recognize that as much as anybody

They're all HUGE families, am I right Carmela? Santo Zito's fam as well.

I've passed through the 'Little Italy' of London before in Clerkenwell, Italian my arse...

They are. And every summer they all go back to Sicily (at least the kids do).
As far as Santo...honestly I don't know much about him. My husband calls him a riceball with feet (arancina ki piedi); other than that, I don't know about him.

I know that, kid. It just makes me laugh sometimes that the Italians who moved to the suburbs---and who can blame them?---seem to be the first people to lament the fact that the neighborhoods are gone. If it bothers them that much, then they should have stayed.

And you know I don't mean you or your family, or any of our friends here. You and I have discussed this ad nauseam in pms over the years. But if I didn't have so much business in Queens and the Bronx, we'd be long gone too.

I mean, who in their right mind would want to raise their kids in a five story cold-water walk up when they can afford to live in a nice suburban setting in Northern Westchester or Eastern Long Island or North Jersey?

Exactly no one, except for a few thickheaded holdouts like myself. And if I can accept the fact that the Bronx isn't remotely Italian anymore---and I still live here---it shouldn't be so difficult for the former residents to let go .

The smiley is for Carmela. She knows .

You coddle these boys and smile too much. Yes, I know. Ugh.

Bay Ridge still has an Italian strong hold, Bensonhurst as well but in a couple of decades that will change. I don't think there are any Italian neighborhoods left in the Bronx or Queens. Little Italy in Manhattan is just that "Little".

You seen the picture of Cali, Pete Inzerillo and Lupoi they're all skinny then Santo at the end about 5 ft tall, 250 pounds

Yeah well Cali' is chubby now, not like that pic. I heard.

In 08 he looked slim, but chubby? Maybe but have you seen Santo Zito? He's a heart attack in waiting..

But you do realize that the Italians that you pointed out to your kids don't actually still live there, right?

2010 Census: Not a SINGLE Italian born resident left in the 10012 zip code. And the populace itself was less than ten percent Italian American. And that was almost five years ago.

You know I make my living in New York City real estate these days, so I pay very close attention to demographics. Now some people might thing that's being bigoted, but any intelligent landlord does the same thing.

Anyway, a studio on Mulberry and Grand will run you about $2500 a month today. A fucking studio. If you doubt that, take a gander at Craigslist or one of the big real estate sites like Elliman or Corcoran. What immigrant can afford that? And when you couple that with the fact that there aren't really Italians moving to the United States anymore, is it any wonder that things have changed?


Smaller every day. Even restaurant row has shrunk to Mulberry between Canal and Kenmare. And Kenmare is honestly stretching things.

Dyker heights and bensonhurst To a smaller extent, bath beach In brooklyn.
Lots of chinese in benson and some russians as well, the chinese are very dirty.

They don't wash?

But they own all the dry cleaners.

That's fucking ridiculous, how many bedrooms? I pay £300 a month for a 4 bedroom house

HHAHHAHAHA!
LMAO

Oh Delicious irony.

My Pop's doing great. I'm back on my game .

Forget downtown NYC and Italian, unless you count kids who grew up in the suburbs and moved here that have Italian last names. But those kind of people don't consider them Italian in the sense you're thinking. And they definitely don't think they are trying to make it an italin demographic. They're just American kids.

PB, isn't Bensonhust still 30% Italian or so? And actual Italians, in the sense this topic is addressing.

Regarding PB's point about the suburbs, why not live there? Safe, nice, and smells good, haha.

Exactly. I remember when Sofia Coppola bought a high end condo off Spring Street. She went on and on in one of the real estate magazines about "keeping the culture alive" and all the usual Hollywood crap. Like she didn't grow up Hollywood fucking royalty in California. It didn't even occur to her that people like her were the ones driving Italian Americans out of the neighborhood who lived there for fifty years.

Oh, and she's sold it since then. At a tremendous profit.

What a joke... You're exactly right. She's the problem (as am I) not the solution...

To clarify though, there is no solution. It is over. Forever.

It sickens me to know that not a SINGLE Italian born resident is living in Little Italy. Who could afford it at those prices. Things have sure changed.
Honestly, my kids really appreciated being in Little Italy even though it wasn't what it used to be. They wanted to go into the dairy market, take pictures of where my great grandpa lived on Mulberry St, listen to the young kid sing Sinatra songs, and eat at a different restaurant for each meal just so they can experience the neighborhood. They got really into it for young kids.
When we were in Queens, I showed them the bocce courts and the old Italian men who gathered in the park to play cards and shoot the breeze. I was so excited to show them what little is left of our culture.

I have to hand it to the Hurst, they do a good job of keeping that neighborhood clean tho.

Before everyone gets all indignant, assimilation isn't the worst thing in the world. Living in nice houses is a cool thing.

As long as you always remember where you came from. Always appreciate how hard your family had to work to make your life easier.

True.

Of course. I say it all the time. If you grew up in a walk-up apartment, where half the time your Mother had to boil water for you to take a bath, or you slept on the fire escape in the Summer, there's no way in Hell you'd want the same for your children.

People who have romantic notions about the old tenement neighborhoods never had to live in one. It's on par with "money can't buy happiness." Because I promise you, the first person to use that one was dirt poor.

Exactly. There is a reason why poor people live in (some of) these old neighborhoods. Except the ones that were gentrified, of course.

My uncles still live in bensonhurst,the last time i was there in '08 it was pretty nice,probably still is today.Lots of chinese and russian stores.

Just a few long standing italian stores left.I hear Gino's was closed some time ago.One by one..

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I'd assume it has gotten noticeably more Asian and less Italian in the last six years. But I'll wait for PB for a definitive answer.

Thats so racist.

It probablly has,why do you need somebody to tell you that?

I'm not a Brooklyn guy. And the truth is, I haven't been out to Bensonhurst in at least a year. Although I still get out to Midwood every so often. Anyway, there are still pockets of Italians in Bensonhurst. And those pockets have lots of big Italian families living there. But as a whole, the Italian population in Bensonhurst isn't predominant anymore. And it's just going to continue to shrink. It can't grow. It's not possible at this point. Between assimilation and the changes to the immigration laws, it's just not going to happen.

He just knows the actual statistics which I'd prefer over conjecture.

Well, I guess not. But still I don't see how waiting for confirmation from someone who might know the definitive answer is bad...

What's the difference between a Brooklyn guy and a Bronx guy?
It's not a joke but you can make it one if you like. I know a few of each but I only notice the difference in the accent. So what are the similarities and differences?

That is true my uncle's doughter and son lef a long time ago and they are just under 30.It's not common for young people to stay there,young italian americans like my nephews are gone.

So pb is right,italian populatin can't grow at this point

alfanosgirl i would like to know myself

Lol, you're kidding right?

Ya got me

Really, you guys are BOTH bleeding heart liberals .

As an aside, I may be the only one but I've always thought that the importance of there being "Italian neighborhoods" as a base for the Mafia was exaggerated. The Italians moved, in large measure, to the suburbs years ago. While it can certainly be seen as a symbol for the very real assimilation of Italians into mainstream American society, practically speaking, it's had little impact on the Mafia's ability to recruit new members - at least in New York. Though one could certainly make an argument about the quality of those new recruits.

Is it just the recruitment? I imagine having a criminal base in an Italian neighborhood in 1960 would be more lucrative and result in less exposure. But that's just a theory.

Bingo!

I've said it here a hundred times: You can not develop a true gangster mentality if you grow up wanting for nothing in Suburbia. There are anomalies, of course. But for every Tore LoCascio, there are a dozen Craig DePalmas.

Watch it, PB, you haven't seen what I'm capable of...

The Irish said the same when the Italians started to move into their neighborhoods in the late 1800s. Just saying...

Ivy: you're kidding right?

Crime is based on socio-economic factors.

You don't have a poor Italian base, you don't have a mafia.

If you think for one second, There'd be ANY sort of mob based of a happy, healthy middle class? You're kidding.

And fuck the Red Sox. I'm going to to bed.

Ageed

But that's when Ellis Island came into play, HK. More Italians (and Europeans in general) came to America between 1880 and 1920 than at any other time. That's not going to happen again.

Now America will always be a "Nation of Immigrants." But there has been a clear shift as to who gets in and who doesn't in recent years. The powers that be don't encourage immigration from Western European (read: White Judeo-Christian) countries anymore. And it's a shame .

Like everyone is saying: just small pockets. Some of the larger pockets are in Queens. Especially Whitestone, Middle Village and Howard. In fact I would put Middle Village up there with Howard as far as remaining Italian populace.

If you ever walk through Richmond Hill, especially 98th street south of Jamaica Avenue, plenty of Italian flags. But it's a predominantly Guyanese neighborhood (or something). Same thing with Corona around 104th street (now mostly Mexican, etc.).

The truth about Queens is that is almost 50% Asian, all of it.

Check out this map from CUNY that says it all:
http://www.urbanresearchmaps.org/comparinator/pluralitymap.htm

That's spot-on, Flushing. And even though I have more than a few years on you, we're alike in that we're both outer borough holdouts who still actually live here.

I have many good friends on this board. But if one more person from the Midwest asks me if the Bronx will ever "be Italian again," I'm gonna scream .

What is Staten Island like today? Isn't it around 30-40% Italian today? That's pretty crazy for it being a whole borough and having that big of an Italian population.

But Staten Island is the PERFECT example, Nicky Boy. Staten Island, while technically one of the Five Boroughs, is very suburban. It's MUCH more like North Jersey in feeling than it is like the other boroughs.

Italians move to the suburbs today. Staten Island = The Suburbs .

Yeah, Staten island is fuuullll of Italians, and to a lesser extent, Jews.

My girlfriend's family lives out there. Not exactly my favorite place in the world.

Seems like everyone here wants to go back to the 1950's and have their grandparents living downstairs and their cousins next door, the social club on the corner, the italian bakery across the street, ect...........
Aint ever gonna be like that again.
I think a lot of everyones fascination with Italian neighborhoods are all the great stories you hear everyone tell. There was always action, no one knew they were poor, there was a real sense of community, everyone took care of each other, everything we needed was right outside our door. Very true, it was like that, but keep in mind, those same people in those hoods would dream about living in the suburbs one day.
Everyone wants to grow up like Colegero or whatever his name was in a Bronx Tale. Lol

Except for the people who actually lived through it. Like me, and just a few others here. No one---I repeat, no one---who grew up in a tenement neighborhood wants the same for their kids.

The only people who make these kinds of posts---and I'm not judging here, I'm just pointing out the truth---are kids who feel like they were "born too late," so they tend to look at the world through the eyes of a revisionist.



And this is spot-fucking-on. I'm six or seven years younger than Chazz Palminteri, but I grew up a whole three blocks away from him. He grew up on 187th, right off Cambreleng. I grew up on 187th and Hoffman.

If you ever run into him, ask him if he wants to move back there today, even if the neighborhood was still Italian (which it most certainly isn't). He'll laugh at you and tell you that he's quite content on his farm up in Bedford.

I find it extremely hard to believe that people have went from having to go outside to shit in a hole to having HDTV and iPad's all in the space of less than 50 years.

The world moves so fast.

I guess you've never been to West Virginia.

If that were the case the Mafia should have disappeared some time ago.

That is simply PRECISELY why it IS disappearing.

Bensonhurst was a tad different, you lived in a city but had a small back yard. You can actually have a good childhood there. Same with howard beach.
Bensonhurst section of brooklyn was actually a cool place.

Would you New York guys consider Queens a "suburban" area similar to Staten Island or is it more similar to The Bronx and Brooklyn?

Howard Beach seems to be one of the few strongholds left, something like 50% Italian.

Anyone mention Dyker Heights?

Queens is mixed, Nicky. Some parts, like Howard Beach, are very suburban. Other parts, like Astoria, are more urban.


And please stop Googling demographics, Nicky. Please .

I got that number from the Howard Beach website Would you say that number is wrong?

It's not the number that frightens me, Nicky. It's your obsession with wanting it to be 1976. And you weren't born until 1996!

Don't get me wrong I wish it was 1976, but I'm in no way obsessed. The thread is about Italian areas in New York and all I did was post an Italian area with the demographic.

I'm just having some fun with you, Nicky. You know that. And trust me, forty years from now you're going to wish it was 2014 .

I can't deny that!

Thanks, Pizza. We are the only two holdouts left, I think.

New to the board..had to comment on the last italian neighborhoods..one poster mentioned this area earlier, but I believe the middle village-glendale-ridgewood corridor gets overlooked. Obviously, the area is changing but this is one of the few areas where you could go an entire day without speaking english. Still plenty of Italian bakeries shops, cafes, etc.. there was a last strong wave of Italian immigrants who settled around Bushwick in the 60s up to the 80s and alot of them are still around. They just had a feast on fresh pond and you could still hear alot of Italian. .

Nothing stays the same....ever

Not to hijack the thread to Florida but I grew up in Hollywood. It was loaded with Italians from NY, NJ, PA etc. Back in 1970's there were at least five or six families on every block. My grandparents owned both houses on either side of us, across the street was an old guy from Italy named Rocky. there were at least five or six Italian specialty shops (and Hollywood is relatively small).

Miramar Fl was at least 50% or more Italian back in the 70's. My Wife went to Miramar high and every other kid has an Italian last name in her yearbook. They used to have a San Gennaro Feast in Miramar for years.

Now both Hollywood and ESPECIALLY Miramar are Jamaican, Haitian, and West Indian dominant.

You can tell when you drive though there. The houses are painted orange, pastel green and purple.....and the cut down all the trees.

Its all over. The best you can do is to try and teach a little of the culture (Italian) to your kids.

Sal

I knew I forgot something- The "San Gennaro" that they used to have every year in Miramar is now "The Caribbean Festival"....nice, huh?

its so sad.

You are so right. I was recently in this part of Queens, took my kids to a beautiful park in Middle Village. I was surprised to see so many Italians.

Reading your post reminds me of the song by Jerry Vale "Those Were the Days"

Dyker Heights is still largely Italian.

Queens is hard to classify as suburban. the western part features the largest housing project in the nation (queensbridge), lefrak city, and the third busiest intersection in the city (Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue, which resembles Beijing, except with more people).

East Flushing, Fresh Meadows and Bayside is where the suburbs start, and where I am from. The zoning laws were restrictive there and large complexes couldn't be built. Bayside and Whitestone look like Levitown or Hicksville. Astoria and Corona look like any Brooklyn neighborhood.

In the southern part by JFK are some middle class black neighborhoods, like Laurelton and Springfield Gardens.

Then there is the super Ghetto of South Jamaica (where 50Cent is from). Every time I need to get off the train there I am constantly looking over my shoulder. It's where the shower posse killed that cop while he was eating lunch in his patrol car.

Queens is too big to classify.

That's a nice thought.

But what about "All In The Family's" theme song. It was officially called "Remembering You", but all through the tune you hear the phrase "Those Where The Days".

I think the Archie Bunker version is a little closer to what this topic is all about.... Demographics, the value of a dollar, the roles of Men and Women and how they have greatly changed over the years.


Sal

I don't know but this Chicagoan just went to Taurmina ( or maybe Taurmino) on Mulberry Street and it was the worst Italian food I've ever had in my life!

I was once having a drink with a younger hood looking kind of guy in a bar in Brooklyn in the 90s and he said "Everyone romanticisez this place. It's a sh## hole."

What part of brooklyn?

Brooklyn:

East Williamsburg still has a small pocket which was traditionally Bonanno territory.

Same with Carroll Gardens/Redhook (Colombo) and Bensonhurst/Dyker/Gravesend (Gambino).

But yeah, these are just hold-outs.

But while there may not be new Italian families moving to Brooklyn, we still have all the great restaurants, pastry shops and specialty food stores! So I'm happy

PB, do you know the comedian Mike Destefano or any of his family? He passed away a few years ago, but heard a podcast interview with him a few years back where he talks about growing up in Throgg's Neck and his contact with various un-named wiseguys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_DeStefano

Yes, he used to play at the Marina del Rey for Angelo Prisco's annual spring dance. He was close to ten years younger than I am, but I remember him. He was a junkie, though. So he wasn't allowed in a lot of local places. But Angelo protected him a few times because he had a soft spot for him. His family claimed he had a heart attack. But he was only in his forties. I think he od'd. But that's just my personal opinion.

Food was good when Joe Butch owned it.

I believe he was also HIV positive. He talked about being at a club and the guy before him was on and one of his unnamed "friends" was throwing ice at the guy. When the manager went to say something Destefano said he stopped him and said, "you don't want to talk to that guy, he will literally kill you". So he was buddies with people with and or associated with the West Side? Very interesting. Had a feeling you'd know him.

No, he wasn't with anyone. But that was Prisco's stronghold back then. His club was in Westchester Square, but he was strong all over Pelham Bay and Throggs Neck.

As far as being "with" anyone, again, no. He was honestly just the type of peripheral hanger-on that I normally can't stand. You know, a bartender who works in a wiseguy joint, so he thinks he's half a wiseguy himself. Or a fucking garbage man who thinks he's a wiseguy because he wears his Teamsters jacket wherever the fuck he goes. These are guys who typically get hurt when they run into real wiseguys and run their mouths off.

But again, Angelo stuck up for him a couple times because he used to play his dance at the Marina every year. It was a harder ticket than a Yankee playoff game. But my family and I went every year he had it .

Ever been to Woodlawn? My kind of place.

Sorry, I wrote that weird. I meant to say he knew people associated with the West Side, not that he was actually with them himself. Interesting stuff. He also mentioned his brother being part of a stolen car ring. Also seemed very nervous to drop any names and was very careful not to.

I've talked about Woodlawn with you ad nauseam. My biggest regret in real estate is not buying a building on Katonah. Prime location, right next to the post office. This was maybe ten years ago, and I just wasn't sure if they were ready for an Italian owned real estate corporation taking over one of their properties. So two years later a fucking Albanian bought it for a song and made a fortune .

LOL sorry I make you nauseus. Forgot!

Was'nt that guy DeStefano the comedian that would walk on stage and then tell everyone " to get up and piss on the table "?
I remember he came out and had to be drunk and he did his whole routine while eating a sandwich. You couldnt even understand what he was saying, it was strange.

pizza, you ever hang out at the Nassau Bar downtown?!? I've been hanging out at it a lot lately and I'm actually posting this from there right now watching the Mets game for "lunch" LOL

for all my friends here not from the area, some background on the bar:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/nyregion/27nassau.html?referrer=

My girlfriend lives in the FiDi, I'll check it out.

You're a short walk away from the food court in battery park. Might Quinn's, num pang, best food court ever.

Dante, that place is right off fulton and nassau. It was operated by Big John, not sure if it still is he just went away for a couple of years and got out recently. My dad had a bar around the corner on Ann Street and would send me there to get a laugh. The bartenders would wear bikinis or skimpy outfits and I would be like 12. Before it was the nassau it was called Kenos. That was a great neighborhood, it sure has changed a ton

They've also rebuilt the seaport after sandy.

Fidi is becoming a popular destination for 20 somethings that want to stay in Manhattan. Cheaper rents.

Cowgirl seahorse has strong margaritas, good spot by the water.

Yeah, 2k for a studio instead of $2500. Let them stay wherever the fuck they were born. You have no idea how many blue-collar people have been driven out of Lower Manhattan. No idea whatsoever. But that's probably because you don't understand what it means to be blue collar anyway.

I'm not being deliberately mean, Mighty. You know I like you. A lot. But Lower Manhattan used to be as blue collar as some of the nicer parts of the Old Bronx. And you have no idea how much it annoys a true New Yorker to see this shit happen. No idea at all.

And I'm in real estate. Buildings that I fucking OWN with my family, and one of them is half a block from Washington Square Park. So if I feel this way, can you imagine how these poor families felt about getting chased from their own neighborhoods, where they've lived for generations, by a bunch of midwesterners and suburbanites who think they deserve a New York City birthright because they're gay or call themselves hipsters?

It's just a very sore point with me. It's nothing personal. Like I said, I like you a lot.

Nothing personal taken. My girlfriend was born in Staten Island, and her mom's from Brooklyn. So I feel like she isn't as bad as some of the others .

Believe it or not, I don't like gentrification, either. When I moved to NYC, I didn't even realize it was an issue. You know I lived in the EV. It's a joke now. People move their because they think it's grungy or something, but they're just being stupid. The EV is as safe as any neighborhood out there. The mystique is gone. It's all NYU kids and yuppies. I don't really understand the appeal of paying 1500 a month to live with three other people in a hundred year old building.

No offense, but the East Village changed before you even moved there. You may have caught the tail end of a few of the bars. But unless you lived there pre-2000, maybe even pre-1995, you still can't completely understand. But you're right in the fact that it's getting worse and worse (with these stupid, entitled kids).

Again, none taken. I knew it was already changed the month I moved in. It dawned on me pretty quick.

Yes, the LES began changing in the early to mid 90s. My dad had a bar on 9th between 1st and A, which came in very handy for my underage drinking back in like '88, not that it was too hard to get into other places in those days.

There was Alcatraz, the Pyramid, the Lismar Lounge, Nightingales, Downtown Beirut. Great music and good times. Polish coffee shops where you could eat like a pig for $5.


That NY is gone, replaced by a yuppie Disneyland for wankers from Nebraska. The kids that live there now would shit themselves if they had to cross tompkins square park circa 1988.


Now get off my lawn! *shakes cane*

I thought you were much older. That's a compliment, by the way.


Veselka isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But they've gotten pretty expensive, given the menu.


You got that right .

Never went to veselka, but I've heard great things. Union square cafe had to move due to rising rents. The bodegas are closing. There is a 7-11 in alphabetical city now, which really tells you everything you need to know.

My favorite bar was destination on 13th and A. It was a great dive bar. Half prices EVERY day until eight. Had some good Sundays there.

Closed

It's Alphabet City. Christ, you are a Yuppie .

Don't take offense Mighty healthy, I'm laughing with you, not at you. I swear!




thank you for the compliment. Like all women I need a regular supply of shoes and compliments.


I'm smack in the middle of my 40s. But like all city kids I'm very mature for my age


My parents divorced when I was a kid and for years my dad lived in the city on 12th between 5th and 6th, while we were in Brooklyn so we had the best of all worlds NY-wise. It was a different city and what's happened to it is depressing.

Damn auto correct might have got him

How about the ODESSA. Now closed I think.

I was at Nightingdales and Pyramid alot for hardcore/punk shows.

Last time I heard the Italian language being spoken in NYC was in Whitestone, Queens. There is a section called "Malba" where the fire hydrants are painted red/white/green to symbolize the flag. The Bocci courts at Francis Lewis Park are always filled with Italian guys speaking the language.

Also fishing on the shoreline you may hear some Italian speakers. Last time I heard two Italian guys fishing near Cresthaven and yelling at some security guard to leave them alone in an italian/english mix. It was great.

Yep. Post on my phone, son of a bitch!

I had it somewhat similar childhood. I grew up in Belmont (187th and Hoffman). But my Dad was from East Harlem, and when they died, my grandparents were among the last Italian immigrants left in the neighborhood. They lived on Pleasant Avenue, just off 118th. They lived until the late '80s, so I spent thirty years going back and forth. My Dad's going on 86 and he's still on the Giglio at Mount Carmel, so we're still there a few times a year. But forget about that neighborhood altogether today.

Then there was my favorite uncle who owned a building on Baxter Street, directly opposite the back entrance of Most Precious Blood, and another building on West 8th Street, which I currently co-own. So you can see my close affiliation with the Downtown area, and how much the changes have saddened me. I've spent almost 56 years in and out of these neighborhoods. It breaks my heart.

Then there was my uncle in East New York on Pacific Street. We spent one Sunday a month there. I loved it there. But even back then in the '60s and '70s, East New York was already starting to change. You see, on my Dad's side, there were eleven brothers and sisters on his Dad's side, and they immigrated one or two at a time, so they ended up all over the place. My Mom's side pretty much just settled in the Bronx.

How many Italians you got left in throggs neck, PB? apologize if you've answered this before.

Drove by the new trunp links in the bronx. Anyone play there? Looks nice.

Big John still owns it.......he comes around

Its still a bikini bar with GREAT barmaids and amazing prices. It is a dump and is what is left of what I would imagine "Old New York" to be as I'm only 30, like I said I've been hanging out at it a lot the past 2 years!

How does a nice Bronx boy like yourself end up a Mets fan? It must have been the source of much schoolyard strife when you were a kid



Dyker Heights, where I was born and raised is even changing now. Lots of Asians. Still many Italians, but definitely changing.

Pizza, you know I'm a New Jerseyan that works in Midtown Manhattan, but A LOT of the old timers I talk to that OWNED their places sold them and made a fortune and thats what was the catalyst to spring generations of their families out to the suburbs of Jersey, Staten Island, Connecticut, Westchester, Etc

^^ in some areas yes, that's true, but that's less likely for people in alphabet city or the LES. These were mostly rental areas, walk up tenements, pretty low income.

That's okay, I've had to explain that here a few times before. As I said, my Dad was from Harlem, where the Polo Grounds were located and the Giants played. They pulled out on him and headed west when he was close to thirty years old. He resented them for a long time for the move (although he was happy when they won three of the last five World Series because Bonds was gone and he hated him).

Anyway, like a lot of Dodgers fans (who suffered the same experience), in '62 he adopted the Mets. And he instilled it into me. And to ne honest, there are more Mets fans in the Bronx than you might think. I mean, it's probably no more than 15%, but we're here.

And I live five minutes from both the Throggs Neck and Whitestone Bridges. I can honestly make it to Citi Field faster than up to Yankee Stadium. That's why most of that 15% estimate that I mentioned mostly lives around Country Club and Throggs Neck.

But yeah, growing up around Fordham a Mets fan wasn't easy .

Those were the owners Dante, who were few and far between. The renters were the heart and soul of the old Italian-American and Jewish neighborhoods Downtown, and they got fucked beyond all get out.

Pretty much what I just posted above.

I know for a fact that back in Jersey, my neck of the woods, that ALL of the Italians in Hoboken sold their places and made hundreds of thousands or millions (depending on how late they held on) and still hold onto the neighborhood via having police and firefighter jobs in Hoboken making over 120K a year, now this is Hoboken and I know all of this as fact.

Pizza, you know I like you and hold onto you in the highest regard, so I was asking if this was the case downtown as well? Now I know the cops and firefighters aren't paid what they get paid in Jersey, but it seems a lot of families sold and made millions or hundreds of thousands downtown that moved their families out to the suburbs for generations as well?

PS you never answered my question if you've ever hung out at the Nassau Bar before (great Mets bar BTW) LOL???

Aw, he sounds just like my grandfather. He and my grandma followed that same path in baseball teams. So much so that when my grandmother died one of her floral arrangements was the Mets logo. You know guineas and our funeral flowers



Great minds etc

Not really. Like Helen and I both said, the heart and soul were the renters. And NYC fireman earn comparable money with overtime, but it's still impossible for them to afford Manhattan. One of my many gripes about gentrification. They can't live where they protect and serve. And that's obscene.


I've been there a few times. And like Padrone, I remember when it was Keno's. Different neighborhood now, though.

And I like you, too, Dante. You're a nice, respectful kid. And don't be insulted by kid. Anyone young enough to be my son will always be a kid to me .

Pizza, I have the utmost respect for you, that being said its nice to know that today and the past couple of years I have been sucking back suds in the same place that a young pizzaboy once did

and dont get me started on how much they pay cops and firefighters here in Jersey, Its UNBELIEVABLE. I wish I knew when I was choosing careers that I could become a cop in Jersey and make 120K-150K a year and then retire at 43 with an 80K a year pension...Madone!

That can't be everyone, Dante, that's way more than the avg cop in CT...