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Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation?

Posted By: LaLouisiane

Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 01:35 PM

Hey guys, with the recent busts going on in NY and Italy, it got me to thinking:

Has Italian Law Enforcement ever tried to infiltrate any of the mafia groups the way the FBI did with Joe Pistone AKA Donnie Bracso or Jack Garcia?

Would it be too difficult/dangerous given these groups do tend to be more secretive and violent? Lack of funds? Lack of willingness of agents to go undercover? Thanks for your responses in advance!
Posted By: slumpy

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 04:56 PM

My best guess (emphasis on guess) is that infiltration has been tried infrequently and probably ruled too risky. Italy's mafia related corruption is much more systemic than America's. Shit, italy has prime ministers under investigation for rubbing elbows with the mafia.

I'm not sure that infiltration is really the primary use for undercover police work though, more often it's used specifically to catch people in the act of committing a crime without entrapping them.

If you want to look into it deeper, I'd suggest reading up on Guardia di Finanza, which I BELIEVE is the police agency that typically deals with the Mafia. You might find the answer to what you're looking for there.

You could also try reading up the Carabinieri because I *think* they were responsible for a lot of the mafia dealings back before the Giovanni Falcone hit. They might have attempted some infiltration work, but again, I can't say with any certainty.

I did a quick google search for "itaian police undercover" but didn't come up with anything definitive. to me, that says that there probably haven't been many meaningful infiltrations, such as with the Pistone operation.

As a university alumn I still have access to all kinds of scholarly journals, I'll do some further research when I get home from the office. Hopefully I can find something more, because now I'm curious.
Posted By: LaLouisiane

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 05:13 PM

Where did you graduate from man?
Posted By: slumpy

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 05:32 PM

University of Winnipeg, I have a general arts BA with a major in history and a minor in sociology/anthropology.
Posted By: LaLouisiane

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 05:54 PM

Ohh cool man Louisiana State University here Poli Sci and International Relations
Posted By: slumpy

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 05:59 PM

Kind of in the same realm of study. I always wanted to get into poli-sci but my school had such limited space and those classes tended to fill up first day of registration.
Posted By: LaLouisiane

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 08:08 PM

I haven't been able to find any cases. I thought some of the posters like Carmela or Strax would have better insight on if they ever tried an undercover.

Anyways I was googling myself to end ends of internet and came across this. Pretty interesting:

https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/defa...ssessment_0.pdf
Posted By: LaLouisiane

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 08:09 PM

This also:

https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/202749/1/Mafia+and+OC+in+Italy_Paoli_WEP_2007.pdf
Posted By: Ted

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 10:26 PM

Originally Posted By: slumpy
University of Winnipeg, I have a general arts BA with a major in history and a minor in sociology/anthropology.

I use to live in Winnipeg before moving to the USA.
Posted By: carmela

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/12/14 10:44 PM

Originally Posted By: slumpy
My best guess (emphasis on guess) is that infiltration has been tried infrequently and probably ruled too risky. Italy's mafia related corruption is much more systemic than America's. Shit, italy has prime ministers under investigation for rubbing elbows with the mafia.

I'm not sure that infiltration is really the primary use for undercover police work though, more often it's used specifically to catch people in the act of committing a crime without entrapping them.

If you want to look into it deeper, I'd suggest reading up on Guardia di Finanza, which I BELIEVE is the police agency that typically deals with the Mafia. You might find the answer to what you're looking for there.

You could also try reading up the Carabinieri because I *think* they were responsible for a lot of the mafia dealings back before the Giovanni Falcone hit. They might have attempted some infiltration work, but again, I can't say with any certainty.

I did a quick google search for "itaian police undercover" but didn't come up with anything definitive. to me, that says that there probably haven't been many meaningful infiltrations, such as with the Pistone operation.

As a university alumn I still have access to all kinds of scholarly journals, I'll do some further research when I get home from the office. Hopefully I can find something more, because now I'm curious.


Guardia di Finanza is dealing with anything that has to do with big money, finances (finanza)

Direzione Nazionale Antimafia is where any undercover agents would come from. They are anti-mafia on a national level.

A lot of mafia blitzes are performed by Squadra Mobile, with special units being brought in for high profile arrests, usually for fugitives, breaking into their hideouts, etc.
Posted By: StLguy

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/13/14 01:24 AM

"Guardia di Finanza is dealing with anything that has to do with big money, finances (finanza)

Direzione Nazionale Antimafia is where any undercover agents would come from. They are anti-mafia on a national level.

A lot of mafia blitzes are performed by Squadra Mobile, with special units being brought in for high profile arrests, usually for fugitives, breaking into their hideouts, etc."

I know that in the NYPD they have special units for organized crime in the city and the state of NY does too. Do you know if any Italian cities or states have their own mafia investigation agencies or are they generally viewed as being in the pocket of local organized crime?
Posted By: slumpy

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? - 02/13/14 04:48 PM

Thanks for clearing that up Carmela. smile


edit: p.s. did some further research in the journal catalogues, pretty much came up with nothing. You would think there would be a lot more info since Canada/US/Italian law enforcement typically share information and techniques on the regular.
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