Detroit LCN

Is it correct that Jackie the Kid has taken over as boss of Detroit? How many made guys are left in that family

Depends who you ask. But if you ask here, it's gonna get colorful .

Some people think the family is extinct and others think its still viable?

That's pretty much it. If you put Tocco or Detroit into the search feature, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm from the Bronx. What the Hell do I know about Michigan?

I'm from Scotland, what the hell do I know about Detroit? Hence why i'm asking

Well it won't get as messy as a NY vs chicago thread but let's see how this pans out.
I'm also from NY btw, so I have no info either. Sorry...

Scott D is our most respected Detroit Area poster and according to him the young Jackie took over and they have around 30 made guys, I personally believe him but its highly debated just about everywhere

I personally think the Detroit mob is a tight nit viabley structured family , I know some on here think that a lack of prosecutions pretty much means the family is extinct , but I don't believe that at all , it may well be true with the majority of the smaller families but I don't believe it to be true with the Detroit mob . I think they r a really well set up organised family , they r set up pretty much in the same way as the genovese family , ruling panels insulating the administration

Ruling Panels?

Jack Tocco ran the family for 30+ years with Giacalone his front/street whatever for half that.

You dont get MORE of a formal structure than that.

So are these guys, if viable, even making any cash anymore? Hard to fathom some mid level gambling is worth a RICO

They had Jackie the kid as a street boss and theyhad buffers including Anthony tocco , Vito giacalone and Antonio ruggiero insulating the administration

Ruling panels are generally 'in place of' (Due prison, death) a formalised structure, not in conjuction with or in use as a buffer system.

May seem semantic but its an important distiction that needs pointing out.

Good point sonny , I'm just stating that the admn was insulated hence maybe the lack of prosecutions , not the fact that a lack of prosecutions meant the family was not viable

Jack Giacalone has been the boss of Detroit for a year or two before Jack Tocco passed on. Before that Giacalone was the street/acting boss for Detroit. Still a family with nearly 30 members, but less then 20 members still fully or semi active Imo.

I'm from Detroit and I probably know as much as the guy from Scotland. Anyways, they are definitely around but in my opinion they must stick to lower key activities like gambling, extorting the strip clubs, some white collar activities. If they were involved heavily in drugs or riskier activities there would be more prosecutions. Also, the fact that it is a small group of guys (with lots of blood ties) has helped keep them safe.

Detroit is so low key it hard to know, but with jack gone we may get more information.

That's not strictly true Sonny, Joey Massino kept a ruling panel in place while he was still a boss out on the street. I can think of other examples of a ruling panel being in place to protect the boss.

The attached article at the first of the thread says that Tucco's ceremony for being made boss was photographed by the FBI. Has anyone seen these photos?

Sorry wrong thread- was referring to thread about Tucco passing away

Yes he officially took over not too long ago, good thing too. Tocco died yesterday, I will see if I can find a chart for you.

Here is a tidbit on the Inauguration

Underworld sources confirm that an inauguration ceremony for newly-appointed Detroit mafia boss Jack (Jackie the Kid) Giacalone, 63, has taken place since the beginning of the year in a Motor City restaurant, similar to the one that was held for his predecessor Giacomo (Black Jack) Tocco, 87, at a posh hunting lodge near Ann Arbor exactly 35 years ago last month.

More than one highly-placed street source, tells The Mob Insider that the ceremony, attended by all the crime family’s capos and high-ranking members, took place at an eatery in Eastern Market, which seems appropriate considering the region’s gangland-rich history and the Giacalones’ roots there specifically, both dating back more than 100 years.

Reports of Tocco, the longest-tenured LCN don in the United States, stepping aside and tabbing Jackie the Kid his official replacement – following a two-year stint as acting boss –, surfaced in the spring.

Locations mentioned as possible venues for the inauguration were Vivio’s Bar & Grill and The Roma Café or both.

Here you go...

Detroit LCN 2014

Administration

Boss – Jack “Jackie the Kid/The Bathrobe” Giacalone
Underboss – Anthony “Chicago Tony/Tony Lop/The Loli-Pop” La Piana
Consiglieri – Anthony “Tony Pal/The Butterfly” Palazzola
Street Boss – Peter “Specs/Blackie” Tocco
Counselor emeritus: Giacomo “Black Jack” Tocco(Deceased), Joseph "Joe Hooks" Mirabile, Dominic "Uncle Dom" Bommarito

Capos

David “Davey Donuts” Aceto
Joseph “Joey Jack/Joe Vine” Giacalone
Joseph “Joe the Hood” D’Anna
Paul “Big Paulie” Corrado
Antonino “Tony the Extermintor” Ruggirello (coming out of retirement for short-term stint until La Piana names an official successor as boss of his crew, the former Meli crew)

“Soldiers”

Anthony “Tony Z” Zerilli (inactive/shelved)
Vito Tocco
Salvatore “Mops/Junior” Tocco
Jack “Little Jackie/Miami Jack” Tocco, Jr. (part of the year in FL)
Anthony “Nino/Smitty” Tocco
Anthony “Little Tony/Little Tawncy” Tocco, Jr. (part of the year in FL)
Joseph “Joe T” Tocco
Peter “Fat Pete” Corrado
Peter “Baby Bull” Corrado
Paul “Cousin Paulie/the Fixer” Corrado
Anthony “Nino” Corrado
Dominic “Chicago Dom” Corrado (CHI-NW IN)
Joseph “Joe White” Giacalone (Flint)
Jack “Jackie the Nose” Giacalone (FL)
Vincent “Vinnie Jack” Giacalone
Dominic “Fat Dom” Rubino
Peter “Petey Boy” Messina
Joseph “Jo Jo” Messina
Joseph "Joe the Clipper" Barbara, Jr. (semi-retired, sometimes looked to for counsel by admin)
Dominic “Big Dom” Vivio (shelved-PITT)
Frank “Frankie the Bomb” Bommarito (semi-active)
Robert “Bobby the Animal” La Puma
Gerard Di Michelle
Sam Ventilmiglia (TX)
Anthony Rugerio
Patrick Rugerio
Antonio “Toto” Ruggirello
Anthony “Little Tony Long” Cimini, Jr.
Anthony “Little Tony Razz” Randazo Jr,
Girolamo “Mimmo” D’Anna
Salvatore “Sparky” Palazzola, Jr.
Vincenzo “Vinnie Meatballs” Bronzino
John “Johnny Bananas” Sciarotta
Joseph “Joe D” Di Stefano
Eugene “Genie Boy” Baratta
Joseph “Joey the Trash Man” Tringali
Isodoro “Teddy San Diego” Matranga (CAL)
Peter “Pete the Clown” Leonardo
Louis “Butch” Stramaglia
Greektown Mike Katranis (in charge of Greektown)
William "Billy Lee" Loiacano (FL-inactive)
Joseph "Joe Gravel" Gargalino (FL-Retired)

What a bunch of low-life garbage. I wonder how there peanut-butter pretzel rackets going?

Was this an attempt at comedy?

You might want to put a bit more thought into it before you hit enter next time.

Incorrect. Joe Massino never had a ruling panel whilst out on the street.

Yeah, I never heard of him having a panel.

That is more the Genovese forte.

There were 29 members cited back in the big 1996 bust. 5 years later, in 2001, one article cited 30 members. So it's highly unlikely they have 40, 50, or more members today like some charts show. Even if they have been making new members in recent years, they almost certainly have not been able to keep up with the 20+ members or possible members who have died since 2000. If you look at the cases, what few there have been, what's left of the family is into bookmaking and some loansharking. Possibly some card games still. As well as whatever legit businesses they have. I've seen nothing about extortion of strip clubs, let alone the street tax that led to the 1996 case. And they have virtually no involvement in drugs. No labor union racketeering that I can see either.


The mafia has a strict hierarchical structure, law-enforcement officials said, and it has proven capable of finding new soldiers. Even after imprisonment of senior leadership, it survives, and in some places thrives, though most experts agree that its operations are now largely confined to its traditional bases in the Northeast and Chicago.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704115404576096392318489246

So, Scott Burnstein...who has written several critically acclaimed books and has done articles and videos for reputable news sites, just made up some names and put them on a list out of nowhere?

I forgot, Ivyleague of the internet is the end all be all.

No, he didn't make up names. But I do think he compiles these charts which include guys who it really hasn't been verified are made. In other words, he includes not only members but just about anyone who could possibly be a member. It's why his charts have varied so much going back to 2006. I figure he does the best he can with what he has to work with, and he does provide info that we wouldn't have otherwise, but his throwing every name up on those charts (showing anywhere from 30-60 members) has led to a lot of confusion and arguments. It seems those who want Detroit to have 40 or 50 members are quick to put all their eggs in the Burnstein basket and ignore everything else.

This must have been what Pizzaboy warned me about, I've opened Pandora's box.

I happen to know that they inducted 20 guys or so since 2000. Jackie the kid is a no nonsense kind of guy with a lot of people around him, especially the guys in Canada. If anybody tries to challenge him he'll give the nod to the hitters in Winsdor and it's over. The Florida, Texas, and California guys have all fallen into line already and mark my word are sending up very nice envelopes to John. The old man was sharp but was getting a little senile in his last few years and he knew that if he didn't give up power to John before he croaked their would be a war with a lot of bodies being left out onto the streets. Lets just hope the government doesn't waste their time on some respectable Italians and actually goes after the real criminals in congress instead.

Thats where you are wrong. I don't "want them to have 50 or 60 members" I could care less how many members they have, they could have 5, or 500 and it would make no difference to me.

But when it comes to whos word I tend to lean towards when it comes to Detroit information, I take Scotts word as he has FBI contacts in Detroit and other sources as well, and isn't some random BS artist poster from Detroit that pretends to be in the know to seem cool.

I think Ivy is pretty close to the mark. When Scott makes those lists he includes made guys, guys he thinks might be made,and guys he knows are not made, but are players in the family, including some non-Italians.

In addition to Scott, there are two other people who occasionally post that are from the Detroit area, and who seem fairly knowledgeable. When you read someones posts for a long period you can usually tell who's full of it, and both these guys seem pretty legit. Both of them feel that the Detroit family has 28-30 made guys, and that 8-10 of them are old and retired or semi-retired. This was before Tocco died, implying at most 20 active made guys, maybe a couple less.

As far as them making 20 guys, there is no indication of that. Scott himself says that Tocco made a batch early in the century when he go out of prison, and another batch in 2006-2007. He believes that they have not made any since then.
He recently posted that there are a half dozen guys that are sons or nephews of made guys that could be made, but that they are short of other suitable recruits.

As far as them being under the radar. There is some indication that the local papers report gambling type arrests as individual arrests, rather than connecting them to the Detroit Family. Beyond that, to say that they are involved in drugs, extortion, or street tax and are so clever that they never get arrested is ridiculous.

If you run a drug operation long term, people get arrested. There is no such pattern of arrests. Obviously this does not preclude individual made guys from financing drug buys from a safe distance, but they could not be running them without arrests, period.

At least theoretically you could collect from strip clubs and
independent bookies as long as it was low key, not too much money, and actually offered a service, IE protection from anyone else in the case of strip clubs, or an effective layoff service to the bookies. Even that would have to be semi-voluntary with moderate amounts, or someone would get scared and go to the fed, and there would be arrests. There have been no such arrests.

If you look at the whole of what little we know, these guys mostly own legitimate or semi-legitimate businesses, mainly bars,restaurants,strip clubs, car dealerships and construction companies. They run gambling and low key shylocking operations and probably launder some of the money through their businesses. Individual made guys may well be involved in other things, but if their was a lot more going on there would be more arrests.

IMHO I think IVY is placing a little too much emphasis on lack of OC identified arrests in the case of Detroit, because they are certainly a unique family in many ways. Nonetheless I see no evidence from any credible source that he is very far off, either. Even Scott says that he doesn't see a long term future for this family due to a lack of suitable recruits. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary I would genuinely like to hear it.

Best post on this family in a long while.

It isn't just Detroit, its any family.

His motto is, if there aren't a bunch of indictments...and or the feds didnt say it...it isnt true.

Good post overall though.

I don't find it hard to believe there are close to 40 made guys though, but I could be off.

I don't think he made 20 guys, I think it was like 3-5 each ceremony...

and Jackie will probably make the other 5 within a year or 2 now that Tocco has passed and the decision is his alone.

But again, that is just me speculating.

You happen to know they have inducted 20 guys since 2000? Sure you do, pal.



You say you don't care one way or the other but why do you ignore all the other evidence and just go with what Scott says? It's because you're happy to have him spoon feed you what you want to hear. What about "most experts" mentioned above in that article that tend to think the mob's presence is confined primarily in the Northeast and Chicago today? You completely ignore them. There isn't close to the mob activity in Detroit today that even small families in New England or Philadelphia have and yet you still believe it has as many members as those families do. The feds had the family at a max of 30 members 15-20 years ago but you believe it's almost doubled in size since then, despite so many members dying off in recent years. You do care. Which is why you go with one source and nothing else.




Yup. It is any family. Because the same factors apply across the board. Detroit isn't "different" or "special" or knows how to stay "under the radar" anymore than another family does. Those are worn-out phrases used by internet posters who can't let their prized crime family go.

And one may be able to discount the lack of mob busts as not necessarily meaning much in the short term. But, over the long term, the evidence (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored. There's just little in the way to support these claims that what's left of the mob in Detroit has either the size of scope that some claim it does. We won't see another bust in Detroit like the one in 1996 again.

Because he has forgotten more about the Detroit mob than you know. That's why.

Why would I ever go with what you have to say over Scott? He has sources in Detroit. You have google.

Twenty years ago, pre-Internet, that would have sounded like he had a venereal disease.

Pssst. Ivy has Google.

"with a lot of bodies being left out onto the streets. "

This is starting to crack me up....he's said this in every post....

I'm sure he's been here before .

I'm sure. This place has lighter admission requirements than a gay bar.

Jesus what are you in some mafia sowing circle? This guys got dirt on every family in the us and canada.

It's true. I love this place, and I try to stick up for the mods and the owner wherever and whenever I can. But if we're living in a day and age where you can change your IP whenever you want with a free iPhone app, they they should really consider making this place "invite only."

Seems every city has its own private "TheArm"
I wonder why some of those guys don't take a shot at screenwriting. They have all of the creativity, but seem to lack in business acumen.

First, let me say that I am from New England. I don't know anything about Detroit but what I have read. Having said that, it seems to me that people have a tendency to distort both what Ivy actually says and what Scott Burnstein actually says.

Let's look at this from the angle of what the Feds have actually said, what Scott has actually said, and what Ivy's saying based on simple arithmetic.

In the mid 90's the Feds said that Detroit had 29 members. A few years later they were quoted as saying there were 30 members.

Scott said there were two making ceremonies roughly around 2001 and 2006. I don't
Remember exactly how many he said were made, but I THINK he said he THOUGHT
there were 4 or 5 each time.

Even if there were as many as 5 each time that is 10 new members in addition to the 30 quoted by the Feds. Quite a few of these guys have died in the last 13 years. 10 new guys would be barely enough to keep them at the 30 the Feds quoted 13 years ago. Maybe not even enough. Also remember that one of that roughly 30 is is a rat , one is shelved, and quite a few are very old and retired or semi- retired based on Scott's own information.

Based on simple math, it's hard to believe that there much more 30 and probably no more than 20 active, maybe less.

It could be that Scott's wrong, and others have been made, but if we are going to accept him as generally reliable, and I do, then it's hard to believe that both his street sources and his FBI sources missed a making ceremony.The Feds haven't said anything since 2001.

Now Scott did recently say that there are a half dozen sons and nephews of made guys that could be made in the near future. Maybe Jackie will make them. Maybe he will find other recruits and make them too.We don't know. It's speculation.

Speculation aside, it's hard to believe that there currently more than 30 made guys, give or take a couple, and hard to believe that there are more than about 20 active guys, give or take a couple. It's just math. I don' mean that in condescending way, and I'm not sure I'm right either. I don't know any more than you.

Excellent post! Welcome to the site Mack hopefully you stick around.

whatever IVY said is the way it is, END OF STORY

^lol. Polygamists' word is bond.

I just heard some very disturbing news today about the D'anna brothers. Seems they are importing some hitters from Terasani. The Winsdor and Hamilton guys have ties to them to so the kid doesn't know where their loyalties are, and they are the hitters the kid would rely on. It's worse than I even thought. This is going to be worse than 1930. Everyone better pack a lunch because this could get sticky.

Go find a sandpit to play in child.

Stop spreading bullshit. Troll somewhere else, the only joke here is you.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

durkadurka is history.

Holy shit that was intense.

First thing I thought after reading this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI

Holy shit
Can someone explain to me though what on earth "gorilla warfare" is?

Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which a small group of combatants such as armed civilians use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military

I thought he did a pretty decent enough job of trolling the folks he set out to troll. Good for him, I found him entertaining.

Better than the goofball regulars that pat each other on the back after corny inside jokes & lame pop culture references that miss by a mile anyways..

Huron,

This is not the first time that you have chimed in after the mods canned one of these thumb sucking idiots. You have some insightful stuff to share especially about Chicago why not stick with that?. If you have a problem with the mods talk to them personally about it and move on. Anyway I enjoy your Chicago posts.

Cmon, it was obvious he was trolling, and like the countless numbers before him, all the usual suspects ate the bate with reckless abandon (per usual).

"What!? There's no way you know any mob guys, Yeah right! Let alone multiple guys from multiple families in different cities! No way, Fuck You! Get out!"

It's like these guys are just waiting in the wings, ready to rip anyone's head off who defies popular opinion around these parts. Wasn't it obvious he was trolling? I dunno I thought it was. His posts were pretty humorous in their outlandishness too. His over the top threats as a response were the icing on the cake.

People around here take this mob shit way too fuckin seriously, they completely lose their wits when someone makes an outlandish claim. That durka guy obviously played into that & probably had a good laugh. Even his username was a (not so underhanded) jab against these guys.

Why can't I think that's funny?

You keep avoiding the question - why don't you also look at other evidence in regards to Detroit in addition to what Scott says (which changes much of the time, by the way)? Because he's the only one telling you what you want to hear.

And you can spare me the Google accusations. We all use Google. It's simply a tool to find additional sources instead of being spoon fed info by one guy.

YOU are truly a GOD amongst us lowly MEN!!...................................................................OR...... Maybe your just a douch??? YEP YER A DOUCH!!!!

then when the fbi says grand ave. still has a boss u say that they're wrong

u pick and chose which documented information u listen to for which argument you're in

i ain't saying detroit has a major mob (never really did) but they ain't being watched

the fbi in detroit are watching drug dealers, murderers, an asians, etc.

correct, but why do you think that is? let me throw you a bone...

the fbi units assigned to organized crime in any given area give priority to whatever groups warrant it, be it italians, russians, hispanics, blacks ect. if the fbi in detroit is not focusing on italians, that's because there just isn't much to focus on. let's not forget, that other than the evil terrorist boogeymen that the tv tells us are under every rock and behind ebery bush, nothing gets more headlines than a bust that can be linked to the "mafia". if there was a big bust to be made in detroit, bet your ass any state or federal law enforcement agency would be right there to make it! believe dat!

Word is bond, Homey.

FBI agents are assigned their cases. They don't get to pick and choose. Do you think DC is telling the local agents to spend years and millions of dollars to go after bookies or going after drug cartels and terrorists? There hasn't been a bust in Chicago in years. Maybe all the Outfit guys retired and are washing dishes for a living. Outside of the northeast the feds don't care about bookies. The government is all about justifying your budget. Try to justify spending $10 million to put some bookies in jail for 2 years. See how that flies with your bosses at the DOJ

thanks for making my point for me. like said, whatever criminal group in a certain region that is seen as a threat is going to take priority, so if the fbi in detroit hasn't spent much time going after the local mob, that pretty much says it all right there. as far as chicago, i believe the fbi squad focused on oc in that city is responsible for not only lcn, but eastern european groups as well. we have no idea what they are working on right now, for all we know something big could be in the works. or just maybe, the amount of street activity in chicago just isn't what some wish it was.

There's a lot of that going around. And to be fair, it's not just in Chicago.

Even in New York (and the Northeast in general), where the mob is still pretty viable, there are certain people who actually get angry when you tell them that it's not nearly what it used to be. I will never, ever, understand how some people have their self esteem tied into the strength of their local criminal underworld.

As for Detroit, it's like I always say: What do I know from those places? I'm from the frigging Bronx.

The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. But just having read a bit about them, I wouldn't completely discount all of those blood ties. And I personally don't think they're "extinct" for that very reason.