Organization or way of life

I recently read Bonannos biography and he kept repeating that Cosa Nostra is not an organization in the military sense of the world, but it's rather a culture, a way of life. Same way to be a mafioso is not to be a soldier or a captain, but rather a way to carry yourself. I'm currently reading the Five Families and some of the quotes from early investigations repeat this thought.

So, what do you guys think about this? Maybe it's a stupid philosophical question, but it makes me wonder. It seems like the cooperating guys often miss the way of life and at the same time talk about the resentment of no honor and everyone breaking the rules. Of course they sing to save their asses, but you get the idea. Is the problem of Cosa Nostra (and gain of society) a lack of organization and too much personal freedom? Is it too much of a lifestyle and not a tight organization? I guess the reason why the mob is popular for fiction is the fascinating culture of it, and I'm sure that's why most of us are here.

In the old days it was a brotherhood , no it's not our thing it's my thing . Times have changed young guys want everything and they want it yesterday , they have no respect for anyone , most of them r drug dealers and users because it's the quickest easiest way to make money plus u don't need brains

Agreed. The drug dealing destroyed the Mafia as Bonanno knew it. Today, or let me rephrase it...from the 1950s and on, the Mafia is almost synonymous with drug dealing. Although drug dealing doesn´t seem to be the major income for them nowadays. It´s been a while since NY members were caught dealing heavy drugs like heroin.

In Sicily and in Italy it's a way of life. In America it's a organization, and a collapsing organization at that. The End.

I have always compared the relationships between the members in the old Mafia to relationships between members in a traditional Sicilian blood family. Bonanno, when he talks about a culture, a way of life, his words are influenced by the culture of the old Sicilian ways, with roots in the old feudal society. The old Sicilan Mafia, of course, was a a mirror image of this society but a great part of it was lost when the Mafia was americanized. That´s why, perhaps, you who are more new to this can´t understand what Bonanno is talking about because you´ve missed the gap between the old Mafia and the Mafia of today.

See my post just above yours, HK.

I could be wrong of course because I´m definitely not an expert on todays Sicilian Mafia. But I would bet that the Mafia in Sicily, just like the Italian sociaty as a whole and societies in the western world generally, is getting more and more americanized.

Agreed. But it will still outlive the American mob (and that's not to suggest that the American mob is closing up shop any time soon).

I see that the consensus is that the culture is dead. This is good news for Americans. I would challenge a little bit though the lack of brotherhood and their values. I can't imagine working with a guy for years and decades without feeling something for him. I think the reason that mob still exists is only because the culture isn't completely dead, I'm sure there are people who still feel ok in it. I imagine they'd all walk off if it was as dead as everyone says it is.

As I posted in an earlier thread, my gf is Corsican and I hope they and Italy will soon discover the RICO. I hope they lose the organization, but hopefully not the culture and spirit. There's a lot of good in that.

Of course. I fully agree.

The reason it still exists isn't for warm fuzzy feelings for their brother soldier, its for money and the extraordinary greed that goes with it.

Oh I didn't know that, I thought these were fuzzy guys.

The fact that there are old timers and old guys who come back to this from prison indicates that it has something other than greed. This post is stupid because it's so obvious, I'm sorry.

The old timers come back because this is the only life they ever knew and because greed doesn't know age...sorry...yes they may happen to feel deeply for one or another fellow soldier, but the mob is about money...period.

Relax. Take a deep breath. At the end of the day, they're all fucking criminals. And I think that's all that oldschool3 was trying to say.

If we're all judged by the sum total of what we do with our lives, the fact that some Mafiosi are dedicated to their criminal brothers will do very little to offset the fact that they've committed crime after crime all their lives.

And welcome to the board, Belette .

Yes, you are right. I'm just saying that greed doesn't keep that or any other organization together. Has to be something else. Otherwise we would have rats after getting a 3 year sentence.

Hey, very nice to meet you Pizzaboy. Believe it or not, I'm the guy who checked the whole message board history with all interesting topics. It took me probably a few weeks to go though it all. I have a very good idea what has been discussed on this board, but I'm new and stupid still

Welcome and enjoy. And don't sell yourself short,sometimes I'm old and stupid.

Too bad what the new generation is doing to not only the mob but the world. Lotsa you guys talk about the decline of LCN in the states. How long you guys think American LCN will be able to survive?

It will survive as long as there is a desire for easy/fast money..the question is how long will it survive as currently constructed...and that is very debatable...I believe that in the next 25 years that only NY and possibly Chicago will have enough of a depleted Italian population to continue as is; but then again, the criminal element is a resilient bunch.

That's more of what I meant - how long will they continue to operate the way they were and are constructed today. Lets not forget the 6th family though. I believe the LCN in Canada has a better chance of surviving the test of time over any family in NY but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you Lou!

It seems to be a way of life with the few guys at the top treating it like a business.

God Damn!

And welcome.

The core issue with LCN, what is its greatest strength and a core current weakness is that it pertains values stronger than just a criminal organisation.

It 'offers' community, self respect, honour, family, history and the opportunity to be part of something greater. A purpose.

Everyone cant be a brain surgeon. So for those that werent born with those abilities, those lacking or on the bottom end of the spectrum, it 'offers' success and respect for those who couldnt otherwise attain that via regular means in society.

And thats a point worth pondering.

What about the guy who wasnt born smart, intelligent but wants, like us, to have a rich, successful, respectful life?
Why should he be condemned to ditch digging purely out of genetic disposition (or social/economic means) that is no fault of his own?

LCN could, maybe historically have offered a semblance of honour/respect in theory for those who wanted success in life, but were born (genetically or socially) without the means.

These ideals are now gone. If they ever existed.

But that concept, for those on the harder side of life, true or not, will always be appealing. Until they learn the truth.

Though gone, its a concept worth consideration. And maybe there isnt a black and white here.

The world is FULL of grey.

But end of day, though worth musing, that's all it will be...

Long before the internet and before the mafia media darlings (scarfo, gotti), it would be very easy for someone to justify their desire to become part of LCN because, there was very little "available" information to deter someone from joining. In the 50s, 60s and part of the 70s, guys still maintained their code of honor, even if it was a facade. And, the neighborhood kid had nothing else to go by, except his own observations.

But, don't get it twisted, LCN is very much gang mentality. It's completely americanized over here and now rooted 100% in greed. The sad thing is that most of america, banking, real estate, health care, construction, etc., is modeled on extreme capitalism. Which, also is rooted in greed.

And, if you are "chosen" to become a member, in todays age, it's 100% based on your earning potential. And you are joining for the comfort of knowing you can operate your criminal activities with zero impunity from your peers AND if someone tries to take it from you, the family is there for you.

In essence, the family extorts its own members. It's a pyramid scheme where you kick UP to be protected.

Nicky you got to include another Mafia Darling there, Joey Merlino!

Absolutely.

As is all OC.

But the question is what draws people to LCN specifically.

Hence my answer.

Years ago it was out of poverty, tradition and a desire to be part of something bigger than yourself.

Today it's David Chase and Martin Scorsese that draws people to the life .

HA!

Scorcese did the departed which was about the IRISH mafia!


I believe as they say in the classics.. Scorecheck, PB zero, Sonny, 1.

Whats that? Is that my Laurels be calling for a resting?


(If it means anything PB, I think Im funny. )

Sonny ya gotta be kidding, ever heard of goodfellas?

I'm glad you think so, Sonny .

In your own words, Me chuckles .

Hey PB threw something your way on PM

Gotcha .

Italy doesn't need RICO (they already have an equivalent; modified, as several provisions of RICO would undermine the civil rights laid out by the Italian constitution) The issue in Italy isn't the legislation it's the widespread corruption that prevents the laws being effectively utilized. Really what Italy needs is a way to hold its public servants accountable to the people... Actually most everywhere needs more laws like that.

it's a slippery slope, though, when you start deciding that certain people re not entitled to certain rights because they belong to "X" or "Y" group.

Or do you simply take that right away from everyone? Does the need to prosecute a tiny minority of criminals outweight the need for rights of the law abiding many?

I think this is a question many Americans will be asking themselves soon as well. Perhaps not specifically about RICO, but certainly the need for law enforcement and other public servants to be held accountable for their actions.

Seriously..

Ditto...period!!

The power of mafia obviously lies in integration with the rest of the society.I suppose the death of the social clubs reflects the death of the mob. I understand that in the old days the social clubs were a big part of the neighborhood culture. With them (and the Italian neighborhood)gone, I guess it's not possible to be part of the neighborhood in this sense. To a degree.

The death of the social clubs was purposeful...in particular, Joey Massino ordered all the Bonanno social clubs closed due to the ease of surveillance for the FBI. But more to your point, the death of the all Italian neighborhoods has been a real blow to the mob. The local capo and his crew could always count on the insulation a friendly (or fearful) population...now that has disappeared to a great extent, especially in the smaller cities....all the little Italys are either gone or just a single street of restaurants anymore. On the other hand, it has forced the crews to be more cautious and secretive.

Baltimore has at least one active social club..buffalo, from what I hear has a few "after hour clubs"

Baltimore has no LCN...maybe some freelancers, but no family.

Baltimore has Mayor Carcetti

There are many that are freelancing these days ,with the La Cosa Nostra disorganized the hundreds of associates and shelved made guys(They did not all of a sudden become upstanding citizens.)

They are in the suburbs, beach towns,Etc.
The way native New Yorkers talk about the Italian neighborhoods disappearing,it is easy to run a racket under the radar.(In suburbs compared to intercity)When everyone is so spread out, that there is no sidewalk talk and social clubs like back in the day where that info would come around much faster.

I have not herd of one person being extorted in my area since the 90's . Of course i am talking about connected people, or old shelved guys.These people are still doing there thing ,just not organized. And if not mistaken this also does not allow the law to use rico as easy as an organized crime group.

There are so many that still get extorted if they were on record when Scarfo was in. Skinny is such a ass he was and does go after businesses and rackets that Nick had, that are in Skinnys blood family.The money he gets from them alone can afford that life he is living (That no one can figure out were he is getting cash) .