New & Strong Cleveland

Whadda you think ? Cleveland making a comeback or bowing out with help of Chicago/NY/Buffalo/or Pittsburgh ?Seems some NY guys livin there in Cleveland .By chance or for gains ? Makes you wonder. Amy thoughts

Cleveland does have a family, but the activity level is probably close to zero. The only mention of the Cleveland Family in recent years is Chicago Outfit made man Rudy Fratto mentioning that he had pull with the Cleveland Family regarding a debt someone from Chicago owed to them.

The gambinos are alive and well in Cleveland. Carmine agnello is out there on the DL

Is he active or was he shelved?

Carmine & his brother are here. Also a guy named Tookie.here from ny,to be active? To assist ?Add strength to a weakened family ?Might be so no one else moves in to take over.Still lot of $$$ to be made & for respect to Cleveland guys- they gotta answer to someone.

You think hes shelved or here for a reason ?Make sense to have a presence here,in a weakened area.But ties with Chicago through Fratto & Old man Janecce(tight with) DiFonzio)who was locked up w/ RJP, might make sense also Rumor has it somethings bout to jump shortly

^^Never heard that but is very interesting. I'd like to hear what JCB thinks about this.

Surely Agnello was shelved after that whole growing up gotti series.

Really, wow, this is a huge development, I'm shocked Agnello is out there. Is he in the scrap/junk yard business again..??

He has been in the area for years . He runs A auto parts shop from junked cars and A towing outfit . He may be on supervised release still. At least he was 2 years ago. He is tight with some Cleveland guys from his stint in federal prison.

As I have been explaining on these threads talking about "dead familes", the power and even existance of family structures ebs and flows.
I can recall in the 90s the FBI and media declaring the Gambino family dead, The Buffalo media on one hand claims the Arm is all but dead, and then in the same paper reports their activity.
Any given time in an LCNs history is a snapshop.For every indictment, conviction or death there are in most places, guys who have been waiting for their turn and oppertunity.

I don't usually post much in threads about the families outside of New York, and even more specifically, the Bronx crews. I don't know what's going on in Cleveland. And to be perfectly honest, I don't really care. If you guys say that there's still a strong LCN presence there, more power to you. Whatever floats your boat. But as far as Carmine Agnello goes, I can assure you that he was cut loose from the Gambinos years ago, and he's not there to oversee anything for that family.

It's probably true that he met some Cleveland guys in federal lockup. Criminals meet other criminals while in prison. That's an undisputable fact. But if he's doing anything with them in Ohio, it's independent of the Gambinos. He's a leper in that family.

OK- Here is the story. Cleveland LCN IS DEAD. It has been defunct for years. There are a few made guys left who run their own operations but there is no traditional structure and hasn't been for many years. Carmine Agnello is there for one reason: While he was in prison, he was friendly with a middle eastern powerful businessman that had ties to a terrorist group overseas and Agnello met his daughter when his daughter would come to visit her dad. They fell in love and he moved to Cleveland and married her. She is FILTHY RICH. They live in a very affluent section of town and he is not running any criminal operations for NY. I have researched this and confirmed this with not only the authorities, but with a few guys leftover from the Cleveland Family.

http://nypost.com/2008/07/14/gotti-ex-marries-terror-princess/

Before you spew this kind of inaccurate information, do your due diligence and at least report "a half truth" for the people on this board who really are looking for solid information.

Never said he was doing anything with anyone. He definitely is tight with a guys he did time with. With all of them being on supervised release they cant even meet up with out risking a violation. There is zero chance he is running Cleveland or there to rebuild . There is barely anything if anything left to run.

I wasn't addressing you specifically, Strococs. And I agree with you .

It's just that, well, you've been here awhile now, and you know how these boards can be. Pretty soon, some 19 year old kid will post that, "You KNOW that Agnello moved there for a reason, and blah blah blah."

I was just trying to kill such speculative nonsense before it started. Because as far as Agnello goes, I don't even like the guy. But he did his time, he got cut loose from the Gambinos, and now he's starting over. Granted, he's staring over with a very wealthy wife, which makes it a lot easier. But I'm sure that he'd like to leave New York in the rear view mirror, and it's honestly not fair to just assume that he's still committing crimes.

Here are a few articles of "run ins" with police that Agnello has had:

1. http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hear...and-park-ranger

2. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/we...rticle-1.149329

3. http://www.manta.com/c/mmck3z7/charity-towing-llc (His Company in Cleveland)

I wasn't addressing you specifically, Strococs. And I agree with you .

It's just that, well, you've been here awhile now, and you know how these boards can be. Pretty soon, some 19 year old kid will post that, "You KNOW that Agnello moved there for a reason, and blah blah blah."

I was just trying to kill such speculative nonsense before it started. Because as far as Agnello goes, I don't even like the guy. But he did his time, he got cut loose from the Gambinos, and now he's starting over. Granted, he's staring over with a very wealthy wife, which makes it a lot easier. But I'm sure that he'd like to leave New York in the rear view mirror, and it's honestly not fair to just assume that he's still committing crimes. [/quote]

No big deal just wanted to clarify that I was in agreement with you. Outside of the normal corner cutting ALL wrecking yards do I bet he is fairly clean.

As JCB1977 said above, the Cleveland family is dead. There is no formal structure, nothing in the way of significant ongoing activity, and about 7 or so members still living. You won't find Cleveland on any FBI list of remaining families.

Why some people on these forums have such a hard time letting go (for lack of a better word) of these families that are no more, I'll never understand.

I think the term "letting go" implies that they actually lived through it. I honestly think it's more of a case where kids are pissed off that they were born too late and missed out on something, so they're constantly asking about the mob "making a comeback."

Because when these people get outed on these sites (and they always get outed), they usually turn out to be kids. And as far as grown ass men who can't let go? I'm not a psychiatrist. All I know is, the Internet has spawned a whole new breed of crazies.

Plus 1, 2 & 3 - Friend_of_ Henry.

Amen...you'd have to be real lunatic to strive for being a made member in this day in age, the last 30 years have been the decline...The final chapters will happen...it's inevitable

I wasnt assuming anything & that is why I left it open to people who know better. Have no problem if wrong & can admit it like a man .As a few people w/ real knowledge have said,most of the guys are legit & doin theyre own thing. They meet up here an there to talk about the good old days.Mind you though, theres alot of money here & open .

You're right. A rust belt city is a great place to be a bookie. That's why I'm sure there's more than enough INDEPENDANT bookies. Maybe even a couple of groups of bookies.

But the remnants of Cleveland LCN are too assimilated to reach out to NY families who have more than enough on their plate holding on to the rackets in the tri-state to even think about sending guys out to Cleveland to try and organize.

you know your shit whoever you are..its JANNECE though

I echo Ivy

I told you right off the cuff Im not made and wasnt even an associate.Had a uncle who was & thru him met everyone & I did alot of things for them .Funny I was promised alot but after all the arrests- well all went awry.JCB said it best- youd hafta be crazy.I tell you as a kid I was afraid of them rattin on me & stayed away . I figure im young & not connected & who loses but me. I really believe I was more solid than most of em.What about Gigi & Reggabutto(dead)?Names arent mentioned at all .Theres a guy whos heavy- Milanos nephew, owns an import place thats big & has a club Nido where alot of more recent guys all hang out( safe haven)

There is no doubt in my mind that many bookmakers are taking action in Cleveland...just not in the traditional structure of a mafia family of years past. RJ has done well with real estate and I'm sure Iacabacci has something going on. What always puzzled me about Cleveland (and most people don't know that they were one of the most powerful mafia clans in the country for many years, especially from the 1930's-1980's)is why John Scalish never had an army of associates to replenish the ranks when age & attrition caught up to them. Scalish was by far one of the most powerful dons of the Midwest, very well respected and had an extremely successful legitimate business in Buckeye Vending to show income for tax purposes, yet he didn't think about the future of the family (or at least on the surface it appears that way).

While RJ and Loose were newly made guys in the mid 1980's, they got in when the decimation was beginning. Jack Licavoli never should have been boss. Maishe Rockman had too much power and influence and the family should have went to Angelo Lonardo or somebody younger (any thoughts on who was most capable). The problem that I saw with the group of guys in Cleveland were that so many of them were street guys with muscle, not enough racketeers. Even in Pittsburgh, when Mike Genovese took over, he had Chucky Porter, Henry Zottola and Joey Naples/Lenny Strollo from Youngstown who he counted on to nurture and sustain the relationships with other crime families. I mean, Porter kept close relationships with Joey Aiuppa and Joe Ferriola in Chicago as well as Nicky Scarfo in Philly, Henry Zottola was very close to the Northeastern PA branch through Billy D'Elia and Joey Naples/Lenny Strollo in Youngstown kept very close to Jack Tocco in Detroit. It doesn't appear that Scalish/Licavoli had any young wiseguys who specifically furthered the business relationships with some of the bigger families. It seemed to have stopped after Scalish and Lonardo, two of the most respected Mafioso of their time...until Lonardo cooperated. The major problem was that Jack White didn't have any personal skills and as a matter of fact, it wasn't until Lonardo brought it to his attention that he should go to NY to introduce himself as the new boss to Fat Tony and the Genovese Family contingent. Salerno offered to have them make about a dozen new guys, but they didn't. This has always been a mystery to me.

You are absolutely correct. They were cheap & wante all. Didnt want to split the pot anymore than what they were. That is why im tryin to bring up topics is for others opinions who may know more than I do . Its not about lettin go, just cant figure how such power could just disappear, to almost nothin. Most are all legit w/ very profitable businesses & some deals for xtras.Loose is about laziest with nuthin going.Alot of car businesses,scrapyards,towing & such.As for relationships- they seem more to Chicago than New York.Agnello- well thats a story of its own. Theres an Irish group on westside under a guy Mcmahon(Green like) not as crazy & more low key.Seems to be musclin up & major connects.This friggin guy got more CPD w/ him than the district has.

I'm not as well versed with the Irish gangs as I am with LCN. Never heard of him. A friend of mine saw Loose a few weeks ago coming out of Mama Santos in Mayfield...does he still have the Ron Jeremy 1970's porn stasche?

Regalbuto by the way.
You did allot of things and you think this guy from nido is heavy . What did you do wash his car and get his dry cleaning?
dude are you kidding? you cant be serious? The only thing heavy about the owner of Nido is his fat ass. He is A cool guy though.

Its over

Is it possible or even probable that this particular Irish faction in Cleveland is involved in a large beverage dispensing business?

I do know for certain that a few bookmakers from Youngstown that have been around the block with Joey Naples and Lenny Strollo are running a barbut game in Kent, Ravenna and in Peninsula, OH near Boston Township. In fact, a few of the guys running the barbut games also worked the tables at the All American Club in Campbell, OH.

Come on JCB: Give it up. You know where I live. I'd love to go see some of those "friendly fellows" ;-) How 'bout those pics?

friendofhenry , You going to stick up the game?

How about the Cleveland Browns? What are the odds of them ever being strong again?

Cleveland LCN family comeback: 40-1

Cleveland Browns winning a wild card spot in the 21st century: 150-1

Pizzaboy's warped sense of humor: Priceless

Those were the days my friend, I thought they would never end: They did! I think it would be good to see some old friends. If you knew me you would easily understand ;-)

As you may imagine I'm a long time Steelers fan. In fact I was knowledgeable when Old Man Art called and asked for help with his "boy" Fats Ernie Holmes. You may recall that Ernie took a couple of shots at the Highway Patrol after a game. BTW: He played the next week ;-)

a hundred percent...excuse me...how do they say it in the bronx PB? ahunnet percent?

I wasnt referring to doing anything for him- I was talking about the Guys when they were around buddy.They were two seperate conversations.as for the owner, yes hes a cool guy, but actually referred to his older brother my friend.If you know anything about Cleveland,hes very tight w/ guys in Chicago & NY.Yea Loose still looks like Ron Jeremy.Poor guys got some real issues to deal with.As far as I said before,Im not sayin I was a bigshot or anything of the nature. Not a poser or trouble maker.I will only talk bout what I know & can verify.That is why I deferred to some of the others here who know better than I .Yes theres couple different barbut & rumico games,ravenna & ashtabula- some of Sabatinis friends & Y'town guys there too . Yes it is beverage place & scrapyard too.You corrected my spelling on Reggie but nothin else ?Oh well, gotta agree bout the browns & the comeback though.

Joe is not heavy either.

^^I'm good buddies with Matt. Good people.

What particular issues are you speaking about?

Dont know who matt is But I tell Joe is very connected.Hell of a guy & very business savvy.Im not tryin to imply anything but in mid eighties his business grew by leaps & bounds & was shipping their family brand into chicago & NY . Hes very close w/ alot of people. Hes old man Milanos nephew & godson.Paul Lish was also a very close friend.You seem to know alot bout cleveland, i give you that.!Ya know eugene aint doin to good. His youngest boy Matt died ( drugs)40 yrs old & it really took a toll on him .

Hes just aint right jcb , not like the old loose !Some say hes on meds for nerves & shit, but you know how that goes people just like to talk.Seriously though,hes really a good guy. Lot of people like to talk crap bout him( behind his back)that he dont know how to run anything.That is why cleveland is in the shape it is.

Pizzaboy, let me get a dime on the Browns making the playoffs in 2043.

I don't know Loose personally, but I do personally know Lenny Strollo and Mike Panzarella...who have said that he is a joke and Strollo made the statement that "Loose was like Ernie B, he had no respect for anything or anybody." FBI records indicate that he was not well liked by some of Cleveland's old timers such as Lonardo, Lib, Peanuts and Ronnie Carabbia. I know that the Youngstown contingent had no problem moving some of their people into Cleveland territory under the supervision of Charlie Imburgia, Pat Feruccio and Strollo. Strollo told me that Henry Zottola had a few things that he was looking to do with Loose and that Loose never kept his word with Henry and that Henry ended up telling him in so many words to go fuck himself. Granted, Strollo ended up cooperating but his information has been rock solid and he refused to testify against any higher ups in Pittsburgh which is why you saw Strollo bring down so many judges, cops, politicians and a congressman. He also told me that it killed him to have to testify against Bernie Altshuler and that he got word to Altshuler that he should cooperate as well but Bernie refused because of his criminal convictions in the past, he still would have gotten at least 18 years. The moral of the story is that even the guys in Youngstown had not one shred of respect for Loose.

I don't usually take futures or prop bets, Jmack. But I'll take that one .

Mike has gone to his reward

By all means it seems the Cle family is defunct but there is somewhere there in that football dominated state / obsession that is handling bookmaking and shy

These are very lucrative and tax free activities that someone is making a considerable amount of money .

I think we can all agree the days of guys clearing $10M a year are over but let's not kid ourselves that at least in NY and NJ there is a lot of money making and earners out there

I do feel the Columbos and Bonnano wealth is down considerably but some of these guys are rich already and can just live off their shy book and not take major risks as they shouldn't . The Luchesse IMO are a strong family and have always been ( years ago they were closer in earnings strength to the gambinos that many would think . The Gambinos are big and that's all i can really say about them but they have some smarts in the construction biz and very well could be big partners with associates up north and across the pond in the powder

The genovese are just powerhouses , their earnings and diversity I think would shock some people . I mean some of these guys have $10m in bookmaking and lord only knows shy they have which is the real power to this thing , always has and always will , shoot $100k on the street could conservatively bring in $100-200k in new $ alone and it keeps going on , now imagine having $1M out like some of their capos , but what really sets these guys apart is their garbage biz in NJ and NY outside the city and the ports . Some of these guys are raking in a tremendous amount of $ , plus these guys are monsters in high end weed ( again a smart play where the margins are lucrative ). The FBI has hardly made a dent as the schemes have become so sophisticated and borderline legit , not to mention they have serious power in some big unions , the big carpenters one I know for a fact .

By and large the Feds have done a great job and made some huge dents in some of these families but the Genovese are a powerhouse and I think even some FBI guys off the record would admit how powerful this group is , without their cooperation big union jobs ( whether it be materials , delivery time ) ain't getting done . Their services are still required to keep jobs on time and for contractors to skirt some of labor costs , I just can't ever envision a NYC/ NJ union jobs being LCN free

I believe what many of the Feds say about really having impacted LCN but no way have they had the effect on the Westside that they claim. I know fish market is dead but no
The battle isn't over. These are despicable men but you have to give them credit , they don't talk , they don't brag, but 24/7 they are scheming , and with only a handful of agents still looking at them , they are revving things up in their core areas , now I use 3 books so I get the best line but if I wanted 10 today I would have no problem , and a loan ? $ is flowing , I'm actually surprised how many people want non bank $ , now these guys are smart and won't overplay their hand in certain areas that attract attention but these guys are expanding big in book / shy , taking over a lot of territory with how fucked up things are today, plus the weed thing which no one talks about but this has become a cash cow for all the families including Bonnano and Gambino who are knee deep on this biz too . Smart moves IMO as if I were a wise guy I would be happy with being bank on a couple million book , maybe $500k in shy and wholesale high end weed . You do this in the middle range and you will be a very wealthy man and not have to worry about long bids . This is all just IMO of course lol

Yeah loose kinda sits back on alot . He had lot of oppprtunities & passed on them .There are guys making $$$$ here & most are in scraps & car business .Alot of legit business/ but you know something has to be goin on.Most all work( have legit job or business)& booking is all controlled by a couple guys.They got alot of nobodys handling for them.Shys are big too - as you say alot of street $$$ not bank & All the unions are controlled still & the carpenters are prob the biggest .Ironworkers also were but feds knocked them- it was a deal w/NY & millions came outta pensions fund!Thonk bout this ,cleveland port is big enough to handle alot & bcuz all think cleve is done/easiest place to do alot( no eyes) lucky to have a couple feds dedicated to work on things.Youngstown does have guys up there & buffalo has a few also on outskirts in ashtabula .I just came back up here & was in sun & fun for 20 yrs.Just kinda hanging playin cards w/few guys here & there & u hear lotta shit.

This thread is about Cleveland

SO a few guys control all bookmaking??? come on man there Are dozens of independent bookies. Nobody controls all the bookmaking in the area. Sure there are allot of people doing business but there is no formal Lcn in Cleveland. There still A crew or two doing some things but again its not LCN in A traditional sense. We do have a big mob culture in the Area. Allot of talk about it and miss the old days etc some younger guys want to pretend etc. But most of it is just talk. Guys people think are heavy are really nothing when push comes to shove, aka they will not have you popped

Some of the unions have certain people in them but they are mostly small unions. Does that mean those unions are scamming? No it doesn't, the union officers draw good salaries. Look what happened to Nick Nardi some years back. Now look at Sonny he is clean. Same with libs kid. There will always be union corruption in some form. The docks are run by the Irish. Again always going to be smuggling and scams going just like any other port. But is there a mass conspiracy on the docks no!
The Cleveland mob lost most of its power when it lost the strangle hold on the unions. The rest was lost to mismanagement and not making new guys and of course the fbi and rico.

Yes cleveland was tore down by all things you state ,I believe JCB said it best .They did not have guys made & no one coming up to be made either .This along with looses way of business hurled them into a bad spot .There are alot of independent bookies yes, but the big ones are funded & protected by the family( whats left of it)The shys are the same .My friend you may know somethings & but obviously not all. In no way, shape or form are they as big or powerful as before-thats a known fact, but you do under estimate them gravely
They do have a presence & operate & function LCN .Also you know well that each made guy has associates .They are very involved with legit businesses & have become very savvy in their works .They are the last of the real deal here !once they're gone - it will be a bunch of friends & wannabees.There are none standing in line to be made / unless a formal offer comes from an out of town family. Bet all you got, it will go thru RJP & hes closer w/ chicago than NY .The guys left are old &not goin to get locked up now.They still are tied in vegas thru youngstown connections,Skinny V & milanos sons ties .So believe as you want, but you will see as time passes- what the eyes see cant be denied .

One of my best friends who was in my wedding is the Secretary of local 416, his dad was the former President of local 416 and the nephew of Joey Naples from Youngstown. His dad supported Sonny for President when he decided to retire with the caveat that his son gets an officer position. I know Sonny very well, he was at my wedding as well and a very good guy. Local 416 was mob controlled for a long time, but it is a clean union now. My buddy tells me that if he even gets caught saying hello to somebody connected, he could get ousted from his position. He doesn't even go to the Murray Hill Feast anymore just to avoid any scrutiny.

The Sabatini brothers (Gerald, John & Robert) from Pittsburgh assumed a lot of control in Northeast Ohio of illegal gambling operations. They were directly associated with and reported to Thomas "Sonny" Ciancutti, the last made guy from Pittsburgh still alive (who hasn't cooperated, ex: Lenny Strollo & Chucky Porter). I believe one of the Sabatini brothers died, but Gerald was the the brother running the operation in connection with Manuel Xenakis from Pittsburgh, both close associates of Sonny Ciancutti. If all three Sabatini brothers were alive today, Gerald would be 67, John would be 73 and Robert 77. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Robert has passed away. Also, still operating is Joseph Perfette from Warren, OH. He oversaw the Trumbull County gambling for DelSanter/Peanuts Tronolone until Pittsburgh assumed control in the early 1980's and then operated under the direction of semi retired Pittsburgh consigliere Charles "Charlie Murgie" Imburgia, who was a longtime resident of Warren, OH and owner of the Sunrise Inn pizza shop for 50 years. Charlie was as powerful as you can get, with connections to NYC, Chicago, Russell Bufalino and Angelo Bruno. He died in 2002 at the age of 92. NOBODY in Warren, OH made a move without Charlie knowing about it, plus Charlie had a 40 year skimming operation of bingo games all over the tri state area. His son in law, Frank Nannicola (married to Charlie's daughter) owns the nation's largest bingo supply company called Nannicola Wholesale. Here are a few articles:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19920201&id=YrUcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CGQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1129,15357 (Copy and paste into Browser)

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/930823/archive_015665.htm (Scroll to page 4 of the article)

YOU think Yump is running vegas for them?

Great rundown. If Nic Nardi was made when did he get his button?

Well for me it was always easy money. you can work one or two weekends A year and Have a yearly income. Maybe up until 2008 or so. Then the climate changed ,