Outfit strip club owner plot

Sam Cecola? Also interesting he specifically mentions Elmwood Park in the recordings the feds got on him. Reminds me a little of when that Motorcycle gang member was running around talking about killing Joey O to take over the Outfit's rackets. Didn't end well for him.


Interesting the article quotes "balls to the wall" when referring to him fighting the Outfit...which means there are more discussions on tape that the feds haven't released yet.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/24617...ld-he-kill.html

Interesting but unless more comes out I would assume he was just b#llsh#tting. It also seems he is potentially completely insane/serial killer type.

From reading it its not really an outfit plot, the intended victims were going to be outfit guys though.This was part of this guys kidnapping extortion schemes, they had another intended target too who i don't think was outfit connected. I do think he has a history with the chicago underworld whilst as corrupt cop and later on as just a criminal which is probably how he came to choose these victims.

No, totally agree....I meant plot AGAINST the Outfit strip club owner. Interesting. And Nonos I agree....seems like he may have been a serial killer type, though I do think he had underworld ties as Scorsese mentioned. Or even the guys back in the 70s in NYC who were kidnapping gangsters and holding them for ransom.

Anyone hazard any guesses who the "strong guy" is?

Is he trying to say he is worser than the elmwood park crew?

I think he meant to imply that he was connected to Elmwood Park, but you could be right.

Yeah especially being a crooked cop, I'm sure he knew everyone.

Interesting I took it to mean he was scarier than EP...but now that you mention it I can see this interpretation as well. I'd like to see the rest of the conversation to give it some context.

New details come out.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-...nthony-quaranta

Any thoughts ChiTown? Weird...the writers seem to imply that Mandell was working as muscle for Elmwood Park...yet the guys he threatens seem to have ties to one crew or another themselves.

Yeah very interesting and confusing...Tony Q is an Outfit guy and I am assuming this writer somewhat misrepresented Mandell working for the Elmwood Park crew. Or perhaps, it shows that Outfit crews are no longer staying out of other crews territories and are actively competing.

I really don't know anything about Mandell or Manning before he changed his name.

What crew is quarantana affiliated with?

The untold part of this story is Mandells ties to the Russian/Polish human trafficing trade, which have fed these strip clubs with dancers for years. He worked with this POS Lituanian who is knownn as as "Alex" who can still be seen holding court at Grand Dukes on N harlem in Summit on any given Saturday night.

So what's your take...Mandell acting as muscle for Elmwood or did the writers misinterpret his words?

I think he was acting on behalf of Elmwood park because there has always been ties between the elmwood park crew and the Russians and between the Russians and Mandell. The Russians have never made a secret of the fact that they have wanted to control the adult industry in Chicago, and if a deal could have been brokerd with the elmwood crew, it could be very lucerative.

That's some inside information. The Russians haha. Fuck I heard it was the Columbians!

Oh hi Chitown..still trying tio BS your way through huh?
If you dont know about the Elmwood park/Russian/Adult industry connection in Cook County...go find a knitting site or something, becuse you have no business on a siteb like this talking about Chicago.
There is also a Rosemont/Country Club Hills componernet here too, but a fake like you would have no clue, so i'll save it for another thread.
Now go get your fucking knitting needles

Arm--Who do you believe are #1 #2 and #3 in the Outfit today?

Hey Arm I'm gonna start typin' to ya in street lingo since you are such a wiseguy on Chicago

Name one current soldier on the street in Elmwood Park. Who runs that crew and who are the hitters if you know so much?

You can't go back and read my previous posts either because I haven't talked about too many guys out there...you are on your own kid

Ive read the nonsense you post, and it is the nonsense I chuckle at when I hear 25 and 30 year old kids taking bullshit at the Sports page in Prospect heights on a Sunday during football season , becuse they had an unjcle who was half assed connected in 1972.
You wanna quiz ME punk?
Don't make me laugh
Elmwood park in 65% legit in Real estate, and 20% Russian these days, if you knew WTF you were talking about you would know that.(I DARE you to deny that)
You want names? I have a policy son and if you have read my stuff you would know it. I don't name names that have not been adjudicated bt either the press of law enforcement, and in order to educate you I would have to break that rule. Do what you dom best, get half assed false info and make it up as you go along.
Now...didnt I tell you to get your fucking knitting needles???

This is a trick question right?
In case it's not..let me fill you in...that structure no longer exists
DiFronzo
The order after that is fuzzy at best...The Spinas, Vena, anyone who claims to know for sure who would post on a site like this is full of shit.

@thearm


i wanna hear about the rosemont/cchills connections

you ain't gotta name names but just the gist of the situation

Underground " Adult clubs" that operate on the fringes of legality.
The guy who operates in Rosemont used to operate out of Wheeling,is juiced in from genertions ago and made street tax free arrangements with Elmowood park, Rosemont and Cicero from the get go, so he gets left alone. The Rosemont police hassled him once, but somehow that went away. (Funny how that goes) The guy in CC Hills is a non practicing lawyer who has the Russians hands in one pocket and South side guys hands in the other. He has a brick and mortor location and actually had to take to renting it out when he was not using it to make his juice payments.

Well here's our answer Jonny....article says Mandell met with the informant and was introduced by other "mobsters" at La Scarola.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-murder-plot-trial-steve-mandell-to-testify-20140211,0,4200694.story

Btw...bet Albie Vena is quite happy to have passed on letting Mandell flatten Stavropoulos. Its going to keep him from going to jail for the rest of his life.

Vena & Mandell (Manning) are childhood buddies. Mandell is a schemer & Vena was most likely just humouring him. Either way, they didn't have Vena on tape, just Mandell's word.

Regarding Outfit leadership, outside of DiFronzo (if you'd like to believe it), Solly D & Toots Caruso are the only other two that we can say for sure are at the top of the food chain. Jimmy I & Cataudella are still pure speculation.

There is nothing that would lead anyone to believe that Al Vena & Chris Spina are in any type of authoritative positions in regards to the Outfit as a whole. They are members of the paltriest of the four crews.

He seems like a schemer. To me, the transcripts sound like him trying to look like a big shot to Michael.

I would assume that Stavropoulos belongs to Cicero...why would Vena back these two goofs?

DiFronzo operates exactly like Accardo did years ago. He can never be counted out as insignificant.

Vena is the Capo of the Grand Ave Crew and I agree it is the smallest of the 4 Crews.

Cataudella is under Solly D.

The Greek & the Polekatz establishment belong to the Chinatown people if I'm not mistaken. That place is a shady & seedy as it gets.

Mandell is connected to Grand Ave Crew, he grew up in the Patch with many of those fellas & was a cop on their payroll for quite a while. He is well liked by those guys but is looked at as a nut that should be kept at arm's length. But this recent scheme just seems like something he was doing on his own time.

Well I don't buy that Tony Accardo was as powerful as he was alleged to be in the later days. For example, I don't believe Carlisi, Joe Nick, etc gave a shit what Accardo or Elmwood Park thought or said during the 80s. They didn't have accardo's governmental/political connections, but they had more men & controlled more street rackets than Elmwood Park. Why would they give a shit what some old geezer who headed up a weaker crew wanted?

I put DiFronzo in the same boat.

Seems like this would be more of a reason for Vena telling him to cool his jets than anything else....assuming Mandell's version of his conversation with him is the truth.

I believe your assessment of Accardo in the 1980's and DiFronzo in the present are not accurate. However, I respect your opinion. The Outfit was not a competition between Crews. Each Crew was strong and vital in their own way.

Agree to disgree. I agree that there wasn't necessarily competition. I know that each crew was/is known for their specialty & that they've always (for the most part) functioned together in relative harmony. I just don't see Carlisi (or Solly D at present) would give a shit what accardo/difronzo wanted.

I cannot speak on Grand Avenue's relationship with Chinatown. I'm sure Vena didn't believe Mandell would actually go through with anything.

I believe I know exactly where this "club med" is located though.

FBI informant who made secret recordings testifies at kidnap trial
February 12, 2014|By Jason Meisner | Tribune reporter


Chicago real estate mogul George Michael was lunching with several reputed mobsters at a popular Near West Side restaurant in 2012 when he was introduced to a tall, well-dressed man who took an immediate liking to him, offering to help with the seemingly endless litigation involving a suburban strip club.


“He said he was my new doctor and he would take care of all my problems,” Michael testified Tuesday about that first encounter with Steve Mandell at La Scarola on Grand Avenue. “He was very excited.”

What Mandell – and undoubtedly the alleged mobsters at the table -- didn’t know was that Michael had been working with the FBI for more than three years.

Soon after the La Scarola meeting, Michael was wearing a wire on Mandell, a former death row inmate who had long been an elusive target for the FBI. Over the next two months, Michael recorded dozens of face-to-face meetings and phone conversations in which Mandell allegedly talked in detail about separate plots to kidnap, extort and kill a suburban businessman and murder an associate of a mob-connected Bridgeview strip club.

Michael’s long-awaited testimony is at the center of Mandell’s trial that got underway Tuesday at the Dirksen U.S. Courthouse. Michael, a beefy ex-banker who runs a realty office on the Northwest Side, barely glanced at Mandell as he took the witness stand in the afternoon. For much of his testimony, Michael calmly kept his arms crossed in front of him as he listened to a question, then leaned forward into the microphone to answer in his baritone voice.

Mandell, dressed in a dark suit jacket and dress shirt, peered at Michael from the defense table, at times resting his cheek on his fist, his head cocked to one side.

In his opening statement earlier Tuesday, Assistant U.S. Attorney Amar Bhachu painted Mandell – once known as Steve Manning -- as a sadistic, calculated killer who had outfitted a vacant Northwest Side storefront he jokingly referred to as “Club Med” with industrial sinks and other equipment needed to drain a body of blood and chop it into pieces.

The kidnapping target was identified for the first time in court Tuesday as Steve Campbell, a Riverside resident who owns numerous rental properties along Ogden Avenue, mostly in nearby Brookfield.

When agents raided Club Med on West Devon Avenue on the night Mandell was arrested, they found a meat cleaver, a .22-caliber pistol and Ambien sleeping pills that they were going to use to sedate Campbell, Bhachu said.

Mandell’s attorney, though, told jurors that Mandell will testify in his own defense that his allegedly lurid plots were “just talk.”

Spielfogel told jurors that Mandell was just “flinging BS” with Michael, trying to figure out a way to make Michael think he would help him move Polekatz strip club associates Anthony “Tony Q” Quaranta and Dimitri Stavropoulos out of the picture so Michael could collect in a pending civil suit.


“Is that noble? No. But does it make him a murderer? No, it does not,” Spielfogel said.

The undercover recordings capture a sometimes amusing glimpse of the city’s current criminal underworld. The code language Mandell used was straight out of mob movie central casting. He referred to Stavropoulos as “the guy from the Parthenon restaurant” because of his Greek heritage and used the fictitious names “Louis Linguini” and “Sammy Salami” to describe two mobsters.

In the several recordings played for jurors Tuesday, Michael and Mandell bantered about their connections to the Chicago Outfit, joking about “wannabe” gangsters who drive BMWs and drink designer coffees. They also griped about squeamish mob bosses worried about drawing the attention of law enforcement.

In one phone call from September 2012, Mandell told Michael he’d gone to reputed Outfit crew boss Albert Vena – one of those at La Scarola when Michael and Mandell were first introduced -- for a blessing to murder Stavropoulos, but Vena had balked at opening “a can of worms.”

“He (Vena) says, ohhh, you know. (Expletive) all over himself,” Mandell said, according to a transcript of the conversation. “...I don’t need that. If you’re gonna think that way, you’re never gonna get anything done.”

jmeisner@tribune.com

Twitter @jmetr22b

Sounds like mandell is calling a vena a pussy.

Feels like alot of these guys are just running around taking whatever opportunity comes to hand . Is it fair to assume whoever has the most firepower and muscle is sort of top dog with weaker groups of outfit criminals either staying out of the way or being preyed upon. This guy didn't think much of targeting other outfit connected people.

This Mandell character is beginning to sound like a modern day Mad Sam

Mandell sounds like an idiot...good to see guys like Vena have some common sense

Crazy, just crazy.

Mandell found guilty.

Guilty verdict born of a dinner meeting

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Video: Former officer expected to testify
By Jason Meisner, Tribune reporter
3:00 am, February 23, 2014
The story behind the bizarre trial of Steven Mandell and his plot to murder and dismember a businessman began at a quiet table at a popular restaurant on Chicago's Near West Side.

It was July 2012, and real estate mogul George Michael was lunching at La Scarola on West Grand Avenue. At the table was Albert Vena, a reputed Outfit boss, and several other alleged mobsters. A friend brought Mandell to the table and introduced him to Michael, and a relationship was born.

What unfolded over the next three months, culminating in Mandell's sensational arrest that October, was "so chilling, so grim ... it's almost stunningly hard to believe," as one federal prosecutor said in court.

Mandell, a former Chicago cop who was once on death row, was convicted Friday on charges he plotted to kidnap, torture, kill and dismember a suburban businessman. The jury acquitted him, however, in a separate plot to kill an associate of a reputedly mob-connected strip club. Mandell faces up to life in prison.

Michael secretly wore a wire for the feds and pretended to go along with the plan to kill Riverside landlord Steven Campbell. Michael found Mandell a suitable space to carry out Campbell's torture and murder — a Northwest Side storefront that Mandell referred to as "Club Med" — and had contractors outfit it with an industrial sink, butcher table and other equipment needed to drain the body of blood and chop it to pieces.

The undercover recordings made by Michael, as well as conversations caught on FBI cameras at Club Med, gave Mandell's trial the feeling of something out of a Quentin Tarantino movie. There was snappy dialogue, a cast of foul-mouthed underworld characters and moments of dark humor.

Jurors seemed to be stunned at times as they listened to Mandell and his alleged accomplice, Gary Engel, joke about mutilating Campbell before they killed him. Much of the action played out on a giant screen in U.S. District Judge Amy St. Eve's darkened courtroom as jurors watched hours of video of Mandell and Engel making final preparations for Campbell's kidnapping. They laid out saws, knives, a meat cleaver and Ambien pills in case they needed to put Campbell to sleep. A chessboard was set up to pass the time.

The jury heard the two quibble over the workmanship of their torture chamber, with Engel pointing to the plumbing and exclaiming in a clipped Chicago accent, "What the (expletive) is this (expletive) abortion?" Engel hanged himself in his jail cell soon after his arrest.

Also featured was a 30-minute video from an infrared camera mounted on an FBI spy plane. An agent in the plane circling high over Arlington Heights followed Mandell as he placed a tracking device on a girlfriend's car and tossed what amounted to a killer's "to-do" list inside a garbage can in a secluded suburban park.

On the last day of testimony, some jurors cracked smiles as they listened to a series of phone calls Mandell made to his 82-year-old wife from a Loop federal jail after his arrest. Mandell told her to find her Nissan that he'd left parked near Campbell's home, instructing her in a cooing voice several times to "throw away" the trash in the car, explaining, "You need all your space for your groceries."

A frustrated Mandell could be heard trying to give his wife directions to the car as she wrote them down. "Just go to Joliet Road!" Mandell shouted.

"Oh my God, I'm telling you," she replied. "Ah, slow down!"

The jury also convicted him of obstruction of justice.

The trial offered a short course on the current state of the Chicago Outfit and included names like "Little Guy" Vena and Robert Panozzo, the convicted burglar who Michael testified introduced him to Mandell during that lunch at La Scarola.

One part of Michael's testimony went barely noticed amid the lurid charges against Mandell, but it undoubtedly caught the attention of the people who dined with Michael that July day at La Scarola. The FBI recorded the meeting, though the tape was never played during Mandell's trial and his attorneys were barred from delving into how or why it was made.

After the verdict was handed down Friday evening, U.S. Attorney Zachary Fardon called the case "extraordinary" and praised the work of the FBI and federal prosecutors in taking a dangerous figure off the street.

Robert Holley, the special agent in charge of the Chicago FBI, acknowledged that Michael's role in the case was significant, but he stopped short of praising him for wearing a wire.

"Yes, there was a risk to him for his involvement in this case, but he did what he needed to do," Holley said.

This story has some video.

So we have another name...Robert Pannozo.

82 year old wife and a torture chamber

weird guy

Im not 100% positive, but I believe this "club Med" (lol) is located near Devon & Central, in the Edgebrook/Wildwood neighborhood on the Northwest side. A fairly wealthy/affluent white neighborhood. The strip where I believe it to be located is one of the quaintest, most wholesome in the city. Day-cares, libraries, churches, many family friendly establishments, etc. And right in the middle of it all......"club Med"

You wanna see what Elmwood Park really looks like?

Yeah, Edgebrook is a very nice area.

"One part of Michael's testimony went barely noticed amid the lurid charges against Mandell, but it undoubtedly caught the attention of the people who dined with Michael that July day at La Scarola. The FBI recorded the meeting, though the tape was never played during Mandell's trial and his attorneys were barred from delving into how or why it was made."

So someone else was wearing a wire at the original meeting? Not Michael? A rat in the midst?

I assumed Michael was the one wearing the wire.

I didn't know he moved to Chicago after Wham

^^lol

Michael was wearing the wire. They're implying that someone else was wired as well.

I guess it's possible the authorities placed a wiretap in La Scarola?

Interesting that they wouldn't let Mandell's attorneys to go into it/ask about it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if La Scarola & the back of City Pool Hall were wired up.

Then again, they're most likely bullshitting with that statement just to keep guys on their toes. Very typical.

I maintain they were bullshitting when they claimed to allegedly have a top figure(made guy) under their thumb & wired up for years.

Its interesting that it was Pannozo and Vena who introduced Michael to Mandell.

Highly doubt Mandell is calling Vena a pussy but my guess is Outfit is sticking to their stables of shy, gambling, maybe dabble in stolen goods and steering clear of higher risk crimes and criminals in the area are largely just doing what they want with little fear of reprecussions from the Outfit. Sounds like they want to just make money, keep a low profile and stay out of jail, which is pretty smart these days.

The Outfit has always made a ton of $ in shy business, but curious how dominant they are in gambling today. Big books require alot of manpower

It says that Michael wasn't wired up until AFTER the La Scarola meeting. So someone was wired up during the meeting that wasn't Michael.

What I find strange and extremely interesting is that they taped the meeting but did not reveal who recorded it or how it was recorded and wouldn't allow people to review the recordings.

Question is- how do they know something was recorded?

You think some more indictments are gonna come down from this if thats true. If they do what kind of activity do you think it will be for?
My guess is probably its gonna be a bit of gambling and probably some white collar stuff.

I'm sure more and more now that they have La Scarola bugged, just like other known mob spots.

Here is an article that mentions now FBI and NYPD wiretapped different part of the Genovese's Triangle Social Club. I know different city and different family, but the authorities know the common hangouts and can bug a place instead of just a person.

I'm guessing La Scarola, Gene & Georgetti's, etc are all bugged.
I have a vague memory of a place like Billy Goat Tavern or some other city hangout being wired because so many politicians went there for lunch (this was about 20 years ago or so).

I'm sure many of those places search for bugs regularly

Don't know the ins and outs of the law, but it's odd that it was the FBI that was the lead in this. Why not CPD? Wonder if the Outfit involvement is more than we currently know.

Here's the link I forgot:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/last-great-mafia-social-club-gets-clipped

"The 1966 wiretap, though, yielded nothing of value during the 60 days detectives monitored calls. Future attempts to bug the club--by both the NYPD and FBI--also delivered disappointing results. Gigante and Co. assumed their storefront was always bugged, and acted accordingly."

Pannozo is a a blue collar burglar from Elmwood Park. He was in that burglary ring with Paul Koroluk who is also a Grand Avenue crew member and notable confidant of Albie Vena.

the mafia doesn't operate in enough "chicago" neighborhoods for the CPD to chase them

they operate in crooked ass suburbs

it's odd that the feds keep busting outfit associates right before they commit a crime

I would have thought anyone who follows the news in Chicago and read anything over the weekend,would realize the "Outfit is extinct, down to 28 members" nonsense is just that, nonesense. Mandells trail involves a multi million dollar a year outfit operation...not bad for an "extinct family" huh?

It depends on whose jurisdiction this would have fallen under. If these meetings Mandell was having were in Chicago and if "Club Med" really was in Edgebrook, that would fall under Chicago authority, not the suburbs. Just because they are based in the suburbs now, doesn't mean they don't conduct business here in the city.

The Feds can bump local law enforcement if the investigation involves federal crimes

Exactly what I mean. That's why I wonder if there isn't more to this than we know. Did the feds take over this conspiracy to murder investigation simply because of the meetings with known Outfit members, or is there more to this investigation than we've been made aware of?

Club Med was in edgebrook

The Feds can bump local law enforcement if the investigation involves federal crimes [/quote]
Exactly what I mean. That's why I wonder if there isn't more to this than we know. Did the feds take over this conspiracy to murder investigation simply because of the meetings with known Outfit members, or is there more to this investigation than we've been made aware of?[/quote]

As I have said, this investigation involves a multi million dollar outfit operation, the Russian mafia, Human trafficing, prostitution, shy, and the adult and sex industry throughout the midwest.
Why just traget Mandell you might ask?
Becuse the rest of the activity is either "Legal", "Semi Legal", extreammly hard to prove, or NOT a federal crime.

Exactly what I mean. That's why I wonder if there isn't more to this than we know. Did the feds take over this conspiracy to murder investigation simply because of the meetings with known Outfit members, or is there more to this investigation than we've been made aware of?[/quote]

As I have said, this investigation involves a multi million dollar outfit operation, the Russian mafia, Human trafficing, prostitution, shy, and the adult and sex industry throughout the midwest.
Why just traget Mandell you might ask?
Becuse the rest of the activity is either "Legal", "Semi Legal", extreammly hard to prove, or NOT a federal crime. [/quote]

As we have all concluded, you really are just a teenager in Mom's basement with a big imagination

No idea what Chi town said becuse he is so totally irrelivant I put him on ignore, but I can only assume it is the usual nonsense....try to keep it down chitown...the informed grown ups are talking..k?

Yeah, which is in Chicago not the burbs.

I think the bigger issue from an Outfit perspective was that George Michaels--who was owned by the Grand Avenue Crew--was wearing a wire in a dinner with Albie Vena. While the Feds may be using him on Mandell right now, chances are he has other dirt to offer on his mob pals.

Just more prooof that this was much more than a simple murder plot, if it were there would be no reason for the Feds to get involved

The Feds were involved because it was their informant that cracked the case, not a CPD informant.

It is highly unlikely that CPD actively investigates the Mob because frankly, there are few mob crimes committed in the city. Suburban agencies do not have the manpower to investigate the Mafia, unless it is responding to specific complaints (i.e. video poker in bars and Prostitution).

In addition to the use of the federal informant, the FBI generally handles all Mob related crime. This is true in Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Boston and every other major city with organized crime.

Lol yes I agree. I think everyone is simply proving the point I'm trying to make, that there is something else going on here than just Mandell trying to murder some people for a guy that was introduced to him by the Outfit. I think ChiTown is correct, there is more to this investigation than just Mandell and a La Scarola introduction.

Question for ChiTown, or whomever, really.

Which crew was Sam Sarcinelli with?

Also, Dominic Mangiamele & his kid Joe, who were/are they with?

Sarcinelli has been around the Outfit for a long time with his buddy Larry Bradi, a former CPD officer. Frankly I would have assumed he was dead. He has been an active drug dealer for decades and did time on cocaine charges in the 1970s and 1980s. He was also connected to Ken Eto. I know that Sarcinelli was also close with Joe Lombardo and grew up in the Patch so I would assume he is Grand Avenue.

Sam owns an ATM company called "ASAI-VI."

Dominic Magiamele and his son were really just bookies...they probably paid their taxes through Cortina and Angelini so I would assume they kick up to guys like Marco D'Amico now.

Huron, why do you ask about those three...any reason in particular or just your own personal curiosity?

ChiTown how about Pete LaBalestra..i've seen his name come up know anything about him?

Sarcinelli & the elder Mangiamele were initial investors in Polekatz Bridgeview along with 'Tony Q' Quaranta. Freddy Plascente also hitched his pathetic wheel to that wagon in some form or another.

Speaking of which, @chitown, what do you make of the recent interviews with Fred on YouTube? What do you think of him & do you think he fabricates?

Pascente*

@funkster thewife was claiming that Pannozzo is the informant & has been for some time

Why don't you like Fred Pascente? Most people say he is a very nice person and personable.

Hmmm interesting. I'm very curious as to what inner Outfit politics is going on with this whole situation.

Also interesting that thewives or whomever deleted that comment so quickly. I wonder if Panozzo and Vena were the only two GAC reps at that meeting or if someone else was there. Who were the guys that Mandell was heard nicknaming in the wires...yet another question i'm curious about.

Finally, I can't imagine Pascente is doing much these days. I would assume discussing Outfit stories on youtube would be frowned upon.

Or they don't care because the Outfit is no longer the Outfit and is legitimate.

I don't think there is anyone that is more familiar with Outfit cases in Chicago in recent years than myself and I find the "28 members and a little over 100 associates" figures cited by the feds believable.

Can we please not disrupt this thread with this debate yet again....please?

Pascente is a scam artist & a bit of a "poor me" guy.

He isn't discussing anything of note, Just some old stories of growing up in the Patch, harmless shit. He still lives in Melrose park, and knows to keep his Mouth shut, but they'll keep an eye on him regardless.

Mandell referenced a "strong guy" or something no? That would be Tony Q who is a juice monkey, and was almost convicted for tons of illegal steroids prior to resigning from the Franklin Park PD.

^^^^^^^

steroid users are pussies if u ask me

i went from benching like 130 (pathetic) to being able to put up over 300lbs

i did that in two years so i personally don't see the need for roids

lol I can't believe this statement...man Ivy (Jared) you are a fucking online egomaniac haha. You need a life. I feel sorry for your wife (or your right hand).

I meant the part where he referred "two mobsters as Louis linguini and Sammy Salami". I suppose vena and Pannozzo?

It's not egomania. It's simply something I've concentrated on - mob cases from 2000 to the present, including in Chicago. And there's nothing in them that would suggest that the Outfit having 28 members and a little over 100 associates is unlikely.

@ivyleague

the general public didn't know shit about al tournabene until what 2005/06/07?

he helped plug james marcello back in 1983

the feds didn't even know or didn't admit they knew of his importance

No it's definitely egomania You take these mob forums so fucking seriously you loner.

ChiTown is now on a two week vacation. His hardon for IvyLague got the better of him and despite a few warnings he continues to make flaming posts.

Wrong again, cook. (Are you ever right about anything?) His name is right there on the Outfit chart the CCC put out back in the late 1990's.

http://www.laborers.org/OutfitChart.html



The guy has had a hard on for me for years, going back to another forum. What's funny is, he puts on this act like he doesn't care what I say, and that my posts have no bearing on anything, but he's never been able to lose his weird obsession with me. I outed him as a fraud some time ago and he can't let it go. He knows he can't hold his own when it comes to mob-related discussions so he resorts to personal attacks. Never mind the fact that his assumptions about me are usually waaaaay off.

@ivyleague


chicago crime commision ain't the feds

not too mention they had him very outranked when he was obviously on a higher plane

so once again the feds didn't mention his importance until 2005/6/7

Chitown actually knows these people & their families & is able to share relevant, factual insight that outsiders would never be able to hear anywhere else.

So the CCC was aware of his existence but the FBI wasn't? Never mind the fact that both share information and often cooperate. Sorry, pal, that doesn't hold water.



And we know this, how? Because he posts photos online that he got from God knows where? All I know is that he has a long history of misrepresenting the current status of the Outfit, as well as constantly calling the feds into question to justify what he claims.

People call thye FBI into question becuse they have publicly admitted, and in fact went to court for the right to deseminate misinformation.
I have cited case law
Given multiple examples
Yet some still can't seem to get theirn hands around this undeniable fact...leaves one to wonder why

It involved bringing the totalaity of the sex/human trafficing industry not only in Chicago, but much of ther midwest, under the thumb of 3 Chicago crews and their Russain associates.
Houewaives with no particular interest in mob activity who live in the Chicagoland area know this and have known this for months

I would imagine the FBI has close to a complete understanding of the workings of what's left of the Outfit.

They just don't go around blabbing about it, LOL.

The only time you find out what they know is when they go to trial.

They only go to trial when they have a slam dunk.

Unlike on an Internet forum, the only that matters to them is when you can prove something.

Regarding people who "know people"--great.

As I've said before I lived next to mobsters for a while, and my family was somewhat friendly with them.

One thing they don't do is have a few drinks and start talking about their business.

Uh...no, that's not why. The people who call the FBI into question on these forums almost always do so because what the FBI says disproves the lies those posters are trying to float here.

One thing they don't do is have a few drinks and start talking about their business.


20 years ago..I would have agreed. Not so anymore

Well, that is my experience. And I knew them fairly well.

Your situation, I guess, is different, since you are a mafioso yourself.

I was just a neighbor.

Nope....we have been over this
The FBI systematically disseminates misinformation, as an investigative tool, and went to court for the right to do so
I cited case law,, gave a dozens examples, and documented this nine ways to Sunday.
If you choose to never question an entity who has already told you they lie…carry on, just don’t deny the fact that they do

Sorry for the Dbl post

Didn't the FBI for years deny the existence of the mob completely? I guess maybe I don't understand why it would be different for them to lie about the strength of a mob family vs. for years to have denied it's (the mobs) very existence. I don't think government today is inherently more honest than it was back in Hoover's day.

@ivyleague


the Chicago crime commission ain't the fbi

someone who studies the fbi so diligently should know that

Who was your neighbor?

Their name wouldn't mean anything to you. Wasn't Chicago, and even in the town it was, the press never got wind of them. Googling their name results in zero hits.

However the two sons are both dead. One shot, I don't know what happened to the other one. From what I heard everyone else went to jail.

I lived in a sleepy little town that happened to have a horse racing track.

I've occasionally wondered if that's why they weed there; I don't really know, though.

My mom told us to stay way from them and we did for the most part but but my brother and I waited tables at the fancy Italian restaurant in town and they came in all the time so a little social interaction was inevitable.

My bro was also friends with the one who got shot from high school.

We know this because he has in depth/semi in depth information readily available on almost anyone you can think of off the top of your head.

I requested information on three little known guys & sure enough his info cleared with both of my sources. Plenty of others have requested similar info & have been met with similar results. Like him or not, the guy delivers. He said he was at the fundraiser for Infelice, and saw other top mafiosi making donations. One of my sources confirmed that this indeed happened. So chances are he was there & has regular contact with connected/semi connected individuals.

You, on the other hand, contribute Absolutely nothing whatsoever that cannot be found via the Google search function.

Not saying the guy is Joey Aiuppa, but I agree with HSA...anytime you ask the guy about someone he has a least a little bit of info on them. Unless he's totally pulling shit out of his ass, which doesn't really seem likely as his info isn't outlandish, seems like he knows what he's talking about.


Nonos...were you in IL at the time?

Not only will he provide info, it's usually pretty thorough & it's on guys that are barely traceable via Google. And I've triple checked several of the more shoddy/suspect things he's alluded to & turns out he was 100% correct.

Yeah yeah I know he & I must be in cahoots, or I'm on his nuts or whatever. Point is he knows what he's talking about regarding the Outfit & it's kinda foolish to suggest otherwise.

Arm, you need to help us with Fosco's picture! As far as I know, he still hasn't released any names.

I'm not going to say where I was, though it was a fairly amusing scenario. They lived in the condo that was adjacent to ours/above ours.

Once they got in a drunken brawl and things started flying off their porch past our window onto the lawn; the wife/mom came down and begged us not to call the cops.

Another time the cops were at our house for something and the office told us "You know those people who live next to you have no legal job on record."

Whether they were inspired by movies or the movies are accurate, they were straight out of the movies. Big gaudy sunglasses, gold chains, black trench coats and big black cars.

The uncle got drunk a few times and passed out on their patio furniture on their porch; we went out to get the paper in the morning and saw him sleeping there, dressed in all black.

The kid who got shot was actually just paralyzed, and died later of his wounds, like years later, from what I heard.

Eventually they moved to Vegas. Someone told me they all got arrested and the other son died, but I don't know of what. I think the dad may have died too.

Years later we saw the mom back in town working in the grocery store passing out food samples; my mom said she seemed extremely sad and broken hearted.

Man that does sound like its straight out of a movie, like pussy's wife in the sopranos. Well I guess that's the life in black and white.

Verifiable "in depth/semi in depth" information or simply his own opinion floated as insider information?



So he passed muster with your "sources" huh? Wow.



I'll take verifiable facts that can be found online, including Google, over speculation, rumor, and bullshit any day. But that's me.

What the hell are you blathering about? You're just stammering out of your ass now. The guy hasn't made up one shred of BS, nor has he made any outlandish claims, and if he has, please utilize the copy & paste function so that we all may see. If he has a personal opinion, he is always quick to point out that it is merely his own speculation & not to be confused with fact.

Just admit that this whiny bullshit is a product of your sour opinion of him, an opinion that is 100% rooted in the condescending, dismissive way in which he refers to you in these forums.

You need to get your head checked.

Go over to the RD forum and do a search for the time he claimed the Outfit still has the city of Chicago in an "iron grip."

You're a member there, I'm not. You have to be a member there in order to view threads, correct?

Copy & paste his words & post them here in this very thread.

I'm not a member there anymore. But he said that very thing. When he went by the name Fratto89.

That's your beef with him? I dont think the statement is true, but that not THAT big of a deal.

.....

Not entirely. But it goes to our original disagreement which was about the current status of the Chicago mob. And that would have been fine if it had only gone that far. I have the same disagreement with others on that issue. What made him different is the level to which he stooped in terms of personal attacks. It became an obsession for him (still is) and he actually got banned from the other forum because he couldn't let it go.

But as far as the original point goes, even if he does know people in Chicago, and those photos were taken by his own hand, it doesn't change the fact his opinions on the current status of the Outfit conflict with what the feds and over all evidence says.

......so basically what you're saying is that you still cannot present any concrete proof of him making that statement. Nor can you provide anything that would suggest he's got outlandish opinions on the outfit's current status.

So I was correct after all. This is about the way he talks down to you & nothing more.

You just described yourself. Obession, Banned from RD, can't let things go...yep thats about right...

I was going to say, I thought I recalled IL also being banned at RD. And I do find it interesting your contributions to these threads generally tend to be "Outfit police"....usually only end up arguing with people about its size. Don't care enough to start an argument, buuuuuuut you're not totally innocent yourself.

Let me give u the scoop on what happend to "wiseguy aka Ivy League " over on the rd

There was a thread about Detroit and they're viability where he refused to listen to indictments or facts or the FBI and just because some moron from the department of justice wrote an article which didn't include Detroit in his active families , that means they're dead
People quoted current FBI agents who are much more credible than a juvenile probation officer from Utah and he refuses to listen because indictments= activity
According to this theory frank toots Caruso retired from the mob in the early 80s and Michael lancelotti has never been a member of the mob.
He then lashed out at everyone due to his ego and the fact that I fucked his boss shelisa and made him beg for his job back because according to her , "officers of the law should not be obsessed with organized criminals"

I have given example after example after example, to the pointb where to deny the fact that the FBI engages in systematic misinformation is undeniable even through the use of basic logic.

Just a few examples

They had a witness in family secrets who gave the names under oath of 60 made outfit guys, and at the same time, claimed there were only 28. In other words, they contradicted their own witness testamony

They declared rockford "extinctt"
Then named a boss and a leadership
When the boss died, they declared it extinct again
They then gave the name of the new boss of the extinct family.
Then when that boss of the extinct family died, they declared he Was not the boss of Rockford after all, but an outfit associate
Again they declared Rockford extict
weeks later...(wait for it)...the named yet another new boss

At the same time in the 1970s, they had John Trenalone listed BOTH in seperate documents as a soldier in the Buffalo family and the Boss of the Cleveland family

The list goes on and on

We now have a situation where on the same thread, some are claiming the Outfit "has nothing going on" in the wake of a conviction in an Outfit operation...it is a bit ridculous

Interesting lol

If Ivy League wants to continue to play Mr. Google and the Fibs are the sole source of knowledge so be it. Anyone with a clue knows that's a pile of shit.

OTOH ridiculous claims about the current strength of the Outfit are just as big of a joke. Like the Arm just moved in and ingratiated himself to them in both Chicago and Rockford. Please....

I have lived here my whole life and know many connected people and probably some that are made.

I wouldn't even ask them how many members there are, or if they're made. I did ask within the past decade if they were still "making" people and the answer was positive.

So the FBI has no clue as usual with the Outfit. They knew about 28 members and those are now probably 20 due to attrition and jail. Other than that, keep guessing.

If I was still a member of the RD forum, I could find it and post it. Anyone familiar with his posts shouldn't be surprised that he said it. I know he said it and he knows he said it.

But you're right, the real problem is that he turned a simple disagreement about the Outfit into a personal vendetta against me and has never been able to let it go. Naturally I'm going to have a problem with that because he is always taking personal pot shots and it gets old. There's a reason why he got banned from the RD forum and is current suspended from this one. You just like the guy because he feeds you the line you want to hear about the Outfit.



I'd be happy if there was never another argument about the state of the modern Outfit. I'd be happy if I never had to respond to one of Fratto's (ChiTown) posts again. He's the guy who has kept this personal beef going. Not me.



There are so many outright lies and revisionist history in this post I don't know where to begin. Going back years on the other forum, there was example after example of times you disagreed and argued with the FBI. It's just the few times that one fed here or there will say something you like and all of the sudden they have credibility in your eyes.

Everyone on these boards knows there's nobody who gives the feds more credence than myself. But I also look at all of the evidence. And the evidence regarding Detroit doesn't support what mcscott has long claimed or what you want to believe about it. It just doesn't, no matter how much you wish otherwise.

We both know I never "lashed out" at anyone. I don't need to because I do my research and have the facts on my side. I have no idea what you're babbling about when it comes to my boss (who the hell is Shelisha?), etc.

Seriously, louie, your post just shows what a liar you are. Of course, you'll probably just backpedal and claim you were joking. You live in Florida. I live in Utah. There's nobody I know that you know.



The FBI is going to have a better idea about the Outfit's membership than anyone else, including people on these forums. Anyone who can't see that fact is delusional or just lying.

LOL and there we have it. Priceless stuff.

The FBI is going to have a better idea about the Outfit's membership than anyone else, including people on these forums. Anyone who can't see that fact is delusional or just lying.

As I stated, and I'm not naming names I grew up with many of the kids of the people you read about. I don't ask, and you know what I chose a different life although that was available.

Clowns like you are a joke. You know nothing. Maybe google will eventually get a street version. You know one that isn't a picture.

Hell I had a friend try to open an OTB (and did) with a nightclub a couple years ago. He didn't think anyone would pay him a visit. I laughed and told him the price.

You want to enlighten us on what the street tax the Outfit charges on an OTB in IL knucklehead?

Try that on google....

This has been explained several times over. There was a small snippet in one of the Chicago papers about Calabrese identifying some 60 members of the Outfit. Not long after, the we had a few different FBI officials in Chicago cite 25, 28, and 30 made members remaining. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those 60 members Calabrese identified were past and present. And that's assuming the reporter who originally wrote about the 60 "members" wasn't just using that term generically like many do. So, no, this is not an example of the FBI lying or changing it's story. Sorry.



God only knows what the heck you are talking about. Rockford hasn't been recognized by the feds as a viable family since the late 1980's. All we have is the Calabrese affidavit that refers to the late Frank Saladino as the boss of the Rockford LCN. But that in no way means there is still a family there. As I have already explained before, the feds had also given that title to guys like D'Elia (despite there being no Bufalino family left), LoScalzo (depite there being no Tampa family left), Smaldone (despite there being no Denver family left), Milano (despite there being no LA family left), and so on. The feds never changed their tune about Rockford. It's been defunct as a family for years and there has only been one relatively small gambling bust out of there going back more than a decade. Nobody is "opening the books" there so you can end the charade.

See what I mean? You naturally gravitate to the bullshit.



Who asked you to name names? I didn't. I don't know what your problem is. All I'm saying is the FBI is going to know more about a mob family that anyone posting on these forums. I don't care where certain people grew up or who they know. Even they are dependent on the feds (and Google) for most of their info. There's just no way they can know that many people and cover that much ground to not need the same sources as the rest of us. Pretending like they don't need these sources is one of the surest signs of a fraud.

the same fbi affadivit that mentioned calabrese naming 60 names?

the one you claimed to never have seen

Right, the FBI, which we have already established lies and presents misinformation by it's own admission, does not recognize a "Rockford family"...yet they continued to name new bosses as recently as 2011,(Thanks for proving my point) except for the one that they first said was a rockford boss, and then claimed was an outfit associate...in case you are confused, it cant be both
Rockford has indeed opened it's books and is making a killing in the semi legit real estate and construction rackets, you wouldntb know this becuse "you never question the feds"...you know, the same feds who openly admitt their public media is full of misinformation...lol
Like all of us keep trying to tell you, you will never get an accurate picture of LCN by reading bogus FBI public bullitins

The FBI contradicted their own sworn wittness...what more does anyone need to see to realize their public mediais intentionally deceptive?

Here's the report right here, cook. Where in it is there any mention of 60 current made members?

All we have is on page 3 where it reads "Nicholas Calabrese will also testify about and identify persons who are current made members of the Chicago LCN. Nicholas Calabrese will also testify about the structure of the Chicago LCN and the chain of command for the Chicago LCN from the late 1960's through the present."

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/documents/threat%20assessment.pdf

In other words, he covered the Outfit's membership both past and present.



That 60 figure comes from Chicago Sun-Times reporter Steven Warmbir, who was covering the Family Secrets trial. Part of what he said in the link below reads:

In addition to the 14 murders, Calabrese confessed to, he told prosecutors about:
--22 other additional mob murders he knew about
--4 attempted murders
--5 bombings
--2 extortions
--60 names of made men in the Outfit

http://blogs.suntimes.com/mob/2009/03/what_the_prosecution_says_abou.html

Again, he's obviously covering things past and present. And considering we had the FBI in Chicago cite 25-30 members, there's no reason to assume Calabrese was talking about 60 current made guys.

This all makes sense if people will take the blinders off and go with the available facts rather than wishful thinking.

I never said anything about the outfit haveing great strngth or numbers, I only said that the 28 made guy reference is nonsense, and that the outfit is till very much alive.
I have not moved in and integrated myself with anyone, I have known Outfit and Rockford people since I was a teenager living in NY through both nucleur and extended family. A made father and two made Uncles will get you that kind of access.

In other words, the feds contradicted their own sworn witness, exactly what we are trying to explain to you. What part of this simple concept do you not understand?

Wiat..past and present? Is Ivyleague claiming the MOST made guy the outfit ever has was 60?
Huh?
LOL

I'll say it once more. Them identifying Saladino as the boss of the LCN in Rockford doesn't necessarily mean there is still a formally structured, viable family there. You are simply making that assumption so you can go on with your lies about it still being around to make new members.

And it was certainly possible for Saladino to be both. Most of the crimes he was charged with as a member of the Outfit's 26th Street crew took place years prior to the Family Secrets indictment. At one point he took over things in Rockford or was made into any family there (if he ever was) isn't clear.

Your last two posts are a good example of how you twist what the FBI says in order to make them out to be liars.

It's very clear what the feds said and how they haven't contradicted themselves.

Give it up, Arm. Seriously, who here actually believes your claims about your history in Rochester, the books being opened up in Rockford, or anything else? Who? Cook, maybe.

Perhaps going back to the original subject of the thread might help
Mandel tried to bring the entire Chicago and midwesten adult industry/human trafficing and prostitution under the thumb of Cicero.Elmwood and Melrose park, not to metion some 28 properties worth 7 figures. A pretty ambitions project for a dying family with 28 memebers, don't you think?

Didnt the FEDS also say William D'elia was the boss of the Bufalino family after they were defunct?

You have no way of knowing the FBI's numbers are nonsense. You're just another "Mob Forrest Gump" who pretends to know people in several cities and is here on the internet to give us all the real scoop. Not only are you full of crap, you're entirely unoriginal. Others have played this very same game on these boards long before.

Ummm...newsflash, if you read the last 30 posts it appears it your your credibilty which has been made null and void, not mine.
I back my statements up with facts, you "never doubt the feds"

Yes. The same for other guys like LoScalzo, Smaldone, and Milano. A guy may still technically have the title even after the family he belongs to has withered away.

No, you don't. You bring up a handful of unrelated cases to use as an excuse to claim the feds are lying whenever you feel like it. Other than that, just a bunch of baseless claims about yourself, your history, and a whole lot of assumptions and speculation.

Wait...LOL...so now Saladino was an Outfit associate, and THEN became the bodss of a family that hadnt existed since the 80s?
LOL
Do you even see how badly you are failing here?

I couldn't care less about the current "debate" on here, but Ivy is right.

Calabrese gave the 60 names, and it obviously included, at the very least, people in jail, and almost certainly dead people he could ID as made.

Chuck Goudie reported on it and qualified the number with the statement: "60 made members, many of whom are still out on the street."

That being said the 28 figure thrown out by the FBI is now getting so old that it really probably cannot be seen as current. It's at least, what, 7 years old?

The best info I've heard in addition to the fed's number is that Fosco said that Magnifichi told him they made some guys either in the 90s or 2000s, I forget which decade, it's buried somewhere in the comment section on that site.

Interestingly this could probably all be solved with a call to the Chicago FBI office by a reporter like Warmiber--he could simply ask them how many made guys they believe there are--but he or a similar reporter likely won't cover it until something relevant happens (well, more relevant than the debate as to Ivy Leagu's merit as a poster).

let me fill you in... the guys in rockford are making a killing by forcing all the gangbangers to get in line. yes, the same savages that will shoot someone over a bright yellow gumball are so in awe of a few old men who i constantly hear hang out at some big fish fry that they are paying up. why is that? do the rockford guys bring in the drugs? maybe they are shaking down the cartel cells active in the area as well. since you don't live there, you are wrong son!

Tell us Ivy Leauge, in your vast knowledge of the ways of the FBI, why did they bump Chicago PD off the Mandel case?
If in the opinion of you "Outfit is dead" types it would have to have been just a common murder investitigation.

Can you even find Rockford, or Illinois for that matter, on a map?
tell me, what are the gang affiliations of the drug dealers in Rockford, and where do they each operate from?

Actually you know what..nevermind...the answer is rhetorical anyway.
You either get it or you don't...and you don't

One thing is for sure, the Mandel operation ALONE requiresd more then the involvement of 28 guys...and it only involves 3 Outfit crews...so do the math

The Arm:

I don't mean to be beligerent but I am not prepared to simply take you for your word that Mandel was going to overthrow the entire Outfit.

I think that would probably come out at trial.

Just for the sake of argument, though, who are your sources?

And, for the millionth time, I don't mean name names: I just mean "connected guys in Rockford" etc.

I've been among the quickest to correct those who claim the Outfit is "dead." That's no more true than the claims by others that the Outfit's current size and scope is larger than it is.



The 28 members the FBI cited wasn't the total manpower of the Outfit. The feds also cited "a little over 100 associates."

Annnnnnyway so...anything new on the Mandell case?

Not that I've heard, and I have a feed.

Actually it's been a loooooooong time since there was any Outfit bust at all.

No, I am not going to count Mandell, as he was not a direct member and for all we know was just some nut job dropping names.

But there hasn't been a bust of a real Outfit scam/likely made guy since Sarno.

That investigation began way back in 2008.

That's like six years without a bust.

You misundersdtand, Mandell was not trying to "overthrow" the outfit, he was engaged by the outfit. he has always been a reliable attack dog.
Let me give you a view of the landscape;
There are about 10 people (not LCN people) who run to one extent or the other, the entire adult industry, legal and illegal, in Cook, kane Lake, Mchenry and Winnebago counties. We are not talking about just massage parlors and $10 crack whores here, we are talking about a multi million dollar industry in escort services, gentlemens clunbs, swinger clubs and international human trafficing
Some Italin, some Russian, some god knows what. Some do so publicly, others are under the RADAR.
The entities who got them in line were the Elmwood and melrose park and the Cicero crews of the outfit, and the Cook County Russian mob, also mostly based in Elmwood park.
There were two people NOT in line, and they were the biggest players.
The theory was, whack one, either one and the other falls in line. The one that was immently pickes was chosen becuse he also came with about 30 business and residential properties.

As for my sourses, a lot of this came out in court for all to see.
Beyond that, I am either blessed of cursed with a last name that opens doors for me in the LCN world, so my sourses are both made guys and associates from Rockf0ord and Chicago, as well as peoplein other professions which brush up against them in a position to know
All I do on sites like tghis is attempt to set the record straight on some of the myth and misconceptions that flaot around. It is a good way for me to vent and cleanse my soul.
I am careful NOT to give away inside information, names, dates etc.

I thought Quaranta was linked with Cicero...why would he need to be brought back in line?

Nonos, I would count the Caparelli bust an outfit bust. I'm pretty sure the Outfit is mentioned in the indictment. Wonder what's going on with that.

Yes, right--forgot about that.

Quaranta was apprently off the reservation and not on board with the plan. The guy was comfortable making low 6 figures and banging Russian chicks and his envoloples were nickles and dimes when he kicked up at all.

Mandell is 100% Outfit affiliated & was not merely "dropping names". He is half Italian & a lifelong friend of the Venas, Spilotros, Spinas, etc. And just as crazy as they are, if not crazier. He's been a shakedown artist for the Grand avenue crew since he was a cop under Joey Lombardo.

Do you hang out with him often?

This is arguably the most informative thing you've contributed thus far.

Back when Mandell went by Manning before his old man got gunned down.

He's a pretty well known character amongst northside Outfit circles.

Thanks !...much easier to be informative when not defending myself from trolls and haters

Interesting, but they got the guy on tape for hours and hours talking about everything under the sun, and aside from the time he claimed to meet Vena at La Scarola, nothing else about the Outfit.

Normally I would say that makes sense because people don't usually talk about that stuff, but since he already had spilled the beans on everything else, why not?

It's likely that the feds would have sat on this and waited until they could bring more people down if it was a larger plot.

So, on one hand, he is stupid enough to get himself sent to prison for the rest of his life by openly discussing his plans to dismember people.

On the other hand he is wily enough to keep all the organzied crime stuff, for the most part, under wraps.

Not saying it's impossible, just playing devil's advocate.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against? I'm not offering an opinion, this is Mandells personal history.

Don't try to apply logic to a sociopath, this guy got himself pinched before by telegrapphing his every move and wearing it like a new suit.
I sereously question the wisdom of they engaging this guy to begin with. he is loyal and reliable as hell but also a loose cannon.
What he does have is balls like an elephant and is absolutly ruthless, and that is what this job called for..so it was a double edged sword.
Also don't assume the final chapter has been written on all of this

The feds would have sat on it & Allowed two men to get brutally mutilated & tortured in the name of the Chicago Outfit? Maybe 40 years ago, not in the human rights era.

Well, who knows. Not me!

And apparently not law enforcement!

Just using common sense, you honestly believe they would have allowed the murders to have been carried out just so they could further the case? They would have all promptly lost their jobs.

No, not exactly like that.

I honestly have no idea.

It's interesting that he remained loyal despite his father ending up trunk music.

What else was he gonna do? He changed his last name & fell in line.

I do find it interesting people think the Outfit still has the muscle to control an entire industry, such as prostitution, in Chicago.

Even in its heyday, when you would be a loon not to be intimidated by the Outfit, they had people like Aleman putting people in body bags left and right to keep control.

Now, a current whack job like Mandell aside, they barely if ever use muscle, and they can still keep entire rackets in line?

Doesn't really compute.

Let's face it, a lot of people wouldn't even be scared of the Outfit these days.

I once talked to Fosco about this online; he said even the old gamblers only pay because they are old and still think there is a Harry Aleman out there waiting for them if they don't.

the fact that this thread is 7 pages is amazing

Totally. Then you see important threads like, "if you could be any mobster in history, who would you be?" die out.

Fosco is a clown that literally makes certain things up as he goes along. He is a classic troll baiter. You best believe he looks over his shoulder every day of the week.

The idea that people aren't afraid of the Outfit is ludicrous, They still have plenty of numbers & have many suburbs under their thumb.

They just dont have the numbers to control the city proper anymore. None of the families outside of NY have that kind of power anymore. But if you'd like to open up a business or a book out of bridgeview/Addison/Elmwood/etc etc etc, you will not be greeted with open arms.

The fact that the Outfit has very few made members doesn't mean anything. This isn't NY. Non-made foot soldiers & associates a la Mandell have always been the Outfit's way of getting work done.

Of course, the notion that they're now aligning themselves with Russian & Korean syndicates is completely understandably. The Outfit owns the Admiral theatre which is right smack in the middle of one of the heaviest Korean districts in the city. And the Russians have been moving in on Chicagoland whore rackets for quite some time now.

Huron would you agree that aside from Bridgeport, Grand ave, to a small extent Taylor street, and to an even smaller extent Rush street, that everything else is in suburbs.

I thought you found Fosco a "very interesting guy " or something like that.

Anyway, yes regular people would be scared of the Outfit.

I doubt most hardened criminals would be, which are really the only people who matter.

And I hope you did not just suggest that every person who opens a business in Bridgeview gets a visit from the mob.

Absolutely they're (for the most part) completely done with the city proper. There's nothing left for them in Chicago. It's not that they don't want pieces of the city. They don't have the numbers/connections with nu-brass politicians to command that type of power anymore.

He is an interesting character. And I find his mannerisms & overall disposition to be peculiar. He also has a very snide sense of humour that I gravitate towards. None of this changes the fact that he's a very creepy fellow with endless ulterior motives, as well as a propensity for bending truth & baiting people.

Regarding suburbs like bridgeview, corporate franchises a la MacDonalds, obviously not. Private businesses & production plants, you'd be surprised. It doesn't take much to strong arm an entire suburb, unfortunately. It's actually pretty sickening & corrosive.

Hardened criminals? What Are we talking about here? Hardcore hardened criminals looking to open up an ink factory or a welding plant? Who are these "non Outfit hardened criminals who are the only ones who really matter"? What would the Outfit want from them? Are You talking black ex con drug dealers? You say some confusing things.

Traditionally the Outfit has been able to extort a lot if criminals, from bookmakers to thieves to pornographers to car thieves.

I'm sure they still can intimidate people here and there but I wouldn't imagine a professional car thief for example is working with the Outfit unless he wants to these days. They are just not that frightening.

BTW Fosco also said that there are lots of kid bookmakers who aren't connected to the Outfit...the reason people don't use them is because no one gets paid.

@ Arm, Huron et ilk.

Seriously?

I genuinely pity you.

@Ivy: Its irrational to have a rational conversation with, by nature, irrational people.
Stop beating your head against the wall.

Seriously what? I'm not endorsing everything he is saying, just the sex industry bits. Per usual: relax, Nancy.

Secondly @ what's his face what makes you think that criminals of that ilk aren't getting shaking down? All of them? No. The more impressionable ones? Certainly. Also, how is shaking down an automobile thief more lucrative than arming a pen cap factory or a dildo factory?

Ivyleague is in Tom Arnold mode 98% of the time. Using his name & the word 'rational' in the same sentence is an oxymoron. He means well but he's just not very bright. Or not very observant, would perhaps be a more appropriate way of putting it. Doesn't understand what it means to read between the lines & won't accept that his superiors might possibly be lying to him. Bless his Mormon heart.

OK, enough of this sandbox shit. Get back to the topic or stay silent.

And bless your arrogant, condescending one.

Humility is a trait desired Huron.
Your opinions are, nothing more. Ivy at the least justifies his. Irrelevant of it's position.
Keep talking from the cheap seats hero.

You asked me why it would be paramount to the Outfit to be able to intimidate hardened criminals so I explained if to you.

The Outfit has traditionally preyed on those rackets because they have no one they can turn to for help--why is getting a cut if an auto theft ring more licrative than shaking down a factory?

It's not. But the factory owner is going to call the Feds the minute you threaten him.

The car thief has nowhere to turn.

Humility is overrated. Don't use my lines, that's a real cheap tactic pal. You don't talk down to anyone in real life, I mean who's kidding who.

Really? So a sex toy factory/welding plant that opened up shop via dirty money is going to run to the feds?

Are you kidding?
If we were to get into the details and nitty gritty, it could be three times this size
Like the guy who operates out of a chain hotel in Rosemont and has an "in" in which both the outfit and the autorities give him a pass, the guy in Country Club hills who has been paying juice to the outfit for 20 years, sometimes cash, sometimes sex. How Elmwood park takes advantage of a government houseing program for use in the Russian human trafficiking trade, to escort services that have staff imported from Asia and Easten Europe as well as from the US, and the complex system in which they locate and relocate to stay 2 steps ahead of the feds (Its a federal issue becuse it is interstate and international)
The Sex trade and Real estate is the Outfits bread and butter rackets these day

Yes, the operative word being “dirty money.”

Look, here is the point. When the Outfit was in its prime, or closer to its prime, you had people like Aleman strongarming/putting people in bodybags all over to maintain control. Now “people” assert they maintain a similar level of control over certain underworld activities, though there is no more violence, or barely any. I will use Aleman, since I know a little about him. Of course at the time there were at least a half dozen other hitmen who were just as notorious.

Here’s just a few of the people the mob had him kill because, even when it was a terrifying entity, these people wouldn’t toe the line:

http://www.ganglandchicagohistory.com/2010/02/noted-in-passing-harry-hook-aleman-page_1.html

Personally I find it unlikely that they have developed an all new set of tools besides violence to exert control over the underworld.

I don’t think they control the sex industry or anything close to it.

I’m sure they do own a bunch of their own brothels, strip clubs, etc.

And frankly, regarding someone not being able to open a business in Addison, Elmwood Park, Bridgeview or without a visit from the mob, you are delusional.

This board has gone off the rails and is, frankly, in a lot of ways comical.

Except that isn't what your point was. Now you're putting words in mouths & going off on a different tangent altogether.

You equated "hardened criminals" with superior profit margins. "They're the only ones that matter". That was the "point" you were trying to make. You still haven't contributed anything that would support that nonsense.

Extorting car jackers/strippers has not always been one of the Outfit's primary means of profit. It was a popular thing during the 60s-80s amongst the south side families. The northside crews have merely dabbled in it. It was never something that was known as their "bread & butter".

The Outfit are known primarily for two things: juice & gambling. Everything else (burglary, whores, automobile theft) came after those two. That is still their bread & butter. They still use violence to get these things done. The whore business & property fraud has moved up by a good margin.

No one said they've got hordes of murderers in the wings. Nobody said they're running the entire Chicagoland area sex trade. No one said anything remotely close to that.

How about You put Your Money where your mouth is, and just for shits & giggles, contact the Westchester town board & inquire about opening up a dry cleaners. I'm serious.

No, my point is that the Outift, at least in recent times, mostly targets other criminals or people who otherwise can't go to the feds for extortion, etc.

Look at Family Secrets. There is not a single "innocent" person among the victims.

Thus my statement that I don't think hardened criminals would be intimidated by the Outfit much anymore, and they are the only ones who really matter.

Because in recent years criminals, for the most part, are the only ones the Outfit kills, anyway.

LOL... Addison, home Warren Buffett's Pampered Chef.

I'm sure some goon is going up there and roughing him up for a sweaty wad full of cash!

They primarily extort businesses that have opened up shop by way of loans doled out to them by the Outfit itself. That's juice. A business owner who took a dirty loan in order to open up a printing press isn't going to run to anyone involved in law enforcement.

Anyways, you're tripping over your words big time. Bookmakers & car thieves are not "hardened" criminals. They are regular people who are susceptible to anything just like anyone else.

And I'm serious about the dry cleaners inquiry. Just do it & see what you've got to go through to get it done.

The outfit has strong connections to politicians an police and people pay for access to that
Also this notion the outfit is non violent is ridiculous there just non murderous

Sarno was involved in bombings and murders in the last 10 years
Also solly delaurentis was reguraly having carperelli and his crew beak people's heads arms and legs and I'm talking about in the last year
The outfit has just become more cautious and quiet and adverse to publicity

I am only responding to the more coherent points raised.

The Arm did in fact suggest that the Outfit with its partners controlled the entire Chicagoland sex trade.

No offense but your average pimp isn't going to give a crap about Paul Carperelli trying to beat them up. Your average Chinese madame probably wouldn't.

The entire point of the conversation is that without exercising a level of violence similar to what was necessary in the past--when we know they really did control certain things--how do they control it?

But there is really no point in having a conversation with people who still think municipaliiteis with populations totalling more than 60K people are under the Outfit's thumb.

We are not talking about street pimps here, som I guess I stand corrected on the "entire sex trade industry"...I guess I meant all of it that matters
The Chinese madams you are talking about are actually mostly Korean, and in Chicagoland they are either human trafficed themselves, or very much under the thumb of the russians and by extention, the outfit in general, and Elmwood park inn particular. You would be amazed at the revenue those store from "spa" brothals generate.

Huron - Was Mandell's Father one of the burglars who broke into Accardo's home?

Arm - The spas along Lake St. in Elmhurst, Addison, Roselle - are all those plugged into the Outfit?

Ravioli

https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20001115/news/711159999/print/

This goes on all over. U think its exclusive to Chicago?

The Chicago mob controls the locals and joint councils of the teamsters union in Chicago, why do you think Obama went to the doj and tried to have federal oversight of the teamsters ended. Now to me this wouldn't look so bad of the main teamster guy in Chicago pushing this are Coli and his right hand glimco jr
Anybody that's followed the mob knows those names
To head joint council 25 of the teqmsters in Chicago you must be with the Chicago mob
I mean its like Joey Lombardo jr or frank Caruso pushing for federal oversight of the teqmsters to end , it's fucking ridiculous

They also control the 36th ward in Chicago, banks and dileo are there and it was a smooth transisition from the 1st ward with Marcy and Roti.

Pretty disgusting really

Ok thanks for the link Funkster.

Mandell's dad was killed a decade after the retaliation for the Accardo robery.

The Outfit is the most powerful in all lcn, if you consider the fact they are so low key and smart they don't get sent to the joint like all the other ny idiots.

As the Arm said, they are heavily involved in the profitable trafficing stuff.

I don't doubt it.

And I admire the fact that they have never busted for it...

Not even once!

How convenient. Whenever the feds say something you don't agree with or want to be true, just accuse them of lying. Don't get the Tom Arnold comparison but whatever.

Piece of advice, don't hitch your wagon to TheArm's star. The guy is nuts. And I'm not just talking about the claims about his past. Not only does he say there's still a Rockford family in 2014, hell, they're ready to open the books! Despite the FBI saying the Chicago Heights crew is defunct, Arm says otherwise. And never mind there being no cases to support the conclusion, we should just assume the Outfit is heavy into sex trafficking and prostitution in Chicago. Yeah, let's just go with the FBI being a bunch of liars 'cause Arm says so. Hell, even ChiTown thinks he full of it.



True enough.



Strip clubs and porn shops is one thing. But the lack of human trafficking or prostitution cases related to the Outfit is pretty telling.



Teamster cases involving the Outfit in recent years have been few and far between. Maybe the Outfit controls the Justice Department and Chicago FBI too?



By that logic, the Dallas family must be a powerhouse. They haven't had anyone go to prison in decades.

im done posting in chicago threads...its like looney toons

I pretty much stopped long ago. It looked like IVEY was going to stay away from this thread but he just couldn't help himself. He had to jump back in there. I thought he was going to listen to PIZZA about feeding the trolls but he just can't. He needs the last word...ON EVERYTHING...a trait he should work on instead of contantly bickering with every poster, new or old.

"Strip clubs and porn shops is one thing. But the lack of human trafficking or prostitution cases related to the Outfit is pretty telling"

Ummm....the Mandel case WAS about human trafficking or prostitution...Murder conspericy is just more sereous and easier to prove
Again..ASK yourself why the FEDS bumped the ISP and CPD if it was a "simple murder case"

Oh, and Ivy League..As for me being "nuts", I have shreaded, debunked and pulverized your half baked, naive, wikipedia FBI nut hugging ignorance...I have cited case law and scores of examples of FBI systemic misinformation...you have cited ...duhhhhhh

As this thread shows, your credibility is ZERO

No I don't think it's exclusive to Chicago, but Chicago is the subject of this thread.

@TheArm - Did you see the "Zips in Oregon, Il" thread? Would like your perspective - and welcome to the BB.

Absolutly, the Outfit and the Russians. Some of the "owners" themselves are even human traffic victims. There are local women but the majority are from out of state, eastern Europe or Asia

I will check it out...thanks

He is what we used to call a "Buff"
He is facinated by LCN and fancies himself a cross between J Edger Hoover and Al Guart
He reads newspaper articals, web sites and FBI media releases and then transposes that nonsense as the gospal and personal first hand knowledge...becuse as everyone knows, newspapers are never wrong, and Federal law enforcement has never used misinformation as an investigative tool <sarcasm>

+1

He posted to say he was done posting

-1

Ivyleague is a troll. Not the other way around.

Heh welcome to gangsterbb: Where you've got clowns letting You know shit you never asked about.

"Hey guys just wanted to let you know. I won't be posting in this thread anymore". Who asked him??

Frankly, if youre not directly involved, or you did not Come up amongst an LCN community, and you STILL concern yourself with & speculate about LCN matters, youre pathetic.

Well, between the two, I'd rather be a "buff" than an internet fraud.

And for the record, spmob never cared about me having the "last word" until I called him out on his bullshit about claiming to know Joey Merlino was the real boss before it officially came out. But grudges die hard on these boards.



You only say that because I throw inconvenient facts in your face you don't want to deal with.



My guess is that would include you and most other wannabe mob insiders. But that's why I don't speculate to begin with, but rather just go with the verifiable facts.



I won't write off all Chicago threads (though most do tend to degenerate into petty bickering thanks to the Outfit fans) but I am done with this thread unless it has something directly to do with the original topic. I will try to follow some people's advice and quit feeding the trolls.

I think it's ok to be curious and interested. But when there are people who actually know what you are speculating about, and you defned you speculation, frankly it becomes a bit ridiculous.

I've never seen you contribute a shred of concrete fact here. I've never seen you contribute anything interesting or anything of note that would make anyone go "hmm, that's interesting, please go on." People call for you to pipe down & go Away because you cut copy & paste articles from websites. It gets tiring reading things I could just Google & read myself.

Best thing you could do. FWIW- I agree that most of the Chicagoland threads are bullshit and divisive and childish.

"Well, between the two, I'd rather be a "buff" than an internet fraud"

You dont get it... You are both a Buff AND an internet fraud.
The fact that you have been shreaded on virtuaklly every point in this thread and others, makes that pretty clear

Of course not. You're not interested in the verifiable facts. Never have been. What you're here to do is swap bullshit stories and anecdotes with fellow frauds like yourself. You have zero interest in reality because you wish reality was something else.

You simply making stuff up out of thin air doesn't "shred" me. No matter how many times you claim it does. I've shown that the FBI disagrees with your claims on any number of things. All you have is "The FBI lies." Blah, blah, blah.

Curious & interested is one thing. Being from Bumblefuck, Scotland/Montana & being obsessed with LCN is pathetic.

OK, I'm done from this point on.

I made it c lear I am NOT part of the NY vs Chicago pissing match, but just out of curiosity, have you been to Chicago SC?

Huron, this is a totally moronic argument, even by your standards. I'm tired of this stupidity. You just earned yourself a two week vacation from the boards. See if you can get smart in that time. Personally I doubt that it is possible.

We've been over this,,,I don't say the FBI lies...the FBI says it lies (Blah Blah Blah)

You don't provide any verifiable facts that haven't been excruciatingly recited over & over.....and over again.

I suppose the word "troll" was a bit harsh. You're not clever enough to be a troll. You honestly think you're contributing interesting, noteworthy factoids that people want to read.

OK, lets add another two weeks to your vacation.

Many, many times. I went to college near there and my first wife's family were from there. Thanks for your interest in my life. When you get to my pizza preference just ask.

In Chicago Pizza, Geordano's..no contest, but being from NY I will always prefur Rays from the city and upstate hand tossed
I guess my point was I'm not sure how anyone who has spend more then a week in Chicago in the past 10 years could possibly be in the "Outfit is Dead" camp. A drive down North Avenue or an hour is Rosemont should soundly put that to bed
Thats all I'm sayin

Thats best for you there Ivey...Grab your ball and go home. No grudges here...I just don't like how you come off. You can CLAIM to call me and everyone else out... but not everyone falls for your cock cuddling FBI bullshit. Your right and everyone else is ALWAYS wrong. I stand by everything I have said. I don't make outlandish claims on here. How many forums do you need to be suspended from or kicked off of to realize that your not Mob King?? Your just upset that people don't swing from your ball sack like they use to. When you go home tonight and your sitting online by yourself googling...think about it bro.

Ha... in a way, though, both sides are right.

The only stuff that can really be proven is what comes out at court.

Of course there is a lot more going on than that.

But, the fact that there is a lot more going on than that, doesn't mean that every rumor you hear (online or in real life) holds water... and certainly not that everyone who pretends to have the skinny actually does.

Anyway, it's an Internet forum, BSing is basically what it's for.

That being said, when the quality of the BSing drops to a level when the credibility is almost nonexistent, it ceases to become interesting, and that is pretty much what happens here in a cycle whenever there is nothing concrete to talk about.

I will say that I think there are people on this forum who actually either make stuff, up, though, or come very close to literally making things up to sound like they know what they're talking about.

No one bats 1,000. When someone pretends to have inside information on literally every Outfit-related subject under the sun, past or present, it's time to start listening with a boulder of salt.

Agreed 100%

The only thing I would add is as is that there are some of us (me being from philly) who lived in South Philly there whole lives and have been around knock around guys there whole life. I have never named names of who I know or whom I am related to but I do everyone once and a while post something I heard or what I may have known when a subject comes up. I understand that no one has to believe me but i would hope people would realize the difference between the posers and those that are here to learn and provide info they know. I know nothing really about NY or chicago so I am here to learn but I do know a decent amount about PHilly that Googling you would never know. And to just blantantly call out everyone and put them in the same group is really a small way of thinking.

People don't realize how small south philly is and how much people talk and how everyone knows each other. And mafia is a subject that does come up. and I am not saying a made guy telling someone directly. But people know peoples busines here and some of the young guys do brag these days so info leaks wheter a rumor or true. But we shouldn't be put down when we post something like that. And everyone has a bookie...so you will know if they are connected or not. Acccording to Ivey...all bookies in Philly are some what connected. That was another one of our convos. I know this is an Outfit thread...so I am done now. But had to get off my chest especially after Johnnys great post

Speaking only for myself...I am pretty well aquanted with the Outfits connestions via Rockford and their involvement with human trafficing, real estate and the sex industry...beyond that I'm not even sure I could give you an accurate Boss succession off the top of my head.....it really doesnt interest me that much...I do no howecver, that the number of 28 made members is beyond abserd,and that the outfit is still very much alive

i would say that might have been a little more true during scarfo through natale/merlino years when the street tax was in effect and a lot of bookies were kicking up, but from what i understand those days are pretty much done.

Exactly DellaCroce...during Scarfo...you had to. My dads good friend was a Bookie who moved a little meth on the side in the 80s. Scarfo took from him. Merlino only messed with guys he knew he could mess with. Most guys these days, including mine, are independents.

Meth..in Philly...in the 80s
Interesting....to say the least

spmob just earned a week's vacation for this. Nobody says you have to like other members here but you must make an attempt at showing respect to others. If you can't do that, ignore them. If you can't do THAT, post on another message board. That simple!

Most people on this site whether they agree with him or not, would say Ivy contributes the most to the OC section. I am from the Bumblefuck, Scotland/Montana part of the world, but i assure you i'm not obsessed in any way with OC. I'm content just following the stuff that is available to everyone, and Ivy's contribution in that sense is highly appreciated from me at least.

The one thing i notice is that it's always people who disagree with what the FBI have said, that end up in confrontations with Ivy. Usually from Chicago or Detroit, who's posters usually highly disagree with the FBI's current (or most recent) view of them. None of this happens in Philly threads, and the NY posters like Skinny and PB just agree to disagree.

I know you must have been asked this a thousand times, but where does the FBI say they lie? I remember you saying that the FBI went to the Supreme Court for the right to lie? I've only been here sporadically so i must've missed it, but can you post a link were the FBI went to the Supreme Court for the right to lie?

You mean Giordano's? Much better pizza in Chicago than Giordano's. It's good, but nowhere near the best.

Well stated.

Giordano's is crap. Actually try thin at Malnati's and you will be surprised.

There are SO many little local joints that are good. Try Maries on Lawrence Avenue.

Isn't there a theory that the longer an internet thread goes on the probability to a reference to Hitler approaches 1?

Well there should be a theory where the longer an OC thread goes on the probability of a reference to pizza comparison approaches 1.

Sonny's Law.

Can you list your sources? Or should that be "sauces"?

Pretty cheesy, SC.

See what I did there?

Appropriate since today is 3.14 (Pie day).

Not too many members here are going to get that one. But I did. Because I'm smaaht .

You realize it must be a Sicilian pizza. Why? Because pie are squared. Oy.

Stop. Now. That's fuckin awful .

/me chuckles.

You two should go on the road. Martin and Lewis here.

Or should that be Lemon and Matthau

Two things by way of response. Just to keep the record straight.

First, what I took exception to was you saying you and others in South Philly knew Merlino was the boss only after that news was released by law enforcement. As far as I'm aware, you never made any peep of that prior to that info coming out. But after it did, you were like, "Yeah, we knew that all along." Of course, in all honestly, even if you had mentioned it before, I would have likely just given you credit for guessing right.

Second, I've said that most bookmaking operations in the Northeast - especially the big ones - are mob-connected in some way. At least judging by the cases.

Here's a newspaper article about FS. This one has a picture of Mitch Mars. Mars talks about the case and also mentions the 28 mm and 100 associates.

Probably have to cut and paste. These things can be tricky.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=20070928&id=Av1RAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hjQNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5877,3405826

SC what's the deal with the double-standard? You have one guy (Ivy aka Jared) pissing everyone off and talking all this sandbox bullshit. The guys been kicked out of multiple forums already and you continue to allow him to create one sandbox fight after another on every thread about every family.

I see one common denominator here. You gonna ban me if I respond to the bullshit he wrote about me while I was away?

No, I'll just ban you for arguing a moderator's decision in public. Grow the fuck up and get over it. Learn to get along or don't post here.

except that he doesn't piss everyone off, only a small group of folks who always seem to have something in common. people are always going to have different opinions, but people like you for some bizzare reason equate that with personal attacks and respond with these lame attempts at character assasination because in your mind you think that somehow gives you a leg up in the debate. it's deflection pure and simple, the tactic most often used by the intellectually lazy.

Two quick facts just to keep the record straight:

First, my disagreement has been mainly with a handful of posters who, not coincidentally, are from Chicago. That isn't "everyone."

Second, I've been banned from one forum. Not "multiple" ones.

Now moving on...

Seconded.

lol this guy "Five Felonies" what a tough online monicker...better than your other Pogo the Clown BS though. You only come on these Chicago threads to stick up for Jared...why is that? You literally have not contributed one piece of info on the Outfit ever on this forum.

You two want to make something public?

OK. I am REALLY sick and tired of all this Chicago bullshit. All this feeling-that-they-have-something-to-prove bullshit. You're all put on notice that anyone fueling this crap will be banned from the boards.

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

Link to article , where FBI says a month prior to trying unsuccessfully to deny carperelli bail, that carperelli under orders from "Mikey g" solly delaurentis luitenant ordered caparelli to "break the heads and legs of a gambler " and that he reguraly sold cocaine and shook people down for the Cicero mob crew. Also taped telling a crew member to "stay low key, let them think we're dead, that way they say good job and high five and the Feds go home"

http://www.suntimes.com/21804384-761/inside-the-life-of-an-alleged-outfit-extortionist.html

Control of different current teamster locals under coli jr , romanazzi and glimco jr
http://www.suntimes.com/20538198-761/sons-of-rahm-emanuels-top-union-ally-john-coli-also-rise.html

http://www.teamstersjc25.com/about_us.html


Joseph senese son of Dominick senese is the hight paid union boss in America . He makes 650k a year as head of the production workers national union

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/j...labor/?page=all


Obama plotting with coli jr to end federal oversight of the teamsters and 2012 civil Rico suit against coli jr
http://laborunionreport.com/2012/06/21/r...-moves-forward/


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-union-pledge-raises-questions/


Is it a coincidence that of the 4 highest paid union officials in the country that 3 of them are sons of Chicago made guys and the other is a genovese family asociate Harold daggett ?

Also John Matassa jr heads a small transit union local, is a Chicago capo and is also the brother in law of CURRENT genovese capo Danny pagano , who has connections in the labor unions as well and was big with the gas , with the Russians