Lucchese Family downfall (Post Corallo)

Is it fair to say that the family fell apart because of the lack of experience in the upper echelons - compared to say the Genovese Family?

Amuso was pretty old when he was made boss but still young enough by boss standards; a psychopath too. Other psychopaths like Pitera and De Meo never got near the position of boss while another psychopath Galante ostracized himself from the rest of the Bonanno family and was taken out before he could nail down position as boss.

You compare it to guys with longevity like Gambino, Castellano, Gigante and Massino who stayed in power for so long because they had cooler heads and surrounded themselves with very old and experienced guys.

Getting back to my point - while guys like Avellino, Baratta and D'Arco were in their fifties at their peak, this was still young enough in Mafia terms and Avellino was Corallo's driver and D'Arco was only made not long before he made acting boss.

What I'm saying is that Amuso and Casso did not compliment each other at all - unlike say Castellano and Dellacroce. There was nobody to rein in the other guy when he was losing his head.

Opinions?

Amuso and Casso were probably the worst boss/underboss combination of all time. I wouldn't say it was because they were young, more because they were complete paranoid psychopaths who should've never been anything more than capos.

I'm surprised Corallo chose Amuso as his successor, you would think he would've made a better choice. They didn't destroy the family though, seems like Crea has stabilized them since taking over.

They were greedy and trigger happy. Perhaps the two worse traits you can have as a modern mob boss.

Little paranoid to no!

I think after reading the recent files on gigante he was as much a phyco as amuso and gas. and I think because the two families came closer after the big Paul hit they tried hard to impress chin. they knew chin was responsible for all the murders in philly. bannans and his butt crack of 20$$$. plus throwing the drug dealing brothers off the roofs to death. the way he treated morris Levi was cold. fat tony took pic with his kids.

I don't know how we got this great quote from chin saying I don't break my captains I kill my captains.

If I remember correctly, Christie Tick pushed for Amuso to be made boss. Ducks knew he was going away for life so I don't think he put up much opposition to the proposal.

Kinda off topic but did it bother anyone else in the Casso book that there was almost nothing in there about Christie Tick?

Yeah, it bothered me too. I wish the bulk of the book would have focused on the late Sixties and Seventies-era Lucchese family operations and mob personalities. Instead, we get to hear how "Anthony made slow sweet love to Lillian that night" bullcrap.

If Carlo had any real kind of access to Casso for this book he missed a good chance to write a great mob novel. I think Carlo was writing a book to later be turned into a movie. The dialogue in that book makes my stomach turn, god awful imaginary bullshit that Carlo dreamed up. No disrespect to the dead, I just thought he authored two of the worst mob books ever.

Corallo originally picked buddy luongo to be his successor but amuso whacked him , I agree amuso and casso were crazy and never should have been boss and underboss , there ways sent everyone running into the arms of the Feds . Maybe things would have been different if luongo was not whacked

The worst pick ever Vic never should have been boss, a little weak if u ask me to let that crazy ass gaspipe try to kill the whole family.

like dormwoods said, corallos first choice was Anthony 'buddy' luongo,he disappeared, and then he wanted casso, but casso declined and said vic amuso should be the official boss.

Was -good looking sal- Vitale particularly old and experienced? He certainly wasn't hard to flip when the time came.

According to Vitale, Massino had shelved Vitale and wouldn't allow him to earn. He was "Underboss" in name only.

The downfall of the Lucchese family was RICO and the Commission case, period. It all began with Joe Pistone, and then when the Lucchese hierarchy was imprisoned, the ensuing paranoia of Amuso and Casso while empowered with inside information on who was a confidential informant caused a purge. Amuso and Casso probably really wanted to get all of the rats out of the Lucchese family, but when they began to whack everyone, maybe even more people turned, and then RICO was then finally used on Amuso and Casso. Complete destruction.

What does Pistone have to do with the downfall of the Lucchesse's he was undercover in the Bonanno family. If your saying Pistones part in the comission case had to do with it I don't think he was all that important in the evidence for the commission case I mean yeah his work was part of it but there was a lot more important evidence in that case then what came from Pistone.

I'm just coming off of reading Donnie Brasco: Unfinished Business.

Basically Pistone claims that his 6 year deep cover operation ensnared mobsters from multiple families, including the Luccheses. He actually met with Tony Ducks Corallo and testified that Ducks was the Lucchese boss. Remember that RICO is about conspiracies which is collaboration. Different families collaborated together. Basically Pistone met with Ducks as a Bonanno associate, and then helped put Ducks away by testifying, thus lopping off the Lucchese leadership. In that leadership void, the Lucchese's fell into chaos.

How old was buddy luongo when he was killed?he was a bronx guy,yes?

I think Casso should've got a co-author credit on that book. I've always thought he edited it.

In the Lucchese's case, I think their downfall was simply no leadership...when Ducks went away, it was all over but the crying.

It wasn't a lack of leadership it was down to bad leadership and bitching , wen casso and amuso where on the lamb , guys were backbiting to them about potential rivals trying to get them whacked

Dom...are you saying that casso and amuso were ok, just that those under them weren't, or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

They were in the leadership positions but they were just awful leaders and totally paranoid and trigger happy , the colombos have suffered from a lack of leadership over the years , that's the difference I was trying to make pal

I never read any of his books so this is the first time i ever heard that. But I highly doubt "Donnie Brasco" a Bonanno associate ever met with Tony Ducks. I don't really believe much of what Pistone says. I find it pretty surprising that he doesnt brag about meeting with Tony Corallo in one of his many redundant interviews. But that aside the jaguar tapes from Avellinos car were more responsible for convicting Corallo than any testimony from Joe Pistone.

A Bronx guy yes. He was 46 or 47 when he was killed.

how can any family survive a casso, he was one of the most murderous men in oc history, completely homicidal, this nut case would have ruined any family he was associated with.

Thanks HK,i allways thought he was older,like well over 50.He must have been a big time capo in order for corallo to hand him over the top spot.

Before vic & gas lucchese's were one of the most peacefull families.After Tony ducks it was the wild wild west.

and who made it that way? without casso that family stood a chance. wasn't there anybody in that family that could see the handwriting on the wall with this maniac.

Between Buddy and Mikey Salerno, the Brooklyn faction of the family has earned a lifetime's worth of contempt from the Bronx faction (who, by the way, are still firmly entrenched in the driver's seat, regardless of the online cheerleaders from Brooklyn who were predicting a "blood bath" when the two Georges came home ).

Re Ducks and Pistone: I don't believe that Ducks sat with Pistone for one second. And let me be clear to whoever posted it: I believe that Pistone wrote it in one of his books, so it's certainly not you who I don't believe. But Pistone is an ego driven asshole who can't stand it that his five minutes were up a long time ago. Is it any wonder why his latter two books were written at the height of Sopranos mania?

Most def casso and vic did that,nobody else.In al d'arco's book his mentioning mike salerno's social club somewhere in the north bronx(am not sure where)was that the crew steve crea was in?(read somewhere his turf was yonkers/bronx)

Not to jump off topic but You wonder why the genovese family remains the most powerful and successful of all the other 5 families. Correct If I am wrong but I don't think the genovese family has ever had a internal civil War or an official boss whacked out. Funny how two of the smaller families, the lucchese's and the colombo's were the wildest bunch in the late 80's early 90's.

Regarding Corallo appinting Luongo acting boss...According to the government, and I think this came up during one of Furnari´s appeals, Furnari met with other members of the Lucchese Family hierarchy to select successors. This was during the end of the Commission trials when the bosses already knew they were finished. According to D´Arco and two other sources, the meeting participants decided on a new administration and that Anthony Luongo would pose a threat to it and therefore should be killed. Casso and Amuso were reportedly instructed to murder Luongo, which they did. I don´t know if Luongo had been appointed acting boss prior to that meeting but it seems to me, judging by what the government claimed in that appeal, that Luongo was killed because he was not willing to accept the new administration. It also seems to me that Corallo very well knew, and actually approved of his murder.

That does make a lot of sense HK,but still those two must have been very powerfull at that time,couse a lot of capos were passed over for the top spot.

Well, he had the candy store on Gun Hill, he had the after hours on East 237th, and he had his storefront (which is probably the "club" you're referring to) next to the old A&M Bakery on White Plains Road. Plus, he had numbers spots dotted all over Wakefield, from Nereid Avenue all the way to Baychester. Mikey was a behemoth in numbers. He was an earner, an old school gangster, and he was NO RAT. Casso should get tortured for ordering the death of that old man. He wasn't a threat to anyone. It was all out of jealousy and greed. Casso wanted the dump in Pennsylvania for himself. There was NO OTHER REASON.


Stevie, Joey G, TJ, Blue Eyes, and virtually the entire Bronx Lucchese crew of that generation came up under Mikey Salerno or Johnny Peanuts (who was Mount Vernon based until he got murdered in his own house).

Ok i understand,thanks pizza for the info..what does really mean "after hour club",this probably is a dumb q,and am sorry about that,but as i picture it there's gambling going on in there(card games,poker,dice...).And it's all late into the night.Am i close?

Yeah, it's usually just an illegal bar that opens up on the weekends when the legal bars are forced to close because of the liquor laws, which in New York is at 4am.

There's usually gambling, and back before AIDS became rampant you could usually find a hooker or two (or so I've heard ).

Hehehe alright thanks pizzaboy,over here aids came a little later,so a hardworking man could enjoy a decent hooker well into the late 90s or so I'VE heard (being that i was like 5 then)

just my 2 cents yes I think tony ducks gave the order to kill lounge. read there started to become a rift between ducks and his underboss santoro. theres no way amuso and casso kill the guy when cris tic in there ear telling them there gonna be next up. plus I read there was a meetng between ducks and chin probably to tell him he steped down and to avenge big pauls hit. I read amuso was loungos driver and was in his crew, it always the closest guy to you to whack. think chris tic had ducks ear at the time and seen the Bronx guys trying a powerplay. wasn't tony ducks crown jewel was planting flags all over long island

I understand what you were trying to say now, and I agree. Do you think a lot of the blame should fall on Ducks for not keeping a better handle on things when he went away? The Luccheses certainly had enough old school guys that could have lead either by committee or as a singular boss.

According to Pistone he was single-handedly responsible for the Commission Case. All the bugs in Paulie's house, the Jag, the Palma Boys, the commission meeting photos, the testimony from other FBI agents and turncoats had nothing to do with it.

Absolutely. He was just as culpable as Amuso and Casso for giving birth to their reign of terror. And I have no problem believing that he was the one who ordered Buddy Luongo hit.

If Tom Mix didn't get wrapped into that RICO with the rest of that administration, he never would have let it happen.

mulberry, why do indivuals keep trying to take credit for the commission case. you've laid it out correctly in three posts, in the book by raab it clearly states no one person was responsible for the convictions, piston is posturing incorrectly again. doesn't this man know hes already used up his 15 minutes of fame. why cant anybody get it. it took many things to put together this high profile case, and pistons name is never mentioned in raabs {"the five families"} in relation to this case.

But Mix was tired of the bullshit and said to vic hey trix are for kids beotch

Looks like Furnari was released.

http://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/

whack jersy nuff said

He survived a 100 year sentence

In his book, Pistone himself states that the best evidence came from a tape recorder. Dude's got an ego, no doubt, but I think someone's putting words in his mouth in this case.

Too bad Pistone didnt have a longer neck, he would actually be able to blow himself in the literal sense.

The true power of that Family has always been with the Bronx and East Harlem factions. Buddy Luongo was named acting boss and with the Commission trial winding down, Vic and Gas chose an opportune time to remove him permanently. Ducks, Tom Mix and Christie Tic wouldn't have time to sort the mess so they made their move. The power shift to Brooklyn set that Family back 50 years. Also keep in mind they ousted Mariano Macaluso and Neil Migliore from the administration (underboss and acting consigliere) once they took over.

Corallo was the one on wiretap who said there was "no way" that their thing was going to last another 10 years. And this was in the '80s.