messina Denaro

So how long do you guys think matteo messina denaro has left.
I read an article that he was in need of money and fled gis territory.is the italian government finally drying him out of money and options.

Also a bunch of people connected to him including his sister were recently arrested for helping him, so it definatly seems like they are squeezing his network.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/13/mafia-top-boss-family-members-arrested-sicily

They (italian govt) does this when they get desperate. It's a common tactic to try and smoke a big boss out of his hole.

He's not going to flee Trapani area or he'll be caught. Once they arrest your inner circle protecting you, if you move, you're caught very soon after. I doubt he's hurting for money, but what's money to him? He can't go out and spend it. The guy is power hungry, like they all are down there. I think when Provenzano was arrested he was living off something like 20,000 EU/month.

I don't think he has long left. The Italian government was desperate to arrest him and did what they always do when they are desperate to arrest a boss on the run. They arrested his inner circle and family members. Most Sicilian bosses do not flee their territories when they are on the run. Messina still has a few trusted lieutenants not in prison, but with the amount of pressure the Italian government has put on the mafia clans, he won't stay hidden for very long unless he left Sicily already. Imo

He does not trust even "trusted lieutenants" with where he is. He only trusts his blood family.
He's been on the run for 20 years and people have been saying for 20 years he doesn't have long left.

That is true carmela, but the only way I can see him not being apprehended is if he had left Sicily which is very doubtful. carmela, with is blood relatives locked up now I say he has about a few years left. about fourteen of the mafia clans in Trapani are still loyal to him, the other six to ten I am unsure if they are still loyal to Denaro. People have been say he won't have long left, but now who does he still have contact left to command the mafia in Trapani? Only a few people but they are being watched as well.

All of Trapani is loyal to him. All of Agrigento is loyal to him. He was at the head of making the new cupola..granted it was a huge blitz (nuova cupola), but most have been let go by now.

He's got plenty of blood family around him still. The Messina's, the Salemi's, his mother's family...there's still plenty of family.

He holds the black dossier and as long as he does, he won't be caught. Politics.

Money is not problem for him you can be sure in that,he is full.We can't know for how long he will be on run,Provenzano 43 years,and as far as i know Matteo's father died at home in bed.

Yes carmela, Matteo still has plenty family left, but he is only as strong as those that are around him. The Italian government is putting a lot of pressure on the mafia clans. The real question is, will the government go all the way or will they retreat back to Rome as they did last time? Denaro is the topic of this thread, but with what Salvatore Riina had said about two months ago, one has to wonder what the Italian government will do.

Denaro is said to hold "One of" the black dossiers. Provenzano held one before he was caught, but did he give it to Denaro? If Matteo is indeed in possession of one of these, then he has nothing to really fear except for the chance that one of the other bosses could be mad at him and try to find a way for Palermo to give the O.K. to have Denaro killed.

Makes one really want to know what was discussed at the game in Palermo in 2010.

Well I think we're talking in circles, Giacomo. He's only as good as the people around him, yes. I say that all the time. But he has plenty of blood family around him still protecting him.

As far as the meeting at the game in Palermo, they were putting together a new cupola, with Gerlandino Messina at the head. Messina had just moved his hideout to Favara, after 11 years on the run. They had feared he was already being watched and what happens next. And what happened next was huge on Oct 23, 2010, with his capture. When he was captured, they found notes that were going to MMD. So the cupola was at risk and what happened next was, by June 2012, they were all arrested, cosa nostra and stidde alike.

That was pretty funny...they all came in balls to the wall from Rome thinking who they were, then they all just up and left. lol That was in 2012, too,I believe.

Palermo having MMD killed is just absurd in my opinion, but anything is possible, I guess. What would be the point? He's got a lot of loyalties and pull in Palermo as well. Who's in charge of Palermo these days anyway?

Nice to hear some news about what is going on currently in Italy!

Can i please ask, what are the 'black dossiers' which have been mentioned? I have never heard of these. I remember reading somewhere that Riina had some incriminating evidence that he had with him at him home, is this what you are referring to? I believe i read this in The Last Godfathers book.

Yes, that's it.

He got a cool ass name. Wants his nickname? He must got aton of girls hiding him out but probably not are there project building in his area like american ghetos is he hiding out in some widows extra room or a cave at a farm like provenzo.

Diabolik. And he even has a daughter who was conceived with a girlfriend while he was on the run...she's probably 17 years old now, I think. They were living with MMD's mother in the country house, but I'm pretty sure they moved out and left the town recently.

Thanks for the reply Carmela.

Does anyone know what life is living on the run for 20 years? Someone should write a book on this guys time on the run when he is finally caught. To me it can't be that great always living in fear that the police will be knocking at your door. Also it can't be much of a social life besides your most trusted people dropping by to relay information to you...

So if he he has this black book and he's somehow immune from being caught why are the Italian Police trying to arrest him? Sorry, I don't know much about Italian OC.

It's a shitty life and when they've been on the run for years and finally captured, it's almost a relief for them. Almost. But with these top bosses, they'll probably see their family members more when they're hiding out, b/c once caught they're thrown into 41-bis, which is an isolation for the rest of their lives, unless they talk. And they're only permitted one hour visitation a month and it's behind a glass partition.

A knock at the door by police? lol Hardly. Here is how my husband's cousin, boss of Agrigento, Gerlandino Messina, was captured after 11 years on the run in Sicily. He was #2 on Italy's most wanted until his capture in 2010...the guy I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's the same way MMD will be taken, if he even comes out alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6PsiynGL5s

That's a hell of a wake up call!

Since Gerlandino Messina is mentioned here, I have a question: is he known to have ordered any murders after becoming boss? Because everything he was convicted for he had done when he was just a young hitman.

I've been on the other end of a DEA/ATF bust before. They fucked me up one cold morning in front of my neighbors and everything. Come to find out the lady that had the apartment before me was wanted for cooking meth and we had already been there 2-3 months when they hit the place. Talk about pissed! Had me standing out in 20 degree weather in my boxers!

Haha was it like when they caught Johnny Sac on the Sopranos at his house?

Nah man I didn't have time to get out! It was a 2nd story apartment with no back door. My old man likes to bang on the door like he is a cop so I thought it was him. So like a dumbass I opened the door without seeing who was outside and they snatched my ass out the door before I could even see who was there. I was flat on my face and handcuffed with a knee in my back. Damn concrete hurts son!

I had to start screaming that my son was in the house so they wouldn't shoot the poor thing. He was scared, I was pissed!

They said sorry sir we got the wrong house and fled out of there quicker than they came.

You know, I'm not even sure. You're right, though, by the time he was godfather, he already had multiple life sentences. I think he first killed someone when he was as young as 19. He killed a lot for Riina, including the police sergeant, Guazzelli. Then there was the 11-year old boy, Giuseppe di Matteo, who was captured by Messina on orders of Brusca. Messina told him he was taking him to see his father and then they blindfolded the boy and stuffed him into the van. That was pretty bad and he was convicted in absentia for that as well.

I got a good chuckle out of this. Sorry.

Most people do.

Wasn't so funny at the time though.

That sucks DM, it is a funny story to read.

carmela, as to who is running Palermo these days, it is hard to tell. Benedetto Caprize was nominated as the head of the commission when he was on house arrest, but wiretaps and notes that have been confiscated, that were passed from one mafia boss to another, indicating that at least half of mafia bosses of the Palermo province were wondering why Caprize was picked. I read that acting boss of the Bagheria family, Giuseppe Scaduto served as a buffer between those that were for and against Caprize getting the nomination. All this was back in 08'.

Now five years later, it is still hard to say, as Salvatore Buscemi of Passo di Rigano is said to have gained a lot of influence and is a strong contender. He and Torretta boss Vincenzo Brusca are both said to be strong supporters of having the exiled Inzerillo family to return to Sicily. Another boss that is said to be growing powerful is Luigi Caravello of Noce. Maybe Caravello can bring the power back to Noce again, but who knows, all of these are just rumors.

One thing I find funny about the media is when they call Denaro "The boss of bosses". Only a mafia boss with the strongest family from the province of Palermo can be called that. Matteo is from the province of Trapani and can not hold that title, if indeed the mafia clans of Sicily did bring back that title.

I forgot to answer this...MMD inherited this dossier from Riina via Provenzano.

MMD holds this dossier of blackmail information on politicians and so they owe him for not exposing it. This blackmail list is huge and goes way beyond Rome. I dont believe they are really trying to arrest him yet. Politics in Italy is more corrupt than the mafia.

I assume you mean Benedetto Capizzi?

Riina was the only boss of bosses ever was and will ever be. I agree with you, even though the title of boss of bosses would have to be from Palermo, nobody wants it anymore, there's too much heat.

I read his first involvement in murders was in 1986, when he was 14. He did provoke a black-out in the whole city when the Cosa Nostra hitmen did a massacre of the Grassonelli clan, as an answer to the recent Messina murders (they couldn't even find decent hitmen so an innocent, Filippo Gebbia, was killed). Salvatore Grassonelli later retaliated with another massacre in which 2 innocents were killed too (Giuseppe Marnalo and Stefano Volpe). Really, the shooting "ability" of some gangsters really amazes me. Do they go on hits while drunk and high on drugs at the same time?

An interesting detail about Gerlandino Messina's convictions: when Pasquale Salemi was questioned about those murders, he initially replaced him with Giuseppe Gambacorta in all cases, trying to protect him. He later admitted this when it contradicted other informants' statements.

By the way, was Riina involved in the Guazzelli murder? I read the one who commissioned it was Simone Capizzi (boss of Ribera) and was organized by Salvatore Fragapane (boss of Santa Elisabetta), Riina wasn't indicted, but I read it could have been a part of a terror strategy when Riina ordered to kill 1 police officer in every province or something like that.

You're completely right. Gerlandino was 14 in 1986 when he first killed, and that was because his father was just killed that June, 1986, by the Grassonelli clan. I think the very first person killed that started those wars was Antonino Messina who was married to a Caruana woman. That's one way the Caruana-[BadWord] families tied into the Messina families. Then he caused the black out in Porto Empedocle, yes.
Maybe it was his brother Salvatore I was thinking of with the age of 19.

Riina wanted one police officer or prison guard killed in each town, that's how Messina ended up killing that officer. He was tremendously loyal to Riina and did anything for him.

As far as the hitmen..well when you give teenage boys jobs to go do hits...they tend to make mistakes acting like cowboys.

You're also correct about Pasquale Salemi. He was caught substituting names to protect their family. That's why he was kicked out of witness protection in Italy. Then he was thrown in jail, and later was released.

According to this article, a confidant has reported that Messina-Denaro has ordered large amounts of TNT with intentions on bringing things back to old school ways of doing things. Another article today, states that Riina, from prison, has stated he wants things going back to the way they were ie: balls to the wall, threatening, bombing. However, this conflicts with some of the younger mafiosi way of doing things today, but there are still plenty loyalists to Riina and if anyone thinks he's not calling shots from prison with this new info of MMD ordering dynamite, they're being naive.

http://www.antimafiaduemila.com/20140111...nel-mirino.html

watch out nino di matteo

Thanks for explaining article in english Carmela(since i don't know italian).Well you are one of the best posters about Sicilian Mafia,generally about Italy,i always enjoy reading your posts,even if thing about TNT is true,I doubt that they are going to use that TNT,but time will tell.

You're welcome, strax. The thing is Riina is still out for revenge against the italian gov't and wants things blown up and men killed, families killed, whoever. The thing is, even though he's still got plenty of loyalists out there, he's the one doing life under 41-bis, and has nothing to lose. But Messina-Denaro is a crazy bastard and just crazy enough to make things happen. He has the same old school values as Riina and Provenzano do.

If they start with bombings again,it's gonna bring only trouble to them,Riina tried to kill everyone,they kill one,the another one will show up.They need to operate in shadows and avoid high profile murders.

Exactly my thoughts. From what i have read and seen on documentaries etc provenzano played a very important role after riina was arrested by moving away from the high profile attacks and bombings and only doing what was absolutely necessary.

Thank you Carmela for providing excellent posts and information, the mafia in Italy in what interests me the most, i am always keen to read new information!

so I just read a article about whats going on over there on that friends of ours blog aka weird blog. but anyway there saying toto the beast was caught on a wire tape last year talking to another boss larusso I think, he's camorra anyway toto's gloating about all the killings even 1 killing of a judge in 1983 were he watched from a distance and says to the other boss I messed him up real bad. then he says quoting "that mr m.m.d. is investing all the money in to lights an solar energy he needs a light up his ass. I might have screw the quote up lil. but did he know he was getting recorded i think so, just cause he sas that mr mmd, like he didn't know him weird. if he in such solitary condition why the hell is he openly talking to another boss from some powerfull clan doin lifes. there saying it was recorded November last yr there some trial or grand jury looking in to those 92 judge murders like the state had something to do in it. really confusing and very interesting. didn't they let the guy who set the bomb off free probably lives in new jersey or florida today.actualy didn't he got to rome and get arrested for shaking people down again. maybe this is bs spread to the press by police trying to smoke out mmd. don't no how to link stuff its a ana press never heard of it. just got to that friends blog.

maybe the other boss was wearing a wire but I don't think that's the case probably roving bug. good question do mafia guys were wires like every one over here. you never here to many nicky skins type shit going on over there. usualy they l
kill like your kid maybe your dad and brother then you run to police.like massino wire the wire on vinny g in the bullpen. no mob guys must trust each other in jail in usa anymore after that. even the guy in the philly trial who just kept robbing banks well working for the feds.

Riina spoke to another inmate about what he wants done to the prosecutor, knowing it'd be picked up and would rattle the gov't just the way it's doing. Riina doesn't care what he says, he's in jail for life and under 41-bis seclusion. His whole life is tapped.

Riina was talking about one of the first prosecutors he had blown up and how happy he was watching his body fly thru the air. This prosecutor was the one that got the maxi trials going and also was one of the first prosecutors to start speaking out in schools, etc, about the mafia. Riina wanted to shut him up once and for all. Success.

What he's saying about the Messina-Denaro is he doesn't respect this wind farm racket that MMD has going for years now that generates billions for MMD. Riina refers to them as "light poles".
What I don't understand is Riina's sudden change of heart on MMD, saying he needs a light pole up his ass. Maybe he's just saying he needs to get moving and get back to the old ways of doing things instead of playing around with wind farms.
Those things are all over Sicily and honestly, to this day, I've never seen one move yet. Where's the wind?

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/sicilian-mafia-boss-toto-riina-prosecutors-have-to-die

great article about what Riina said with some astute speculation on what it may mean. I'm thinking Carmela is right, Riina knows whatever he says will get out there - So why not rattle the bars a bit?

kuklinsky did the same thing before he died, although what he did was more towards making outrageous claims of his supposed exploits, but, I think it was coming from the same "nothing to lose" place.

New article releases the newest computer generated picture of Messina-Denaro. The article goes on to say how MMD spoke with some guy about getting to an eye specialist in Spain for his eyes. (In case anyone didn't know...he's practically blind.)

http://www.grandangoloagrigento.it/ecco-il-nuovo-volto-di-matteo-messina-denaro-lultimo-padrino/

El chapo went down so this guys next even thou america don't have a horse in this race. But I really believed chapo wouldn't be caught. Maybe the CIA helping mmd hide been watching alot of homeland. He was smart not trying to ship a million pounds of heroin to USA like the bosses back in the day I swear maybe keeping mob bosses free over there is like a FBI Greg scarpa thing .mmd keeps them in the loop USA loves t.e.i. bulger

Come on gorgeous, translate or cliffs?

http://www.ansa.it/english/news/2014/03/...8362352df6.html

^^^ Thanks Strax. I didn't see the english version and didn't feel like translating.

That paragraph I posted above article, was my cliffs notes. It was really about the picture anyway, and in my article (which was a lot longer than the american one), the rest was rehashed bullshit.... he's filled a cemetery by himself...he strangled his rivals pregnant girlfriend, blah blah blah.

throw some white hair on the head and he looks like joe bonanno

Actually, Bonanno and MMD were both born in the Trapani province in Sicily.

We may need a thread for our encounters with police. I've had a couple strange ones.

One was positive, I was walking to my bus stop, only to see my bus pull up and take off just before I got there. I threw up my hands, yelled a curse, but then, all of a sudden, this lady cop pulls up next to me, she's like

"Didja miss your bus?"

and I'm all "yeah and I'm late for work"

so she says hop in! She takes off, flips on her sirens and pulls the bus over so I could get on. Surreal, but awesome.

^^^ Boring story and has nothing to do with this thread. That being said, next time I hope the bus hits a huge ass puddle and gets your school uniform all wet.

Thanks guys and gals

Cousin of Messina-Denaro has millions seized in property, house, cars, etc.

Article with video...

http://www.grandangoloagrigento.it/ultim...enaro-il-video/

Something I don't understand is, why was Provenzano arrested if he was in possession of the mythical black dossier. And didn't Riina also have it? I mean I guess I can understand Riina being arrested but Provenzano quieted things down and they still got to him a decade later.

What's to stop them from arresting MMD despite him having the black dossier if Riina and Provenzano were arrested before him? Isn't the importance of this dossier being overstated?

I agree. Why would Riina or Provenzano give up the black dossier? If MMD has it, and people think he won't be caught because he has it, why would the others have given it up?

I am not really sure. Or maybe I know but can't think off hand. My mind is amusciata right now.