paul castellano hit

I know we've covered weather Castellano was gangster enough before and Im familiar with most of his documented criminal history including as far back as his 1934 Connecticut arrest following the bungled robbery, but I recently come across a story of him and Carlo Gambino beating a man to death with a baseball bat in 1933. The story has it that they killed a man .....? Ardino (Arduino??) who was a bootlegger infringing on Manganos rackets and it was paulie who was the one to go to bat on the guy, suitably impressing Vincent Mangano.
This is the first time I've come across information about Castellano or even Gambino being personally involved in a killing. Anyone else have any info or heard about this previously?

I think people have the wrong impression of Castellano. Sure its true he wasnt a street guy and was a "white collar criminal". However the guy had a bad temper and ordered more deaths than most bosses during his era. He ordered a guy dead just because the guy said he resembled Frank Perdue lol. I have also read some sories that Paul would order Gotti to a sitdown and Gotti would be pretty nervous about going. I havent heard about him being involved in a killing but he did commit robberies as a kid and went to jail when he refused to rat

I still think both have killed folks, Gambino was a sneaky bastard his whole life and it would be rare to get to the top without getting your hands dirty somewhere along the line.

Now by the time he became boss yes I agree Big Paul totally changed as he was trying to turn them legitimate in a way. But during the bootlegging days and shortly there after I think Paul and Carlo both were into major shit and both got dirty when they needed to.

Wasn't Carlo Gambino one of the alleged shooters of Joe Masseria?

No, I though it was Bugsy, Vito, Joe Adonis and Anastasia

I remember reading about how Gotti said to Scarfo, "I want you to know Nick that, I did this the right way!", implying that he got commission approval for the hit.

Now, if Gotti was telling the truth, who voted how?

The only obvious one to disagree seemed to be Gigante.

1985 Bosses:
Gigante: Voted NO.....Also wonder if Benny Squint had any input

Rastelli (aka Massino's voice): Probably said yes because he was BFF with John in 1985

Persico: I have no clue.... I do know that he was the ONLY one to vote NO for the Galante hit though.

Corallo: I have no clue BUT, have read that Casso apparently supported the hit and only denied it later on when asked......Someone also recently posted about Persico's close affiliation with Casso AND how they and their wives would go upstate together.

Scarfo: It appears that Gotti left Nick out of this decision

Accardo: I have no clue

Has anyone heard any concrete stuff on this topic?

if he didn't get the majority of the bosses approval, then he was not a legitimate boss. a lot of people feel he wasn't.

the most vocal being gigante.

Maybe the cops killed this Paul.

Bingo.


He was lying out of his ass.

I ain't so dumb .

Lol, Gotti did actually say that "maybe the cops killed him" statement. Based off that alone, it's obvious no one who had the authority approved that hit. It was family thing, and I think once it happened, the majority of the bosses just rolled with it, but were willing to follow Gigante's lead, as he ran the Commission at the time. Once once the bombing attempt failed and DeCiccio got it, I think Gigante just moved on. Probably knowing another dead mob boss wasn't good business during that time in NYC when LE really began to stick it to the families.

after gotti went to prison the plot was still in play..no doubt about it

I think Casso was more a danger too Gotti, than Gigante was.
He organised the car bomb, then whacked Lino, then Bobby Boriello.
A few months earlier Casso attended Gotti jrs wedding.
This guy was dangerous, sammy gravano refused to testify against casso!

Didnt Bruno Indelicati also try and whack Gotti?

Casso says he did the car bomb in cahoots with Gigante, knowing Gigante felt Gotti had violated Cosa Nostra rule by killing a boss. The other killings were mostly in response to that attempt as Gotti found out and sent Hydell & Co. to kill Casso.

Never heard of the Bruno Idelicato thing.

What's this I hear about Sammy refusing to testify against Casso? How's that possible? Didn't Casso flip like a year or two later anyway?

I think Chin was pulling the strings. PB and those guys would know more, but I really think this is the case. Don't think Casso was the brains behind it.

I agree, gigante all the way. too bad he didn't get him.

Gotti's co-conspirators spoke to Casso and Amuso, as well as Genny Lang from the Colombos (who was tight with Angelo Ruggiero). The Genovese weren't consulted at all; the Bonnanos had no vote on the Commission until the Gotti period, but Big Joey may have known beforehand.

I've always read that Hydell and company were killed due to Casso's beef with Mickey Boy Paradiso.

Which raises an interesting question...How does the prosecution tell the jury ''everything they say in that room is true except that line about castellano, that one we know he's lying about''

And it was the Castellano murder that buried him right ??

No. Gotti was doomed either way. They had him on three other murders due to wiretap evidence, along with all the other typical racketeering stuff. The Castellano hit wasn't even part of the original indictment, it was a way to throw the Southern District of NY a bone in what was an Eastern District case.

Oh yeah, the DiBi and Dibono wiretaps ?? I stand corrected...Good job LG !!

Thanks LurkerGuy

If Gotti had all those guys contacted, except the Genovese, why'd he continue to cover his ass? Wouldn't he then have the majority of the Commission vote, with the Lucchese's and Colombo's siding with him against the Chin? Bonanno's had no say anyway, so Massino's thought didn't matter. We know the Lucchese's sided with Gigante when he wanted Gotti hit, and even participated. The Colombos had they're own problems, but I just dont see why Amuso and Casso would be for the Castellano hit, only to pussy out when it got deep and someone had to pay. They knew who the real boss was, why not tell Chin to screw himself and hit him on one of his public walks later on down the line.

Amuso wasn't the boss during either the Castellano or DeCicco killings; Corallo was still free and in charge.

True true. But, it's a very tight timeline at this point. Either Corallo okayed the Gotti Hit, or he couldn't care less because he knew he was going to jail.

Wouldn't surprise me either way; Tony Ducks supposedly despised Gotti. I don't think Gotti expected a move so fast, I think he was planning on Gigante acting through the Commission and tried to use the other families to sideline him.

As said, the timeline is tight. And everything I've read says Gigante went to Amuso and Casso and told them to plan the hit. The implication is they were running things at the time, some sources say Corallo had already chosen Amuso as his sucessor before he was convicted because of his closeness to Christie Tick. I dont know how that coincides with the Buddy Luongo hit, as D'Arco claims thats who Corallo really wanted to be his successor but Amuso and Casso had him killed.

Not that tight. Castellano was killed in December 85, DeCicco in April 86. The trial didn't even begin until September of 86.

According to Raab, the hit was planned one month after Castellano's killing. Chin didn't meet with the dynamic duo, he met with Tony Ducks and then Christy Tick filled the two in after.

Truth is that Gotti knew he could never win a war with the Genovese Family. Gotti's big gripe with Paul was that Paul sided with the Chin and against Gambino members. Lino, Boriello, DeCicco, were all killed by the Westside with no real retaliation. Bobby Manna was even heard on tape wanting to kill John and Gene! Jimmy Brown and Danny Marino were with Chin and were against John. The FBI and the media were alway's following JG and this was 24/7 365, and this was the reason he was not also hit. John could of sent a crew to hit Chin but he never did. Had John ever tried to kill the Chin I think that has own family would have hit JG before it happened. Gotti had a crew of killers while Vincent had a ARMY of Killers. JG was not BOSS material. His own words convicted him and he died in prison because of it. Gravano was only used to humiliate him. Vincent was a BOSS for 25 years, JG hit Paul 12/85 and was gone forever by 1992. JG was in jail awaiting trial more then he was free during that time.

Okay, I had to refresh my memory, DeCiccio supposedly went to Casso asking him his view on Big Paul, according to Gravano, Casso told DeCiccio "he didnt give a fuck about Big Paul". Either way Casso wasnt in the position to be sought out for a murder plot against a boss as he never told Furnari of his convo with Deciccio. After Castellano was killed, Gigante & Corallo were furious, they both decided Gotti had to go. Jimmy Brown and Danny Marino, Gotti's capos, were in on the plot. Another indication that Gotti never actually inquired about murdering Castellano, was the fact that he told the other bosses that he had guys looking into who did it. Corallo and Gigante thought it was bull. They gave the hit to Casso and Amuso who planned it out. So yeah, Corallo was the boss at the time and okayed the hit. Casso had expressed indifference when originally was approached by DeCicco.