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biggest mob documentary bullshitter

Posted By: mulberry

biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 06:38 PM

Has to be Joe Pistone. From the $500,000 contract to the claims that he took down the entire Bonanno family, this guy is full of manure. How many guys actually went to prison as a direct result of his work? Maybe half a dozen low level mobsters? Pistone even takes credit for the Commission Case. He's still walking around with those stupid shades, as if someone is going to whack him over what he did 35 years ago.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: mulberry
Has to be Joe Pistone. From the $500,000 contract to the claims that he took down the entire Bonanno family, this guy is full of manure. How many guys actually went to prison as a direct result of his work? Maybe half a dozen low level mobsters? Pistone even takes credit for the Commission Case. He's still walking around with those stupid shades, as if someone is going to whack him over what he did 35 years ago.

I generally don't care for the documentaries to begin with. But I've always said that the so called open contract on Pistone was absolute bullshit. This ain't Sicily. The American mob would NEVER, EVER sanction such a thing. Because they know it would be tantamount to unleashing the Wrath of God on them. And the Commission was still sitting back then. No fucking way the other four bosses would allow it. NO .... Fucking .... WAY.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:04 PM

I remember watching a recent doco where Pistone was giving an interview whilst walking down a street somewhere in NYC and 'somebody' yells out "Fucking Rat!". And they had to 'hightail it outta there'

Talk about a set up. I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

I don't mind Pistone but he needs to give the act a rest. And for chrissakes lose the shades.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:08 PM

How about Jack Garica/Falcone, was he really proposed membership? I just started reading his book and, as well in his interviews, he comes across as a bit of an idiot. As mentioned above, a lot of these undercover FBI guys love to talk about how well they did damaging LCN so I'm pretty dubious that he could have been made.
Posted By: njcapo35

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
I remember watching a recent doco where Pistone was giving an interview whilst walking down a street somewhere in NYC and 'somebody' yells out "Fucking Rat!".
That was funny, he was standing in front of the Motion Lounge when that happened. lol
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: NE1020
How about Jack Garica/Falcone, was he really proposed membership? I just started reading his book and, as well in his interviews, he comes across as a bit of an idiot. As mentioned above, a lot of these undercover FBI guys love to talk about how well they did damaging LCN so I'm pretty dubious that he could have been made.

Unfortunately, that's true. Greg actually did propose that mutt.

I've said this before, but there should really be a statue of Greg DePalma at Quantico whistle.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: NE1020
How about Jack Garica/Falcone, was he really proposed membership? I just started reading his book and, as well in his interviews, he comes across as a bit of an idiot. As mentioned above, a lot of these undercover FBI guys love to talk about how well they did damaging LCN so I'm pretty dubious that he could have been made.

Unfortunately, that's true. Greg actually did propose that mutt.

I've said this before, but there should really be a statue of Greg DePalma at Quantico whistle.


The guy had stones though.

Brains not so much, but stones aplenty.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: NE1020
How about Jack Garica/Falcone, was he really proposed membership? I just started reading his book and, as well in his interviews, he comes across as a bit of an idiot. As mentioned above, a lot of these undercover FBI guys love to talk about how well they did damaging LCN so I'm pretty dubious that he could have been made.

Unfortunately, that's true. Greg actually did propose that mutt.

I've said this before, but there should really be a statue of Greg DePalma at Quantico whistle.


The guy had stones though.

Like fucking boccie balls.
Posted By: Dellacroce

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:23 PM

In Depalmas defense, theres no way he couldve known that a guy that fat could be an fbi agent. I mean how the hell did garcia ever pass a physical...he might just be the most disgusting human being ive ever seen. smile
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Dellacroce
In Depalmas defense, theres no way he couldve known that a guy that fat could be an fbi agent. I mean how the hell did garcia ever pass a physical...he might just be the most disgusting human being ive ever seen. smile

It's just too embarrassing, though. Garcia grew up in the East Bronx. He went to Mount Saint Michael, which is almost walking distance to Greg's old headquarters on Boston and Conner.

Mercifully, the poor bastard died in jail. Not that anything would have happened to him in this day and age. But he couldn't have handled being put on the shelf for good. Believe me, it would have eaten him alive.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:44 PM

I read that after the Donnie Brasco situation happened, some of the families made a rule saying that associates must been known for at least 8 years to be proposed for membership. Technically speaking, Garcia's been around them his whole life lol
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:51 PM

What's worse than letting a Fed named Falcone into your crew in the Mafia?

Letting a CUBAN Fed named Falcone into your crew in the Italian Mafia.

Ouch.

Talk about a slap in the face to old Greg.
Posted By: leftygun62

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 07:59 PM

Ernest Volkman. I cringe when I hear the BS that comes out of his mouth.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: leftygun62
Ernest Volkman. I cringe when I hear the BS that comes out of his mouth.

He sucks. It's a shame, too. His first book with John Cummings, The Heist, which detailed Lufthansa, was well written and showed a lot of promise. But everything since has been garbage. Their books about Gotti (Goombata), and the Luccheses (Gangbusters) were terrible, at best. At worst, they were outright fraudulent.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 08:20 PM

Not to mention Philip Carlo, I tried reading Gaspipe be it was too painful
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/03/14 10:28 PM

I think maybe pistone was dirty too. I think he crossed lines. I'm sure a lot of you heard the phone call with lefty. That matter of the 250k got blown off as a lie but maybe the wiseguys caught him doing some shit he wasn't supposed to be doing and he had to save face for his fbi bosses. Maybe he took the opportunity to pocket some bundles of cash under the radar. I don't have evidence of course, but given how far he made it and the implications made on wiretaps, perhaps he wasn't such a boy scout. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 12:57 AM

That one with Pistone in front of the Motion Lounge cracked me up when I watched it.

Biggest mob documentary bullshitter for is Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski. I was always waiting for him to claim he was the second shooter in Dallas, when President Kennedy was assassinated, or claiming he killed Hitler in 45'. He was so full of shit.
Posted By: vitovito

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 12:42 PM

Depalma had or was going to propose jack for membership.


There is a wiretap recording of them on youtube , it record them talking about it while driving around in gregs pt cruiser.


Greg : The only thing im striving for is to get you done asap.
Greg: You want it right? You would be the second!
Garcia :Yeah i would be honoured, i would never let you down.

I was suprised to learn Garcia is 62! He does not look it imo

The book is good, however there are some questionable events that lead you to believe they were just added to the story for a laugh.

Like the time Garcia got out of hospital and him deplama and vaccaro went to a resturant.
Greg went all serious and said " i think we got a rat" and pointed to garcia.
Then burst out laughing and pointed to a wire that was still attached to his shirt from hospital.
Garcia said he thought they had busted his cover!

Or the time when Depalma said " lets go for a ride". He took him to a jewellery shop and bought him a diamond pinkie ring! Presented to him and said " your with me now" this ring indicates nobody gonna can move in on you! Vaccaro was there!

I think Garcia fancied himself as a bit of a mobster after that operation.
he started wearing tony soprano style bowling shirts and lots of gold jewellery!
Posted By: FrankMazola

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 03:34 PM

If I'm a skipper I'm taking the new guy out and making him beat the shit out of somebody third or forth time he comes around. Jack Garcia didn't do the FBI any favors when he explained what an undercover fed can and cannot do to another human being.
Posted By: sbhc

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 03:35 PM

Who was the guy who made up a story about being Joe Masseria's grandson? I think he became some sort of evangelical Christian and had this backstory of being an ex NY gangster who found God.

He was featured on a tv show, I vaguely remember seeing it on youtube.
Posted By: TheKillingJoke

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Biggest mob documentary bullshitter for is Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski. I was always waiting for him to claim he was the second shooter in Dallas, when President Kennedy was assassinated, or claiming he killed Hitler in 45'. He was so full of shit.


Kuklinski was so full of shit, it was embarrassing. By the time he claimed that he did the hit on Carmine Galante, I threw up from laughing.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: sbhc
Who was the guy who made up a story about being Joe Masseria's grandson? I think he became some sort of evangelical Christian and had this backstory of being an ex NY gangster who found God.

He was featured on a tv show, I vaguely remember seeing it on youtube.


Are you talking about Tom Papania? Here is Papania on the 700 club...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8t6WoUmSO8
Posted By: mldetroit

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:13 PM

I'm surprised that some of you think Pistone was full of shit - or dirty. There was a contract on Pistone, even it it was just so the mob could save face and was more for show. When Lefty got out of prison he went to Massino and requested permission to kill Pistone and Massino turned him down. You can't blame him for how a documentary is edited. He sits there and answers questions and a production company takes care of the rest. I am generally not a fan of police, but I find it impossible not to respect Pistone. It was a big deal what he did at that time.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:18 PM

"When Lefty got out of prison he went to Massino and requested permission to kill Pistone and Massino turned him down."

Never heard that before. I thought he was dying and got a compassionate release and died soon after. Pistone must have been spreading that.
Posted By: mldetroit

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:24 PM

I wish I could remember the source but I can't. But since Massino turned informant its probably true. Anyways, apparently the FBI somehow knew about this request and the talked to Massino about it. Massino told them that they were not going after Pistone.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:28 PM

Massino also said the Sonny Black was not killed because of Pistone. He said that Sonny Black was making moves to take over. Capeci wrote about it on gangland. Here it is:
This Week In Gang Land April 14, 2011
By Jerry Capeci
Massino: As Mafia Boss I Had The Power Of Life & Death

Siskel and Ebert gave Donnie Brasco “two thumbs up.” But when a prosecutor asked Joseph Massino for his take on the classic gangster movie, he grimaced and held his hand in front of his face. Then he wiggled his fingers back and forth in that shaky motion that most closely translates as “Mezza-mezza.” Or perhaps, “Eh.”
“Objection!” thundered the defense attorney. “Sustained,” said the judge, ending Joe Massino’s career as movie reviewer.
Jurors were instructed to ignore this part of Massino’s historic appearance as the first official New York Mafia boss to testify for the government – in this case, against a fellow former Bonanno crime family big, onetime acting boss Vincent (Vinny Gorgeous)Basciano.
Thankfully, Gang Land is not required to adhere to the trial judge’s admonitions. For that matter, it’s hard to fathom how jurors will get it out of their heads since Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis was forced to repeat the shaky hand motion when he ruled it off-limits. At any rate, let it be officially recorded here that the first movie review by an ex-mob chieftain delivered from the witness stand was “No Stars!”
Not that the 68-year-old Massino lacked for insight about the inner-workings of the Bonanno family of that era. In fact, he is presumably better-equipped than anyone to pass judgment on the accuracy of the big-screen portrayal of FBI agent Joe Pistone’s undercover work against the crime family from 1976-to-1981.
In any event, once his movie review was over, the burly ex-Mafia boss proceeded to deliver several new revelations, each of which partially explained why he might think the movie version of the Brasco affair was no great shakes.
First, he debunked a long-held theory that a pair of mob murders of that era stemmed from anger at mobsters who were hoodwinked by the FBI agent. Under questioning by assistant U.S. attorney Taryn Merkl, Massino said that he was “made” on June 14, 1977 – a year after Pistone began his undercover role – and learned about the agent’s work soon after the FBI disclosed it in the summer of 1981 to Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, the wiseguy who wanted to sponsor Pistone for induction.
Contrary to what prosecutors alleged at Massino’s 2004 trial – and what was implied in the 1997 movie – Sonny Black’s murder in August of 1981, a month after the feds pulled the plug on Pistone’s sting operation, was not payback for Napolitano’s role in vouching for Donnie Brasco, the jewel thief that Pistone pretended to be for five years.
Massino said that Sonny Black had told him that three FBI agents had alerted Napolitano that the “knock-around guy” he had known for several years as “Donnie Brasco” was really an FBI agent. Napolitano said the agents warned him that “if anything happens to [Brasco], we’re going to have a lot of trouble,” said Massino, adding that Napolitano’s sudden problems were unrelated to the Brasco fiasco.
“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, recalling that he took part in the slaying and was part of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip (Rusty) Rastelli that authorized the rubout. (Sonny Black looks into the camera as he and "Donnie Brasco" catch some rays at a Florida pool in 1980.)
Massino also dismissed reports that the demise of Bonanno wiseguy Anthony Mirra, whose February 1982 murder was long linked to his own Donnie Brasco dealings, was related to Pistone’s undercover work. Instead, Massino testified, that slaying stemmed from a belief that Mirra, a longtime drug dealer had become a secret “cooperator for the DEA.”
Massino, who is expected to face stiff cross-examination today about his assertion that Basciano ordered the 2004 murder of mob associate Randolph Pizzolo, stressed during his direct testimony that he was an all-powerful crime boss who had the power of life and death over wiseguys years before he took over the crime family in 1991.
He also explained the rationale behind another mob rubout: Disrespect. While he was on the lam in 1984 – ducking trial for the murders of three capos in 1981 – Massino said he learned from Rastelli’s brother and his own brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale, who was then a capo, that Rastelli was planning to whack Cesare Bonventre, a member of the family’s Sicilian faction who had extorted about $600,000 from a drug dealer who was close to Rastelli.
When Bonventre was called on the carpet about it by Rastelli, (right) not only did he deny the allegation, “he got insulted” by the inquiry and “got up and walked away,’ without so much as a polite good bye to his already steaming Mafia boss.
“You can’t do that with bosses,” said Massino. “That’s why he died.”
Rastelli also wanted to whack Bonventre’s long time buddy and partner in the crime and the insult, Baldo Amato – the duo played key roles in the 1979 rubout of wannabe Bonanno boss Carmine (Lilo) Galante – but Massino thought that was a bad idea, he testified.
“I saved him,” he said. “I sent word to the old man. I said, ‘Listen, he’s listening to his captain. We can’t just keep going on killing and killing and killing. He’s following orders just like I follow orders.’ He said, ‘You’re right,’ and he gave him a pass.”
Yesterday, prosecutors played tape recordings of jailhouse talks that Massino had with Vinny Gorgeous in January of 2005 – which Gang Land first disclosed thatSeptember – in which Basciano admits ordering a close associate to whack Pizzolo.
In his opening remarks to the jury, defense lawyer George Goltzer conceded that Basciano admitted ordering Pizzolo’s slaying while he was behind bars but insisted that his client was lying to his all powerful boss in order to save the life of Dominick Cicale, a close associate who had whacked Pizzolo on his own.
Goltzer conceded that Basciano was a powerful mobster who had committed numerous crimes, but insisted that he had nothing to do with ordering the December 1, 2004 murder of Pizzolo. His purpose in telling his mob boss he ordered the slaying was solely to protect Cicale from retaliation from Massino for having acted without prior approval.
The defense lawyer implored jurors to listen to the tapes “as many times as you want” during deliberations, assuring them that when all the evidence is in, “the only fair inference is that Vincent Basciano is saying what he has to say to save DominickCicale.”
It’s hard to determine what the jury will ultimately decide, but one irony of the defense lawyer’s words is that if Vinny Gorgeous was indeed trying to save Cicale from Masssino, his old pal hasn’t expressed much gratitude. He has already testified against him twice, and is slated to follow Massino to the stand.
A second irony is that no matter what the outcome of the trial, Vinny Gorgeous, who is serving life without parole for one mob murder, will leave prison in a body bag some time in the future
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:36 PM

To me the guy who appears on just about all documentaries whose story is so played out (Much more that Pistone and Henry Hill before Henry died) is Michael Franzese. He never mentions that he cooperated with the government, contrary he says he never ratted. Just come clean Franzese and bag that religion story of yours.
Posted By: mldetroit

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:40 PM

Its hard to believe that Sonny Black was not killed because of the Pistone situation...but Massino would know better than me I guess.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:43 PM

Midetroit a lot of people on his board will tell you that MAssino was covering his ass, making stories up , etc, etc. etc. You have to draw your own conclusions on this.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: mldetroit
Anyways, apparently the FBI somehow knew about this request and the talked to Massino about it. Massino told them that they were not going after Pistone.

It's bullshit. They were never going to hit a Fed. And it was Big Paul who the Feds approached, not Massino. If you're going to go by books, at least get the story straight. Castellano laughed at the agents and said something like, "if you know anything about us, you know we'd never go along with that."

Lefty screaming for revenge in prison and Commission approval are two entirely different things. I don't personally believe that Pistone was dirty. I don't know where that came from. But his ego was out of control with those sunglasses and that self-important bullshit about a mafia contract still being out on him rolleyes.
Posted By: sbhc

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Originally Posted By: sbhc
Who was the guy who made up a story about being Joe Masseria's grandson? I think he became some sort of evangelical Christian and had this backstory of being an ex NY gangster who found God.

He was featured on a tv show, I vaguely remember seeing it on youtube.


Are you talking about Tom Papania? Here is Papania on the 700 club...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8t6WoUmSO8


Yes that's him. Thanks for finding it.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Midetroit a lot of people on his board will tell you that MAssino was covering his ass, making stories up , etc, etc. etc. You have to draw your own conclusions on this.

Another valid point. Because the Feds never put words in the mouths of their prized stool pigeons.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: mldetroit
I'm surprised that some of you think Pistone was full of shit - or dirty. There was a contract on Pistone, even it it was just so the mob could save face and was more for show. When Lefty got out of prison he went to Massino and requested permission to kill Pistone and Massino turned him down. You can't blame him for how a documentary is edited. He sits there and answers questions and a production company takes care of the rest. I am generally not a fan of police, but I find it impossible not to respect Pistone. It was a big deal what he did at that time.


We never claimed what he did wasn't a big deal at the time. What annoys me is the additional bullshit about the fake contract on his life and taking credit for things others did or things that never happened. Out of his mouth he claimed there was a $500,000 contract on his life from the Commission. He said he took down the whole Bonanno Family. He's still walking around with those stupid sunglasses all the time. I respect him for what he did, but I lose respect for him because of the additional BS. The worst part is he's on so many documentaries telling the same lies over and over.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: NE1020
Not to mention Philip Carlo, I tried reading Gaspipe be it was too painful


Yes, Philip Carlo is much worse than Volkman. The Gaspipe and Iceman books should be in the fiction section.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: mulberry
The Gaspipe and Iceman books should be in the fiction section.

The science fiction section grin .
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:05 PM

I respected Pistone much, but after I read a positive comment of his about a book which tries to "rehabilitate" the corrupt FBI agent Paul Rico who sold himself to Barboza and Bulger, I don't know what to think about Pistone now.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
I respected Pistone much, but after I read a positive comment of his about a book which tries to "rehabilitate" the corrupt FBI agent Paul Rico who sold himself to Barboza and Bulger, I don't know what to think about Pistone now.

See what he has to say about rehabilitating wiseguys. What a hypocrite. But I guess when it's one of their own . . . rolleyes

And you guys know me. I couldn't give two shits about most wiseguys. 99 percent of them are leeches and lowlifes, and when you kill people you belong in prison. Period. But that kind of outright hypocrisy really sticks in my craw.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:16 PM

Didn't Pistone also campaign and support FBI Agents Lynn Devecchio and John Connoly ?
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Didn't Pistone also campaign and support FBI Agents Lynn Devecchio and John Connoly ?

Of course. Like I said, when it's one of their own . . . . it's a different story rolleyes.
Posted By: Frankie_Five_Angels

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/04/14 11:30 PM

Pistone is ridiculous with his backup of DeVecchio.... It's a fuc*#ng joke. Always has been...
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 12:30 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

I don't personally believe that Pistone was dirty. I don't know where that came from.


That was just a thought pizzaboy. I was recently listening to the phone call with lefty and that big thing about 250k that he said was bullshit and some implications that he was holding back money. Just made me think maybe he took the opportunity to fatten his pockets and keep it under the radar. Wasn't an accusation on my part, just a thought. I wasn't saying he was dirty, just bringing up the possibility based on conversations I heard and asking for opinions. Don't take it like I'm making definite claims
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: blacksheep
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

I don't personally believe that Pistone was dirty. I don't know where that came from.


That was just a thought pizzaboy. I was recently listening to the phone call with lefty and that big thing about 250k that he said was bullshit and some implications that he was holding back money. Just made me think maybe he took the opportunity to fatten his pockets and keep it under the radar. Wasn't an accusation on my part, just a thought. I wasn't saying he was dirty, just bringing up the possibility based on conversations I heard and asking for opinions. Don't take it like I'm making definite claims

No problem, buddy. To be honest, I didn't even see the post until you just mentioned that you're the one who made it. That's why I said I don't know where it came from. And welcome to the board smile.
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 12:55 AM

I don't think Pistone was dirty. if you listen to tapes, it was about Tony Mirra saying that Brasco owed money and was holding it back, this was after Mirra lost a sitdown involving Donnie Brasco to be on record with him and not being on record with Benjamin "Lefty Guns" Ruggiero. It was just a way for Mirra to stir shit up when he lost that sitdown as he never put Brasco on record with him before he went to prison. Once Mirra got out and heard how much of a good earner Pistone was, Tony got mad and wanted Joe to be with him so he could get his hands on that money that Donnie was bringing in.

I agree with PB as Pistone embellious some of his claims. Agent Pistone did go through a hell of a lot more then Garcia did and Garcia was not around mobsters that were in their prime or as sharp as they use to be. Joe had to be extremely careful around the Bonanno's. Massino did not suspect Brasco as a rat, he was jealous of the fact that Donnie was proposed for membership before his brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale.
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 01:13 AM

I guess it's just funny if the official story is true. So Mirra, a feared ruthless gangster, was playing little child games because he was jealous. Like a 10 year old trying to get a classmate in trouble with his teachers out of bitterness. I guess these guys really are petty lowlives.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
I agree with PB as Pistone embellious some of his claims. Agent Pistone did go through a hell of a lot more then Garcia did and Garcia was not around mobsters that were in their prime or as sharp as they use to be. Joe had to be extremely careful around the Bonanno's. Massino did not suspect Brasco as a rat, he was jealous of the fact that Donnie was proposed for membership before his brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale.

Oh, absolutely. You can't discount what Pistone accomplished just because he's an egotist and tends to overstate things.

As far as Garcia, he fooled ONE GUY. A desperate old man who, for all of his faults, would have seen right through that fat fuck if he was twenty years younger. He gets a lot of shit because of what happened when he got older, but the truth is, Greg was VERY guarded when he was younger. Garcia wouldn't have gotten within ten feet of him.

And like him or not, Pistone had half of Mulberry Street fooled. So there's no comparison between the two agents.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 01:38 AM

I think most people will concede that Pistone did an amazing job.
He came in as a complete stranger,established a totally fictitious persona,became a trusted member of Sonny and Lefty's inner circle,and stayed alive for six years.

I would think that he would have been happy to have that as his legacy,but then fame reared it's ugly head. Now all of a sudden,he's Superagent,the Mafia's most hunted man,the destroyer of the Bonannos and most of Organized Crime.

Chalk it up to ego,movie promotion,talk show circuit,whatever.
Bottom line,he lost some of my respect.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
I think most people will concede that Pistone did an amazing job.
He came in as a complete stranger,established a totally fictitious persona,became a trusted member of Sonny and Lefty's inner circle,and stayed alive for six years.

I would think that he would have been happy to have that as his legacy,but then fame reared it's ugly head. Now all of a sudden,he's Superagent,the Mafia's most hunted man,the destroyer of the Bonannos and most of Organized Crime.

Chalk it up to ego,movie promotion,talk show circuit,whatever.
Bottom line,he lost some of my respect.


That's it in a nutshell, Lou smile.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 01:51 AM

There's a movie about Garcia in the works now. Maybe he'll be sporting a new pair of shades after that hits the silver screen.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
I think most people will concede that Pistone did an amazing job.
He came in as a complete stranger,established a totally fictitious persona,became a trusted member of Sonny and Lefty's inner circle,and stayed alive for six years.

I would think that he would have been happy to have that as his legacy,but then fame reared it's ugly head. Now all of a sudden,he's Superagent,the Mafia's most hunted man,the destroyer of the Bonannos and most of Organized Crime.

Chalk it up to ego,movie promotion,talk show circuit,whatever.
Bottom line,he lost some of my respect.



Overblown.

Pistone, his shades and the interviews are all wash-out after the fact, minor diversions.

The guy went deep undercover in the 70's in NYC. For 6 years. Got proposed. Thats the heart of it. The rest are details.

He did an amazing job.

Could he have handled his post undercover life better? Sure.

But that doesnt change anything.

Mirra and Sonny B got clipped. Lefty was pulled off the streets by the Feds due to his imminent clipping. All due to JP's infiltration.
So people who think he wasnt serious? Well I dont know what serious is...
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:01 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
As far as Garcia, he fooled ONE GUY. A desperate old man who, for all of his faults, would have seen right through that fat fuck if he was twenty years younger.


All respect to PB I do think this is simplifying what Garcia did.

He got in with Greg's crew. Hung out with ALOT of wiseguys. Hell, NOBODY in Gregs entourage called him out.

So yeah Greg in his younger days may have picked him up. But Nobody in Greg's crew said a word either.

So IMO Garcia fooled more than a dated ageing old gangster.

Was it 1970's NYC? No, but it was also more than one old dinasaur...
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:37 AM

Originally Posted By: NE1020
There's a movie about Garcia in the works now. Maybe he'll be sporting a new pair of shades after that hits the silver screen.


I can't imagine who would be playing him since Chris Farley is no longer with us..
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 07:15 AM

I agree with you Sonny. GArcia was a like a professional undercover. He specialized in working undercover and he did it throughout his whole career on many, many cases for the Feds. I agree that no one in Depalmas crew or any other crew that GArcia met along the way ever questioned who he was. They did for Pistone. Massino warned everyone to stay away from Donnie Brasco. The fbi boss at the end of that 60 minute interview says that Garcia was one of their best agents in the fbi's history. You have to at least recognize that and give him his just due. MAybe it wasn't due to DePalma's age that he didn't see right through Garcia, maybe it was because Garcia was that good. Just a thought.
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 07:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
GArcia was a like a professional undercover. He specialized in working undercover and he did it throughout his whole career on many, many cases for the Feds.

Speaking of this, how do undercover agents manage to work in more than one case? After he traps one organization and blows his cover to testify at the trial, shouldn't his reputation spread throughout the national underworld so he can't repeat the same trick anymore?
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 07:41 AM

"they picked up Greg DePalma, age 73. He put on a dirty gray sweatshirt and used a cane to get to the car. In court, DePalma was told he faced 772 years in jail. "Oh, come on," he said, rolling his eyes as he was led away."

LOL
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
All respect to PB I do think this is simplifying what Garcia did.

When Greg got out in 2003 NO ONE wanted anything to do with him outside of Craig and his friends. The other Bronx skippers and local soldiers kept him at arm's length from the day he came home. He was a laughingstock at the time. I do give him credit for getting himself back in action, but the guys who mattered never looked at him the same way again (except for Tony, but there were exigent circumstances there that I'm not going into here).

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
He got in with Greg's crew. Hung out with ALOT of wiseguys. Hell, NOBODY in Gregs entourage called him out.

And again, who exactly was in Greg's crew in 2003 that didn't "call him out"? You got one thing right. It was an entourage at that point, it wasn't a crew anymore.

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
So IMO Garcia fooled more than a dated ageing old gangster.

Did he fool Mario? Did he fool Louie? Did he fool Nicky? Did he fool Angelo? Did he fool the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time? Do you even know the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time?

My point is, it wasn't just Greg who wasn't the same at that point. It was the fact that the crew that he worked with for twenty years wasn't there anymore (and like I said, the few guys who were kept him at arm's length). But from now on, I'll be sure to defer to you on all matters regarding the Bronx tongue grin .

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
I agree with you Sonny. GArcia was a like a professional undercover. He specialized in working undercover and he did it throughout his whole career on many, many cases for the Feds.

I don't disagree with you, Beanshooter. And I certainly don't hate cops. But what Garcia did here in the Bronx wasn't his finest hour.
Posted By: SonnyBlackstein

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:05 PM

I guess thats whats called 'getting schooled'

Consider it retracted with Haste PB wink smile
Posted By: vitovito

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:08 PM

Pizzaboy.

How important was Robert Vaccaro? Whos crew was he with? ( or still is )

Garcia made him to be a bit of a tough guy!
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
I guess thats whats called 'getting schooled'

Consider it retracted with Haste PB wink smile

You're my pal, Sonny. And you're opinion is as valid as anyone's, including my own. But this really isn't even a matter of opinion as far as I'm concerned. By 2003 that was the gang that couldn't pee straight (and I mean that literally, half of them had prostate cancer).

And you know me well enough by now to know that when I have strong feelings about something that it's for a reason and not unfounded speculation or wishful thinking. And this just happens to be one of those times smile .
Posted By: blacksheep

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:20 PM

PB how the hell do you know all this shit? I get you're from there and all, but I lived in NY almost all my life and I can't even tell you my neighbors name. You gotta be the most interesting person here by a mile. You should write a book
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: vitovito
How important was Robert Vaccaro?

He's as important as his last envelope. Just like the rest of them.

Originally Posted By: vitovito
Whos crew was he with? ( or still is )

Funzi and Louie split that crew up. But Louie's practically retired, so Andy can probably make a claim until Richie comes home next month. Then again, I'll be shocked if Richie doesn't head to Florida and sit in the sun with his compare wink .

Originally Posted By: vitovito
Garcia made him to be a bit of a tough guy!

That's his job. If he made them out to be a bunch of pussies, no one would buy the books. But Vaccaro isn't a punk, if that's what you mean.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
GArcia was a like a professional undercover. He specialized in working undercover and he did it throughout his whole career on many, many cases for the Feds.

Speaking of this, how do undercover agents manage to work in more than one case? After he traps one organization and blows his cover to testify at the trial, shouldn't his reputation spread throughout the national underworld so he can't repeat the same trick anymore?


National underworld? Has such a thing ever existed? Maybe during the 1950's or so, but even then, if a guy ratted or worked undercover in NY and went to Dallas, would the local boss have phoned up all the other bosses across the country to check on the new guy in town?

Most NY mobsters have never been outside of the NY/NJ area except maybe to Florida. Other than knowing how to run the rackets, deal drugs, and steal, these aren't exactly the most worldly people.
Posted By: Dellacroce

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 06:42 PM

What youve never heard of the national underworld inquirer , they send out press releases and newsletters to criminals and wiseguys all over the country every week...
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 07:20 PM

PB you said,"Did he fool Mario? Did he fool Louie? Did he fool Nicky? Did he fool Angelo? Did he fool the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time? Do you even know the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time?

My point is, it wasn't just Greg who wasn't the same at that point. It was the fact that the crew that he worked with for twenty years wasn't there anymore (and like I said, the few guys who were kept him at arm's length)"

So how come in Garcia's case they took down Arnold Squittieri and Tony Megale from the sdministration along with 30 some odd guys? So much for arms length.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/21/nyregion/21mob.html?_r=0Guilty Plea Is New Blow to the Once-Feared Gambinos
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By JULIA PRESTON
Published: April 21, 2006
A graying 70-year-old defendant who federal prosecutors said was the acting boss of the Gambino crime family pleaded guilty yesterday to racketeering, a new turn in the spiraling decline of what was once one of the most feared criminal organizations in New York.


John Marshall Mantel for The New York Times
Arnold Squitieri pleaded guilty to four racketeering charges Thursday.
The defendant, Arnold Squitieri, entered guilty pleas in Federal District Court in Manhattan to four counts of racketeering and extortion, saying he had used threats of violence to exact payments from construction companies in Westchester County and Mineola, N.Y., and from a New Jersey trucking company.

"I know it was wrong," Mr. Squitieri said, reading a written statement to a magistrate judge, Michael H. Dolinger. Mr. Squitieri also told tearful relatives that he had made the plea for them.

In a 53-count indictment brought in March 2005, prosecutors charged that Mr. Squitieri took command as the acting boss of the Gambino organization in June 2002 after the former boss, Peter Gotti, was arrested on racketeering charges.

But Mr. Squitieri refused to acknowledge that he was a member of the Gambino organization. He admitted to taking part in an "enterprise," but told the magistrate judge he would agree to a plea only "with the Gambino name out of it."

Gerald Shargel, Mr. Squitieri's lawyer, said he had entered a "straightforward arm's-length plea agreement" and had not agreed to cooperate with the government. Prosecutors recommended a sentence range for Mr. Squitieri of as little as seven years and three months to a maximum of nine years, less than half the sentence that he might have faced if he were convicted in a trial.

The trial of Mr. Squitieri and an accused Gambino capo, Gregory DePalma, had been set to begin on May 8. With his plea, Mr. Squitieri has a chance of getting out of prison before he is 80.

Mr. Squitieri appeared lively and spoke in a strong voice. But at one point, when the judge asked him during which years he had committed his crimes, he became confused.

"I can't remember too good, your honor," he said. "I'm getting up in age."

At the end of the hearing, Mr. Squitieri turned to point at his wife, Marie, a slim woman with flowing blond hair, who was sitting with a group of his relatives. "I did it for you," he said. "I pleaded guilty because of you."

The arrest of Mr. Squitieri and 31 other accused Gambino members was a result of a three-year investigation in which an F.B.I. undercover agent infiltrated Mr. DePalma's crew. F.B.I. officials have compared the agent to Joe Pistone, an agent who, under the name Donnie Brasco, infiltrated the Bonanno crime family two decades ago in an operation that became law enforcement legend as well as a Hollywood movie.

This undercover operation involving Mr. Squitieri also appeared to have some theatrical elements.

At one point during the operation, the undercover agent gave flat-screen televisions to Mr. Squitieri and to Mr. DePalma, saying they were stolen, a law enforcement official recounted. One evening Mr. Squitieri was watching an episode of "The Sopranos." In it, a mobster was watching his own stolen flat-screen set when his parole officer visited and promptly arrested him for possessing stolen property.

That episode made Mr. Squitieri, who was himself on supervised release, nervous about the gift, the law enforcement official said. He got rid of the set, the official said, concerned that this "could be life imitating art."

On March 31, Anthony Megale, accused as the acting underboss and street operator for Mr. Squitieri, pleaded guilty to racketeering charges. Two men who admitted they were "street bosses" for Mr. Squitieri, Alphonse Sisca and Louis Filippelli, also pleaded guilty then.
Posted By: Longshoreman

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 07:27 PM

Good points, my only question is they start dealing deep with a guy who shows up out of nowhere? Greed was making decisions at that point I presume.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
PB you said,"Did he fool Mario? Did he fool Louie? Did he fool Nicky? Did he fool Angelo? Did he fool the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time? Do you even know the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time?

My point is, it wasn't just Greg who wasn't the same at that point. It was the fact that the crew that he worked with for twenty years wasn't there anymore (and like I said, the few guys who were kept him at arm's length)"

So how come in Garcia's case they took down Arnold Squittieri and Tony Megale from the sdministration along with 30 some odd guys? So much for arms length.


Did you miss the part of my post where I mentioned Tony in parentheses?

Because you didn't quote that part in your reply. Here it is:

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
When Greg got out in 2003 NO ONE wanted anything to do with him outside of Craig and his friends. The other Bronx skippers and local soldiers kept him at arm's length from the day he came home. He was a laughingstock at the time. I do give him credit for getting himself back in action, but the guys who mattered never looked at him the same way again (except for Tony, but there were exigent circumstances there that I'm not going into here).


The Tony I was referring to was Tony Megale. And there WERE exigent circumstances there. Tony's a Fairfield guy, but he got off with Louie over here in Morris Park.

As far as Arnold, it was guilt by association through Tony. And he's not a Bronx guy anyway. I went to great lengths to point out that the BRONX CREW that Greg left behind kept him at arm's length when he came home. I even mentioned a few of the guys, and I probably shouldn't have. But I stand by that statement and my assertion.

And I'm no cop hater. I gave Garcia his due as an agent. When wiseguys die in prison I don't lose a wink of sleep. You kill people, you belong in fucking jail. Period. But the truth is, you're trying to tell me about a guy I knew from when I was 16 years old until the day he died a few years ago. He was a fucking shell when he got out because of what happened to Craig. And believe me, I hate going there. Which is why we'll continue this in a pm. So watch for the blinking light, buddy smile.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 08:17 PM

Another question PB, wasn't the reason that no one wanted anything to do with Greg when he got out after the Scores case was because his attempted hit on Nicky Lasorsa (a bronx guy and the one he sponsored for induction) that was supposedly not snctioned?
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/killer-pegs-mob-hit-article-1.497851


KILLER PEGS MOB IN HIT
BY ROBERT GEARTY NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Friday, July 26, 2002, 12:00 AM A A A
0



As two aging mobsters listened in wheelchairs, a self-confessed killer druglord took the witness stand yesterday and implicated them in a murder-for-hire plot. Sitting steely-eyed in Manhattan Federal Court, Gambino capo Gregory DePalma, 69, and Sam (Fat Man) Cagnina, 66, listened as Jose Reyes said he was recruited to kill a Bronx car dealer while the pair were confined to a federal prison hospital in Missouri. Reyes, 32 - who also uses a wheelchair after a gunshot from a drug rival left him paralyzed in 1992 - testified he went to the authorities after DePalma and Cagnina asked if he could find someone to kill the car dealer, Nicky LaSorsa. Prosecutors said DePalma wanted LaSorsa dead because LaSorsa had muscled in on one of his rackets: the collection of $2,500 a week in protection money from a businessman. Seat cushion wired "He was the reason Nicky was a made guy - and this was the way Nicky was paying him," Reyes testified. Reyes - who is serving a life sentence for his role in seven killings and who pleaded guilty last week to five more - allowed the feds to plant a microphone in the seat cushion of his wheelchair to record conversations with DePalma and Cagnina, who were arrested in September. "When I left he was so . . . jealous, of me, of everything I did. . . . He was nobody. I brought him all around, I gave him a name, this . . .," DePalma said of LaSorsa in one tape. LaSorsa declined to comment yesterday. DePalma's attorney, Robert Ellis, said Reyes made up the murder-for-hire account to reduce his sentence. Cagnina and DePalma are both in federal prison; DePalma is serving a 70-month sentence on federal charges of racketeering, gambling and other crimes.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Another question PB, wasn't the reason that no one wanted anything to do with Greg when he got out after the Scores case was because his attempted hit on Nicky Lasorsa (a bronx guy and the one he sponsored for induction) that was supposedly not snctioned?

I think I mentioned a Nicky, didn't I? whistle

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Did he fool Mario? Did he fool Louie? Did he fool Nicky? Did he fool Angelo? Did he fool the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time? Do you even know the guy who was babysitting Tore's crew at the time?

That was blown out of proportion by the media. No one was getting killed over a fucking table at Rao's. Greg was a talker. Don't get me wrong, he was a very dangerous guy. But he was a screamer, if you know what I mean wink .

And Greg's isolation was due to the Scores case and the rats around his son Craig. People STILL resent him, and he's dead going on five years now.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/05/14 08:33 PM

As usual PB, thank you!
Posted By: mulberry

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/06/14 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein


Overblown.

Pistone, his shades and the interviews are all wash-out after the fact, minor diversions.

The guy went deep undercover in the 70's in NYC. For 6 years. Got proposed. Thats the heart of it. The rest are details.

He did an amazing job.

Could he have handled his post undercover life better? Sure.

But that doesnt change anything.

Mirra and Sonny B got clipped. Lefty was pulled off the streets by the Feds due to his imminent clipping. All due to JP's infiltration.
So people who think he wasnt serious? Well I dont know what serious is...


He's still the biggest bullshitter
Posted By: vitovito

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/06/14 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy


And Greg's isolation was due to the Scores case and the rats around his son Craig. People STILL resent him, and he's dead going on five years now.



Was Greg a capo during Gottis reign? Didnt gotti make gregs son?

I thought he was more of a white collar mobster back in the day who was close with the admin! I suppose i am basing that theory from that infamous photo with sinatra and carlo, and how he built that famous theartre! Didnt gotti jr tell him to take the plea on the scores case?
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/06/14 11:14 AM

Originally Posted By: vitovito
Was Greg a capo during Gottis reign?

Yes.

Originally Posted By: vitovito
Didnt gotti make gregs son?

Craig got made right around the time Gotti was indicted for the last time. A month or so after the famous pinch at the Ravenite, if I remember correctly. But Gotti would have definitely given the okay.

Originally Posted By: vitovito
I thought he was more of a white collar mobster back in the day who was close with the admin!

He got off as a jewel thief. And he lived a very white collar life up in Scarsdale. But he was a blue collar street guy to his core.

Originally Posted By: vitovito
I suppose i am basing that theory from that infamous photo with sinatra and carlo, and how he built that famous theartre!

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. But that's bullshit. I know for a fact that there were Westside guys at the concert that night who turned down that "photo-op."

Originally Posted By: vitovito
Didnt gotti jr tell him to take the plea on the scores case?

Well, the order probably came from the administration collectively. But yes, and Greg took it. Say what you want about him, but he followed his marching orders.
Posted By: CLenz7

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 07:06 AM

Found an article about another undercover agent in Patsy Parello's crew who was apparently also proposed membership. That seems bullshit to me.

http://nypost.com/2001/12/06/mob-takes-a-hit-undercover-cop-nails-73-wiseguys/
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 07:45 AM

Agreed. This guy Big Frankie never sat down with any made guys. He only hung around low level guys. He did an undercover case out in Las Vegas about Boxing and after spending millions of dollars nobody even went to jail. Patsy is a very cautious guy and no way he would meet with this guy! Here is the Vegas case


BIG FRANKIE'S VEGAS STING Cop posed as wiseguy to probe fight-fixing
BY MICHELE MCPHEE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Tuesday, January 13, 2004, 12:00 AM A A A
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news...rticle-1.574495


In Las Vegas boxing circles, he was known as Big Frankie, a wiseguy from New York trying to unload stolen swag. He schmoozed with fighters and promoters, sitting ringside as he handed out business cards from his firm, YGJ & Company. And each time he gave a card out, Big Frankie Manzione couldn't help but smirk at the irony: YGJ stood for "You're Going to Jail.

" As a result of a 20-month probe dubbed Operation Match Book, at least a dozen Las Vegas fighters and promoters may be indicted as early as May on charges they fixed fights, forged boxers' medical records and bribed officials, several law enforcement sources told the Daily News. The probe was spearheaded by an undercover NYPD detective working with an FBI special agent. That detective, Big Frankie, moved with the swagger of a made member of the mob, and talked with the heavy-as-cement Brooklyn accent he said he acquired as a kid in Red Hook. But the raven-haired 34-year-old was really a decorated NYPD cop from Staten Island whose past undercover success made him an obvious choice when the FBI was looking for some help. Big Frankie was pulled out of Las Vegas last week, his cover blown after FBI agents stormed the office of Top Rank last Tuesday, seizing computers, medical documents, financial records, and tapes of professional bouts. "He's a very gutsy guy. He's terrific. He did an excellent job," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said yesterday. "They know who he is now, though.

" It was a far different story when he blew into town 20 months ago. The first anyone in Vegas saw of Big Frankie was when he began making the rounds with his "cousin," Joey Torres. Torres, 42, had served 23 years in jail for killing his former boxing manager in 1979, a slaying he maintains he committed in self-defense during a cocaine-fueled fury. While in prison, Torres was credited with saving the life of a female prison guard. Then he won temporary freedom on Jan. 6, 2002, on a technicality that vacated his murder charge. He tried to resurrect his boxing career, pleading with Top Rank's head Bob Arum. Arum was won over, hooking Torres up with a trainer, a cell phone and a hotel room - even as California prosecutors refiled the murder charges, allowing Torres to be free on $100,000 bail. "Here was this kid who looked like he needed a break and been screwed out of 20 years of his life," Arum told reporters after signing Torres. "He deserved a shot at a fight.

" Torres' debut fight in April 2002 was as shady as his past. A crowd in Anaheim, Calif., booed after Torres knocked down fighter Perry Williams, whose performance was so listless that the fight's judges temporarily withheld his purse. With Torres usually at his side, Big Frankie soon began running with Top Rank employees, becoming a regular at the posh Charlie Palmer's Steakhouse at the Four Seasons and in the private nightclub Foundation Room in Mandalay Bay. Big Frankie also was a fixture in Top Rank's offices and had even been offered a job as a cornerman, several law enforcement sources said. Big Frankie and the FBI agent, who posed as his driver, accumulated evidence as the probe grew. Then things nearly blew up. In a murder retrial last year, Torres was found guilty and ordered to appear in a Los Angeles courtroom to resume his 25 years-to-life sentence. Instead, he jumped bail and threatened to blow Big Frankie's cover before fleeing, furious that his work in Operation Match Book didn't earn him a reprieve from prison, said a high-ranking law enforcement official with knowledge of the case. "He was saying he was going to tell Bob Arum that he was cooperating with the FBI," the source said. "He put the investigators in a lot of danger.

" Torres is still at large. Yesterday, Top Rank officials refused to comment on the case or discuss the undercover investigators who infiltrated their company. "We will not comment on rumors," said Top Rank spokesman Patrick Smith. GRAPHIC: Before Operation Match Book, Big Frankie's biggest undercover takedown wiped out the Genovese family: PROBE: Operation Steel Fences MISSION: Infiltrate Genovese crime family. THE "SET": Big Frankie posed as a crooked businessman who ran a Virginia trucking company that trafficked in swag and bootleg cigarettes. RESULTS: 72 Genovese capos, soldiers and associates were either convicted or pleaded guilty to charges including loansharking, extortion, embezzlement, labor racketeering, credit card fraud, bank fraud and gambling. Among those locked up were ­capos Pasquale (Patsy) Parello, owner of Patsy's restaurant on Arthur Ave. in the Bronx, and Rosario (Ross) Gangi.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By: CLenz7
Found an article about another undercover agent in Patsy Parello's crew who was apparently also proposed membership.

Oh, please lol lol lol lol.

That asshole makes Jack Garcia look like J. Edgar Hoover.
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 08:31 AM

PB, I couldn't wait for your response! LOL!
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 08:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
PB, I couldn't wait for your response! LOL!

smile
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 08:41 AM

If the guy was such a bigshot he would wrote a book about like all the others. Nypost never gets it right
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 08:54 AM

In all fairness, Patsy, Ross and Little Joe did end up taking pleas in that case, and each of them did a fair amount of time. But that was basically to get rid of the case quickly and without all of the media attention that's associated with undercover agents testifying. That family was way ahead of the curve when it comes to plea bargains. I personally think Little Joe would have beaten it, but from what I remember they wanted a global plea.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 09:20 AM

Is it true what that article says about Patsy holding meetings at his restaurant though Pizza Boy? Other than a few conversations here and there I thought that place was completely legit.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: NE1020
Is it true what that article says about Patsy holding meetings at his restaurant though Pizza Boy? Other than a few conversations here and there I thought that place was completely legit.

I've discussed this at length here before, so I'll be brief smile .

That place is Patsy's pride and joy. And as much as it means to him, it means even more to his lovely wife, and they'd never do anything to jeopardize it.

Now I'm not sugarcoating the man's life. It's a matter of public record at this point. But that place is generally off limits to street business and everyone knows it. And that little bit of conversation that got picked up by bugs a dozen years ago insured that it will never, ever happen again.
Posted By: NE1020

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 09:55 AM

Awesome thanks!
Posted By: British

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 05:11 PM

Dominic Montiglio always spouts the same old crap on documentaries
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 07:25 PM

How can we have forgotten Mike Russell, the Undercover cop!!!!!
Posted By: Beanshooter

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 07:28 PM

This guy Mike Russell has been on several Documentaries and had his own that is on youtube.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/08...nt_hold_up.html

Tell-all book on infiltrating the mob may have some bullet-sized holes in it
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on August 25, 2013 at 7:30 AM, updated August 25, 2013 at 4:21 PM



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Mike Russell writes that he helped take down wiseguy Vincent 'The Chin' Gigante, who is pictured here. Russell is not in this photograph.
Star-Ledger file photo

As an undercover New Jersey state trooper, Mike Russell says he infiltrated the mob and brought down dozens of wiseguys, all after taking a .32-caliber bullet to the head. It is quite the tale told in “Undercover Cop: How I Brought Down the Real-Life Sopranos,” which was released Aug. 6.

Publisher’s Weekly gave it a glowing review, writing, “This tell-all page-turner is all the better for being true.”

Except it’s not entirely true. Some important facts are at best stretched, at worst fabricated.

Mike Russell was never employed as a New Jersey state trooper, according to State Police Sgt. Brian Polite.

That isn’t to say he didn’t work with, or for, the State Police, but he was never a trooper as he claims on Page 3.
Nor was he ever a Newark cop, according to Newark Sgt. Ron Glover, as Russell claims to have been on Page 86.

Russell, in a phone interview from his home in Florida, acknowledged the error.

“The titles were bouncing all over the place,” he said, but he maintained the crux of the story is about him and the mob, not the agency he worked for.

Speaking of titles, the book refers to Russell’s State Police contact James “Big Jim” Sweeney as a Master Sergeant — a rank that does not exist in the New Jersey State Police.

The crux of the story, if not the details, appears to be accurate. Russell, who says he was known as “Mikey Ga-Ga,” was indeed influential in helping take down major figures in organized crime, said retired State Police Capt. Nick Oriolo, whose name is misspelled in the book.

Oriolo was his handler and described Russell’s role as more akin to a confidential informant than a trooper. That doesn’t diminish his importance in the case, the retired trooper said.

Russell did infiltrate the mob and did pass on valuable information, Oriolo said. But Oriolo estimates that only about 20 percent of the book is true. He does not recall Russell being shot in the head, which the book describes as a very emotional moment for the State Police sergeant, who was “blubbering” at Russell’s bedside.

Oriolo remembers the scene differently. He remembers Russell being beat up almost beyond recognition, but not shot in the head.

“I never talked to (Russell’s) wife about being shot,” Oriolo said. “Real-life Sopranos? This reads more like his real-life fantasy.”

Russell writes that the bullet, fired at point-blank range, did relatively little damage, entering his skull, bouncing off bone and exiting an inch above the entrance wound.

“Note to would be hitmen,” he writes. “If you’re going to whack someone, use a round that can kill.”

The book is published by Thomas Dunne Books, an imprint of St. Martin’s Press, a division of Macmillan, and the publisher is standing by the story.

Mike Russell was shot in the head, said Joe Rinaldi, associate director of publicity at St. Martin’s Press.

“Mike Russell’s publisher has every reason to believe ‘Undercover Cop’ is substantially accurate,” Rinaldi said in an e-mail. “According to Mike Russell’s account, which is consistent with the 1988 HBO documentary, Mike was a New Jersey cop who worked undercover for the New Jersey State Police. The main focus of his book is an undercover operation that resulted in numerous mobsters pleading guilty and doing jail time.”

Inconsistencies

Except — in many places — the book is not consistent with the HBO documentary in which Russell said he was a truck driver before his undercover work began, not a Newark cop. The movie, which can be found on YouTube, finds Russell saying he received 60 stitches because of the bullet wound he suffered in 1980. In the book, it’s down to 28 stitches and though the year isn’t mentioned, it is implied that it is the mid '80s.

In the documentary, Russell says he was an East Orange cop before trying something else with his life. That part checks out. He was, in fact, an East Orange cop, though his stint with that local department is never mentioned in the book.

There are other inconsistencies between the documentary and the book as well. Talking to HBO cameras, Russell says he made contact with Andy Gerardo, a top man in the Genovese crime family, after coming upon him at the scene of an auto accident where he was being attacked by “two black guys.”

In the book, the two black men are mugging Gerardo when Russell intervenes. In the documentary, this is the genesis of the undercover work. In the book, Russell has been on the job for months, looking for a way to infiltrate the mob.
Posted By: DoctorTwink

Re: biggest mob documentary bullshitter - 07/07/14 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: mulberry
Has to be Joe Pistone. From the $500,000 contract to the claims that he took down the entire Bonanno family, this guy is full of manure. How many guys actually went to prison as a direct result of his work? Maybe half a dozen low level mobsters? Pistone even takes credit for the Commission Case. He's still walking around with those stupid shades, as if someone is going to whack him over what he did 35 years ago.


Was Joseph Pistone really Italian? He was adopted by Italian-Americans, and he claims Pistone is a Sicilian last name when it's both a Sicilian, Neapolitian, and Calabrian last name depending on where the people live in Italy.

But it's like how Ray Liotta claims to be "Italian" even though he's not and was just adopted by people who are Italian-American.
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