Current State of the Patriarcas

What’s up fellas? So I was talking to the aunt of my fiend. She is an attorney in Boston who has represented such OC figures as Peter Limone, Carmen Dinunzio, JR Russo (back in the day), and Vinny Ferrara. I was talking to her about the current state of the Patriarca’s and this is what she said.

She said that Limone never was the boss. She thinks that because of the massive respect he has, and the fact that all the old guys make a point to say hello to him, that the Feds assumed he was boss. She said although he got indicted for gambling he really is hands off now. She went on to say that after Baby Shacks stepped down in Providence that the Cheeseman is the boss of what is left. I asked her how the old guys like Vinny Ferrara and Spucky Spagnolo fit in. She said that before Baby Shacks went away they sent some money his way from the gambling and shylocking they have going on, but that stopped after he stepped down. She said that the old timers are basically doing their own thing while the younger guys work for Cheese.

She said that there are a few guys that could put things back together if they wanted to such as Matty Gugs, Vinny, Spucky, or Pryce, but at this point, none of them want to be in the drivers seat.

This is just speculation on my part and I hope to hear from some of the knowledgeable New England Guys. If I am completely off base, then let me know.

Wow whoever your lawyer friend is, she knows what shes talking about cause this is pretty much hitting the nail on the head.

This is what I have:


Patriarca Crime Family
Boss: Peter "Chief Crazy Horse" Limone
Acting Boss: Anthony L. DiNunzio
Underboss: Carmen S. "the Cheese Man" DiNunzio
Consigliere: Unknown

pretty accurate except hat limone is the head head man.... the old school guys have their own tight crew....some of the younger guys get acknowledged but rely on their superior for directions oppose overall family like communication...and I think I have a idea who that lawyer lady may be but joe russo did go pro se and vinny was represented by either richard egbert or marty weignberg i forget which one ....old man pete was represented by balliro's daughter juliana in the last case and by richard egbert in his original case and cheese lawyer is cardinale so something is not adding up at all or she is full of shit... the only lady oc lawyers i know are julliana and rosemary shapiro thats it the rest of oc lawyers are cuhna of r.i. cardinale, marty, bobby sheketoff and sometimes leppo and joe balliro...and the fact that she didnt mention biago who is really the power man with legitimacy and alot of other things concerns me with her knowledge

Thanks for the Boston info as usual, Joe. Props to the O.P. as well.

This is information that Joe Russo has posted numerous times except the part about Limone. And Joe alot of those lawyers have others on their teams that help with cases, so it could be he got this information from a woman aide. Otherwise he doesnt wanna say where he heard that. Both me and Russo have talked about this subject and alot of forum members downplay some of our knowledge when I can confirm most of what he posts. Hey Russo maybe Biago wasnt mentioned cause his name isnt supposed to be spoken of, think Vincent Gigante when it comes to that issue.

I think it'll be interesting when Matty Guglielmetti gets out along with the Cheese and his brother Anthony, they all get about the same time 2015/2016.

They will all be in the prime earnings years...

Hey guys. I was vague about my friend’s aunt on purpose but because of one of the comments I received I feel I have to expand. My friend’s aunt is a lawyer but she was not the lead attorney for any of the aforementioned guys. She is an expert on RICO cases and she is often called in as a consultant. Anyone who knows anything about organized crime trials, in particular RICO cases is that there is not just one lawyer working on your case. You have one and sometimes two lead attorneys who call in expert witnesses and consultants who are often lawyers themselves. She has worked on OC cases from Providence to NYC so as far as I am concerned her credentials are not in question. If anyone really doubts me I can PM you with proof of who she is, I just am not going to out her on a public forum.

I honestly believe her that there is no true united Patriarca Family. The old guys are too smart to get involved with Cheese and his BS. The feds are just lying in wait with Rossetti and Deluca ready to make a case against the Dinunzio Family, Billy Angelesco, Mike Prochilo, Darrin Bufalino, and basically anyone who get nostalgic and thinks it’s the 1980s still. I mean if you were Matty, Vinny, or one of the other old heads, would you bet you future that Cheese will not get indicted again when he gets out. I will not say there is no way they could recover, I just do not think it would make sense to operate like they used to.

Its funny, the North End is a world in its own. If you hang around there it is easy to see why people think the Patriarca’s are alive and well as they have ever been. I am not trying to talk ill of the North End, I have respect for those guys. I just do not think they are dumb enough to get caught doing their old tricks. Cheese will continue to be a fat idiot along with his junkie crews. As for Limone, I honestly do not know his rank so I will, leave that one alone.

Great stuff. I'm curious about what they do with Rossetti. Sounds like he knows about a lot of the bodies that dropped in the 80's/90's,either he did or he knows who did. Surprised they haven't trotted that info out there yet. Then again, he's probably not the most believable witness (see the Philly trial for what juries can think about criminal informants on the stand) I think the war was before the Cheeseman was involved.

Well stated Gingello...I'm sure somebody will attack you in some way, shape or form. Angelesco has an affinity for the needle, it's a matter of time before he ends up dead or cooperating over a dime bag worth of heroin. The old guys like Patriarca and company would have put him out of his misery a while ago...gotta love the new generation of mobsters today.

I don't see the well respected old timers taking orders from a putz like DiNunzio. Somebody should just whack those two fat fucks and get it over with already.

Hey guys I wanted to point out one thing. I agree about Biagio being a man of respect, but to be honest I did not want to mention his name. I think the Chin Gigante reference applies well here. I have to agree with JCB. If it were the 1980s-early 1990s I think the North End would have iced them both.

One more note I know the killings Rossetti was involved in were before Cheese was really active in the administration, but that does not mean some of those could not be included in a RICO Indictment. Not to mention the DeVito and Squillante murders, from what I have heard, have guys waiting for the Feds to drop an indictment for them. The Feds won the Vernace trial in NYC and that murder was 30 years old, and he was acquitted in the state trial just like Angelesco was. Sure people's memories are less hazy on the DeVito and Squillante hits. I am sure by the time Cheese gets out Angelesco and those other morons will have pissed off a few more people into turning rat. Plus its not like its a secret that he did the work on those two hits.

It would take Angelesco no longer than 36 hours before his addiction kicked in and they'll press him until he breaks...and it's a shame because he is a very capable guy. They're digging up old murders from 30+ years ago all over the country, it's a free pass to a new life in the sunshine for these guys who are 55-60 years old, not a bad retirement package without the bullshit scams on the street, the lying, deceiving, chasing the next nickel by selling H on a street corner...for some guys it's a way out of a life that has two outcomes...stay tuned until then. Peter Limine should take his millions, take care of a few of his closest guys and run like Gump...hope he hasn't been in on any hits since his release. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been told and other posters on this forum have said that Angelesco is the Christopher Moltisanti of the Boston underworld (not in those words, but it's been stated by a few that they have heard the same thing, or know this to be true.

All I am going to say is me personally dont think Billy would rat I mean he had plenty of chances and it wasnt like he was facing a dime he was facing the elbow(life). And yea the north end is a world of its own so is federal hill. with that being said just knw there is alot going on and the fat cheese can be influential but he is NOT from a long shot the most respected or feared guy. I peronally thinks by rank he can be underboss but in reality he gets overseen all the time by the real figure heads and thats a fact

If I recall correctly, Angelesco was in jail when Squillante was hit but his right hand man wasn't. Squillante was a witness to the Santasky murder.

Billy wouldnt rat, he has had to kick the dope cold turkey in prison and he stood up and did his time. Hes had to kick dope many times so he knows how that ballgame goes. And if you guys are wondering, Billy is sober as of now, so maybe he will stay that way, but only he can be the one who controls that issue. Hes very capable, if it wasnt for the drugs, who knows where his place would be. Theres alot of guys Billys age and younger that are still working the life hard. A couple of the old timers love Billy cause hes old school in the way he goes about business, it may be risky, but hes blue collar and toughness and balls were the old way for alot of gangsters. Its up in the air in my eyes on whats gonna happen when Cheese gets out, could be,problems, could be smooth. Just gotta wait and see what happens

There was rumor not to long ago that Biagio D was still the man conducting the ceremonies when they needed to be done and while mostly retired was still consulted on issue that may arise with the NY families.

Any truth...?

I've heard the same things about Billy...BUT...addiction is a crazy, powerful disease and to continually kick dope cold turkey is IMO a liability. Glad to hear he is sober, as being sober will certainly provide a clear head for important decisions. I'm from the old school though, and a lot of old timers had a simple rule: Get hooked on dope, you die. It certainly will be very interesting to see what happens over the next 5 years. Especially if DeLuca and Rossetti give up any murders from years past. From what I have been told, DeLuca has provided "a lot more information" than what people believe that he provided which was a chicken shit strip club extortion scheme. They didn't give him a free pass and relocate him for charges that amounted to bullshit...the Feds are doing their due diligence and I'm sure they are going to press Rossetti hard. I also don't see some of the stand up guys in Boston/Providence taking orders from the two fat brothers...stay tuned.

Here are some old FBI files from the 1960's regarding the major players in New England:


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=128000&relPageId=5

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=94918&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=141679&relPageId=4

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=94921&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95164&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95269&relPageId=2 (conversation between Ray Sr. and Nick Bianco)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=112979&relPageId=1 (233 page report on OC on all families)

This is a great find it shows the inner workings of a bygone era. I am totally impressed by the respect shown for the members and bosses. There isn't any name calling or backstabbing. I was impressed with Patriarca making Angiulo apologise for calling another member a name. These days are long gone.

Once Anthony DiNunzio was indicted, he was no longer in a position to be acting boss. And it came out some time ago that Carmen DiNunzio's position had changed from underboss to consigliere.

Hey Joe thanks for your input. I see I was off base on some things and right on others. I agree Cheese is not even close to being the most respected guy in the North End. Personally, I agree that Angelesco would not rat but I do think him and Cheese will get ratted on and end up back inside. I know Cheese is inside now so I meant he will get sent back once he gets out. Also I did not mean to imply Billy pulled the trigger in the Squillante hit but he definitely knows all the details, and he can still be indicted for conspiracy. I respect your information and I meant no disrespect.

JCB I agree 100% that the Feds are not through using Rossetti and Deluca. They got both those guys right where they want them and they are going to keep squeezing them. They know a whole lot that could hurt everyone from Boston to Providence.

I just hope we can keep this New England thread from degenerating into a pissing contest between the Italians and the Irish lol.

Hey Ivy do you recall who first mentioned that Peter Limone was the boss? I do not think the Feds ever officially said he was. Was it the Mass State Police? My point is that the only people who claimed he was Boss was the news people in Providence.

jcb the files are pretty interesting. its says rite there patriarca had nicky bianco made in sept 10 1963 probably ats patys rest. in nyc. ive read only 1 or 2 other guys made in the 1960tys. Gambino made nino gaggi probably cause he was big pauls right hand man that came from I think his nephew dominck book murder machine and Christy tick from those files to. but for patriarca to get bianco made and the just place him in the hierarchy of the profaci family says something. I really don't get if he was on the commission or reported to them kinda like samm the plumber. if he was told too stay away from bonanno and the whole family he was to power hungry. roseeti done the fbi fed him to the wolves and burriud him in the mass doc. he a usless witness and black eye. DeLuca rode off to the sunset it was reported baby shacky wanted limone to take over once he came home. antohny d was caught on the nicky skins tape saying he was acting boss so that only means limone is boss maybe in name only but hes boss till he says so. wanna say I read roseeti was acting consig for anythony rite up till the herion bust. the capo from providence was caught by DeLuca saying how stupid it was for anthoyn to be splitting the club money. they made a few guys in the last few yrs. bufalino in 2008 so probably other guys. Anthony son whose like 25 probably in the last 2 or 3 yrs. there not lacking for recruits its just weird you never heard baby shacks making r.i. guy and the state is half Italian. st laurents kid never got it he was around forever. chippy plead guilty in the plea it said he was made in 1996 so baby shacks probably made his guys when he took over. bet that old guy makes it home he was in good shape, his nephew is a convicted killer and union official for luina, don't think hes made either.

jcb did you read the part about the 2 brothers last napilantano or how ever its spelled they ran the gambling up in maine and were made guys for patriarca. kinda cool is there anything else on them. I remember you were searching about mmaine. they must have had dealings with controni/rizzuto crew. also cool how crlo m was a Genovese guy but kinda reported to ray. there was a lot of made guys in Worcester back then I think theres only like 2 today. back the there was Genovese and patriarca guys.

Yes, it was the Massachusetts State Police. At least that's what the I-Team reported. But it wasn't clear if they meant Limone had really succeeded Manocchio as the official boss or was just acting boss at the time. Often the media just uses the term "boss" generically and doesn't differentiate.

While it's possible Limone was in either position for a time, he wasn't indicted as such in his gambling case. And even if he was, Anthony DiNunzio later becoming acting boss shows Limone wasn't running things directly by that point. In fact, Rhode Island state police superintendent Col. Steven O'Donnell said DiNunzio had taken over the family from Limone.

Thanks Ivy. I asked this because as I mentioned earlier in the thread that my friend's aunt who is an attorney that has worked on many OC cases, said that from what she had heard, Limone was never the boss.

I still think she may have been right.

So both the Rhode Island & Massachusetts State Police said/thought Limone was boss but, your aunt thinks that he never was. That's interesting because if she was representing some of those guys one would think she might be privy to some info.

Is Vinny the animal Ferrara on parole or probation for the rest of his life? For some reason I keep thinking that but don't remember where I read that

No Vinnys not on parole or probation. He's free as a bird. I tend to agree with you Gingello about Limone, but he had something to do with descision making cause even back during the Devito murder him and Cheese were seen alot together. And Micheal Barry, Anthony's brother approached Limone about taking Anthony's side over a beef between him and Billy. The Barry's wanted Limone to support them cause the murder wasn't sanctioned. And they were trying to pin Muckas murder on Billy. Limone told them to go fuck themselves and he was supporting Billy. The old time Boston guys are the truth. Kinda funny how they were never even mentioned in the strip club case and that got Louie and sloppy Anthony and other big names, but not one Boston old timer got in trouble or even mentioned. Your friends aunt said they were sending money to Baby Shacks and it stopped when Shacks stepped down. So right there tells ya their strength. They are too smart to get caught up in what the Cheese or the rest of the fellas do. They are more powerful than any one man in Providence as of now and,like Russo said there is more than meets the eye when it comes to the North End and these guys.

Hey Ville I really appreciate your feedback. Its great to talk to you Boston guys, I spent some time in Beantown myself. I wonder if any of the old timers from the North End will ever actually catch another case. I think at this point they are too crafty, and Boston has much larger problems than the goodfellas from the North End. I will concede that Limone is a well respected guy and his word carries a lot of weight, I just think there are guys who carry more weight than him such as some of the guys we already mentioned.

A side note my friend's aunt hates the Cheeseman. Her and her colleagues worked really hard to get him released due to his gross obesity and then he goes and gets indicted. She thinks him and his brother are swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool. She said he always pays in cash up front so she will not turn him down, but he is still a fat stupid asshole.

LOL...how could anyone actually respect those two fat fucks, they don't even respect themselves? Gluttony is their deadly sin.

Thanks to Pogo the Clown


1. Boss: Vacant as of 2012
-Acting Boss: ?????
2. UnderBoss: Carmen "Fat Carmen/The Cheese Man" DiNunzio/56/Bos (IP/1/27/2015)
3. Consiglieri: ?????


Capos:
1. Joseph “Joe the Bishop” Achille Sr/77/Prov
2. Anthony DiNunzio/54/Bos (IP/12/21/2017)
3. Edward "Eddie" Lato/66/Prov (IP/7/25/2019)


Soldiers:

Providence:
Vito “The Ox” DeLuca/69
William "Billy Blackjack" Delsanto/70
Pasquel “Patsy” Galea/70
Rocco "Rocky" Folco/66 (UI)
Raymond “Junior” Patriarca/68
Joseph Ruggiero/64


Boston:
William Angelesco/42/Bos
John Cincotti/74
Robert “Bobby” Carrozza/73
Biagio “Benny” DiGiacomo/68
Vincent “The Animal” Ferrara/64 (UI)
Richard “Richie the Pig” Gambale/71
Vincent “Dee Dee” Gioacchini/61
Frank Imbruglia/82
Ralph “Ralphie Chong” Lamattina/91
Peter Limone/79 (UI)
Dennis “Champagne” LePore/67
James “Jimmy” Martorano/72
Pryce Quintina/74
John “Jackie” Salemme/70
Frederick “Freddie the Neighbor” Simone/63
Anthony "Spucky" Spagnolo/70
Carmen Tortora/66


Connecticut:
Anthony “Tony the Beaver” Ascenzia Jr/54
Salvatore “Butch” D'Aquila/73
Americo “The Cigar” Petrillo/79


Imprisoned Members:
Darin Bufalino/52/Bos (IP)
Vincent Federico/53/Bos (IP/L)
Matthew "Matty Gugs" Guglielmetti Jr/63/Prov (IP/3/31/2016)
Louis “Luigi/Baby Shanks” Manocchio/86/Prov (IP/11/4/2015)
Frank “BoBo” Marrapese/70/Prov (IP)
Joseph “Junior” Pingaro/58/Bos (IP/3/25/2016)
Michael “Mike” Prochillo/43/Bos (UI/IP)
Stephen Rossetti/55/Bos (IP/4/4/2044)
Alfred "Chippy" Scivola/72/Prov (IP/1/24/2015)
Anthony "The Saint" St. Laurent/72/Prov (IP)


Possible Made Members:
Gregory “Greg/Fat Boy” Costa/44/Bos
Joseph “Joe Black” Lamattina/83/Bos
Lee Rizzo/Bos


Members Who Have Died Since 1998:
Donato “Danny” Angiulo (2009)
Francisco “Frank the Cat” Angiulo
Gennaro “Jerry” Anguilo (2009)
Michele “Mike” Anguilo
Rocco Argenti (2002)
Philip "Sonny'' Baiona (2007)
Frederick “Fred” Champa (2007)
Dominic Isabella
Richard “Richie” Floramo (2009)
Cono “Connie” Frizzi Sr. (2000)
Cono “Connie” Frizzi Jr. (2011)
Charles "Q-Ball" Quintina
Alexander “Sonny Boy" Rizzo (2005)
Anthony Rizzo (2004)
Santo Rizzo (1998)
Edward “Mulligan” Romano (1999)
Rudolph “Rudy Earl” Sciarra (2012)


Members Who Have Flipped:
John “Sonny” Castagna/Soldier
Antonio “Nino” Cucinotta/Soldier
Robert "Bobby Cigar" DeLuca/Capo
Angelo "Sonny" Mercurio/Soldier
Gaetano Milano/Soldier
Joseph Napolitano/Soldier (Killed)
Mark Rossetti/Capo/Acting Consiglieri
Frank "Cadillac Frank" Salemme/Boss

Jeezus do they have anybody under 60?!?

That doesn't change, that families gone Feds or no Feds.

Is everyone old as dirt.

boston is an off-brand mafia just like it always has been

boston is probably more pitiful than new jersey

While I agree that since the death of Raymond Patriarca Sr. things have changed dramatically in New England, when he was in charge, they had a solid criminal organization that wielded influence in several states. Providence, RI was the longtime power base for New England and the Boston faction always seemed to have turmoil. Since the death of Ray Sr., the family had struggled until Luigi "Baby Shacks" Manocchio took over and brought them back to respectability. Since the last bust that sent quite a few key players to prison, things are a little murky to say the least. There are some very capable old timers (who probably don't want the job/heat) and the younger generation...well, let's just say that the younger generation of Mafioso all around the country have no respect for the traditions and rules that kept LCN going for so long.

Even in their "heyday", New England was considered a 2nd tier Mafia Family behind the 5 in NY, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia and Kansas City. However, you can't discount the fact that Ray Sr. had a seat on the commission as he was well liked by the NY bosses. New England, specifically Boston, is unique in the sense that the city was a haven for Irish immigrants and Irish gangs/crews always carried a lot of weight in Boston, probably more so than any other city with a traditional LCN family.

To say that Boston is more pitiful than New Jersey is overstating your case quite a bit. Patriarca ruled New England with an iron fist and you had to get permission to operate in his territory which covered Massachusetts, parts of Connecticut, Rhode Island, Maine and parts of New Hampshire. In New Jersey, they never even had total control of their own state. All 5 NY families had a piece of NJ, Philly had crews operating in NJ and a few old timers from the now defunct Bufalino Crime Family had some operations going on in New Jersey. If anything, New Jersey danced to the tune of the Gambino/Genovese Families. As Carmine Lupertazzi from the Sopranos used to say, "Jersey was nothing more than a glorified crew." Trying to compare NJ to New England is apples and oranges.

"She thinks him and his brother are swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool. "

The sound more like floaters than swimmers.

Does anyone know if (at least back in the day) the mob had rules about physical condition? I know that they've always had some fatties, but has anyone ever been too fat? I would think that if you were so fat that you weren't intimidating, then it would be hard to collect debts etc. Has anyone ever been whacked for being too fat?

That list is BS, do you really think Manocchio was at the helm for 12 years and made nobody. Plus, all the older guys listed here have underlings they would like to bring along since they are out there doing the dirty.

The young guys haven't been identified yet, trust me.

Sure, Baby Shacks made "some guys" in both Boston and Providence. That list is inaccurate. JoeRusso and Ville would be able to identify some of the younger guys made from both factions of the family. For the first time in a long time, Boston seems to be in better shape than Providence.

I am still certain that DeLuca and Rossetti aren't finished. A friend of mine who used to work for the U.S. Attorney's office in RI and now in private practice in Boston said that the strip club scheme that DeLuca gave up was just the beginning and a current investigation of "RICO" charges for some other members are in the near future. Rossetti isn't finished in my opinion either.

And I agree that the mafia should have more strict regulations regarding diabetic infested, gluttony and their membership.

Keep in mind that while not 100% correct, the FBI typically has their finger on the pulse through informants like DeLuca and Rosseti among others who are cooperating. Does anybody think the Saint would give info to the Feds?

"Keep in mind that while not 100% correct, the FBI typically has their finger on the pulse through informants like DeLuca and Rosseti among others who are cooperating"

I'm surprised more of the mafia hasn't become more compartmentalized. It seems like that would be a good way to reduce damage from rats. Is Boston still big enough to break off into smaller groups?

I highly doubt it. He's a tough old bastard. He's been in really bad health for years now, doubt he has long left.

no , st. Laurent could have got out of jail yrs ago and his kid wouldn't have got slammed for 6 and half yrs. he's been around for ever and knows how to play the look im in a wheel cahir dying. if he even told a little they would have left his wife out of the last indictment. shit he probably only got 1 or 2 yrs left he up fort devens scheming with all those other aarp gangsters. hes been in jail since 06 07 shit the big time for old guys. he was rite about DeLuca and ll the boston guys that sided with DeLuca probably don't feel to good. theres that video at mark roseeti moms funeral all the guys at some restaurant.

theres like 2 other r.i. guys not on the list one got arrested for domestic like 2 yrs ago forgot his name. all these old guys got meathead grandchildren. I think if Anthony d made his kid about 3 yrs ago who else kids got made when he got the ok to make his kid. I read somewhere DeLuca turn down the underboss postion he was probably cooperating at the time and they told him not to. again rosette done hes in jail he aint helping the feds they threw him to the wolves, fucked him. and swept him under the rug. he try to kill a state trooper in the 1980tys and some boston congress guy been trying to get answers why they would make him a c.i. after the whitey shit. they wont answer anything. he get out in 10yrs hard state time. he has multiple murders, during the 90tys.

DeLuca is still out there and I'm positive there are some others who are feeding info to the FBI. The next 5 years are going to be interesting to say the least.

Is DeLuca's brother I think Vito still active or accepted in that family?

Sorry but that list is beyond outdated. No Louis Dinunzio or Alby Folcarelli for starters.

"Even in their "heyday", New England was considered a 2nd tier Mafia Family behind the 5 in NY, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia and Kansas City. However, you can't discount the fact that Ray Sr. had a seat on the commission as he was well liked by the NY bosses. New England, specifically Boston, is unique in the sense that the city was a haven for Irish immigrants and Irish gangs/crews always carried a lot of weight in Boston, probably more so than any other city with a traditional LCN family. "

What other cities had strong lcn competition/allies from other ethnic groups (pre-1990 or so)?
Here's what I can think of:

New York City - Irish, jews, smaller groups (Russians, Albanians, etc)

Boston - irish

Chicago - Irish

Cleveland - irish, jews

Detroit - jews

St. Louis - irish, 'syrians'

I assume there were irish and jewish gangs in Philadelphia, but were they as strong as New York? How about Kansas City?

Also, are black gangs really considered as possible rivals for LCN? I know that they have been all over the US in varying levels of size and complexity and they have had contact with LCN (especially with respect to policy and drugs), but I've always thought of black OC as being something largely "self-contained" within the black community. Same for old time Chinese OC (gambling dens, etc.)

IF THERE WAS STILL A FAMILY GUYS WOULD GET CLIPPED FOR NOT SENDING CASH. LOUIE HAD A SMALL CREW NEAR HIM DIDNT SHAKE ALOT OF HANDS IF YOU CATCH MY DRIFT. THERE IS NO MORE GETTING MADE OVER HERE NOBODY IN RHODE ISLAND DID NOT SINCE JUNIOR ITS JUST BEEN A MEMORY ITS OVER AND THESE GUYS THAT ARE TRYING TO HANG ON ARE A JOKE AND A BUNCH OF RETARDS. SINCERELY, MANTON AVENUE

VITO IS NOT RELATED TO BOBBY DELUCA. HES OLD NOW STILL AROUND. ALBI FOLCARELLI NOT MADE BUT TOUGH KID. HE GOT JAMMED UP FROM BOBBY THAT SCUM BAG

For one your wrong about envelopes. Your wrong about no one since Junior and yea some of the younger fellas aren't the smartest, but there's plenty that know what they're doing my friend. Louie played it very safe, but he gave them a reach and what's going on up here in Boston with the old timers and younger guys, you obviously don't have a clue. Not bashing ya buddy, but your definitely wrong.

I wasn't saying that other cities didn't have any other activity, but no city in America had the strength of the Irish like Boston. PERIOD. Irish crews are still going strong in different areas of the cities. Boston is probably the only city where some of the old Irish gangs were as dominant as LCN, and separate.

the irish being so strong is the reason the patriarca's are offbrand

I never implied that the Irish gangs in and around Boston were "stronger," but they certainly had their territories and I believe that Patriarca was diplomatic about it and let them get their piece of the pie as well...more so than any other Boss in any other city would have. LCN as an organization was far more powerful, wide reaching and membership was stronger nationwide, but Boston as a city truly isn't that big, as the surrounding suburbs make up greater Boston. Plus, Patriarca spent most of his time in Providence and at one time, it had more Italians "per capita" than any other city. Patriarca also let Jerry Angiulo run the Boston faction and as long as he was getting his weekly cut, he never barked. IMO, every city's organized crime groups should work in harmony, there is more than enough to go around. The Italians and Jews have worked together since the beginning, I don't see why the Russians, Albanians, Irish and Chinese can't all work with each other.

Hello Everybody Im new to the board but not to the street.
While what you say may (or may not)be true there is still L.C.N. in Providence .
I used to go vist my pal Sal who is cousins with Frank (not bobo ,call him that to his face and see what happens)at Max. in the A.C.I. and I can assure you that there are still some players out there.

The guy on this board who has an aunt in Boston or whatever is very close to the mark ,but the truth is some of these wiseguys are not even on the radar screen if you get my drift.
Not tryin to start a riff here with anyone just my 2 cents worth from what I know here locally.
Ciao, FedoraFrank

I'm a big fan of Providence, do my grocery shopping once a month at Constantino's and grab a pie from Sicilia's (It still aggravates me that Casserta's doesn't have sausage and meatball pizzas). I agree that there may be a few players, but to say they are "completely" under the radar is hard to believe, especially with Bobby DeLuca working with the FBI. If there was anybody on the verge of being made or viewed as important up and comers, he would have divulged that info to the Feds...Now, maybe the Feds know and haven't made it public, but with DeLuca and others who are cooperating, the FBI has had its finger on the pulse for some time regarding who's who in organized crime. They have been handing indictments down the last 10 years and have locked up some of the most important players in Rhode Island and Boston. I'm sure most of those guys had younger associates, but DeLuca would have given them up right away. Time will tell what the future holds for LCN in New England, but at this moment in 2014, it's the weakest they have ever been.

Hey JBC.how you doin? Nice to meet ya.

Your right about DeLuca, but not for nuttin it ain't over till the fat lady sings and she and them ain't done yet.

However they are no way as strong as they used to be .
If you go to Gates of Heaven Cemetery in East Providence and if you know where Raymonds vault is , you would be surprized to see cigar bands stuck on the wrought iron fence of his vault,I've seen em there more than once now what does that mean, Im sure your smart enough to know what I'm sayin here, capire?

On another note Venda's Ravioli is simply the best and I know David and Dianne personally as we go to the same church and there Sopressata's and the different kinds they carry are awesome .
I agree with you about Casserta's but their winpy skimpy are good and you know what they say " if your not eatin Cassertas ,your not eatin pizza'.
Speakin of Spruce St. have you ever noticed the "Tuscuanny Club " at the beginning of the street with the big " Members Only" sign in the window ?
At the other end of the street right across from Cassertas there used to be a wiseguys bar over there it's closed now but on my fathers soul way back in the late 70's early 80's one day I was going to get a pie at Cassertas and who was standing right there on the corner, none other than the teflon don Mr. Gotti himself and I walked right past him and he gave me a look ,I almost S**t my pants so ,I figured what the f#@k ,I said to him "excuse me sir ,but you look an awefull lot like John Gotti, are you John Gotti " and he replied "yea what about it " I said "oh nothing sir its an honor to meet you and I shook his hand and he siad to me ,"your alright kid" and then he looked at the other guy that was standing with him and smiles and I got the f#@k outta there. I figured he must have been there on business or what ever ,honest in God that is a true story !

Again nice to meet you , Fedora Frank

THE PLACE YOUR DESCRIBING WAS THE ACORN SOCIAL CLUB BUT EVERYONE WHO WENT THERE CALLED IT BOBO'S. I'M SUPRISED YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT SINCE YOU GO VISIT HIM. MAYBE U CALL IT FRANKS?

Manton - Learn how to use the caps key!! You've been asked before not to post in all capital letters.

Honestly I just could not remembr the name of the place and you are correct the acorn tap and yes it was "kitty corner" from the pizza palor.
BTW I never said I visted Frank I used to go vist his cousin Sal , but I have spoken to him more than once when the three of us were in the visiting room up at "Castle Dracula " at the ACI

Ciao, Fedora Frank

Why do you type in all Caps?

Here are a few recent articles on New England LCN:

http://wpri.com/2014/02/05/feb14-target-12-several-mobsters-set-to-be-released-from-prison-in-2014/

http://wpri.com/2014/01/22/mobsters-adult-son-missing-since-sunday/

The second article is interesting in that Deluca Jr.'s Mom called him and had dinner plans with him the next day...She must be in the immediate area, I wonder if Bobby Sr. is close by as well??????

those are some big names coming out this year with Guglielmetti and Mannochio

They are some big names...but very advanced in age. I can't see Manocchio getting back in the game, but who knows? Gug has been out of the game for quite some time, the landscape has changed dramatically since he's been locked up, and he's 65 as well...the bottom line is that there needs to be quite a few younger guys and I haven't heard of many that are truly capable.

Don't providence only have like 5 active made guys left or something stupid? There done

There are 13 total known made members remaining in the Providence faction:

7 of them are in prison - Eddie Lato, Rocco Folco, Matthew Guglielmetti, Luigi Manocchio, Frank Marrapese, Chippy Scivola, and Anthony St. Laurent.

That leaves 6 - Joe Achille Sr, William Delsanto, Vito DeLuca, Pasquale Galea, Joseph Ruggiero, and Raymond Patriarca Jr. But not all of these guys are active.

I leave the caps button on to help me read what I'm saying I have bad eyesight---ok Bobby JR- he was found was fine whole time probly on dope who knows(his mother is not with That rat anymore he is with a nother woman got remaried after havin his first kid)---so dosnt mean hes around the area. Some other things to mentin Rocky is another guy whos not made in this state.Also Good Lookin is retiring upon arrival. Again its done here and we can talk about the old days but thats that if you guys think its stil here or comin back your wrong

So basically that faction is done. Even when Matty G and Chippy come home this year they have nothing left to come back too.

My contact at WPRI and at Channel 5 Boston said the exact same thing in regards to Providence. How many kids does DeLuca have? Are you saying Matty G is retiring?

jcb so I was reading them merry files them thing are interesting. the one convo betwwen bianco and ray sr. is great the whole time nicky trying to bad mouth carlo Gambino and ray telling him to have respect. but Gambino is backing up the gallo faction against profaci brother inlaw, nick stuck in the middle and Gambino playing both sides. guess Gambino was a weasel like joe bonanno said. ray sr became boss I read in 1952 or 54. so he was a boss before Genovese or Gambino. it always says a confidential informant sated this or that but the fbi were using illegal bugs everywhere so that's why they say a informant said it to cover the tracks, they just new way to much. how organize they were back in the 70tys baby shacks is hiding out in Chicago with some jewish book max who the fbi staes is the biggest bookie out there, and is joe doves right hand man. the Chicago posters probably no of this guy max issoro, sounds Italian but the the first name max maybe half and half. also never new baby shacks was that wealthy back then he had the book and took all the layoff in r.i. back then so he;s got ancient money. also he was hiding out in nyc with flemmi and salemmi. it says 1 c.i. states backy shacky is around central park dressing sharp as ever, who tells that to the fbi probably flemmi, him and salemmi were broke baby shacks was tking planes all over the place. how bout when rays sr. says to bianco I rather eat with five guys here and be full then then 200guys in Brooklyn fighting over a buck. my final post on this seems like baby shacks didn't make a lot of guys down there maybe you had to kill to get a button for him, but the last couple yrs they made probably 10 guys around boston so there good up there, it tradition now they'll kick ot going as long as nyc has the 5 familes. they said 15 yrs ago the Colombo were gonna be absolved into the other 4 familes hasn't happed, the new jersey family still around. philly keeps going they got the coolest mob boss in America rite now skinny joe. not the strongest the coolest, and he didtn retire he could have had a book deal, tv show when he got out 3 yrs ago. he'll carry on there lcn shit.

Hey pmac,

Yeah, I think those files are pretty cool, provide a lot of background info on the key players. I am not as well versed on the Patriarca's from pre-1980's, as they are IMO one of the most interesting families to read about. In regards to Carlo being a weasel...I'd go out on a limb and say that any mob boss was condescending, as they were criminals at the end of the day. Some had more honor than others I'm sure, but it's interesting to read about and piece together the intel provided by the Feds in those days. And with J. Edgar Hoover at the helm, I'm sure he had illegal wiretaps on everybody, it was just his nature. As far as Joey Merlino, I'm not a fan of this generation of mobsters and I think they have no respect for anything anymore, so my opinion is probably biased. I will give him credit for keeping his mouth shut though.

Providence has more guys than you think. Manton you said no one has been made since Juniors time, but that is definitely not true. Up here in Boston there are plenty of guys in there 30s and 40s that are involved, some are made and some are working their way up. Im not mentioning any names tho. These guys are from Boston and all around the greater Boston area. I wish i coud say more, but i cant go too much into this topic. Why do you guys think the power switched back to Boston cause we got our shit together right now and Providence is weaker, but they are far from done. Just wait till Pretty gets out down there, i know you said hes retiring, but we we will see about that when he gets out.

It will certainly be interesting to see Matty G and if at 65, he has the weight that he once carried. I still don't see Baby Shacks getting back into the game, plus he'll be on supervised release. I wouldn't be shocked if he turns out like Angiulo, come out of the can and die shortly after. DeLuca certainly gave the Feds everything on Providence and Ruggiero IMO is nothing without Baby Shacks around, plus he just got outed in the media after his latest business venture in New Bedford.

Shacks is gonna sail off into the sunset when he gets out. I think he will live longer than Anguilo, Louie is a crazy health nut, hes in better shape then guys 20 yrs younger. Matty still holds weight, trust me. He didnt become so powerfull at a young age for nothing. Deluca may have given up more than what we already know, but he was gone for almost 12 yrs in the can, so hes not privy to every little thing that has gone on. Thats why the strip club case came cause Bobby was out and ratting. There prolly is more to come from Pussy Deluca, but why wouldnt the feds wrap all his information into a sweeping RICO indictment and wipe everyone out. Bobby barely has stripes, he,only got where he was cause of Cadillac, he dont know as much as everyone thinks. Was never a tough guy. Only time will tell whats gonna happen with Baldy, but i dont believe he has too much info to offer.

I agree with you Ville about Shacks riding off into the sunset. Shit, I'd love to see him head over to Italy and live out his remaining time over there. Shacks is my favorite mob boss, hands down. Classy guy, courteous to agents, ruled with an iron fist. Personally, I think the reason the Feds haven't done a sweeping indictment is because they are still piecing some of the info together to build a stronger RICO case against "whoever the targets are." If they gave Baldy a free pass over some chicken shit charges and light sentences that were the result of his cooperation, then every wiseguy in America is going to cooperate with those kind of sweetheart deals. Time will tell, but I hope Providence makes a strong comeback, need quite a bit of younger blood made in Providence.

I do agree with you tho about the Feds still piecing something together on whoever it may be, like you said time will tell. Who knows what the future holds. What do we know we are just guys on a blog.

We certainly are "bloggers!" Does Limone still live in Medford in that apartment or has he moved since he received his judgement?

I think that anything Bobby did Stevie Whitey Cadillac and Rosetti knew about, and so did the Govt. I am not so sure they want to be embarrassed by all this. The bad guys were All informants. That is just my humble opinion

Do you guys think Bobby is out of New England? West Coast, East Coast, Midwest?

Hey JCB I think if he were in New England there would have been some sightings. It seems to me that if an informant goes into the program with a good amount of money (Crazy Phil) they end up on the west coast and if they are not as wealthy they go to the Midwest (Henry Hill, initially). That being said I would say he would be on the West Coast. Might even be Phil's neighbor. I have heard there are a lot of federal witnesses from the east coast all along the California coast. Again speculation on my part.

What's the story with Matt G? How did he get to be so powerful so young?

Also something I always wondered, was ray sr Sicilian? And I know he was made in NYC but by who?

Thats a very good opinion artichoke. Cause his information on those guys would be pretty much useless. Thats why I say Bobby might not have much to offer. He was only out a few years before the strip club indictment was dropped and outed as an informant. So he dont know all that was going on while he was locked up, and he sure as shit dont know what Billy and Cheese and the old timers were doing up here in Boston. He definitely has old info which could be deadly to some, but i think he only knows things about old Providence matters and info about Eastie guys from the early 90s. They are more factioned based in Boston right now, so Deluca could no whats going on with one group and not have a clue about another crew.

Finally a guy that knows something, I've ben saying for months that there are many more made guys and advancing associates in Boston and RI than people know. I even relayed a few stories and still got nowhere. I'm not saying they are on every street corner, but it's far from over.

Mannachio was in charge for over 12 years virtually un-bothered, he would have been crazy to not make his fair share of guys and leave his mark plus he had the Big Cheese in Boston wandering around the north end. It was a very long time between major indictments in NE.

Rumor once surfaced DeLuca was in either NC or SC, someone claimed to have spotted him there.

If he gave up more and there's cases coming it'll happened before these guys get released this year. Otherwise in the next few years Cheese and his brother are out and the clan is all reunited...

Right on Ville ( nice to meet ya btw )someone who knows what their talking about ,you got it right and that was what I was sayin in my very first post here on the boards.

Ciao, Fedora Frank

YOU GUYS DONT KNOW YOUR SHIT FROM SHINOLA. GOOD LOOKIN MATTY GOT MADE HE WAS BEST FRIENDS WITH RAYMOND PATRIARCA JUNIOR AND HIS FATHER WAS CONNECTED DIRECTLY WITH OLD MAN DAY. IN IN THE BEGINNING 1990'S RAY HAD TO STEP DOWN MATTY CAME UP WITH HIM HE WENT AWAY FOR RACKETEERING THEN THESE GUYS HAD A WAR IT WAS RAY JR LOYALISTS AGAINST GUYS FROM EAST BOSTON AND RAY JR STEPPED OUT HE INHERITED ALL THE MONEY NO MEED TO BOTHER. NICKY BIANCO TOOK OVER COULDNT GET RECOGNIZED FROM NEW YORK THEY DIDNT LIKE HIM THEN FRANK SALEMME FROM BOSTON TOOK OVER HE WAS WITH JUNIOR AND HE BROGUT ALONG HIS PEOPLE LIKE MARK ROSETTI WHO ENDED UP BEING A DOPE HEAD DID HEROIN. SO ALL THE PEOPLE IN BOSTON WHO WERE AGAINST HIM EITHER WENT TO PRISON OR GOT PUT ON THE SHELF SND DID OWN THING THATS WHY YOU GOT FACTIONS. THERES NOBODY LEFT IN PROVIDENCE ON THE STREET THE ONLY REAL GUYS ARE EDDY CHIP AND GOOD LOOKIN MATT AND THEY ARE ALL LOCKED UP THE REST ARE TOO OLD OR NOT THE REAL. SOME GUYS SHOUKD MAYBE HAVE BEEN MADE SPECIALLY WHEN YA LOOK AT BOSTON THEY MADE ALL KINDS OF DRUGGIES AND LOSERS BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS A FAMILY LIKE IT USED TO BE. IN R.I. IT WAS CHIP AND JOE RUGGERO THAT GOT MADE YHATS IT AND THERES NO CONNECTION TO BOSTON LOUIE FREELANCED THR WHOL THING AND THEY MADE ALL LOSERS ITS A DISGRACE THATS WHY IF YOU READ THE COURT PAPERS ED LATO DOESNT EVEN KNOW THE GUYS THAT WERE GETTIN THE MONEY FROM THE STRIP LUBS HE TALKS TO BOBBY DELUCA THE RAT AND DOESNT EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF THE GUYS-- AND YOU GUYS THINK ITS STILL GOING?? THATS A FANTASY. MATTY IS DONE HE IS NOT CONNECTED TO MOST NOT NOONE IN BOSTON JUNIOR IS DONE JOE RUGGERO IS A RICH NONCRIMINAL AND EDDY AND CHIPPY HAVE NOTHIN TO COME BSCK TO THEY WILL GET SOCIAL SECURITY AND EAT FOR FREE AT DOLCE VITA AND THATS THAT. THE YOUNG DRUGGIES IN BOSTON CAN PRETEND TO BE A FLASHBACK BUT IF YOU GUYS SEEN 1975 1980 IN PROVIDENCE YOU WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE

BELEVE WHAT YA WANT BUT THEY CLOSED THE BOOKS IN R.I. THIS WAS THE POWER BASE AND THE GUY ON THE DOMESTIC IS A DEAR FRIEND THAT YOUR TALKIN OUT OF LINE ABOUT AND HES SERIOUS AND NOT A MEMBER THERE ARE NO MORE MEMBERS IN THIS STATE PERIOD

Last warning, Manton. Knock off the caps!!!!

Ok Manton thanks for the rundown on the Patriarca's, you gave us information that anyone can,look on the internet and find out about. Thats all common knowledge brother. And thats why i stated they are factioned based right now, cause crews are doing their own thing, and they are kicking up in Boston. Providence was the powerbase, keyword was. Boston holds that now buddy, and you are only saying Boston made drug addicts cause of all the talk about Billy Angelesco and Mark Rossetti and heroin. Otherwise we got old timers that carry more weight than anyone in Providence, except maybe Louie and even a few of these guys are on Shack's level. We got young guys that are not on drugs and are very good earners. You can tell me Providence is done till my ear falls off, but thats far from the truth. If Louie let the Boston guys do what they wanted and had nothing to do with it, then why did he get indicted for the strip club case. He was still connected with Boston guys during that time period. I may be from Boston and you Providence, but im saying they are trying to make a come back and Boston is already on the road getting things done.

Louie may have freelanced it, but was still receiving a cut from certain factions. Its already been stated that the Providence and Boston guys barely know what eachother look like. This isnt 1960 when they were a full fledged family, they have to be the way they are these days cause its not easy like it use to be. I can tell your an older guy with the old info your talking about. My info is up to date and its legit and why would i even bother talking about this if it wasnt true. Are you invloved cause you like to think your correct on everything you say, but your not brother. I could tell you more about guys in Providence that you dont know, but im not gonna put it on blast on a public forum. Why wouldnt the feds just say the power base is back in Boston and Providence is completely done. They havent said that yet cause theyre privy to whats going on and they will never say Providence is done. Its not done and thats the,last im gonna say, for those who believe it or not, its fine with me cause im no bollshitter and get my straight from people who know how it is.

And Manton these days especially its more factioned based with guys not even sure who the head is. They kick up to who they're told to and if you think Shacks wasnt connected to the Cheese and the North End fellas then your wrong. Theres video of Louie, Cheese, and Limone meeting in Sharon from a little before Cheese got busted and the other busts. So whats that say, they were just meeting up to have a cup of coffee. No my friend think about, its still going on they are just in transion right now waiting to figure everything out.

"Mannachio was in charge for over 12 years virtually un-bothered, he would have been crazy to not make his fair share of guys and leave his mark"

I don't know anything first hand about what is going on in New England, however, it is worth mentioning that what you are talking about is not impossible or unprecedented. I believe that both Scalish in Cleveland and Marcello in New Orleans had large operations that were relatively little harassment and yet neither made a lot of guys and this was part of what caused their organizations to dry up.

I agree with some of that, but the New England Mob is definitely at their weakest point and I don't see the family being where it once was. Limone doesn't have much time left, Louie is finished and a lot of their key guys are up there in age. Unless they go out on a full recruitment campaign and make a whole bunch of young guys to replace the aging mobsters, eventually age and attrition will catch up to them. There will always be guys who are making book, loansharking and so forth...but the days of old are gone. I'm sure they will try to salvage whatever they can, but their strongest guys are not getting younger. I agree, they are in transition and waiting to figure things out...time will tell.

They will never be where they once were and Providence dont have alot of guys left, but just trust when I say they will still be around. Ill even say, if Providence folds completely due to what you guys are saying than Boston will be a family all by itself. We got too many younger guys playing the game and the old timers are still here and they are very comfortable. There is plenty of associates in Boston as well. Why do you think that sloppy bastard Anthony said he will still be boss even if hes in prison cause he knows things are going on. But what he doesnt know is he was a pawn in the smarter guys game. Go ahead Anthony keep saying your the boss cause it just makes things much smoother for the real figure heads in Boston. We arent going anywhere for awhile. with the North End.

Hey Ville I agree with you. I think as long as the North End still exists the way it does now, then the Patriarcas will be around for a long time in one form or another. I think Providence could come back but it will be an uphill battle I do not think they can win.
I think you nailed it on the head when you said the Patriarca's will soon be a totally Boston based organization (I include Revere and Medford when I say this) In other words they will be, for the most part based solely in Massachusetts. I think anyone who is indicted as the "Boss" will be nothing more than a front. There are plenty more morons like the Dinunzios that the old timers can use. This is just my two cents from what I have learned from guys like Ville and Joe as well as lawyers who know many of these guys.