Rank of the La Cosa Nostra Families today

Hi,

I didn´t know if I should stard a new topic. Here is my question:

Where do you think, is the Chicago Outfit today in the rank of the US La Cosa Nostra Families? With rank I mean power, membership, earned money etc.

The New York Times from 1995 lists there members

- GENOVESE: 300
- GAMBINO 200
- BONANNO 100
- LUCCHESE 50 bis 60
- COLOMBO 50 to 60

I read that there were just 28 government recognized made Outfit members. What is your ranking from 1.2.3....

source: http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/03/nyregi...mp;pagewanted=2

im not sure where those numbers came from for the Luccheses and Colombos, for the past 30 or 40 years they have always been about the same size of the Bonnano family.

And membership wise(since it is impossible to know how much a family makes a year) i would put the chicago outfit on par with the other remaining faamilys outside of new york, so about the same size as philly, boston, and new jersey.

Genovese
Gambino
Lucchesse
Bonanno
Colombo
Chicago
Philly
Jersey

Ranking familes has become kinda silly IMHO, after all its not the NBA or NFL. We all know the Genovese is the strongest and most lucrative family other than that the remaining five familes and then the remaining familes outside of NY. It's funny but comparing Barny or Stevie isnt like comparing Lebron or KD but some people still try, oh well I understand the threads do get boring when there not much new happening. No problema just my opinion.

Genovese
Chicago
Gambino
Lucchesse
Bonanno
Colombo
Philly
Jersey. I know the New York guys are gonna be like "what, Chicago number 2 ??? Yes Chicago number 2. I have no idea how many made members their are in the Chicago Outfit but my gut tells me its more then 28. To this day according to the FBI Chicago has its influence all over the western United States. New York has the east coast and Chicago has the west. I got my info from someone I know who is a Department of Defense cop and he gets briefed once a year by the FBI on organized crime. They also said Chicago generates more money then any other "single" Italian organized crime entity in the United States.

Ummm, no.

I know...of course not, couldn't be, FBI has no idea what they are talking about. New York is the center of the universe. Chicago only has its tentacles in St.Louis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, L.A., Seattle, Twin City's, Phoenix, North Western Indiana etc Definitely no money to be made there..

Chicago barely has its tentacles in anything. It's a barely functioning family, most of it has either died off (considering the family has the same demographics as a nursing home) or gone legit.

your probably right

Boston?
I assume you mean Providence, and you would be wrong,Chicago dwarfs them, Philly and Jersey is size and scope.

If we are talking about just the 5 NY families and Chicago
1 Genovese
2.Gambino
3 Chicago
4.Lucchesse
5 Bonanno
6 Colombo

You have any evidence whatsoever for this assertion? When was the last indictment?

Chicago fanboys, please note:

ALL five families are larger in EVERY way than Chicago. As has been REPEATEDLY stated, proved, confirmed etc the 5 families are the the largest in size followed by (in no particular order)Philly, NE, Chicago and Jersey.

Try and stop fantasizing.
Facts are a lot more interesting.

1: What entails a DOD cop that would be briefed on Outfit activity? He works at an airport with the TSA?

2: Did you seriously just say they make more money than the Genoveses'? Or the Gambinos?

1.) Pittsburgh
2.) Buffalo
3.) Tampa
4.) Who gives
5.) A fuck

2.375) New Orleans

Yea that looks more accurate

I am far from a Chicago fan boy, I just happen to be a NY transplant live here, but I can tell you that is size, scope, and every other measure, Chicago is bigger than 3 of the 5 NY families.

And you can divine this how? Have you been calling Mrs. Cleo or something?

This is just complete & utter nonsense though

Wow, Chicago fanboys are crazy, they just can't get over the fact that the family is so small and powerless.

Great. I love different opinions. Please tell me how.

Don't the five families have a lot more involvement in the drug trade than the outfit? And everyone knows drugs are the most lucrative.

In Chicago the Sinaloa Cartel in conjunction with the largest street gangs (Latin Kings, Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords etc.) totally dominate the drug trade, so its impossible for the Outfit to take advantage of that market the way the Italians do in New York

Also much of the Outfit money has gone legitimate as has been stated..real estate, restaurants, construction and sanitation companies, lingerie bars and even farms downstate

The better question would be where the heck are you getting this nonsense from?

I know this sounds like I'm making this up, but people who would know and who grew up in Melrose have told me that almost all of it has gone legit and many of the lowlife criminals who still try stuff on the streets get no respect from the descendants of the old big shots.

I could have been lied to though and it was really none of my business

The burden of proof is on those making outlandish claims that Chicago is powerful and even in the same arena as the Five Families.

The number of indictments since Family Secrets has been very seldom. There have been none outside Chicago. You are left with two options: 1) They are criminal masterminds that have figured out how to beat the 21st century FBI OR 2) Activity is way down, either abandoning the family altogether, going legit and scaling down.

The Geneovese is by all accounts the most powerful, secretive, smart LCN in the country. While you don't see the admin indicted often recently (although even then you got Leo, Nigro, etc), there are large number of soldiers and associates that get indicted every several years. It gives us a indication of their activity.

Elmwood park, and Melrose park, much of which migrated from Cicro, has gone legit, but be careful not to assume "legit" means they are not walking a fine line of legality, and pulling scams are rackets around the legitamate business.
For example...you buy a distressed property on North Avenue in the Chicago Burbs or the West side of Rockford, on a short sell, which mans you pay peanuts. You gut it, from the copper piping to the door hinges, and sell it off. then you either walk away and "dump it" fopr unpaid taxes, or you renivate it to the bare bones of occumency and sub divide it 6 ways, and rent it to Russian prostitutes who came to the US thinking they had a Nanny job,to drug dealers, or to people with a rent voucher from welfare. you put nothing back into it. This is the outfit's version of "legit"

Good point.

Also there are a number of Eastern European girls who work in those lingerie places on Manheim and I wonder whats going on there, but like I said I don't ask too many questions, because it's none of my business.

I will say I've never been outright solicited in those places though, so I'm not accusing any of them of being brothels

There is a lucertive partnership between the Russians and Elmwood park, and to a lesser extent Melrose Park in Adult entertainment,prostitution and human trafficing. There is a strip club owner who may never know how close he came to getting whacked recently over this, and a lawyer in Country club hills who pays every week.

Okay Huron. You win, there are several hundred wiseguys in Chicago. They rival the Hispanic drug gangs and the black gangs. In fact, the ethnic gangs who peddle thousands of kilograms a month and gross millions of dollars a year and drop bodies are scared of 72 year old Italian numbers runners, bookies and loansharks.

The same fbi who has a squad that rivals the numbers (or lack thereof) of philly mobsters and are resistant to the fact the mob no longer warrants the investigative attention in philly it did 30 years ago. Those same feds who have decided to shrink their Chicago mob numbers to so few are for some reason, oblivious to the fact here are several hundred Chicago mafia members

Huron never said there are several hundred wiseguys.

The outfit is nothing more than a glorified crew.

Huron and the Arm.

Next all we need is cookcounty and we'll have a trifecta.

Question: why do you think nearly all relative authorities, overwhelming majority of quite knowledgable posters here and on similar blogs coupled with the FB friggen EYE all purport the same conclusion regards the Windy City EXCEPT you three who apparently know better than everyone?

Is it conceit, arrogance, wishful thinking or stupidity which leads you to think you KNOW more than EVERYBODY else?

And in case you were wondering. That was rhetorical.

I take it little nickey does not like Chicago lol. I think the outfit wished EVERYONE thought like you. How could anyone be so naive to think Chicago is basically dead??? its the 3rd largest city in America with over 780,000 residents in the whole Chicago land area that are of Italian descent. I'm going to find that freaking link from the FBI website where even they say that the Chicago outfit is the single most lucrative Italian organized crime identity in the United States. The report was from 2012. New York is nothing but a bunch of rats who glee for the spot light. Every LCN family has a rat problem but the guys on the east coast have fine tuned it to a perfect art form. How ever Chicago has been able to keep its mouth shut for the most part over all these years minus the family secrets trial a few years back which really did not do much as far as hurting the outfit. The difference between Chicago and New York is Chicago keeps their mouths shut and drives pick up trucks and ball caps to stay under the radar where as New york guys have diarrhea of the mouth, drive fancy cars, where snazzy clothes, and walk around with a billboard that says "hey look at me, I'm a New Yorker and I'm in the mob, now get on your knees and suck my balls because im so awesome"

Little Nicky & Sonny blackengoof would you two calm the fuck down? You stooge idiots get so goddamn bent out of shape over some total motherfuckin nonsense to begin with.

Where did anyone say the Outfit had hundreds of made guys? Copy & paste please.

The Outfit has always had a tight inner circle of older made men, even going back to their heyday you very rarely had guys getting made into the Chicago Outfit at young ages

not too mention that illinois is easily the most crooked state

people seem not to understand the severity of bosses wearing wires or turning state

ny makes people just to keep their numbers up

Why do you worship these guys? like PIzzaboy has pointed out to you several times, these guys hate you because your black, it's that simple. You must be a very strange little man to make up lies to exagerate a criminal group that literally thinks of you as an animal, hilarious.

Count the made men in a family is very difficult,because the mafia was a secret society,even in the 21th century,thanks to the chart of Pogo the clown,from another site,try to give some numbers on the 5 family and to the other family if is possible.

The Genovese Family 18 capos 126 know made men

Administration:
1. Boss: Vacant
-Ruling Panel: ????? (Possibly Bellomo, Muscarella, Cirillo, Dentico or some combination)
2. UnderBoss: Venero "Benny Eggs" Mangano/92
-Acting UnderBoss: ?????
3. Consiglieri: James "The Little Guy" Ida/73 (IP/L)
-Acting Consiglieri: ?????


Capos:

1. Anthony "Tico" Antico/78 (IP/6/12/2018) – Brooklyn
2. Liborio S. "Barney" Bellomo/56/Ernest Muscarella/70 – Bronx, East Harlem and Manhattan
3. Ludwig "Ninny" Bruschi/79/Anthony “Tony D” Palumbo/64 (IP/11/22/2019) - New Jersey
4. Dominick "Quiet Dom" Cirillo/84 – Manhattan and New Jersey
5. Lawrence "Larry Fab/Little Larry" Dentico/90 - New Jersey and Philly
6. Silvio DeVita/81 - New Jersey
7. Michael “Little Mike” Coppola/66 (IP/3/4/2024)/Michael “Tona” Borelli/76 (Acting) – New Jersey
8. Pasquale “Patty Boy” Falcetti/55 (UI) – Bronx)
9. Rosario “Ross” Gangi/74/Salvatore "Sammy Meatballs" Aparo/83 – Manhattan, Brooklyn and New Jersey
10. Conrad Ianniello/70 (IP)– Brooklyn, Staten Island, Connecticut, Long Island, New Jersey and Florida
11. Albert "Kid Blast" Gallo/84 – Brooklyn
12. Joseph "PePe" LaScala/80 (UI) - The Bronx and New Jersey
13. Daniel “Danny/The Lion” Leo/73 – Bronx and East Harlem
14. Alan "Baldie" Longo/63 - Manhattan, Brooklyn and New Jersey
15. James "Jimmy from 8th Street" Messera/73 – Manhattan and Brooklyn
16. Pasquale "Patsy" Parello/69 - Bronx
17. Anthony "Rom" Romanello/76 – Queens
18. Charles "Chuckie" Tuzzo/80 – Brooklyn


Soldiers:

Elio “Chinatown” Albanese/59
Vincent Alberti/72
Steven “DD” Alfisi/47
Stephen Andretta/72
Vincent Aparo/56
Steven Arena/50
Ralph “The Undertaker” Balsamo/42
John "Johnny Sausages" Barbato/79
Salvatore “Hot Dogs” Battaglia/66
Liborio T. Bellomo/53
Steve Buscemi
Dominick Cappola/84
Robert Carbone/54
Louis “Lou” Casciano/78
Anthony Cerruto/49
Thomas Cestaro/86
Salvatore Cetrullo/68
Junior Cinciolli
Victor Colletti/71 (UI)
Alex Conigliaro/51
Anthony Conigliaro/73
Orlando Coraluzzo/92
Michael Crincoli/51
Gus Curcio/57
John "Blue" Defroscia/48 (UI)
James Delio/56
Carmine Dellacava/55
Daniel Dellisanti/63
Joseph "Joe D" Dente Jr/49
Michael DeLuca/68
Pasquale “Scop” DeLuca/81
Frank Demeo/58
Salvatore Demeo/72
Dominick DeVito/49
Peter "Petey Red" DiChiara/65
Louis DiNapoli/69
Vito DiSalvo/63
Jerry Esposito/75
Salvatore “Zookie” Esposito/76
Vincent Esposito
Anthony "Tough Tony/Tony Parkside" Federici/70
Nicholas “Nicky the Blond” Frustaci/76
John “Little John/Johnny Gags” Gagliardi/69
Lawrence "Larry Glitz" Galizia/60
Andrew Gargiulo/69
Michael "Micky Dimino" Generoso/95
Paul “Slick” Geraci/46
John Giangrande (New Boss)
Joseph Giardina Jr/85
Mario Gigante/88
John "Johnny Bull" Giglio/53
Frank Giovinco/43
Peter Grecco/71
Michael "Mikey Hands" Grisante
Michael Griziosi/78
Nicholas Gruttadauria/64
Gerard “Fat Jerry” Guadagno/70
Joseph "Joey" Ida/77
Angelo Lapi/76
Domick LaPuma
Peter Leconte/43
Onofrio "Malfie" Macchio
Alphonse "Allie Shades" Malangone/73
Frank Malangone/50
Steven Maltese/74
Giuseppe “Little Joe” Manzi/36
Ralph Marino/77
John “Johnny Moose” Marrone/78
James Martino/65
Ron Miceli/56
Robert "The Chef" Milano/60
Frank Monti/66
Ernest “Butch/Green Eyes” Montevecchi
Anthony Negri Sr/72
Dominick Nicastro/53
Joseph "Rudy" Olivieri/58
Daniel “Danny” Pagano/55
Jimmy Perrone
Ciro Perrotta
Rocco “Rocky” Petrozza/52
Anthony “Tony Waterguns” Pisapia/69
Joseph “Joe P” Pontoriero/72
Anthony “Muzzy” Pucciarello/77 (UI)
Frank “Frankie Pugs” Pugliano/83
Nicholas “Nicky” Quardiria
Joseph Queli/66
Michael “Mickey” Ragusa/42
Louis Rizzo Jr/44
Paul Rogina
Carmine "Fish" Romano/72
Vincent “Fish” Romano/75
Anthony “Tony the Guinea” Rotolo/66
Louis Ruggiero/81
Carmine “Baby Carmine” Russo/62
Colombo “Edward” Saggese/80
Charles “Fat Charlie” Salzano/61 (UI)
Rudolph “Ruddy” Santobello/79
Joseph “Joe Sass” Sarcinella/78 (UI)
Michael Sciarra
Charles Trentacosta/47
Robert “Bob” Varicchico
Frank Vasfailo/58
Fred Vigorito/86
Joseph Zito/73
Salvatore “Sal/Moe” Zito


Possible Made Members:
Alexander Cuomo/68
Peter Tomasina/60
Carmine "Johnny Lamps" Saglimbene (2010)


Imprisoned Members:
James Bernardone/46 (IP)
Anthony Fazio Sr/67 (IP/4/23/2023)
Philip Bonadonna/75 (IP/3/15/2015)
Stephen “Beech” DePiro/56 (IP/3/8/2014)
Dominick DeVito/48 (IP/7/04/2013)
Emilio Fusco/44 (IP/5/8/2032)
Federico “Fritzy” Giovanelli/76 (IP)
Alan “Wolshonak” Grecco/66 (IP/10/2/2046)
Salvatore “Sally KO” Larca/45 (IP)
Louis "Bobby" Manna/78 (IP/L)
Arthur "Artie/The Little Guy" Nigro/69 (IP/L)
Dominick “Pepe” Pietranico/83 (IP)
Angelo "The Horn" Prisco/71 (IP/L)
Joseph “Joe Sass” Sarcinella/79 (IP)
Anthony "The Jap" Scaffidi/62 (IP)
Salvester Zarzana/48 (IP)

The Gambino Family 20 capos 137 know made men

Administration:
1. Boss: Domenico "Italian Dom" Cefalu/64
-Street Panel: Anthony Gurino/70, Giovanni “John” Gambino/75 and Joseph "Sonny" Juliano/75
2. UnderBoss: Frank “Frankie Boy” Cali/46
3. Consiglieri: Bartolomeo “Bobby/Pepe” Vernace/62 (IP)


Capos:

1. Vincent "Vinnie" Artuso/68 (IP/8/20/2016) – Florida
2. Dominick "Big D" Cefalu/57 (UI) - Brooklyn and Long Island
3. Thomas "Tommy Twitch/Sneakers" Cacciopoli/63 - Queens and Westchester
4. Nicholas "Little Nick/The Doctor" Corozzo/71 (IP/3/2/2020)/Leonard "Lenny/The Conductor" DiMaria/71/James “Jimmy Boy” Dellaratta/71 (UI) – Brooklyn, Queens and Florida
5. John "Jackie Nose" D'Amico/76/Ernest "Ernie/Crazy Eyes" Grillo/55 - New Jersey, Manhattan and Brooklyn
6. Louis DeVito/71
7. Joseph "Sonny" Juliano/75/Up Front Panel - Brooklyn
8. Salvatore "Tori" LoCascio/51/Andrew "Andy Campo" Campos/42 – Bronx
9. Lorenzo Maminno/54 - Brooklyn
10. Daniel Marino/70 (IP/8/27/2014) - Brooklyn and Staten Island
11. Joseph "Joe Ox" Marino/88 - Brooklyn
12. Pasquale Marsala - Manhattan and Brooklyn
13. Nicholas “Nicky Mita” Mitarotonda/73 - New Jersey
14. Louis Mastrangelo/69 - Queens and Long Island
15. Michael “Mickey Boy” Paradiso/72 – Queens and Brooklyn
16. Louis "Louie Bracciole" Ricco/82 – Bronx and Westchester
17. John Rizzo Jr. – Brooklyn and Staten Island
18. Carmine “Top Tomato” Sciandra/59 - Staten Island, Brooklyn, Connecticut and Manhattan
19. Alphonse "Funzie" Sisca/69/Louis “Bo” Filippelli/46 - New Jersey and Queens
20. Alphonse Trucchio/35 (IP/4/6/2020) - Queens and Florida


Soldiers:

Carmine Agnello/50
Charles Alaimo/69
Ignaccio "Iggy" Alogna/78
John “Johnny Boy” Ambrosio/65
Mario “Little Mario” Antonicelli/81
Henrico Arduini/86
Charles “Charlie” Aurello
Frank “The Bear” Basto/74
Francesco “Frank” Barranca/83
Gaspare Barranca/75
Pasquale Barrance/85
Vincent Beltempo/75
Joseph “Joe” Bilotti/75
Edward Bonica/85
Jerome "Jerry" Brancato/83
Gaetano Bruno/70
Mario "Lanza" Cassarino/45
Joseph “Joey” Casieri
Peter Castellana/82
Ricardo Cefalu
Joseph "Joe Marco Polo" Chirico/63 (UI)
Anthony "Sonny" Ciccone/78
John Colucciello
Benjamin Coniglia
Pasquale "Patsy" Conte/86
Blaise “Mister” Corozzo/64
Vincent "Vinnie Butch" Corrao/44
Joseph Costa
George "Georgie" DeCicco/82
Vincent "Juicy" DiModica/80
Anthony DeLorenzo/73
John Delutro/59
Alfred "Hot Dog" DiCongilio
Frank “Frankie the Hat” DiStefano
Nicholas “Nicky” Dragonetti
Vincent "Vinny/Marbles" Dragonetti/47 (UI)
Vincent Fiore/45
Joseph “Joe” Franco
Salvatore "Sal" Franco/76
Joseph "Joey Cigars" Francolino Sr/73
Vincenzo “Vinny Carwash” Frogiero/45
Joseph Gallo Jr/67
Giuseppe “Joseph” Gambino
Thomas “Tommy” Gambino/82
Rosario Gambino/69
Salvatore Gambino
John “Johnny G” Gammarano/71
Joseph Gilotti
Richard "Richie" Gotti/71 (UI)
John "Junior" Gotti Jr/49
Michael “Mikey Gal” Guerrieri/85
Stephen "Steve Coogan" Grammauta/97
Francesco Graziano/72
Paul Graziano/66
Francesco Inzerillo
Pietro "Tall Pete" Inzerillo/43 (UI)
Fortunato "Frank" Inzone/66
Joseph Isgro/63
Richard Juliano/71
Joseph LaForte Jr/70
Joseph Lanni/42 (UI)
Nicholas “Nicky” LaSorsa/75
Anthony "Cheeks/Firehawk" Licata/42
Salvatore Lombardo
George Lombardozzi/70
Salvatore Mangialino
Angelo Melli/81
Philip Melli/82
Philip "The Professor" Modica/82
Anthony “Fat Tony” Morelli/70
Peter Mosca/78
Michael Murdocco/68 (UI)
Michael 'Nunzie' Napolitano
Joseph “Joey Boy” Orlando/64
James "Big Guy" Outerie/59 (UI)
Joseph Passanante
Vincent "Vinny Basile" Pacelli/66
Angelo Paccione/74
Giuseppe Pellerito
Salvatore Pisello/88
Anthony “Tony Pro” Proto
Vincenzo Pullaro
David “Little Davie” Rava/78
John “Sonny” Riccobono/74
John Riccobono (Different guy)
John Rizzo/66
Vincent Romano/75 (UI)
Eugene “Buster” Russo
John Santoro Jr/67
Thomas “Monk” Sassano/65
Anthony Scibelli/47 (UI)
Augustus "Gus Boy" Sclafani/73
Joseph Scopo/35
Anthony Scotto/77
William "Big Billy" Scotto/45
John “Johnny Beano” Setaro/61
Salvatore Spatola/79
Alphonso Spitaleri/80
Arnold "Zeke/Bozey" Squitieri/76
Andrew Torregrossa Jr/85
Robert Vaccaro/57
Louis "Big Lou" Vallario/71
August “Augie” Vergalito
Peter “Petey Chops” Viccini
Anthony Vinciullo/76
Anthony Vitta/73
Santo Zito


Imprisoned Members:
Oreste “Ernie Boy” Abbamonte/64 (IP/4/17/2016)
Anthony Bazzini/54 (IP)
Thomas “Huck” Carbonaro/63 (IP/12/24/2065)
Charles “Charlie Carnig” Carneglia/67 (IP/L)
John Carneglia/69 (IP/8/13/2018)
John Casablanca/68 (IP)
John “Jackie” Cavallo/64 (IP/10/3/2014)
Joseph "JoJo/Miserable" Corozzo/71 (IP/1/5/2016)
Edward “Cousin Eddie” Garafola/73 (IP/11/16/2028)
Eugene “Gene” Gotti/67 (IP/9/14/2018)
Peter "One Eye" Gotti/73 (IP/5/05/2032)
Richard Gotti Jr/45 (IP/2/22/2015)
Vincent Gotti/61 (IP/2/22/2015)
Frank "Frankie Loc" LoCascio/78 (IP/L)
Joseph "Joe" Lombardi/73 (IP)
Richard “Ritchie from the Bronx” Martino/51 (IP/8/02/2014)
Anthony "Tony/The Genius" Megale/57 (IP/7/18/2014)
Andrew “Andy Knapik” Merola/44 (IP/6/5/2020)
Onorfio “Noel” Modica/48 (IP/10/7/2018)
Anthony Moscatiello/43 (IP/3/5/2014)
Thomas Orefice/35 (IP/4/8/2017)
William “Old Man Willy/The Grandfather” Pazienza/64 (UI/IP)
Dominick “Skinny Dom” Pizzonia/69 (IP/2/28/2020)
Michael “Roc” Roccaforte/35 (IP/8/14/2019)
Angelo “Little Ange” Ruggiero Jr/41 (IP/12/12/2015)
Michael Scarola/45 (IP)
Joseph "Joey Boy" Sclafani/48 (IP/9/3/2024)
Orazio Stantini/66 (IP/6/03/2017)
Ronald "Ronnie One Arm" Trucchio/60 (IP/L)
Michael “Mikey Y” Yannotti/49 (IP/1/16/2022)

The Lucchese Family 11 capos 99 know made men

Administration:
1. Boss: Steven "Stevie Wonder/Herbie" Crea/64
2. UnderBoss: ?????
3. Consiglieri: Joseph "Joe C" Caridi/63


Capos:

1. John "Johnny Hooks" Capra/70 - Bronx
2. John “Big John” Castellucci/52 - Brooklyn
3. Joseph “Big Joe” DiNapoli/76 (UI) - Bronx
4. Andrew DiSimone/50 - Westchester and the Bronx
5. Joseph "Joey" Giampa/70 – Bronx and New Jersey
6. Joseph "Big Joey" Lubrano/41 (IP/10/31/2014)/Carlo Profeta/70 - Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx
7. Matthew Madonna/76 (UI) – Bronx
8. Aniello "Neil" Migliore/76 – Manhattan, Long Island and Florida
9. Ralph Perna/64 (UI) – New Jersey
10. Dominic "Crazy Dom" Truscello/76/Vincent "Vinny Casablanca" Mancione/50/Anthony Croce/79 – Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and Long Island
11. Anthony "Blue Eyes" Santorelli/65 – Brooklyn and the Bronx


Soldiers:
Carmine Accardi/68
Anthony Accetturo Jr.
Thomas “Tommy Red” Anzellotto
Carmine Avellino/63
Salvatore Avellino/76
Anthony “Bowatt” Baratta/74
Frank Bassi/78
Jody Calabrese/45
Dominick Capelli/56
Michael “Mikey Cap” Capra/71
Robert "Bucky the Boss" Caravaggio/68
Eugene "Bubsie" Castelle/51
John "Johnny Sideburns" Cerrella/71
John Conti/73
Michael “Mikey Bones” Corcione/72
Steven Crea Jr.
Domenico "Danny" Cutaia/76
Thomas "Fat Tommy" D'Ambrosia/64
Joseph “Big Joe” Datello/58 (UI)
Angelo Defendis/75
Pasqual "Patty" DeLarosso
Peter "Petey" DelCioppo/75
Richard DeLuca/74
Philip DeSimone/59
Michael “Mike” DeSantis/56
Joseph "Little Joe" DiBenedetto/40
Nicholas “Fat Nicky” DiConstanza
Anthony DiMeglio/75
Salvatore “Sally Bow” DiSimone
Joseph "The Ironworker" Fama/43
John "Johnny Blue" Ferreri/72
Thomas "Tommy" Gelardo/66
Scott Gervasi/43
Frank "Fat Frank" Giacobbe/52
Michael Guierriero/55 (UI)
Anthony LaSorsa/75
Frank "Big Frank" Lastorino/69
Paul LoDuca/68
John “Blackie” Mangrella/67 (UI)
Leonard Mangiapane/69
Pasquale A. Maselli/85
Marco Minuto/44
Frank Moia/73
Enzo Napole
Joseph M. “Little Joe” Perna/40 (UI)
Joseph R. Perna
John Perna/32 (UI)
Anthony "Razor" Pezzullo/59
Carlo Piccioli/78
Carmelo “Carlo” Propetta/67
Daniel Rizzo/64
Antonio “Curly” Russo/73 (UI)
Alfred Santorelli
John Sorrentino Sr/63
John Sorrentino Jr.
Carlo Taccetta/35
Joseph "Torty Jr." Tortorello/48
Joseph "JoJo" Truncale/77
Ralph Tutino/80
John “Johnny V” Vanasco/65
Peter “Rugsy” Vario/72
Peter “Butch/Jocko” Vario/64
Anthony Villani Jr/48
Rocco Vitulli/48
Joseph Zaffuto
Arthur Zambardi


Imprisoned Members:
Vittorio"Vic the Terminator" Amuso/77 (IP/L)
Ray Argentina/54 (IP/10/04/2024)
John Baudanza/41 (IP/8/2/2015)
George "George Goggles" Conte/51 (IP/3/10/2014)
Joseph "Joey Blue Eyes" Cosentino/66 (IP/L)
Salvatore Cutaia/52 (IP/8/22/2016)
Louis "Crossbay Louie/Bagels" Daidone/62 (IP/L)
Frank “Frankie Pearls” Federico/80 (IP/2/20/2016)
Christopher "Christy Ticks" Furnari/89 (IP/11/24/2044)
James “Froggy” Galione/48 (IP/12/24/2015)
Anthony Magana/52 (IP/L)
Joseph Massaro/70 (IP/L)
Frank "Frankie Bones" Papagni/54 (IP/11/24/2015)
Michael Perna/66 (IP/8/02/2015)
John "Fat Face/Johnny Boy" Petrucelli/36 (IP/L)
Nicodemo "Nicky Jr." Scarfo Jr/47 (UI/IP)
Anthony Senter/55 (IP/10/13/2032)
Michael “Baldy Mike” Spinelli/54 (IP/1/03/2029)
Martin “Marty” Taccetta/57 (UI/IP)
Michael “Mad Dog” Taccetta/65 (IP/6/10/2014)
Joseph "Joey Flowers" Tangorra/58 (IP/12/09/2014)
Joseph “Joey” Testa/53 (IP/10/23/2032)
George "Georgie Neck" Zappola/49 (IP/3/03/2014)

The Bonanno Family 15 capos 85 know made men

Administration:
1. Boss: Michael "Mikey Nose" Mancuso/59 (IP/3/12/2019)
-Acting Boss: Thomas “Tommy D” DiFiore/70 (UI/IP)
2. Underboss: Thomas “Tommy D” DiFiore/70 (UI/IP)
-Acting UnderBoss: ?????
3. Consiglieri: ????? (Possibly Vacant)


Capos:

1. Sandro Aiosa/70 - Brooklyn
2. Jerome “Jerry” Asaro/55 (UI/IP)/Giacomo “Jack” Bonventre/45 (UI) - Queens
3. Vincenzo Asaro/78 (UI/IP) - Queens
4. Vincent "Vinny T.V." Badalamenti/55/Vito Balsamo/57 - Brooklyn and Staten Island
5. Joseph Cammarano Jr/53 – Brooklyn
6. Gerard "Jerry" Chilli/77 (IP)/John “Big John” Contello/60 – Staten Island and Florida
7. Louis “Louie Electric” DeCicco/67/Anthony "Little Anthony" Pepitone/40 – Brooklyn, Long Island and Queens
8. Anthony “The Hat/Walker” Frascone/64 (UI)/John “Johnny Joe” Spirito Jr. - Bronx, Queens and Long Island
9. Anthony "Tony Black" Furino/58 - Staten Island
10. Joseph "Joe Lefty" Loiacono/67 (Acting) - Brooklyn, Staten Island, Manhattan, Queens and Florida
11. Anthony "Elmont" Mannone/69 – Brooklyn and Long Island
12. Anthony "Fat Anthony/Mr. Fish" Rabito/79 – Queens and Manhattan
13. Nicholas "Nicky Mouth" Santora/71 (UI/IP)/Ernest Aeillo/34 (UI)/Vito Badamo/51 (UI) – Brooklyn and Long Island
14. Joseph "Sammy" Sammartino-58 - New Jersey
15. Anthony "Scal" Sclafani/67 (IP/2/4/2014) - Staten Island


Soldiers:

Frank Adamo
Alfred Altadonna
Vincent "Elmo" Amarante/61 (UI)
Vito Badamo Sr/81
Vincent “Vinny” Basciano Jr/31 (UI)
Antonio Bonventre
Anthony Calabrese/45
John Caltagirone/79
Michael “Mikey Batts” Cardello/70
Ronald “Ronnie Mozzarella” Carlucci/67
Salvatore “ToTo” Catalano/68
Joseph Chilli III/57
John Cicala
Peter “Petey Boxcars” Cosoleto/66
Frank Coppa Jr.
Perry Criscitelli/64
Vincent D'Antonio
Pino D’Aquanno
Michael “Mike Box” DiMaria
Vincent “Vinny Bionics” DiSario/49
Joseph “Joe Shakes” DiStefano/55
Simone Esposito/37
James Galante/71
James Genna/77
Ronald Giallanzo/43
Anthony "T.G." Graziano/72
Joseph Grimaldi
Vito Grimaldi/70
Anthony Guarino (UI)
Joseph "J.B." Indelicato/801
John Licata/70
Joseph Lino/49
Ronald “Ronnie” Lorenzo
Salvatore Maiorino/82
Pasquale Maiorino/49
Salvatore Marchese/80
John “Johnny Boy” Mirabile
Anthony Navarra/38
Philip Navarra/40
John Palazzolo/75
Michael Palmaccio/40 (UI)
Anthony Parisi/80
Frank “Big Frank” Pastore/41
Guiseppe Pizzo/80
Salvatore Ponico
Frank "The Fireman/Big Frank" Porco/82
Michael Primiano/65
Salvatore Puccio/42
Armando “Mondo” Rea/59
Richard “Big Ritchie” Riccardi/63
William "Willie Glasses" Riviello/75
Joseph Sabella/47
Ronald Scala/64
John "Johnny Mulberry" Sciremammano/53
Joseph Taglianetti/74
Arthur "Harvey" Tarzia/50
Joseph Torre/60
Charles "Crazy Charlie" Travella/68
Joseph Yannucci
John "Porky" Zancocchio/53


Imprisoned Members:
Anthony “Ace/T” Aiello/36 (IP/5/06/2031)
Baldassare “Baldo” Amato/56 (IP/L)
Louis "Louie HAHA" Attanasio/64 (IP/1/23/2018)
Robert "Bobby HAHA/Big Bobby" Attanasio/62 (IP/6/05/2015)
Vincent "Vinny Gorgeous" Basciano/51 (IP/L)
Peter ‘Peter Rabbit” Calabrese/63 (IP/2/13/2017)
Michael Cassese/42 (IP/5/22/2014)
Fabrizio "The Herder" DeFrancisci (IP)
Joseph "Joe Desi" DeSimone/74 (IP/7/04/2014)
Anthony “Little Anthony” Donato/50 (IP/8/29/2026)
Vincent “Vinny” Faraci/58 (IP)
Gino Galestro/41 (IP/11/10/2023)
Anthony “Bruno” Indelicato/65 (IP/9/28/2023)
Robert "Little Robert" Lino/44 (2/2/2028)
Stephen “Stevie Blue” LoCurto/47 (IP/L)
Peter Lovaglio/51 (IP/3/5/2015)
Bari Mascitti/67 (IP/3/3/2014)
Daniel “Dirty Danny/DeDe” Mongelli/44 (IP/12/06/2023)
Thomas "Tommy Karate" Pitera/54 (IP/L)
John “Bazoo” Ragano/52 (UI/IP)
Louis Restivo/73 (IP/5/07/2014)
Anthony “Skinny” Santoro/50 (UI/IP)
Paul “Fat Paulie” Spina/57 (IP/12/19/2016)
John “Johnny Joe” Spirito/54 (IP/1/18/2021)
Anthony "Tony Green" Urso/76 (12/05/2021)

The Colombo Family 8 capos 76 know made men (not sure,many of them maybe be inactive)

Administration:
1. Boss: Carmine "Junior/The Snake" Persico/80 (IP/L)
-Acting Boss: Andrew "Andy Mush" Russo/79
2. UnderBoss: John "Sonny" Franzese/96 (IP/6/25/2017)
-Acting UnderBoss: Dominic "Donny Shacks" Montemarano/75
3. Consiglieri: ?????
-Acting Consiglieri: Thomas “Tom Mix/Mr. T” Farese/71


Capos:

1. Joseph Baudanza/69/Luca DiMatteo/69 (Acting) - Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island
2. Benjamin "The Little Guy/Claw" Castellazzo/76 (IP/8/15/2015) - Brooklyn and the Bronx
3. Dennis "Fat/Little/The Beard" DeLucia/72 - Brooklyn and the Bronx
4. Thomas “Tom Mix/Mr. T” Farese/71 – South Florida
5. Thomas "Tommy Bop/Shots" Gioeli/61 (IP) – Brooklyn, Staten Island and Long Island
6. Ralph Lombardo/83 – Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island
7. Theodore "Teddy/Skinny" Persico Jr/50 (UI/IP) - Brooklyn
8. Michael Uvino/48 (IP/6/5/2016)/Michael Catapano/50 (IP/5/1/2016) – Brooklyn and Long Island


Soldiers: (Some of these guys are no longer active)

Vincent "Vinny" Aloi/84
Joseph Amato/53
Joseph “Chubby” Audino/69
Salvatore “Sally Bread” Cambria
Frank “Campy” Campanella/56 (UI)
Richard “The Jeweller” Capichano/67
Thomas Capelli
Robert “Bobby Bibbs” Cassamassino/69
Vincent Cascio/69
Alphonse Cirillo/77
Gerard “Jerry Green Eyes” Clamenza/56
James Clamenza
Anthony Colombo/63
Joseph Colombo Jr/62 (UI)
Anthony “Funzied” D’Ambrosia
Andre D'Apice/38
Andrew D’Apice/83
Dennis DeLucia/66
Robert “Rob” Donofrio/51
Vincent “Jimmy Gooch” Febbraro/79
Michael “Mikey” Ferrara
Salvatore Fusco Jr/46
Joseph "Joe Notch" Iannaci/77
Anthony Induisi/59
Frank “Chickie” Leto/76
Salvatore "Tutti" Lombardino Jr/78
Joseph Lupo/85
John Maggio/50
James Malpeso
Anthony Maltese/87
Salvatore Mangiamelli/79
Vincent Manzo/73
Victor Orena Jr/53
John Orena
Charles “Charlie Moose” Panarella/92 (UI)
Daniel “Danny” Persico/50
Theodore “Teddy” Persico Sr/75
Thomas Petrizzo/79
Francesco “Frankie P/Cap" Polito/57 (UI)
Salvatore “Sally Pro” Profaci/73
Vincent "Vinny Unions/Three Fingers" Ricciardo/62
John Rossatti
William “Billy” Russo/50
Frank “Frankie the Bug” Sciortino/81
Gus “Buddy” Spatafora/71
John S-------
Anthony Stropoli/47
Joseph "Joe T" Tomasello/75
Joseph “Joe” Tolino
Joseph Zorzi/79


Possible Members:
Dominick LoGazzo
Angelo Marone
Phil LNU


Imprisoned Members:
Pasquale Amato/75 (IP/L)
Dominick Bretti/76 (IP/L)
Joel "Waverly" Cacace/69 (U/IP/6/24/2020)
Aurelio “Ray” Cagno/67 (IP/L)
Daniel Capaldo/47 (IP/11/01/2015)
Ralph DeLeo/69 (IP/10/2/2025)
Vincent “Chickie” DeMartino/52 (IP/1/01/2025)
John "Jackie" DeRoss/73 (IP/L)
Emanuele “Manny” Favuzza/54 (IP/2/26/2016)
Joseph “Joe Legs” Legrano/66 (IP/12/31/2018)
Angelo Leto (IP)
Craig Marino/41 (IP/9/08/2016)
Joseph “Joe Monte” Monteleone/71 (IP/L)
Victor “Little Vic” Orena/75 (IP/L)
Alphonse "Little Allie Boy" Persico/58 (IP/L)
Nicky Rizzo/86 (IP/4/9/2014)
Anthony "Chucky" Russo/55 (IP/L)
Dino “Little Dino” Saracino/41 (IP)
Joseph Savarese/50 (IP/2/16/2020)
Illario “Fat Larry” Sessa/46 (IP/6/7/2017)
Michael Sessa/50 (IP/L)
Gregory "Greg" Scarpa Jr/56 (IP/10/17/2035)
Robert "Bobby Zam" Zambardi/71 (IP/12/02/2015)

who the fuck are you?

the only thing i like about sam giancana is his qoute about teddy roe and his death photo

u people need to learn to think outside the box, everything ain't black/white

The Cavalcante Family 3 capos know made men 37 mademen

Boss: John "The Eagle/Uncle John" Riggi/85
Underboss: Joseph Miranda/86
Consigliere: Stefano "Steve the Truck Driver" Vitabile/74 (IP/11/24/2013)


Captains:

1. Philip Abramo/64 (IP/1/21/2018)
2. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Giaccobe
3. Giuseppe "Pino" Schifilliti/71 (IP/11/30/2015)


Soldiers:

1. Gaetano Alessi
2. Jerry Balzano
3. Daniel "Danny" Annunziata
4. Anthony DeMaio Sr.
5. James Castaldo/53
6. Amelio Cocchiaro
7. Rosario “Russell” Cocchiaro/68
8. Joseph Collina/62
9. Louis "Louie Eggs" Consalvo/52
10. Carl Corsentino
11. Nicholas “Nick” Cottone
12. Frank D'Amato/62
13. James Gallo/65 (IP/12/22/2021)
14. Francesco “Joe” Gatto/68
15. Leonardo “Larry” Giacobbe
16. Francesco “Frank” Guarraci/55 (UI)
17. Girolamo Guarraggi
18. Charles "Fat Charlie/Big Ears" Majuri/69
19. Anthony "Marshmallow" Mannarino/64
20. Mimmo Marzullo
21. Joseph Merlo Jr/70
22. Joseph “Joey” Merlo III/41
23. Michael Merlo/49
24. Joseph Miglorato
25. Frank Nigro/67
26. Robert "Bobby Basile" Occhipiti
27. Girolamo "Jimmy Gumps" Palermo/72
28. Francesco Paparatto/75
29. Salvatore “Sal” Polizzi
30. Gregory Rago/50 (IP/11/15/2014)
31. Emmanuel "Manny" Riggi
32. John "Junior" Riggi/58
33. Vincent Riggi/58
34. Joseph "Tin Ear" Sclafani/72
35. Charles "Charlie the Hat" Stango
36. Salvatore Timpani
37. Gaetano "Corky" Vastola


Possible Members:
Joseph Venditti

@ Huronathletic:
Stooge idiots? My my. Name calling now. They say if you have to resort to violence...

The stooge idiots are not yours sadly. They are you n your Chicago fan boy clique who make ridiculous claims such as: Chicago number 3 in the US, Chicago LCN earns more than any othe NA LCN etc, etc.

It's simple, don't make ridiculous claims, and you won't get a spanking.
We're only responding to the bed you made. You have to sleep in it.

Hint: Facts are fun!

Yack yack yack, sit the fuck down & compose yourself.

Neither of you clowns has provided anything by way of facts.

Thats right Dago, the most lucrative LCN in the country has 1/2 FBI squad devoted to it (or less considering its east European focus now). There are more field agents devoted to the Philadelphia mafia, which is by all accounts a highly dysfunction family in decline. And at least Philly can display a pattern of behavior over the last 8 years through indictments, something Chicago does not have.

Apparently you guys know something the FBI and the US Attorney's Office doesn't. Please share.

Lets start from the beginning....with the FB friggen EYE...the root of your misconcepetions.
Quite simply, they lie.
Not only DO they lie, the went to the SUPREME FRRIGGIN COURT OF THE US and responded to a suit for the right to lie in both their classified and public documents...In short, the info they publish is meaningless....you guys puking it back and posting it is equally meaningless
I have explained my background, I have explained what I do and do not say in internet venues like this and why. The people you read about I know or am a degree or two away from knowing...Hope this helps

For the record, I am not a "Chicago fan"...Circumstances brought me to Cook County and yes, when I came here, not being stupid, I reaquanted myself with some old associations and made the right contacts. Why the fuck wouldnt I?
Some people question why I have info on the Colombos, Buffalo, Chicago, Rockford and other places. Here is a hint, I dont get it from FBI decoy misinfo, or from internet tabloid bullshitters. I know what I know from being in and around those places, the people in them, and being in and around the life for almost 40 years.

Again with the name calling?

I'm not the one making the assertions my friend.
This is how it works. Make statement, back it up. Don't make statement, don't back up.
See?

No need to get embarrassed now. We all make mistakes.

At 'TheArm': logically whom do you think I/readers here should believe?
A) The largest law enforcement agency in the country (probably the world) with tens of thousands of agents and billions of dollars coupled with the overwhelming majority of general authorities on subject.
Or
B) You. An internet poster who claims there's still a massive unseen unknown to ANYONE LCN conspiracy?

See where I'm going?

But I see we're going in circles here so rather a moot point to continue.

Though I do admire both of your stubbornness in the face of overwhelming consensus.

First...What part of misinformation is a part of the FBI's investigation tactics, so much so they went to the surpreme court to have their right to use it litigated do you NOT understand?
Second...There is no conspiracy
Third...It may be unseen to YOU, but it is not unseen to people close to it.
Who should you beleive?
Really?
I TOLD you, I do not have a dog in the NY vs Chicago pissing contest, I am simply stating facts.

The FBI is not able to hide indictments or pending court cases. The mention of the SUPREME COURT is a retarded red hearing. Family Secerts came down in 2005, since then how many indictments have targeted the chicago?

So I ask again, is there a currently functioning, major family today that has been about to go almost a decade without any indictments against made members?

You are asking us to believe that not only is the FBI and the US Attorney's Office flat out wrong- but that these Chicago guys are smarter and more efficient the sleekest, most secerative, best run genovese family.

Everything points not to a major, ultra-efficient conspiracy, but a MAJOR slow down in blue collar LCN activity.

Let put this as simply as I can...Chicago learned lessons from past mass indictments,
NY didnt and hasn't. It's still living in 1950 and is full of rats, and guys at low levels are still privy to high level information.
Since family secrets that have become leaner, smaller, smarter and about 60% legit.
What is NOT legit are rackets associated with the legitamate businesses, real estate, Construction,the Adult industry, Legal gambling, etc, along with some Shy and street tax.
The Boss-Underbooss-Capo syetem is done in Chicago, that's why there is no one with a target on his back.
It has been replaced by a system of skippers, and street bosses and communications passed between crews and the hiachey on a need to know basis.
The SCOTUS ruling on deception in classified and public documents is far from a read herring. It means that what you read and hear from them is calculated misinformation mixed with truth for 2 reasons, one to decoy reaction and chatter, and the other to detect leaks.

Cmon This is gangster bb.

No logic/common sense allowed!

except for buffalo of course, right?

another funny thing about you and your chicago claims with regards to how secretive they are: you claim to be a former low-level buffalo associate, so how the hell would you be privy to this inside information? are you just that "standup" that you were given access? with the claims you've made about your personal inside knowledge of buffalo, chicago, rockford, milwaukee, and best of all pittsburg still going strong with 3 capos and 20+ made guys, it might be best to start listing the families that you haven't had any working relationships with for the sake of some of the serious posters.

Son, you have no idea who I have and have not had working relationships with, legit or otherwise. You are one who seems to think family association is particioned and exists in a vacume. Don't fel too bad son, it is a common misconception.
When I was "active" I lived in a city with a Bufalo, Scranton and Colombo presence, not to mention rogue Rochester malcontents with Pittsburgh's guys attached to their hip.I have lived in Cook County for 20 years and you bet you ass I sured up my contacts befiore moving here. I have family in Independence Louisiana, so I met some old time Nawlin's guys.
Over the course of 40 years you get to know people, and family affiliation means nothing. I have been to weedings and funerls where I have been introduced as a "friend of mine" more times then I can stand. I am not unique. Anyone with my level of connection would tell you the same thing.
As for "inside information, I have given almost none, you just think it's inside information becuse you get your news from internet sites full of wannabe Mafia hiostorians and the bullshit the FBI puts out.
Who do or did I never have much or any contact with?
LA
SJ
KC (Other then meeting Tuffy DeLuna as a kid)
Denver
Frisco
None

Detroit,
Gambino,
Tampa
very little

It doesn't matter how insulated the hierarchy is. You cannot commit a decade of blue collar LCN-type crime without having many associates and a few soldiers indicted. By there very nature these low level folks get their hands dirty- unless chicago has managed to do away with that as well. Even during the best modern runs (the Chin, Massino, Uncle Joe, Steve Crea) have had some pattern of indictments for low level operators. It speaks well of your organization when indictments happen but only to lower level guys, and they either stand up or have very little information on other crews. When even basic associates don't get indicted- it speaks only to the fact there is very little activity happening.

You cant point to a single historical example of this complete lack of the indictment activity happening. Especially if we are talking post-1970s FBI techniques.

You are just a huge bullshitter that pulls "im connected" anyone even starts scratching the surface of your absurd claims.

Actually no...you are a know nothing chump who thinks histrory can be told in a snapshot, trusts a source who openly admits their information is not to be trusted, and is so far from the street and the places you claim to know about, you have no idea what goes on in plain site there. A simple dribe down North Avenue would be enough for anyone, even someone not interested in these matters, to know a litle something about what is happening.
"Knowing" something is one thing, having enough for indictments is another. How the fuck long did you think the family secrets investgationwent on before the indictments came down?
Since post 1970?
The crew I became a part of ran with impunity from 1968 till almost 1990 with NO one, i'll sayn it again, NO one getting pinched or indicted.
get a clue son

Thats because you can't name a single occurrence of it happening. Even the smoothest and best orgnaization have low level operators indicted- because by there very nature they do the dirty work. But apparently even their low level guys have some sort of unseen magical abilities.

There were plenty of indictments between 2000 and 2005. Indicating activity. Not so much after Family Secrets. That's the difference.

I just gave you one of many examples, and I already explained to you why things have been quiet since family secrets. Short of crayons and paper puppets, I don't see how I can make it much more clear.
My advice, if you want an opinion that makes sense, come to Chicago, the chicago burbs and rockford and take a look around.
See the Cherry picked properties being slated for demolition in Rockford and which areas are being gentrified and find out who owwns them, go to any gentlemens club in the area and see the evidence of human trafficing and prostitution, Go to the fish fry at St Ambrogiois or Cappys in Winnebago or to Tigers bar on a Saterday night and be a fly on the wall, Go up Harlem avenue, North avenue and Grand Avenue and just look around with a curios eye, or go to any bar in stone park and observe....then you might be qualified to have an opinion

Guys connected with the mob make a living at lying, cheating, and stealing - I'm not so inclined that they are a better source of information than the feds. How well do you trust your sources? Since you claim to have first-hand knowledge, there is a chance you may be naturally and unwittingly inflating the importance of your associates and their activities. Similar to an Iraqi or Desert Storm vet seeing some action and thinking it was the most frightening thing imaginable when there are vets from WWII and Nam with stories that put the others to shame. It's all a matter of perspective.

I never claimed to be made, I never claimed to have broken bread with bosses, and I never claimed to be any more connected then I am.
I was a low to mid level associate,but becuse of my family history and the fact that I was looking at RICO and the loss of my freedom till iold age and never flipped a lot of doors were and are open to me that might not have been otherwise.
I was looking at RICO and double digit time in the can, but through sheer dumb luck I ended up doing a bullet
I have never mentioned a name, a crime or a incident in here that has not been covered by the media, law enforcement or both, or is not common knowledge or involved anyone still living, and I never will.

Everything the Arm says makes sense to an Illinois local. I live downstate now, but lived in Melrose for a few years and have extended family who were raised there and went to Catholic school with the Italian kids. I still go up to DuPage quite often, but I've only been in Melrose/Elmwood less times than I can count on one hand in the past decade. Still, I hear gossip from relatives and what the Arm says seems spot on (actually its a lot more info than what I have heard, but makes sense in the context of the area we're talking about).

My only disagreement (if one wants to call it that) relates to the original argument that Chicago is as big as any of the 5 Families or some of the other East Coast operations. My understanding...from news articles...not pretending to know anything first hand...is that many of them are involved with the European Italian organized crime families in moving large scale narcotics. That means that they are probably involved in supplying the street gangs on the East Coast with cocaine and heroin and that means significant profits that would overshadow what I've seen described in regards to the Outfit's activities today.

First thank you...I am just passing on whatb I know, not sure why some of these guys want to make it about me.
As far as "size" goes, if we were talking membership, my list would have looked a bit different.
The question was "rank" and I took in consideration revenue, territory and overall revenue.
Again thanks, nice to hear from someone who can speak from what happens on the ground, not in the media or from law enforcement

Arm,

Thanks for the info as well. Much appreciated.

@ little nickey "And at least Philly can display a pattern of behavior over the last 8 years through indictments, something Chicago does not have." Hey, that's just a testament of Chicago's superior street smarts over Philly. Your proving my point for me. Philly, more east coast narcissistic "hot shots" who hang them self's with their BIG ARROGANT FLAMBOYANT JIVE ASS MOUTHS. Their retards who get caught, who have indictments hanging over their heads bravo, congrats Philadelphia. East coast still acts like its the freaking 1920's. Bunch of big mouth street punks with no street smarts. Chicago does don't act like the east coast! They don't get indictments like they east coast. You think Chicago is dead? Take a stroll down Harlem ave between Irving Park and North Ave on a Saturday night, start your stroll around 6:30pm. Their is a number of spots I can tell you to got to and you would see for your self that the shit is alive and well, but why bother. I'm no expert, I don't hang with fucking mobsters or pretend that I do but I grew up here and still live here, my family is a Sicilian family that is deeply rooted in this city. I would be a complete dumb ass if I did not know what was what and who was who, and for people to just assume that the Outfit is dead, because they have not shown a "pattern of indictments in the past 8 years" I find that mind boggling and completely insane.

@ TheArm "As far as "size" goes, if we were talking membership, my list would have looked a bit different.
The question was "RANK" and I took in consideration REVENUE, TERRITORY and overall REVENUE. EXACTLY! That is what I took in consideration as well. I don't care about "made members" Chicago's Territory is HUGE, they have pockets all over the west and west coast, They bring in more $ every year then just about any other active LCN family. They are still in Vegas for fuck sakes. If there is a shady hotbed of BIG money to be had and its west of the Mississippi river, then you can bet the Chicago Outfit has its hands in it at one level or another. Are they on the level that they were from the 1920's to the 1980's.....of course not, fuck no.

The Outfit's number one bachelor was 'Mad' Sam Destefano.

hahaha TheArm has serious issues, degenerate liar.

I'm not going to get deep into the NY vs chicago discussion but the Luchesse are and have always been the #3 strongest family in the country . This I know for sure , they don't get the credit they deserve because of the Casso disaster .

genovese are clear 1, Gambino a strong 2, Luchesse 3 and that's all I really know for certain. If I were to guess id say Bonnano 4 as I still think they have some lucrative drug rackets . Chicago is certainly viable family and above all other non NY and maybe 1 or so of the NY but given the lack of indictments it's clear illegal activity is down

I think the Gambinos would be number one if They let megale go..
Let's face it He had some bad judgment, Harry Farrington,joe Fursaro Vincent depreta,Case you don't know thats Dean's dad. Back in the 80's he got caught with a couple of pounds of cocaine And he walked. I guess a lot of people Didn't know that; And the people that do no this Are too afraid to talk. Uva's Father in law Donnie Was a High ranking officer In a drug squad. When you get information you want it
back in return. The truth Needs to come out
And get rid of all the fairy tales.A lot more to say but this is all I want to elaborate on right now.

http://www.mobbedup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/The-Outfit-crime-chart.gif

Call me crazy but this does not look like a family on the verge of being dead....Chicago outfit as of 2010. New York fan boys just cant stand it. Not including deceased, incarcerated and associates I counted 119 made men. This 20-30 made guy shit that some of you are saying is retarded. This is Chicago IL, not Wichita Kansas, get with it.

Colombos are more powerful then bonannos imo because they have some labour racketeering operations whereas the bonannos don't.and that article says gambling makes 2 billion in revenue? really?

You really are a moron. These charts are and have always been complete fictitious, some poster puts together a ton of dead guys, guys serving life along with some people mentioned in media reports but not otherwise given details on.

This one specifically has guys as acting capos that died in the 80s on it.

Nice digging though. Great argument.

that chart was made by a couple of guys on the internet, while i respect the work that went into, its very misleading. like for instance the posters that made it admitted that with a lot of guys they didn't differntiate between made guys and associates(so you will see a guy labeled as soldier even though he isn't made) and that a lot of guys labeled as associates were juice customers. you saying that the outfit is the size of the gambino family and have operations all across the western part of the country is a fallacy, i wouldn't doubt that all of the outfits operations are confined to chicago and the surronding suburbs.

I do have to say the chart is interesting in so far as I can pull the lexis records of these people. Maybe one of you fanboys want to give one of them a call, stop by their place or email- ask about how great the outfit is.

Holy shit, i think if 15 outfit guys shot and killed 5 dick faces right in front of you in the middle of Grand ave you would say it was New York guys that did it, and Chicago outfit does not exist.

It probably would be New York guys who would do something like that..If Chicago guys really wanted someone dead they'd probably get a dimwitted gangbanger to do it and get several layers of separation between them and the hit

ya new york guys would do it and get caught and rat on every guy they ever laid eyes on to save their own ass. At least I know to never rob a bank with a New York guy. "figure of speech...I don't rob banks" Bunch of freaking rats. New York is a embarrassment, all that ratting.

so lets see you were totally wrong about that chart that you found which you thought would be concrete proof that the outfit was the real life corleone family, and when that didn't work out you turn to same old tired and played out routine about "rats" that countless outfit fanboys have used before. all it does is make you look pathetic and delusional.

Has it occurred to you that there is less FBI information about The Outfit, because there are less rats?

I'm not saying that's the case, because I don't know, but the main argument I see against Chicago being active is that there have been less busts and less FBI information in recent years.

Well, maybe there are simply less rats in Chicago?

I don't know, like I said

If were talking real criminal activity then id say philly over decal. I cant speak for chicago or boston, but if chicago is 60% legit then its not an lcn family.

philly, because of its north jersey crew has more profitable activity then the decals.

how do you know about scoops crew over in south jesey
dry snitch

it isn't exactly a secret that philly has had a crew in north jersey for the past 30+ years and its currently being run by scoops licata……..dry snitch? do realize what site your on?

I think this thread should be left to die. Clearly noone other than the people who are being told what they want to hear takes TheArm seriously. I'm sure that serious Chicago posters like Nicky eyes and maybe even ChiTown find his claims ridiculous. The thing about NY having alot of rats is that alot of them have been high up, like Massino,Vitale,Gravano,Casso,etc, as far as we know not one of them has the type of widespread knowledge that The Arm has .

We need a list. Feel free to add to it.

1.Buffalo
2.Chicago
3.Colombo
4.'ndrangheta (in Canada)
5.NE
6.Rockford
7.Milwaukee
8.Pittsburgh

My guess is 9 will be Atlantis

Scoops retired. It is disrespectful when you call a man a criminal when he is a retired car salesman.

@Dellacroce That chart is pretty spot on quite honestly, from the boss on down. I can see some incorrect bs in the chart but for the most part it is spot on from the number of crews, the names of the crews and the names of the people in it. Most of these guys in that chart are free alive and well.

except that on that chart everyone and their fucking brother is a made guy. and the people that made the chart admitted that they listed juice customers as associates just to beef it up(which is BS, if you did that on a NY chart there would be like 10,000 associates). they probably got the very basic structure of the organization right, but anyone who thinks that chart is "spot on" is just seeing what they wanna see.

Chicago has a better skyline than New York. And better hot dogs

Fucking tomatoes and lettuice on a hot dog lol, sounds like some kid with down syndrome trying to invent a new sandwich.

There is no fucking lettuce on a real Chicago dog. And you guys will argue about any damn thing I see.

haha i was just kidding about the hot dog…just busting balls, but truthfully I've never really thought a hot dog needed anything more than some mustard but to each his own i guess.

I think both sides make valid points. The arm makes an interesting point about knowing vs. indicting is a different thing, and it is easy for someone in some podunk town in nowheresville to make statements. ther eis something to be said for walking in the neighborhoods.

ON the other side, the charts i see online are ridiculous. And the lack of indictments is usually inicative of a lack of activity. all the feds need to do is flip is a shy or sports customer who is feeilng threatened and they got the shy on extortion, shy and sports gambling.

You are wrong southjeresy. Chicago has invented a new method of running tons of multi-million dollar books without a single customer ever getting in contact with the feds. The FBI just can't find a single customer, because apparently they are "insulated" too.

In all seriousness New York has done a great job turning their city around since the 70's. We could learn a lot from New York over here

That is a good point , as Chicago trends legal , I see that trend continuing over time .

With NY / NJ is still basically the same scams minus Fish Fulton , windows and gas rackets

There is still huge gambling network here that requires hundreds of workers , a lot of extortion , huge shy books , still big construction , garbage, ports and a lot of drugs (especially high end weed ). They need 1000s of workers to make this happen , these are hands on businesses mainly dealing in cash and stilll needs a good share of violence and intimidation and is why we still see big busts every year but it ain't coming down anytime soon , it's too big .

With Chicago I see very little activity and that's really the only way to track this thing , as long as activity is big , indictments will be coming , always have , always will . Don't get me wrong it's still there but seems to be shrinking rather than the growth / stabling there has been in nj/ ny

well either that or they are finding ways to duck law enforcement I mean for example the Gambinos and The Luccheses should have at least a 1000+ people working for them so where are all these guys and what are they doing, plus not all the soliders have been identified in those families, although many have been there is still a lot that are either unconfirmed or they just don't know about I would assume.

My instinct tells me that the huge influence of Mexican cartels has some adverse influence on the Outfit in Chicago. For instance, two years ago El Chapo Guzman, the Sinaloa drug lord, was declared Public Enemy #1 in Chicago by the FBI..first time that has happened since Capone. Many in the local media laughed, but they conveniently ignored the multitude of recent arrests of Mexican nationals with direct connections to the cartels and millions of dollars worth of drugs and cash made both in the city limits and the suburbs

And at least for the Luchesse there are tons of associates

Now you and me probably look at associates differently

Many associates have legal jobs but are gambling agents on the side , or move

Some drugs on the side or are involved in the contraction or garbage business

Geez just look at all the big busts that included Luchesse , the massive jan 2011 historic busts , the huge NJ crew busts In 2008 and 2010 . The Tacetta weed bust a few weeks ago , the Scarfo JR bust involving Taking over First Financial and looting $12m. The big garbage bust in jan 2013.

Now some of these also involve other families but a lot of Luchesse guys were busted in these too . This is what I am talking about , this shit is everywhere but you see none of these type busts in Chicago in 10 years . The level of illegal activity just isn't anywhere near the same level IMO. Now I'm not saying it's not there , just no where near the manpower and activity and this is just 1 family .

Exactly little Nicky . You just can't have large scale gambling , shy and labor racketeering business without indictments of at least the associates every few years, anybody who has been in he biz or knows some players knows this . The reality is it just ain't happening there to a large level anymore , which you would think posters view as a good thing lol

@the dago.

If DB, LittleNicky and Dellacroce's logic can't now finally convince you that your beloved outfit is not the all singing all dancing colossus it once was but merely a shell you're simply incapable of understanding.

But the thing is there have been arrests
-Casey Szaflarski with poker machines
-Rudy Fratto with bid rigging
-Sarno
-Paul Carparelli

Well I guess we just disagree on what we consider big busts .

Those were really important arrests but not the big takedowns you see in NY and that IMO is indicative of the difference in manpower where the Genovese Gambino and to a lesser extent the Luchesse are still big diverse organizations

Chicago IMO are much smaller than them with less much illegal revenue

Some of the people here have said that Chicago still gets a piece of Latin American casinos.

If thats true there may be some big money there, but I've only heard that on this site, so I don't know if thats true.

Better to be legit anyways. If the Outfit is mostly a legit, thats a victory for the Outfit

Well if it goes legit , which many suspect , then that would explain the lack of arrests and violence the last decade however if most of the members go legit the outfit structure will slowly fade away and there won't be much for mob watchers to discuss

The top five is still the New York families.
1. Genovese
2. Gambino
3. Lucchese
4. Bonanno
5. Colombo

There was a time when Chicago would be number three, but after Vegas they lost a lot of power due to those cases and Family Secrets did a lot of damage to that family. I would place Chicago at number six on the list despite the shape of the Colombo family, the Colombos are in better shape then the Outfit.

I'm curious what people mean when they use the phrase "going legit"? If you are talking about like what happened in buffalo, going into a food business, that's complete legit and no longer really organized crime. They have to compete like every other guy and the LCN really is no longer LCN. That kind of going "legit" is another word for people just leaving the life all together and admitting the mafia in chicago is dying.

Then you got guys like Nicky Jr that believe that white collar scams are a form of going "legit".

I guess a middling position is using the front businesses for more than money laundering, but relying on them as a source of revenue. But there is still some criminal revenue.

Then it's no longer the outfit is it?

Yes largely leaving the life , no longer using violence or intimidation as part of their biz

Mainly getting contracts / biz / etc mostly legally , possibly thru connections which some construe as having some illegitimacy to it but no longer whacking , beating up or threatening people to get or increase their revenue .

IMO No Nose played a part in Chicago re treating into a more legitimate route and maybe when he dies we see a resurgence but right now they are likely the weakest they have ever been from a manpower / violence perspective . Some quality guys for sure but what happens when they go is the big ?

If the outfit goes legit that is a win for Chicago , a win for former Outfit members but clearly not a win for the Outfit itself as an illegal OC organization

The only real damage family secrets was putting away Marcello. Aside from him, everyone else was for the most part retired or shelved.

I didn't follow the trial very closely but it seemed many of the alleged crimes happened many years ago , almost like recent Luftansa heist .

However Marcello seemed to be a guy that could of changed the strategy and really ramped up street activity, recruitment etc. so from that viewpoint it was probably a big blow

The heads of the five families and three of the four MobWives answer directly to Joey the Clown

If you think Chicago rivals any NY family you need to see a shrink immediately. End of story. Close this stupid fuckin thread already

why do all these pro new york rats hate on the outfit? And wish for it to be dead? You think New york is holy water or something. I live here on the north west side of this city, the shit is in plane sight!! Let it be clear NEW YORK ISN'T SHIT, ITS NOTHING BUT A BIG RAT NEST FULL OF COWARD PUSSY RATS. Jesus fucking Christ look at New York's history! Every single New York mob activity ends with some dumb ass east coast dude ratting. Here in Chicago they don't rat! And they don't get caught no where near the same frequency as New York. The lack of indictments is a testimony of Chicago's superior street smarts over bitch ass New York. I cant believe People on the east coast or where ever think the outfit is dead. Ya, the 3rd Largest city in America with 10 million people in the Chicago land area has a dead mafia Organization....idiots. That's like saying fat people just don't eat butter fingers anymore. I feel like the Marines vs Army over here in that the Army is responsible for 70% of the fighting and dieing in every war the U.S. has ever been involved in and the Army has received 80% of all medal of honor medals ever awarded yet the Marines some how think they are the shit and better then the Army.

Dago that was the smartest post I've seen since I've signed up. Kudos to you.

Seriously. Do u have to think real hard to breath or does it come natural?

i got to say. lots of guys are called outfit, but really are just italian criminals. we got to stop calling italians mafia beucase they are involved in some cirmes. other guys mentioned in the outfit chart i am sure have no connected to the "mafia" and are only on there because of our anti-italian media.

Laugh. My. Fucking. Ass. Off.

You Chicago guys sure give me a chuckle. Thanks for the expense.

sonny u live in austrialia. have you even met an italian before

gold.

It would be if it were true.

You obviously haven't a clue as to how many Italians, Calabrians in particular, are in Australia.

carmela, what do you do besides embarrass and haress upstanding italians citizens with this mafia garbage

I was just trying to correct what you said about Italians in Australia. If you feel embarrassed by your ignorance, then do something about it. Read a book.

Come on Carm, There may be italians in australia....but only jersey(particularly north jersey) can u find the rare breed of the SUPER ITALIANS!!!

Now didn't the sarno case , family secrets and mannel current case all have rats / informants ? Ratting is an issue for all OC

Yes that's true but Chicago has never had a major player rat. Aside from Nick Calabrese, who was a soldier, Chicago has never had a made guy rat.

Compared to New York who has had a boss (Massino), multiple underbosses (Casso, Gravano, Vitale), consiglieres, and capos flip.

To say nobody in Chicago rats is untrue but the ratio compared to other cities is far greater and there's no denying that. The lack of ratting could play a part on there being less indictments. And I'm pretty sure aside from family secrets, all the cases were from undercover agents, not rats.

It's also much smaller than any of the New York families. You are talking about 28 made guys in Chicago (maybe) and 600+ in New York. So your sample size 95% New York, 5% Chicago- and then you express surprise when New York has more rats. Of course it does, the operation is orders bigger.

We are talking apples and oranges.

Detroit has also had only one rat, IIRC, but that sure as hell doesn't mean they are a more lucrative or successful organization than NYC. More soldiers, more rats, more attention from the feds, more indictments... NYC families will still be here fifty years from now. I cannot safely say that for any of the others.

I know that wop immigration to 'Straya has spiked big time over the past 50 years. Northjerseys jab made me chuckle regardless.

A lot of you armchair loudmouth punks have no qualms with dishing it out, but ya can't take it.

600 members (god knows how many are wired) scrambling for the same dollar

30-40 members free to commit scams in the most crooked state in the country

so yeah it's apples and oranges

True there's more members in New York but there's cities like Boston and Philadelphia that have just as much rats and have way less members than New York.

Philly has had more rats than the Genoveses and the Gambinos combined.

Good point.

Nothing to be proud of though. I was just hearing about the billion dollar shortfall in the state budget for this upcoming year.

We may end up the first state that needs to be bailed out by the federal government. Plus, we're like 48th or 49th for attracting business. We're fucked

Who even gives a shit. Their all mostly low life's

What's up cheech

Nick calabrese was a made guy no?

He said that Nick was a soldier.

Wtf was this thread about anyways...

It was about the subservience of Manhattan to Elmwood Park

It was a dick-measuring contest between Chicago and NY. Glasgow won

I am not a "Chicago fan" and frankly this pissing contest between NY and Chicago o0n this form is stupid, but everytime I see that "28 made guys" in Chicago myth I literally laugh out loud
WHEN will you guys learn that public FBI public information is deliberatly Misinformation and desighned to be misleading????
For the 5th time, they went to the US Supreme court for the right to use this misinformation as an investigative method.

In Chicago, more specificly Elmwood Park, Melrose park and the NW Burbs, as previously expalned, means going into legitamate dealings, and earning by the activity that surrounds it.
This is nothing new, if fact it is a throwback to the 50s and 60s.
For example, the construction of the interstate highway system MADE Buffalo,The LIUNA pension funds was like a money tree and money laundry all rolled into one. Buffalo controled everything from the heavy equipment to the Por a Pottys and no one got a contract without a "performence bond"
This is not unlike what the outfit and Rockford are doing in Cook, Lake, Mchenry, Boon and Winnebago counties, just on a smaller scale.

Doing good Nick, just got back from a week in boca. Hope all is well.

Yeah, but Chicago has never had a preponderance of made guys. Let's say for the sake of argument that they have 30-40 made guys now - that's about 40-50% of the total members at the Outfit's peak in the '50s and '60s, roughly proportional to the decline in the New York families over that same time period. 28 identified made guys, six or seven years ago, is not too preposterous of a notion.

There are more than 28 made guys just in Bridgeview, Elmwood park and Melrose park. It is really a matter of Semantics becuse actually, no one in the outfit is "made" in the traditional sense anyway, never really have been.
You have to understand Chicago has always had a different layout and format than anyone else.
Since family secrets they have completly retooled.
No more Boss-Underboss, capos etc
It has been replaces by a chain of skippers and street bosses with no clearly defined hiarchey, and thus no one with a target on their back.

smart move on their part, copying the calabrians!

They don't even have that much structure, becuse they have no single organization,just gangs and alliences.

So to clarify the 'modern day outfit' is composed of non made guys with no defined structure involved in legitimate business.

Fuck me, I think I'm a member!

You need to elaborate on statements like that & be a little bit more specific, or keyboard smart alecs like Sonny shithead will continue to make snide remarks.

Statements like the one you just made are a little bit too vague. Intriguing, but nonetheless vague.

1. Of all the rehashed topics on these forums, ranking families has to be #1. And it inevitably leads to crime family homerism that we see in this thread.

2. The estimates of the current size of the Outfit, from several FBI officials in Chicago, are what they are: 25-30 made members and "a little over 100 associates." The feds have no reason to put out phony or misleading figures. If you don't like those figures, and it helps you to sleep better at night by claiming the Outfit is bigger than the FBI says it is, more power to you. But I'll take the feds over somebody's "gut" any day of the week.

3. The Outfit is not "barely functioning" or "dying." It is still a viable, active mob family. But the Outfit of the 21st century is much closer to the few remaining small families outside New York than it is to any of the NY families. If we compare apples to apples, and go with official estimates, the families in New England or Philadelphia, for example, are said to have 40-50 made members and about 100 associates. So the Outfit has roughly the total manpower each of those families do. The member-to-associate ratio is just a little different.

4. There is little west of Chicago for the Outfit to have any influence over at this point. There is no formally structured, viable family remaining west of Chicago. And the Outfit itself has little presence left in Las Vegas and little-to-no presence elsewhere in the west. The vast majority of it's operations do not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs.

5. No government or law enforcement official has ever said the Outfit generates more money than any other single Italian OC entity in the U.S.

6. Indictments are the single clearest sign of a family's activity, especially over the long run. It's why we see so many in New York, less so in places like Philadelphia or Chicago, and none in places like Denver or San Francisco. This is a simple concept that anyone can understand.

7. Considering the Outfit has very little interest in the drug trade, the Mexican cartels and DTO's probably have little impact on it in Chicago.

8. While it's true that the Outfit has been one of the more disciplined and secretive families, including in recent years, it's attrition that is the real factor to consider and what will ultimately lead to the Outfit's end.

9. In terms of the American mob in the 21st century, New York is the center of the universe. Now more than ever. Roughly 75% of it's remaining membership belong to the 5 NY families.

10. Simply being a local, "walking the streets," or being "on the ground" in a given area does not afford one the type of inside knowledge so many on these forums have pretended to have. Sorry but living in the right zip code doesn't mean you know who is running the local crime family, how many members it has, or how much it makes. To pretend so is an insult to the intelligence of others on these boards.

Actually,quoting the FBI, who by their own admission disseminates misinformation, and in fact went to the Supreme court for the right to do so, is what is intellectually inert, and insulting
Having said that, you did manage to get a few things right this time in your bullet pointed diatribe, none of which contradicts however what many of us have been saying all along

Finally, no, Joe and Jane Normal and their 2.5 kids and their dog who live in the 60018 area code would for the most part not even notice what is plain as day to those of us who visit and do business the 60018 area code, (Just one example) and know what it “looks like” and know people, are a hell of a lot more a reliable source than someone who has never been to Rosemont except to the car show at the Stephans center, and relay on the FBI to tell the truth

Not even in the same galaxy with what I actually said

It's for another thread, but in short, the Calabrase gangs he re4furred to are completely autonomous, not so with the outfit crews.As I have said many times, there is no such organization as 'Ndrangheta. That is simply a blanket name for a loosely connected collection of gangs.There is however, an organization called the outfit. That is the difference

I think we both know that's just a weak attempt on your part to throw what the feds say out the window whenever it suits you.



You're playing the same geography card that many before you have. Judging by the comments in this very thread, I'd argue not living in some of these areas can an advantage. That way, one doesn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak, and doesn't feel inclined to get defensive for the sake of one's hometown crime family. They can look at the evidence totally objectively.

You're a good example of what I was talking about before. Even if there was still a family in Rockford that was making new members, it's not like you simply living there would make you privy to that info. Just so you can turn around and post about it online. You undercut your arguments with your own ridiculous claims.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the Outfit is still functioning as one single family, with Elmwood park at the top, headed by Johnny DiFronzo, even though Cicero is the larger crew numbers wise?

I never post in these threads because they're nothing but trouble. But I'll say this much: I don't care where you're from. New York, Chicago, Salt Lake City, or Boise Fucking Idaho. If your self-esteem is directly tied into the strength of your local criminal organization, then you don't belong on these boards. You belong in a psychiatrist's office .

I think he meant to elaborate more on the current structure of the Outfit.

With that said, I'll give my interpretation as to the Outfit's past and present structure based on what I've read over the years. A lot of this is educated conjecture so please don't take offense if it doesn't jive with your notions on how the Outfit operates or operated.

As far as the present is concerned, I don't think they operate with any traditional LCN organizational structure and, with the possible exception of the Aiuppa/Cerone era, never have. From what little information I have gathered, DiFronzo has taken a backseat and is more or less retired, acting as an advisor in much the same way as Accardo and others before him.

There is still a top boss, (and who it is is up for conjecture, although I have heard D'Amico mentioned many times) but no underboss or consigliere. Below the boss is a committee or panel who function more or less as decision makers and a buffer zone between the street crews and the boss. Guys like Andriacchi, Pete DiFronzo, Solly D, and Inendino (older guys who are more or less retired from street operations) would be here. Below them are the street crews, three or four depending on who you ask and at what time of day, Elmwood Park (Tony Dote), Cicero/Melrose Park (John Matassa, Jr. or Sal Cautadella), Grand Ave. (Albert Vena), and South Side (Toots Caruso), presumed capos in parentheses.

When DiFronzo took over he more or less just had a circle of guys he trusted (Andriacchi, D'Amico, his brothers, Lombardo before he was locked up) who collectively acted as his underboss and consigliere. Jimmy Marcello's position was never definitely stated at any time, although he has been mentioned by the feds as a street boss, the definition of which could mean anything from the boss of Cicero to the top boss on the streets. We will probably never know for sure unless somebody else talks.

When Aiuppa was the top boss, the family functioned more along the lines of traditional LCN, with Aiuppa as boss, Cerone as under, and Al Tornabene as consigliere. From the seventies until Aiuppa's and Cerone's imprisonment in the eighties, the Outfit was as close structurally as it would ever be to the Five Families, with their current administration structure and the institution of the traditional making ceremony. As far as the latter is concerned, I tend to side with Calabrese's testimony as well as Frank's admittance on tape as support of the existence of a making ceremony in this time period.

Prior to Aiuppa, Giancana was more or less by himself at the top of the Outfit with Ricca and Accardo as advisors on an "upper echelon" panel of sorts, which probably included guys like Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex. Making ceremonies may or may not have been in place in some areas of the city under certain crews, but I don't believe it was a requirement - if a guy like Giancana or Battaglia or Buccieri said you were with the Outfit that was good enough. Depending on who you ask, Cerone may have operated as UB towards the end of Mooney's reign.

Before Mooney, during the Nitti/Ricca/Campagna/Accardo reign, the Outfit was, for lack of a better term, a melting pot of criminals of all backgrounds but with a strong Italian core. Guys like Ralph Pierce, Eddie Vogel, and the aforementioned Humphreys were basically the level of LCN capos and were afforded respect as such. This was basically a holdover from the Capone era and non-Italians would continue to play a big part in Outfit operations for the next several decades - although on a gradually reduced scale. Sometime around the late fifties, the Outfit's leadership structure became exclusively Italian, although Hump and Gus Alex were still kept on for their political and financial acumen.

Great post, Snakes.

I keep reading that the FBI is giving out fake information but I find it amusing
They only do that for the outfit.

Are all of the families membership estimates low or just Chicagos?

So they say the outfit has 30 members but they are just lowballing everyone and everyone in Chicago knows there are 100. They say the Genovese have 200-250 but they aren't misleading us with that figure and if they are it's a higher estimate
Right?

The Outfit has always been lower than NYC but the number of non-Italian associates has always been proportionately higher. I don't think the Outfit ever numbered much more than 100 active made/initiated/vested/whatever members.

You could say that the Outfit's numbers were higher if you include all of the Midwest families which were under the Outfit's thumb at one point (and basically acted as Outfit satellites in their respective areas), although they are now all but extinct as functioning organizations.

They don't only do it with the outfit.
Some examples in the past 10 years or so that I happen to be familier with...check for accuracy if you wish.
These are not mistakes, the FBI knew full well the reports were wrong
The Gambino family was "decimated"

"Rockford was extinct, followed by them naming a new boss, followed by them declaring the new boss an Outfit associate, following by them naming a new boss, and again declaring them extinct"

Jake Minnicone was a Colombo associate(He was actually a Buffalo made guy)

The Falange crew was made of old time Buffalo made guys (3 were made, the rest were associates)

Joe Falcone was a Pittston/Scranton Capo (he was a Buffalo capo with strong NE Pennsylvania ties)

Arrests in the Murder of Charlie Coop were imminent (it has been a cold case for 50 years)

I could go on.....

I think he meant to elaborate more on the current structure of the Outfit.

With that said, I'll give my interpretation as to the Outfit's past and present structure based on what I've read over the years. A lot of this is educated conjecture so please don't take offense if it doesn't jive with your notions on how the Outfit operates or operated.

As far as the present is concerned, I don't think they operate with any traditional LCN organizational structure and, with the possible exception of the Aiuppa/Cerone era, never have. From what little information I have gathered, DiFronzo has taken a backseat and is more or less retired, acting as an advisor in much the same way as Accardo and others before him.

There is still a top boss, (and who it is is up for conjecture, although I have heard D'Amico mentioned many times) but no underboss or consigliere. Below the boss is a committee or panel who function more or less as decision makers and a buffer zone between the street crews and the boss. Guys like Andriacchi, Pete DiFronzo, Solly D, and Inendino (older guys who are more or less retired from street operations) would be here. Below them are the street crews, three or four depending on who you ask and at what time of day, Elmwood Park (Tony Dote), Cicero/Melrose Park (John Matassa, Jr. or Sal Cautadella), Grand Ave. (Albert Vena), and South Side (Toots Caruso), presumed capos in parentheses.

When DiFronzo took over he more or less just had a circle of guys he trusted (Andriacchi, D'Amico, his brothers, Lombardo before he was locked up) who collectively acted as his underboss and consigliere. Jimmy Marcello's position was never definitely stated at any time, although he has been mentioned by the feds as a street boss, the definition of which could mean anything from the boss of Cicero to the top boss on the streets. We will probably never know for sure unless somebody else talks.

When Aiuppa was the top boss, the family functioned more along the lines of traditional LCN, with Aiuppa as boss, Cerone as under, and Al Tornabene as consigliere. From the seventies until Aiuppa's and Cerone's imprisonment in the eighties, the Outfit was as close structurally as it would ever be to the Five Families, with their current administration structure and the institution of the traditional making ceremony. As far as the latter is concerned, I tend to side with Calabrese's testimony as well as Frank's admittance on tape as support of the existence of a making ceremony in this time period.

Prior to Aiuppa, Giancana was more or less by himself at the top of the Outfit with Ricca and Accardo as advisors on an "upper echelon" panel of sorts, which probably included guys like Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex. Making ceremonies may or may not have been in place in some areas of the city under certain crews, but I don't believe it was a requirement - if a guy like Giancana or Battaglia or Buccieri said you were with the Outfit that was good enough. Depending on who you ask, Cerone may have operated as UB towards the end of Mooney's reign.

Before Mooney, during the Nitti/Ricca/Campagna/Accardo reign, the Outfit was, for lack of a better term, a melting pot of criminals of all backgrounds but with a strong Italian core. Guys like Ralph Pierce, Eddie Vogel, and the aforementioned Humphreys were basically the level of LCN capos and were afforded respect as such. This was basically a holdover from the Capone era and non-Italians would continue to play a big part in Outfit operations for the next several decades - although on a gradually reduced scale. Sometime around the late fifties, the Outfit's leadership structure became exclusively Italian, although Hump and Gus Alex were still kept on for their political and financial acumen.[/quote]

Well stated

@ivyleague


the fbi indicted that carpinelli (sp) character and his crew with no mention of mafia ties

so can u really just "listen to what the feds say"?

u act like information about a secret society is broadcast on the nine o'clock news

No mention of Mafia ties in the Carparelli indictment? What? He was taking orders from Solly D.

That "the Outfit was only traditional Cosa Nostra during the Aiuppa era" is nonsense, guys.

They always sat on the commission, have always been on the government's lcn chart, etc. Giancana, Ricca, Accardo, all of these guys were hardcore la Cosa nostra, to say otherwise would be ridiculous. Everyone always brings up the "but but Mooney on the wiretap said he thought the making ceremony was goofy" honestly those guys fucked with those wiretaps & lied through their teeth for various reasons so often who the hell knows. New York & the other families have had plenty of high ranking non Italians. And the non Italians in Chicago were never made or let into the INNER inner circle.

John gotti was a quarter Jewish.

Chicago may have some unique peculiarities regarding the way they go about business, but they are traditional cosa Nostra.

It was actually junior gotti that was a 1/4 jew

Veasey was 1/2 polak

No, I agree with these statements. But seeing as how they were halfway across the country and not in the shadow of NYC like Philly, NJ, etc., they ran their family "their way" which at times differed substantially from the east coast guys. Guys like the Hump and Gus Alex were way higher on the food chain in Chicago than similar-type guys in NYC, who was much more closed-minded towards doing business with non-Italians and even non-Sicilians in some instances.

But you are right, and maybe I didn't stress this enough in my earlier post, but they were still LCN, and they still sat on the Commission.

Not to nit pick as I find non italian involvement in LCN early century quite interesting but was this a peculiar Chicago phenom? IE Ill cite Lansky as a prime example. Also Siegel, lepke etc can be noted as prominent Jewish OC figures involved with East coast LCN and being non-italian.

It isn't a Chicago phenomenon, that's a myth. It just looks more prominent on paper because there are less overall members.

It's also always been popular in Chicago for Italians to change their last name to an Irish/American/etc one.

Ah. Interesting. Always been a point of interest for yours.

My thanks.

Little presence in Las Vegas? What is the little presence in terms of activity?

@ Dellacroce "Come on Carm, There may be italians in australia....but only jersey(particularly north jersey) can u find the rare breed of the SUPER ITALIANS!!!"

Super Italians hu, you mean those narcissistic, fruit cake, metro sexual homos who spend most of their time in tanning beds, plucking their eyebrows, fist pumping in the air and have a vocabulary of a 14 year old...fucking guidos, ya some super Italians come out of Jersey alright. Italians from the North East are a fucking embarrassment. Literally a bunch of clowns. As far as the size of the Chicago outfit, if the Outfit wanted to they could have 2000 made members tomorrow all full blooded Italians ready to work. THEY DON'T WANT A LARGE ORGANIZATION for numerous reasons. Look at New York, its been a huge failure for the last 30 years based mainly on its size. The more idiots in your ranks the more loose lips you will have.

@dago

Youse a fugazzy!

And therein the case rests.
Chicago insanity v the rest of the world.

Huron: you sure you want this guy on your team? Wash thy hands old son. Soap n water chop chop if I were you.

What I am sure he means, but has perhaps over stated, is there there are a lot of associates and fringe assciates in the Chicagoland area who never got made. Rockford has opend the books for some, but most are out there earning and kicking up.....that is what he meant

@ dellacroce "Youse a fugazzy!.....You don't really talk like that do you? if the Outfit wanted to they could have 2000 made members tomorrow all full blooded Italians ready to work.


And therein the case rests.
Chicago insanity v the rest of the world.

Huron: you sure you want this guy on your team? Wash thy hands old son. Soap n water chop chop if I were you.

Holy shit, know body ever heard of a figure of speech around here or what? Bunch of John Gotti dick suckers over here.

Fuck New York. A 30 man platoon of U.S. Army Infantrymen would take out the entire New York LCN in 3 days. Bunch of old & middle aged, soccer watching grease ball pricks.

From guys who outside of a layover at O'hare, have never set foot in Chicago...

no shit hu

The same type of comparison could be said about you trying to talk about Italian mafias in Italy, which you cannot speak about.

Generally when I talk about the Calabrase gangs, I am talking about the Canadian incarnation, who I have had brushes and c ontact with. No matter what you have heard, they are a bunch of inept drug addicts who shake down bingo parlors and sell liquer and cigertts with no tax stampp out of the trucks of cars, they are a joke,,,jus sayin

Your grammar and spelling is getting worse by the post. According to what you said, you're very "articulate and a master wordsmith" when you're angry.
Maybe you'd like to get angry so I can understand you better.

Out of everyone on this board, I wonder who has all actually been to Italy. If they been to Italy I wonder what regions. I may start a thread about that.

Honey clearly you can understand me fine, and I'm gusessing compared to the company you keep, I am Alan Fucking Rickman...LOL
English is not my first langauge, but if you would like me to turn write an english paper and run it all through a spell check..For you....no problem

Alright, you're new here so you get an explanation. Stop the civil war now. The NY/Chicago debate is old and tired and simply irritating.

I don't even know who Alan Rickman is.
So what is your native language, if you don't mind saying.

Time to tone it down. It's obvious nobody believes your claims here so stop with the fantasies and chill.

I've been. Landed in Milan worked my way down and left a month later from Rome.

I was in Greece once, that's pretty close to italy

Actually..I have had people PM me and guess correctly who I am in R/L...but as you wish

Alan Rickman is a British actor who is known for his distictive voice and his flawless articulation.
I spoke both Italian and Sicilian before I spoke English.

Somebody PMed me and guessed that I am Madonna in real life. I said "correct". It was a good day all around.

Amen !

Ahh I get it. So you're trying to say compared to the company I keep, you're well versed in english. Ok, got it.

I actually neither confirmed or denied, as is my media policy

yeah..it was a joke...thus the LOL

I'm a pretty nice guy when you get to know me

Anyway..yes...been to Sicily several times...Marionapoli is where my fathers side originated

cool

What's your point? Just because the feds may not specifically cite a mob connection in a certain case, it doesn't mean they are not aware of it. Quit looking for excuses to ignore the feds just because you don't like what they say.

And no, the mob doesn't broadcast it's affairs on the nine o'clock news. That's why we are largely dependent on the feds who investigate them. And why somebody simply living in Chicago and posting on the internet isn't going to know much of anything about the Outfit's inner workings.



You had the Hogan/Passo IBT case in 2001. Sam Cecola being banned by the Nevada Gambing Commission in 2001. And the Crazy Horse Too bust in 2003.

I'll sayn it one more time, the reason to doubt the Feds is becuse they lie. I don't say they lie, they say they lie and once again, went to the highest court in the land for the right to do so. I gave multiple examples of this earlier in the thread
I'm not baiting or trolling, this is a sereous question;
How and why would you ever beleive an entity who by it's own admission, publishes lies and misinformation ?

It's funny that they only lie when it is information that goes against your position. It also doesn't mean that because there is some possibility of misinformation, that they always most spead misinformation. Most of their five families material over the last decade has been accurate. So continuing to whine about a supreme court cases is way off topic (although I would love to know the citation of this mythical case and see legal analysis beyond someone with a 4th grade education).

As I said before, they cannot hide indictments and court proceedings. The lack of substantive indictments only points in one direction, a major fall in blue collar LCN activity. End of story.

@ivyleague


u scream about indictments, now u have an indictment, and it still ain't good enough for u

totally contradicting yourself

What indictment? The one with some lunatic threatening possibly Chicago-affiliated guys? If anything that was a plot AGAINST the outfit. And it made the outfit sound pathetic more than anything. Can you imagine such a outlandish plot against them 30 years ago when it was a strong family.

All of you are dipshits. They St. Louis Crime family appoints the head of the Outfit and the Five Families. You've never heard of them because they are so fucking secretive that law enforcement doesn't even think that the exist anymore. They're so secretive that none of the crews know who the other crews are cause the crew don't talk to each other. They're so secretive that the members never even talk to each other. The St. Louis crime family is a guy on The Hill sitting in his basement on a couch covered with plastic.

@Dago:

If you'd like to stop being treated as stupid. Stop saying stupid things.

Simple see?

Most of their five families material over the last decade has been accurate?
You are joking right?
As recently as 2008 the FBI had the Gambino Family "All but extinct with a splintered leadership"
I'll say it again...they lie
They have publicly admitted they lie
They sued to lie
And you don't question them?
Really?
For the record, I for one never denied a "decrease in activity", nor did I say they "always" lie..if they did that would defeat their purpose. Again, what you seem either incapable or unwilling to understand is the mix of truth and misinformation is an investigative method, both to detect leaks and to provoke chatter to gather for intelligence.
A good rule of thumb is that is you KNOW that someone is lying at least part or most of the time, err on the side of believing little or nothing.

This is an exception. THIS you can believe!

You don't have to take my word for it, look at the no less than 5 court cases over the past 20 years, the most recent one in which it was determined the only entity they could not lie to was the courts...Islamic Shura Council of S. Cal. v. FBI

Actually, he was asking Al Vena for permission to take out a couple of Outfit affiliated associates.

Oh delicious irony how I love thee.

Refute something I have claimed....I'm still waiting
I think you were one who doubted my word on the Elmwood park/Russian human trafficking connection...OOPS...check out the thread with the article on it,,,Ironic indeed...lol

Can I explain something TheArm? It's not WHAT you say that people take issue with, it's your ridiculous claims of being connected, and that, because of these (alleged) connections we should just take your word on whatever you say in lieu of any actual evidence... i.e. it is ironic because you are known around these parts as something of a hyperbolizer (and that's probably putting it nicely).

I'm sure you live in Chicago. And I'm sure you live somewhere where they might be some outfit presence. But cut the shit. You've never said anything anyone else couldn't find out for themselves through internet research. Further, you play coy about your identity while aggressively pushing the idea that you're a retired mob associate, which is just fucking stupid. What kind of 40+ year old retired criminal goes to online message boards about the topic of crime; to tell anyone who cares to see how mobbed up you are? I can't even...

Like... The hell, dude? I won't call into question your knowledge (although I would submit that many of your opinions are highly biased) as you do genuinely seem to know quite a bit, but come on. We're not stupid.

Ummm Nope. Wasnt me pal. Sorry to burst your bubble.

What I WILL and HAVE called into question is your absurd claims that Buffalo controls large parts of the midwest and that the 7 odd clans of the Hamilton/Toronto region are under its subservience.

You are the ONLY poster across many a board who would actually believe such absurdity

i love you

Whooooo.....it seems you have me confused with someone..I never made either one of those claims.
The only thing CLOSE to that is the FACT that Buffalo still has a presence in Hamilton, which they do.
Careful, your strawman is coming unstuffed

Son..alrady told you, what you beleive or don't belive is about as relivant to me the size of the pimple on your ass.
I have stated my backgound and my experince, feel free not to beleive it.

You're the guy who claims the Rockford family is ready to open the books and that you're here to tell us all about it online.

Who's the liar?



There's no contradiction. There wasn't any mention of the LCN in the Sarno indictment either but it didn't mean the feds weren't aware Sarno was the Outfit's acting boss.

You're looking for excuses to ignore the feds whenever you wish but it's not going to work.



When did they ever say this? Me thinks you pulled that line from the same fantasy world where your supposed mob background comes from.

Rockford has opend the books....and the FBI are the liars
Lets look at their reporting on Rockford since you brought it up

The family was extinct
Then the boss died (how can an extinct family have a boss?)
Then the boss was not really the boss, but an outfit associate (which was laughably wrong)
Then it was extinct again (ummm..ok)
Then it got a new boss( An extinct family got a newe boss?)

This is over the course of less than five years.
I gave other examples as well
Again...the FBI lies
They admit they lie
They went to court fior the right to lie
I have now given no less than 10 examples of when they lied
And you...never question them????

BTW...they made that staement about the Gambinos after the idictments of Marino,Orefice, Modica, Mnzella and the rest.
You must have missed that one

A: No, I didn't.
B: Yes, you did.

A: No, I didn't.
B: Yes, you did.

A: No, I didn't.
B: Yes, you did.



Two dogs with a bone. Which will stop tearing at the other first?

Maybe it's time to agree that you disagree. Or, at least, come up with new arguments for your point of view.

@ivyleague


regardless if the feds mentioned the mafia there still were recent federal indictments

according to you, that's how you judge a family's activities

not for nothing but "the arm" knew some shit about a town that nobody knows exist

so buddy knows somebody because what he knew is not public knowledge

I tried to do that 20 posts ago...I stand by my staements and the examples and evidence I gave...I agree..let the dead horses rest in peace

You can keep repeating this until you're blue in the face. Doesn't make it true and you're not fooling anyone here.



I've given plenty of examples of this before. William D'Elia was still referred to as the boss of the Bufalino family despite there being no formally structured family left. You could say the same about guys like LoScalzo in Tampa, Smaldone in Denver, or the late Peter Milano in LA.



Saladino being an Outfit associate is "laughably wrong" because you say so? And who exactly is the new boss?



The feds haven't recognized a formally structured, viable LCN family in Rockford in decades. This Rockford wet dream of your's (and certain other posters on these forums) comes from one place - the Nick Calabrese affidavit below.


http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/documents/threat%20assessment.pdf

Thank you...and thanks for being vague about exactly what I knew...LOL

I'm not sure what "shit" you're referring to but I have yet to see this guy offer anything more than demonstrably false claims and vague BS. But I can see why you would take to him. Birds of a feather...

The Feds lie...even you cant deny that in your efforts to appeal to autorityb using them......they lie..period
The same guy they called a Rockford Boss, the later called an outfit associate..it cant be both...sorry
Take SDs advice and let it go son

What I know was a name and a situatuation a hand full of people even know exist, and it was discussed privatly.
if you want to disclose who the hell you are and you want to exchange some knowledge in the same way..let me know...otherwise, it doesnt matter what you think or belive.
Keep "never Questioning" an organization who went to court for the right to lie...good luck with that

You and the feds have a whole lot in common the difference is theirs is a mistake well you're lying about yourself that shit is pretty weird but if it makes you feel better about yourself all the power to ya.

The Feds went to court for the right to lie...no mistakes were made
My background is what it is, you may feel free to choose not to beleive it

@ivyleague


it's interesting that u posted that fbi proffer or whatever the fuck it was

because calabrese gave the names of 60 made members of the outfit (i know some are dead)

according to you whatever the fbi says is gospel so maybe there's more than 28 members

the shit "the arm" knew means he either knows somebody or is in law enforcement (no disrespect intended)

One last thing for the record...I couldnt care less what that rat bastard Nick Calabrese said in his testamony..I know what I know about Rockfrd from my personal business (Legit) dealings, years of personal family relationshiops, and a really good fish fry at St Ambrogios, the best gravy in the Midwest at Marias, and Scotch at Tigers and beer and wings at Cappy's

New Orleans Crime Family is alive, The Feds have been lying the whole time!

If only...

"or is in law enforcement"

Bite your tongue...LOL

The 60 names of Outfit made members Calabrese provided to the FBI were obviously past and present. Because, by 2007, the figure the FBI was cited was 28.

This shouldn't be hard for anyone to understand unless they are looking for reasons to dismiss the 28 member figure because they don't like it.

And why do you keep talking up TheArm? The guy hasn't provided anything other than a whole lotta BS that clogs up this board. "I was in the ABC wars...blah blah blah...the feds lie...blah blah blah...Rockford is opening the books...blah blah blah...the feds lie...blah blah blah..."

Ivy I agree with u regarding the Chicago mob , but don't u think there is more than 28 ?? The Feds have prob downplayed the number somewhat , I bet there is at least 10 more . Unless you r in the know , how do u know there wasn't a making ceremony last night ?? U just don't know , most of it is heresay and guess work . People get a semblance of the truth through reading between the lines , however IVY u seem to be a knowledgable guy , I agree with the majority of things u say

Please.....stop regurgitating that Chicago BS. Why on Earth would anybody believe an 1/8th of the shit you say? Who talks about that online? Think about this.....even if what you say is true that means you are a DRY SNITCH! The only mafia in Chicago is the Latins & Blacks. Deal with it.

he probabaly mentioned me becuse he know s who I am and knows I know what I'm talking about...as opposed to you who "never questions the Fed"...even though the Fed admits freely that the lie on a regular basis....not sure why you have such a hard time getting your hands around that

Because the feds supposedly admitted to using misinformation in a few cases at one point, you want to use that as a blanket excuse to dismiss what they say whenever you damn well please. You expect the rest of us to be sceptical of the FBI but take what you say as the gospel truth. Never mind you have claimed some of the most ridiculous, demonstrably false things in the short time you have been on this forum.

Come on Ivy don't you know that Buffalo control all of upstate NY and Canada. Also Robert Ianelli is not only made in Pittsburgh he is the boss. Also Rockford is opening the books and it will soon dwarf the outfit in size lol. Are these the claims you mentioned?

Yeah, it's enough already .

Alyssa Milano controls Kansas City

What's funny is, even if he was who he says he was in Rochester (which I highly doubt), and even if there was still a family in Rockford (which there isn't), how would this guy be privy to them opening up the books? Did they call him up and say, "Hey buddy, we're getting ready to make some new members. Just thought you should know." And all so he can turn right around and tell us all about it online.

I could only wish LOL would rather look at her that PJ Simone LOL.

Maybe Alyssa likes old men. We all know PJ likes younger women lol. BTW Joeydice have you seen this?

http://www.tonyskansascity.com/2013/09/kansas-city-overnight-clip-kill-em-all.html

I assume this is PJ's son. Is he as big of a douche as this makes him seem?

Yeah its PJ's son, Joe Pete. I get along with him but I can see how others might take him wrong. He and his partner Pallazo own several clubs and they run X through them His other partner Marcus Arnone is doing 5 years for X distribution. That being said JP started early, getting busted while in college for running a gambling ring, probably cost him a career in pro baseball, he was a highly recruited ball player. He was investigated a few years ago in a murder. An individual who owed JP about $3500 was at the boats and hit for a big win. He was found murdered in his car the next morning. The police pulled surveillance footage and JP was seen following this guy out of the casino. As for the Web series, its pretty bad and from what I have been told Daddy "asked" him to stop.

The truth is somewhere in between. The Outfit is not dead and anyone claiming so is a fool. The Outfit is not as strong as any of the NY families and anyone claiming so is a fool.

The Outfit has never made many guys like other families. At their peak in the 1950-60's they had maybe 100 made guys, but rivaled the Genovese and Gambinos in power with control of the Midwest and West Coast. They controlled Las Vegas with one made man who wasn't even a capo. They ran the Hollywood extortion scheme with one made man. Counting activity by the number of indictments isn't an exact science. The Philly and NE mob have more indictments because they are full of idiots and informants. If indictments are an indicator of activity, the Colombos are the most powerful mafia family the past two decades. How many indictments were there in Tampa from the 1960-80's?

Other than the East Coast that is infested with wiseguys, the FBI doesn't have the manpower to go after a bunch of bookies and shylocks anymore. Some of you guys can't seem to grasp that this isn't the 1950-1980's anymore. There are many more dangerous organized crime groups and threats to the country than a bunch of bookies. You have the Colombians, Mexicans, Russians, Chinese, and street gangs moving tons of drugs and trafficking in humans. You have Islamic terrorist groups plotting to blow up buildings and planes. You have hackers causing hundreds of billions in damage. Unless it involves drugs, murders, or corruption of unions/government, the feds mostly don't give a shit anymore. They'll pick off the low hanging fruit dealing drugs and flip them. Easy cases with informants like Joe Vollaro doing the work.

There are 25 FBI agents for the 5 families. That's 600 made guys with probably another 3-5000 associates. That's 1 agent per 200 mobsters. I'd be surprised if there's more than one agent working full-time on any of the other families.

i'm not understanding why so many people think an organization full of rats is strong

ny is full of wire wearing captains

the last time i checked having an infestation of rodents was a serious problem

What reason do people have to believe the feds have "downplayed" the number of made Outfit members? Answer: None. Some people just don't like the figure. They personally think (or wish) there are more members. So they try to find reasons to explain away what at least three different FBI officials in Chicago have said.



It's at least 700 total made members in New York.

@ivyleague


so chicago posters can't say that they believe it's between 30-40 made guys in chicago

but utah posters can talk about it being 700 made guys in ny

somebody sounds like a goddamn fan

[quote=cookcounty]@ivyleague


so chicago posters can't say that they believe it's between 30-40 made guys in chicago

but utah posters can talk about it being 700 made guys in ny

somebody sounds like a goddamn fan [/quote]

And somebody else sounds like a fucking moron!

The 700 members in the New York families is well documented. 40 members in Chicago is something certain people have just pulled out of thin air. See the difference?

This is about what the latest official info says. Not about people's worthless opinions.

What a dumb thread, mods should kill it

And the one man troll show continues .


Amen to that.

Don't know much about this topic but i think that peoples thinking on the FBI is a bit off.

If anything wouldn't the FBI say there were more chicago outfit members, just to justify having a squad dedicated to them and getting better funding. They don't get anything out of downplaying anything and saying a groups weak cause then there superiors will just turn around and say well "you don't need the money you did last year". Its like every state and small shithole town claiming they have mexican cartels operating in them just cause they had a few illegals slinging there.

I agree with a lot of this.


Lock this thing

They could be downplaying it to the public to make it seem like the Feds are keeping them in check or the Outfit is in it on it with some feds up in Chicago and want to change the numbers to public to become more unassuming?

NOPE..."they didn't supposedly admitted to using misinformation in a few cases at one point"....they have used it since Appalacian, and in fact have been to court multiple times to be allowed to continue to use it. It is time tested investigatibe technique.
You "never doubt them" (your words) whaich makes your credibility..wait for it...ZERO
Boyscouts should shcould stick with boyscout meetings

Now why would you be so foolish as to lie about something that is so easy for anyone to look back and and realize you are lying?
Never changed any story,,,not once
Never said I never worked with people in Rochester, in fact I said just the opposite.
I have backed up everytghing I have claimed.
I was sentenced on two misdomenors and served two consecutive 6 month sentences, plus two additioanl months for some infractions while inside
That was the truth then, it's the truth now, never changed the story....why would you tell such a silly lie?

OPh, and the other claimes you say I made...two of 3 are complete lies on your part as well...never said either of them, and the 3rd just shows you know zero...but I'm sure Ive appreciates the sloppy kiss on the nut sack

The fact you are talking about having been locked up and acting like you are in the know speaks volumes about you. Deranged fan boy comes to mind. Chicago aint shit. The Vegas era is over. That is when they were a force. Get over it. If the Feds don't know about em, guess what? They are going the way of the dodo bird. EXTINCT! Cartels are the only real mafia in Chicago. Do you know how I came to that conclusion? Indictments!

@ivyleague


the fbi officially claimed that calabrese gave them 60 names of made guys

interestingly you completely overlook that fact

nobody knows those 60 names, whether their dead, alive or in jail

"28 made guys roaming chicago" doesn't mean there is only 28 made guys

I am not part of the Chicago vs NY pissing contest, it's a ridiculous senseless discussion.
Your statement however that the Chicago outfit is extinct, is equally silly.
Read a newspaper now and then, you will find over the weekend there was a conviction which involves a muti million dollar a year outfit operation, more specifically the Elmwood park/Melrose park/Cicero faction

The FBI can say 60 on Monday and 42 on Friday, nothing they publish publicly should be taken as reliable.

most of the information law enforcement releases publicly has a slant to it

Indeed...it's how they get people of interest to expose themselves as suspects.

That still does not make sense you would not serve your time in a federal facility for misdemeanors. either way you are a troll you know nothing so I will ignore you now. Take your fantasy world somewhere else.

How come if you were so tight with Dominic Bretti you did not recognize his pictures when Hairy Knuckles showed you? Again I am not going to name call because that is what a child does which is what you are. I know who my wife and her family are. I have spoken with people from Buffalo and mentioned your posts. You are a joke everywhere and everyone knows it. Please someone kill this thread.

We don't just have that "28 made guys roaming Chicago" comment from Robert Grant in 2007. ---> http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-27-3043193147_x.htm

We also have John Mallul, supervisor of the FBI's organized crime unit in Chicago, citing 30 made members that same year.
---> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-09-30/news/0709300075_1_chicago-outfit-mob-boss-calabrese

And in 2005 we had the feds citing 25 members ---> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-...on-street-gangs

So it appears we have a consistent estimate from the feds, in relation to total members, in the range of 25-30 members.

Give it up, cook, you may not like these figures but you can't explain them away.

Well, you're ignoring the mathematical trend.

In 2005 there were 25 made guys. In 2007 there were 30. That's 5 new made guys in 2 years, or 2.5 per year.

So, if you follow the math, from 2005 to 2014 there were 9 years with 2.5 new made guys per year. That comes to 22.5 made guys.

Add 22.5 to the original number of 25 in 2005 and it comes to 47.5 made guys in 2014.

So there are 47.5 made guys in the Chicago Outfit

Lol that made me chuckle. I can't
Believe he is still arguing this!!

I don't even disagree that the Feds may sometimes put something out
There that isn't 100% accurate.

But the whole argument about the Feds membership estimate on the
Outfit being completely wrong and is def an example
Of their misinformation is comical. Why did they do that for only the outfit because he wants them to be bigger??

We have gone over this a million times.

It is likely that full time active Outfit membership is 25-35 made men. If you include full time associates, it is probably in the 35-50 range.

If you include more "part time" or "somewhat" deactivated Outfit associates that are either made or not made, it is probably 50-75.

47.5 recurring?

If this were tongue in cheek it would be pretty amusing. Unfortunately, I think you're actually being serious.

Those figures are not a "trend." The 25 and 30 figures are obviously close estimates from the FBI. The 28 figure is obviously a more specific head count. So they are all within a very close range. And, as I've said before, if you look at the estimates 15 to 20 years ago and subtract those members who have died since then, it falls right within that 25-30 member range.

Seriously, some of the mathematical gymnastics you guys come up with in order to inflate the numbers to your liking make reason stare.



The FBI estimates that Chicago now only has 25 "made" members and another 75 organized crime associates.

Robert D. Grant, special agent in charge of the FBI's Chicago office, said the city is still plagued by 28 "made guys" and more than 100 associates who do the dirty work but are in the mob's inner circle.

Mallul estimates the Outfit has about 30 "made" members and a little more than 100 associates.

@ivyleague


what about when the fbi said calabrese gave the names of 60 made guys?

that's a fbi FACT that u coincidently overlook

It's been repeated ad nauseum that the names he gave were of made guys both dead and alive.

Where is a link to that "fact"? Never seen that, just what was presented at trial.

I do think 28 is light, and that they've "made" people that are still unknown in recent times. I can't see it being more than 50 though, unless the feds are WAY off.

But where is this documented? Who gave them the names, the son or brother?

@erickumerow


somebody posted a link on here to nick calabrese's "debriefing or proffer or something"

it laid out everything that he told the feds

he told them it was 60 made guys

i don't see it being more than 50 made members either

Oh you're still here. I thought you would've been sick of trolling by now

Lies, his debriefing sessions have never been published or let out in full for that matter. The sun-times and Tribune both had little pieces but there's been nothing on what he said word for word to the feds. The links to his testimony in FS has been posted but his sessions with the feds or the exact names of the 60 guys has never been posted. Cook its good to see you think less than 50.

Ok, can the moderators close this thread? I do think this thread has run it's course and it is turning into a New York vs Chicago now.

@sgwhatever


somebody posted a link on here to whatever he told the feds

i don't know what thread the link is posted in but it's on here

We've been through this several times now. Yes, when he flipped, Calabrese identified the names of some 60 made members of the Outfit. But common sense (which you lack) tells you that, if we have Chicago FBI officials citing half that at most a few years later, those 60 names were obviously past and present. You want to pretend they are all present, and throw the more recent FBI statements out the window, because you want to believe the Outfit still has 60 made guys today. You're delusional and don't go on anything but wishful thinking.

They got half a guy in a wheelchair, dangerous little man he is. Weed eater motor and all hooked up to it for quick getaways.

/me chuckles.


(Dear SC god, close this fucking thread now please )