Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs

Since the Black Guerilla Family thread turned into a thread about biker gangs, I've decided to create a seperate thread on this topic.

Hells Angels and to a lesser extent Satudarah are really the only biker gangs of note in Europe (where I come from) and in Canada. In the USA the other big OMG's (Pagans, Outlaws, Bandidos, Mongols, Vagos, Sons of Silence) seem to play a much larger role in organized crime.

It would be interesting to hear from people who have already dealt with biker gangs themselves. Who they think is the most powerful, dangerous, violent,...
The FBI once classes OMG's as the third major type of organized crime in the USA, behind the traditional American mafia and the Eurasian organized crime groups. Is this claim justified (speaking strictly about the US)?

All depends the area your in.my vote for most violent would go to pagans or outlaws.go to martinsburg wva or winchester va and u have warlocks all over the place. The warbird warlocks not philly warlocks.there are also HA outlaws and pagans in and out the area.the warlocks will get together and roll out in a second wen pagans are spotted tho.i hve seen that but i didnt know they didnt get along till then

Funny story warlocks crabfeast 2002i or3 i got blacked out drunk at 17years old.stripped of everything but my shoes and socks and then woke up by my uncle n a bunch o warlocks telln me lets go get drinks the the drag races in the field or sumthn startn i was walked the prolly 50yards butt ass naked with no idea until i got to the drink tent.people were stopn me n posin for pics n shit it was pretty crazy but sooooo much fun.cant wait till the next big party

I also saw a programme about the Warlocks. They seemed like tough but generally good guys that love throwing a party. Pagans and Outlaws on the other hand came across as absolutely crazy

Yea they def are.pagans ran HA outta philly.warbird warlocks are good guys for the most part and if ur friendly with em they have your back 100percent. My uncle is in the martinsburg/inwood ch.dnt wanna say his name in the open tho but hes pretty crazy.he only prospected for 4or5minths n was full patch.also close to helltown/frnt royal chapter.ive watched em roll en mass to there cus2pagans were in town.....lol ive also seen 2 warlocks make 6guys take off there sons of anarchy cuts in inwood wva.dnt wear a 3piece patch if ur not a 1%.they dont like that shit

Yea they def are.pagans ran HA outta philly.warbird warlocks are good guys for the most part and if ur friendly with em they have your back 100percent. My uncle is in the martinsburg/inwood ch.dnt wanna say his name in the open tho but hes pretty crazy.he only prospected for 4or5minths n was full patch.also close to helltown/frnt royal chapter.ive watched em roll en mass to there cus2pagans were in town.....lol ive also seen 2 warlocks make 6guys take off there sons of anarchy cuts in inwood wva.dnt wear a 3piece patch if ur not a 1%.they dont like that shit

The Outlaws are the main ones in Illinois.

I am familiar with two of these gangs,And i have the same experince as Tommy.Three of the wheels of soul gang workrd for me for 20 years.Two of them black one white .The one was Pres of south jersey chapter other was black guy was sergeant of arms. White guy was a hang a round he is now full patch.

The guy that was pres. in still in but he lives in N.C. now so he can,t hold the top spot. The guy that was sarg. left the chapter about 10 years ago. The white guy is very active .and still works for me.

Pagans : A guy i went to school with that got killed at a young age his brother and i became close and through the years he drifted into the biker life.In mid to late 90s he moved up to pres spot in the south jersey chapter. He is not that any longer . I have spoke to him recently he called to see if he could hunt on some property i have out in EHT .

But i have only good words to say about all these hard working family men, all good people.The guy that was pres. of wheels has 14 kids.Dam i guess he had to work hard he is retired now down south...

Mmost are hard working normal guys.they just wear a patch.but like any group ull always have people that r bad

Hey guys great to see this thread. anyway I think I was a little biased towards the Hells Angels in my last post. They do indeed have some real scum bags working for them. there is a full patch member I think he is from NYC but I could be wrong. His name that he goes by is Dirty Diamond Don or Triple D. He is a stereotypical pimp. All of his girls are young drug addicts, which he beats in typical pimp fashion (burnings, slashing a girl with a straight razor, and beating them with his fists). He is a great example of how white pimps can be just as bad as any other ethnic group.

I agree that although all the 1%'s have scumbags in them, people join the clubs for different reasons. Some join to make money and others join to live a degenerate lifestyle. Clubs like the Hells Angels tend to recruit money men while the other clubs such as the Outlaws go for the biggest, sickest, assholes they can find. The Outlaws do have guys that are business minded (ex. Mark Polchan of Chicago, but in my personal life experience, they tended to be more reckless and violent than any of the other 1% clubs.

I forgot who mentioned it, I think it was Scorsese, that many of the smaller outlaw clubs tend to be more violent. In my personal experience, this statement rings true. The Breed as I previously mentioned is the worst group I have personally encountered. The Devil's diciples are not much better.

Here is a recent indictment involving the Rochester chapter of the Hells Angels.

http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-release...ine-trafficking

This indictment is a great example of how the Feds make these guys look really dangerous and there are a ton of charges so it looks really bad. However, when you actually look at these charges we are talking about a few grams of meth sold here another few there. the headlining charge in this indictment involves an assault where several members of the HA were involved. I know all the guys indicted so I thought I would tell their version.

There is a female bartender at the bar Spenders on Lyell Avenue, who is a friend of the club. She was being harassed by a drunken guy who tried to pick her up, and when she spurned his advances he started to get nasty. She warned him to shut up but he would not stop. He threatened her and then he started threatening her HA friends. She then proceeded to call her HA buddies who came down and beat the guy half to death. I know the Feds would say an act like this helps to further the reputation of the Angels. My rebuttal is the HA have established themselves. Everyone on the planet knows them. they do not need to beat up some asshole to maintain their reputation. I do not think this act should be included as a RICO predicate act. I think many of the RICO cases fail against the HA because many of them are just like this. the government paints these guys as criminal masterminds, but the evidence shows them to be a bunch of slobs who like to get high and get into fights.

Another scam the Rochester guys are involved in is stealing scrap metal. A Rochester guy just got sentenced for doing this.

http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-release...nt-from-railcar

Thnx for the post Gingello!
Several HA chapters are almost entirely dedicated to organized crime (British Columbia, Amsterdam, Trois Rivières, Turkey and Hannover), but there are more chapters that are barely involved in these activities. What people forget is that the men behind these chapters are gangsters that happen to be HA members. They use the notoriety that comes with the brand name to conduct their criminal activities, but that does not make an entire club a criminal organization.

The FBI once classes OMG's as the third major type of organized crime in the USA, behind the traditional American mafia and the Eurasian organized crime groups. Is this claim justified (speaking strictly about the US)?

No. Absolutely not. The days of nationwide speed rings, importing B.C. Bud, hookers in every strip club, bombings, and scaring the hell out of the Mafia are mostly over for the Hells Angels and the Warlocks and Pagans (I have family in the latter two). Motorcycle gangs are always scoffed at when they claim they are not a criminal organization but that's true in many ways. They are organizations with criminals in them but they aren't criminal organizations. There are as many guys working construction busting their ass everyday as making money in drugs and guns. Most of their members are 50 and over nowadays and they haven't really tried to recruit from the younger generation. I don't think they have the same taste for the kind of violence it takes to run a dirty business in today's market.

Alot of the Pagans and Warlocks I know do trade on their notoriety by having businesses that being seen as a "tough guy" helps. I know guys with bail bondsman/bountyhunter businesses, construction businesses, gun dealers, motorcycle shops, tattoo shops, things like that. Maybe an escourt service or two. But nothing as violent as the past. Too many of them died or are doing years for that stuff so I think the old guys have passed that on to the youngsters.

The American Bandidos have a new center patch now but the Bandidos outside America have the original Bandidos patch. Whats up with that?

Outlaw motorcycle clubs don't fit the criteria of Organized Crime groups.In a Mob family for example,every member is expected to conduct illegal activity and generate income from said activity. You get made because you are an earner,and in some cases,you have done "work" for the Organization.
You don't see Mob guys whose sole income source is a real job,or who never commit a crime.

In an Outlaw Motorcycle Club,you do have some criminal activity,and some members do more than others,but it's not an absolute must for getting your patch.The dominant Club in my area is the Pag*ns,and I know of at least two members who have no criminal records,work normal jobs,and are generally pretty cool people.They love to ride,love the brotherhood,and live and breathe the Club.

There's no question that some members are involved in criminal activity,but it is not across the board for everyone in the Club.If you choose to conduct an illegal business,you are expected to kick a piece upstairs,and not to involve the Club if you are caught,but it's your call to go that route.

So as not to seem too naive,I understand that if you are bringing in serious criminal money, you may move up in the ranks faster,and achieve a certain status, but again that is the members choice and not a requirement for getting patched.

Wasn't there a hells angel leader in nevada who got caught transporting a truck full of child porn and apparently they all still support him?

I think the problem is if there are law abiding members of an mc how far are they willing to go or tolerate criminal activities of those amongst there ranks or support those with serious criminal convictions.

I think manitoba was the first area or province to declare the HAs as a criminal organisation.

I cant remember the guys name but they talk about it on theagingrebel.com .there convinced he was framed apparently the guy owned a legal prostitution house to. Ive read the story but cant remember specifics.boodan of the warbird warlocks was just arrested for messn with. A 14yr old n giving her xanax.he was a well known respected biker all over.the organizer of bodans big ride but as soon as he was arrested the club dropped him.i was at my uncle when he got called n told about it n told bodan is off limits and not to be talked to.not all clubs will accept that

I also remembered that a member of the Dutch Hells Angels was arrested because a large share of kiddie porn was found on his computer. He was immediately dispelled from the organization and received multiple death threats in prison though.

Warlocks have had some pretty bad guys in their club in the Pennsylvania area such as mud man simons, robert t nauss and they were even linked to some missing young girls that were later found dead in a swamp.

I agree 100% with BigRed. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you look at many of these indictments, the crimes charged are petty. If a normal person were charged with these types of crimes at most they would get a year in jail, but more likely they would get probation. Because these guys have patches they get 20 years when a normal person would get 1 year or less.

When I have talked to some of the Ha guys, they have conceded that many of the European chapters in particular Holland, is way more powerful than any US chapter. RICO is the biggest reason for this. In my opinion, when the HA members went north to talk to Mom Boucher and asked him to stop the violence, his response showed what influence the US Angels had on him. Since Mom essentially told them to go f**k themselves, clearly the US Angels had no say on what their international chapters do. I believe this was one of the pivotal moments when the Angels realized they could no longer control the club on an international level. I think the other 1% clubs have the same issues.

I believe you are referring to Dave Burgess,who was busted for the underage stuff. There is a reasonable doubt as to whether he was framed by Law Enforcement,and it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. If you do some research you can get both sides of the story and make up your own mind. As far as the HA,they would not support someone who they believed guilty of such a crime,so they must feel that it was a setup.

Generally speaking,a brother will always stand behind another brother in his Club.They do not snitch,or refuse to give aid to a brother in need. Your brother may not always be right,but he is always your brother.Dope dealing,extortion,murder,etc. are not the same as sex crimes involving kids. That kind of stuff is about the only crime that the Club will disown you for.

So i guess what you r saying that we have over zealous prosecutors judges police ect. And they judge people by there nationality" color" of there skin" and what clothes they wear.

I dont think they are the warlocks im talkn about.im talkn about the warbird born in fla.warlocks.i believe your referring to the philly based harpy patch warlocks.there are2clubs that use the warlocks name.

The pagans are the only club out of the big 5(HA,outlaws,mongols,pagans, bandidos) that dont have international clubs.

The Pag*ns are an unusual 1%er clubs in a number of ways.
They don't have a website.
They wear blue denim jackets as opposed to black leather (like most clubs).
They don't wear any bottom rocker on their colors.
They have no chapters outside the US, (but this may change,as there has been speculation that they may sanction a chapter in Germany sometime down the road).
For the most part the Paga*s have been content to remain low key and very selective as far as new members. Although the other major clubs bring in more money,the Paga*s have their own niche and territories,and do pretty well. The other clubs leave them alone due to their well deserved reputation for being able to "take care of business",and they are fine with that.

thanks for the info, didn't know that they were two separate clubs.

I found some good info on the pagans in pensylvania oc report from 1990, if you go down to pg206 theres an interview with a former pagan which goes through there culture and crimes also their altercation with members of the scarfo family.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/133208NCJRS.pdf

It may take a while to load up.and you may need to refresh it.

Here is an excerpt from one of Yves Lavigne's books about the Hells Angels. It talks about the connections in the past between the HA and the mafia.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_gvnXf...igo&f=false

I was wondering if anyone can think of any examples where the Hells Angels or any other 1% clubs worked as hitmen for the mafia. Other than the Joseph Bonariggo murder in Cleveland in 1980 I cannot think of any. Any documentary you see about the HA they always talk about how they sometimes work as hitmen. I call BS on that. I heard Frank Fencl, the guy who killed Bonariggo was not on great terms after the murder with the club. Despite what Lavigne says, the murder was not okayed by the club. Any input you guys can give would be appreciated.

Interesting post Gingello! Everytime I read about the connection between the Mafia and OMG's, they always claim the Pagans are the ones most connected with the mob. I'm sure other clubs have those connections as well.

Thanks KillingJoke. You are right many of the other 1% clubs have connections with the mafia. The Pagans have been connected to the Philly mob. I think Joey Merlino and Steve Mondervigone (sp.) grew up together. Sometimes it seems the Pagans and the mob were at odds (during the Scarfo era) and more recently they seem to be more amicable, especially after Merlino became boss.

The Outlaws have been connected to the Chicago Outfit. Recently, Mark Polchan a full patch member worked with Mike Sarno fencing stolen goods. In the 1980s, the Outfit murdered an Outlaw who threatened to kill Joey Aiuppa.

The angels seem to have had more contact with various mafia families than the other 1% clubs. I will say that these interactions are on a personal basis and they are not club sponsored.

One Percenter Clubs have always had relationships with OC Families. Most of the time,they are hired to collect debts (usually gambling or drugs)that can't be legally pursued.
They also will beat or kill individuals at the behest of the Mob,
move stolen motorcycles,and so forth.
This is not the same as working for the Mob. The relationship,if any,is usually on an as needed basis,and neither side is in any way obligated to the other.
Depending on the OC presence in a given area,the same Club will have some chapters that work with the Mob,and some that don't.
In Pittsburgh and Philadelphia,the Pag*ns have been involved with OC off and on for decades. Some people here (western PA)joke about the disproportionate number of Italians in the Pag*ns,saying that there are more Italians in the Pag*ns than there are in Rome. Maybe this has something to do with their OC connections.

Taking a look at Pagans arrests, the ones from the Philadelphia area indeed almost all have an Italian surname. When you look at the arrests from the South Jersey-West Virginia area have more "hillbilly" (by lack of a better term ) sounding names. But yeah, in Philly or New Jersey city areas they seem to be extremely influenced by Italians

Taco Bowman The President of the Outlaws were having disagreements with the Detroit Mob.

There's also issues of recidivism/repeat offending. Such as with the case you mentioned in which the HA beat up some drunk guy. That's all well and good, but that's still assault. People who commit arbitrary acts of violence and have a storied history of doing so (especially if they're members of a gang notorious for doing just that...) will almost certainly receive a longer sentence... And perhaps rightfully so.

I agree that this offence does't really qualify as a RICO statute, but let's be honest, they're splitting hairs. It's one charge out on a laundry list. The fact is most of these guys probably have RAP sheets as long as their arms. The fed can and will use whatever means they can to prosecute people/groups of people prone to repeat criminal behaviour, regardless of how they try to justify it.

Right or wrong, I find it kind if hard to have any sympathy for them.

Who makes more money when it comes to drugs Motorcycle clubs or the Mafia.?

Hey Botz it depends on who you are talking about. If you are talking about Italian OC s in from Italy, then they make way more money off drugs than the OMC's. If you are talking about the American mafia then the OMCs make more.

Hey Slumpy you are right these guys have very extensive rap sheets. I will agree to disagree with you about the importance of the Feds prosecuting these guys. I lived in Rochester NY for most of my life. Anyone from Rochester will tell you that 80-90% of the violence and drugs sold are from local street gangs. However, busting these gangs are a low priority as they do not bring the headlines that busting a bunch of aging Harley riders who occasionally get drunk and sniff a line or smoke a joint. I believe that the Feds should make arrests that improve the quality of life in a city not just to advance their own careers. This is my opinion. Furthermore, I know many of these guys on a personal level so I do not get all of my information from the Feds so I actually form my own opinions based on what I believe not what others believe.

I truly mean no disrespect slumpy, its just this case in particular is personal to me as I grew up with many of these guys and I do not demonize them the way the Feds would like me to. Finally, I agree that if these guys break the law they should be punished, just do not blame the group for the actions of one person. Not every Catholic priest is bad because a few were pedophiles, you get my point.

Killing : Don't think that it is just the Pagans per say.I think it has to do where masses are geographically.we are predominately in Pagans territory.
Back in the 60s and 70s there were a few Hells Angels down in Ventnor and Philly but it was mostly Pagans that were connected to our local guys.
Philly had the Wheels of Soul but they had a rough time branching out cos of the color of most of there skin,and they just did not have the pull.

Hey Serp were the Warlocks around then too? I heard they were but the Pagans pretty much drove them out.

I don't think so ,if they were you did not see them like the Pagans.I can remember back in 60s this black cycle club was coming to the city and they city shut down all the schools courts but for some reason i can't remember the club.I don't know if it was going to be a club to club fight or what ,but it was crazy in the city for a couple days. It was not Wheels of Soul, It was Big club and all over the news.So anyway that club was around and very large,there name was known ...

I just got" it it was the "Black Panthers Motorcycle club" and they were going to fight a rival club ,Dam it sucks getting old "but who ever that club was they were large also.I see guys on here search old news i don't know how.But it would be in the Atlantic city press late 60s early 70s....

yeah, I mentioned this in the other thread. biker violence tends to be disorganized and spontaneous. it's not like it's portrayed in the media with biker clubs taking part in a conspiracy where the members sit in a meeting plotting out crimes.

I agree America. I think people get the idea that these clubs are like the Sons of anarchy. Similar to how people think the real life mafia is just like the sopranos.

I just spent time talking with a long-time member of the Outcast MC. in the last few years they've had several deadly flare-ups with the Wheels of Soul MC. both are black outlaw MC's.

yeah, it's not like that at all. I heard an interview with former Hells Angel and Satan's Choice member of 46 years, lorne Campbell, and he went so far as to call it "disorganized crime", which I think is more accurate.

Ameri : I never herd of them, but i am up on the (Wheels) had a few working for me for a very long time. One white guy still active still works for me.

I will PM u something cos you may b able to fill in something.

Also the club way back was" Black Panthers "

ok, sounds good i'll look out for your PM. I'm not familiar with the Black Panthers MC. I looked up their name in the One-Percenter Encyclopedia but didn't see them mentioned. The Wheels seem to be expanding into new territory, for instance I've seen some in Atalnta which is Outcast MC stomping grounds since at least tbe 70s.

The Hells Angels may be famous but what club would u consider fierce?

None, history has proved that a 4 wheeled vehicle versus Five 2 wheeled vehicles will result in the 4 wheeled vehicle winning in chicken.

From what I've read and seen about the USA, there was a period the Outlaws and Pagans seemed to be absolutely out of control and ruthless. Mongols, Bandidos and Sons Of Silence were/are up there as well.

In Europe in the Netherlands and Northern Germany the Hells Angels can be extremely dangerous, but they're generally pretty sneaky about it. Two cases come to mind: in Holland the Limburg-based Nomads chapter of the Hells Angels once tortured a Colombian drug trafficker to death, cutting his head off, chopping up his body and dispoosing of him after stealing his narcotics. This case lead to settling of internal disputes in the HA Holland.
In Kiel, Northern Germany, they discovered a torture chamber owned by the Angels. A rival drug trafficker was found slaughtered in that chamber. These sets can be pretty bad.
In Trois Rivières and especially British Columbia the Angels can be just as brutal, the Vernon Greeks case proved that.

The other main European club Satudarah has been linked to vicious cases as well. They were linked to the "Tattoo Killers", a crew of contract killers of mostly Moluccan descent that were involve in an array of murder and maimings for hire

New story on the philadelphia outlaws. Are they on good terms with the pagans?

MARYLAND MEN SENTENCED IN PHILADELPHIA OUTLAWS MOTORCYCLE CLUB METH-CONSPIRACY CASE
MARCH 18, 2014
BY VAN SMITH


OMC patchMichael James “Maniac” Privett and Ronald “Bugs” Sells must be relieved their recent law-enforcement ordeals are now over – especially since the Maryland men, from Baltimore and Churchville, respectively, who pleaded guilty last May in Philadelphia federal court to participating in a methamphetamine conspiracy in connection with the Philly chapter of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club (OMC), received lenient sentences.

On March 13, U.S. District Judge Petrese Tucker gave Privett a sentence of time served and three years of supervised release, while Sells got 30 months in prison, followed by five years of federal supervision. Sells had been president of the Philly OMC, played a central role in the meth deal uncovered by the FBI’s operation, and was paroled in 1978 after a 1972 second-degree murder conviction in Ohio, according to court documents. Privett was the chapter’s “warlord,” or enforcer, according to court documents, and had threatened an FBI undercover operative over an unpaid meth debt involving Sells; he has prior assault, drug-possession, and accessory-after-the-fact convictions.

Privett, while awaiting sentencing on supervised release, restricted to his O’Donnell Heights/Graceland Park home in Baltimore, was convicted last fall of assault in Baltimore City, court records show.

Last summer, Maxine Radloff, described in court records as Privett’s fiancé, called his federal pre-trial services officer to say Privett “stole her vehicle and assaulted her” on Aug. 3, and “was charged with second degree assault, theft ($1,000 – $10,000), motor vehicle/unlawful taken, and unauthorized removal of property,” court documents state, adding that she believed he was using crack cocaine. As a result, a federal warrant for Privett’s arrest was issued, alleging he’d violated his release conditions, and he was back in custody by Aug. 13.

On Aug. 26, though, federal court records state that “Govt. and Defense have agreed to conditions of release” for Privett, and he continued on $50,000 bail – yet a month later, after Privett pleaded not guilty in the Baltimore City District Court case Radloff brought against him, he was found guilty of second-degree assault and received a three-year suspended prison sentence, three years of probation, and a $3,000 restitution order. That’s not the only money Privett now owes: on March 13, the same day he was sentenced by Tucker, Atlantic Financial Federal Credit Union sued him to collect nearly $4,000.

Privett’s attorney in Philadelphia, Jeffrey Lindy, did not return a phone call to discuss the case.

In 2008, 44-year Baltimore police veteran and Chosen Sons Motorcycle Club co-founder Norman Stamp was killed in a brawl at the Haven Place strip club in East Baltimore during a club gathering for the initiation of a new member: Michael Privett, according to press accounts at the time – though City Paper has not been able to confirm whether the initiate was the Philly OMC’s Privett or another man with the same name.

After Sells and Privett were indicted, in April a related indictment was filed, charging two more Philly Outlaws – Marylander Robert Mansfield and Joseph “Timber” Malcolm – in the meth conspiracy. Assistant U.S. attorney Robert Livermore is prosecuting both cases, and in court documents called Mansfield “a significant drug trafficker” in Baltimore who is the Philly OMC’s “main supplier” who “could obtain unlimited quantities of pure methamphetamine directly from a Mexican cartel.”

Malcolm and Mansfield allegedly gave Sells and the FBI undercover two pounds of meth on credit last January, and when they weren’t quickly paid, Sells, when visited by his creditors at his Churchville home, told them the undercover – who no one yet knew was actually working for the FBI – had the drugs and had not yet sold them. Malcolm “was on electronic monitoring and wearing an ankle bracelet” at the time, according to court documents, indicating he was under a court’s supervision, and did not go on a debt-collecting visit to the undercover, but he and Mansfield then allegedly had Privett threaten Sells and the undercover – and allegedly proceeded to threaten the undercover themselves, with Mansfield saying he was going to “have to start taking people apart” and Malcolm saying “your whole family is in danger,” according to court documents.

Sells, meanwhile, allegedly took pains to keep the OMC out of the meth-dealing picture. “This shit can’t be in the clubhouse,” he said of the meth, while talking to the undercover and other club members at his Churchville home. “If the bosses find out, I’m going to be dead and so are you.”

At the time, “Mansfield was on state parole in Maryland,” Livermore explained in court filings, and “had failed to report to his parole officer for many months. If convicted of these offenses, Mansfield faces a mandatory life sentence on account of his two prior drug trafficking convictions and the seriousness of the present charges.”

The case against Malcolm has been delayed because, as revealed in court documents in October, he is now a fugitive. Mansfield, though, pleaded guilty in October – whether he receives light penalties, like Privett and Sells did, will be learned at his sentencing, which is scheduled for late April.

Hi Scorcese. I have heard that the Outlaws get along with the Pagans. I would not call them friends though. I have heard they are friendly mainly due to the fact that they both hate the Hells Angels.

This brings me to my next point. When people talk about the Hells Angels they always talk about Sonny Barger. What many do not realize is that the HA in the USA has always been divided into two groups: the East and the West. During the 1960s until the 1980s, the Western Chapters saw Sonny Barger as top dog. In the east, they recognized and respected Barger, but they saw their true leader as Sandy Alexander, the boss of the NYC chapter. Alexander is the guy who sent his guys up north to Canada. He also had long standing ties with many of the 5 families. If anyone has any interest I would be happy to post more about Alexander and his ties to the Italians. Alexander is the guy who really escalated the war with the Outlaws, even more so than Barger. Alexander's tactics helped to make the Angels the number 1 club, but also the most hated club. His methods were well illustrated with the killing of his own brothers up north before Mom Boucher took over. It was Alexander's methods that Boucher really admired.

I think generally your right about the zero tolerance toward child abuse type crimes.

Here in Australia there was a HA, Chris Hudson, who triggered a biker war when he patched over from "the FINKS",(now patched over as a club by the "MONGOLS"). His defection set off numerous altercations including the all in brawl at a kickboxing event between the two clubs at a casino on the gold coast. (Type in "Ballroom Blitz" bikie fight on YouTube; good footage). This scumbag then went on a one man drug fuelled crime spree down Australia's east coast culminating in a broad daylight shooting in Melbourne's CBD of his stripper girlfriend and two innocent bystanders who tried to stop him from wailing on the girl, killing one and leaving bullets in the other two. Still, when he was on the run and ultimately on trial, his 81 brothers turned out to support him.

In contrast is this other guy, Terrence Tognolini, a full patch and office holder in Melbourne Chapter. This dude was a serious player involved in major narcotic manufacture and distribution and several murders. (See attached news article for more in depth profile on Mr.Tognolini
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/the-silent-enforcer/2006/09/23/1158431949691.html)
However when he was caught banging a couple of underage girls (read kids..cant remember exact details but they were like 11 or 12 years old)His chapter members beat him within an inch of his life, removed club tats with a blow torch and dumped him in a wheelbarrow where they wheeled him to the curb side waiting for hard rubbish pickup. Needless to say he was out bad.
Zero tolerance to messin with kids in Australia. Its good to see even the clubs have standards with this sort of thing.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/251834231.html?c=r

what are the rules of the pagans? will they seek vengence on this guy? also this guys father(the shooter) is in the philly pd organized crime task force if that means any thing.. the guy who was shot s father is a captain in philly Fire dept. ....how big are the pagans here in philly? warlocks ? outlaws?

Philadelphia Pag*ns are the real deal.They are very strong and have a great deal of juice with the cops and courts,just like here in Western Pa. As far as revenge on the shooter,it's a tough call. When Gorilla was shot by the 10th and O guys,no action was taken ,and this caused a rift in the Club.It is believed that the reason that he (Gorilla) stabbed Casual (chapter Pres, at the time)was because he couldn't get the Club brass to OK a revenge hit.
With the Brick shooting,who knows? If it really was a non-Pag*n related family dispute, it may pass. But from the article,it seems that the victim and several other Pag*ns showed up and tried to kick this guys door in. This can lead to an interesting dynamic. If they were wearing their cuts,then it could be considered Club business,and an attack on one is an attack on all. If they were wearing cuts,and went to help their brother kick some ass,it is amazing that the shooter wasn't dead at the scene.
If they were not wearing cuts,it can go a number of ways.In the OMG world there are generally accepted protocols,but without knowing more about this particular incident,nobody can really say what may or may not happen as a result.

These bikers are a bunch of trash

interesting , thanks Lou

Iron Horsemen vs. Detroit Highwaymen

Updated: Saturday, March 1 2014, 07:18 PM EST CINCINNATI

(Rich Jaffe) -- Cincinnati police as well as other law enforcement agencies promise to put an end to an increasingly violent turf war between what they are now calling two biker "gangs". Cincinnati Police Sergeant Bill Halusek says, "With the gun violence involved as well, it's to the point it's out of control and we're gonna do something about it." Clashes between the Iron Horsemen and the Detroit Highwaymen have been increasing over the last couple of years. Ever since the Highwaymen set up shop in what for years has been recognized in the motorcycle community as the "turf" of the Iron Horsemen. But in just the last few days that violence has taken a new turn, and law enforcement says they've had enough and are going to stop it. Monday at this point we were talking about an attack early Saturday morning at the Iron Horsemen's clubhouse in Covington. Multiple shots were fired there, and investigators say something akin to a "molotov cocktail" was thrown at the house. Tuesday we obtained surveillance video of the attacks that may have lead to that and police want your help to stop it before someone dies. The attacks began last Wednesday night just outside the Detroit Highwaymen's clubhouse at 8th and State in Lower Price Hill. It was around 11 o'clock when Iron Horsemen on two motorcycles rolled past and stopped. Cincinnati Police Sergeant Bill Halusek explained what we were watching in the surveillance video. "They stop at the red light and for whatever reason, Detroit Highwaymen gang members come out remove one of them from his motorcycle and steal his motorcycle." Moments later the Highwaymen roll the motorcycle into their clubhouse. Less than an hour later a group of Iron Horsemen rendezvous just up the street at the Shell gas station and apparently work out a battle plan. Police want the public's help identifying two men in particular who's faces can be clearly seen inside the Shell station. They also want to know who owns the big Ford Duelly truck seen in the video. The group piles into their vehicles and heads to confront their rivals just down the street. Initially there's shouting with the Highwaymen in front of the clubhouse. Then Highwaymen run for cover when police say the Horsemen open fire. Halusek tells us, "I won't legitimize them by calling them a club. They're a gang. When you look at the Ohio Revised Code and what a gang is these groups meet the definition to a "T". They are why that section of law was written." Saturday morning the violence shifted to the Iron Horsemen's Covington clubhouse. Cincinnati police say the violence is out of control and law enforcement is going to do something about it. They're putting both "gangs" on the list of targets for their initiative to reduce violence. Sergeant Halusek said, "We are not gonna tolerate it. That we will marshal every resource we have to end the gun violence. They've made themselves targets of ours now. They are big blips on our radar screen." Sergeant Halusek points out that multiple felonies were committed during the attacks on the Iron Horsemen. The theft of the motorcycle was also a felony. But he says the Iron Horsemen also committed felony offenses when they came back and fired at an occupied building. The question for everyone is what happens next? Police need the public's help identifying both the big, dark colored Ford Duelly. It's believed to be an F-450 and the two men on the video.

Read More at: http://www.local12.com/news/features/top...ymen-8791.shtml

a new all out war.

Outlaw Motorcycle gangs have changed a lot over the years. They started out as a bunch of drunk, rowdy vets then towards the '70s became more involved in the rackets. Most of the "clubs" now are somewhere in between. Most of the "chapters" are just a few heads deep and generally work independent from each other than when they ride together on "runs" to motorcycle rallies. A lot of guys have legit jobs doing construction or working on cars.

They sure are a lot more clean cut then they used to be. Most of the Hells Angels here in California are clean shaven jock-looking guys who usually dress in modern hip-hop style cloths. The other major clubs around here are the Mongols and the Vagos. These groups have a larger number of Hispanic members and identify more with "cholo" style clothes and tattoos.

I agree that the cops and the media really play these guys up like they are the top dogs in the underworld. While they do have some serious juice on the street, they hardly run the show. They still have to tow the line like every other gang and bow down to the M.

The Mongols found that out the hard way back when Doc was calling the shots from the club. They really got themselves in a mess. I don't know if the green light has been lifted, but I know that a lot of these act hard on the street with their colors on and their "bros" with them but when they hit County they PC up real quick.

This is what happen happens when you don't tow the line....

Two men were convicted of murder Wednesday in the October 2008 shooting death of Manuel Martin, a 30-year-old member of the Mongols Motorcycle Club.

Jurors found Richard Clayborne, 40, and Jose Gonzalez, 36, guilty of killing Martin, who lived in Venice, as he rode alongside another motorcyclist on the 2 Freeway in Glendale, authorities said.

http://homicide.latimes.com/post/two-men-convicted-killing-mongols-motorcycle-gang-member/







This guy Doc really had a pair. He thinks he can just take over the club, steal from the members, write a book, blab all about the club to the media, and finally start a war the Mexican Mafia! After its all done, he offers to throw everyone under the bus when the hammer finally comes down. I know he was already voted out of the club when he was indicted, but still...He is lucky his own guys didn't move on him. Apparently the Mongols don't kill their own guys even if they are in bad standing.

Hi Ignocio welcome to the boards. The word around LA is that the EME no longer has a green light on the Mongols. when they booted Doc from the club, that was enough for them. Hope he enjoys PC for the next ten years.

@Gingello101182

Thanks for the info. I had never heard of Sandy Alexander. Was he mentioned in the book that Sonny Barger wrote? I read it a long time ago so I kind of forget. Anyway, I did a search on him and found this maniac....


This guy was one sick puppy. Apparently back in the late 70s he killed some broad by throwing her off a 6 story building while a crowd cheered him on. In 1979, while out on bail he got murked by another member named Michael "Irish" O'Farrell out of the Oakland chapter. 10 years later, Irish himself was wasted by fellow tweaked out Angels.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-11/news/mn-3190_1_barger-national-leader-los-angeles-times

Don't know if any of you guys watched true detective but this guy reminds me of the serial killer at the end.

Whats he got around his forearms?

Vagos have affiliation with the Nazi Lowriders.

He got some leather armor/bracelet thing with chains. hahaha Look how small the drink in his hand looks. haha..Hes got some serious ink on him too. Thats some pretty good work, especially for the 70s.

To me, he reminds of Bronson from the movie Street Trash. He seemed like the same kind of guy too...

That's good to hear. I hope the peace lasts. I'm sure it will, cuz they sure learned their lesson.

I was curious because I haven't seen them around much lately. They are probably keeping a low profile these days. I used to see them deep on the freeways and in bars on Sunset. I don't know any of them personally, but I have an old friend who had family in the club. Its mostly Angels where I'm staying right now. As far as I know, they are still "on site" with Mongols if they happened to run into each other.

Hey Ignocio I know what you mean. The Mongols and Vagos still hang around Sunset on the weekends, but not in the numbers they used to.

From what I have heard from some of the guys who are full patch HA's is that the conflict with the Mongols has all but ceased since Doc stepped down. The Mongols had a meeting with some HA guys and blamed all the old beefs on Doc. The HA knew they were lying but decided to accept it. I am not saying the HA and the Mongols hold hands and sing we are the world, they are just not trying to actively hunt each other anymore. If one side feels disrespected things could pop off, but for now things are chill. I will post more about Sandy later. I think he was mentioned in Sonny's book but what people do not get is that the Angels east and west coast chapters only interact on mandatory runs. they basically have very little business together. what they do have is on a one to one personal basis. For example: member A from the East Coast buys speed from member B on the West Coast. There is no actual club business between them. The HA are like McDonald's as all their chapters are franchises. They share the same name and rules but they operate independently. There are some chapters that are not involved in criminal activity at all.

http://www.agingrebel.com/5020

A hells angel in springfield mass was convicted and sentenced to 3 life terms recently for a triple murder.
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/02/judge_said_adam_lee_halls_trip.html

Wow...Those cases were really sad. I had heard about the Oakland Hells Angel murder, but I never heard the whole story. That was intense.

http://www.agingrebel.com/9925

Everyone should read this, its really wild.


You were right, Gingello, the green light was lifted as soon as Doc was kicked out. That post I made about that Mongols murder being an EME sanctioned hit was apparently false. The Aging Rebel says it was done by Tooner Ville over a fight at a bar that was started by undercover ATF agents posing as Mongols. It says the agents got word from other cops that something was gonna go down that night, so they bailed out and let them get blasted. Then the next day they abruptly indict a bunch of Mongols in the middle of investigation.

Thanks, he looks some sort of sado masochist ( if I've spelt that right). Why did he throw the woman off the roof?

Check out this you tube vid. There are a couple of scenes with this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5nOs8qshM

Thanks for posting that. Its a great documentary. good footage of new york back then

I laughed when u said members of the vagos and mongols dressed cholo style, a lot of the Mongols and Vagos are growing out of the cholo look than what u saw before. Don't see any of the hells angels kids growing out of the hip hop style yet and they ride there bikes wearing shorts and tennis shoes. lol

I wanna hear some stuff bout sandy a.cant find shit except wats in the yves lavigne book

sex assault at wheels of soul clubhouse
http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2014/...ml#incart_river

If the black pistons are a support club for outlaws mc, why do they wear the state rocker with outlaws? are black pistons one percenters?

What do you mean? The same bottom rockers as the outlaws? Because the Outlaws allow them to. If they weren't backed by the Outlaws then they wouldn't be able to.

They are 1%s, but kind of like a farm team for the Outlaws to recruit from. They do the Outlaw's dirty work without attracting heat for them.

most support clubs don't have the state rockers

Sandy Alexander moved to NYC in 1967, shortly after returning from the Vietnam War, where he served in the Marine Corps. He joined a motorcycle club called the Aliens MC shortly after arriving in NYC. Sandy was a lot like other Vietnam Vets (as well as Vets from other wars), he felt alienated and longed for the brotherhood he had in the Marines. In the Aliens MC, he found guys like him who liked to drink, fight, get high, and chase broads. Sandy was different from his fellow club brothers in that he felt like he could be more than just your average biker.
Sandy observed how his club brothers and other bikers tended to travel all over, and they all liked to party. Most bikers he knew sold drugs or pimped out women in order to make enough money to pay for their next orgy of drugs, booze, and women. He thought why not establish a network to sell drugs regularly, not just when the club needs money? It took him a month or so, but he established a fairly lucrative drug ring. In 1968, Alexander began his indoctrination into the HA.
In 1968, Mitch Macauley and several other full patch member from Oakland came out east to try to expand the HA. In order to do this, the Angels would visit various cities back east, and then recruit and eventually patch over the most successful independent clubs. Mitch helped to establish the Rochester chapter by patching over a local club called the Hacker MC. In NYC, the Aliens MC, in particular Sandy were the main focus for the Angels. The Angels liked Sandy and decided to let him Strike for the club (the Angels call it striking while other clubs call it prospecting). Sandy’s striking period lasted a year and in 1969 the NYC chapter was formed. Some of Sandy’s brothers from the Aliens patched over while other did not make the cut.
After Sandy got his patch, he began to aggressively recruit and expand his drug ring. He began importing meth, PCP, marijuana, and LSD from his club brothers in California. He got his cocaine from some Colombians in Queens, who were connected with the Cali Cartel, and he got his heroin from I believe it was Philly Lucky of the Bonannos. His drug ring got so big that he began supplying every HA chapter on the Eastern Seaboard. It got to appoint where Angels in the East Coast saw Alexander as their true leader, not Sonny Barger. It was in the late 1970s-early 1980s that Sandy decided to expand the HA north of the border. Many of the details about the Angels in Canada have been discussed so I will spare the details of this.
Alexander and the NYC chapters had several cocaine customers north of the border who told them how lucrative the business was up there. At that point a kilo of cocaine (this may not be exactly right FYI) in the US sold for around $55,000. In Canada it went for around $80,000. The Angels decided the market was too lucrative to pass up so they sent their members up to Canada and the rest is history. Sandy went to prison around 1986, but not before he ordered the massacre of the Laval chapter, as they were using more product than they were selling. I believe if Sandy had not gone to prison and was on the street when Mom Boucher was carrying on up north, Mom would have curbed the violence if Sandy asked him too. Sandy was one of Mom’s role models, he wanted to be Sandy. Also the guys that went up north to talk to Mom were West Coast Angels, that he ma have met twice in his life. He knew the East Coast guys not the west coast guys. I never understood why the Angels sent guys that Mom did not even know. these guys are not exactly brain surgeons lol.
I will write more stories about Sandy and I also have the story about why Fat Vinny tossed that girl off the club house. There is very little about Sandy and the NYC chapter that is not common knowledge. I hope that I can add to this.