FBI: New York Mafia stage comeback – More powerful

FBI: New York Mafia stage comeback – More powerful than they’ve been in years

Despite the waves of prosecutions, each of New York City’s five families — the Genovese, Gambino, Luchese, Bonanno and Colombo — are now as powerful as they have been in years said Richard Frankel who supervises the FBI’s organized crime squad.

According to a report published this week in the Wall Street Journal, the New York mob have adapted to law enforcement’s tactics and techniques and moved on to a more old school low level approach to doing business.

Mr. Frankel said he believes the city’s Mob has quietly staged a comeback and is now more powerful than it has been in years.

Unlike the in-your-face approach that media mob star John Gotti adopted in the 1980s, today’s mafia has reverted to its roots and tried to become as invisible as possible, officials and experts say.

For instance, the Genovese family, which has traditionally been the largest, most powerful and most secretive, now likely uses a rotating panel of leaders to run day-to-day affairs to avoid any one boss from being targeted by prosecutors. Other crime families use a “street boss” model where lesser-known mobsters carry out the orders of imprisoned leaders, he said.

Today’s crime families are also less territorial and more open to collaboration than the mobsters of past decades, said Inspector John Denesopolis, the commanding officer of the New York Police Department’s Organized Crime unit. “As long as they are earning, they are less concerned,” he said.

The numbers of made members are less than years ago but not substantially so.

The Genovese lead with close to 200 such “made” men, while the Colombos and Lucheses are the smallest, with about 100 each said Jerry Capeci who operates the website Gangland News. There are also several thousand additional family associates.

One of the most powerful mobsters on the streets today is Liborio Bellomo. His exact role in the Genovese family is yet to be revealed but the feds believe he is one of the top gangsters of New York.

Source: http://mobdaily.com/fbi-new-york-mafia-stage-comeback-powerful-theyve-years/

When I tell you folks about the FBI's method of mixing a little fact with a lot of misinformation to detect leaks and provoke chatter to gather for intel, this is exactly what I mean.
Barney's role is "not known"?
Really?
I have nothing more than a casual interest in the Genovese family, and I know he has been a front boss since he got out of the can.
It would be hard for the FBI to admit they knew that however, since they have never adnmitted knowing the position exists.

This is typical misinformation from the Feds. They put out a press release stating that they're down to one or two squads so the families get lulled into a false sense of security and make a few stupid moves. Then they shut them down and look like heroes for doing it with "less" manpower. The ploy is so transparent it's laughable.

Never disagreed with u on that. Both sides put out disinformation. That's why u have to be careful what to believe on wiretaps. This is a broke mob and what not. I seem Mickey Mouse bookies make a 100k a year. They were making money in Philly no doubt about it. U know how many ppl with money complain they don't have money? A lot. Plus why would you tell someone you're collecting from things are going good. Hey Dom I know you owe me 2k but things are going great. I'll give u a few extra weeks. No. They say I need the money I'm broke.

Believe nothing what you hear and half of what you see. Or something like that

And TheArm I got no beef with you. Just thought you came in a little hot with I know this and that one talk. I can sit here all day and say who I was around as a boy and what would it matter? Some 16 year old kid will dm me and ask me if I ever rode in Midge's Cadillac. And honestly it's best not to say much anyway. The real guys will be skeptical and the gullible ones will irritate u to do death with terrible questions. It's a lose lose IMO.
Look at the Philly thread. Ppl are asking Serpentine what Phil Leonetti liked to eat for christsake. It's borderline psychotic and this place has gone hill cause of it.

We took off at the right time. It got crushed back home

That's true, Cheech. But on the other side of that coin, how many times have you seen complete brokesters driving Cadillacs and spending everything they have on clothes and jewelry?

Some of these assholes live so far over their heads it's ridiculous. But they feel that they have to keep up appearances. Then they blink their eyes and they're sixty years old without a retirement plan. Fuck that. Gimme Boca when I'm that age (which unfortunately isn't that far off for me ).

Ditto on the no Beef Cheech.
I know what you mean, on one hand I am told I need to "prove" any claim I make, and on the other I am told anything I say can be found on the internet...lol...catch 22
What I am not going to do is disclose on an open web site to prove my background. It did it once privatly not long ago, but only after the person gave me enough info himself on the topic we were discussing for me to know he wasnt just fishing.
People are free to believe or disbeleive anything they like, it really makes no differrence.

It's not misinformation at all. The ongoing decline in the law enforcement manpower dedicated to going after the NY mob is well documented.

2001 - the FBI temporarily or permanently reassigns over 75% of it's agents investigating the LCN to anti-terrorism units.

2005 - a report was released on the "External Effects of the FBI's Reprioritization Efforts" following the September 2001 attacks. From 2000 to 2004, the total number of field agents investigating the LCN in the U.S. was reduced from 437 to 261 (40% decline). Also, new case openings were reduced from 233 in 2000 to 90 in 2004 (61% decline). The current total of FBI agents investigating the LCN in New York is approximately 150, down from 350 agents (as well as about 100 NYPD detectives) in the 1980's and 1990's.

2009 - the FBI manpower investigating the LCN in New York is now under 50 agents; with the Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno squads each having under 10 agents, the Gambino squad having 12 agents, and the Genovese squad having 12 agents and some NYPD detectives.

2011 - with 45 agents investigating the LCN in New York, the FBI streamlines it's LCN squads in New York to 3: combining the Colombo and Bonanno squads together, the Gambino and Lucchese squads together, and leaving a third squad for the Genovese.

2013 - the FBI further reduces it's manpower investigating the LCN in New York, now only having 2 squads: the C-5 squad investigating the Genovese, Colombo, and Bonannos and the C-16 squad investigating the Gambinos and Luccheses; with a combined total of 25-35 agents.

This ongoing decline in manpower devoted to the New York Mafia was a main point in Selwyn Raab's book Five Families. And several ex-law enforcement agents have expressed concern about this.

I have to say there has been an increasing focus on external threats (or threats from other places that may occur internally) rather than home grown crime, it seems, with the FBI. At least since 9/11.

TheArm knows all about the Outfit's prostitution racket...that's where you grew up right?

100% true

So let me see if I understand...It's not that the FBI puts out misinformastion(Even though they have been to court 5 times in the past 15 years for the right to do so)
It is that a lack of manpower causes them to get things wrong?

For example...When they first claimed Rockford was extinct, then claimed that there was a boss of this extict Family, then said that boss of this extinct family died, than claimed that same Boss was really not the boss of Rockford after all, but an outfit associate, then declared the Rockford family extinct again, then announced the extinct family had a new boss...that was just due to a lack of manpower and thats why they contradicted themselved 5 times..is that about right?

Honestly..was your dad an FBI agent?

Whilst risking a spanking by daddy (SC, holla!) Ill throw this last into the mix:

Arm, you shouldve been a lawyer.
You can talk bullshit underwater and you never let a bone go.

And im betting you like the last word too....

Not tying to get the last word in....and I take no offense.
What I said was true, that was the FBI trail of public record on Rockford. Lots of activity for a family that doesnt exist IJS.
Not to mention they demoted a Boss to an associate...in another family no less.
Must have just been a lack of manpower...:)

TheArm is pretty much like cookcounty - a troll not even worth responding to at this point. What's amazing is he keeps spouting his nonsense despite nobody on this forum (besides cookcounty) believing any of it.

"nobody on this forum"
LOL...Some things just speak for themselves, and Dr Freud is somewhere grinning ear to ear

I've seen the stats and read the press releases, Ivy. And I ALWAYS give you the credit you deserve for backing up your posts with concrete links. But I still have a very hard time believing that they're down to just a squad or two, and that it wouldn't be beyond the government to keep it quiet just to catch the wiseguys off-guard.

And you know me. I'm not one of the guys who believes that the mob is still what it was twenty years ago. I've been in this city for over fifty years and they ain't shit compared to what they were back then. But when you look at the big picture, it wasn't all that long ago that Italian American LCN was considered THE evil empire in this country. So I have a hard time believing that they're paying so little attention. And even if they are, the minute the Feds think they're getting too strong, they'll turn the heat back on like a fucking light switch.

The main problems with his theory (and there are many) is that the intentional misinformation goes back to Appalachian, and that it is a matter of public record that the FBI used this as an investigative tool, and in fact had to go to court to defend it.
The "lack of manpower" arguement is beyond ridiculous

I completely agree with that last part. As one FBI official said, when defending the low numbers, there is a constant look at how resources are allocated and agents could be moved back. What's interesting is, despite the ongoing decline in manpower investigating the NY Mafia, mob cases haven't declined over the past decade or more.

What will make the feds crack down big time is if the mobsters start getting involved heavily again in the legitimate world of markets and unions and whatnot. THEN there will be a big smackdown.

Didn't someone on here say the feds would eventually use terrorism statutes against the mob?

so the ny fbi are bringing in more cases with less people

sounds like alot of conversations are being recorded within the five families

But you could say the cases have not been quality. the gambino bust in 08, most mobsters got three years or less. The bonanno bust involving vinny tv? basically a year inside. Not exactly intimidating for the mobsters.
What was the average prison term for the mobster in the mafia crackdown bust?

Not much more than that really

Its because of the plea deal, if they all went to trial like gotti used to make them do, they probly wouldve got 20 yrs.

you can also say that they need less agents because madeguys are going undercover

NY makes people because somebody died

somebody dying doesn't mean that his replacement is qualified to be made

Pretty sure your reply is not directed to me because that is completely different subject to what I am talking about.

You have to understand that, regardless of the subject, cook will usually find some way to bring up his broken record line about all the rats and guys wearing wires in New York. Ever since his bubble was burst about the Chicago mob, all he's got left is to take shots at the NY families.

Cookcounty is a black man who worships people who hate any black man. How pathetic can you get.

@ivyleague


it would be a broken record line if NY guys weren't wired for sound as we speak

for some reason u don't know what having an organization riddled with rats means



@tommygambino


ask god if i worship anybody and he'll tell u the answer

i do like that picture of sam giancana though, he looked very photogenic

Thing is though, your opinion is meaningless. Why don't you contribute something worthwhile to the forum instead of running your mouth. Shit I'm sure if you were in that life you would be wearing a wire all day. Come with some facts like this one for instance, Italian OC in Chicago is washed up.....like your arguments.

The outfit has had it's fair share of rats too

I bet from a percentage standpoint it's about the same , it looks like their were 2 rats with just that last case .

NY certainly has it's rats but lately it seems things have calmed down , as murders drop people aren't looking at the life sentences . When you think how NY has 700 made men IMO today's leaders have done a pretty good job of keeping things quiet , steering away from violence and making some good money . Gambling and shy are as big as ever and the high end weed biz has replaced some loss income in garbage , fish , unions , they are making some really good margins in that wholesale biz .

I do feel law enforcement has done a pretty good job with the NYC mob , however I think the smart ones have shifted some focus to NJ where law enforcement isn't as concerned or centralized with so many different cities . Some of these guys have some huge books and I wouldn't be surprised if that $2B on bets placed with the Luchesse bust was true, everyone gambles here and at least 5 of my good friends are agents and even 1 the bank. Not to mention garbage still has a LCN problem ( just my town has a huge transport Co to Ohio that must be raking it in , and it's backed by P/E $) . Plus the port is still a $ maker , particularly with pay offs for contracts and skimming union funds , whereas LE has really cleaned up the BK port. I think what we are seeing is a suburban LCN where they have upper hand on LE.

As long as they stick to their book , shy , weed and legit biz , less murders and expanding out of NYC, they could continue to prosper from a $ standpoint , less power and control but more $

@DB

the outfit has only one made member rat in court

NY has had several bosses, underbosses, acting bosses, and consiglieres rat in court

not too mention the captains that have ratted

You also have to take into consideration that Chicago has always made less guys and NYC has five families, all with more guys now than Chicago had at even their highest numbers in the fifties and sixties.

Mainly because there has been nothing to rat about in a long time, there finished.

I've mentioned how one law enforcement official talked about how, even with all the publicity surrounding the NY members that flip, there's far more that don't. He said it "wasn't even close." The NY families have proven their persistence in the face of rats in their ranks, law enforcement, other crime groups, etc. What they have that no other family really does is the recruiting pool to stave off attrition. Chicago only having one made guy flip won't save it from fading away.

This argument doesn't work because even smaller families than NYC such as philly, new england, jersey, ect has had way more rats than Chicago and they're smaller.

Of course there are rats in Chicago but there's no denying that the numbers are far less compared to other cities.

Well cook many of the outfit posters say associates are similar to soldiers in NY so using that assumption there have been many rats in chicago too

this might be far fetch, I don't know, but when you look at the list of made men who flipped, most were in the 90's, Cant I say that? yes we had nicky skins a few years ago and we will see made men turn in the future but now everyone goes for pleas so you don't see as many made men turning because there is no need

LOL! That's a good point. But that's when they'll backtrack and claim the associates who flipped don't count in this case.

@ivyleague


when discussing made members of the mafia flipping why would associates be included?

somebody sounds like a fan of thin crusted pizza

Just shut the fuck up already cook!!!

*in my best Peter Griffin voice: oh my god who the hell cares

Best comment ever! I barely have a face because i have palmed it so much in relation to just about anything cook has ever said.

^^^^ i know the feeling!

The sad thing is i used to be a big believer in racial equality, but cookcounty has single handedly turned me into a racist and a bigot.

He has inspired me to take a trip down to florida with my glock .45 and stand my ground against a trayvon martin look a like.....who am i kidding they all look the same to me!

^Yupp you know how it is these days. You could be the most enlightened person in the world. But if you say one wrong thing you're a racist. "You tryna keep us down white boy"

I'm going to try and explain this to you one time, cook, and one time only.

When the size of the Outfit is the point of conversation, certain Chicago posters try to inflate the totals by arguing that many associates have membership status in the Chicago mob.

But if that's the case, one could argue that many of the Outfit associates who have flipped should be counted among the Chicago rats. But that's when those Chicago posters will do a 180 and argue they aren't made so they shouldn't be counted.

That's the joke.

Oh, I get it. New York pizza is thin crusted. As opposed to Chicago pizza, which is thick crusted.

Good Lord, Cook. Ivy isn't a fan of ANY mob guys. If anything, he's a bit of a moralist (and I mean that respectfully, Ivy ). But because he's objective and posts verifiable facts, he's a fanboy of New York? Okay, got it .

Don't you ever get tired of being so fucking stupid? I mean, even if I was as dumb as you are, I'd probably keep it to myself. You know, better to be quiet and thought the fool and all of that . . .

@ivyleague



why would associates count when we're counting made members of the mafia?

ny has had more bosses flip than chicago has had associates flip

that's just a fucking fact

@CC:

There's 750+ Wiseguys in NYC. 30 odd in Chicago.

Doing a simple count off of rats is hardly indicative now is it?


Perspective.

I agree about a guy only being a member if they are made. Just make sure you and your fellow Chicago posters remember that fact next time the subject of 25-30 Outfit members is being discussed. No trying to inflate the totals by arguing associates are "different" in Chicago.

New York has had more bosses flip than Chicago has had associates flip? That's certainly not true.

You keep dwelling on the rats in New York because you're still butt-hurt about your fantasy Chicago Outfit not being a reality. Yes, there are more rats in New York but that's partly because those families are so much larger than the Outfit or any other outside New York. And even then, like I said, the number of guys that flip is very small compared to the ones that don't.

The Outfit has proven to be one of the more secretive and disciplined families, even in recent years, but that won't save it from attrition. Because of recruiting pool alone, the most rat-infested of NY families will be around long after the Outfit is gone.

That's a fact.

^^^^^

why would associates flipping count against actual mafia members flipping?

They don't. Somebody is only made if they are made.

But if certain Chicago posters are going to argue that the Outfit has more than 28 members, because some associates basically have made status there, wouldn't that also mean some associates who flipped could be considered as made?

See what I mean? Chicago posters want it one way but not the other. They talk out of both sides of their mouth depending on whether they want to inflate the Outfit's membership or minimize the number of it's defectors.

chicago posters don't have a goddamn thing to do with mobsters flipping

chicago posters don't got a goddamn thing to do with bosses flipping in ny

chicago posters ain't got a goddamn thing to do with associates ratting in chicago

Ivy i dont know why you even bother engaging this mongoloid.

Exactly. He's a fucking retard, plain and simple. Borderline illiterate, unemployed and brain dead. He'll never amount to anything but a drain on both society and the economy.

Don't ... feed ... the ... fucking ... trolls.