Family with the fewest rats (past 40 years)

In may be biased, but I nominate Buffalo
Paddy Calabrese
Tony Mastrocco
Ron Fino
John Sacco
That's about it

Chicago and Genovese

are you the new boss of Rockford?

No...turned it down

(it's no mystery, think Peanuts...but I digress)

Detroit partnership have only ever had one rat , nove tocco

"Paddy Calabrese"

Was there really a guy named that? Isn't that like being named Dago McKinley or something like that.

Haha no bs on i was on a float trip one time and met a mexican with an irish accent.fukn hilarious.but dago mckinley is great

He was one of the first, if not the first guy to ever be placed in the witness protection program. There was a movie called "Hide in plain sight" which was based in part on his true story
"Paddy" is a nickname for Pasquale
Buffalo had two Paddys
Terzini and Calabrese

Hahahahahaha

Poorly asked question.

A now defunct family like Rockford which has historically had 20 odd members (at a guess, and no I dont care what the real number is, this is just an illustration) has had a total membership of (during its lifetime as an active family) 2-3 generations ie (2.5*20) 50 made guys in its ranks over the life of the family.

This compared with the Genovese family which has approx 275 guys as an historical avg. So 275*2.5=687 odd members.

Each has had a similar number of rats but in the above context there is a marked difference.

So Rockford has had a 10% 'infestation' with the Genovese less than 1%

First...Rockford is not defunked

Second..NY is now and has has been full of rats since the late 70s, becuse from around 76 to 1995, they would make a broken bag of shells, like Domonic Bretti for example, and promote it to Capo a few years later...so NY was never in the scope of the question to begin with.

But, if you would like to address the question on a "per capita" basis, go for it.

New Orleans never had a rat. BOOM

End of discussion.

But even you have to admit that the Genovese are a cut above the rest of the NYC families. They are one family that doesn't make any old mope that hooks up with them.

I've always wonders who the Buffalo soldier was that the Caan film is based on. Thanks.

I would say you are correct, while IMO the Colombos are the worst

No problem...It was a gritty relitivly low budget movie, which to me was what made it pretty cool

Hummmm...Interesting...does that include the Dallas faction too?
I have some nagging memory of one of the Dallas guys flipping at some point

I don't think the Dallas family was ever officially under the thumb of New Orleans. It was more of a Milwaukee & KC relation to Chicago.

And the Colombos are definitely the worst example of NYC when it comes to rats. They were devastated by informants in the nineties.

That. Case Closed.

The Colombos & Philadelphia are by far the worst. Snitching isn't just a culture in Philly, it's a way of life.

Arm,

who was Tony Mastrocco, and where was he from ?

The Luccheses and Bonannos each have only a couple less members having flipped than the Colombos.

He was from Rome NY, he was a Buffalo associate who reported directly to Benny Carcone and he practically sank the Falange (Utica) crew by whining to his girlfriend on the phone while in Oneida County Jail, being a mole for Bretti and the Colombos through that fat fuck Teeter Nole, and later being an FBI informent when Benny found out he was leaking info to Bretti and engenged one of the old local 442 guys to whack him. He is either dead or somewhere out in the WPP.

thanks Arm. had never heard of Tony Mastrocco before.

No problem...if memory serves me right he may have also testrified against Bretti, D'Ameco and Nappi in the Grillo murder. I know he was at least questioned. I can't remember a case when such a low level punk caused so much greif for two failies.

there was a lot of activity in the rome/utica area, wasnt there ? seems to still be alot going on there.

Alwyas has. Valachi testified to over 30 made guys in the area.
In then late 70s and early 80s it was the eastern front of the A-B-C wars, and later became a war zone of it's own. Buffalo Loyalists vs Rochester seperatists and Colombos and Buffalinos looking for an in to the area. Old timers coming out of semi retirement, Mad Dog Sullivan being called in against Buffalo, The commission resusing to make a ruling (Tony Ducks quoted as saying "I don't give a shit who runs those cow towns)Two women in the body count, a third nearly beathen to death, a lawyer(Totally against the rules)whacked by the Colombos and an attempt on a second one's life and in the end,that was more than the Feds could take and 14 guys from 3 families went to Prison.

Today there is a lean mean group of mostly young Buffalo associates and Turning Stone casino and construction thanks to the stimulous has reserected the area. Local 442 is no longer but local 35 still exists.
I hear a lot of talk about Bosnians, but no idea what that is all about

Arm, venture a guess on how many made guys in the area. then give me your opinion on how many made guys in the buffalo family today.im guessing at least 50.

In Utica/Rome, I can tell you for sure, there are 5....another 3 in Syracuse.
All of Buffalo...I would say around 50 is accurate
You are going to hear people claim as low as 10 to 15, those people are what I like to call...wrong.
They are not seeing the big picture
Albany
Middletown
Utica/Rome
Syracuse
Rochester
Hamiltion
Both sides of the Falls
Toronto
Erie/Ohio
Vegas
Arizona
Florida

If youre including in your estimate of 50 buttons the ndrangheta clans that operate in and around Hamilton and Toronto and who dont give a flying fuck what Buffalo says (or have even heard of Buffalo) you may be close in your estimate of 50.

Otherwise you're delusional, or you know something everyone else in the world doesn't.

I know which way Im leaning.

i think the Arm makes a good point. the buffalo family is quite large geographically. thats why i tend to agree with his numbers

We don't need to guess. And 50 is way inflated. The FBI compiled a chart of remaining Buffalo members back in 2006 which showed 23 members remaining. A few have died since then so it's probably around 20 now.

The FBI compiled a chart..bzzz...You will never learn will you?

There is no such organization as ndrangheta...but if you are talking about the heroin addicted cigertte smugglers who sell Cognac out of the trunks of cars they got from the US with no tax stamp at $15 a bottle and are so strung out they use bikers as muscle, who you have elevated in your mind the way kids do the boogie man....50 is about right
I was actually talking about made Buffalo guys in the areas I mentioned

Correct
The disconnect is, as it has always been since the late 70s, is that "Buffalo" spans far beyond Erie County

Ndrangheta is simply a term to describe the ndrine's (family or cell's) geographical history. IE from Calabria.
They operate almost exactly the same way Cosa Nostra does, that is as independent, organized families who can and often do collude in criminal enterprises.

The largest being Narcotics.

Ontario and Quebec Italian OC has VERY strong links to Calabria and Sicily. I doubt anyone from Buffalo has had Italian connections in 25years (If ever).

To assume that in Ontario's Italian population of close to a million that there would be no Italian OC beyond a few crack heads selling cakes out of their trunks is beyond absurd.

To assume that it would also report to buffalo is even more so.

You were referring to 'elevated in your mind', the mirror might be a good place to start.

look at his "numbers" for pittsburg, something nobody no matter how delusional would bother to entertain even for a second. 17 soldiers, 3 capos, boss ect. compare that with 2 rats and an old man. see the problem? believe what sounds good to you, but ask yourself how even if his shtick were true would it make sense. how would an associate who according to his own words "left the life" decades ago know the current scoop in an area where he doesn't claim to live any longer? does he call the corporate office and get a yearly update? how can someone on one hand claim how secretive these guys are yet claim to know the inner workings?

the fbi is far from perfect and they claimed less than 25 made guys a few years ago. that number may not be right on the money, but do you really believe the real number is more than twice their estimate? don't buy into the misinformation hype. why would the fbi put out misinformation on a "family" that is down to some scattered residual organized activity? what's the upside? what would they gain?

I'm just sitting here.....looking for a pat on the head and something like "Good Job LaLou, Nola had no rats, and you blew all the fan boys out of the water by ending this debate in two sentences."

I'm asking for too much huh?

Good job LaLou

Go suck on a Po' Boy. How's that for a pat on the head?

LOL, Thanks PB, But no Po-boy for me, going grab a few Central Street Mufalattas this weekend in the French Quarter

Your creepy obsession is matched only by your lack of a clue. Your questions and statements are so flawed they defy comments
Here's an idea, why don't you catch your breath, unclinch your fists and form some cohernet questions, perhaps I can educate you

if you are going to comment on what I say, it might be a good idea to actually comment on what I said, as opposed to what I didnt
You are correct about one thing, Ndrangheta is a term used to describe a loosly connected group of criminals, most of whom have never had contact with each other.
I never claimed they "report to Buffalo"...they dont
These guys are a formatable presence in Europe...but in Canada, they are a joke
I know this becuse I have witnessed the strung out junkies and their "operations" first hand....it's pathetic.
There are more formatable suburban teeneage street gangs

Well done sir

And it's a good idea. You just educated him on how to earn a two week's vacation from the boards.

Listen, nobody expects these boards to be a church social. With so many pissing contests going on it is inevitable that some tempers will be lost and some angry words will be said. It happens. But when one member constantly flames others with snide remarks (see above) it is time to step in and correct the problem. This is step one.

Well said SC. The only reason the OC section hasn't imploded is because of good moderating, after a few comments from someone like TheArm, you can tell he'll last a few months at the most.

Barack's 2nd term is almost up.

Vote 1 SC for president.

Of the world.

Thanks SC. I like to think I have a fair amount of patience, but man, that guy makes me run out in a hurry! Even though I'm still new here I really appreciate the way you guys run this place. You only step in when it gets ridiculous.

I know i sometimes say controversial things that spark debates, but I hope you guys understand that I don't have any malicious intent. I actually pretty much like everyone here (even though some of you mock my nationality hehe ).

ARM. I THINK THE PERCEPTION/VIEW U HAVE OF THE CALBRIANS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT. UNIMPORTANT, JUNKIES.ETC...BUT THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH REPORTS AND EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THE DIRECT OPPOSITE.
THEIR PRESENCE AND POWER IN EUROPE GIVES THE CLANS IN ONTARIO REAL POWER. THE MAJORITY OF THE CLAN LEADERS IN ONTARIO REPRESENT THEIR FAMILIES IN SIDERNO, THESE ARE NOT CANADIAN BORN GANGSTERS (FILOMEGNIS ETC)

This Chart with the rats in all the Families of the American Cosa Nostra:

Genovese 5 rats
Gambino 10 rats
Bonanno 13 rats
Lucchese 15 rats
Colombo 15 rats

Philly 16 rats
Patriarca 7 rats
DeCavalcante 3 rats
Rochester 4 rats
Buffalo 3 rats
Pittsburgh

KC,SL,and the other families left 1 rat

It can get a little confusing if one makes a distinction between guys who flipped in more recent times and guys way back when who were later found to have been secret informants. If you include the latter, the numbers would naturally go way up.

I believe the picture you have for Nick Calabrese ( Chicago )is actually Butch Petrocelli.

Neither did Dallas. Booyah

somebody that only listens to the fbi should know that informing is a new phenomenon

yeah valachi had his hearings but massino didn't flip until the 2ks

to stay on topic......there's no excuse for philadelphia's rat numbers

Buffalo had 4 by my count, But Mastrocco had pretty much turned and aligned himslf with the Colombos by the time he actually testified, so 3 is a fair assessmant as well